How Brazil Beat the Abrams, the Osório | Cursed by Design

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  • Опубліковано 17 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 3,9 тис.

  • @ConeOfArc
    @ConeOfArc  3 роки тому +413

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    • @boogiebomber2191
      @boogiebomber2191 3 роки тому +5

      As long you don't get sponsored by Raid it's all fine

    • @edgarsouzapereira3884
      @edgarsouzapereira3884 3 роки тому +1

      Eu sou brasileiro.

    • @tapaspanigrahi3331
      @tapaspanigrahi3331 3 роки тому +2

      Don't stop this series

    • @Satanperkele
      @Satanperkele 3 роки тому

      Can' lite though, not as if ther product is revolutionising but if it helps you pay the bills

    • @lucasboaventura100
      @lucasboaventura100 3 роки тому +4

      There's more cursed by design brazilian tanks, looks at x1a2 carcará, an m3 stuart with 90mm canon, bernardini's tamoyo series of light tanks based on the m-41 walker bulldogs, including the m-41C caxias version with a 90mm canon (its the 75mm open by brazilian enginers and loosing this bullet exit velocity), also the first versions of EE-9 Cascavel its a modified M-8 Greyhound, the cursed by design ee-17 and ee-18 sucuri tank hunters, the ee-3 jararaca its a planned explorers platoon vehicle, buts this idea dont exactly work, and the charrua personal carrier sad story, like the osorio

  • @zillthrill
    @zillthrill 3 роки тому +1279

    I'm Brazilian and live in Brazil, trust me when I say this, almost everything here is cursed by political design.

    • @vincentlee7359
      @vincentlee7359 2 роки тому +19

      Even your women and children too?

    • @kamonek3825
      @kamonek3825 2 роки тому +45

      @@vincentlee7359 not "everything"

    • @vincentlee7359
      @vincentlee7359 2 роки тому +24

      @@kamonek3825 ah so just the women

    • @kamonek3825
      @kamonek3825 2 роки тому +8

      @@vincentlee7359 nop

    • @lz.mirandix6688
      @lz.mirandix6688 2 роки тому

      @@vincentlee7359 no, but your mother for sure

  • @priniz
    @priniz 3 роки тому +2514

    "Did you defeated the Abrams?"
    Engesa: ...Yes.
    "What did it cost?"
    Engesa: My company

    • @Dianasaurthemelonlord7777
      @Dianasaurthemelonlord7777 3 роки тому +32

      It still worked, like the K-2 black panther

    • @eduardo.a.pinheiro
      @eduardo.a.pinheiro 3 роки тому +63

      Very sad moment

    • @Dianasaurthemelonlord7777
      @Dianasaurthemelonlord7777 3 роки тому +31

      @Joe Blowe the point of armor is IF you get hit it decreases the chance of destruction/Penetration remember the tank was only a prototype most likely the creators would have addressed the issues later on, like how the original M4 Sherman was horrible but many variations/upgrades later

    • @SgtZekeMitsubish
      @SgtZekeMitsubish 3 роки тому +8

      Very funny 😠

    • @pwrserge83
      @pwrserge83 3 роки тому +9

      @@Dianasaurthemelonlord7777 so those engineers were going to magic up armor that took multi-billion dollar conglomerates decades to develop? Please. The only tank to ever destroy an M1 Abrams is another M1 Abrams, and that was a mission kill, not a total wreck. The "M1s" you see fielded by other countries are export versions without the full armor package standard on US models. There's a reason why the Gulf War was one of the most one sided curbstomps in military history. The M1's main gun could go through any Iraqi tank the long ways even through entrenchments while the Iraqi tank guns created interesting smears on the armored hull of the Abrams. Simply put, the MBT main gun that can punch through the armor of an M1... does not exist.

  • @eggboi6760
    @eggboi6760 3 роки тому +2474

    Gaijin if they decide to add it to war thunder: hmmmm... let’s make it a........ German top tier premium

    • @anshuriku4956
      @anshuriku4956 3 роки тому +63

      Already have the f 5 now it needs the Osório

    • @kakagakakerger4165
      @kakagakakerger4165 3 роки тому +211

      gaijin would be rich if they added Brazilian vehicles/ Brazilian modified vehicles

    • @chalion8399
      @chalion8399 3 роки тому +111

      @@kakagakakerger4165 rich-er.

    • @kallmej8906
      @kallmej8906 3 роки тому +89

      Not gonna lie; I'd buy/grind & spade every single Brazilian vehicle. Being a Brazilian myself.

    • @corvisvictus3614
      @corvisvictus3614 3 роки тому +19

      Lol germany and russia have way too many tanks now and they are still getting more of them so i wouldnt be surprised

  • @FreedomFighterEx
    @FreedomFighterEx 3 роки тому +2085

    This tank is so blessed that it overflow back into being cursed.

    • @dopedoge3603
      @dopedoge3603 3 роки тому +37

      What’s your pfp from, it looks familiar but I can’t remember for shit

    • @FreedomFighterEx
      @FreedomFighterEx 3 роки тому +32

      @@dopedoge3603 She is my OC.

    • @amichiganboiwhosereallazy1544
      @amichiganboiwhosereallazy1544 3 роки тому +5

      Like the is7

    • @dopedoge3603
      @dopedoge3603 3 роки тому +13

      @@FreedomFighterEx oh nice, I have no idea why she looks familiar to me I must be thinking of something else lol

    • @ryanc9586
      @ryanc9586 3 роки тому +4

      I refuse to like the comment as it's at 404 like how my brain is when I try to comprehend German engineering

  • @eduardosoledade2895
    @eduardosoledade2895 3 роки тому +1049

    So cool as a brazilian to have someone from other country talking about this tank.

    • @murilorodrigues5670
      @murilorodrigues5670 3 роки тому +9

      Pra caralhoKKKKKKK

    • @Turmtxt
      @Turmtxt 3 роки тому +34

      Mucho respeto desde Chile compadre saludos tienen muy buenos tankes

    • @gazzangrad6378
      @gazzangrad6378 3 роки тому +6

      indeed meu camarada, is noice to feel some respect from ppl of other countryes

    • @kombosaforever8163
      @kombosaforever8163 3 роки тому +7

      Um gênio ou uma obra prima nasce em qualquer lugar do mundo nunca subestime isso, quando se tem a vontade e dedicação só faltam as ferramentas.

    • @PaulP580
      @PaulP580 3 роки тому +2

      Yeah, it’s junk. Enjoy 👍

  • @thedreamchasers7252
    @thedreamchasers7252 3 роки тому +424

    I love how they utilized the best parts of every tank, making such a great blend.
    I think one thing that might have been a strike against it was no armor testing. Everything else was great but they didn't know how protective the armor was

    • @ghanz84
      @ghanz84 3 роки тому +30

      Pretty it's protection is on the level of AMX40 but not up to Challenger 1 or M1 Abrams.

    • @mohhughes4870
      @mohhughes4870 2 роки тому +18

      Good point - a good gun without sufficient protection is a waste of armor and more importantly servicemen. The M1A1 has Chobham armor (I believe later variants add a layer of depleted unranium), which, whie not bulletproof, is close. IEDs do their damage typically on the thin-skin underbelly and mechanics.

    • @phyo1716
      @phyo1716 2 роки тому +24

      @@mohhughes4870 Good gun and a very good fire control system is more important than armor in modern tank on tank combat imo.

    • @SomeoneYouHate
      @SomeoneYouHate 2 роки тому

      @voo well
      A tabk can face a rifle fire which is also importent

    • @carlosiglesias9588
      @carlosiglesias9588 Рік тому

      Except the armor the Abrams and British tanks armor is secret.

  • @k-874
    @k-874 3 роки тому +2033

    So the Osório is basically the IS-7 Brazil edition:
    A tank that succeeded at everything but still failed to enter production and achieve anything

    • @CrazyDutchguys
      @CrazyDutchguys 3 роки тому +284

      to be fair the IS-7 wasnt succesfull because it would have been outdated very fast, heavy tanks were a dying breed for a reason

    • @Янус_Ырт
      @Янус_Ырт 3 роки тому +46

      @@CrazyDutchguys tanks with manned turret are going same way today

    • @phub9489
      @phub9489 3 роки тому +147

      @@Янус_Ырт not necessarily,manned turrets are still needed but countries are starting to cut down in crew numbers with the addition of AI systems and completely digital FCS which makes it look like a video game..where you kill people.

    • @AstinCrow
      @AstinCrow 3 роки тому +45

      @@Янус_Ырт the T-14 Armata isn't going to revolutionize that, really.

    • @Bigma_Industries
      @Bigma_Industries 3 роки тому +9

      @@Янус_Ырт How about 'Manned sank turret' designs? They could seem to stay, but it's basically the same as unmanned.

  • @gcruiz
    @gcruiz 3 роки тому +982

    Duuuuude when I was in technical college my Resistence Of Materials teacher worked in the Osório!

    • @ConeOfArc
      @ConeOfArc  3 роки тому +342

      If you have the ability to get in contact with them it would be cool to possibly get some of the information right from one of the engineers.

    • @robbiecotner3666
      @robbiecotner3666 3 роки тому +33

      Must’ve been cramped in there.

    • @fernandocarvalho3022
      @fernandocarvalho3022 3 роки тому +34

      Imagina estudar RESMAT com um cara desses, caraca!

    • @rattlesnakecvel
      @rattlesnakecvel 3 роки тому +6

      Patria Amada Brasil !

