I’ll be honest, when you said that Cortana did some horrible stuff and killed a lot of people. I was like, “Huh? In the books or what?” And then I remembered, Halo 5. I legit forgot about that.
What I love about the Didact in Halo 4 is this Forerunner madman is a dark reflection of what the Master Chief could’ve been - A soulless machine that fight wars and forsaking his humanity.
@@a.jthomas6132nope, the idea that the Didact could be a harbinger of what Chief could become is a thought that will dwell and grow in my mind as I turn it over and consider all the ramifications.
@@Bastion70 I have read the previews of that book, and I can see there is some similarities of them two. Both John and the Didact are victims of systems that is beyond their own control, and both are becoming child soldiers.
True but she has not the best intentions. Especially abducting children for the SPARTAN II program and indoctrinate them. That’s what I called robbing them from their childhood. No wonder Mirenda and her father Jacob were distance from Halsey.
26:45 Don't forget. The Cortana who found the Domain was a Cortana FRAGMENT. This Cortana was NOT whole. She was NOT the Cortana we knew, but an incomplete piece. The rest of her DIED on the Composer, when Master Chief detonated the bomb.
I love the tragedy of halseys character, she didnt ask for her inspiration and almost psychic automatic genius, she had no idea all of her crimes were the true necessary evils she wanted them to be after all. She doesn't know that every impulse she ever had her entire life was planned and seeded a millenia ago and she just has to live with herself. She sacrificed so much for humanities survival, everything including her own character. Love halo, man. Amazing video. Never stop bro.
In regards to the gravemind, it is ultimately the job of the parent to shepard the child. If the child is bad, it is because of a failing of the parent. So, yeah it is the precursors fault that the forerunners were upstart brats, and can't be used as a defense for the gravemind's actions. I found all of this to be super interesting. Jugding this character based off the totality of their lives is a rather interesting approach, as most people will say that the diact is evil, without the consideration that he was, like cortana, sick... effectively. Cortana is usally given a pass so using her as a comparison was wise, i think.
I would agree for the most part regarding children. To an extent though, people will be who they’ll be. In my own personal life, I’ve seen people be rotten despite having good parents and vice versa. It’s certainly a factor but there’s more to it than that. And thanks btw
The Precursors were like our Greatest Generation, they had achieved much, and the Forerunners are Boomers, self-righteous, impudent, and lack perspective on their own origin. They were given everything, the apple of their parents' eye, and threw a tantrum.
@@WoodyisasexybeastI was going to add that obviously parenting has a huge impact on development, but there's a myriad of other factors that go into the decisions people intuitively make least of which is their own free will. And since the chemicals in our brain move much faster than we can consciously think, do we really have free will if our minds are already made up before we make them?
I don't understand why Halsey immediately jumped to kidnapping children, Orion, while overall unsuccessful, showed promise. and as shown with the Spartan 4's, Adults can have significant changes and be successful. while she obviously wouldn't have had that degree of success (not immediately anyway), she could have at least improved upon Orion, there was no reason to immediately jump to kidnapping, im sure Plenty of Humans (Probably ODST's and other Elite soldiers of humanity) would volunteer for such a thing, as the same was done with Orion. also, I wouldn't mind seeing more videos like this, it was a nice video
ONI demanded super soldiers to crush imminent human rebellion, and Halsey realised that the only way (at the time) to create the ultimate soldier who would be unyielding loyal to the UNSC is to indoctrinate children at age 6 and raise them into military life. After 8 years of training, they would have the best chances of surviving the Augmentation process, even though ironically, so many died. The chemical Augmentations designed for the Spartan IVs was built on the success of the S-II and S-III programs. Sorry for the long response, I'm skipping over so much more, but that's the reason why Haksy needed to use children; to create the ultimate soldier to crush the human rebels. It just happened by chance that the Covenant showed up right when the S-IIs were ready.
She chose children because their bodies were more easily adaptable to augmentations compared to adults. The Spartan 4’s don’t make much sense but hey 343’s Halo makes no sense anyways.
@@aaroneclipse514the 4s make perfect sense as the next logical sense for the spartan program, building off the 2s and 3s success. The idea that the UNSC would just keep using kidnapped kids and war orphans for their super soldier program and not try and improve the technology to the point where basically anyone could become a spartan would be stupid and a great way to get more worlds to rebel against them. The issue is 343 never bothered to come up with a proper backstory for the 4s like depending on where you look the 4s were either started before the events of halo 1 and first deployed during the battle of earth but then other lore says that the 4s were trained by jun AFTER the battle of earth and the end of the war and were based on a weird attempt to make a kind of spartan that didn’t need armor or some shit. 343 literally just made shit up as they went along
@ The 4s never made sense to me for three reasons: (1) the augmentations could only work on younger more adaptable bodies, (2) ONI couldn’t fund the Mjolnir armor for the Spartan 3s but can for the 4s, and (3) what’s the point of having ODSTs if the 4s imply that literally anyone can be a Spartan? I did actually read the New Blood book which explained some of the origins on the Spartan 4’s, them being ODSTs who were offered a spot by Jun was a great idea, but the 4s themselves make the 2 and 3s feel trivial.
