For sure without Gun Jesus I wouldn't know 95% of your rifles, I always thought after Napoleon you only produced subpar rifles for some reason. I guess its Anglo propaganda + WWII disaster + ignorance. Also Chauchat xD (yes I know the 8mm is not that bad)
@@riseupagainstthenwo9995 yep.. haha... our best weapon where a nimbus mc with a 20mm machine Canon mounted in the sidecar... the French had a equal number of men and machine, but old school top leadership the Germans where just faster and more fearless on pevitin in the French campaign
The French Navy kept the Chassepot as they were not a vital part of their armament and they made their own cartridges using closely supervised sailors with the proper tooling and materials in barracks and on board ship. This meant that their Chassepot cartridges were properly made, boxed and stored. Properly made, the Chassepot cartridge is mildly water resistant. Brass is better but the difference was less for them than the Army. Your Chassepot cartridge is kept in the waterproof pouch. It does not get taken out until the officer gives the order. Hence the lack of a need for a safety mechanism.
Hi Ian! Royal Canadian Navy sailor and fluent bilingual French speaker here. The French word "Marine" just translates to "Navy", not to the American usage of the word (see "Marine Corps"). This means that the rifles are just stamped "Model of 1878 Navy" in English. Without knowing the exact specifics, this leads me to believe that this rifle was intended specifically for use by naval personnel aboard ship, rather than for use ashore by naval infantry.
Hi, this is a complicated story. In 1627, Cardinal Richelieu, in charge of the Navy, created an Navy infantry under the name of "Régiment de la Marine". They would fight aboard or ashore. These Régiments would serve until 1825, when they were handed over to the French Army. They decided that the ship's crew would have to fight by themselves. The "Régiment de la marine" in the Army became "Troupe de Marine" (confusing, isn't it ?) or "Troupe Coloniale". Today they still exist in the Army (Armée de Terre) and are composed of: - Régiment d'Infanterie de Marine (RIMA) - Régiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (RPIMA) - Régiment d'Artillerie de Marine (RAMA). These are all Armée de Terre (Army). But in 1856, they realized that these dedicated troops were missing. So they re-created a Navy Infantry under the name of "Fusilier Marin". Again, they would serve aboard or ashore, especially in the colonies. So this rifle is a "Fusilier Marin" rifle, and could be used from the ship or on the land. The "2d Classe" may be an short version of "Seconde Classe" which is often a rank in the Navy. fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grades_de_la_Marine_fran%C3%A7aise During First World War, a small troop of 6500 Fusiliers Marins stopped the offensive of 50 000 German from October 1914 in the Flandres. They were asked to hold 3 days for re-enforcement but they hold 3 weeks at Dixmude battle. They lost 3700 men, often very young, some barely 16 yo. During WW2, Fusiliers Marins fought at Bir-Hakeim in 1942, in Italy at Naple in 1944 and many other battles with Free French troops until the end of the war. Some Fusiliers Marins followed a Commando training with the British and ultimately participated in Sword Beach assault on June 6th 1944. These were the ancestor of today Commando Marine Special Forces (like British SBS or US Navy Seal).
Exactly, Jo Jo. That's something I have to explain to the Americans almost daily. Marine means both "navy" and "of the sea" (marine wildlife, merchant marine, marine rifleman etc). The French first had "marins fusiliers" (sailors trained in rifle and infantry combat). Given the importance of infantry combat and of their especialization in the confines of ships, their name changed places from "marin fusilier" to "fusilier marin", denoting the greater emphasis on their infantry especialization; which is where the English "marine" as a naval soldier comes from. Their numbers being few, the marines need to be élite units, thus the need for the greater firepower in the Kropatschek of the video. That's why the American marines say "every marine is a rifleman" without knowing the reason. The British formed their Royal Marines and the Americans had their Continental Marines. The US Marines always feared to be ruled out of existence by the army and navy (even after WWII) and assured their existence through a legal loophole where the Corps is a "Deparment of the Navy", with the marine commander being equally represented in front of the minister of the navy and the joint chiefs. Sailors tend to be jealous of marines, as they are too different and remind them of those deaded foot sloggers of the army; so marines tend to be ruled out of existence until the navy feels the need for land projection from the sea (the ship-to-shore movement is the 'raison d'être' of marines). This happened with the French many times, and would take its modern form in 1900, when the administration of the colonies passed from the Ministry of the Navy to the Ministry of War (Army) and the marines garrisoning land forts would pass to the army and be renamed "colonial troops" and the marines garrisoning ships would be kept by the navy with their old title "fusiliers marins", formed in the FORFUSCO force today (Force maritime des fusiliers marins et commandos - FORFUSCO). In the case of the Troupes Coloniales, they were renamed in 1957 when the French dropped the "colony" designation for its overseas possessions and became the Infanterie de Marine of the Troupes the Marine (Infantry of the Navy/ Troops of the Navy).
