right on, just MHO, the 2x4 that is going to hit all the traditional manufacturers are companies like uberair and such. they will bring scale to production. it won't be they much of a jump from an air taxi to a personal airplane/manned "drone"
Marty Becker: I guess you want to train in a 1960 Cessna and fall out the sky right? You get what you pay for. Technology has come forward and so should TRAINING MODULES. Wake up man. Not meaning to shove this up your ass or anything but if GA is going to strive to be "safer" you MUST train in modern aircraft. Give yourself a chance when ready. But don't put yourself at a disadvantage and put your life in danger just to save costs. Kobe Bryant died a HORRIBLE death in an outdated helicopter with no modern equipment in the fog. Funny thing is that bastard of a pilot that killed him was actually INSTRUMENT RATED plus he was an INSTRUCTOR! Its time to step forward! If you can't afford being a pilot in the new age, find something else to do.
Training in a 172 versus an SR20 or even a Diamond 40NG is required when training students that will be flying high performance aircraft. For example. Military, commercial pilots destined for the airlines, and pilots that will be flying high performance aircraft in their first paying jobs. Casual recreational pilots do not need this level so they are fine training in an SLSA or a rickety 40 yo 172.
On the one end: paranoid suburban soccer moms who want safety guards on toothbrushes. On the other end: grizzled vets who insist no amount of technology can protect any pilot who doesn't fundamentally understand the fundamentals. On the marketing end: more shininess = more sales. C-Suite goes with marketing. Young kids say more tech = more better. Everybody else agrees grizzled vets are fuddy-duddies, until everybody else gets into a bind and finally sees what grizzled vets were talking about.
Didn’t Sporty’s carry a mock gear switch with LEDs years ago? Kinda odd I’d have to get a half million dollar Cirrus for a mock gear switch that Sporty’s has for $40 if I remember right...
She sure spent a lot of time on splaining the fake gear switch. I think I saw steam come out of Paul's ears when she told him to cycle the fake gear switch. He's like, ya, ya, please, I know that its fake.
Paul says he forgot to "lower" the simulated landing gear when landing. www.avweb.com/insider/well-it-finally-happened-zachary-i-landed-gear-up/ Maybe not so obvious and boring after all.
Cirrus aircraft can be spun...they were approved for spins in Europe. The FAA didnt require spin testing due to the chute being present. The ignorance around Cirrus and spins is carried like a disease among the ignorant.
I can see the investment and expense with this airplane for the airline or military applications. But for the average weekend student, I am wondering how flying a Half Million dollar airplane would fit into his or her financial means. Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of the gadgetry included with this airplane and would enjoy training in such a ship, provided the cost would not skyrocket.
I tend to agree. Even if you can afford the higher purchase price, the extra 2-5 gph in fuel burn over the competitors could be a deal-breaker in and of itself. That could be $10K per month or more for a busy flight school.
Cirrus's Ivy McIver is really sold on the company, delivering the history of Cirrus before getting to the half-million-dollar trainer. Makes sense as a trainer for future ATPs I suppose but you can't simulate multi-engine as you can retractable landing gear. Alas, the fleet of Dutchesses and Senecas is getting mighty old. I can't help but feel near anguish for regular folks who want to take up flying now. The cost makes sense but larger economic factors have removed it from the menu of middle-class aspirations in the U.S.
Ivy Mciver is not a sales rep. She is a famous senior Cirrus CSIP and Director of the SR product line at Cirrus. She does the factory videos on all new versions of the SR line.
@@BlueBaron3339 Do you own a Cirrus? If not, you don't understand. Tens of thousands of Cirrus owners and pilots know her...she does all the SR series marketing videos and has been at the company for years. She is an expert.
@@speedomars Okay, so she does all the marketing videos but she's not a sales rep. Perhaps you felt annoyed because I referred to her as such. Odd thing to trigger a person. But we're all on short triggers these days. Sadly.
Unless things have changed a lot, these prices are almost meaningless. Flight schools don’t usually pay retail. The TRAC and Piper 100 are likely at or close to cost for a single plane. The rest are negotiation starters. Has diamond stopped making the 20? Almost every complaint about the DA20 I ever heard from schools was basically a different version of “It’s different from the 172 and we are too stupid or lazy to change or balance that against the advantages.” I really can’t understand the desire to use the Cirrus up until they offered this “bargain” version.
coolhari2000 , it’s not magic. The CAPS system is very attractive. Many of their customers don’t really know or understand that their planes would be terribly unsafe without it, and that safer planes are available without one. Even those that do like how it reassures passengers and loved ones. The cabin is comfortable for many people, though not for many others. The real key though has been their marketing. They do it themselves. They work with schools, not resellers. And most importantly, they sell a lot to non pilots. Other companies expect flight schools to sell the concept of GA, and then hope to simply grab market share. They’ve been doing it that way for a long time, and losing volume, and not changing. It’s stupid.