    • @ronaldo0grande
      @ronaldo0grande 3 роки тому +7

      @Travis Hanks thats Brasil way of life

  • @someasiandude4797
    @someasiandude4797 3 роки тому +1292

    Brazil: I made a better tank then the Abram-
    Politics: *i'm gonna stop you right there*

    • @Joshua_N-A
      @Joshua_N-A 3 роки тому +37

      "No strings attached", something that US don't understand yet. Anyone should be allowed to buy the best equipment regardless of technology used inside.

    • @nikarshadsulaiman9614
      @nikarshadsulaiman9614 3 роки тому +19

      @@Joshua_N-A wat? That second part of you sentence makes no sense

    • @Average_Arthur
      @Average_Arthur 3 роки тому +55

      @@Joshua_N-A The second part of your coment made no sense. Did you even watch the entire video? The Abrams was chosen so the saudi arabian government could keep good relations with the US, because there are several historical events that explain why you should keep good relations with the US.

    • @LeiteArts10
      @LeiteArts10 3 роки тому +10

      @Joe Blowe I'll stop bitching when you stop couping governments

    • @許進曾
      @許進曾 3 роки тому +2

      I wonder have they do a shot test with that thing because I don't really think there are composite armor in the turret.

  • @jasonscarborough94
    @jasonscarborough94 3 роки тому +2480

    "Sorry Brasil, but, the Yankees buy more oil" some Saudi prince, probably

    • @Sua_Sponte_-
      @Sua_Sponte_- 3 роки тому +22

      @Win SHAPPY you go with that ignorant statement

    • @deeplorable2913
      @deeplorable2913 3 роки тому +5

      @The plan lol epic!

    • @iamchillydogg
      @iamchillydogg 3 роки тому +15

      The Yankees fight their wars.

    • @iamchillydogg
      @iamchillydogg 3 роки тому

      @The plan
      Thong bikinis?

    • @AjwadMalik
      @AjwadMalik 3 роки тому +3

      @@Sua_Sponte_- See instagram is bad, But the point isn't that istagram is so bad, its just saying that brazil does have some intelligent people who make money instagram is bad but the guy who made it is aleast smart enough to trick people into using it.

  • @sinisterisrandom8537
    @sinisterisrandom8537 3 роки тому +1917

    Compared to some other cursed designs this one rates. Tolerable.

    • @Eire_Aontaithe
      @Eire_Aontaithe 3 роки тому +163

      The tank looks normal to me, not cursed at all

    • @danielm.595
      @danielm.595 3 роки тому +187

      @@Eire_Aontaithe I think that it's cursed by the fact that it was actually better than many other tanks of its time.

    • @luizviniciusvieiraalexandr4979
      @luizviniciusvieiraalexandr4979 3 роки тому +78

      the tank itself is normal, a project that was born from the zero and did great but sadly had a big downfall

    • @Notmyname1593
      @Notmyname1593 3 роки тому +42

      Arabs missed an opportunity to bring Brazil to their enemies.

    • @cristiancucu4100
      @cristiancucu4100 3 роки тому +34

      this tank was rather cursed bi politics :)

  • @BananamelonX
    @BananamelonX 3 роки тому +318

    If there's one lesson from the Osorio's pitiful story, it's that the strongest/best ones don't always win the race.

    • @carloscrcruz2533
      @carloscrcruz2533 3 роки тому +48

      the politics did

    • @binho4165
      @binho4165 3 роки тому +3

      O estados unido ja e bem conhecido no mundo todo e o brasil esta comessando agora
      Todo mundo preferio compra o tanque de um pais q todos ja conhece do q compra um q esta se desenvolvendo agora

    • @niklai1178
      @niklai1178 2 роки тому +4

      @@carloscrcruz2533 the low survivability cost it the win. Still a good tank tho

  • @murilovsilva
    @murilovsilva 3 роки тому +844

    I'm Brazilian, and when I stumbled upon this video I thought to myself, "how come I've never heard of this tank??" Well, there's the sad answer.

  • @nadimakram106
    @nadimakram106 3 роки тому +305

    this is sad. I can't even imagine how furious & sad were the engineers of Engesa.

    • @KaoruSF
      @KaoruSF 3 роки тому +73

      You beat the whole world, just so that they won't even recognize you, what a sad reality

    • @nadimakram106
      @nadimakram106 3 роки тому +51

      @@KaoruSF i know right? They destroyed some brilliant engineers dream!

    • @shikikankillzone4239
      @shikikankillzone4239 3 роки тому +35

      @@nadimakram106 _They needed them oil deals man_

    • @Orcawhale1
      @Orcawhale1 3 роки тому +5

      Gotta love, how you guys just completely ignore the conclusion of this video..

    • @nadimakram106
      @nadimakram106 3 роки тому

      @@Orcawhale1 & what's that?

  • @leonardotunin1521
    @leonardotunin1521 3 роки тому +290

    Hey Cone, just a quick correction. In the beggining of the video, u said that the Osório is the only domestic MBT produced by Brazil, but that's not correct.
    We had another MBT, it was called MB-3 Tamoyo, and was produced by Bernardini, another private enterprise just like Engesa. Bernardini worked on upgrading the old brazilian tanks, such as the M3 Stuart (which became the X1 variants) and the M41 (which became the M41C).
    The story of Bernardini is a very interesting one, and I realy recomend u doing a video on it, people would surelly apreciate. And, if you do consider this idea, you can count with my help.
    Love your content m8

    • @ConeOfArc
      @ConeOfArc  3 роки тому +108

      The reason I said it's the best not domestic MBT is because the MB-3 isn't domestically produced it was an upgrade to a tank built by another nation. Brazil did design the upgrade but they didn't design the vehicle. The Osorio was built from the ground up so I consider it a domestic design.

    • @leonardotunin1521
      @leonardotunin1521 3 роки тому +42

      @@ConeOfArc omg you did answer, i'm pretty happy with it.
      Yeah, indeed, the MB-3 was based on the M41, althought the inspiration draws more on the M41C i've mentioned, which is VERY modified. Nonetheless, it's still based in an foreign vehicle. I undestand your point, and i agree with u.
      The thing i think is realy interesting about the Tamoyo (the Tamoyos I and II, to be precise) is that the tanks had mainly national components, unlike the Osório. Also, the main focus of Bernardini was selling it to the Brazilian Army, unlike Engesa with the Osório.
      Still, Bernardini made some realy incredible things with the old tanks our army used during the 60s and 70s, some of them are very interesting (for example, this is what they've done with the M3 Stuart "Off The Mark: US Revamp: X1A2" otm-uswot.blogspot.com/2018/03/x1a2.html?m=1 )
      Anyways, thanks for the reply dude, and if you do want to make more videos about brazilian tanks, you can count with me.

    • @YM-pu4rn
      @YM-pu4rn 2 роки тому +10

      seems your wish came true

    • @bagameplaysbrasil6270
      @bagameplaysbrasil6270 11 місяців тому +2

      If fact, Osório was not 100% demestic, most technology was bought from europe

    • @PauloPereira-jj4jv
      @PauloPereira-jj4jv 6 місяців тому

      You're totally wrong. The Tamoyo was a MEDIUM tank and not an MBT...

  • @henryhamilton4087
    @henryhamilton4087 3 роки тому +343

    Can we give a second about how he presents the Coldest Water bottle in a way that actually explains what it does and actually makes at least some of us interested in it rather than just saying it in a haughty tone and drinking out of it?

    • @Satanperkele
      @Satanperkele 3 роки тому +14

      It is still just a vacuum insulated bottle, also known as a thermos.

  • @northumbriabushcraft1208
    @northumbriabushcraft1208 3 роки тому +178

    I'm happy that some of them made it into a museum instead of them being scrapped. My country (Britain) has a habit for scrapping and shooting stuff up. There is a rare tortoise tank/spg used as a static target in Scotland.

    • @nopurpose9113
      @nopurpose9113 3 роки тому +9

      For real? I thought they will appreciate the vehicle for involving in the demolition of bunkers or obstacles at the Siegfried Line.

    • @Orinslayer
      @Orinslayer 3 роки тому +11

      @@nopurpose9113 Tortoise never saw service. There is A mild steel prototype in a museum, but the 2 other "surviving" examples of full-armor prototypes are range targets.

    • @smeghead765
      @smeghead765 3 роки тому +14

      Isn't all of Scotland just one big range though?

    • @nopurpose9113
      @nopurpose9113 3 роки тому +3

      @@smeghead765 Dude,
      *DON'T*.

    • @andrelunkes1038
      @andrelunkes1038 3 роки тому +1

      Yes, it is in the south now, because the armored vehicle training center was transferred from Rio de Janeiro to Santa Maria, here is the link, for you to see our other military vehicles. www.cibld.eb.mil.br/index.php/museu-blindado#ee-t1-os%C3%B3rio

  • @GammaMorser
    @GammaMorser 3 роки тому +221

    They should've offered this to other smaller nations who are willing to try out NATO tanks but are not paid attention by US, UK, France or Germany.

    • @ballsdeep7056
      @ballsdeep7056 3 роки тому +3

      The big boi nations dont care because they have better tanks and they dont want to look shit by buying a tank from south america

    • @imperialenforcer2271
      @imperialenforcer2271 3 роки тому +35

      @@ballsdeep7056 Asian and African countries would've bought it gladly

    • @ballsdeep7056
      @ballsdeep7056 3 роки тому +1

      @Leopard 2A4 MBT what?, you really want america to look like a dumbshit by buying a tank from south america? Other countries will laugh at them then

    • @brunoacostasilva
      @brunoacostasilva 2 роки тому +7

      @@ballsdeep7056 It's a better Tank.
      If there was war the Brazilian Tank would be more likely to give you victories in land battles, instead of M1 Abrams.
      So it's definitely the best choice. You buy weapons to win wars, not look good.

