I absolutely love mine! I find myself using it for all kinds of stuff. Using it with the dremel brand diamond multi purpose blade is great. I also saw that someone makes an adapter to use a finger sander/belt grinder attachment on it going to order one of those next!
We thought the hype in the DeWALT was just because it was new. Sort of thought the same as you. Just highlights how hard it is to compare these types of tools on product pages
I can't stand how big the m12 die grinders (90° and straight) are. The handles are so rediculously large it seems like they put ZERO effort into trying to package the components efficiently. They look like a rushed first draft just made to prove a concept, not a production tool. And most of their stuff is looking like that these days. Making that money I guess.
Dewalt is absolutely eating everyone’s lunch right now. I’m so glad I went with team bumblebee this time around. I get work done faster and my hands don’t hurt.
@@sidthesloth128 i personally didn't buy either of the milwaukee m12 die grinders because I was able to try a coworker's. While they were alright i guess they didnt have the power i needed or the size to replace my air tools. I have been waiting dilligently for a "gen 2" for a long time hoping they would work on the compactness and power both like they seem to do with the 2nd gen impacts, etc. No dice. So when I see the new dewalt in a similar size absolutely trounce the milwaukee in power, it bums me out that I'm on the red platform since I dont want to change 'yet again'. I'd love to get away from the hose/ air compressor completely.
@@sidthesloth128 people are crazy and/or have too much money. Both red and yellow are quality brands I'm 💛 but agree big red has Dewalt beat on some tools. It is great for us the way they keep pushing each other in quality and price. I Look at it that way.
@@sidthesloth128 Oh I gotcha now, maybe I wasn't clear- I'm not gonna jump ship, sell all my red, and start over with another brand. That would be silly since there are some of the milwaukee tools I have that kick ass. I was more talking about having to invest in chargers and batteries for yet another brand if i decide to get some dewalts. Now that said, if somone (anyone) comes out with a tiny, powerful straight and 90°die grinder and air ratchet that are actually comparable in size to air tools (including the batteries) then I might buy them with a battery and charger kit if on sale (I.E. not too much if an investment) I already have milwaukee (used to be a makita guy, WAY back in the day) and ryobi because I needed a tool and there was a sale on one I liked in kit form from a different brand at a price where I couldnt say no. I'm not getting rid of any of my tools- just adding to the collection, which is nice- so when i go on a big job I have plenty of chargers, batteries, and tools to use at will. I'm not only cheap, but also not wealthy, so purchases have to be well thought out and saved up for. And worth the $. BTW I'm liking the ryobi tools I have more than I thought I would. The question was durability, and they're holding up great. Hopefully, slumping sales from bad PR and unsatisfied customers jumpimg ship will wake milwaukee up.
Agreed, the voltage argument makes no sense when the tools are the same size. If everyone can make a higher voltage tool that size make that power they should!
It is a good tell on the different philosophies used by different brands. For example under voltage protection is handled differently, Some brands just use a heavier duty motor with far less protection and sacrifice weight and cost where others will use a better protection method and a cheaper motor and achieve a lighter weight. Both will last as long as each other but one will allow more over load before it stalling reducing run time and increasing wear. The one thing the performance graphs do demonstrate is that even with the best optimized pneumatic supplies power still falls off when using a pneumatic supply.
I'm so glad i held off on getting the Milwaukee Cut-off, i heard folks saying it felt a little underpowered so i didn't bother. Now i have the Dewalt and couldn't be happier, i actually use it to cut tile, that's how strong it is.
That motor is probably around 85% to 90% efficient as a generator (the heat its fan is removing has to come from somewhere after all), so the DeWalt is probably bang-on its 550W rated output. I'd like to see a calibration run of your setup using a known quantity of some sort, maybe a 12V motor with known efficiency and volt/amp meter to measure what its drawing?
add to that brushless have 90%++ efficiency where AC grinders have more like 50-60% (for example metabo 850W have 480w output power) so THAT DEWALT IS A BEAST .... 550W +++ of brushless ON THE OUTPUT !!!!! (it have more because that spindle as a generator have less than 80% efficiency) its like 1000w 240volt AC powered grinder ....but compact ....and probably even more powerfull
I wonder if you could have an almost identical setup with another spindle motor, except drive it with a DC power supply. Then you could basically dyno your dyno with itself. You would have to make the assumption that both motors have equal efficiency in this scenario, though. I dont know enough about DC motors to know if you can do that.
I used to do efficiency testing of automotive space. Toss an inline flange type torque meter, T12FS from HBK was the standard at the time. The cost goes way up, I rather have them use their funds on buying tools and testing than coming up with a band on dyno.
@@wills2262 wouldn't need anything near that expensive. Just get a second motor exactly the same and hook them up together. Measure power going in, subtract power coming out divide by two and there's your efficiency loss for the generator side.
Tools Tested did a test with these in the Spring with the same results, so I'm not surprised. But DeWalt did have a long time to copy Milwaukee and improve the design. There are only a couple of DeWalts that make me wish I could justify another battery system. That cutoff tool is one of them.
Glad you made this! That UWO annoys the crap out of me because it can't be compared to anything non Stanley Black & Decker. Now I can make a better recommendation for these cut-off tools. I own the Milwaukee and it works great but YIKES! That DeWALT is crazy!
Whomever is in charge of Dewalt development needs a raise. Everything coming out of the Yellow camp has been absolutely eating the competition. Good on Dewalt for stepping up this gen. Hopefully it encourages the other camps to come out swinging as well. We all win when companies do what Dewalt has done this recent gen of tools
When I first saw the Milwaukee cutoff saw, I thought it was pointless. But then I started doing a lot of work with fiberglass, and combined with a good diamond blade, that thing sure is handy! I'm not at all surprised that air beats it, though...
i got one to cut impossible to unscrew screws in hvac retrofit, and i love it for its size (and battery compatibility with my other Milwaukee tools), but i can tell that using it for sheet metal, screws, and the occasional heavy angle is about the max of its usefulness. id love to see more compact 18 volt batteries, and a m18 cutoff tool out of Milwaukee.
@@shrededpudding5921 agreed. The max I've cut with my M12 cutoff tool has been 3/8" steel rod but anything heavier will be cut with my corded grinder. I'd say this tool was pushing the limits for a 12V platform and a main reason we don't see 4 1/2" angle grinders in 12V guise. The least powerful angle grinder I've seen is 600W, just do the math...
