In the years before the introduction of the new high speed trains, I used these coach services to travel around Spain. They were comfortable, reliable and really not so expensive given the distances involved. Certainly a lot more pleasant than the UK versions. It's true they may be losing their appeal on routes where high speed rail (together with cheaper fares available) but there will still be a lot of places where the bus is the only public transport way to travel.
As surprised as you this service exists, can’t work that one out at all, especially as RENFE are so good. Hmmm. Thanks for doing it though, and looked a comfortable ride. Ps love a Spanish coffee!
Great video as usual Scott. Just back from 5 weeks in Spain (took the car from Rosslare to Bilbao). Stunning country isn't it. Hats off for the way they've handled infrastructure in the last 30 to 40 years. Excellent roads, excellent fast rail and from what we could see, virtually no water running into the sea any more with most rivers now being called Rio Seco.
Madrid’s weather has been described as ‘nine months of winter and three months of hell.’ Not surprised it was cold. Many Brits think of all Spain being bathed in perpetual summer. It isn’t.
I'm on an 8 1/2 coach trip tonight from benidorm to malaga. So you are not the only nutcase travelling round Europe at the moment. Saves a nights accommodation though
I travelled on AVANZA last easter from Barcelona to Barbastro. The coach was well clean and nice. all seats had personal screens with maps and movies (only in Spanish tho) but it was really nice. Very friendly coach driver and very cheap, 12 pound return for two people (all in all) so very cheap.
Back in the 90.s i drove these long distance coach services across Iberia. Back then we carried freight, as well as passengers, that subsidised the bus fares. Our passenger levels varied enormously from zero to duplicate coaches running on many services. A problem that was increased as the ticket agents kept selling seats, right up to the moment before departure. I once literally carried two passengers from Barcelona to London, following the service car which was rammed full of people. Oh yes i then ran back empty to Paris from London, before picking up any other clients. Economic madness, road tolls ferry costs, two drivers each way. Mind boggling.
Scott, I live in Valencia and know the coach station very well indeed. I've used Avanza's main competitor Alsa half-a dozen times between Valencia and Barcelona and their coaches have always been full. However, there aren't rapid, cheap train services between the two cities which I guess explains why the coaches are always full, day and night. I've used Renfe/AVE and Ouigo (SNCF) between Valencia and Madrid and as you mentioned in one of your videos their services (and also those of Iryo the other low-cost train company) are both very rapid and very attractively priced. 🙏
Before high speed trains in Spain, intercity coaches were very popular and were often quicker and more reliable than trains; especially the case in Granada where I used to live - the train to Madrid took 8 hours while the Alsina Graells bus took about 5 and I think was cheaper. The drivers always seemed very safe, professional and smooth unlike a lot of car drivers, handling the twisty sections through Despenaperros with aplomb.
I think it make sense to keep alternative routes even if they might be inferior in every way. Say, when there are strikes on rail operators, or things like landslide on rails, or major power outage like what happened to SWR last December, caused the train service on certain route have to suspend until cleared.
Such big and well organised bus stations, compare that to Aberdeen dreadful modern cramped bus station, with not enough room, no waiting room, just a draughty corridor to stand in at Union Square, not even any covered areas for the Citylink coaches meaning passengers get soaked..
You're right. Public buses run like uk rail franchises, and if there are loses, those are funded by the goverment who is behind the line; long ones to central goverment, regional ones to their respective region goverment. For 2023 in long distance buses, a free scheme is in place for pepole doing 8 round trips in a quarter. Also, some services stop at places not served by train. And the classic rail line has been closed and shutted down. HSL only stops at Cuenca and Requena on the way to Valencia.
Despite the train being the better option that still looked like a pleasant journey. Compare and contrast the overall experience to the UK which is much more of a lottery.
Very strange - I could understand the bus service being provided if it served other places along the way - but then of course it would be even slower! The attraction of a slower coach vs train is usually the price. But this seems the other way round! As you say Scott, it cannot possibly last. I wonder how long it's been running?
I did the same route late 2022. Took the train as mentioned. Faster and cheaper. Did wonder if anyone took the bus route. As your video noted. Very few.
