My sim consists of a Logitech G923 wheel and pedals, gear lever and simple desk and gaming seat that I have to secure to the wardrobe with a piano stool and a guitar speaker for it not to move (it still does a little when I push the brake). I suppose it could fall a little short of F1 teams' expectations...
My room mate blows next to me when there's wind and spits when it's raining. He also kicks me depending on the crash. Much more real phyisics than those "top" simulators.
@unklesuga1644 thats why I am saying that. Cadillac knew for awhile they were gonna be 11th team. As soon as Micheal Andretti stepped down that was what F1 wanted.
@blade0667 i do actually forget about their team🤣 you're right. IF Ferrari is using that Simulator and Ferrari are supplying Cadillac's engines it makes sense
@@naplesbluesrt i do have a proper rig but i can't use it as i kept stubbing my toe when i got out of bed due to how close my desk is to my bed and just how big the rig is lol
Another reason to become a billionaire.... Get 20 of the top of the range ones so you can race the full grid with your mates..... oh wait, billionaires don't really have mates
We used simulators extensively for aircraft testing. It is an invaluable tool for aircraft development. I’m surprised to hear of latency issues on F1 simulators as that has a relatively easy solution.
Wouldn’t electromagnets be able to solve the g-force problem? It could be dangerous and would require a lot of safety measures. 360 electromagnets would be able to impart forces on a driver suit/helmet lined with a responsive material (some metal). Pull on driver’s hands/body head when accelerating and cornering, repulse during deceleration.
Interesting idea but, size and weight would probably rule it out. Not to mention the effects on other metalic and electronics within the rig. Tensioners on the belts would cover deceleration and maybe some lateral Gs on the driver. Maybe a wearable harness with additional straps on the body and helmet could come close.
You may be able to simulate the force outside of human body but the strain you'll feel in your muscle the movement of your internal organs can't be simulate.
Safety measures would be pretty easy. You would be able to know how the amperage to magnetic force curve is sloped and build your "g force" models around that. By knowing that, you also know the maximum amperage the system will pull to achieve a specific setting, and so could use fast blow fuses for a setting a few amps higher than the absolute maximum allowed. While the electromagnets would have a large inrush current, when powering the system on you can build an energizing system that does that slowly so not to blow the safety fuses, and once the electronics are all powered up and a base level of magnetic flux has reached saturation the actual ramping up to a higher specific level should not have anywhere near the initial system power-on inrush current, so quick blow fuses should be perfectly viable I think the main detractor is that a sufficiently usable metal lining a vest, helmet, and gloves would be far too much weight and be too heavy and feel so different from a normal racing suit that it might make the system invalid.
Can we just appreciate that in 2024 we have simulators that can replicate how an F1 car actually feels to drive, we also have self driving vehicles on the road and we also have people that still think the earth is flat. Engineers moving things forward.
Recall the natural resolution of the human eye is about 31.5K, so once screens get to 32K, it'd be like watching out a window or with depth of view like staring into another room much like a mirror. Imagine a sim race in that.
I wonder if parallelization could be used to pre-compute all the predicted values that can happen on the next frame or frames... I mean, if the value of something is '5' in this frame it won't be 50 000 the next frame. It will be 6 or 8. Add 16k predictions matrix and you can pick the solution from a storage. Kind of what our brains do all the time... Computing something takes time but if we can solve all possible predictions of what is going to happen next then you only need to execute.
You can't 1-1 simulate the g-forces the inner ear feels in a sustained way, but you can do it to some parts of the body. Eg your skin won't know the difference between being pressed into the side or your seat in a corner vs your seat pressing into your skin in a corner. Some sim rigs use this trick to simulate the sustained Gs with movable panels in the seat. Don't think it's 100%, but it does sound like 1 more level of immersion where you could quite literally be driving by the seat of your pants ;)
6 годин тому
Exceptional performance is usually an exponential cost.