I've learned something from this thread in both military designation and linguistics. Thanks! And thank you for your service, naval personnel don't get the respect they deserve!
Keenan McBreen I have the Portuguese Army version. They are not expensive. The ammo OTOH, is obsolete and has to be converted from an obsolete Winchester case! The face has to be beveled, it’s not flat!
Perhaps they thought corrosion was inevitable, and that if they were in the white they would not have to be refinished after polishing rust off? I'm curious myself.
Maybe they covered the rifles in oil to avoid rust (just like you would with a sword) and the finish could react with the oil or something? Or maybe the white would make it easier to see spots not covered in oil.
Having them in the white makes it easier to inspect for rust, as it can't hide in the blueing. Also, the Naval Infantry force aboard has plenty of time to keep them polished. It keeps troops occupied and out of the way of the actual operation of the vessel.
Been there myself, working two jobs and trying to do college in between, but its worth it. Good luck. btw sometimes it feels like the more you study, the more you forget, come test time it all clicks into place, I think our brains mess with us LOL.
Cool, over the years, I have never really gotten into the French arms, I guess I should pay more attention since there is a bit of French Blood flowing through these aging veins. My Great Grandfather on mom's side was a Dane, who ran a stable. He fell in love with a French Aristocrat who used his facility and they were wed. When Germany took over his part of Denmark, prior to WWI, his son, my grandfather was drafted into the Kaiser's Army and placed in charge of the stables near the Coast. He didn't much care for the German's or the Kaiser for that matter, and his cousin had emigrated to America a few years before, they kept in contact, so when he wrote of his distaste for his current situation, his cousin sent him enough funds to purchase passage on a ship to America. So, according to his telling he "Stole the fastest damn horse in the kaiser's stable and rode him to the coast where he and the horse boarded a steam ship to America. Once he arrived and went through Ellis Island, he rode that same horse all the way from New York to North Dakota, where he stayed with his cousin for a year to work off the loan, a time when he met and wed my Grandmother, who was of French-Canadian extraction, her father a direct descendant of the first 16 to settle Canada in the late 1600's according to our family tree. So I do have a lot of French blood, mixed with my father's pure Swedish blood. So I guess when I get pissed I don't know if I should drop my gun and run, or pick up a battleaxe and go a viking!
That's an epic family story! :) As for what to do, I think the thing to do when pissed would be to mount the battleaxe on the gun as a bayonet, and go Viking! :) Just listen to this old song for what I mean: ua-cam.com/video/uPqG6IA4Zrk/v-deo.html
Want you to know how much I enjoy your videos! I love learning the history of things but HATE doing the research, you give me the best of both worlds! Thanks for sharing your love of firearms history with us!
@@vrisbrianm4720 I don't know if they did for rifle, but they sure did for sword. My great grandfather sword as "officier d'infanterie" on it. Exemple: medias.expertissim.com/media/cache/media_zoom/uploads/object/2013/12/23/12151353/2013121202_sabre_3.jpg But yeah, as Saibot Saibot said, it could also be a label for grade too.
On est d'accord que ça ressemble plus a un 2 qu'a un Q en cursives. Mais du coup, ça sous entendrai qu'un autre grade aurait un autre fusil ? ou avec un autre marquage, mais pourquoi du coup ? Bonnes questions.... (EN) We agree that it looks more like a 2 than a Q in cursives. But would that imply that another rank would have another rifle? or with another mark, but why? Good questions ....
@@ProjectoD77 I think "officier d'infanterie" was just part of the designation of the sword model rather than a rank (It just meant infantry officer). Can't read French, so not sure.. But anyway, thanks for sharing. 👍 fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_mod%C3%A8le_1882_d%27officier_d%27infanterie
Ive been in heaven this week. Ive wanted to see the Chaspot, gras, and Kropatchek since he mentioned them in the Lebel video and now they are here so close together
I love Ian's nonchalant plugs for his book. "I'm finally doing something for me. Buy it.". If I had the spare cash for the gun books I want, I'd be buying one. Hell, I'd be patronizing Forgotten Weapons and InRange both. One of these days...
Given that paper cartridges were lubricated with grease or wax: New Chasepot rounds, assembled aboard ship or in garrison armouries, were probably not significantly less reliable, or water resistant, than early Gras rounds; made in, and shipped from, France. Also the components needed to make Chasepot rounds (black powder, lead paper, and percussion caps) would be available overseas and could be assembled manually, without complex machinery.
The austro-hungarians had some great weapons designers, who unfortunately were born in a country that was quite resistant to modernisation. Like Ferdinand Mannlicher, who patented a lot more advanced weapons than he could actually manufacture, Adolf Odkolek von Something who invented the basic principle of the Hotchkiss-MG, but had to sell it to an american, or Gunther Burstyn, who invented a tank years before WW1, but some decision maker in the austrian military thought: "A Land-Torpedoboat that can cross trenches? nah, common on, were's never going to need that..."