Well there’s many reasons why they still survive. First of all, some routes are subsidised, specially more local ones. Secondly, they operate many public bus networks (such as in Zaragoza, where they are pretty bad, with strikes being common and many times longer than advertised waiting times, but really cheap thanks to once again, new subsidies). The third reason is because of private contracts such as universities and schools, factories, and most importantly special events. I’ve only travelled on avanza in the two last ways and it’s not very impressive, but the longest trips I’ve done with them have been maybe 50km. And this bus is not even in such a bad condition compared to others I’ve taken in Spain, the few coaches I’ve taken from them have been in relatively good condition compared to other companies.
They also operante some locals along the A2 (to San Fernando de Henares, Madrid Airport and Torrejón de Ardoz) and the A6 corridor, providing short commuter services to Torrelodones, Las Matas and Pozuelo de Alarcón, also including others).
This could have done with a map to show me where Valencia was located. This is a general feeling in your videos. I wasn't paying stream the tension but I don't recall the time of departure and length of the trip and the time of arrival all the length of the stopover at the service station all the price of the coach trip although I do recall the price of the rail alternative being 25 probably euros I do enjoy watching your videos but they can be improved.
as the government, the only reason you would want to have a bus service on a route like this is to break the monopoly of the railways on that route... given how expensive the roads and mechanical support services are, I can see how making the service cheaper would be untenable. my guess is, being greener, railways are subsidized slightly more than the bus network, but both are economically helped/allowed to exist for varieties sake
Have you got much experience on travelling with Flix Bus ? I have been having a problem with Flix bus policy. I recently booked a return ticket from Leicester to London however 24 hrs before my travel date, I got a notification that my outbound trip had been cancelled and giving me an option to either rebook my outbound or get a refund. If I rebooked my outbound to the next available time of that day it would limit my time in London thus rendering it pointless in going to London. Although I was given the option of refund of my outbound trip, there was no refund option given for my inbound ???
It must be a cultural thing. I noticed that buses are far more popular than trains in the Iberian Peninsula, even though prices for rail where rail is an option is the same or less than 2 euro different.
I have lived in Spain for a long time, and have always just took a AlSA bus around to and from Madrid. I wonder how much that bus would be from Madrid to Valencia?
Think yourself lucky that the bus didn't use the 'Service Station' on the other side of the road, 'Meson Los Robles', quite possibly the worst place I've ever seen, and I've seen a few driving around Spain!
Perhaps those 4 passengers each way are all vloggers or bloggers, so basically, the company keeps in business on people checking out how the company is keeping in business.
Bus intercity routes in Spain are subsidized by the central government. Meanwhile intercity trains are not. Quite nonsensical in the routes parallel to HSL.
Must be losing a fortune with only four on board and my understanding in the UK is that you need 15to twenty on board to break even or make some money.
The Spanish transport infrastructure is amazing, new roads everywhere, a train network that's modern, efficient, cheap and extensive, Bus companies competing for business on most routes, cheap, modern and efficient , and you will find all of these services under used, empty motorways, intercity trains virtually empty and buses rarely full . When you compare these services to their U.K. Counterparts it's hard not wonder what's going on, given that the UKs EU contributions helped pay for it .
One of the many reasons I did not want to leave. Being over 60 years of age, I was able to obtain a renfe tarjeta dorado which gave a discount on rail fares on all classes of train. Saw a lot of Spain, all by rail. Yes, I really miss that country.
And Spanish contributions helped pay for things in the UK. Grants, subsidies and funding for various things resulted in most monies going back to a country but no one ever sat down and explained that to people-Structural Fund, Social Fund, Agricultural subsidy etc etc all targeted at certain projects. Maybe now the difference is starting to show and with the exception of the Structural Fund which is to help countries whose GDP is less than 75% of the EU average, the UK got as much per capita as anyone else.
Spain had never been a net contributor to the EU whilst the UK were members . Your claim about the UK getting as much per capita back as everyone else is a down right lie . The UK recouped about 65% of its contributions, Spain received over 130% of its contributions. I didn’t mean to start a row here about Brexit , I just made an observation based on my experiences of travelling in Spain and the UK . And my point stands, the infrastructure in Spain is far superior to the UK networks, it is new, up to date and in Part paid for with British contributions .....and that’s a fact .
Poland is the other extreme. Trains where stand-up tickets are often sold to meet demand, and buses at 90% capacity. There is probably demand for twice as many trains as operating today. What I haven't seen anywhere else is that public tenders in Poland have a strict maximum budget limit, and if no bidder bids within the limit, the tender goes unfilled. This means that a shortage of rolling stock and unfilled bus service tenders are common problems.