Arbiter is definitely a more complicated character when judging morality, but the fact that he's been fighting to right the wrong he'd done as much as possible once the prophets' lies became clear to him shows that he's no doubt an honorable person.
Why Microsoft doesn’t give Master Chief a break and give us a game staring Thel Vadam. Playing as The Arbiter again would be fun, honestly just off putting that Microsoft is continuously neglecting Halo and the stories that can be made into games.
I think their decision to not enlist other studios and branch out into all sorts of other games a la Mario will go down as one of the biggest management failures in video game history. Even some rando fan like me has so many ideas that they could have at least tried.
Thanks a lot. I will continue to do so. You can dislike post Bungie lore all you want but pretending it doesn’t exist is silly. Besides, I really enjoy a lot of the newer lore.
I think John made the right move for Johnson. If a super advanced race like the Forerunners couldn't do it there's a good chance that ONI wouldn't find anything.
Small thing: the ODSTs were hostile towards John because he took the safety pin out of one of the weights (he was testing the gravity in the room) and it smashed on of the ODSTs foot.
Don't forget, by the time of Halo 3, Truth knew what the rings did. He was well aware of what firing them would do. His plan was to fire the rings, kill all life in the galaxy, and then rule over what was left, i.e, who was on the ark with him, and life that would grow again in the newly wiped galaxy as a god. The most heinous crime of all.
28:43 You should note that Didact also helped Cortana come to her sense, so it wasn't solely her love for John. Didact played a big role in changing her. Great video!
"Was this child soldier a good person" is kinds funny to me idk why Okay, the spartans saving humanity doesnt make halsey not a shitty person,she still came up with the idea to kidnap children
was the arbiters actions bad? absolutely...Is he HIMSELF a bad guy? no..he didnt have much of a choice with anything, and if he refused the council wouldve called him a heretic and just killed him off. The shan shyuum knew eventually the elites would question the actions in which they were doing and eventually rebel, hence why they saw Jar Witanree a HUGE problem. They knew elites were bound to their honor of battle and respect, and the prophets just wanted to use them like mindless toys, keep them in the dark, lie to them.
great video, dude. I'd love to see a video on gray team considering their roll as way way behind enemy lines spartan 2s. I haven't seen anyone on youtube talk about them.
I realized something while watching this video and that the logic plague is a way the gravemind shares his own madness. The precursors are tricky to understand because there some theories out there that make to precursors look awful and horrifying if they are true and the Gravemind/primordial himself leaned into one of those theories giving it more evidence that it might actually be true.
If he didn't, they would have replaced him with someone that would. When he found out that he had done humanity wrong he turned on the covenant almost immediately. This is the entire reason why the prophets were trying to replace the elites with the brutes in the first place. Elites like Thel were honor bound and their loyalty was not absolute. Thel is proof of that.
Yes, arbiter glassing planets = bad. Bad arbiter! BUT! Arbiter seeing the error of his ways and understanding that what he did was wrong and even going so far to see and appreciate a sort of honor within his former blood enemy = good. Hell half of humanist can't even get to this second part; don't demonstrate growth like this. I can get behind arbiter. Where I struggle more is with anything John has done in the name of duty that he felt at the time wasn't quite right. Like how he was setup after augmentation in the gym. He could have always walked away - even using some amount of force to make it happen without causing so much harm and killing one of the ODSTs.
@@pixelpusher2219 He did so under false pretenses, having been fed lies about humans desecrating perceived holy sites that his entire understanding of the universe was built on. He *was* one of "the" bad guys, but he is not "*a* bad guy."
I think the didact was still a bad guy. The forerunners were villains of the ancient past and the didact was in a position of power. He was most certainly complacent in some of their most heinous acts against ancient humanity.
Loved your video. In fact, I always been fascinated this topic for a while when it comes to the morality of characters in the lore From the halo franchise. Outside of halo Maybe you should do the same moral Dissection on other Sci fi gaming franchises Like another Microsoft prosperity Gears of war (At least when it comes to the moral of the characters.) and A Great But sadly, dead franchise dead space! Along with mass effect I think all three Franchisees are worth moral Dissection videos When it comes to their Respective characters from the main to minor ones? if not, then you should do a part two of Halo Heroes and Villains moral Dissection as a full series Especially when it comes to seeing other characters from the lore whether they are from the games and books. In fact, I would love to see how would you put Jilan al-Cygni from Contact Harvest and Veronica Dare from Halo 3 ODST Who despite both being awesome characters In their own right in our presented in a good light in general, It doesn’t change the fact that they are Members of ONI One of the most evil organizations in the lore. I’m curious if you consider both characters “good” one agents at least compared to Margaret Parangosky and John Smith, the latter of which Is a character from the Mona Lisa!
Funnily enough, this entire concept spawned from my time with Baldur’s Gate III and was an idea I had been applying to that game. Originally, that was the video I wanted to make and probably still will at some point but in the end, I decided it would make more sense for me to apply this concept to Halo first. I love Gears and Dead Space and would love to expand beyond Halo to other series as you suggested. Ideally, this could become a regular series, which was my intention when creating this. Off the top of my head, I think they’d both probably be classified as “good”.