If I had to make a guess about the "2e classe" marking, I'd see three possibilities : a reference to the quality of the gun (good enough to pass but not accurate enough to be marksman material for instance), a reference to the user (enlisted troop's gun instead of officer's gun), or, finally, (and that's my educated guess), a reference to this gun being from a new batch of a certain model, or a 2nd pattern of the same model to warn armourers of potential incompatibilities with parts from the original order. I sway toward the latter explanation. In my opinion the initial order was extended at some point and the latest guns were marked to signal this.
Marine means both "navy" and "of the sea" (marine wildlife, merchant marine, marine rifleman etc). The French first had "marins fusiliers" (sailors trained in rifle and infantry combat). Given the importance of infantry combat and of their especialization in the confines of ships, their name changed places from "marin fusilier" to "fusilier marin", denoting the greater emphasis on their infantry especialization; which is where the English "marine" as a naval soldier comes from. Their numbers being few, the marines need to be élite units, thus the need for the greater firepower in the Kropatschek of the video. That's why the American marines say "every marine is a rifleman" without knowing the reason. The British formed their Royal Marines and the Americans had their Continental Marines. The US Marines always feared to be ruled out of existence by the army and navy (even after WWII) and assured their existence through a legal loophole where the Corps is a "Deparment of the Navy", with the marine commander being equally represented in front of the minister of the navy and the joint chiefs. Sailors tend to be jealous of marines, as they are too different and remind them of those deaded foot sloggers of the army; so marines tend to be ruled out of existence until the navy feels the need for land projection from the sea (the ship-to-shore movement is the 'raison d'être' of marines). This happened with the French many times, and would take its modern form in 1900, when the administration of the colonies passed from the Ministry of the Navy to the Ministry of War (Army) and the marines garrisoning land forts would pass to the army and be renamed "colonial troops" and the marines garrisoning ships would be kept by the navy with their old title "fusiliers marins", formed in the FORFUSCO force today (Force maritime des fusiliers marins et commandos - FORFUSCO). In the case of the Troupes Coloniales, they were renamed in 1957 when the French dropped the "colony" designation for its overseas possessions and became the Infanterie de Marine of the Troupes the Marine (Infantry of the Navy/ Troops of the Navy).
Question: Why are naval small arms often not blued? I have seen this with pistols as well, I would have thought it counterintuitive as doesn't bluing harden the metal against corrosion, which would be an issue at sea?
Hi guys, forgive the ignorance. Ian states that they were specifically ordered polished and in the white and that this is not 'atypical' of naval small arms at the time. Why is that? Surely one would want corrosion resistance on the metal. Is there something I'm missing? Did he say 'typical' instead of 'atypical'? Thanks! Alex
My best guess is that they covered their rifles with oil to avoid corrosion and not having a finish would make it easier to spot zones not covered with the oil. This is used a lot with carbon steel swords, which rust very easily, but the oil keeps the steel from coming in contact with the air or even your fingers, which have an oil that accelerates corrosion.
Alex Pettus Agathocleous finely polished metal is relatively rust resistant, and any rust spots can be buffed out without causing noticeable shiny spots on an otherwise dark finish.
That's a handsome rifle. I thought it had a nickel finish at first, but now I'm just confused. Why would the navy of all things have rifles with no finish to keep them from rusting?
No evidence if it applies here, but 2d classe (second class) is a French military grade. A 2d classe is basically the little soldier without lot of time spent in the service yet. Maybe that's the reason of the marking on top, without any certainty
@@Lidoott Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro Hungarian Empire at that time. So anything Czech would be labelled as Austrian back then. And Czechs always made good weapons.
Can you show a Type 22 Murata in one of your next episodes? I haven't seen one yet. I'm not sure if the Japanese already used smokeless powder for the Type 22 or still compressed blackpowder since it was in 8mm Murata. It is said that some were smuggled to the Philippines during the Philippine Insurrection 1899-1902 along with older single-shot blackpowder Muratas, and were highly-prized by the Insurrectos due to their shorter length and magazine capacity along with Spanish Mausers.
Seems like Ian thinks all the navy's forces were fusiliers de marine, but there were also troupe the marine that regularly fought campaigns on land, most famously in the colonies as they were responsible for defence of the colonial empire
Man... every time I see or hear "Kropatschek", it cracks me up. It's not your fault, but it's a german bastardization of a czech name, "Kropáček" (a common practice in the Austrian empire, understandably), and it just looks and sounds funny to a Czech.
Yes. French naval and colonial forces had the instructions, tools and training to make their own Chasepot cartridges. And the components could usually be sourced overseas; so they weren't dependant on shipping metallic cartridges from France. And it kept the Fusilieurs marin and colonial troops busy, so they wouldn't get up to mischief when bored.