The milwaukee with the compact high output battery can be put through a 90mm downlight hole to cut steel channel. It's a little down on power but man, it will solve some headaches for you! Add a diamond cut off wheel and it's great. Maybe the gen 2 will have a few more watts...
I compared the m12 and 20v in a video on Milwaukee tool Nation recently... Many many people were butthurt about the comparison, let alone the massive difference in power. It is a mini monster, dewalt literally just gave you ALL the beans 😃
The Ridgid one I have is pretty good but you can't get too carried away or she stalls. I hogged through a rear arch panel on a junkyard car pretty quick when I needed a patch for my rust belt Saab. Wouldn't mind seeing that compared to others but won't be upset if I don't either.
Be real the Dewalts from just a couple years ago really sucked. Professionals bought Milwaukee because they were better tools. The tables sure have turned nowadays.
@@Jesse921 I would love to see an 18 volt version of the right angle die Grinder, a little more size with a bunch more power and runtime. I’m sure they would still be smaller than the old Ingersoll Rand Cordless Right Angle Die Grinder. 14.4 Volt Lithium Ion Battery. I liked mine until it got hot or the batteries died.
I got the Milwaukee as part of a kit. Finally had to use it the other day to cut a ridiculously thick garden hose threaded end off of the spigot. I was not terribly impressed. It worked, but felt like it was struggling.
A great start for this type of testing. You guys really need to automate some power draw curves that you can then graph rpm output against in a more repeatable fashion.
Wow. The m12 fuel was the first cordless tool I owned and I love it, although it does bog out if you push it too hard. Good thing you convinced me to grab a DCF891 so I now have DeWalt batteries and charger for when the m12 gives up the smoke haha.
I’d love to see the new HF Bauer 20v and Hercules 12v. I’ve had the m12 fuel for a while, but it now lives at work and I want a cheaper one for home haha.
It may be worth running a similar motor hooked up to your rig, monitoring power in vs power out to get an efficiency curve (if it differs vs rpm) and you could use those values to compensate your findings and get even more accurate data
11:08 - Don't forget the voltage helping with the wattage! The amps on the powerstack vs the 2ah is 20a vs 16.2a for the 2aH red tool (at a nominal voltage of 3.7V/cell). Don't forget the voltage helping with the wattage!.. Thats a discharge C rate of 11.7 for team yellow and 8.1 for team red... Not as large of a amperage difference as the wattage leads you to think.
That dewalt blew me away. It really sounds like a beastttt. Gonna have to invest in another tool brand I guess. I swear I won't be happy till I get all the air tools, makita dewalt and milwaukee line ups!! They all have some awesome tools
Neat test to put some numbers on it, but the empirical testing done by others was ultra clear and unsold me on the M12 months ago. Thanks for reaffirming. :-)
Your test rig came very close to those UWO numbers provided in the specs. 3rd party testing is more thrust worthy than MFG's claims and now I can confidently associate UWO numbers to actual work, as in HP. This test quantifies what others have been saying about the Dewalt cut off tool feeling more powerful as it takes more pressure before bogging down. Put a 9ah flexvolt and see what it can do!
This is my favourite channel on UA-cam, thanks guys. I would like to see led lenser torches tested, i regularly see battery life you can measure in days not hours, also rechargeable batteries (AA, AAA) tested please
Great video, thanks! My $.02, I'm fine with the 12V Milwaukee vs. 20V Dewalt..I have mostly 20V Dewalt and a couple 12V Milwaukee tools....both have their place for me. Very nice to know how the 12V stacks against the 20V since the 12V would likely be adequate for my needs...and I don't want to add the 18V Milwaukee at this time. Most of the 12V Milwaukee are more than adequate...comes down to size at times However....that 20V 6Ah is a beast and might be worth the plunge. Thank you for comparing both.
I bought the M12 to cut off toilet flange bolts and vent pipe along with other light duty stuff and it performs just fine. I already have an angle grinder for heavier applications. Milwaukee tries to come out with precision tools but everybody is just focused on the power and torque. Same reason why Milwaukee is ditching the electronic clutch on their drills for mechanical.
for my purposes of cutting tiles on installed backsplash the m12 is smaller and works just fine. If you were cutting rebar or wood cutting then that dewalt is the tool to use
Doesn't Ridgid have one of these now? I would like to see how that stacks up. I would also like to thank you guys for opening my eyes to all these new battery tools. I'm not a professional, but, with time on my hands (retired), I spend time nearly every day working on cars/motorcycles/boats/lawncare equipment for myself and neighbors. Your channel made me realize I no longer need air power for what I'm doing, and selling my large compressor freed up a lot of shop space and funded the purchase of battery tools. Thanks!
Awesome video!!! Now let’s see how Harborfreight’s new Bauer and Hercules stack up against these ones! Thanks for all you do for us DIY guys out here to pick the best tools for our needs! Keep up the great work!
We have the M12 at work and I thought it was okay. I use it to cut 1/4 in drop leaf steel slides at work. I didn't see Makita was coming out with with their own so I got the Dewalt as free tool with starter kit. It's powerful and can take more pressure with out bogging down unlike the motor like the M12. My only gripe so far is the horrendous noise it makes at full rpm. Sounds like somethings wrong with the motor like somethings off balance.
I’d like to see the Ryobi 18V on the list. I have the M12 and find it suitable for only light duty stuff but the Ryobi has handled all I’ve thrown at it.
I've seen tests on other channels that just go through the normal cutting speed same blade same battery capacities comparatively a 4 amp hour 12 volt Milwaukee versus a 4 amp hour Ryobi 18 volt and Ryobi outperforms Milwaukee. I have the rigid version so I'm team Orange and well yes I have stalled this thing out a time or two. It does everything it's supposed to do well. My only complaint is the guard/depth control. Milwaukee and dewalt's guard is a much better depth control option than what was included on the rigid. A glorified metal bracket and you need a 4 mm hex key to adjust the depth. But overall in the TTI camp rigid and Ryobi are better than the Milwaukee
I know you guys are mainly car guys, but I would love to see you do a "What battery ecosystem is best" comparison. What tools exist for a given battery family, and how good they are. Including drills, impacts, angle-grinders, saws, etc. With ecoysystem/family, I mean not just e.g. Devalt XR. If you can use XR and Powerstack and others on the same tools, that counts. 12v vs 18v/20v does not. You'd have to be able to make use of the combination of Tool/Battery/Charger.