Why are you having to wear a mask these days? I was on a regional bus and national train in Spain and there was no mandate to wear a mask. Of course if it's for your own mental comfort I understand. Profit is built in with subsidy from the government to maintain these routes.
@@rjs_698 I was on lots of different public transportation last year in the Barcelona area and nobody was wearing any masks! I had no idea it was still mandatory
![16 HOURS | 7 LEGS - Paisley to Bohemian Switzerland [cz] using Ryanair, Czech Railways and ferry.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M1lxIqX0STs/mqdefault.jpg)
![16 HOURS | 7 LEGS - Paisley to Bohemian Switzerland [cz] using Ryanair, Czech Railways and ferry.](/img/tr.png)
In the years before the introduction of the new high speed trains, I used these coach services to travel around Spain. They were comfortable, reliable and really not so expensive given the distances involved. Certainly a lot more pleasant than the UK versions. It's true they may be losing their appeal on routes where high speed rail (together with cheaper fares available) but there will still be a lot of places where the bus is the only public transport way to travel.
More pickup points.
As surprised as you this service exists, can’t work that one out at all, especially as RENFE are so good. Hmmm. Thanks for doing it though, and looked a comfortable ride. Ps love a Spanish coffee!
Great video as usual Scott. Just back from 5 weeks in Spain (took the car from Rosslare to Bilbao). Stunning country isn't it. Hats off for the way they've handled infrastructure in the last 30 to 40 years. Excellent roads, excellent fast rail and from what we could see, virtually no water running into the sea any more with most rivers now being called Rio Seco.
Very different on e.g Malaga to Algeciras mainly due to poor rail connection along Costa del Sol. Bus services often full.
Madrid’s weather has been described as ‘nine months of winter and three months of hell.’ Not surprised it was cold. Many Brits think of all Spain being bathed in perpetual summer. It isn’t.
I'm on an 8 1/2 coach trip tonight from benidorm to malaga. So you are not the only nutcase travelling round Europe at the moment. Saves a nights accommodation though
And you'll wake up with sorre bones 😃
Thanks scott it got me scratching my head too mabey it's just a quiet period time of year I have no idea enjoyed anyway see you next time
I travelled on AVANZA last easter from Barcelona to Barbastro. The coach was well clean and nice. all seats had personal screens with maps and movies (only in Spanish tho) but it was really nice. Very friendly coach driver and very cheap, 12 pound return for two people (all in all) so very cheap.
Barbastro mola
Back in the 90.s i drove these long distance coach services across Iberia. Back then we carried freight, as well as passengers, that subsidised the bus fares. Our passenger levels varied enormously from zero to duplicate coaches running on many services. A problem that was increased as the ticket agents kept selling seats, right up to the moment before departure. I once literally carried two passengers from Barcelona to London, following the service car which was rammed full of people. Oh yes i then ran back empty to Paris from London, before picking up any other clients. Economic madness, road tolls ferry costs, two drivers each way. Mind boggling.
This gives me memories when I went to Spain in June. Love your videos Scott! Keep up the good work!
Loved the music.
Scott, I live in Valencia and know the coach station very well indeed. I've used Avanza's main competitor Alsa half-a dozen times between Valencia and Barcelona and their coaches have always been full. However, there aren't rapid, cheap train services between the two cities which I guess explains why the coaches are always full, day and night. I've used Renfe/AVE and Ouigo (SNCF) between Valencia and Madrid and as you mentioned in one of your videos their services (and also those of Iryo the other low-cost train company) are both very rapid and very attractively priced. 🙏
Before high speed trains in Spain, intercity coaches were very popular and were often quicker and more reliable than trains; especially the case in Granada where I used to live - the train to Madrid took 8 hours while the Alsina Graells bus took about 5 and I think was cheaper. The drivers always seemed very safe, professional and smooth unlike a lot of car drivers, handling the twisty sections through Despenaperros with aplomb.
I think it make sense to keep alternative routes even if they might be inferior in every way.
Say, when there are strikes on rail operators, or things like landslide on rails, or major power outage like what happened to SWR last December, caused the train service on certain route have to suspend until cleared.
They might make their money during the spring and summer time! And trains more expensive during peak season!
The rest stop at Area 175 reminded me of the scene from Bagdad Cafe film featuring song 'I'm calling you'.
Such big and well organised bus stations, compare that to Aberdeen dreadful modern cramped bus station, with not enough room, no waiting room, just a draughty corridor to stand in at Union Square, not even any covered areas for the Citylink coaches meaning passengers get soaked..