    • @ballsdeep7056
      @ballsdeep7056 2 роки тому +2

      @@brunoacostasilva america is a large country that protects europe, asia, and itself, if they mass produced the osorio russia and china will think america is weak, plus the abrams is combat proven enough

  • @pedror598
    @pedror598 3 роки тому +1409

    Brazil is coming to you... in a modern MBT

    • @_gungrave_6802
      @_gungrave_6802 3 роки тому +53

      A modern MBT that no one outside of Brazil has really heard of.

    • @mohammedrazeenzaeencamil9344
      @mohammedrazeenzaeencamil9344 3 роки тому +7

      AHHH!!!

    • @kayagorzan
      @kayagorzan 3 роки тому +5

      Indeed

    • @Chky40
      @Chky40 3 роки тому +26

      I dont want to go to brazil

    • @pedror598
      @pedror598 3 роки тому +33

      @@_gungrave_6802 Trust me, theres a lot of retards asking gaijin to put this and other Brazilian MBTs in the game because they think it's the greatest thing in the world. Their insistence is quite annoying sometimes. Look up for MB-3 Tamoyo, another very nice brazilian tank.

  • @kayagorzan
    @kayagorzan 3 роки тому +442

    “You learn something new everyday”
    -Some bloke I forgot

  • @bigtony4829
    @bigtony4829 3 роки тому +166

    Sweden is another country making very high end kit that often goes under the radar

  • @TheBigExclusive
    @TheBigExclusive 3 роки тому +412

    You forgot to mention that Saudi Arabia placed an initial bid to buy about ~300 Osorio tanks. However, Saudi Arabia went back on their word, purposely stalled on finalizing the contract with the tank manufacturer (leaving Engesa hanging in limbo), and then suddenly bought Abrams instead. International Politics probably played a huge role. Brazil was not as big as America in defense exports. And I doubt other major military exporters (Britain, France, Germany, etc) wanted to make room at the table for a new competitor. It would not surprise if some political shenanigans were going on behind the scenes to make sure Osorio was never ordered.

    • @mankepoot9440
      @mankepoot9440 3 роки тому +36

      History has shown that the decision to buy gear in Saudi Arabia is mainly decided by the amount of money that is converted to all the nephews of the King.

    • @keithsimpson2685
      @keithsimpson2685 3 роки тому +35

      The market is bullshit lol. Why buy what works best for your country when really you just need to please the Americans?

    • @aidanatkinson7717
      @aidanatkinson7717 3 роки тому +23

      @@keithsimpson2685 to be fair the Americans also had alot more tanks made at the time and had a higher standard of quality due to already being tested and tried by America, it had a stronger and more resilient turbine engine albeit at the cost of higher fuel consumption(I dont think Saudi arabia minds that though), it also had alot more time and money put into its development. Saudi arabia buying the osorio would have been like buying a beta model which had never really been tested and was all good in theory. It proved well at the testing ground and did show promising results but, Saudi Arabia also had a sizable war debt to pay back to America so buying the Abram was likely very politically encouraged but wasn't necessarily the only reason the Abram was chosen.

    • @RedXlV
      @RedXlV 3 роки тому +14

      Combine that with the fact that Iraq owed Engesa quite a bit of money for armored car contracts that were defaulted on after the Gulf War, that war is what ended them as a company.

    • @thedwightguy
      @thedwightguy 3 роки тому +7

      AS Karl-Heinz Shreiber the German arms and contract lobbyist said in a Canadian interview: "If it's a billion dollar contract, it IS a POLITICAL DECISION. (He was the one that gave Prime Minister B. Mulroney a brown bag of cash and got nothing for it).

  • @_Matsimus_
    @_Matsimus_ 3 роки тому +1312

    Very interesting video! Very well done! Subbed 👍🙂

    • @LeiteArts10
      @LeiteArts10 3 роки тому +29

      just know if you include the word brazilian on a video you'll get 50% more views

    • @gabrielmeneghetti1474
      @gabrielmeneghetti1474 3 роки тому +9

      Please tell something about it in your channel Matsimus! It would be an honor for us Brazilians!

    • @silvadossantos6803
      @silvadossantos6803 3 роки тому +3

      Do it for the kids!

    • @defencebangladesh4068
      @defencebangladesh4068 3 роки тому +2

      Nice to see you here

    • @XxBlacKkNighTxX7
      @XxBlacKkNighTxX7 3 роки тому +3

      I was about to say where's Matsimus. Mat can you make video and confirm this?

  • @waltsears
    @waltsears 3 роки тому +75

    This is a very revealing video about a head to head test competition. However, as other posters have mentioned, the decision to purchase an MBT is quite different than buying a single, well performing model. Logistics, reliability, track record, resupply, expected upgrades and yes, even geopolitics enter into the equation. I appreciate the engineering accomplishment that the Osorio represents, and that’s an important piece of the puzzle…but only one piece. Thanks for the vid!

    • @omsblackelf
      @omsblackelf 2 роки тому +4

      You forgot the most important points: lobbying & corruption. While in this case just an assumption, history has shown that those factors play major roles, especially in state contracts, so it seems quite likely here as well. Having the best product means nothing compared to having the strongest lobby bribing the right people. As stated before, without solid proof I may very well be wrong, but it still seems likely to me.

    • @arthas640
      @arthas640 Рік тому +5

      I'm always a bit hesitant in tests like this to draw too many conclusions. Prototypes are often hand made by the company and it's designers/engineers to the highest specifications so they often perform much better than production models. Once a tank enters production they cut corners to make them easier and cheaper to produce, they sometimes cut features, and since they're assembled by factory workers using mass produced materials they're not built to as high a quality. That's the main reason that Russian/Soviet vehicles often perform great in tests or at shows like this but then the real tanks are significantly worse. A good, but old, example is the T-34 which had armor that most German weapons couldnt penetrate... or it was supposed to at least, the real production models had worse steel than the prototypes and early models and the tank could be destroyed by guns it's armor should have shrugged off.
      I dont know about this test specifically but I've seen some similar tests where they take a prototype model and compare it to a different, production model tank and the prototype can perform better since it was a bespoke tank built by a team of engineers and designers rather than a production model built en masse by factory workers. There's also the issue that MANY pieces of equipment from tanks to aircraft can seem great on paper and seem great with hand built prototypes but then severely under perform in real combat. Even some of the best pieces of military equipment will get upgrades and alterations after being combat tested regardless of how well they were tested in a lab. The M-16 was a good example: the first models were flawless when fired in a lab by experienced technicians and testers but once it got out in the field they realized it had more trouble than they thought in harsh environments like muddy trenches or fox holes, or in the jungle and it required some alterations and more maintenance training. The first M-16s were trash compared to later models like the M16A1 or M4, and a lot of the problems were because of issues discovered in the field when the weapon was used in combat: like the full auto setting was assumed to be great because it provided excellent covering fire when needed but in reality soldiers tended to shoot off full clips (often missing), the normal clip size meant that covering fire only lasted seconds, and the soldiers got weighed down carrying extra ammo but switching it to a burst fire setting made it both more accurate, more efficient on ammo usage, and made it so that the covering fire could last longer before needing to reloaded.

  • @lerandomguy2109
    @lerandomguy2109 3 роки тому +419

    Osório: *Cursed by government*

    • @rhazien2502
      @rhazien2502 3 роки тому +33

      Like every other thing in Brazil to be honest. Fuck this country politics, only corrupt fucks and a woman that got the presidency to go on and make a speech about stocking wind, that is our political representation, for fuck sakes Brazil is a place that not even god feels sorry for.

    • @fspanzer1737
      @fspanzer1737 3 роки тому +42

      @@rhazien2502 Unfortunately. Had everything to be a superpower: Massive population, strong army (9th world power by 2021), relatively rich overall economy (12th highest GDP, before the pandemic it was 10th or so), incredibly rich in natural resources, no major rivals, etc. But the government has proven to be amazingly good at taking this country's potential and throwing it out the window.

    • @rhazien2502
      @rhazien2502 3 роки тому +11

      @@fspanzer1737 out of the windows of a plane might I add, Brazilian politics are so fucking corrupt. It fucking depresses me.

    • @iurikk08
      @iurikk08 3 роки тому +3

      @@rhazien2502 Yeah dude your "FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING" leftism has ruined Brazil, that's how you talk? "For fuck sakes" "Fucking corrupt " why so many "fuck" and "fucking"? Are you mad buddy?

    • @rhazien2502
      @rhazien2502 3 роки тому +12

      @@iurikk08 yes I am mad with Brazilian government, mainly because I live in this hell hole. Got a problem with me swearing?

  • @gusgone4527
    @gusgone4527 3 роки тому +1212

    Brazil is a sleeping giant when it comes to weapons design. They have turned out some remarkable ideas.

    • @robsondefreitasneves3251
      @robsondefreitasneves3251 3 роки тому +87

      And they have not ever lost a war!!!

    • @gusgone4527
      @gusgone4527 3 роки тому +119

      @@robsondefreitasneves3251 Not that they have fought any of the major powers, other than in great alliances WWI & WWII. Which in itself speaks volumes. Well done Brazil.

    • @lamalien2276
      @lamalien2276 3 роки тому +186

      @@gusgone4527 Not true, as a colony they rebuffed invasions by the Dutch and French, as a nation/empire they defeated attempts at sovereign annexation of Trinidad region (not the Island nation) by the British and the Amapa region of Brazil by France.