@@ForgottenWeapons I believe the navy-museum in Horten Norway has one. Take a trip to Norway, and you can do videos on all sorts of Krags, Jarmans and Kammerladers. If you want to do some shooting wile here, you can borrow my 1894 :)
I believe there’s one on display at a gun store in Førde (Våpenloftet). The shop owner is a collector and displays some of his stuff there. Also, there is or was another one displayed as part of a large collection in the officer’s mess at Terningmoen army camp. That’s where a number of Norwegian weapons trials have been held, so they have several trials rifles on display including a Norwegian trials AR-10 and some of its competitors. Couple of BM-59 variants and an early G3 among other stuff. Norwegian-issue and captured enemy guns from the flintlock era up to late cold war era. I recall a ridiculous Polish (?) anti tank rifle that was basically a Mauser T-gewehr necked down to shoot an 8mm bullet at astronomical velocity; that one must have been a real barrel burner. Might be worth calling up Terningmoen and asking for whoever is in charge of the gun collection these days.
We appreciate the time you dedicate to our guns
Love from France
For sure without Gun Jesus I wouldn't know 95% of your rifles, I always thought after Napoleon you only produced subpar rifles for some reason. I guess its Anglo propaganda + WWII disaster + ignorance. Also Chauchat xD (yes I know the 8mm is not that bad)
@@Faetter-Blobs-Filmbiks Isn't that a Danish name, the guys that surrendered to Germany in TWO HOURS
@@riseupagainstthenwo9995 yep.. haha... our best weapon where a nimbus mc with a 20mm machine Canon mounted in the sidecar... the French had a equal number of men and machine, but old school top leadership
the Germans where just faster and more fearless on pevitin in the French campaign
@@Faetter-Blobs-Filmbiks you guys gave the surrender act in exchange for the declaration of war and are saying that AHAH
but can we just move on now? :)
The mix of dark wood and light steel works really well.
The French Navy kept the Chassepot as they were not a vital part of their armament and they made their own cartridges using closely supervised sailors with the proper tooling and materials in barracks and on board ship. This meant that their Chassepot cartridges were properly made, boxed and stored. Properly made, the Chassepot cartridge is mildly water resistant. Brass is better but the difference was less for them than the Army. Your Chassepot cartridge is kept in the waterproof pouch. It does not get taken out until the officer gives the order. Hence the lack of a need for a safety mechanism.
You could say they had a boat load ammo
I SEA what you did there
Ayyyyy 👉😎👉
-these jokes are fishy-
@@AkiSan0 ive LURED you right into my trap.
Litteral bottom has been meet on these jokes folks. Either you start ascending or this is gonna become a saubnautic issue.
This is a very beautiful rifle.
Agreed, the polished steel with that dark stock really gives it a neat clean look.
Si...
Your a very beautiful rifle
it's remarkably futuristic looking for 1878
A lot of these old rifles are very aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Thank you for showing this one -- and it's history!
i agree
This rifle looks really gorgeous, pristine condition.
Hi Ian! Royal Canadian Navy sailor and fluent bilingual French speaker here. The French word "Marine" just translates to "Navy", not to the American usage of the word (see "Marine Corps"). This means that the rifles are just stamped "Model of 1878 Navy" in English.
Without knowing the exact specifics, this leads me to believe that this rifle was intended specifically for use by naval personnel aboard ship, rather than for use ashore by naval infantry.
Hi, this is a complicated story.
In 1627, Cardinal Richelieu, in charge of the Navy, created an Navy infantry under the name of "Régiment de la Marine".
They would fight aboard or ashore. These Régiments would serve until 1825, when they were handed over to the French Army.
They decided that the ship's crew would have to fight by themselves.
The "Régiment de la marine" in the Army became "Troupe de Marine" (confusing, isn't it ?) or "Troupe Coloniale".
Today they still exist in the Army (Armée de Terre) and are composed of:
- Régiment d'Infanterie de Marine (RIMA)
- Régiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (RPIMA)
- Régiment d'Artillerie de Marine (RAMA).
These are all Armée de Terre (Army).
But in 1856, they realized that these dedicated troops were missing.
So they re-created a Navy Infantry under the name of "Fusilier Marin".
Again, they would serve aboard or ashore, especially in the colonies.
So this rifle is a "Fusilier Marin" rifle, and could be used from the ship or on the land.
The "2d Classe" may be an short version of "Seconde Classe" which is often a rank in the Navy.
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grades_de_la_Marine_fran%C3%A7aise
During First World War, a small troop of 6500 Fusiliers Marins stopped the offensive of 50 000 German from October 1914 in the Flandres. They were asked to hold 3 days for re-enforcement but they hold 3 weeks at Dixmude battle.
They lost 3700 men, often very young, some barely 16 yo.
During WW2, Fusiliers Marins fought at Bir-Hakeim in 1942, in Italy at Naple in 1944 and many other battles with Free French troops until the end of the war.
Some Fusiliers Marins followed a Commando training with the British and ultimately participated in Sword Beach assault on June 6th 1944.
These were the ancestor of today Commando Marine Special Forces (like British SBS or US Navy Seal).