Went from Bilbao to San Sebastian the other day on Alsa night smooth journey in their premium line.
Oh my. Makes me wonder. Good eye. Interesting. Thanks Scott.
You're right. Public buses run like uk rail franchises, and if there are loses, those are funded by the goverment who is behind the line; long ones to central goverment, regional ones to their respective region goverment.
For 2023 in long distance buses, a free scheme is in place for pepole doing 8 round trips in a quarter.
Also, some services stop at places not served by train. And the classic rail line has been closed and shutted down. HSL only stops at Cuenca and Requena on the way to Valencia.
Great vlog again but just a pity there out of sinc with your earlier vlogs of Valencia
I noticed that there was a flixbus service to Rennes in France. Future video perhaps?
Despite the train being the better option that still looked like a pleasant journey.
Compare and contrast the overall experience to the UK which is much more of a lottery.
Very strange - I could understand the bus service being provided if it served other places along the way - but then of course it would be even slower! The attraction of a slower coach vs train is usually the price. But this seems the other way round! As you say Scott, it cannot possibly last. I wonder how long it's been running?
That coach I recon is either a Scania Iruzar I6 or a Volvo Ceatano Leavante
Great video Scott
I did the same route late 2022. Took the train as mentioned. Faster and cheaper. Did wonder if anyone took the bus route. As your video noted. Very few.
Scott like your video 👍👍
Well there’s many reasons why they still survive. First of all, some routes are subsidised, specially more local ones. Secondly, they operate many public bus networks (such as in Zaragoza, where they are pretty bad, with strikes being common and many times longer than advertised waiting times, but really cheap thanks to once again, new subsidies). The third reason is because of private contracts such as universities and schools, factories, and most importantly special events. I’ve only travelled on avanza in the two last ways and it’s not very impressive, but the longest trips I’ve done with them have been maybe 50km. And this bus is not even in such a bad condition compared to others I’ve taken in Spain, the few coaches I’ve taken from them have been in relatively good condition compared to other companies.
They also operante some locals along the A2 (to San Fernando de Henares, Madrid Airport and Torrejón de Ardoz) and the A6 corridor, providing short commuter services to Torrelodones, Las Matas and Pozuelo de Alarcón, also including others).
Avanza es un punto cancer 8.4 euros de Huesca a Zaragoza en una línea subsidiada
Damn shame they didn’t stop 30 minutes earlier. A fantastic road side restaurant Venta San José. Just reviewed on the Spain Speaks UA-cam channel
This could have done with a map to show me where Valencia was located.
This is a general feeling in your videos.
I wasn't paying stream the tension but I don't recall the time of departure and length of the trip and the time of arrival all the length of the stopover at the service station all the price of the coach trip although I do recall the price of the rail alternative being 25 probably euros
I do enjoy watching your videos but they can be improved.
A slight upgrade than london Victoria coach station!
Never! Victoria Coach Station is a very fine example of 1932's Art Deco. (...but I do agree that it is more spacious).
Fascinating fact about the Osborne bulls in Spain but don't recommend the brandy....Madrid is higher I believe hence the temp change.
try santander to benidorm by bue change in zaragoza
Next time take one of the many new high speed services from Madrid-Valencia-Madrid, AVE/AVLO/OUIGO/IRYO door to door in a lIttle over 90 minutes
as the government, the only reason you would want to have a bus service on a route like this is to break the monopoly of the railways on that route... given how expensive the roads and mechanical support services are, I can see how making the service cheaper would be untenable.
my guess is, being greener, railways are subsidized slightly more than the bus network, but both are economically helped/allowed to exist for varieties sake
i only take bus here to small towns with no train
With just four people onboard it would’ve been more economical to run a transit van!
has to be a subsidised service
They survive by charging a premium for their service then hoping enough UA-camrs review their service! 😂
Some time of day and length of journey time stamps would have been useful - was that sunrise or sunset sun at the stop?
It was sunset, because at the end of the video I was in complete darkness as we drove into Valencia.
I'm surprised they are not out of business.
Have you got much experience on travelling with Flix Bus ?
I have been having a problem with Flix bus policy. I recently booked a return ticket from Leicester to London however 24 hrs before my travel date, I got a notification that my outbound trip had been cancelled and giving me an option to either rebook my outbound or get a refund. If I rebooked my outbound to the next available time of that day it would limit my time in London thus rendering it pointless in going to London.