    • @robsondefreitasneves3251
      @robsondefreitasneves3251 3 роки тому +9

      Iron,uranium,gold,silver,copper oil,Water,and 2/3 of the EUA in productive land that will fuel for many investment in weaponry and army power

    • @robsondefreitasneves3251
      @robsondefreitasneves3251 3 роки тому +9

      This will decide next possible conflicts “Resources”

  • @polygorg
    @polygorg 3 роки тому +88

    This tank is absolutely beautiful and noones telling me otherwise.

  • @lfla0179
    @lfla0179 3 роки тому +236

    That was surprising!
    Well, Brazil paid back in full, they chose the Gripen instead of F-16's or F-18's, being the Nordic fighter well suited to the long ranges and operational hardships of Brazil. Once again, the US options were no better than any other.
    To make matters worse, the Gripen had the technological transfer agreement with it, while the US options had none. But that's another story..

    • @binho4165
      @binho4165 3 роки тому +10

      Traduzindo nos compramos gripes e vamos fabrica gripens

    • @higorjosedesantanadosreis3928
      @higorjosedesantanadosreis3928 2 роки тому +8

      @@binho4165" adicionando a tradução" ele se gaba por ter o melhor tecnologia em caças mas nos escolhemos o melhor caça não furtivo e o mais barato a longo prazo

    • @dark_gamerbr3372
      @dark_gamerbr3372 2 роки тому +2

      @@higorjosedesantanadosreis3928 Ele sabe que o Gripen se sai melhor que o F-16 e o F-18 kksksksksk

    • @cf1925
      @cf1925 2 роки тому +12

      I'm pretty sure that's because the F-16's and F-18's are going to retired soon and are out of date???
      Also, it's kind of sad how people here are comparing the Gripen to the F-16 and F-18, considering that they're an entire generation apart. Not saying that the Gripen isn't good, it's fantastic, but it just seems like people are too quick to mock the American aircraft, not knowing how long they've been serving and that they're being retired soon, too. (Early 2030's)
      Brazil probably didn't want just hand-me-downs and chose the Gripen, which they should've.

    • @Nyx_2142
      @Nyx_2142 2 роки тому

      Congrats. You attempted to get a shiny tank and got some shiny planes. Now all you need to is use them to fix your shithole of a country. No? Yeah, figured you'd rather keep destroying the largest forest on Earth and polluting the largest river on Earth, with your side hobby of bulldozing slums for complexes that will never be completed

  • @AA-ju6mk
    @AA-ju6mk 3 роки тому +812

    “But they chose the abrams instead” I can smell some US influence here ( wouldn’t be a surprise tho it’s Saudi Arabia)

    • @marceloescobar9096
      @marceloescobar9096 3 роки тому +88

      Well it's kinda true, engesa was also making deals with iraq and they did even make a contract to sell the osorio to iraq, in the end it was kinda their own fault, because the deal with iraq turned out to be a scam and because of that they ended up with no money and no contract.

    • @ducesettutamen
      @ducesettutamen 3 роки тому +62

      It was actually the opposite, the Saudis worked over the US. At the time the US refused to supply the Saudi's with a US standard M1A1. The proposed export version would have lacked the DU armor inserts as well as both the thermal imager and the position location reporting system. There are also claims that the AGT-1500 was to have its governor set at a performance level below that of the US version. Beyond that the US didn't want to equip its allies with the M829 APFSDS but instead with the less effective US copy of the German DM13 the XM827.

    • @carloshenriquezimmer7543
      @carloshenriquezimmer7543 3 роки тому +85

      You know guys, the three of you are rigth about it.
      It was a combination of those factors, and lack of Brazillian Army interest at hte time, that lead to the downfall of the Osório.
      The Saudy government had even signed an agreement with Engesa to build a production line there, with the caviat that they would make 1 free Osório for Brazil for every 4 Saudy's completed.
      But when they found about the Iraqui deal they backed out of the agreements, because they had a safety clause that restricted Osório's purchase from Saudy Arabia's enemies
      And was Saddan Hussein's fault that Engesa went down: he had purchased some heavy equipment from them , never to pay them back.
      That, plus the unrecovered development costs of the tank demolished the company.

    • @jesseeades1434
      @jesseeades1434 3 роки тому +5

      Also have to factor in the fact that the Abrams is a modular vehicle.

    • @Biden_is_demented
      @Biden_is_demented 3 роки тому +41

      @@jesseeades1434 Abrams was chosen due to politics. Many times nations settle for an inferior machine because they are getting kickbacks somewhere else. Same is happening with the lame duck F-35. Everyone knows the aircraft is bad, with just the stealth as its sole redeeming feature, and yet the US pushed the sales to boost american industry. And line the pockets of a few politicians...

  • @stevemc01
    @stevemc01 3 роки тому +243

    I see the “You are going TO BRAZIL” meme now...
    *Abrams screaming*

    • @avaragefan7595
      @avaragefan7595 3 роки тому +5

      @Joe Blowe * angry american noises *

    • @SgtZekeMitsubish
      @SgtZekeMitsubish 3 роки тому

      You think you're the best, right broken into

    • @stevemc01
      @stevemc01 3 роки тому +1

      @@SgtZekeMitsubish ...what...?

    • @foxbrx8539
      @foxbrx8539 3 роки тому

      @Alguém do século 20 Pqp em jovem, que vergonha vc representa na internet ...

  • @hmmmintresting3770
    @hmmmintresting3770 3 роки тому +288

    Remember kids if you don't come to brazil, BRAZIL WILL COME FOR YOU

  • @TheOfficialXan71
    @TheOfficialXan71 3 роки тому +707

    As Concerning as this , the "your're going to brazil" meme is now terryfying
    (edit):I have to edit this comment because of one englishman who auto-corrected this comment with some 'kind words' he typed

    • @HakimFinger1953
      @HakimFinger1953 3 роки тому +5

      take my like

    • @deennice6035
      @deennice6035 3 роки тому

      @@HakimFinger1953 stfu

    • @peterni2234
      @peterni2234 3 роки тому +3

      DeenNice nice pfp but shitty comment.

    • @HakimFinger1953
      @HakimFinger1953 3 роки тому +11

      @@deennice6035 why? i just sai 'take my like' how is that offensive? or you just a big crybaby salt water bath tub filler?

    • @spacespino2325
      @spacespino2325 3 роки тому

      @@peterni2234 Bro what did he do

  • @operation1523
    @operation1523 3 роки тому +45

    Shame how this tank never went into production. it's history kinda reminds me of the Northrop f20.

  • @aabattery1234
    @aabattery1234 3 роки тому +222

    *Now all of Brazil knows you're here*
    Edit: I dont speak Portuguese

  • @averagewikipediaenthusiast3088
    @averagewikipediaenthusiast3088 3 роки тому +250

    YOU ARE COMING TO BRAZIL

    • @wheneggsdrop1701
      @wheneggsdrop1701 3 роки тому +13

      But what if I time traveled to before 1500 then no one would know that Brazil existed and your entire plan would collapse in on itself. I'm over thinking this even tho it is a joke.

    • @doctorchaotic3415
      @doctorchaotic3415 3 роки тому +3

      **stays in malaysia** _No_

    • @Sidedlist
      @Sidedlist 3 роки тому +3

      I’d stay here is Hawaii I think I like our coconuts and sweet hotels so I’ll stay here

    • @USSR.T-90A
      @USSR.T-90A 3 роки тому +1

      I'm Malaysian

    • @arya31ful
      @arya31ful 3 роки тому +4

      OR BRAZIL COMES TO YOU *rev tank engine*

  • @rodrigo_dmatoss
    @rodrigo_dmatoss Рік тому +16

    Also important to register that the US is constantly working to not let the Brazilian industry to develop. I assume you would find it relatively easy to consider that it is not in the US best interest to compete with an influential Brazil.
    Love from Brazil.

    • @ravenwing199
      @ravenwing199 6 місяців тому +4

      No the US isn't. The US sometimes entirely forgets about Brazil. Brazil's problems are often internal corruption and poor reputation.

    • @catritonix
      @catritonix 2 місяці тому

      Problems of second and third world nations are always explained by their internal affairs and never by "evil americans not wanting anyone to develop"

  • @joaopedropeixoto8558
    @joaopedropeixoto8558 3 роки тому +31

    Awesome video! Brazil passes unnoticed by most when it comes to technology. Little do they know that they've probably flown in brazilian airplanes, designed and built by Embraer, one of the best brands in the market. Also, the government owned company Embrapa developed, a few decades ago, a soil correction technology that allowed farmers to grow pretty much anything in acidic soils. The same technology is now being exported to Mozambique in order to help them in their development. Another good example is Weg, a brazilian company that produces and exports electric motors, generators, mechanical components and many others. Not to mention the newly inaugurated particle acelerator in Campinas, in the state of São Paulo and the first 100% brazilian satelite that went into orbit last week to patrol the Amazon. Great content!