Great video, thanks for sharing. Ive been considering that cutoff tool for a long time but never pulled the trigger. Too bad I'm already Milwaukee gang!
Great review and really appreciate the tool/battery deal link. Was looking at a bare tool the past week and getting one with accessories and 2 batteries for a few $$ more was awesome!! thanks again!!
Old news, Joe the Tool Guy proved the Dewalt was better back in April. Search "New DeWalt XR Cutoff Tool better than Milwaukee!" The m12 totally failed to cut 3 day old pizza while the Dewalt showed us a bright new future of pizza slicing ;-) But seriously this is an awesome channel. Would love to see the m18 vs 20v Dewalt 1/4 die grinders matched up against each other. Also Makita, HPT, Kobalt, and Ryobi also make 1/4 die grinders. Would make for a nice series for your test rig if it can handle the torque output of these tools.
Higher voltage doesn't always make a difference, but in these circumstances where you have a sustained load on a spinning motor, those extra volts really help keep the amps down.
Your setup is Impressive , I was before You tested the Dewalt cut off say You will never get smoke out of the air cut off but it seems You wont get smoke out of the Dewalt either, Thanks for sorting out the Gobbledygook for the tool Consumer! Cheers!!! Rick Aurora Ontario Canada
Could y'all get ahold of a old Chicago pneumatic cp7775-6 and test it against an IR 2850? A battle of the 1 inch impacts for us 18 wheeler tire changers would be cool
I have a homemade die grinder/cut-off tool that I believe will blow any competition out of the water. It runs on an 18v Makita battery, I would love to see you dyno it on your channel.
The DCF 840 with a powerstack 1.7ah woops all day long on the M12 impact driver with a 6.0ah. Higher voltage but the Dewalt weighs less and spins out more power not to mention the grip on Dewalt is a better feel.
Would be really interested in seeing how the Ryobi compact cut off tool compares to these. I have one but use a dewalt 20v battery on it with an adapter. Works great.
I don't own the Ryobi but owned the Ridgid (which looks like an orange Ryobi) for about 6 months and it's noticeably more powerful than my M12 Fuel. Eg. cutting 3/8" rebar would've stalled the M12 once while the Ridgid would cut it right away and 2-3 seconds faster. I also liked the Ridgid had a variable speed trigger but I just got rid of it as I chose to keep 2 brands only. Nothing wrong with their cut off tool.
I love the Onyx 209 and the 4” big brother. Recently picked up a Ridgid Battery cut off and I like it but it goes through batteries quick. Looking at a Ryobi as well for cutting large petroleum hose with big steel wire reinforcement.
Love the new testing rig, maybe it is possible to do some more testing of angle grinders in the future? Bosch seems to be one of the few brands that lists power specifications on its website.
I have the dewalt and it has cut everything I have threw at it. I really can't complain. I have m12 and dewalt 20v but with this tool, I knew to go with dewalt.
Not sure if it's worth it but you could calculate every loss in the dynamo and subtract those from the total but since friction and ventilation losses change with RPM you would have to trace a graph for every rpm you need, copper losses change with temperature so you would need to check temperature to see if it's in ±5° from calculated operating temperature and then we have iron losses so it's better to ignore them after all. Or run the dyno with a variable speed motor with known power output and graph a rough efficiency rating
And THAT is why powerstak is exciting! People complained about the 1.7ah having short battery life (first off duh) secondly like they charge in no time at all....
It would be interesting to see you test home computer backup systems. They make a lot of claims on how long they will last. All based on certain loads. Some of the batteries in them do not seem to last to long. Maybe you test the replacement batteries for these also. The 1500 wat range prices range widely. Amazon brand makes one for under $200 while some of APC's are in the $1,000. I love to see the results.
It would be interesting to see how the other TTI 18v tools compare, like the Ryobi cutoff tool and die grinders vs the Rigid cutoff tool. It's interesting that TTI hasn't made an 18v one in the Milwaukee line. I've noticed my Ryobi cutoff will just chew through 4ah 18v packs when cutting sheet metal, and eventually "overheat" if I was to push it but that's really a task for an angle grinder, partly from grinding wheel cost. I mostly use it for lighter tasks where it's been fine.
The 4ah batteries are too small for that application, I'd bet. Angle grinder wise, my M18 is gutless and hogs through batteries faster than steel with less than a 6ah battery.
@@wiresmith2398 I'm sure the bigger batteries work better, but with a small motor I wouldn't say that they're useless unless the batteries are heavily worn. Angle grinders definitely benefit from higher output packs, the non HP+ ryobi packs also output less current in general than the HP+ ones, so they'll always be a bit weaker. The main issue with using a 3" cutoff tool to run though sheet metal is just heat, the motor got hot, the cutting disk got hot, the battery was hot, it's a lot of heat, but it worked.
Ive been pretty aggrivated at milwaukee for a while. The only cordless tool ive gotten from them that lives up to the hype is the brushless 4½" grinder- its a beast. The drill i have is a joke that shuts off with the slightest pressure in high gear (even with high output batteries) and the 3/8 impact is NOWHWERE NEAR 220 ft lbs. My gen1 high output 1/2" impact was pretty powerful but it's expremely wimpy handle broke and now it's obsolete, can't get a replacement. Most of their tools are excessively large with a whole bunch of wasted space inside, when they could have been made much smaller with a little more effort to think out the packaging a little better. Almost all of the handles are made for sasquatch apparently, just in case they become more prevalant in the world and learn to use tools. The size of those sawzalls? Rediculous. And have you seen the size of the body on that m18 chainsaw? That's the best they can do? I work in a shop where there is alot of milwaukee, and I'm always surprised at how many ket killed. That crap they pulled with the cheapened gen 3 mid torque impact was utterly shameful and it seems like they only did something because torque test called them out on it in public. Don't get me started on their high output 9.0 / 12.0 batteries. I'm a milwaukee guy....but come on, milwaukee, put a little more effort into sustaining that reputation of yours. Ive held off buying anything red because of the way you're relying on that past reputation instead of producing top notch tools.