I was using 6 DOF, but I think there is not enough return of investment in comparison to a good tactile feedback setup with some Buttkickers. The latency is always smaller because actuators are actually very slow with their 250 mm per second, which is 1 km/h. And having individual bass-transducers for each tyre plus engine-, ABS- gearbox- etc. effects is nothing special. With SimHub you can run a dozen different channels and I'm running tactile feedback (up to 6 shakers) since 2016. After trying a dozen motion-systems in different price-ranges, I was quite unimpressed. Tactile certainly beats motion if it isn't combined.
I kinda expected the bigger rigs to use some sort of 6 axis system to use gravity to simulate G-force, though i suppose when the cars can pull 6G maybe that is less useful.
Do these simulators have custom software for graphics and track specs? Did they laser scan all the tracks themselves and create their own sim software or are they using 3rd party data? Super curious!
awesome video topic, enjoyed it a lot! drinking some more water before recording can make you mouth sound a lot less sticky, something to look at next time ^^
Hi Scott, excellent video. I have a basic motion simulator from Pro Simu. It has 2 actuators in the front to simulate heave, roll, bumps ect and a traction loss actuator at the rear. It would be great to know how these 4000 euro sims stack up to the ultra pro ones you tested.
Go on do a raffle for someone in your online community to win an 2 .5 million pound sim rig 😮 You know you want to 😁 Things bigger than most flats around here
Your ideas are always so original and interesting. Thank you for your hard work!Thank you for your creativity and efforts. Your videos are always a joy to watch.❗️🐍👋
The simulator platform knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is Greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The motion control subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the platform from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
I always wonder about software ("game") they use. What is it ? Does everybody has some specific in-house developed thing ? Or ir there some off-the-shelf solution ? How does it compare to something like Asseto-Corsa. As i know it does take some shortcuts with its simulation.
Hi Dude! The Software that is used in the Video is rFactor Pro I instantly recognized it. It is basically rFactor 2 but more "enterprise-ish" with more specific features for these use cases and more telemetry output and things like that. So the next nearest thing would be rFactor 2 because they share the same physics engine from what I understand. Another software that is used by Mercedes for example is Panthera from Cruden.
0:29 F1 teams have physical rolling tracks/roads of _this_ scale?.. Is that what I just saw here?!... Edit: Oh, hahaha, on me! The key words come a little later.... 1:40 😅
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Wait. Is this the british UA-camr/ Racing driver that holds the Lap record at brands hatch???
Correct sir.
Why would you write racing driver and lap with capital letters, but British and Brands Hatch in lowercase?
@@jansz1589priorities, my Friend. also i think it Causes issues in the truly british. i kNow it buggEd me.
Still holding onto that one.... just.
how did you know that?! he never mentions it 🤣
My sim consists of a Logitech G923 wheel and pedals, gear lever and simple desk and gaming seat that I have to secure to the wardrobe with a piano stool and a guitar speaker for it not to move (it still does a little when I push the brake). I suppose it could fall a little short of F1 teams' expectations...
you could still perfectly learn to drive, and if serious enough, win races of drift events in real life! try it
I bet this pro sim is still more quiet than g923 :D Mine sounds like a drill
i thought i was the only one who put my amp behind my chair😭
My room mate blows next to me when there's wind and spits when it's raining. He also kicks me depending on the crash. Much more real phyisics than those "top" simulators.
Peak Immersive experience
0:34 POLAND POWER! 💪💪🇵🇱🇵🇱
The other team that he cannot mention is Cadillac. By the way
This was probably made before the Cadillac announcement
@unklesuga1644 thats why I am saying that. Cadillac knew for awhile they were gonna be 11th team. As soon as Micheal Andretti stepped down that was what F1 wanted.
Or Audi
@blade0667 i do actually forget about their team🤣 you're right. IF Ferrari is using that Simulator and Ferrari are supplying Cadillac's engines it makes sense
it has to be Haas
better then my sim rig thats for sure
God could you imagine the grief you'd get from the wife? I have a hard enough time convincing mine to deal with my simple desk + chair setup
@@naplesbluesrt i do have a proper rig but i can't use it as i kept stubbing my toe when i got out of bed due to how close my desk is to my bed and just how big the rig is lol
0:33 Kubica mentioned RAAAHHHH
Another reason to become a billionaire.... Get 20 of the top of the range ones so you can race the full grid with your mates..... oh wait, billionaires don't really have mates
You'd rather buy a bunch of sims than actual cars?
