Ebike brands switching from Shimano to Bosch, Bike Inventory update, Ebike Access in National Forest
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
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Bosch has huge engineering chops. It’s no contest technology wise. World’s largest automotive supplier. They even make semiconductors!
Thanks! This was a good overview of the current situation and a bit of the future as well. Oh yeah, nothing bad happens when we ride our bikes :-)
Very true!
So for GT, Santa Cruz, Cannondale, Focus, Rotwild, Storck there might another reason as well to choose Bosch for full power e-bikes and Fazua ( which is 100% owned by Porsche) for their light weight. All companies above are part of a joint venture between the Pon Holding and Porsche. So it might look like many companies switch to Bosch but actually it only was one centralised decision (in that particular case). Btw Porsche is planning to offer a complete e-bike system in the future complete with Porsche branded motors, so I am expecting the name fazua to vanish after some time.
Edit: The Pon Holding also is share holder of the Accell Group (ghost, Haibike, Lapierre, Koga, Diamandback)
Good theory. But I honestly don't think there is ANY CHANCE that Pon Holdings will tell the Santa Cruz Bikes product manager to switch motor brands because of a global relationship.
Pon Holdings is good at company structure and financial P/L practices. Run a tight and profitable ship. The last thing they will and could do is tell the product experts how to build their product and choose this component over another. That is a sure way to kill a subsidiary and lose the best employees and category experts.
@@EMTBReview good point
Francis, great updates. Especially the report on continued legalization of trails for eMTBs. One problem is that for many outside the cycling industry, when they think of e-bikes, they are picturing Sur-Ron type bikes. There needs to be an increased effort to educate the public on Class 1 eMTBs and separate them out from the rest when we are discussing trail advocacy. We have some work to do to get Class 1 eMTBs legal on all multi-use trails, and this education is part of the solution.
Absolutely agreed.
love these updates Francis! 😀
I know it's good when even I am entertained listening to my own banter.
Stoked to make my way back to CA and hit some trails on my EB that is used to suffer on in my younger days lol
Yeah, you go back to the Norcal 3000 foot climbs and they are actually fun and manageable now. So do it twice and ride the next day too!
I love my Surly Skid Loader with Bosch Mid-Drive! I'm fat will take me up any HILL! I WATCH all you channels thanks for all the good videos!
I'm so, so stoked. My backdrop is rc's, drones, and a bike fork :)
My story exactly, Chris!
Yeah go Chris. Tell those skinny little race horses we are Clydesdale horses. I'm old and chunky and the ebike has kept me in the cycling game for longer. I prefer to ride the DH bike at gondola or lift assisted venues as this is an adrenalin rush every time you drop in compared to general cycling.
Thank you friend, very important information ,more confident with BOSCH 😎
You bet. They've really built up their infrastructure in the US. and they've evolved their products each and every year!!
Yep, was just up on Corral riding acoustic yesterday, didn't know the festival was happening. They've allowed class 1 on Corral prior, but TAMBA was shuttling for the event and putting class 1s on Armstrong Connector saying the legalization is happening soonish. Anywhere people shuttle should have instantly allowed class 1, but no. When it does, will be looking to loop Toads from the Armstrong saddle side. The Nevada side has been allowing class 1 for a couple years already.
Very good share, thank you.
I’m looking forward to the pinion systems coming to the US, but I imagine this inventory system is going to hold that up.
You wont see pinion until 2026-2027 at the soonest. None of their electronics are U.S. compliant and do not have a support network in place. This is information from US dealers and from pinion.
Awesome Stuff. Keep it up.
Thanks, will do!
I just ordered a Shimano EP801 (yt decoy mx), and I've been riding a Gen 2 bosch (trek Rail) for last 4 years. Per the early reviews the EP801 with the latest flash is nearly as strong as the Bosch Race and it can be found in cheaper bikes. I'm looking forward to have app tuning options vs my current bosch.
The GEN four Bosch motor really is there competitive offer in this market. Previous generations were pretty awful.
Totally agree with all your thoughts and findings. Bosch is the way to go now. I’m seeing some crazy bike deal from Specialized, Whyte, Trek, Cube and more in the UK.
Where does that leave Bafang then? An industry titan that cut their teeth 20 yearrs ago. Their production and product development facilities are unrivaled.
Yeah, they really are the leader in motor an ecosystem technology these days
I recently was in Italy, bought a package to see the Giro d'Italia. 2 stages, and 3 rides. Because I have MS I rode with and ebike, I was the first in 2017, before that only "analogic" road bikes. Now, at least 40% are ebikes. People with disabilities, old people, we need ebikes. They are starting to realize that ebikes are to vilains, they are means to an end!!!