  • @christianjohnson9190
    @christianjohnson9190 3 роки тому +41

    I can’t complain, a different country learns from other people battles and experiences and turns that into a better tank
    No one expects the quiet ones

  • @igormarcos687
    @igormarcos687 3 роки тому +23

    The world:
    "what? you want to build a tank? you know nothing about building tanks!"
    Brazil:
    "exactly, and that is our advantage"

  • @PedroCosta-po5nu
    @PedroCosta-po5nu 3 роки тому +201

    Finally, I have achieved peace

  • @yaboianz
    @yaboianz 3 роки тому +28

    as a Brazilian i loved to watch this, i knew the tank but never been aware of the fact it managed to beat the Abrams at some point. it's also nice to note we also have the EE-9 Cascavel and the EE-11 Urutu, two APCs with relatively big armament for their size. if i remember correctly, the Cascavel has a 95mm smoothbore gun, and the Urutu has a 40mm autocannon completed with a vertical stabilizer. we also have a few Leopards 2A4 and the Abrams itself
    come to brazil pls 🦅

    • @burnttoaster6313
      @burnttoaster6313 3 роки тому +2

      It beat the export abrams not the actual US abrams

    • @yaboianz
      @yaboianz 3 роки тому

      @@burnttoaster6313 yes lol

    • @bussolini6307
      @bussolini6307 3 роки тому +2

      Totally wrong, the cascavel has a 90mm Cannon, the urutu doesn't have any weapon since It is a transport vehicle, and Brazil don't have leopard 2s and Abrams, only leopard 1s and m60.

    • @yaboianz
      @yaboianz 3 роки тому +1

      @@bussolini6307 wait really? oml thank you, my memory sucks 😂😂

    • @bussolini6307
      @bussolini6307 3 роки тому

      No problem mate

  • @TycoonTitian01
    @TycoonTitian01 3 роки тому +63

    Brazil: *YOUR GOING TO BRAZIL!*
    Abrams: AAAAAAAaAaAaaaa

    • @TycoonTitian01
      @TycoonTitian01 3 роки тому +1

      @Joe Blowe but it didnt so guess that its not bad

  • @jaysonbruno1226
    @jaysonbruno1226 3 роки тому +101

    I was in the brazilian army at the time that this tank was in trails for ours tank battalions the Tank was really good but the gorvement choose the cheaper option that Was to buy leopard 1 tanks from germany

    • @carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222
      @carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222 Рік тому

      So osarious don't exist anymore?

    • @CaesarAvgvstvsP
      @CaesarAvgvstvsP Рік тому

      @@carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222 não,não passou de protótipo infelizmente 😢

    • @carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222
      @carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222 Рік тому

      @@CaesarAvgvstvsP English please

    • @CaesarAvgvstvsP
      @CaesarAvgvstvsP Рік тому +1

      @@carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222 I said it was just a prototype, unfortunately....

    • @Einsym
      @Einsym Рік тому +1

      @@carymnuhgibrilsamadalnasud1222 They do, but only two are still in the army and one has been fixed to at least move during a parade

  • @Bigma_Industries
    @Bigma_Industries 3 роки тому +128

    Obligatory Gaijin pwease??
    *Post-premiere comment:* _"even the most advanced military machines could still be bested by anyone with enough ingenuity."_
    is going in my book of quotes I like.

    • @lucasmaciel5488
      @lucasmaciel5488 3 роки тому +3

      It was already passed to the developers last year

    • @Bigma_Industries
      @Bigma_Industries 3 роки тому

      @@lucasmaciel5488 hmm.. for what nation do you think? maybe a new one?

    • @evo3s75
      @evo3s75 3 роки тому +3

      @@Bigma_Industries no, 100% to the US just like all the Merkava's

    • @lucasmaciel5488
      @lucasmaciel5488 3 роки тому +3

      @@Bigma_Industries either the US or France. Most of our tanks are based on US designs (like the X2A1 or Tamoyo MBT) but our armored vehicles use a lot of french technology (like both the 90mm cannons and the 120mm of the Osorio)

    • @smeghead765
      @smeghead765 3 роки тому +1

      That's too bad. I get that the snail wants full tech trees for nations well known for their native designs. But I really think doing a sort of combined region tech tree could bring a lot of really interesting vehicles to the game while filling out the trees. Only thing that might be a problem is low tier vehicles.

  • @Rudolph486
    @Rudolph486 3 роки тому +10

    There is one of this tank in Brazilian South, where the picture in 7:28 was taken. I saw this tank back in 2012 in its old camouflage before it was painted like that. We were allowed to take pictures with it and I barely took a few because a didnt know the backstory of that, just by thinking I was inside of one of those and even got to see through the optics without knowing the backstory of it makes me feel dumb as hell.

  • @fratercontenduntocculta8161
    @fratercontenduntocculta8161 3 роки тому +35

    As an former Abrams commander, there are dozens of tanks that can outperform it. Russia also has turbine powered tanks. The Abrams is just impressive for what it is, a lumbering 72 ton DU-reinforced behemoth. The cold war Russian tanks are much more worrisome to fight because of their sheer numbers, low profiles and speed. Thanks for introducing me to a new and cool tank!

    • @Moomoo254
      @Moomoo254 3 роки тому +3

      Interesting insight, thanks for sharing your POV.

    • @philonetic321
      @philonetic321 3 роки тому +4

      I'd be interested in knowing which tank outperforms it in accuracy or shooting trials.

    • @Chopstorm.
      @Chopstorm. 3 роки тому +7

      The turbine in the T80 was horribly unreliable, hence why it was replaced with a diesel. As far as I know, the Abrams is the only frontline MBT with a reliable turbine engine in it.

    • @thewhite8uard
      @thewhite8uard 3 роки тому +5

      Abrams is faster than any Russian tank. With the engine governor removed it makes speeds of around 60 mph (97 km/h).
      Osório's weight is 39 metric tonnes. it's lighter than t-72, and it has 4 members crew. Its armor must be thin as a foil.

    • @billytheshoebill5364
      @billytheshoebill5364 2 роки тому

      *a lumbering 66.8 metric ton of DU-reinforced behemoth (also ERA and stuff)

  • @christianwilson5956
    @christianwilson5956 3 роки тому +44

    I think the curse of the Osorio was designing it for export first rather than domestic use. Combined with the multinational hodgepodge of components the tank was destined to be too expensive to operate long term. Had Brazil adopted the Osorio as their own MBT they would have a world class tank of their own that would have likely seen use by other similarly sized nations.

    • @allorfh2495
      @allorfh2495 3 роки тому +4

      I think they designed it for export because
      a: they didnt have the money to fund the enitre project by themselves
      b: feel free to prove me wrong but for brazil, infantry support vehicles were much more useful than MBTs. Even those two completed prototypes were sitting at a garage until they were acutioned off.

    • @christianwilson5956
      @christianwilson5956 3 роки тому +7

      @@allorfh2495 i agree. I just think that designing a vehicle entirely for export dooms it to failure because it will not have the same supply chain support. The best export vehicles have always been a main line vehicle that was stripped of bells and whistles and sold at a cheaper price. This is why the t72 sold so well and why the abrams and leopard are in the hands of so many countries.

    • @andrelunkes1038
      @andrelunkes1038 3 роки тому +6

      @@christianwilson5956 Brazil went bankrupt in the 1980s, hyperinflation was common, things are changing, there is a program called "new armor" designed to replace Leopards 1A5. With the success of the Guarani 6X6 program, the military requested a new family of vehicles, MMBT, IFV, APC and engineering support vehicles, which share the same hull, KMW and BAE systems have already made a proposal to assist in the development of this new vehicle family, the tank will be an MMBT, like a CV90120 or an Ascod 2, due to the peculiarity of our geography it is difficult to move with 60/70 ton vehicles, the main objective is a 120mm cannon, excellent optics and FCS , and a maximum weight of 50 tonnes.

    • @ppellacani
      @ppellacani 3 роки тому +3

      I believe Brazil's military simply doesn't use so many tanks also. Big heavy slow tanks are useless in the jungle, rivers and mountains of Brazil. I believe that's why their domestic military focused in high autonomy light aircraft (like the awesome Super Tucano) and missle lauchers (Astros II).

    • @andrelunkes1038
      @andrelunkes1038 3 роки тому +2

      @@ppellacani Take a look at this video and see by yourself, we have a lot of flat plain. ua-cam.com/video/bD71LRpJmp4/v-deo.html

  • @TheAllMightyGodofCod
    @TheAllMightyGodofCod 3 роки тому +148

    The "S" in "Osório" is pronounced as a "Z". It is Portuguese, not Spanish.
    Same thing on "ENGESA", it is a "Z" sound.
    I will not correct you on "Conde de Linhares" pronunciation as I have no idea on where to start.

    • @CasperTheRamKnight
      @CasperTheRamKnight 3 роки тому +4

      oloco ti vendo toda hora teu comentario nos video KKKKKKKKKKKK

    • @perkaperkins01
      @perkaperkins01 3 роки тому +1

      In latin spanish the z s and c sounds the same

    • @CasperTheRamKnight
      @CasperTheRamKnight 3 роки тому

      @FailZero ackstually is meshchi co🤓

    • @aruhe6650
      @aruhe6650 3 роки тому +4

      He's not a native portuguese speaker, it's petty to correct him

    • @soares8802
      @soares8802 3 роки тому

      A língua nativa dele não é Português....

  • @beachblitz0612
    @beachblitz0612 3 роки тому +71

    The Osorio is going to bring the Abrams to Brazil.

  • @ronlawrence5021
    @ronlawrence5021 3 роки тому +18

    In the design of every combat vehicle, compromises are inevitable. I remember thinking to myself when I drew one of the very first M1s assigned to Europe, "Looks like they ran out of R&D money when they got to the Tank Commander's cupola." Any of you who actually crewed one of the original M1s knows exactly what I'm talking about. So the fact that some obscure company somewhere could one-off a better tank doesn't surprise me. Frankly, I saw several experimental models of the M1 that never made it into production but were significantly advanced over the model that eventually went to production.
    Here's the bottom line: The full production model of the M1 tank was extremely effective against the enemy. More so than any other production model. And in the final analysis, if you don't care for the M1, all that really means is you never crewed an M60A3 or worse...the M60A1.