People seem perplexed that theres so much trust in simulators but NASA used various analog simulators for the Apollo missions in the 60's.
AWESOME! Great video guys :)
When you guys collabing?!
We used simulators extensively for aircraft testing. It is an invaluable tool for aircraft development. I’m surprised to hear of latency issues on F1 simulators as that has a relatively easy solution.
What's the solution, and why haven't they applied it to what you saw in the video?
@@procatprocat9647 the answer is probably money.
Donington on your sim. Love that track
I bet Mazepin could find a way to make one of these spin around, or even on his best day crash and break the whole sim.
What is he doing nowadays?
@@Moonfaster fighting with the Russian army in Ukraine.
Maz once crashed a bike-hometrainer...
I was literally asking someone about this yesterday, and you go and make a video just for me to answer my curiosity. You are so generous! :)
bot
@danieldorn9989 bleep bloop
Wouldn’t electromagnets be able to solve the g-force problem? It could be dangerous and would require a lot of safety measures.
360 electromagnets would be able to impart forces on a driver suit/helmet lined with a responsive material (some metal). Pull on driver’s hands/body head when accelerating and cornering, repulse during deceleration.
Interesting idea but, size and weight would probably rule it out. Not to mention the effects on other metalic and electronics within the rig.
Tensioners on the belts would cover deceleration and maybe some lateral Gs on the driver. Maybe a wearable harness with additional straps on the body and helmet could come close.
You may be able to simulate the force outside of human body but the strain you'll feel in your muscle the movement of your internal organs can't be simulate.
Safety measures would be pretty easy. You would be able to know how the amperage to magnetic force curve is sloped and build your "g force" models around that. By knowing that, you also know the maximum amperage the system will pull to achieve a specific setting, and so could use fast blow fuses for a setting a few amps higher than the absolute maximum allowed. While the electromagnets would have a large inrush current, when powering the system on you can build an energizing system that does that slowly so not to blow the safety fuses, and once the electronics are all powered up and a base level of magnetic flux has reached saturation the actual ramping up to a higher specific level should not have anywhere near the initial system power-on inrush current, so quick blow fuses should be perfectly viable
I think the main detractor is that a sufficiently usable metal lining a vest, helmet, and gloves would be far too much weight and be too heavy and feel so different from a normal racing suit that it might make the system invalid.
@@LordSaliss Could set the sim up with full 3D movement in a [large] globe to use gravity to help with the Gs
Gotta love an idea so bizarre and outside the box. Thats where innovation begins…
I was waiting for someone like you to try a real F1 factory team simulator!! I’m so excited to watch it
Really nice video! So interesting to have a focus on such a topic, with a good mix of facts, interviews and visuals. Keep it up!
0:35 GIGAKUBICAAAAA \o/
Great content, appreciate it!
Best competent video about pro simulators available public.
Now that was interesting! The way they simulate acceleration in a limited space by running it through a high-pass filter is so simple and elegant.👍
If this 8mil is not going from the performance budget the F1 team has, then it is absolutely worth it.
Can we just appreciate that in 2024 we have simulators that can replicate how an F1 car actually feels to drive, we also have self driving vehicles on the road and we also have people that still think the earth is flat. Engineers moving things forward.
I really enjoy being educated about these subjects. Thank You!
The fact that F1 cars don't bank saves a lot of money in the sim. I mean SIMming Talladega would be rough.
I think they could add wires to the helmet to drag your head around to simulate g=force.