@@Woodyisasexybeast Awesome, I think it would be nice to see how would classified other characters like Lord Hood from Halo or in other franchises like Isaac Clarke from Dead Space or even it's other medias like Isabella Cho, (She was a good person don't give me wrong her only flaw she that kinda aware of what the markers would do or at least the mission itself not the full extent of what the marker would do plus you have the Nolan thing.) Nickolas Kuttner (I kinda feel very sorry for him given most of his actions were influence by the Marker so I don't he was a bad guy at all plus I loved Christopher Judge as the voice for this character.) from Dead Space: Aftermath and Alissa Vincent from Dead Space: Downfall. (Don't give me wrong she is a great character and a badass at the same her actions unintentionally doomed everyone and make the situation worse, granted she didn't know about the Necromorphs and the Marker but still Dr Kyne was the only smart person in the ship. (Fun Fact: he was voiced by the voice actor who did Ur Didact in Halo 4.) Now moving to Gears obvious you have the big man himself Marcus Fennix, but you also other characters like Anya Stroud who don't give me is a great character and a badass but at the same she is a officer to the cog and was aware of the hammer strikes same with Hoffman, Prescott, and Adam Fennix, (the latter of which I see is a Oppenheimer type character similar to Galen Erso from Rogue One in fact both created weapons of mass destruction for Fennix you have the Hammer Strikes and the Death Star for Galen.) But overall I would loved it for this being the next series where you classfield every character from Halo Lore (Whether it is from The Games or books, comics, and even short stories.) and other franchises like Dead Space and Gears. I hope you have an excellent new year!
I personally don't count any 343 games as cannon. Or their changes to Halo's original lore. Forrunners are human, Cortana isn't evil. Rampancy isn't AI schizophrenia. I just personally don't think any of the changes made make any sense, and many beloved characters are victims of 343's character assassinations.
I wonder if master chief was somehow confronted with the same realization as the arbiter (ie your religion is wrong you're waging an unjust war, etc) if he would've reacted the same. There's some characterization in the 343 games but In the bungie games he's fairly morally rigid and isn't given much opportunity to change. I don't like pretending that 343 games exist but In 5 he essentially denies cortana is bad and goes rogue. He's near perfect on the battlefield but it's really about the only moral decision we see him faced with and he fails. Ultimately, arbiter was loyal to the end yet a product of his situation and had the strength to face that and atone. chief had less opportunity but really kinda dropped the ball with what he had. I feel like arbiter is not only a better story but also probably a better "person"
Thumbnail saying the arbiter is actually a good person, listen I love the guy but I wouldn’t call Thel Vadam a good person he has good intentions but his actions of the pst speaks for his outlook her destroyed 8 human worlds and killed 1 billion humans, he’s known as destroyer by humanity, he’s now in a redeeming period but Thel Vadam isn’t a good person.
Halsey being a utilitarian, she is kind of excluded from being judged ethically. Acting like a machine gets you judged like a machine, that is not at all.
I'd agree with you if she were an actual machine. But she is not. And should face the consequences of her decisions same as all of us. Even if she were "utilitarian" (maybe you'd also say very very practical?) as you put it, our personalities nor our ethics shed our culpability.
@SmooreMC85 maybe, maybe not. I agree that in the real world she should be held accountable for the horrors she put hundreds of children through, but as the same as with the arbiter not being judged for glassing many human worlds because he strictly followed the ethics of his religion, Halsey can claim that she followed the ethics of the ends justifying the means. Following a strict code or protocol i feel kind of exempts you from getting any credit, for good or ill. Of course Halsey isnt a machine and has real feelings about her actions, but she makes an effort to hide her emotions and always act in accordance with her machiavellian ethics. Rarely (if at all) does she do anything self sacrificial or put others ahead of herself. She therefore, in my view, doesnt qualify to be judged from an ethical standpoint.
@@zodfox9321 Well written. Can you point to a real life example of what you've described? I'm sure there are some but I'm drawing a blank. And thanks, now I'm going to be up all night comparing Arby glassing planets for religion against Halsey abducting children (to simplify her wrongs a bit) in the name of saving humanity : )
& people say Halo lore isn't deep. 😂 I think it's up there with Game Of Thrones, The Expanse & even Dune in terms of complexity of politics & character development.
Some.people say that halo can be saved, but what has been already done cannot be changed, like cortana. Nothing will ever changed the fact that she literally murdered billioms of brutes and other species, 343 litwrally turned he rinto another person. They made such drastix ridiculous changes to the story (like humanity and galaxy being in chaos because of the created), that cant be fixed anymore without any reason that wasnt made out of the blue like a plot tool. If halo studios ever do any good to the story they will be building on an already weak base. I will never like cortana again even if she died "well".
I think what's worse than them turning Cortana into a cartoon supervillain and then killing her off camera or something, is how they try to replace her with the weapon in Halo Infinite. It's like killing your best friend and then replacing her with a younger clone of herself. They might look the same and act similar, but it's not the same person. It's just a cruel joke.