Exactly, Jo Jo. That's something I have to explain to the Americans almost daily.
Marine means both "navy" and "of the sea" (marine wildlife, merchant marine, marine rifleman etc). The French first had "marins fusiliers" (sailors trained in rifle and infantry combat). Given the importance of infantry combat and of their especialization in the confines of ships, their name changed places from "marin fusilier" to "fusilier marin", denoting the greater emphasis on their infantry especialization; which is where the English "marine" as a naval soldier comes from. Their numbers being few, the marines need to be élite units, thus the need for the greater firepower in the Kropatschek of the video.
That's why the American marines say "every marine is a rifleman" without knowing the reason. The British formed their Royal Marines and the Americans had their Continental Marines. The US Marines always feared to be ruled out of existence by the army and navy (even after WWII) and assured their existence through a legal loophole where the Corps is a "Deparment of the Navy", with the marine commander being equally represented in front of the minister of the navy and the joint chiefs.
Sailors tend to be jealous of marines, as they are too different and remind them of those deaded foot sloggers of the army; so marines tend to be ruled out of existence until the navy feels the need for land projection from the sea (the ship-to-shore movement is the 'raison d'être' of marines). This happened with the French many times, and would take its modern form in 1900, when the administration of the colonies passed from the Ministry of the Navy to the Ministry of War (Army) and the marines garrisoning land forts would pass to the army and be renamed "colonial troops" and the marines garrisoning ships would be kept by the navy with their old title "fusiliers marins", formed in the FORFUSCO force today (Force maritime des fusiliers marins et commandos - FORFUSCO). In the case of the Troupes Coloniales, they were renamed in 1957 when the French dropped the "colony" designation for its overseas possessions and became the Infanterie de Marine of the Troupes the Marine (Infantry of the Navy/ Troops of the Navy).
I've learned something from this thread in both military designation and linguistics. Thanks!
And thank you for your service, naval personnel don't get the respect they deserve!
Hey! It's _Month of France!_ This Month of France, remember: Books are for sale! Enjoy France!
I read this in Jason Steele's voice
All the evolutionary steps are cool! This gun makes me want to have a repeating metallic cartridge black powder rifle!
Keenan McBreen I have the Portuguese Army version. They are not expensive. The ammo OTOH, is obsolete and has to be converted from an obsolete Winchester case! The face has to be beveled, it’s not flat!
Could you do a video or a explainer series on finishes- white, blued, etc- along the lines of the action ones?
Late af sorry but “blue” steel typically has some extra elements added and is more durable
This rifle look cool, black and silver, it make me think of the rifle in nausicaa of the valley of the wind if someone remember that movie.
Have a great day everyone!
Why would the Navy require them in the white? Wouldn't treatment of the metal make it more resistant to corrosion aboard a ship?
Perhaps they thought corrosion was inevitable, and that if they were in the white they would not have to be refinished after polishing rust off? I'm curious myself.
Maybe they covered the rifles in oil to avoid rust (just like you would with a sword) and the finish could react with the oil or something? Or maybe the white would make it easier to see spots not covered in oil.
Having them in the white makes it easier to inspect for rust, as it can't hide in the blueing. Also, the Naval Infantry force aboard has plenty of time to keep them polished. It keeps troops occupied and out of the way of the actual operation of the vessel.
It was pretty.
Maybe by requiring religious cleaning to prevent rust, you therefore *require* religious maintenance? Enforcing standards through rust?
Maybe because they were mostly used for ceremony ?
i admit in mainly clicked to hear Ian say "Kropatschek"!
He actually nailed it :D
I'm only this early because it's finals week and I'm dying inside
Good luck my dudes.
Trust me when you’re working you’d wish you can go home before 5
Oh hey, same here! Good luck man
Been there myself, working two jobs and trying to do college in between, but its worth it.
Good luck.
btw sometimes it feels like the more you study, the more you forget, come test time it all clicks into place, I think our brains mess with us LOL.
Ian, you are absolutely killing it! Thanks for the video! Love from Switzerland!
I doubt many folk today can really appreciate quite how modern something like this is.
Pretty darn advanced for the time. Remember this was the era of Martini-Henry and Remington Rolling Block.
YES! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I've wanted to see a demo on this weapon for so long. They are so hard to find or get a hands on examination!
Cool, over the years, I have never really gotten into the French arms, I guess I should pay more attention since there is a bit of French Blood flowing through these aging veins. My Great Grandfather on mom's side was a Dane, who ran a stable. He fell in love with a French Aristocrat who used his facility and they were wed. When Germany took over his part of Denmark, prior to WWI, his son, my grandfather was drafted into the Kaiser's Army and placed in charge of the stables near the Coast. He didn't much care for the German's or the Kaiser for that matter, and his cousin had emigrated to America a few years before, they kept in contact, so when he wrote of his distaste for his current situation, his cousin sent him enough funds to purchase passage on a ship to America. So, according to his telling he "Stole the fastest damn horse in the kaiser's stable and rode him to the coast where he and the horse boarded a steam ship to America. Once he arrived and went through Ellis Island, he rode that same horse all the way from New York to North Dakota, where he stayed with his cousin for a year to work off the loan, a time when he met and wed my Grandmother, who was of French-Canadian extraction, her father a direct descendant of the first 16 to settle Canada in the late 1600's according to our family tree. So I do have a lot of French blood, mixed with my father's pure Swedish blood. So I guess when I get pissed I don't know if I should drop my gun and run, or pick up a battleaxe and go a viking!