Recall the natural resolution of the human eye is about 31.5K, so once screens get to 32K, it'd be like watching out a window or with depth of view like staring into another room much like a mirror. Imagine a sim race in that.
a part from Pete Windsor, nobody can touch Scott's content quality on motorsports on yt
I wonder if parallelization could be used to pre-compute all the predicted values that can happen on the next frame or frames... I mean, if the value of something is '5' in this frame it won't be 50 000 the next frame. It will be 6 or 8. Add 16k predictions matrix and you can pick the solution from a storage. Kind of what our brains do all the time... Computing something takes time but if we can solve all possible predictions of what is going to happen next then you only need to execute.
Simulator? Life already IS a simulation. This is a simulator inside a simulator.
In theory easy to simulate g-forces. But the entire thing inside a centrifuge, like used for g simulation for fighter pilots.
You can't 1-1 simulate the g-forces the inner ear feels in a sustained way, but you can do it to some parts of the body. Eg your skin won't know the difference between being pressed into the side or your seat in a corner vs your seat pressing into your skin in a corner. Some sim rigs use this trick to simulate the sustained Gs with movable panels in the seat. Don't think it's 100%, but it does sound like 1 more level of immersion where you could quite literally be driving by the seat of your pants ;)
Exceptional performance is usually an exponential cost.
Virtual Spa versus the Real one? Cool concept to test on any track.
9:47 Or a human centrifuge with a swiveling basket and rapid spinup/spindown could do it. :)
I was using 6 DOF, but I think there is not enough return of investment in comparison to a good tactile feedback setup with some Buttkickers. The latency is always smaller because actuators are actually very slow with their 250 mm per second, which is 1 km/h. And having individual bass-transducers for each tyre plus engine-, ABS- gearbox- etc. effects is nothing special. With SimHub you can run a dozen different channels and I'm running tactile feedback (up to 6 shakers) since 2016. After trying a dozen motion-systems in different price-ranges, I was quite unimpressed. Tactile certainly beats motion if it isn't combined.
I kinda expected the bigger rigs to use some sort of 6 axis system to use gravity to simulate G-force, though i suppose when the cars can pull 6G maybe that is less useful.
Do these simulators have custom software for graphics and track specs? Did they laser scan all the tracks themselves and create their own sim software or are they using 3rd party data? Super curious!
“Can’t name the other team” shows third person view of a redbull😅
Wow. That is amazing tech. I need one
Is the cost of the simulator included in the team's cost cap? If a team cannot afford the best simulator, is that an unfair advantage?
mmh, i felt bad spening 800$ on my PC.
100 quid says he sat down and said "Fire up brands hatch thanks"
awesome video topic, enjoyed it a lot!
drinking some more water before recording can make you mouth sound a lot less sticky, something to look at next time ^^
Haas, the other f1 team is haas
haas does not have a sim. they recently gained access to toyota's sim i think
Prolly Cadillac
They use old Ferrari sim
This puts my moza setup to shame…. 😭 the only thing I have that they don’t is a fan on the base to simulate wind 😂.
I think I know what I want for Christmas...
If I had the money, I'd buy one.
I need this DMG-1 and Olympic level Proto Shoes test Treadmills for my private gym
Couple steps above Cruden. ❤
having that go-pro there isnt good for aerodynamics my brother
I mean with limited real world testing the confidence is kind of relative. You actually have to trust it at some point.
2nd f1 team use this supplier simulator ( used for 2025 car) is McLaren F1 team as per my knowledge. i guess.
Is it so they can assess who is best, then ignore the results and promote Lawson? They should bin em, meritocracy is finished.
😂
Very true…. Face has got to fit firstly !
I think it’s a poisoned seat any way so he’s dodged a bullet
I wonder if "pogo-ing" story of f1 cars a while ago weren't because of problems/limitations in that simulating to manufacturing workflow
The real world simulation is crazy
Great interesting video...do other race series teams use these as well.. like IMSA/WEC endurance racing teams??
Yes. Peugeot just put out a video of Theo Pourchaire in their simulator the other day. Even F2/F3 teams have simulators (though not as advanced).
0:35 POLSKA GUROM
Hi Scott, excellent video. I have a basic motion simulator from Pro Simu. It has 2 actuators in the front to simulate heave, roll, bumps ect and a traction loss actuator at the rear. It would be great to know how these 4000 euro sims stack up to the ultra pro ones you tested.