You know that they're rebooting it right? So, technically this next will be whatever it's going to be. _Also,_ you can compartmentalize the series on account of their context. Like yes, the 343 era got messed up, but the Bungie era is still there and in its context, all the original characterization stands, and the Forerunners are human. Not that that _justifies_ how badly 343 messed up the series. It's just a different way of thinking about it that might be a little less painful for you.
@ThatTallBrendan It just sucks seeing what's happened to one of my favourites. It's like having a beloved childhood friend and then as adults seeing them become a corrupt politician. When you love something you don't like seeing what you love about it changed. And Halo has changed for the worse in my opinion. In subjective ways like the art style, and in more objective ways like the microtransactions. I feel as if the series has lost its very soul. And it's not alone in that. Also, you say they're rebooting it?
Everything written by Microsoft is corporate fanfiction. The Prophet of Truth didn't suppress the truth because he was solely power hungry, they still thought the Halo array was the path to godhood. There is supposed to be a machine on Earth, where one Man can be seated and guide the evolution of the galaxy. Truth wanted to be the one seated there. MS retconned this out because they have no perspective or respect for the work of others.
Halsey's character is the victim of ONI propaganda because she offended Parengoski. You covered her actions pretty accurately, but Microsoft wrote in a smear campaign, especially by Karen Traviss' works.
A few did, actually. “More than 25 years ago, when I was a second lieutenant, the people who invented Chief thought it would be fun to test their new pet weapon on some real meat. They engineered a situation in which four of my Marines would run into your friend, take offense at something he did, and try to teach him a lesson. Well, guess what? The plan worked perfectly. The plan sucked my people in, and the freak not only kicked the hell out of them, he left them dead-beaten to death in a goddamned ship’s gymnasium.” - page 134 of The Flood
@@Woodyisasexybeast You're quoting Major Silva whose bias against the Spartans is made on ious, and though William C. Dietz doesn't obviously make use unreliable narrators, I never trusted what Silva says, and, if you read the fight scene, the injuries of at least two of those ODSTs were survivable. It's also possible Silva's response is a mix of bias and truth, he could be referencing the two possibly killed ODSTs with hyperbole, implying John had killed everyone in order to hurt Masterchief's feelings more.
Good villains are relatable not sensible. I hate when villians are designed to “make sense”. The reason a villian is a villian is because something about their mentality doesn’t make any sense. Trying so hard to get the audience to make sense of your actions makes a shitty villian. I never liked MCU Thanos for that reason. He’s not relatable at all and tries to hard to make sense of his desires to the characters and audience. His Comic counterpart on the other hand is opposite to that. His desires and reasoning are relatable. His feelings are relatable. But we all know his actions make no sense for his desired goal.
I would argue that the exact same thing could be said about MCU Thanos. His strategy makes sense, sure but when you really analyze it, everything starts to fall apart. The Infinity stones could be used in literally any other way but he decides to use them to kill. It’s still completely insane
Morality is objective. There are objectives to it. I get this is not a philosophy channel. I just have to point that out to disagree. You otherwise are on point with your assessments of the morality of characters.
Morality is subjective. Certain religious zealots believe that killing in the name of their god is morally acceptable. Many others would disagree with that.
the didact during the forerunner era is the coolest character. halo 4 fumbled the bag with him. although i understand why he came out the cryptum full of bloodlust for humanity
No, morality is subjective. Different people have differing views on what is or is not immoral. Religious zealots believe killing in the name of their god is not immoral. Many others would disagree.
Dude stop referencing 343 lore it’s bad and not canon. Humans ARE the forerunners that is what bungie intended and while it is kind of a lazy cop out it’s the direction they wanted to go.
Those is like watching someone say the start wars prequels aren't canon. I don't like them but I can't choose to say their not canon. Plus, don't they own the franchise?
I agree with you. I really don't like what 343 has done. They betrayed Halo just like their namesake betrayed the chief. But unfortunately, it is canon. But it's not canon to Bungie's Halo.
@@Woodyisasexybeast 343 Industries lore literally can't be canon, since it contradicts the groundwork/foundation of Halo. Humans need to be forerunner for the story to make sense, because that's how Bungie wrote it.
"Some the worst thing imagine were done with best of intentions." -Dr Alan Grant😂 is the first thing that comes to mind when I think Dr Halsey and her track record.
I’ll be honest, when you said that Cortana did some horrible stuff and killed a lot of people. I was like, “Huh? In the books or what?”
And then I remembered, Halo 5. I legit forgot about that.
Almost as if Halo ended at 3
@denifnaf5874 even if H5 was 100% doodoo ass fart (I think it has *some* redeemable qualities) H4 is just too good to throw out
@@Woodyisasexybeasthalo 4 has a beautiful story, and if it had book ended the series I think I would have been a lot happier with halo as a series.
That’s cause 4 and 5 isn’t lore
And halo infinite
What I love about the Didact in Halo 4 is this Forerunner madman is a dark reflection of what the Master Chief could’ve been - A soulless machine that fight wars and forsaking his humanity.
Good call I never put that together. This is a thought that's gonna fester.