That's an epic family story! :) As for what to do, I think the thing to do when pissed would be to mount the battleaxe on the gun as a bayonet, and go Viking! :) Just listen to this old song for what I mean: ua-cam.com/video/uPqG6IA4Zrk/v-deo.html
I was waiting this video for so long!!
This is a gorgeous firearm. Another one to be looking for to add to my collection.
Want you to know how much I enjoy your videos! I love learning the history of things but HATE doing the research, you give me the best of both worlds! Thanks for sharing your love of firearms history with us!
Holy cow that rifle is beautiful
I love the little pineapple on the magazine cut-off. Probably done on a machine doing two dozen at a time, off a hand-made wood pattern.
9:00 are you sure the marking is not "2e classe" (2nd class), which is a rank in the French Marine
Or it might refer to the rifle being some sort of second grade in quality/accuracy.
I doubt they would label a military rank on an issued rifle
@@vrisbrianm4720 I don't know if they did for rifle, but they sure did for sword. My great grandfather sword as "officier d'infanterie" on it.
Exemple:
medias.expertissim.com/media/cache/media_zoom/uploads/object/2013/12/23/12151353/2013121202_sabre_3.jpg
But yeah, as
Saibot Saibot said, it could also be a label for grade too.
On est d'accord que ça ressemble plus a un 2 qu'a un Q en cursives.
Mais du coup, ça sous entendrai qu'un autre grade aurait un autre fusil ? ou avec un autre marquage, mais pourquoi du coup ? Bonnes questions....
(EN) We agree that it looks more like a 2 than a Q in cursives.
But would that imply that another rank would have another rifle? or with another mark, but why? Good questions ....
@@ProjectoD77 I think "officier d'infanterie" was just part of the designation of the sword model rather than a rank (It just meant infantry officer). Can't read French, so not sure.. But anyway, thanks for sharing. 👍
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_mod%C3%A8le_1882_d%27officier_d%27infanterie
Ive been in heaven this week. Ive wanted to see the Chaspot, gras, and Kropatchek since he mentioned them in the Lebel video and now they are here so close together
At 4:28 your first pronunciation of Kropatschek is spott on. Same goes for 3:27 sounds exactly like I as an Austrian would pronounce it.
Thanks!
Nice piece of history.
Thank you , Ian .
Gorgeous rifle
*_Honhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhonhon 🇫🇷_*
Bonjour! Honhonhon
Good thing they don't really laugh like that, it's kind of scary.
Beautiful gun.
I waited a longgggg time for this video. This is my holy grail gun.
I love Ian's nonchalant plugs for his book. "I'm finally doing something for me. Buy it.". If I had the spare cash for the gun books I want, I'd be buying one. Hell, I'd be patronizing Forgotten Weapons and InRange both. One of these days...
Now..that's a beauty
Sign preorders and let people know , love your stuff
Given that paper cartridges were lubricated with grease or wax: New Chasepot rounds, assembled aboard ship or in garrison armouries, were probably not significantly less reliable, or water resistant, than early Gras rounds; made in, and shipped from, France.
Also the components needed to make Chasepot rounds (black powder, lead paper, and percussion caps) would be available overseas and could be assembled manually, without complex machinery.
Congrats for your next one hundred thousand subs, Ian. Onwards and upwards to 1.3 million.
The manufacturer's markings on these mid-1800s French rifles are just pretty. So much more character than today's plain fonts.
What a beautiful old rifle..
The austro-hungarians had some great weapons designers, who unfortunately were born in a country that was quite resistant to modernisation. Like Ferdinand Mannlicher, who patented a lot more advanced weapons than he could actually manufacture, Adolf Odkolek von Something who invented the basic principle of the Hotchkiss-MG, but had to sell it to an american, or Gunther Burstyn, who invented a tank years before WW1, but some decision maker in the austrian military thought: "A Land-Torpedoboat that can cross trenches? nah, common on, were's never going to need that..."
If I had to make a guess about the "2e classe" marking, I'd see three possibilities : a reference to the quality of the gun (good enough to pass but not accurate enough to be marksman material for instance), a reference to the user (enlisted troop's gun instead of officer's gun), or, finally, (and that's my educated guess), a reference to this gun being from a new batch of a certain model, or a 2nd pattern of the same model to warn armourers of potential incompatibilities with parts from the original order. I sway toward the latter explanation. In my opinion the initial order was extended at some point and the latest guns were marked to signal this.