I remember when Stanley Black&Decker started down that same road of sliding quality and reduced quality control with Dewalt. Hopefully the red team pulls up their socks. 🤞
@@1x4x93 yep back and decker had an industrial line that was just starting to merge with dewalt back then, and before that alot of the dewalt line was pure industrial stuff with all metal housings and cast iron tables.
I have not long purchased a metabo CC18 LTX BL , it is fairly basic, it is 18 volts and n values 20000 rpm . I hope it’s as good as my other metabo gear . On a side note it looks like a lot of metabo gear in the states is Hikoki
Can you test older Milwaukee impacts? Like the 2663 brushed. It just busted off 36mm axel nuts on my Honda Accord like they weren't even there, still staked too. It's been a black Friday deal at home Depot for years in a row now
They’re going to test in the 350ish range plus or minus 50 ft lbs. If there isn’t significant amounts of rust, I’ve even managed to remove 36 mm axle nuts on my prelude with a dcf903 and adapter. (Granted it was there less than 15,000 miles and therefore recently torqued to its 181 ft lbs spec, but still.)
@@juanc5149 interesting, thanks for the numbers. It just really surprises me how this old tool still kicks ass lol atleast for my application it's great
I would like to see impact screwdrivers tested. Harbor freight, Amazon brands, wera, there is no comparison on the internet that I can find of actual torque applied to the fastener.
The 18v Ridgid would be a good middle ground to test. Other channels have done some testing and it was more powerful than the Milwaukee. I don't think I have seen a review against a DeWalt. The Ridgid retail is $129. They are on sale now for $100. Ridgid has a ton of batteries to test against, plus all the other Octane variance.
Makita just announced their new 3in cut off tool, I don't believe it's available to buy yet, but hopefully when it's out I'd like to see that in comparison with these tools
There is one thing u need to consider that spindle motor u use to test have maybe around 70% efficiency in a way u use it then not exactly about test , but brushless tools have 90%+ efficiency where AC tools have around 50-60% for example metabo 240v 850w have 480w output where 850w brushless will have more than 770w output so THAT DEWALT IS A BEAST ...it have more power than 1kw AC powered- grinder
I just got the Dewalt and also have had the Ryobi HP 3" cutter for awhile now. The Ryobi has more power than the Milwaukee, curious to see it against the Dewalt
I've had a ryobi cutoff tool for a while, and found that it works okay. I bought the dewalt a couple weeks ago. First time I used it I slapped a 6ah 60v flex battery on it and was shocked at how good it is. It's stronger than my snapon, Ingersoll, and matco air powered. I also have a ryobi hp and a dewalt cordless angle grinder. The dewalt is miles ahead in that comparison as well. I use these tools professionally and they all take abuse. I think another area where dewalt shines is how well they hold up. With the exception of watching those expensive 20v batteries explode if you drop it on the shop floor.
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Watts are cool and all but what's the # of catalytic converters stolen/hour?
Hahaha! And how easily can they be swiped from a big box store 😆
Cordless sawzall's do it faster and quieter. This is more of a bike thief's wet dream
My big box has them under lock and key.
Bruh 🤣
@@TorqueTestChannel Prove it!
That Dewalt is insane. Some engineer fought to put that motor in that tool and it paid off.
Yes...BUT isn't a shit air tool better? I hope I'm not the only cheapass wondering
I absolutely love mine! I find myself using it for all kinds of stuff. Using it with the dremel brand diamond multi purpose blade is great. I also saw that someone makes an adapter to use a finger sander/belt grinder attachment on it going to order one of those next!
@@B0BBYGAMERhe did test a cheap air tool in this test, and it got beat bad by the dewalt
@@B0BBYGAMER for the simple reason of not being tethered to an air tank or dealing with an air hose.... Absolutely not
@@B0BBYGAMER Cheapass tools lose charm when they die. Then you spend time and money with a new tool when you would be doing something else.
I've hated the M12 cutoff since I bought it and just expected the DeWalt to be about the same. NOPE, I'm buying the DeWalt! Thanks for the video.
We thought the hype in the DeWALT was just because it was new. Sort of thought the same as you. Just highlights how hard it is to compare these types of tools on product pages
I agree completely. I have many Milwaukee tools and like them all except this weak thing. The only material that doesn't stall it is foam insulation.
I can't stand how big the m12 die grinders (90° and straight) are. The handles are so rediculously large it seems like they put ZERO effort into trying to package the components efficiently. They look like a rushed first draft just made to prove a concept, not a production tool. And most of their stuff is looking like that these days. Making that money I guess.
Same here. I regret buying the M12. Wanted to use it for tile and and concrete board and it feels like it is going to catch fire.
Crap just bought the M12, maybe I shouldn’t have.
Love to see DeWalt win, especially if it pushes Milwaukee to do better
Dewalt is absolutely eating everyone’s lunch right now. I’m so glad I went with team bumblebee this time around. I get work done faster and my hands don’t hurt.
@@markm0000 and I'm regretting jumping on team red a while back. They've stagnated.
@@sidthesloth128 i personally didn't buy either of the milwaukee m12 die grinders because I was able to try a coworker's. While they were alright i guess they didnt have the power i needed or the size to replace my air tools. I have been waiting dilligently for a "gen 2" for a long time hoping they would work on the compactness and power both like they seem to do with the 2nd gen impacts, etc. No dice. So when I see the new dewalt in a similar size absolutely trounce the milwaukee in power, it bums me out that I'm on the red platform since I dont want to change 'yet again'.
I'd love to get away from the hose/ air compressor completely.
@@sidthesloth128 people are crazy and/or have too much money. Both red and yellow are quality brands I'm 💛 but agree big red has Dewalt beat on some tools. It is great for us the way they keep pushing each other in quality and price. I Look at it that way.
@@sidthesloth128 Oh I gotcha now, maybe I wasn't clear- I'm not gonna jump ship, sell all my red, and start over with another brand. That would be silly since there are some of the milwaukee tools I have that kick ass. I was more talking about having to invest in chargers and batteries for yet another brand if i decide to get some dewalts.