@@SmooreMC85 don’t you mean “faster”? You may want to re-edit your comment.
@@a.jthomas6132nope, the idea that the Didact could be a harbinger of what Chief could become is a thought that will dwell and grow in my mind as I turn it over and consider all the ramifications.
IDk if you have read Epitaph yet but during the book i couldn't help but say John would do that when the Didact was young.
@@Bastion70 I have read the previews of that book, and I can see there is some similarities of them two. Both John and the Didact are victims of systems that is beyond their own control, and both are becoming child soldiers.
Halsey single handedly saved humanity with the SPARTAN project.
They were meant for human vs human war
@@echothesilent4693these two facts can exist simultaneously.
@echothesilent4693 what's your point? Every human system would be glass without the SPARTANs. Halsey is a hero.
@@dogevanzandt2889 Antihero may be a more appropriate label if anything.
True but she has not the best intentions. Especially abducting children for the SPARTAN II program and indoctrinate them. That’s what I called robbing them from their childhood.
No wonder Mirenda and her father Jacob were distance from Halsey.
26:45 Don't forget. The Cortana who found the Domain was a Cortana FRAGMENT. This Cortana was NOT whole. She was NOT the Cortana we knew, but an incomplete piece. The rest of her DIED on the Composer, when Master Chief detonated the bomb.
That was just a theory, and Epitaph seems to reaffirmed that this is in fact, the same Cortana.
@Sahlan_Ahamed I think they’re both true, in a sense but maybe I’m misremembering this detail in Epitaph. Great book
@@Woodyisasexybeast It's a great book indeed. All her books are awesome!
I love the tragedy of halseys character, she didnt ask for her inspiration and almost psychic automatic genius, she had no idea all of her crimes were the true necessary evils she wanted them to be after all. She doesn't know that every impulse she ever had her entire life was planned and seeded a millenia ago and she just has to live with herself. She sacrificed so much for humanities survival, everything including her own character. Love halo, man. Amazing video. Never stop bro.
In regards to the gravemind, it is ultimately the job of the parent to shepard the child. If the child is bad, it is because of a failing of the parent. So, yeah it is the precursors fault that the forerunners were upstart brats, and can't be used as a defense for the gravemind's actions.
I found all of this to be super interesting. Jugding this character based off the totality of their lives is a rather interesting approach, as most people will say that the diact is evil, without the consideration that he was, like cortana, sick... effectively. Cortana is usally given a pass so using her as a comparison was wise, i think.
I would agree for the most part regarding children. To an extent though, people will be who they’ll be. In my own personal life, I’ve seen people be rotten despite having good parents and vice versa. It’s certainly a factor but there’s more to it than that.
And thanks btw
The Precursors were like our Greatest Generation, they had achieved much, and the Forerunners are Boomers, self-righteous, impudent, and lack perspective on their own origin. They were given everything, the apple of their parents' eye, and threw a tantrum.
@@WoodyisasexybeastI was going to add that obviously parenting has a huge impact on development, but there's a myriad of other factors that go into the decisions people intuitively make least of which is their own free will. And since the chemicals in our brain move much faster than we can consciously think, do we really have free will if our minds are already made up before we make them?
I don't understand why Halsey immediately jumped to kidnapping children, Orion, while overall unsuccessful, showed promise. and as shown with the Spartan 4's, Adults can have significant changes and be successful. while she obviously wouldn't have had that degree of success (not immediately anyway), she could have at least improved upon Orion, there was no reason to immediately jump to kidnapping, im sure Plenty of Humans (Probably ODST's and other Elite soldiers of humanity) would volunteer for such a thing, as the same was done with Orion. also, I wouldn't mind seeing more videos like this, it was a nice video
ONI demanded super soldiers to crush imminent human rebellion, and Halsey realised that the only way (at the time) to create the ultimate soldier who would be unyielding loyal to the UNSC is to indoctrinate children at age 6 and raise them into military life. After 8 years of training, they would have the best chances of surviving the Augmentation process, even though ironically, so many died. The chemical Augmentations designed for the Spartan IVs was built on the success of the S-II and S-III programs. Sorry for the long response, I'm skipping over so much more, but that's the reason why Haksy needed to use children; to create the ultimate soldier to crush the human rebels.
It just happened by chance that the Covenant showed up right when the S-IIs were ready.
She chose children because their bodies were more easily adaptable to augmentations compared to adults. The Spartan 4’s don’t make much sense but hey 343’s Halo makes no sense anyways.
@@aaroneclipse514the 4s make perfect sense as the next logical sense for the spartan program, building off the 2s and 3s success. The idea that the UNSC would just keep using kidnapped kids and war orphans for their super soldier program and not try and improve the technology to the point where basically anyone could become a spartan would be stupid and a great way to get more worlds to rebel against them. The issue is 343 never bothered to come up with a proper backstory for the 4s like depending on where you look the 4s were either started before the events of halo 1 and first deployed during the battle of earth but then other lore says that the 4s were trained by jun AFTER the battle of earth and the end of the war and were based on a weird attempt to make a kind of spartan that didn’t need armor or some shit. 343 literally just made shit up as they went along
@ The 4s never made sense to me for three reasons: (1) the augmentations could only work on younger more adaptable bodies, (2) ONI couldn’t fund the Mjolnir armor for the Spartan 3s but can for the 4s, and (3) what’s the point of having ODSTs if the 4s imply that literally anyone can be a Spartan?