  • @pedropinheiro5109
    @pedropinheiro5109 2 роки тому +2

    The US tactics to implement an embargo on Brazilian military products has a long history, and it still happening to this day. My uncle worked as the main selling chief overseas for ENGESA in the 80's and for AVIBRAS in the 90's. He went to Saudi Arabia and Iraq during this period. He says the Osório MBT was the most beautiful and functional tank he had ever seen. As a vendor for these weapons he needed to know how to operate these tanks, not only Osório and cascavel but also competitor designs.
    Our military industry has a lot of potential but the problem is in the development of very especific systems and parts which are not produced here, usually these companies relying on US parts to finish their products. And what happens is that the us does not provide such parts to stop or slow the development to prevent them from losing profit. It happened to Osório, laser guided missiles, cruise missiles, jet fighters and many other items.

  • @fernandomarques5166
    @fernandomarques5166 3 роки тому +290

    When you get fed up of "You're going to Brazil" memes and decide to go after the perpetrators. HUE HUE HUE
    Hey Cone you should look into the MB-3 Tamoyo design sometime too or even the Cascavel armoured car

    • @pedror598
      @pedror598 3 роки тому +6

      Nomes indígenas nos veículos fica foda bagarai

    • @OITA_
      @OITA_ 3 роки тому +1

      @@pedror598 vdd kkkkk

    • @tinky-winky3689
      @tinky-winky3689 3 роки тому

      @@pedror598 real

  • @nbranski43
    @nbranski43 3 роки тому +81

    Imagine this tank being in War Thunder, with the size of that mantlet.

    • @sr.guelis3751
      @sr.guelis3751 3 роки тому +10

      I would pay if I went to have it in my garage. and yes i'm brazilian

    • @rexlapis9567
      @rexlapis9567 3 роки тому +1

      I would give my battlefield accounts for it

    • @ICCUWANSIUT
      @ICCUWANSIUT 3 роки тому +3

      @@sr.guelis3751 which nation though? Obviously a premium but it doesn't really fit the American top tier very much. It's very Italian looking to me, personally.

    • @sr.guelis3751
      @sr.guelis3751 3 роки тому +3

      @@ICCUWANSIUT It is because he is not American, he is Brazilian.

    • @sr.guelis3751
      @sr.guelis3751 3 роки тому

      and my name is like this because it is the name of my channel and also because I am Brazilian and it for English would be more or less lets play.

  • @timoteomaciel4732
    @timoteomaciel4732 3 роки тому +2

    Hey guys i'm from Brazil Nice to see this tank here!!!

  • @callmefreezy-zz5398
    @callmefreezy-zz5398 3 роки тому +266

    Brazil beating US
    *engesa has left the chat*

    • @MogeMota
      @MogeMota 3 роки тому

      :(((

    • @randomt-9034
      @randomt-9034 3 роки тому +9

      Osorio to Abrams:
      YOU ARE GOING TO BRAZIL
      Abrams:
      Noo I don't want to go to Brazi-
      AAAAAAH

    • @anotheralpharius2056
      @anotheralpharius2056 3 роки тому +3

      for all we know the armor was hollow aluminum

    • @bernardosantos6814
      @bernardosantos6814 3 роки тому +1

      @@anotheralpharius2056 Bimetallic and composite armor.

    • @anotheralpharius2056
      @anotheralpharius2056 3 роки тому

      @@bernardosantos6814 was it tested and did the tests show that it was made how they said

  • @trooperthatsall5250
    @trooperthatsall5250 3 роки тому +17

    cough cough - I was one of the techs who made the day/night sights for Challenger I & II - the sights were vastly improved by the selenium optics introduced in the later Challenger I (for testing) for refining for the 2. The tests included a static rig in a tower that we could view the occupants of passing cars on the motorway....this demo rig was a favourite of visitors/potential buyers. ~Trooper

  • @gravel_slope
    @gravel_slope 3 роки тому +15

    this is maby why they bought the Gripen, still felt salty and knew the feeling of losing even tough you have the best to give

    • @Gui1The
      @Gui1The 3 роки тому +5

      Actually we bought the gripen because SAAB was willing to change the development of the aircraft according to brazilian needs in fact a lot of the avionics and the HMD are brazilian, and we are building them here. And the Gripen F was mostly developed here, very useful in fact because we are also starting developing loyal wingman aircraft so a bi-seat fighter is very usefull as a herder aircraft.

    • @schaab7203
      @schaab7203 3 роки тому +2

      Its not salty, better mobility, a better price, and better negotiations

    • @jpdebhevga
      @jpdebhevga 3 роки тому

      Gripen was choosen because it was cheaper and SAAB offered to transfer the technology to brazilians, something BOEING couldn't do because of restrictions imposed bt the american congress. And also because the F-18 was far more expensive.

  • @afraniomartins763
    @afraniomartins763 3 роки тому +69

    There are good military equipaments from Brazil: Osório Tank, Astros II rockets and the military airplane KC-390 Embraer.

    • @Padtedesco
      @Padtedesco 3 роки тому +3

      Astros II is not that good.
      No precision capabilities, just saturation.

    • @pedrolucan4006
      @pedrolucan4006 3 роки тому +11

      @@Padtedesco He probably meant the Astros 2020

    • @Padtedesco
      @Padtedesco 3 роки тому

      @@pedrolucan4006 The unfinished variant than. Let's see

    • @schaab7203
      @schaab7203 3 роки тому +4

      @@Padtedesco what? Astros has other configs, search before saying incorrect things

    • @schaab7203
      @schaab7203 3 роки тому +8

      @@Padtedesco and if hes job is to saturate, that is ok, because that hes job

  • @Swordcrusher
    @Swordcrusher 3 роки тому +146

    Everyone:
    Brazil: Imma gonna destroy this man's whole career

    • @Zukefly
      @Zukefly 3 роки тому +13

      Plot twist, they're talking about themselves

    • @murilosilvavalenga5492
      @murilosilvavalenga5492 3 роки тому +3

      @@Zukefly That's insanely accurate tho

  • @mathewzebrowski7813
    @mathewzebrowski7813 3 роки тому +3

    Former Engesa engineer & product manager Reginaldo Bacchi (it might have been mr. Ricardo Furlan as well) said the cost of the project was nothing exorbitant at all, the company broke because of a LOT bad management.

  • @drinkyourwater1039
    @drinkyourwater1039 3 роки тому +33

    if ya ain't coming to Brazil...
    *Brazil will come to you*

  • @rickv9180
    @rickv9180 3 роки тому +137

    As usual, deals below the table always undermine "fair" competitions

    • @jesseeades1434
      @jesseeades1434 3 роки тому +2

      Under the table? The us refusing to arm the Saudis and the Saudis wanting a modular vehicle like the Abrams. Thats not quiet under the table.

    • @jesseeades1434
      @jesseeades1434 3 роки тому +5

      @AKUJIRULE you do understand what a modular vehicle is right? Why buy something that's a little better but has 10 times the maintenence times. Engine out? Abrams thats about 8 hours, non modular vehicles will be a week in a shop designed for it. Thats the reason the Abrams is considered one of the most useful and best MBTs in the world.

    • @mindtraveller100
      @mindtraveller100 3 роки тому

      @AKUJIRULE Better mileage, better gun...

    • @Ragedaonenlonely
      @Ragedaonenlonely 3 роки тому +2

      @@jesseeades1434 In most trials the Abrams loses to the Leopard in this very thing. It's not a selling point for it over others.

    • @jesseeades1434
      @jesseeades1434 3 роки тому

      @@Ragedaonenlonely and I never said it was. I said the modular capability of the Abrams was its selling point above the Osario.

  • @InfernusdomniAZ
    @InfernusdomniAZ 3 роки тому +21

    Sure it out performs the Abrahams but you didn't mention what the Osorio armor was. The Abrams has very thick chobam composite armor which is why it is seventy tons and offers pretty much the best crew protection of any tank. I'm certain the Osorio doesn't have chobam armor as it only weighs 45 tons. that was probably a bigger deciding factor on its adoption as crews of modern tanks take much longer to train and are therefore a bigger part of the investment of fielding a modern tank force. A loss of a fully trained crew is more expensive than replacing the tank.

    • @deboralorentz
      @deboralorentz 4 місяці тому

      You do'nt Lili Brasil
      🇧🇷

  • @doodskie999
    @doodskie999 3 роки тому +16

    As a tank enthusiast, I guess I am going to Brazil

  • @Del_S
    @Del_S 3 роки тому +24

    To paraphrase a comment on the TSR-2, tanks have four main attributes. Mobility, firepower, protection, and politics. The Osorio sadly only covered the first three.

    • @aelfwynn94
      @aelfwynn94 3 роки тому

      maybe only mobility, it used crappy steel as armor

    • @Del_S
      @Del_S 3 роки тому

      @@aelfwynn94 Was it intended to use that steel in production versions since presumably the tested ones were just prototypes?

    • @aelfwynn94
      @aelfwynn94 3 роки тому

      @@Del_S no idea, but they didn't have much experience in armour department

  • @diggydumbo9294
    @diggydumbo9294 3 роки тому +61

    Osório was too good for this world 😥🇧🇷

  • @UNSCSpartan043
    @UNSCSpartan043 3 роки тому +54

    3:48 Lmao somebody is getting a reaming after stuffing that barrel in the ground.

    • @mariano7699
      @mariano7699 3 роки тому +5

      The narrator :
      ...This allowed the tank accurately moving targets ...
      Me : Reaming infertile sand/soil targets ony ?