Thank you for the interesting review, Paul; a pleasure as always. It seems that the training environment is becoming as polarized as politics!! This [Cirrus] side being targeted at high dollar, institutionalized entities, and the other new [Piper 100] being targeted- but just barely- at the 'general aviation' market, with used Cessnas/Pipers, LSAs, etc for the richer schoolteachers, just successful businesspeople , tradespeople, etc.to fill out the "lower" ranks. This aircraft, though nice, just continues the trend which, over the years has accelerated the unfortunate seeming demise of GA. Fake Gear Switch??? Indeed. What happened to learning to fly and be competent in the aircraft and environment that one is in, and "stepping up" one type at a time. Will this same student have a "airline" type of dispatch that will give him the wx, the flight plan, and his 'permitted' fuel load as well?? Why not, "That's how they do it in the "AIRLINES/MILITARY"!!! Sorry for the rant, keep up the good work, Paul .
Most flight schools and military institutions training pilots are NOT training private pilots to fly Cessna 172 at 120kts. They are training high-end pilots destined to be ATP and combat pilots.
@@umsic86 If you are gonna be envious of Cirrus try keeping your sorry comments to yourself. Real pilots don't diss aircraft just because they can't afford them.
The comments about price never cease. My instructor bought his 172 brand new in 1979 to instruct. He paid - for the time - a fortune for it with a big loan. These planes have NEVER been cheap folks. The message boards light up in Cuba when a new Trabant is reviewed by Paul's doppleganger Luis. Obviously price only matters to you whiners as Cirrus eclipses every other manufacturer. And yes, I fly a lowly O-320 Grumman so yeah I'm not in the Cirrus club (yet)...
If you shared with us how much he actually paid, it would be very easy to convert that to today's dollars to account for inflation. I think the results of that calculation will show you why pilots are so disgusted with the price of new airplanes today.
The 1979 Cessna 172N retail price was US$22,300, which in late 2019 money (taking into account inflation, etc...) is US$79,004. So yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about. Just to add salt to the wound, the Piper J-3 Cub retail price back in 1938 was US$995, which in late 2019 money is 28,825US$.
I can honestly say she is the worst sales/marketing person i have ever heard. Why spend the money on marketing this plane and have her as the front facing person. #fail.
To be fair people watching this are highly unlikely to be shopping for aircraft for a flight school. A flight instructor using their own aircraft is unlikely to be buying one costing 500k and flight schools will be dealing directly with manufacturers for fleets prices. IMO this video is just cheap content and advertising for AvWeb not for cirrus.
@@LimaOneNiner She is not selling anything...she is answering questions and demonstrating the aircraft to Paul as he flies. It's more like a training exercise....not a sales session. Again. She is NOT a salesperson at Cirrus. She is a senior marketing manager and senior CSIP trainer. Her job is to explain the products, not sell them.
How did she land that job?? She is an (purely hypothetical) example of either nepotism *OR* one or more of the "big bosses" decided to give his "gal pal" a steady income and a way to keep her close by ... Right, Bill? That how you keep from middle age blues? Geez!
![[extra] Voando o Cirrus Vision Jet SF50](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3uhoIU2Re2Q/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm not a pilot, just an enthusiast and I want to just say thanks for these videos.
I can listen to Paul review ice melting.
I love Venice airport. Especially every year when we drive down Sarasota for the Italian American festival. LOL. These aviation videos are wonderful.
Another example of the excessive cost of flight training.
beckerm13 indeed. It’s sad, if you ask me.
right on, just MHO, the 2x4 that is going to hit all the traditional manufacturers are companies like uberair and such. they will bring scale to production. it won't be they much of a jump from an air taxi to a personal airplane/manned "drone"
Marty Becker: I guess you want to train in a 1960 Cessna and fall out the sky right? You get what you pay for. Technology has come forward and so should TRAINING MODULES. Wake up man. Not meaning to shove this up your ass or anything but if GA is going to strive to be "safer" you MUST train in modern aircraft. Give yourself a chance when ready. But don't put yourself at a disadvantage and put your life in danger just to save costs. Kobe Bryant died a HORRIBLE death in an outdated helicopter with no modern equipment in the fog. Funny thing is that bastard of a pilot that killed him was actually INSTRUMENT RATED plus he was an INSTRUCTOR! Its time to step forward! If you can't afford being a pilot in the new age, find something else to do.