Although I was given the option of refund of my outbound trip, there was no refund option given for my inbound ???
It must be a cultural thing. I noticed that buses are far more popular than trains in the Iberian Peninsula, even though prices for rail where rail is an option is the same or less than 2 euro different.
I have been some coach trips that are so slow and some that aren’t as clean. I have had the worst experience in my whole life.
Have an Agua de Valencia to take the sting out of the trip..
I have lived in Spain for a long time, and have always just took a AlSA bus around to and from Madrid. I wonder how much that bus would be from Madrid to Valencia?
Think yourself lucky that the bus didn't use the 'Service Station' on the other side of the road, 'Meson Los Robles', quite possibly the worst place I've ever seen, and I've seen a few driving around Spain!
Probably Euro funded subsidy by Brussels ?
Perhaps those 4 passengers each way are all vloggers or bloggers, so basically, the company keeps in business on people checking out how the company is keeping in business.
Bus intercity routes in Spain are subsidized by the central government. Meanwhile intercity trains are not. Quite nonsensical in the routes parallel to HSL.
Sounds like you also had to suffer the driver's "taste" in music, so the train gained even more of a thumbs up.
Yes, I have memories of drivers playing country & western music for 8 hours on coaches (this was pre-noise cancelling headphones era).
Must be losing a fortune with only four on board and my understanding in the UK is that you need 15to twenty on board to break even or make some money.
This trips are subsidised by the government, because otherwise they will not exist anymore 😑
A bit like ferry services in Western Scotland.
🙏 'promo sm'
The Spanish transport infrastructure is amazing, new roads everywhere, a train network that's modern, efficient, cheap and extensive, Bus companies competing for business on most routes, cheap, modern and efficient , and you will find all of these services under used, empty motorways, intercity trains virtually empty and buses rarely full .
When you compare these services to their U.K. Counterparts it's hard not wonder what's going on, given that the UKs EU contributions helped pay for it .
This is why we left the EU.
One of the many reasons I did not want to leave. Being over 60 years of age, I was able to obtain a renfe tarjeta dorado which gave a discount on rail fares on all classes of train. Saw a lot of Spain, all by rail. Yes, I really miss that country.
And Spanish contributions helped pay for things in the UK. Grants, subsidies and funding for various things resulted in most monies going back to a country but no one ever sat down and explained that to people-Structural Fund, Social Fund, Agricultural subsidy etc etc all targeted at certain projects. Maybe now the difference is starting to show and with the exception of the Structural Fund which is to help countries whose GDP is less than 75% of the EU average, the UK got as much per capita as anyone else.
Spain had never been a net contributor to the EU whilst the UK were members . Your claim about the UK getting as much per capita back as everyone else is a down right lie . The UK recouped about 65% of its contributions, Spain received over 130% of its contributions. I didn’t mean to start a row here about Brexit , I just made an observation based on my experiences of travelling in Spain and the UK . And my point stands, the infrastructure in Spain is far superior to the UK networks, it is new, up to date and in Part paid for with British contributions .....and that’s a fact .
Poland is the other extreme. Trains where stand-up tickets are often sold to meet demand, and buses at 90% capacity. There is probably demand for twice as many trains as operating today. What I haven't seen anywhere else is that public tenders in Poland have a strict maximum budget limit, and if no bidder bids within the limit, the tender goes unfilled. This means that a shortage of rolling stock and unfilled bus service tenders are common problems.
Doesn't look all that bad... I wonder why Avanza got so many negative reviews?
Aren't there special deals on Spanish trains ? They seem to be copying the Germans with encouraging public transport .
The train is faster and more comfortable so why would you take the bus that is slower and costs more,this does not even make sense.
Sorry Scott but not one of your best videos..what was the actual point of doing it..?
Scott loves to punish himself and entertain us. That's the point.😊
First 🙂
Its a front for money laundering…..
Why are you having to wear a mask these days? I was on a regional bus and national train in Spain and there was no mandate to wear a mask. Of course if it's for your own mental comfort I understand. Profit is built in with subsidy from the government to maintain these routes.
Mask wearing on public transport in Spain ceased to be compulsory at the beginning of February 2023. This video was probably filmed before then.
@@rjs_698 I was on lots of different public transportation last year in the Barcelona area and nobody was wearing any masks! I had no idea it was still mandatory
@@samcadwallader2899 It was mandatory, at least in Madid, until 5 weeks ago.