Now that said, if somone (anyone) comes out with a tiny, powerful straight and 90°die grinder and air ratchet that are actually comparable in size to air tools (including the batteries) then I might buy them with a battery and charger kit if on sale (I.E. not too much if an investment) I already have milwaukee (used to be a makita guy, WAY back in the day) and ryobi because I needed a tool and there was a sale on one I liked in kit form from a different brand at a price where I couldnt say no.
I'm not getting rid of any of my tools- just adding to the collection, which is nice- so when i go on a big job I have plenty of chargers, batteries, and tools to use at will. I'm not only cheap, but also not wealthy, so purchases have to be well thought out and saved up for. And worth the $.
BTW I'm liking the ryobi tools I have more than I thought I would. The question was durability, and they're holding up great.
Hopefully, slumping sales from bad PR and unsatisfied customers jumpimg ship will wake milwaukee up.
That DeWalt is pretty impressive, since the motor housing size looks about the same as the Milwaukee, and nothing said about it smelling hot at 500W.
They have been beefing up their wires thankfully and their plastic has always been good.
Agreed, the voltage argument makes no sense when the tools are the same size. If everyone can make a higher voltage tool that size make that power they should!
@@ObservationofLimits Amps/current is directly related to torque, voltage is most directly related to RPM all things being equal.
@@TorqueTestChannel I feel like you are the channel guy to make a 36v m12 battery pack work.
It is a good tell on the different philosophies used by different brands. For example under voltage protection is handled differently, Some brands just use a heavier duty motor with far less protection and sacrifice weight and cost where others will use a better protection method and a cheaper motor and achieve a lighter weight. Both will last as long as each other but one will allow more over load before it stalling reducing run time and increasing wear. The one thing the performance graphs do demonstrate is that even with the best optimized pneumatic supplies power still falls off when using a pneumatic supply.
I'm so glad i held off on getting the Milwaukee Cut-off, i heard folks saying it felt a little underpowered so i didn't bother. Now i have the Dewalt and couldn't be happier, i actually use it to cut tile, that's how strong it is.
That motor is probably around 85% to 90% efficient as a generator (the heat its fan is removing has to come from somewhere after all), so the DeWalt is probably bang-on its 550W rated output.
I'd like to see a calibration run of your setup using a known quantity of some sort, maybe a 12V motor with known efficiency and volt/amp meter to measure what its drawing?
add to that brushless have 90%++ efficiency where AC grinders have more like 50-60% (for example metabo 850W have 480w output power)
so THAT DEWALT IS A BEAST .... 550W +++ of brushless ON THE OUTPUT !!!!! (it have more because that spindle as a generator have less than 80% efficiency)
its like 1000w 240volt AC powered grinder ....but compact ....and probably even more powerfull
I wonder if you could have an almost identical setup with another spindle motor, except drive it with a DC power supply. Then you could basically dyno your dyno with itself. You would have to make the assumption that both motors have equal efficiency in this scenario, though. I dont know enough about DC motors to know if you can do that.
I used to do efficiency testing of automotive space. Toss an inline flange type torque meter, T12FS from HBK was the standard at the time. The cost goes way up, I rather have them use their funds on buying tools and testing than coming up with a band on dyno.
@@wills2262 wouldn't need anything near that expensive. Just get a second motor exactly the same and hook them up together. Measure power going in, subtract power coming out divide by two and there's your efficiency loss for the generator side.
With DeWalts Impact driver and this cut off tool i am getting more and more a fan of this brand
Would love to see 4.5” angle grinders tested battery vs plug in vs air
I second this request.
Tools Tested did a test with these in the Spring with the same results, so I'm not surprised.
But DeWalt did have a long time to copy Milwaukee and improve the design. There are only a couple of DeWalts that make me wish I could justify another battery system. That cutoff tool is one of them.
Don’t forget dewalts sawzall that thing is something else.
Glad you made this! That UWO annoys the crap out of me because it can't be compared to anything non Stanley Black & Decker. Now I can make a better recommendation for these cut-off tools. I own the Milwaukee and it works great but YIKES! That DeWALT is crazy!
Whomever is in charge of Dewalt development needs a raise. Everything coming out of the Yellow camp has been absolutely eating the competition. Good on Dewalt for stepping up this gen. Hopefully it encourages the other camps to come out swinging as well. We all win when companies do what Dewalt has done this recent gen of tools
When I first saw the Milwaukee cutoff saw, I thought it was pointless. But then I started doing a lot of work with fiberglass, and combined with a good diamond blade, that thing sure is handy! I'm not at all surprised that air beats it, though...
i got one to cut impossible to unscrew screws in hvac retrofit, and i love it for its size (and battery compatibility with my other Milwaukee tools), but i can tell that using it for sheet metal, screws, and the occasional heavy angle is about the max of its usefulness. id love to see more compact 18 volt batteries, and a m18 cutoff tool out of Milwaukee.
@@shrededpudding5921 agreed. The max I've cut with my M12 cutoff tool has been 3/8" steel rod but anything heavier will be cut with my corded grinder.
I'd say this tool was pushing the limits for a 12V platform and a main reason we don't see 4 1/2" angle grinders in 12V guise. The least powerful angle grinder I've seen is 600W, just do the math...
The milwaukee with the compact high output battery can be put through a 90mm downlight hole to cut steel channel. It's a little down on power but man, it will solve some headaches for you! Add a diamond cut off wheel and it's great. Maybe the gen 2 will have a few more watts...
I compared the m12 and 20v in a video on Milwaukee tool Nation recently... Many many people were butthurt about the comparison, let alone the massive difference in power. It is a mini monster, dewalt literally just gave you ALL the beans 😃
This channel is priceless. You're really making a difference.
Ah dang, I just saw that Makita announced their cut off tool recently. So sad it didn't come out in time for this lineup
We'll buy it
The Ridgid one I have is pretty good but you can't get too carried away or she stalls. I hogged through a rear arch panel on a junkyard car pretty quick when I needed a patch for my rust belt Saab. Wouldn't mind seeing that compared to others but won't be upset if I don't either.
My friend bought that dewalt cordless cutoff and it helped us so much with a project at work.
Dewalt is really stepping up their game lately.
They sure have I bought the Milwaukee first because it was the only one available great tool. I now have the dewalt amazing power.