Training in a 172 versus an SR20 or even a Diamond 40NG is required when training students that will be flying high performance aircraft. For example. Military, commercial pilots destined for the airlines, and pilots that will be flying high performance aircraft in their first paying jobs. Casual recreational pilots do not need this level so they are fine training in an SLSA or a rickety 40 yo 172.
On the one end: paranoid suburban soccer moms who want safety guards on toothbrushes.
On the other end: grizzled vets who insist no amount of technology can protect any pilot who doesn't fundamentally understand the fundamentals.
On the marketing end: more shininess = more sales.
C-Suite goes with marketing.
Young kids say more tech = more better.
Everybody else agrees grizzled vets are fuddy-duddies, until everybody else gets into a bind and finally sees what grizzled vets were talking about.
Didn’t Sporty’s carry a mock gear switch with LEDs years ago? Kinda odd I’d have to get a half million dollar Cirrus for a mock gear switch that Sporty’s has for $40 if I remember right...
She sure spent a lot of time on splaining the fake gear switch. I think I saw steam come out of Paul's ears when she told him to cycle the fake gear switch. He's like, ya, ya, please, I know that its fake.
Paul says he forgot to "lower" the simulated landing gear when landing.
www.avweb.com/insider/well-it-finally-happened-zachary-i-landed-gear-up/
Maybe not so obvious and boring after all.
They also installed a "Turbine PIC" button so you can log that "experience" while you're there too ;)
In fairness, he asked her to expound on the topic. :D
When did Cirrus approve this airplane for spins?
Cirrus aircraft can be spun...they were approved for spins in Europe. The FAA didnt require spin testing due to the chute being present. The ignorance around Cirrus and spins is carried like a disease among the ignorant.
@@speedomars pompous prick...
@@tp4819 Ignorance is a bitch, huh pal?
believe it or not the aicraft is only $100,00.00 the parachute costs $1000 and the cirrus emblem costs $700,000.00
I can see the investment and expense with this airplane for the airline or military applications. But for the average weekend student, I am wondering how flying a Half Million dollar airplane would fit into his or her financial means. Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of the gadgetry included with this airplane and would enjoy training in such a ship, provided the cost would not skyrocket.
I tend to agree. Even if you can afford the higher purchase price, the extra 2-5 gph in fuel burn over the competitors could be a deal-breaker in and of itself. That could be $10K per month or more for a busy flight school.
Call me pedantic and old fashioned, but I appreciated that she referred it as a plane and not an "aircraft." How's that for being totally off-subject?
Same here.
Cirrus's Ivy McIver is really sold on the company, delivering the history of Cirrus before getting to the half-million-dollar trainer. Makes sense as a trainer for future ATPs I suppose but you can't simulate multi-engine as you can retractable landing gear. Alas, the fleet of Dutchesses and Senecas is getting mighty old. I can't help but feel near anguish for regular folks who want to take up flying now. The cost makes sense but larger economic factors have removed it from the menu of middle-class aspirations in the U.S.
5:42
Ivy Mciver is not a sales rep. She is a famous senior Cirrus CSIP and Director of the SR product line at Cirrus. She does the factory videos on all new versions of the SR line.
@@speedomars We each have our own notion of what fame in aviation means.
@@BlueBaron3339 Do you own a Cirrus? If not, you don't understand. Tens of thousands of Cirrus owners and pilots know her...she does all the SR series marketing videos and has been at the company for years. She is an expert.
@@speedomars Okay, so she does all the marketing videos but she's not a sales rep. Perhaps you felt annoyed because I referred to her as such. Odd thing to trigger a person. But we're all on short triggers these days. Sadly.
Unless things have changed a lot, these prices are almost meaningless. Flight schools don’t usually pay retail. The TRAC and Piper 100 are likely at or close to cost for a single plane. The rest are negotiation starters. Has diamond stopped making the 20? Almost every complaint about the DA20 I ever heard from schools was basically a different version of “It’s different from the 172 and we are too stupid or lazy to change or balance that against the advantages.” I really can’t understand the desire to use the Cirrus up until they offered this “bargain” version.