I did actually read the New Blood book which explained some of the origins on the Spartan 4’s, them being ODSTs who were offered a spot by Jun was a great idea, but the 4s themselves make the 2 and 3s feel trivial.
It wasn't immediate either, the programs are separated by at least 4 years.
Arbiter is definitely a more complicated character when judging morality, but the fact that he's been fighting to right the wrong he'd done as much as possible once the prophets' lies became clear to him shows that he's no doubt an honorable person.
Why Microsoft doesn’t give Master Chief a break and give us a game staring Thel Vadam. Playing as The Arbiter again would be fun, honestly just off putting that Microsoft is continuously neglecting Halo and the stories that can be made into games.
I think their decision to not enlist other studios and branch out into all sorts of other games a la Mario will go down as one of the biggest management failures in video game history. Even some rando fan like me has so many ideas that they could have at least tried.
Love the fact that you include ALL lore no matter where it came from. Very fun video.
Thanks a lot. I will continue to do so. You can dislike post Bungie lore all you want but pretending it doesn’t exist is silly. Besides, I really enjoy a lot of the newer lore.
It’s not perfect but most of is genuinely fascinating
I think John made the right move for Johnson. If a super advanced race like the Forerunners couldn't do it there's a good chance that ONI wouldn't find anything.
Small thing: the ODSTs were hostile towards John because he took the safety pin out of one of the weights (he was testing the gravity in the room) and it smashed on of the ODSTs foot.
Yeah, I know. I didn’t mention it because it’s fairly inconsequential and not a good reason to attack someone
Don't forget, by the time of Halo 3, Truth knew what the rings did. He was well aware of what firing them would do. His plan was to fire the rings, kill all life in the galaxy, and then rule over what was left, i.e, who was on the ark with him, and life that would grow again in the newly wiped galaxy as a god. The most heinous crime of all.
Super underrated video this is the first video I've seen of yours and it was a great one, really makes me wanna play halo wars again.
Thank you!
Do it 😈
Mendicant Bias would be a good one, same as Tartarus
28:43 You should note that Didact also helped Cortana come to her sense, so it wasn't solely her love for John. Didact played a big role in changing her.
Great video!
"Was this child soldier a good person" is kinds funny to me idk why
Okay, the spartans saving humanity doesnt make halsey not a shitty person,she still came up with the idea to kidnap children
The breakdown of 343 Guilty Spark was pretty sad fr and made me appreciate the story more.
Sidenote, the fact the Flood has more redeeming qualities than Truth is hilarious
He really is a prick just to be a prick
@@Woodyisasexybeastain’t that the Truth
was the arbiters actions bad? absolutely...Is he HIMSELF a bad guy? no..he didnt have much of a choice with anything, and if he refused the council wouldve called him a heretic and just killed him off. The shan shyuum knew eventually the elites would question the actions in which they were doing and eventually rebel, hence why they saw Jar Witanree a HUGE problem. They knew elites were bound to their honor of battle and respect, and the prophets just wanted to use them like mindless toys, keep them in the dark, lie to them.
great video, dude. I'd love to see a video on gray team considering their roll as way way behind enemy lines spartan 2s. I haven't seen anyone on youtube talk about them.
Perhaps a “full story” video is in order at some point 🤔
that would be sick@@Woodyisasexybeast
@@Woodyisasexybeastyes please!
I don't have much to say besides I agree with you for the most part and I think your Dog is adorable.
I realized something while watching this video and that the logic plague is a way the gravemind shares his own madness. The precursors are tricky to understand because there some theories out there that make to precursors look awful and horrifying if they are true and the Gravemind/primordial himself leaned into one of those theories giving it more evidence that it might actually be true.
Fantastic video!
The arbitter ordered the glassing of several planets!
If he didn't, they would have replaced him with someone that would. When he found out that he had done humanity wrong he turned on the covenant almost immediately. This is the entire reason why the prophets were trying to replace the elites with the brutes in the first place. Elites like Thel were honor bound and their loyalty was not absolute. Thel is proof of that.
Yes, arbiter glassing planets = bad. Bad arbiter!
BUT! Arbiter seeing the error of his ways and understanding that what he did was wrong and even going so far to see and appreciate a sort of honor within his former blood enemy = good. Hell half of humanist can't even get to this second part; don't demonstrate growth like this.
I can get behind arbiter. Where I struggle more is with anything John has done in the name of duty that he felt at the time wasn't quite right. Like how he was setup after augmentation in the gym. He could have always walked away - even using some amount of force to make it happen without causing so much harm and killing one of the ODSTs.
He spearheaded to genocide humans. He very much the bad guy
@@pixelpusher2219 He did so under false pretenses, having been fed lies about humans desecrating perceived holy sites that his entire understanding of the universe was built on. He *was* one of "the" bad guys, but he is not "*a* bad guy."
