Vote Labour? Vote Independent? Vote Green? Vote Workers Party? Red Line Election Special
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- Red Line discusses the difficult questions facing the left in the election 2024. Post election, how should the left build the resistance to a likely Starmer government?
Any vote for Labour is a vote to give power to Starmer. I recommend reading 'The Starmer Project' by Oliver Eagleton. Not one vote.
Jackie Walker and Norman Thomas were a breathe of fresh air to listen to. I am sorry to say the others, remind me of religious folk who stick to churches that violate all their values, something I respect among religious folk because churches provide community and support, something Labour Party is sadly lacking.
You have to remember Starmer wont be making the decisions, he`s just the front man, someone more devious will be pulling his strings.
You can bet every foreign policy choice will be vetted by professional 'Zionist shitlord', Luke Akehurst.
Absolutely 😳😱
Why do you think all these smaller parties are always on the tv debates, when they are not entitled to be there according to the rules? If you want to know who is being paid to maintain the status quo, just look at who are always on these mainstream media debates, and who is always missing and why.
Amazed by Graham's stance here. Some turkeys really will keep voting for Christmas
UK have voters that don't have a clue why or what for, should schools pupils at age of 15 be educated but not forced to understand a bit about UK politics,.
Starmer in power will come with the same aloofness that he's made an art form of in opposition. What's worse, his authoritarianism is undeniable and he's also wrapped himself in conservative values and tropes. The direction of travel he could take doesn't bear thinking about and it looks like the electorate is going to give him a mandate with few boundaries, commitments or accountabilities.
A pretty awful set of choices. Thought the Lib Dem manifesto was okay. SNP quite good. I will vote Green as they have a chance in Lancaster and Wyre and while the sitting Labour MP is good I can't bear what Starmer has done to the left
I was going to vote Green but I cannot vote for the candidate in my area. I think there may be an issue with the Greens finding it difficult to find enough candidates to field across the country. Labour can have my vote back only if it abandons neoliberalism and the Blairite ascendancy ends. Highly unlikely in my lifetime as the right has purged the left ruthlessly. The Campaign group of socialist MPs really needs to do all it can to expand membership although with the pay roll it is likely that many MPs will be seeking roles that would preclude membership. Perish the thought that anyone would want to be identified a socialist group within the Labour Party. Corbyn joked that under Kinnock it was successful job creation scheme because so many of its members were given shadow positions to weaken the left. The Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru are the only parties talking sense in the election campaign. I discount the Liberal Democrats as they are opportunists with the luxury of saying whatever they want to garner votes. Nor have I forgotten that they walked away from coalition talks with Brown in 2010 ( despite blaming Labour) and enabled austerity and tripling of tuition fees. I may have to spoil my ballot paper.
great discussion and I can easily face the dilemma many people are having. Folks don't be too hard on Graham, he has clearly said if he was in the constituent where a good Green, or independent left candidate, or someone like Galloway or Chris Williamson he'd vote for them, but apparently unlike JAckie, he's going to vote Labour just as a protest vote against the Tories. Personally I would NEVER EVER vote Labour, I quite frankly would love to vote for Leanne Mohamed, Fiona Lali, Chris Williamson, or the Greens, shit even the Lib Dems's their manifesto greatly better then Labour, and if in Wales or Scotland, since I believe in Welsh and Scottish Independence I'd vote for SNP or Plaid or any other alternative left party that advocates independence. Best case scenario I think is a Labour/Lib-Dem Coalition in which the grassroots left faction of both mobilize to push for a social justice agenda and push back against imperialism. if its LAbour majority, then expect endless austetity and wars but with a more human face unlike the Tories.
Well,, speaking for someone who was born, nearly seventy years ago, in the then Labour heartlands of the North of England I will never vote for Keir Starmer's Labour Party. My reason is quite simple. Apart from voting for genocide, its policies simply continue the corrupt neo-Liberalism that first afflicted this part of Britain when Margaret Thatcher was elected in 1979. A neo-Liberalism that was reinvigorated under Blair's New Labour project, with initiatives such as PFI. The rotten corruption of neo-Liberalism is now plain to see in any northern town or city you may visit. The real 'choice' in this election is simply between a red brand of neo-Liberalism and a blue one, so I'm seriously thinking of emigrating to Mexico. Even left-leaning media in the English-speaking world focus exclusively on the Mexico's new president being a woman. In Mexico, her victory is seen as endorsement of the fight against the ruling corporations that is raging there. Here's one of the very few English reports which explains why this was a huge victory for the working class, regardless of gender, ethnicity or other aspects of human identity: ua-cam.com/video/R7f1vbFtUZE/v-deo.htmlsi=H5kzm0b-z8fgM_vI .
In most cases there are only totally inadequate choices so the problem is not in our heads but in the world we face. So the choice between a Starmerite Labour candidate and a Tory or Reform UK candidate is next to no choice at all. - which doesn't mean we abstain from making a choice. There are some constituencies where I think it is easier for socialists to choose - such as voting Jeremy in Islington North. What I find most difficult to comprehend is the choice not to vote Diane Abbott or Apsana Begum or Zarah Sultana just because they have the Labour whip. It is essential to get socialists in the next Parliament. And were I fit I would be happy not just to vote for them, but also to campaign for them. Do comrades not realise that the fight to get Diane reinstated was a rare victory?
Why vote at all
As a current member of the labour party and ex-treasure and ex-vice chair of what was then my CLP and all that goes with those positions, I have to tell you that I haven't voted since 1997.
I see not voting as a positive none vote because of the lack of choice.
Since Thatcher, British politics has moved so far to the right that what is now referred to as the centre of politics would been seen as not too far from Mosley's Black Shirts during in the 1930s.