Nunya Bidness
Somehow cirrus has redifined the GA market, they're selling single engine prop planes for a million dollars, people been lining up.
coolhari2000 , it’s not magic. The CAPS system is very attractive. Many of their customers don’t really know or understand that their planes would be terribly unsafe without it, and that safer planes are available without one. Even those that do like how it reassures passengers and loved ones. The cabin is comfortable for many people, though not for many others.
The real key though has been their marketing. They do it themselves. They work with schools, not resellers. And most importantly, they sell a lot to non pilots. Other companies expect flight schools to sell the concept of GA, and then hope to simply grab market share. They’ve been doing it that way for a long time, and losing volume, and not changing. It’s stupid.
Thank you for the interesting review, Paul; a pleasure as always. It seems that the training environment is becoming as polarized as politics!! This [Cirrus] side being targeted at high dollar, institutionalized entities, and the other new [Piper 100] being targeted- but just barely- at the 'general aviation' market, with used Cessnas/Pipers, LSAs, etc for the richer schoolteachers, just successful businesspeople , tradespeople, etc.to fill out the "lower" ranks. This aircraft, though nice, just continues the trend which, over the years has accelerated the unfortunate seeming demise of GA. Fake Gear Switch??? Indeed. What happened to learning to fly and be competent in the aircraft and environment that one is in, and "stepping up" one type at a time. Will this same student have a "airline" type of dispatch that will give him the wx, the flight plan, and his 'permitted' fuel load as well?? Why not, "That's how they do it in the "AIRLINES/MILITARY"!!! Sorry for the rant, keep up the good work, Paul .
Most flight schools and military institutions training pilots are NOT training private pilots to fly Cessna 172 at 120kts. They are training high-end pilots destined to be ATP and combat pilots.
I agree with Paul, these pilots are being spoon fed to go directly to the airlines, no aviation fundamentals taught here
people want money and jobs can you blame them
All I hear is “ummmmm”
Cirrus SR’s self centering stick is dangerous
As a non-pilot yourself your opinions are laughably ignorant.
@@speedomars I am a pilot.. nice argument
@@speedomars YT needs an ignore list
@@umsic86 If you are gonna be envious of Cirrus try keeping your sorry comments to yourself. Real pilots don't diss aircraft just because they can't afford them.
@@speedomars lol you're a childish troll.. end of transaction, goodbye!
Lol, just in time to fight over the 3 people who will complete pilot training in 2020...
The comments about price never cease. My instructor bought his 172 brand new in 1979 to instruct. He paid - for the time - a fortune for it with a big loan. These planes have NEVER been cheap folks. The message boards light up in Cuba when a new Trabant is reviewed by Paul's doppleganger Luis. Obviously price only matters to you whiners as Cirrus eclipses every other manufacturer. And yes, I fly a lowly O-320 Grumman so yeah I'm not in the Cirrus club (yet)...
If you shared with us how much he actually paid, it would be very easy to convert that to today's dollars to account for inflation. I think the results of that calculation will show you why pilots are so disgusted with the price of new airplanes today.
The 1979 Cessna 172N retail price was US$22,300, which in late 2019 money (taking into account inflation, etc...) is US$79,004.
So yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Just to add salt to the wound, the Piper J-3 Cub retail price back in 1938 was US$995, which in late 2019 money is 28,825US$.
A new Cessna 172 is $480k.
Sling Aircraft
I can honestly say she is the worst sales/marketing person i have ever heard. Why spend the money on marketing this plane and have her as the front facing person. #fail.
To be fair people watching this are highly unlikely to be shopping for aircraft for a flight school. A flight instructor using their own aircraft is unlikely to be buying one costing 500k and flight schools will be dealing directly with manufacturers for fleets prices. IMO this video is just cheap content and advertising for AvWeb not for cirrus.
Ivy Mciver is the Director of the SR product line. She is a senior CSIP and expert on the aircraft.
@@speedomars what's your point. Her qualifications really dont matter if she is not able to sell it. Her pitch is terrible.
@@LimaOneNiner She is not selling anything...she is answering questions and demonstrating the aircraft to Paul as he flies. It's more like a training exercise....not a sales session. Again. She is NOT a salesperson at Cirrus. She is a senior marketing manager and senior CSIP trainer. Her job is to explain the products, not sell them.
How did she land that job??
She is an (purely hypothetical) example of either nepotism *OR* one or more of the "big bosses"
decided to give his "gal pal" a steady income and a way to keep her close by ...
Right, Bill? That how you keep from middle age blues?
Geez!
Ivy Mciver has more flying hours than you will have if you lived to be 90 and got your pilot cert ten years ago.