Nice looking rifle. Thanks Ian :)
I remember seeing this weapon a lot in the movie "Legionnaire" with Jean Claude Van Damme.
Why am I still here and not over there because I never leave the video until you say thanks for watching
9:55 As soon as I saw that lifter I thought of the Lebel
The first thing I thought of was a pump action shotgun. That style of lifter is basically what is used today by Mossberg and Remington.
I'm a tad confused why the navy would want their rifles in the white. Seems like a recipe for a rusted mess. That aside this example looks very nice.
Well mostly since the navy in france case barely saw any proper action. And generally these where only used in Tonkin area.
Idle hands aboard a ship are prone to causing mischief. Give the marines a rifle that needs constant cleaning and you've solved that problem ! 😉
Sorry but the replies are not that convincing. There must be a technical or at least quasi technical explanation.
Perhaps their duties were largely ceremonial.
you were in 1878man
The french navy just doen't trust blueing , it's easier to clean a polished steel
Great rifle, but i gotta say this: That book cover is gorgeous!
Thanks!
I really like these.
I have got a bayonet marked « usine de Steyr » and not Manufacture de Steyr, did this « usine » marking also exist on rifles ?
Oh my..I need it
Get into the video, up-vote, watch. Never fails.
Marine means both "navy" and "of the sea" (marine wildlife, merchant marine, marine rifleman etc). The French first had "marins fusiliers" (sailors trained in rifle and infantry combat). Given the importance of infantry combat and of their especialization in the confines of ships, their name changed places from "marin fusilier" to "fusilier marin", denoting the greater emphasis on their infantry especialization; which is where the English "marine" as a naval soldier comes from. Their numbers being few, the marines need to be élite units, thus the need for the greater firepower in the Kropatschek of the video.
That's why the American marines say "every marine is a rifleman" without knowing the reason. The British formed their Royal Marines and the Americans had their Continental Marines. The US Marines always feared to be ruled out of existence by the army and navy (even after WWII) and assured their existence through a legal loophole where the Corps is a "Deparment of the Navy", with the marine commander being equally represented in front of the minister of the navy and the joint chiefs.
Sailors tend to be jealous of marines, as they are too different and remind them of those deaded foot sloggers of the army; so marines tend to be ruled out of existence until the navy feels the need for land projection from the sea (the ship-to-shore movement is the 'raison d'être' of marines). This happened with the French many times, and would take its modern form in 1900, when the administration of the colonies passed from the Ministry of the Navy to the Ministry of War (Army) and the marines garrisoning land forts would pass to the army and be renamed "colonial troops" and the marines garrisoning ships would be kept by the navy with their old title "fusiliers marins", formed in the FORFUSCO force today (Force maritime des fusiliers marins et commandos - FORFUSCO). In the case of the Troupes Coloniales, they were renamed in 1957 when the French dropped the "colony" designation for its overseas possessions and became the Infanterie de Marine of the Troupes the Marine (Infantry of the Navy/ Troops of the Navy).
If Kropotkin had a rifle...
very interesting , never knew that France ever used the Kropetchek !
Came from the Ethiopian version video, missed this one the first time around.
Great and informative video...and with an ending that reminded me of post-credits end of the Ferris Bueller movie!
I like to think of magazine cut offs as old time fun switches. C’est cowabunga!
Question: Why are naval small arms often not blued? I have seen this with pistols as well, I would have thought it counterintuitive as doesn't bluing harden the metal against corrosion, which would be an issue at sea?
If I had the money. ..
My god what a beautifle rifle.
Oooooooh, shiny.
Great looking book I’m going to order one for the coffee table
I have wet dreams about owning a Murata, this is close enough!
Hi guys, forgive the ignorance. Ian states that they were specifically ordered polished and in the white and that this is not 'atypical' of naval small arms at the time. Why is that? Surely one would want corrosion resistance on the metal. Is there something I'm missing? Did he say 'typical' instead of 'atypical'?
Thanks!
Alex
This confused me as well
My best guess is that they covered their rifles with oil to avoid corrosion and not having a finish would make it easier to spot zones not covered with the oil.
This is used a lot with carbon steel swords, which rust very easily, but the oil keeps the steel from coming in contact with the air or even your fingers, which have an oil that accelerates corrosion.
Alex Pettus Agathocleous During long cruises on a warship, you have time to polish your weapons....
Alex Pettus Agathocleous finely polished metal is relatively rust resistant, and any rust spots can be buffed out without causing noticeable shiny spots on an otherwise dark finish.
Very nice. This is a difficult rifle to find for Steyr collectors.
hello congratulations for the video I would like to ask you which rifle model 1878 in which war, on which occasion it was mainly used? 🇮🇹
That's a handsome rifle. I thought it had a nickel finish at first, but now I'm just confused. Why would the navy of all things have rifles with no finish to keep them from rusting?