Be real the Dewalts from just a couple years ago really sucked. Professionals bought Milwaukee because they were better tools. The tables sure have turned nowadays.
@@markm0000 Gotta agree with Mark here. 20V tools just from 2-3 years ago were pretty sleepy
@@loucifer4205 Not even close.
I've recently upgraded to Dewalt from Milwaukee. Been great so far!
Appreciate your testing. Looks like Milwaukee has some catching up to do. Thanks for the videos.
I mean it is Milwaukee M12 Series , The M18 series would be different story
@@Jesse921 I would love to see an 18 volt version of the right angle die Grinder, a little more size with a bunch more power and runtime. I’m sure they would still be smaller than the old Ingersoll Rand Cordless Right Angle Die Grinder. 14.4 Volt Lithium Ion Battery. I liked mine until it got hot or the batteries died.
I got the Milwaukee as part of a kit. Finally had to use it the other day to cut a ridiculously thick garden hose threaded end off of the spigot. I was not terribly impressed. It worked, but felt like it was struggling.
A great start for this type of testing. You guys really need to automate some power draw curves that you can then graph rpm output against in a more repeatable fashion.
Wow. The m12 fuel was the first cordless tool I owned and I love it, although it does bog out if you push it too hard. Good thing you convinced me to grab a DCF891 so I now have DeWalt batteries and charger for when the m12 gives up the smoke haha.
Definitely have to thank you! Your channel is very helpful in helping me find better tool choices and avoiding buying tools that would be a mistake!
I’d love to see the new HF Bauer 20v and Hercules 12v. I’ve had the m12 fuel for a while, but it now lives at work and I want a cheaper one for home haha.
It may be worth running a similar motor hooked up to your rig, monitoring power in vs power out to get an efficiency curve (if it differs vs rpm) and you could use those values to compensate your findings and get even more accurate data
11:08 - Don't forget the voltage helping with the wattage! The amps on the powerstack vs the 2ah is 20a vs 16.2a for the 2aH red tool (at a nominal voltage of 3.7V/cell). Don't forget the voltage helping with the wattage!.. Thats a discharge C rate of 11.7 for team yellow and 8.1 for team red... Not as large of a amperage difference as the wattage leads you to think.
That dewalt blew me away. It really sounds like a beastttt. Gonna have to invest in another tool brand I guess. I swear I won't be happy till I get all the air tools, makita dewalt and milwaukee line ups!! They all have some awesome tools
Neat test to put some numbers on it, but the empirical testing done by others was ultra clear and unsold me on the M12 months ago. Thanks for reaffirming. :-)
Your test rig came very close to those UWO numbers provided in the specs. 3rd party testing is more thrust worthy than MFG's claims and now I can confidently associate UWO numbers to actual work, as in HP.
This test quantifies what others have been saying about the Dewalt cut off tool feeling more powerful as it takes more pressure before bogging down.
Put a 9ah flexvolt and see what it can do!
Lmao a 9ah flex volt on this thing would rip through a solid block of steel.
This is my favourite channel on UA-cam, thanks guys.
I would like to see led lenser torches tested, i regularly see battery life you can measure in days not hours, also rechargeable batteries (AA, AAA) tested please
Great video, thanks!
My $.02, I'm fine with the 12V Milwaukee vs. 20V Dewalt..I have mostly 20V Dewalt and a couple 12V Milwaukee tools....both have their place for me.
Very nice to know how the 12V stacks against the 20V since the 12V would likely be adequate for my needs...and I don't want to add the 18V Milwaukee at this time.
Most of the 12V Milwaukee are more than adequate...comes down to size at times
However....that 20V 6Ah is a beast and might be worth the plunge.
Thank you for comparing both.
I bought the M12 to cut off toilet flange bolts and vent pipe along with other light duty stuff and it performs just fine. I already have an angle grinder for heavier applications. Milwaukee tries to come out with precision tools but everybody is just focused on the power and torque. Same reason why Milwaukee is ditching the electronic clutch on their drills for mechanical.
for my purposes of cutting tiles on installed backsplash the m12 is smaller and works just fine. If you were cutting rebar or wood cutting then that dewalt is the tool to use
These are not made for wood.
Doesn't Ridgid have one of these now? I would like to see how that stacks up. I would also like to thank you guys for opening my eyes to all these new battery tools. I'm not a professional, but, with time on my hands (retired), I spend time nearly every day working on cars/motorcycles/boats/lawncare equipment for myself and neighbors. Your channel made me realize I no longer need air power for what I'm doing, and selling my large compressor freed up a lot of shop space and funded the purchase of battery tools. Thanks!
A cutoff wheel of choice in the glorious beastly Milwaukee 5196 die grinder is a joy to use.
One thing sold me on deWalt is the cutting depth. DeWalt actually has internal gears in order to lower the axle to achieve a deeper cut
I would love to see the new high output batteries for the milwaukee M12 tools. They've looked really impressive so far!
air turbine grinders and pencil grinders would be interesting to see tested, if you even can as they tend to spin faster than what you tested so far
Awesome video!!! Now let’s see how Harborfreight’s new Bauer and Hercules stack up against these ones! Thanks for all you do for us DIY guys out here to pick the best tools for our needs! Keep up the great work!
im always so excited when i see y'all have put out another video YAY! was looking at the milwaukee cut off wheel right now too as luck would have it.
We have the M12 at work and I thought it was okay. I use it to cut 1/4 in drop leaf steel slides at work. I didn't see Makita was coming out with with their own so I got the Dewalt as free tool with starter kit. It's powerful and can take more pressure with out bogging down unlike the motor like the M12. My only gripe so far is the horrendous noise it makes at full rpm. Sounds like somethings wrong with the motor like somethings off balance.
I don't like the m12 it turns itself off easily then I end up getting a grinder to finish what it couldn't do. I will be getting that dewalt for sure.
I’d like to see the Ryobi 18V on the list. I have the M12 and find it suitable for only light duty stuff but the Ryobi has handled all I’ve thrown at it.