So very good to hear. Ebikes enable folks to get outside, to adventure, and to live
I just turn 65 and hoping to get 10 more years of emtb 😊😊
Most of the time I'm riding my MAHLE-equipped gravel bikes without ANY assist. Maybe I'm getting a better workout? BUT when I used to shift into the "granny ring" on my triple-equipped "acoustic" bikes for a steep climb it's LEVEL 1 now. And I don't fear "biting off more than I can chew" for a ride anymore if I'm short of fitness. I just go.. with the assist in reserve just-in-case. The piece-of-mind for this old geezer is priceless!
More and more are switching to Brose as well... even Sram took & rebranded it as its own.
Bosch motor broken in Eu takes a month to change, Brose motor took in service done for an hour.
Repairing and servicing are two different things.
Great to hear about Brose. Nice, rattle, free system. I hope they fix their belt issues though.
@@sijmes yep, i didnt evem want to mention repairing as Brose motors are repearable for a small amount... there was a video not long ago on embn about it if you need more info.
How many positions has the encoder on the 801 and cx race?
Shimano EP801 has 3 riding level modes. Bosch CX has 4.
@@EMTBReview encoder not ride modes.
Michigan gets legalized next month for class 1 e-mtb
Rrrrrright? Progress everywhere, everyday.
Oh wow, game changer in the scheme of things with worldwide motor manufacturers, what this video is about. 😮💨
Good new about access for e-mountain bikes! Here in Colorado, the "haters" are deminishing! Fuita 18 road is open as of last year. Closure is not being enforced in the west (as far as I know).
I bought a Santa Cruz Heckler SL for the stealth. So far so good!
But I still ride my Mondraker Level R, with big travel and Bosch on mostly moto trails.
Hopefully everything will change after the election.
So very, very good to hear. The outcome is not in doubt. But how long is the issue as the battle is won region by region.
Good to see. I am in Canada and similar things happening here too, except that such trails are open to Class 1 e-bikes (pedal-assisted, speed-limited and no throttle) only. That is ok with me.
I've got two BAFANG BBSHD KITS and they are bulletproof, How do I know, After having multiple crashes on both bikes fitted with the BBSHD, They always endure the accidents with only a magnet or battery needs to be reconnected, Have NO experience with the other brands.
Very good company in terms of quality and value.
I also foresee more brands to use the new SRAM powertrain motor system
That's interesting. Cool they are trying to innovate.
@@EMTBReview the Brose mag 2.2 has been through years of development, while still not completely worry free, they have one of the largest networks for warranty, replacement and report from third party
@@EMTBReview also when do you think the USA market will get Pinion ebikes? The Nicolai looks awesome!
#i dont know what your talking about rattle my bosch cx motor does not rattle Can you please explain
When you're coasting down a very rocky, bumpy descent, the Bosch motor will rattle like there's a few loose ball bearings inside the motor.
What do you know about Yamaha motors perfom?
Yamaha motors seem just ok. A version of it is used in Giant bikes. Seems robust and reliable but nothing special. Would love to see more updates and innovation from them.
We have 2 Yamaha PWX2 Giant Trance E+1 ebikes brought new at the beginning of 2019. They are a little noisier than other bikes but you get used to it and the good thing is you can hear the motor strain etc and adjust gears quickly. Mine is used harder than my wives one and at over 2000km i had the motor pulled apart and inspected. One of the 2 main bearings was just slightly rough so they were replaced. Also while it was apart the fibre drive cog was replaced with an oem one as a precaution. Total cost including labour was $700 New Zealand Dollars. Also the Panasonic battery was at 95% health. Goes really well but doesnt like a really high cadence.
and yet............. the retail prices are still CRAZY!!!
What do you expect for a bike with a motor, that is totally fun to ride? The parts cost money. Either way keep shopping you’ll find a deal.
yeah, the msrp's need to drop. Their days are numbered for sure.
$10-$18k ebikes need to go away.
Not really went down quite a lot. You can get great machine for under 4k
Yes, but compare to a motorcycle 😮😮@@kanutecarson1
I didn't even know Shimano made ebike motors. I've only ever heard of Bosch.
Yeah, they are the dominant player since almost every bike manufacturer already got drivetrain parts from them.
Eagerly waiting turbo levo gen4 but if they can’t get rid of all the gen3 it might be a wait time. Maybe better to get a discounted gen3 🤔
Yeah, Gen3 discounts have switched many folks over to the ebike camp. And gained them many new Specialized fans.
Brose has best support
Good to hear
Not just e-bike manufacturers moving away from "Shimano".
It's 2nd rate junk in general and so far behind the competition
I wouldn't say they're garbage but they are just so slow moving in terms of trends and innovation to address the need of the true enthusiasts.
@@EMTBReview Their brakes are garbage for sure...