I think the didact was still a bad guy. The forerunners were villains of the ancient past and the didact was in a position of power. He was most certainly complacent in some of their most heinous acts against ancient humanity.
Yes but these acts were committed thinking humanity had attacked them unprovoked. They had no idea the flood was involved
@ fair enough
Loved your video. In fact, I always been fascinated this topic for a while when it comes to the morality of characters in the lore From the halo franchise.
Outside of halo Maybe you should do the same moral Dissection on other Sci fi gaming franchises Like another Microsoft prosperity Gears of war (At least when it comes to the moral of the characters.) and A Great But sadly, dead franchise dead space! Along with mass effect
I think all three Franchisees are worth moral Dissection videos When it comes to their Respective characters from the main to minor ones?
if not, then you should do a part two of Halo Heroes and Villains moral Dissection as a full series Especially when it comes to seeing other characters from the lore whether they are from the games and books. In fact, I would love to see how would you put Jilan al-Cygni from Contact Harvest and Veronica Dare from Halo 3 ODST Who despite both being awesome characters In their own right in our presented in a good light in general, It doesn’t change the fact that they are Members of ONI One of the most evil organizations in the lore. I’m curious if you consider both characters “good” one agents at least compared to Margaret Parangosky and John Smith, the latter of which Is a character from the Mona Lisa!
Funnily enough, this entire concept spawned from my time with Baldur’s Gate III and was an idea I had been applying to that game. Originally, that was the video I wanted to make and probably still will at some point but in the end, I decided it would make more sense for me to apply this concept to Halo first.
I love Gears and Dead Space and would love to expand beyond Halo to other series as you suggested. Ideally, this could become a regular series, which was my intention when creating this.
Off the top of my head, I think they’d both probably be classified as “good”.
@@Woodyisasexybeast Awesome, I think it would be nice to see how would classified other characters like Lord Hood from Halo or in other franchises like Isaac Clarke from Dead Space or even it's other medias like Isabella Cho, (She was a good person don't give me wrong her only flaw she that kinda aware of what the markers would do or at least the mission itself not the full extent of what the marker would do plus you have the Nolan thing.) Nickolas Kuttner (I kinda feel very sorry for him given most of his actions were influence by the Marker so I don't he was a bad guy at all plus I loved Christopher Judge as the voice for this character.) from Dead Space: Aftermath and Alissa Vincent from Dead Space: Downfall. (Don't give me wrong she is a great character and a badass at the same her actions unintentionally doomed everyone and make the situation worse, granted she didn't know about the Necromorphs and the Marker but still Dr Kyne was the only smart person in the ship. (Fun Fact: he was voiced by the voice actor who did Ur Didact in Halo 4.)
Now moving to Gears obvious you have the big man himself Marcus Fennix, but you also other characters like Anya Stroud who don't give me is a great character and a badass but at the same she is a officer to the cog and was aware of the hammer strikes same with Hoffman, Prescott, and Adam Fennix, (the latter of which I see is a Oppenheimer type character similar to Galen Erso from Rogue One in fact both created weapons of mass destruction for Fennix you have the Hammer Strikes and the Death Star for Galen.)
But overall I would loved it for this being the next series where you classfield every character from Halo Lore (Whether it is from The Games or books, comics, and even short stories.) and other franchises like Dead Space and Gears. I hope you have an excellent new year!
"Come on! Impress me!"
I personally don't count any 343 games as cannon. Or their changes to Halo's original lore. Forrunners are human, Cortana isn't evil. Rampancy isn't AI schizophrenia. I just personally don't think any of the changes made make any sense, and many beloved characters are victims of 343's character assassinations.
Rampancy wasnt that im h4
@@markss367 My guy you weren't paying attention, or you don't know what Rampancy was in the original lore.
36:00 Logic pluge much?
Who, me? I have no idea what you mean
I wonder if master chief was somehow confronted with the same realization as the arbiter (ie your religion is wrong you're waging an unjust war, etc) if he would've reacted the same. There's some characterization in the 343 games but In the bungie games he's fairly morally rigid and isn't given much opportunity to change. I don't like pretending that 343 games exist but In 5 he essentially denies cortana is bad and goes rogue. He's near perfect on the battlefield but it's really about the only moral decision we see him faced with and he fails. Ultimately, arbiter was loyal to the end yet a product of his situation and had the strength to face that and atone. chief had less opportunity but really kinda dropped the ball with what he had. I feel like arbiter is not only a better story but also probably a better "person"
Thumbnail saying the arbiter is actually a good person, listen I love the guy but I wouldn’t call Thel Vadam a good person he has good intentions but his actions of the pst speaks for his outlook her destroyed 8 human worlds and killed 1 billion humans, he’s known as destroyer by humanity, he’s now in a redeeming period but Thel Vadam isn’t a good person.
Nah man, Arby is my bro
Halsey being a utilitarian, she is kind of excluded from being judged ethically. Acting like a machine gets you judged like a machine, that is not at all.
I'd agree with you if she were an actual machine. But she is not. And should face the consequences of her decisions same as all of us. Even if she were "utilitarian" (maybe you'd also say very very practical?) as you put it, our personalities nor our ethics shed our culpability.