I've seen tests on other channels that just go through the normal cutting speed same blade same battery capacities comparatively a 4 amp hour 12 volt Milwaukee versus a 4 amp hour Ryobi 18 volt and Ryobi outperforms Milwaukee. I have the rigid version so I'm team Orange and well yes I have stalled this thing out a time or two. It does everything it's supposed to do well. My only complaint is the guard/depth control. Milwaukee and dewalt's guard is a much better depth control option than what was included on the rigid. A glorified metal bracket and you need a 4 mm hex key to adjust the depth. But overall in the TTI camp rigid and Ryobi are better than the Milwaukee
I’d love to see the Milwaukee tested with the 2.5 HO and 5.0 HO batteries.
Harbor freight rotary tool. Currently a coupon in my email for it at $7 lol. It's worth a laugh. Not sure if the RPMs are quite high enough though
I agree with the Dewalt Being a Beast I love mine it takes a ton to Stall It @Torque Test Channel
Loving all the uploads lately. Great work as always.
I know you guys are mainly car guys, but I would love to see you do a "What battery ecosystem is best" comparison. What tools exist for a given battery family, and how good they are. Including drills, impacts, angle-grinders, saws, etc.
With ecoysystem/family, I mean not just e.g. Devalt XR. If you can use XR and Powerstack and others on the same tools, that counts. 12v vs 18v/20v does not. You'd have to be able to make use of the combination of Tool/Battery/Charger.
You can probably test routers on this jig, right? That'd be cool to see, but you might need more load testers for the big ones
That's a great idea
Great video, thanks for sharing. Ive been considering that cutoff tool for a long time but never pulled the trigger. Too bad I'm already Milwaukee gang!
Great review and really appreciate the tool/battery deal link. Was looking at a bare tool the past week and getting one with accessories and 2 batteries for a few $$ more was awesome!! thanks again!!
You guys need a bigger dyno I would love to see circular saws I want to know the difference between 20v 20v power detect 60v flex volt and corded
If you would be able to test the dewalt flex volt grinder that would be amazing, the thing is a beast and I haven’t seen much that could beat it
God. That piece with the email to car and driver absolutely killed me hahahaha. Well done!
Old news, Joe the Tool Guy proved the Dewalt was better back in April. Search "New DeWalt XR Cutoff Tool better than Milwaukee!" The m12 totally failed to cut 3 day old pizza while the Dewalt showed us a bright new future of pizza slicing ;-)
But seriously this is an awesome channel. Would love to see the m18 vs 20v Dewalt 1/4 die grinders matched up against each other. Also Makita, HPT, Kobalt, and Ryobi also make 1/4 die grinders. Would make for a nice series for your test rig if it can handle the torque output of these tools.
Higher voltage doesn't always make a difference, but in these circumstances where you have a sustained load on a spinning motor, those extra volts really help keep the amps down.
This is what I literally was waiting for a long time
Your setup is Impressive , I was before You tested the Dewalt cut off say You will never get smoke out of the air cut off but it seems You wont get smoke out of the Dewalt either, Thanks for sorting out the Gobbledygook for the tool Consumer! Cheers!!! Rick Aurora Ontario Canada
Very nice electrical dynamometer setup. Loved this.
Imagine, The Dewalt 15AH pack with that cut off tool🔥
Imagine your wrist after holding it for a while.
Could y'all get ahold of a old Chicago pneumatic cp7775-6 and test it against an IR 2850? A battle of the 1 inch impacts for us 18 wheeler tire changers would be cool
I'm looking forward to a test of all the cordless angle grinders on the market like flex and Milwaukee and DeWalt and Makita
I can feel a shift in the hierarchy with the dewalt and Milwaukee lately dewalt has been taking over it seems
You got the test hammer drills you can use a chain and Jack shaft to up the gear ratio to do similar testing
I have a homemade die grinder/cut-off tool that I believe will blow any competition out of the water. It runs on an 18v Makita battery, I would love to see you dyno it on your channel.
The DCF 840 with a powerstack 1.7ah woops all day long on the M12 impact driver with a 6.0ah.
Higher voltage but the Dewalt weighs less and spins out more power not to mention the grip on Dewalt is a better feel.
Would be really interested in seeing how the Ryobi compact cut off tool compares to these.
I have one but use a dewalt 20v battery on it with an adapter.
Works great.
I'm also interested in seeing the Ryobi compared to the Milwaukee and DeWalt.
I don't own the Ryobi but owned the Ridgid (which looks like an orange Ryobi) for about 6 months and it's noticeably more powerful than my M12 Fuel. Eg. cutting 3/8" rebar would've stalled the M12 once while the Ridgid would cut it right away and 2-3 seconds faster.
I also liked the Ridgid had a variable speed trigger but I just got rid of it as I chose to keep 2 brands only. Nothing wrong with their cut off tool.
I love the Onyx 209 and the 4” big brother. Recently picked up a Ridgid Battery cut off and I like it but it goes through batteries quick. Looking at a Ryobi as well for cutting large petroleum hose with big steel wire reinforcement.
Another video round with a Ridgid and Ryobi cut-off tools and their HO batteries. Also try the HO 5ah battery on the M12 tool.
Love the new testing rig, maybe it is possible to do some more testing of angle grinders in the future? Bosch seems to be one of the few brands that lists power specifications on its website.
I have the dewalt and it has cut everything I have threw at it. I really can't complain. I have m12 and dewalt 20v but with this tool, I knew to go with dewalt.
That DeWalt is a monster! I own the Ryobi cutoff tool, it would be great to see how it ranks.
Not sure if it's worth it but you could calculate every loss in the dynamo and subtract those from the total but since friction and ventilation losses change with RPM you would have to trace a graph for every rpm you need, copper losses change with temperature so you would need to check temperature to see if it's in ±5° from calculated operating temperature and then we have iron losses so it's better to ignore them after all. Or run the dyno with a variable speed motor with known power output and graph a rough efficiency rating
And THAT is why powerstak is exciting!
People complained about the 1.7ah having short battery life (first off duh) secondly like they charge in no time at all....
This was interesting and informative as always. However, bring on some more flashlights please!
It would be interesting to see you test home computer backup systems. They make a lot of claims on how long they will last. All based on certain loads. Some of the batteries in them do not seem to last to long. Maybe you test the replacement batteries for these also. The 1500 wat range prices range widely. Amazon brand makes one for under $200 while some of APC's are in the $1,000. I love to see the results.
sounds like a really good project farm test
I have the milwaukee, definitely was disappointed in the lack of power.