Can you imagine the reaction of the media today if there was a need to establish the Kinda Transport in order to save the lives of children from evil dictators.
What if Labour lost the 1946 election and the NHS was never formed. Can you imagine the reaction by the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg if Corbin had suggested something similar to the NHS as part of the 2019 manifesto.
If they didn't think he was from the "Loony Left" they would now.
Until there is an all inclusive caring choice, I will continue to positively not vote.
One regret as Chair; I ought to have steered everyone towards an addressing of Galloway's awful homophobia and sexism. His social conservatism should be a line in the sand for the left. His more welcome position on Gaza/Israel doesn't excuse hostility towards women and the LGBTQ community.
and yet George Galloway voted for gay marriage, for allowing same sex couples to adopt and for lowering the age of consent. Maybe judge him by his actions, George isn't a homophobe or a sexist, this is an unkind characterisation.
I suspect his views have hardened with age and the deepening of his religious convictions. But I recognise his past voting record.
"His social conservatism should be a line in the sand for the left." seems to be a very bizarre argument. I have never voted for George Galloway, but I respect the fact he stands on the side of Anti-Imperialism:
- He carried cash for the ANC to South Africa during Apartheid.
- He has opposed all Western wars of aggression ansdstands for Peace.
- He stands steadfastly by Julian Assange.
- He has stood by the Palestinians for years.
His socially conservative positions constitute a couple of votes at best. Unlikely, to make a difference.
The Worker's Party candidates like Craig Murray and others don't share his socially conservative views.
I have seen you at Palestine rallies Mike, but I don't think you have a list of achievements like George Galloway. I will probably never vote for him personally, but I don't live in a constituency he is standing in. I will vote for my socially progressive pro-Palestine and supportive of Assange , SNP MP Tommy Sheppard, definitely not Labour. I have some disagreements on International issues with Tommy, but they pale in insignificance to my disgust with the gutless Labour candidates now standing in most Scottish constituencies.
Mike you know that the Labour MP and Peace campaigner, Tam Dalyell, had very socially conservative views (as a Catholic convert) and voted accordingly on social issues. I am sure you as a Labour left member never sought to use that against him. I, therefore, find your comment "His social conservatism should be a line in the sand for the left." bizarre and inline with the trend among sections of the left in support of "Cancel culture". Something I hope we grow out off soon.
Class politics and socially progressive positions aren't only compatible. They are indivisible, essential to expressing solidarity with groups subject to repression, as well as resisting ruling class divide and rule tactics. The displacement of class with identity politics is an issue we should be alert to. I'm not sure it's a failure of the left, more a useful ideological stick the right have found to beat us with. Ignoring, or worse, forgiving Galloway's refusal to support LGBTQ rights plays into the hands of our enemies.
Most certainly me and family will most definitely not vote for any of them other than REFORM 💯🇬🇧
I am enraged and appalled by Jackie Walker, Peter Firmin, all declaring in this video they will either not vote at all, or will vote for either the establishment choicd of the Green Party, even saying she does not really support them. This is a vote for the establishment, Jackie, and you know it. This means you can never call yourself an honest socialist. Peter Firman, saying he would never in a million years vote for the Workers Party. Again this means he is not a socialist. I would like to know why he is so opposed to the only party actively attempting to prevent WW3. We are seeing the US legislating for an automatic draft of 18 to 26 years olds. This means before his feet have touched the ground as PM, Starmer will do the same, and that is what George Galloway means when he says within 6 months of Starmer being PM, Britain will be at war. You are playing with fire and Russian roulette with this, the most serious issue facing us all. Being veterans of the political scene, none of your brains have been fully developed, time to grow up and deal with reality as it is, not your childish fantasy version of reality. Finally, Jackie, why did you say in the aftermath of the Rochdale by-election that you hoped the Workers Party were the beginning of a left wing movement, but now you say you are voting Green, who are not socialists?
If the Green Party were the establishment, they would be getting a hell of a lot more media coverage. It seems to me they suffer much the same treatment as most of the left wing independents and Worker's Party. They can only realistically win 2 seats, are anti-Semitic, they will never form the Government and can promise what they like etc. etc. Truth is, any grouping on the left that has a measure of success can put pressure on Labour just as Reform is putting pressure on the Tories. How well any of them do is important as we have to think beyond this election.
I agree with you Nicola about the Establishment choice being The Greens. They’re just another party that will follow the warmongering NATO. Like you I’m disappointed with Jackie Walker.
I don't consider the Workers' Party to be socialists given so many aspects of their and galloway's politics. The local WP candidate proudly talks of himself as the CEO of a company. Nuff said.
George Galloway's POV is far more nuanced than that of many of his detractors. His voting record is 'live-and-let-live' when it comes to adult rights, but he's adamant it's up to parents to determine at what age they want their kids exposed to ideas about sexuality and gender. There's a world of difference between sex ed. nodding towards same sex parents, on one hand, and normalising amongst prepubescents and young adolescents gender dysphoria, which many perfectly loving parents consider a form of body dismorphia, a pathology. No social issue should be taboo on the left. Are gendercynic or TERF parents, or those with religious beliefs, including many socially conservative Muslims - currently the conscience of the nation - not allowed to join progressives in opposing neocon-neoliberalism because they have some reservations about the LGBTQ lobby, especially its stridency in schools? This progressive holier-than-thou attitude is what divides the left and the wider proletariat, which Galloway has said many, many times. & he's right yet again. Trans hasbara is a thing. Lest we forget it was Owen Jones and the Novarati who hung out to dry Jackie Walker and other victims of the bogus AS witchhunt - where was progressive 'solidarity' then? GG said it was bollocks from the start. Why would the old school left give Galloway the cold shoulder because he's not an identikit left-lib too? Have they learned nothing from the witchhunt?
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