@@kyledavis635 Yeah i put the shit M9000 so called brakes in the forking rubbish bin and brought HOPE TECH 3 E4 awesome awesome brakes
This post was made by the shimano hater gang
Am lean and fit and ride both MTB and eMTB. I've noticed every MTBer who gets mad at me for riding an ebike is an older guy with pot belly and boobs. Seems to me they are projecting their fitness insecurities on me.
Ha, ha... yeah, long-time mountain bikers are the worst. They dream of their glory days 20 years ago and refuse any kind of change even as their riding and health has really declined.
At least they ride. What gets me is haters who don't even ride anymore.
Shimano. Battery!!! Biggest issue by far
To small plus no range extender options
Absolutely!!!! That's an issue that puts many bikes out of consideration for the educated enthusiast thinking about the future of their ebike purchase.
Orbea Rise uses Shimano and has a range extender available.
@@burnx45 Urrun too
The problem is that bikes are way overpriced to begin with.
As far as the 'Inventory Problems'.... yes.
True that
Unfortunately people with e motos are poaching class 1 trails and this will be a problem.
Definitely a problem. We as ebikers need to call them out.
wait a minute.... this isn't an RC review!!!!
Right? This is one of my other interests.
Don't agree at all! I have 3 ebikes all with the shimano and the system is way better than the bosch.Many km/miles in and no problem. The EP801 is a beast! I have friends that have the latest bosch and prefer the Shimano as well. The app is better is more tunable than the Bosch. Not saying that the Bosch is bad, just saying that is this is pure marketing. Some professional riders using bosch are opening their motors after a few hours in... so Just have fun and enjoy the trails no matter what motor you are in! All the motors will need maintenance.
Thank you very much for your input as it is appreciated. I feel like you would be in a much better position to compare the motors if you owned a bike with the Bosch CXGEN4.
The Bosch GEN four is better, because of the following reasons:
- The Bosch is faster and stronger. It has more torque iand pulls through a wider range off RPMs.
-the Bosch motor has a better torque sensor with higher resolution. This allows it to turn on faster and delivers a more natural riding feel.
-Bosch is more battery efficient and it has a couple modes that are automatic, and go from low assist to full assist, allowing less shifting of modes and less dependency on turbo mode.
- Bosch now has 600 W our batteries and 750 W hour batteries. And these are compatible with the 250 W hour extender. Thus a rider can have 950 whours if they choose.
-The switches and iPhone app of the bosch are better. They have wireless Bluetooth switches and battery indicators that are integrated on the bike frame top tube. They have various display options as well.
Shimano is a good and reliable system but they are not progressing fast enough. The mid power options of Bosch, and there services support are key considerations as well.
@@EMTBReview I know the Bosch system very well as I own a orbea wild, gen 4. So I’m in a good position. All motors have good and less good stuff. When I received my Orbea I had to play with the maps because from stock it drained my battery out. This is like talking about brands etc each person and individual has different opinions and it all dependes on the riding style and what matters the most. If you do many climbs long rides you have to play with maps as well. Regarding the battery’s mine is a 900w. No need to have range extenders . All the best !
Do you work for Shinano?
@@PedroMartinsEnduro I wish my santa and YT cruz had bosch motors! The Shimano EP801 lacks torque and very inefficient ( have a Bullit and a Decoy). Not to mention that the bosch motor is much more quiet. So you have 4 ebikes (3 with shimano and 1 with Bosch)??? Your feedback in interesting because nobody I know (including myself) prefers the Bosch after riding one. The shimano is not bad but the bosch is just that much better IMHO.
@@mr2timer100 Like I said is all about riding preferences and ride styles. You cannot like it but is my personal opinion. Just ride! Peace!
Bosch… superior battery range
Yeah, better range and they have options now with 750wh, 400, 630 and all compatible with the 250wh add on
Superior mode software too. EMTB and AUTO mode!
@@paulmaag6958 Yeah, the auto modes actually save battery and increase range. The reason is the rider doesn't become dependent and used to Turbo mode. Boost power is only used when needed.
If its old stock discounted or new stock my question is DO PEOPLE WANT TO BUY THE BIKES and is the price irrelevant. Maybe the scamming ebike prices of very recent years means people have migrated to other sports and changed their habits. Me personally i will not update my 2019 ebike. If it dies fuck its going in the bin. I will spend more time kayaking and boating with my puppies.
Good share, thank you. There are hardcore riders who will always ride and buy. There are many on the fringe too with other hobbies
504 error that's all yamaha for me
Really huh? Introduced many years ago, Yamaha motors have very little penetration in the market.
Totally agree 👍🏽
Rrrrright? Great minds think alike
the bosch smart system is not reliable , especially the batteries
Here in Germany literally millions of normal e-bikes are used for daily commuting, shopping etc. Almost every brand moved to Bosch in recent years because they are the most reliable. They do it because the numbers tell them to.
This is the opposite of my experience with hundreds of ebikes and riders in my circle.