Same here.
It would be interesting to see how the other TTI 18v tools compare, like the Ryobi cutoff tool and die grinders vs the Rigid cutoff tool. It's interesting that TTI hasn't made an 18v one in the Milwaukee line.
I've noticed my Ryobi cutoff will just chew through 4ah 18v packs when cutting sheet metal, and eventually "overheat" if I was to push it but that's really a task for an angle grinder, partly from grinding wheel cost. I mostly use it for lighter tasks where it's been fine.
The 4ah batteries are too small for that application, I'd bet. Angle grinder wise, my M18 is gutless and hogs through batteries faster than steel with less than a 6ah battery.
@@wiresmith2398 I'm sure the bigger batteries work better, but with a small motor I wouldn't say that they're useless unless the batteries are heavily worn.
Angle grinders definitely benefit from higher output packs, the non HP+ ryobi packs also output less current in general than the HP+ ones, so they'll always be a bit weaker.
The main issue with using a 3" cutoff tool to run though sheet metal is just heat, the motor got hot, the cutting disk got hot, the battery was hot, it's a lot of heat, but it worked.
Ive been pretty aggrivated at milwaukee for a while. The only cordless tool ive gotten from them that lives up to the hype is the brushless 4½" grinder- its a beast. The drill i have is a joke that shuts off with the slightest pressure in high gear (even with high output batteries) and the 3/8 impact is NOWHWERE NEAR 220 ft lbs. My gen1 high output 1/2" impact was pretty powerful but it's expremely wimpy handle broke and now it's obsolete, can't get a replacement.
Most of their tools are excessively large with a whole bunch of wasted space inside, when they could have been made much smaller with a little more effort to think out the packaging a little better. Almost all of the handles are made for sasquatch apparently, just in case they become more prevalant in the world and learn to use tools. The size of those sawzalls? Rediculous. And have you seen the size of the body on that m18 chainsaw? That's the best they can do?
I work in a shop where there is alot of milwaukee, and I'm always surprised at how many ket killed. That crap they pulled with the cheapened gen 3 mid torque impact was utterly shameful and it seems like they only did something because torque test called them out on it in public.
Don't get me started on their high output 9.0 / 12.0 batteries.
I'm a milwaukee guy....but come on, milwaukee, put a little more effort into sustaining that reputation of yours. Ive held off buying anything red because of the way you're relying on that past reputation instead of producing top notch tools.
I remember when Stanley Black&Decker started down that same road of sliding quality and reduced quality control with Dewalt. Hopefully the red team pulls up their socks. 🤞
@@1x4x93 yep back and decker had an industrial line that was just starting to merge with dewalt back then, and before that alot of the dewalt line was pure industrial stuff with all metal housings and cast iron tables.
I have been using Red for years and they have really went downhill lately
Imagine the dewalt on the new power stack 5.0 coming out.
I use a harbor freight 4.5 inch air cut off tool and at 135 psi, it's a genuine beast. You should test it plus it only costs 110 bucks
Please do a video on the Swench, the manual impact wrench! It would be really interesting to see how it performs!
I have not long purchased a metabo CC18 LTX BL , it is fairly basic, it is 18 volts and n values 20000 rpm . I hope it’s as good as my other metabo gear . On a side note it looks like a lot of metabo gear in the states is Hikoki
Can you test older Milwaukee impacts? Like the 2663 brushed. It just busted off 36mm axel nuts on my Honda Accord like they weren't even there, still staked too. It's been a black Friday deal at home Depot for years in a row now
They’re going to test in the 350ish range plus or minus 50 ft lbs.
If there isn’t significant amounts of rust, I’ve even managed to remove 36 mm axle nuts on my prelude with a dcf903 and adapter. (Granted it was there less than 15,000 miles and therefore recently torqued to its 181 ft lbs spec, but still.)
@@juanc5149 interesting, thanks for the numbers. It just really surprises me how this old tool still kicks ass lol atleast for my application it's great
I would like to see impact screwdrivers tested. Harbor freight, Amazon brands, wera, there is no comparison on the internet that I can find of actual torque applied to the fastener.
Like I mentioned in your last video. Too bad we don't live close to each other! 🤣
Excellent new test rig.
Larry owes me a few lunches still from years ago, good luck
flippin LARRY!
Id like to see the difference between the Milwaukee 6.0 and 5.0 high output in that cutoff wheel
The 18v Ridgid would be a good middle ground to test. Other channels have done some testing and it was more powerful than the Milwaukee. I don't think I have seen a review against a DeWalt. The Ridgid retail is $129. They are on sale now for $100. Ridgid has a ton of batteries to test against, plus all the other Octane variance.
Incredible. Wow love this new series !!!!
leaf blower motors! would be really interesting to see their power level vs performance, how much difference is just the fan design.
Makita just announced their new 3in cut off tool, I don't believe it's available to buy yet, but hopefully when it's out I'd like to see that in comparison with these tools
So the DeWalt is basically the same motor they use in their drills etc I'd guess, as the medium class ones are rated around 500W.
That's UWO vs MWO rating difference though, thanks DeWALT for the confusion
There is one thing u need to consider
that spindle motor u use to test have maybe around 70% efficiency in a way u use it
then not exactly about test , but brushless tools have 90%+ efficiency where AC tools have around 50-60%
for example metabo 240v 850w have 480w output where 850w brushless will have more than 770w output
so THAT DEWALT IS A BEAST ...it have more power than 1kw AC powered- grinder
I just got the Dewalt and also have had the Ryobi HP 3" cutter for awhile now. The Ryobi has more power than the Milwaukee, curious to see it against the Dewalt
I bought the ryobi cut off tool
Last year it has not let me down yet.
I've had a ryobi cutoff tool for a while, and found that it works okay. I bought the dewalt a couple weeks ago. First time I used it I slapped a 6ah 60v flex battery on it and was shocked at how good it is. It's stronger than my snapon, Ingersoll, and matco air powered. I also have a ryobi hp and a dewalt cordless angle grinder. The dewalt is miles ahead in that comparison as well. I use these tools professionally and they all take abuse. I think another area where dewalt shines is how well they hold up. With the exception of watching those expensive 20v batteries explode if you drop it on the shop floor.
Dewalt has really been bringing it lately.