  • @eduardoaugusto8837
    @eduardoaugusto8837 3 роки тому +68

    Vai Brasil!!!!
    Btw this vehicle was passed to the devs a year or so ago

    • @LeiteArts10
      @LeiteArts10 3 роки тому

      e ainda nada, nem do arlindo

    • @jackjones9460
      @jackjones9460 3 роки тому

      Who are the devs who got the Osiris?

    • @eduardoaugusto8837
      @eduardoaugusto8837 3 роки тому

      @@LeiteArts10 na verdade quem cavou bem fundo todas as informações (pelo que eu li no forum) foi um jogador bem antigo do WT, ele até faz umas streams ou outras bem humildes, foi o Pieve, pode até pesquisar assim la nos forums do jogo, mas claro, o arlindo é quem tá por dentro lá das informações da gaijin, com certeza a gente receberia alguma informação, mas... infelizmente até agr nada mesmo :/

  • @KPunkZ
    @KPunkZ 3 роки тому +12

    I think we missed something crucial, the tank's survivability. That thing played a big role in modern days, with Abrams and their known "safety features".

  • @MC-td4ol
    @MC-td4ol 3 роки тому +171

    Maybe the Saudis saw the Abrams as a better "supported" tank (parts & repairs) than the Brazilian tank due to Brazil being somewhat unstable at times? Just asking.

    • @mattiOTX
      @mattiOTX 3 роки тому +5

      Probably, otherwise SA probably would have rolled with it.

    • @LucasSouza-jf1sm
      @LucasSouza-jf1sm 3 роки тому +36

      I'm Brazilian, the decision was strictly political, there is some material that points that way, sadly I wouldn't be avle to link it back to you due to it being in Portuguese

    • @attilaedem101
      @attilaedem101 3 роки тому +36

      Yeah, for a tank which used MANY imported parts "supporting" parts or repair is obviously the reason - its not like there are a bunch of other military vehicle using those exact same parts or those countries which import those part not knowing how to repair those parts.
      If you look at the Abrams and this tank then you would instantly realize how much the Abrams is beeing outclassed in this consideration. Hell, the Brasilian manufacturer could even sell the licensing of this tank and let other build this thing themself, thats how available almost ALL parts of it (with the exception of the hull and some other parts, which very likely made by the manufacturer himself).
      America is VERY pushy when it comes to their military crap - you have no idea how much their tried to sell us their second grade fighters with so many "confidential" stuff and forcing us to make american engineers handle all the repair and stuff like that because of said "confidential equipments" - while the swedish Grippen's did the job both way better AND had no such crap attached to them. Fortunately even a post-soviet Eastern European nation like Hungary is not THAT corrupt to take such a offer. And by extension i would also state to most of the time if a nation use american equipment its either because of corruption OR because of diplomatic strongarming by the US government itself.

    • @georgianbents
      @georgianbents 3 роки тому +21

      No, the US politicians (owner by the major global corporations), without a doubt, made a back room deal that included a lot more than just tanks, and told them what would be held back from the US if they didn't buy the abrams. You can't compete in legitimate deals with the world's #1 war mongerers in the mix.

    • @asaventurasderobson
      @asaventurasderobson 3 роки тому

      I saw this tank once, with a lot of other tanks in a museum. It is beautiful.

  • @bungwater1052
    @bungwater1052 3 роки тому +55

    When Brazil has had enough of your jokes

    • @heltong.1888
      @heltong.1888 3 роки тому +3

      "now, who live in Brazil?"

    • @choppergunner8650
      @choppergunner8650 3 роки тому

      Haha, if you don't want to come to Brazil, fine.
      BRAZIL WILL GET TO YOU :)

  • @va_rio845
    @va_rio845 2 роки тому +3

    Brazil: sun, samba, carnival, football, bunch of zoophilia movies and an homemade tank which is better than Abrams.
    What more could you want.

    • @indenominavel
      @indenominavel 2 роки тому +1

      Simplesmente nada, melhor pais de todos

  • @lucasmaciel5488
    @lucasmaciel5488 3 роки тому +45

    When Brazil comes to you:

  • @andrelunkes1038
    @andrelunkes1038 3 роки тому +11

    Fortunately there's still hope for a nacional tank, with the success of the guarani program made to replace the older EE-11, military personal are already looking for a substitute of the Leopard 1a5, in march last year the brazilian army posted a document for it's new tank, a family of vehicles, incluing a MMBT, IFV, APC, and a lot of support vehicles, all basead on the same chassi. There's a lot of interesst of the military in returning to the old days of glory in the armor department, KMW and BAE systems already offer help to do so. Anyway thanks for the excelent video Cone!

  • @eduardonogueira9319
    @eduardonogueira9319 2 роки тому +3

    Has a Brazilian I can say, worth it we did the best, but the world cut us, and yes we need this guy in world of wartanks and war thunder!

  • @captainopvious7498
    @captainopvious7498 3 роки тому +38

    That is actually a very depressing story.

  • @kauangarcia9236
    @kauangarcia9236 3 роки тому +114

    I would like to see brazilian tanks like: Osório, cascavel, tamoyo and Guarani in war thunder...

    • @cv1ra
      @cv1ra 3 роки тому +7

      Yep, maybe at world of tanks too.

    • @bernardosantos6814
      @bernardosantos6814 3 роки тому +1

      Guarani would be useless, or just if you want to put a 2010s vehicle in 2.0-3.0

    • @kauangarcia9236
      @kauangarcia9236 3 роки тому +4

      @@bernardosantos6814 tem um protótipo com um canhão de 105 ou 120mm não lembro qual

    • @bernardosantos6814
      @bernardosantos6814 3 роки тому +1

      @@kauangarcia9236 Não encontrei nada na internet sobre, apenas umas especulações sobre um Guarani 8x8 com canhão 105mm, mas que não tem nada confirmado e nem protótipo. Se puder mandar um link agradeço.

    • @kauangarcia9236
      @kauangarcia9236 3 роки тому

      @@bernardosantos6814 e que eu li um artigo já faz tempo, não tava lembrando direito ent deve estar no papel o projeto...

  • @feastguy101
    @feastguy101 3 роки тому +5

    Heartfelt F. I am devastated for my Brazilian brothers, deserved better than this.

  • @6jordana
    @6jordana 3 роки тому +5

    So the technical director of the company that made the tank heaped glowing praise on the firing trials. What a shocker.

  • @lucascastro9965
    @lucascastro9965 3 роки тому +37

    it was a big project that was lost due to the failed government of brazil, there were other big tank projects of engesa that also did not have continuity

    • @danielm.595
      @danielm.595 3 роки тому +7

      Unfortunately, yes, until we can find a fucking good government, maybe we can return to glory.

    • @ahmadariqdarwish2042
      @ahmadariqdarwish2042 3 роки тому +6

      Ehh, You dont know that American and German have made a tank that can beat abram but it was cancelled, brazil is not the only country with economy problem

    • @vinncentuntiedt5851
      @vinncentuntiedt5851 3 роки тому

      @@ahmadariqdarwish2042 are you talking of the mbt 70?

    • @shikikankillzone4239
      @shikikankillzone4239 3 роки тому +1

      _Coe Erwin, tranquila?_

    • @ahmadariqdarwish2042
      @ahmadariqdarwish2042 3 роки тому

      @@vinncentuntiedt5851 yah

  • @zehuskyguy
    @zehuskyguy 9 днів тому +1

    To be honest, Brazil should get a tech tree in War Thunder

  • @joshuacherian6718
    @joshuacherian6718 3 роки тому +5

    Brazil is a formidable manufacturing base... Much respect and love ..

  • @Shadow_Lunatale
    @Shadow_Lunatale 3 роки тому +14

    Really looking forward for the new forged for battle series. It hits exactly what makes me interested in tanks in the first place: the technology behind the machine and how you get the advantage on the battlefield.

  • @captainbuggernut9565
    @captainbuggernut9565 3 роки тому +5

    Its fairly easy to build one or two prototypes which outperform in service models. Challenger an evolution of Chieftain with MBT-80 technology from the 1970's. By the time this Brazilian tank would have been in full production the Challenger 2 would have been entering service.

  • @lucasmoreno2154
    @lucasmoreno2154 3 роки тому +7

    From what I know, one of the arguments that the americans used with the saudis is that their enemies were also using brazilian vehicles, such as the EE-9 Cascavel and the EE-11 Urutu

  • @flyingtank500
    @flyingtank500 3 роки тому +26

    Finally somenone is talking about the tank that would bring pride to my nation.

  • @calebe16
    @calebe16 3 роки тому +4

    I remember when I was a kid reading an interview on a military magazine here in Brazil talking about this event.
    It was a long time ago, but if I'm not wrong, it seems like the buying country had to buy from other 2 or 3 countries because of contracts between the countries already agreeing about some parts of the total purchase.