The only team the simulator for parts doesn’t work for is Aston martib
hmmm...slightly better than my dualsense gamepad
Might as well bring back real testing if this is what F1 teams are doing now to circumvent the rules.
Lewis Hamilton has said he don't like the simulator and it don't give him anything. I wonder if that might be due to the latency?
imagine playing F1 24 on that bad boy 🤣 i swear on me mum i'd totally do it if i had the money
Seria gracioso que el chasis del simulador tuviera sponsors.
But, can it run on iRacing, let alone online?
optimum's next sim setup
Can they not like set up a helmet attached to weight and depending how hard you hit the brakes gives you the g force needed?
One thing they cant replicate is the wind and turbulence.
At least not 100%
“Puts fan on dash board.” What’s next?
@@dbzcollector9963 Watering can hanging above the fan for wet weather
You can say Cadillac as the other team it's fine
They spend all this money just for IRacing to look a hell of a lot better.
would be interesting to know about their software they use
Somethings wrong with the Aston Martin sim
because you can die thousands times in the same corner of the simulator for 0.01s time improvement, but not in real track
Comparing it to a Fanatec. Comon man, get a proper DD system.
looks like I'll need a bigger bedroom...
Your channel is a real treasure trove of knowledge and entertainment. Continue to delight us with your talent and professionalism!🐣🤣🚌
0:20 Apex GP ;)?
Sustainable g force in a simulator is done by centrifugal force. If you need help developing this contact me.
Go on do a raffle for someone in your online community to win an 2
.5 million pound sim rig 😮
You know you want to 😁
Things bigger than most flats around here
Your ideas are always so original and interesting. Thank you for your hard work!Thank you for your creativity and efforts. Your videos are always a joy to watch.❗️🐍👋
My cardboard box and Wii controllers just aint gonna cut it no more no more!
Hang in there 😊
0:21 prolly caddilac or audi lmao
How can he not have a VRS setup in his office?
Ok but Nikhil Garrett what in the indo western combination name is that!!! 😄😄😄😄😄
What are they using a self-made sim ?, or is it something like ac ?
Rumor is that it is Rfactor Pro, the one unavailable to the public
The simulator platform knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't.
By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is Greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation.
The motion control subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the platform from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is.
Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
I always wonder about software ("game") they use. What is it ? Does everybody has some specific in-house developed thing ? Or ir there some off-the-shelf solution ?
How does it compare to something like Asseto-Corsa. As i know it does take some shortcuts with its simulation.
Hi Dude! The Software that is used in the Video is rFactor Pro I instantly recognized it. It is basically rFactor 2 but more "enterprise-ish" with more specific features for these use cases and more telemetry output and things like that. So the next nearest thing would be rFactor 2 because they share the same physics engine from what I understand. Another software that is used by Mercedes for example is Panthera from Cruden.
If you can mention Ferrari but not another team. What kind of law firm must that be?!
come on now. W video
Red bulls sim is a bit bigger.
0:29 F1 teams have physical rolling tracks/roads of _this_ scale?.. Is that what I just saw here?!...
Edit: Oh, hahaha, on me! The key words come a little later.... 1:40 😅
They do! The windtunnel models are allowed to be max 70% scale.
@@wbeel That's the thing - initially, I thought I was looking at a _full-scale_ rig!.. 🤭
I couldn't believe what I was seeing - and I shouldn't have!
Cadillac are sim data testing?
I watch your videos with great pleasure! You are a true master at creating quality content.🤞🖥⛏
Nice but .. can it run F1 23 too?
Take that 'It's_Just_A_Gamers'!
✌😎👍
Why did the teams have porpoising issues?
Many tiny reasons.... Like track surface texture makes a difference, cos of the way it affects air flow etc
No thrustmaster? 😂
I need one of these in my bedroom
no Iracing is not a simulator it is just a game... this is a simulator!
Aston Martin…. It’s Aston Martin 😂