I’d say that Ian is pretty FAMAS for his UA-cam channel and book! 🤣🤣🤣
No evidence if it applies here, but 2d classe (second class) is a French military grade. A 2d classe is basically the little soldier without lot of time spent in the service yet. Maybe that's the reason of the marking on top, without any certainty
$300k stretch goal reached. 👍👍👍
9:22 it's "2e classe" = deuxième classe = second class
"Thats a very german sounding gun of you france"
Czech presumably ...
Austrian, born in Poland with Czech sounding name (Kropáček)? I would like to see that... ;)
@@Lidoott Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro Hungarian Empire at that time. So anything Czech would be labelled as Austrian back then.
And Czechs always made good weapons.
saludos desde Perú
Ian, can we get videos on Gebauer and Scotti? Please?
One day I will have a 1878 Kropatschek in my collection.
it would be interesting to see what the cartiges looked like as well
MMM i don't know, the French cocktail recipes put it over the edge for me.
Can you show a Type 22 Murata in one of your next episodes? I haven't seen one yet. I'm not sure if the Japanese already used smokeless powder for the Type 22 or still compressed blackpowder since it was in 8mm Murata. It is said that some were smuggled to the Philippines during the Philippine Insurrection 1899-1902 along with older single-shot blackpowder Muratas, and were highly-prized by the Insurrectos due to their shorter length and magazine capacity along with Spanish Mausers.
You need to start showing the cartridge you never show even a picture that would separate you from all the others
Hey Ian, I was wondering if you could cover the history of MG belts, from the metallic strips to the disintegrating links. I would love to see it!
As far as i know, the German Navy used Dreyse rifles up to 1892.
Hey Ian, love the videos. Quick question, are these recent French rifles from your personal collection?
Can you still find or make cartridges for this?
New measurement of quantity invented: Donkey loads. I like that. I will be using it henceforth.
What's the conversation ratio to sh*tload (both metric and imperial)?
Seems like Ian thinks all the navy's forces were fusiliers de marine, but there were also troupe the marine that regularly fought campaigns on land, most famously in the colonies as they were responsible for defence of the colonial empire
Surely "2nd class" must be a French service mark (e.g. for obsolete/ reserve/ drill, etc rifles) and not a manufacturer's mark?
Would be "2em" or "2m" then I suspect
wtel In French, the right spelling is 2e. I think that is the marking on the rifle.
@@Giloup92 I knew it was something like that, but it looks like "2d" for the marking
wtel Hard to see
Ther is a French traduction of your book ?
Hi Ian, I’ve just seen you’ve got pre-orders for 1200+ signed editions of your book. I think you’d better get a stamp made 😂😂
Kickstarter already at 290 thousand dollars of the 25 thousand dollar goal lmao. People want that book.
I hope Ian uses excess funds to buy ridiculous and rare firearms
@@polygondwanaland8390 I really hope he gets a chance to write more books
Why shipping of the book cost 60$ ? That is a lot...
can u pliz make a vedio on assemble and disassemble of 97D (falling block)rifle......
What type of wood is that stock? Looks unusual! :o
Man... every time I see or hear "Kropatschek", it cracks me up. It's not your fault, but it's a german bastardization of a czech name, "Kropáček" (a common practice in the Austrian empire, understandably), and it just looks and sounds funny to a Czech.
What a sexy gun
I wonder if the French Navy Had the gear to reload empty cartridges? Might be a question for your Pals from Switzerland....
Yes. French naval and colonial forces had the instructions, tools and training to make their own Chasepot cartridges. And the components could usually be sourced overseas; so they weren't dependant on shipping metallic cartridges from France.
And it kept the Fusilieurs marin and colonial troops busy, so they wouldn't get up to mischief when bored.
Make a video on the Krag-Petersson! The gun everyone has heard of, but no-one has seen... At least that's what Norwegian collectors call it.
When I find one, I will...
@@ForgottenWeapons I believe the navy-museum in Horten Norway has one. Take a trip to Norway, and you can do videos on all sorts of Krags, Jarmans and Kammerladers. If you want to do some shooting wile here, you can borrow my 1894 :)
That is something i would love to see
I believe there’s one on display at a gun store in Førde (Våpenloftet). The shop owner is a collector and displays some of his stuff there.
Also, there is or was another one displayed as part of a large collection in the officer’s mess at Terningmoen army camp. That’s where a number of Norwegian weapons trials have been held, so they have several trials rifles on display including a Norwegian trials AR-10 and some of its competitors. Couple of BM-59 variants and an early G3 among other stuff. Norwegian-issue and captured enemy guns from the flintlock era up to late cold war era. I recall a ridiculous Polish (?) anti tank rifle that was basically a Mauser T-gewehr necked down to shoot an 8mm bullet at astronomical velocity; that one must have been a real barrel burner. Might be worth calling up Terningmoen and asking for whoever is in charge of the gun collection these days.