  • @Ie_Shima
    @Ie_Shima 3 роки тому +136

    So, according to one of the men who helped design the tank, nearly two decades after the trial was conducted and in a private interview, the Osorio did exceedingly well on two of the dozen or so tests (Shooting and what is most likely operational range) conducted over a period of two months. And, tellingly, there does not appear to be any publicly available documents of the rest of the test results, and the few articles about the tank that are available all use the same wordage and provide the same information, including the the quote provided by the Engessa employee that is referenced in the video.
    Now throw in the fact that Engessa went bankrupt in 1993, with the amount of money that they sank into the development of the Osorio being one of the primary reasons they had to shutter and layoff over 3000 employees. I can't imagine why the then technical director, a man deeply involved in the design of the money-pit that helped sink his company, would want to paint it in the best light as possible.
    Another telling point is that there does not appear to be any faults with the tank. Apparently the first testbed had some minor troubles with handling and suspension that were then immediately resolved in the second vehicle, but after that nothing. Everything beyond that is glowing praise of this tank. There is even one article that claims that the Osorio came across an Italian OF-40 MBT that was also being tested at the time (but not part of the competition for some reason) that was broken down dozens of miles in the desert, and that instead of abandoning the tank as the Italian crew wanted to do the Brazilian crew proceeded to tow the other tank back to the Saudi barracks before resuming the competition.
    Of course, this is conjecture. Where is the official report of the the tests conducted? Competition trials in other nations involving the same tanks in the same timeframe have been released, why hasn't this one? According to a single, heavily biased source the Osorio outperformed its three competitors on a single shooting trial, and apparently did very well on what can only be assumed to be an operational range trial with the results of the three competitors not provided. How well did the other three do in that range trial? Just how close did the other tanks make it to 400km, if the Osorio made it that far at all? And what were the results of the other tests? How did it handle rough terrain, how easy was it to repair, how difficult would it be to get spare parts for this Frankenstein's monster? Furthermore, are you seriously telling me that in a competition running from July to September there was only one shooting trial?
    What are the odds that this prototype tank, which does not appear to have any officially released documentation of the tests that it underwent, is not as good as it is claimed to be? What are the odds that the single readily available quotation ascribed to the tank, provided by a man deeply involved in the design of the vehicle that ruined his company, might just be disgruntled man inflating its amazingness twenty years after the fact? What are the odds that the official test results paint the Osorio in a much less favorable result?

    • @paulmcewen
      @paulmcewen 3 роки тому +12

      Anthony Rupp, well said sir, never a truer word spoken 👍

    • @lolman345_8
      @lolman345_8 3 роки тому +23

      Its the same concept with wundewaffe vehicles who's information is non-existent or heavily redacted, those who prefer it heavily embellish it. There are a myriad of pitfalls present in this comparison, most glaringly the range tests. This is a largely untested vehicle out-shooting some of the best FCS systems on tracks available at the time .
      Not to mention, one of the major parts of the Saudi Trials, hell, any NATO tank trial, is the armor evaluation, which seems completely absent from this documentation. I would not be surprised if a extremely light tank like this would fail this requirement spectacularly compared to the large modern composite arrays provided by the competition.

    • @makingtechsense126
      @makingtechsense126 3 роки тому +10

      Yeah, this video is an unfortunate byproduct of UA-cam's algorithmic requirements; click-bait over quality. The creator has an interesting story but in the interest of having a title that grabs the viewers attention he obviously lies and/or omits information. I mean seriously, a military selecting a tank has WAY more considerations that the handful of tests covered in this video. My first thought was regarding support logistics. OK, so a new-comer company designed a seemingly good tank, but can they support hundreds or thousands of them deployed around the world for decades? The answer was no.

    • @Ie_Shima
      @Ie_Shima 3 роки тому +14

      @@makingtechsense126 I wouldn't consider it lying or omitting information. He effectively covered everything that i could find on the tank after a few hours of searching and google translate from Bazillion Portuguese.
      The rest information on this tank is locked away by the Saudis, or left rotting in abandoned file boxes somewhere Brazil.
      The creator did the best with what is publicly available. Unfortunately, most of that is very sparse and heavily biased in favor of the Osorio.
      Edit: Thanks Cone!

    • @ConeOfArc
      @ConeOfArc  3 роки тому +27

      Like you said there's not much else out there for information. I had help from one of my mods who lives in Brazil and is fluent in portuguese as well but when it comes to some of the specifics there just isnt that much to find on the internet.
      I also am not trying to cover every single detail in the video since that would result in a very long video which would bore the vast majority of viewers. I seek to make the information as easy to consume as I can while also creating an interest in learning more for the viewer who can then look into the sources if he or she chooses to do so.

  • @i_run_on_headpats
    @i_run_on_headpats 3 роки тому +24

    Well Bois, we all know which is the best MBT in the world today, **drumrolling**
    The almighty,
    Bob Semple Tonk

  • @MiguelwilsonMarzalkoskikarpins
    @MiguelwilsonMarzalkoskikarpins 2 роки тому +7

    if I'm not mistaken, the US did not accept that a country that is not part of NATO would sell weapons to a NATO country (and what a Brazilian channel-Paulo Royal says)

    • @52down
      @52down 6 місяців тому

      Then explain it to me, why South Korean, Swedish, Israeli systems made it to NATO countries already? Heck, Embraer's military aircraft are present on European NATO skies, so please stop bullshit here

  • @fegenein862
    @fegenein862 3 роки тому +32

    RIP Engesa

  • @Green0-3
    @Green0-3 3 роки тому +12

    Indeed, the Osorio project was doomed from the start. The tank may be great, yes, but geopolitics are more important.

  • @twilightzoned
    @twilightzoned 3 роки тому +2

    I can give some suggestions as to why the Abrams was picked over the Osorio , as a former tanker. 1 the cost of the Abrams also includes maint and refit. Also ease of replacement parts if you need a new turret you lift one out and socket in a new one in a few hours. m1a1 is a module design. 2.The Saudi government prob did a credit back ground on the Brazilian company and found them near bankrupt. 3. non stabilized gun mount on the Osorio. 4.crew survivability was taken into account when the m1 was designed ammo safety was a high priority. just a few thoughts .

  • @titortinhas228
    @titortinhas228 3 роки тому +13

    I think Brazil should develop a new MBT to replace the modernized Leopard 1a5 because it has so much potential for that.

    • @stiurshy
      @stiurshy 3 роки тому +1

      they are already doing it

    • @heinzguderian628
      @heinzguderian628 3 роки тому +3

      sadly brazil cant produce a super tank like abrahans in its own land, actually, the osorio itself was made with parts from everywhere but brasil (ex: engine from germany/cannon from france)
      Brazil can actually produce a "light tank" or an armored car, but for something big it would take lots of money in investiment

    • @VikingHaag
      @VikingHaag 3 роки тому

      @@heinzguderian628 Secondly, with the infrastructure in Brazil you'd need to perform actual miracles to haul a 70 ton beast around. I'm pretty sure a single Abrams would bring down every bridge from where i live to Rio. if the Brazilian Army ever decides it needs a modern tanks it'll have to be locally produced unless you wanna rebuild our entire road and rail network from scratch.

  • @davidlarondelle2326
    @davidlarondelle2326 3 роки тому +66

    Hard to overcome MBT that has proved itself in battle for 10 years, made by a super power and continuously improving. I believe Brazil probably had a fantastic tank.

    • @cdgncgn
      @cdgncgn 3 роки тому +11

      us always sells its junk because it forces countries to buy or else

    • @benash2954
      @benash2954 3 роки тому +18

      Except that at the time the contract got cancelled the M1 had never been in battle. This was pre-gulf war 1.

    • @Shoelessjoe78
      @Shoelessjoe78 3 роки тому +1

      Interesting but hopelessly out of date.

    • @Chopstorm.
      @Chopstorm. 3 роки тому +7

      @@cdgncgn Sort of like how we're forcing Germany to buy the F-35 right? Oh wait.

    • @sowianskizonierz2693
      @sowianskizonierz2693 3 роки тому

      Proven itself to be a piece of shit

  • @rudolphantler6309
    @rudolphantler6309 3 роки тому +2

    Whoa this is genuinely heartbreaking.

  • @ausaskar
    @ausaskar 3 роки тому +22

    The results in the trials sound very impressive but I don't think protection was mentioned even once, which M1A1(export) probably had the edge in

    • @gabrielnascimento1021
      @gabrielnascimento1021 3 роки тому +1

      I think it was designed to receive adtional armor

    • @2ndsunrise_
      @2ndsunrise_ 3 роки тому

      Export m1s are kinda shit

    • @matthew4107
      @matthew4107 3 роки тому +1

      considering the Abrams has always had its design and armour based on the challenger one, but uses older chobram armour im going to take a guess and say the challenger owns that title, considering a challenger was shot by 72 RPG's and one vampyre AT missile, it drove back to base and was back in service the next day. whereas the abrams has been known ALOT to be put out of action in less than 10 projectiles.
      what i find interesting is the challenger holds the longest tank to tank shot in the world 1st and 2nd place with 3600m and 4700m but in this 'test' it seemed to fail at everything xD

    • @IzakSemrdoii
      @IzakSemrdoii 6 місяців тому

      ​@@matthew4107 challenger 2 was also penetrated by rpg29

  • @G__Brtz
    @G__Brtz 3 роки тому +81

    As a brasilian, I now feel very stronk
    But, knowing it's not on use, I'm foking angry

  • @FoxtrotYouniform
    @FoxtrotYouniform 3 роки тому +2

    I'm just gonna point out that there is SO much more to a weapon system than just the performance of the system itself - especially more so the more modern and capable the system. There's expected manufacturing and support availability, there's fuel and supplies/replacement part efficiencies, there's transportation and logistics issues, and a thousand other factors. Sometimes a simpler, less "effective" weapon is better because of all of the other factors that surround it, like with the Sherman which was designed around fighting a war halfway around the world from it's production base. Sometimes the specific measured performance of the weapon in testing belies operational issues, like with so many Soviet MBTs, which had terrible sustained crew performance issues due to their cramped and constrained interiors. And sometimes the people with the most guns make the rules. People involved in a project will always find reasons why their project was superior. Sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong. Tale as old as time.