@SmooreMC85 maybe, maybe not. I agree that in the real world she should be held accountable for the horrors she put hundreds of children through, but as the same as with the arbiter not being judged for glassing many human worlds because he strictly followed the ethics of his religion, Halsey can claim that she followed the ethics of the ends justifying the means. Following a strict code or protocol i feel kind of exempts you from getting any credit, for good or ill. Of course Halsey isnt a machine and has real feelings about her actions, but she makes an effort to hide her emotions and always act in accordance with her machiavellian ethics. Rarely (if at all) does she do anything self sacrificial or put others ahead of herself. She therefore, in my view, doesnt qualify to be judged from an ethical standpoint.
@@zodfox9321 Well written. Can you point to a real life example of what you've described? I'm sure there are some but I'm drawing a blank.
And thanks, now I'm going to be up all night comparing Arby glassing planets for religion against Halsey abducting children (to simplify her wrongs a bit) in the name of saving humanity : )
"Morality is subject" your opinion on good or evil is immediately discarded.
Yeah I was gonna say. That mindset is so dangerous and far too many people have it these days
Do you believe in a God ?
& people say Halo lore isn't deep. 😂 I think it's up there with Game Of Thrones, The Expanse & even Dune in terms of complexity of politics & character development.
Anybody that says that hasn’t read the Forerunner trilogy
Some.people say that halo can be saved, but what has been already done cannot be changed, like cortana. Nothing will ever changed the fact that she literally murdered billioms of brutes and other species, 343 litwrally turned he rinto another person. They made such drastix ridiculous changes to the story (like humanity and galaxy being in chaos because of the created), that cant be fixed anymore without any reason that wasnt made out of the blue like a plot tool. If halo studios ever do any good to the story they will be building on an already weak base. I will never like cortana again even if she died "well".
I think what's worse than them turning Cortana into a cartoon supervillain and then killing her off camera or something, is how they try to replace her with the weapon in Halo Infinite. It's like killing your best friend and then replacing her with a younger clone of herself. They might look the same and act similar, but it's not the same person. It's just a cruel joke.
@Wolf05227 i agree
You know that they're rebooting it right?
So, technically this next will be whatever it's going to be. _Also,_ you can compartmentalize the series on account of their context. Like yes, the 343 era got messed up, but the Bungie era is still there and in its context, all the original characterization stands, and the Forerunners are human.
Not that that _justifies_ how badly 343 messed up the series. It's just a different way of thinking about it that might be a little less painful for you.
@ThatTallBrendan It just sucks seeing what's happened to one of my favourites. It's like having a beloved childhood friend and then as adults seeing them become a corrupt politician. When you love something you don't like seeing what you love about it changed. And Halo has changed for the worse in my opinion. In subjective ways like the art style, and in more objective ways like the microtransactions. I feel as if the series has lost its very soul. And it's not alone in that. Also, you say they're rebooting it?
The ODSTs John fought did not die. Will comment more thoughts as I watch.
Everything written by Microsoft is corporate fanfiction.
The Prophet of Truth didn't suppress the truth because he was solely power hungry, they still thought the Halo array was the path to godhood. There is supposed to be a machine on Earth, where one Man can be seated and guide the evolution of the galaxy. Truth wanted to be the one seated there. MS retconned this out because they have no perspective or respect for the work of others.
Halsey's character is the victim of ONI propaganda because she offended Parengoski. You covered her actions pretty accurately, but Microsoft wrote in a smear campaign, especially by Karen Traviss' works.
A few did, actually.
“More than 25 years ago, when I was a second lieutenant, the people who invented Chief thought it would be fun to test their new pet weapon on some real meat. They engineered a situation in which four of my Marines would run into your friend, take offense at something he did, and try to teach him a lesson. Well, guess what? The plan worked perfectly. The plan sucked my people in, and the freak not only kicked the hell out of them, he left them dead-beaten to death in a goddamned ship’s gymnasium.” - page 134 of The Flood
@@Woodyisasexybeast You're quoting Major Silva whose bias against the Spartans is made on ious, and though William C. Dietz doesn't obviously make use unreliable narrators, I never trusted what Silva says, and, if you read the fight scene, the injuries of at least two of those ODSTs were survivable. It's also possible Silva's response is a mix of bias and truth, he could be referencing the two possibly killed ODSTs with hyperbole, implying John had killed everyone in order to hurt Masterchief's feelings more.
@@Woodyisasexybeastmy comments keep disappearing.
Good villains are relatable not sensible. I hate when villians are designed to “make sense”. The reason a villian is a villian is because something about their mentality doesn’t make any sense. Trying so hard to get the audience to make sense of your actions makes a shitty villian.
I never liked MCU Thanos for that reason. He’s not relatable at all and tries to hard to make sense of his desires to the characters and audience. His Comic counterpart on the other hand is opposite to that. His desires and reasoning are relatable. His feelings are relatable. But we all know his actions make no sense for his desired goal.
I would argue that the exact same thing could be said about MCU Thanos. His strategy makes sense, sure but when you really analyze it, everything starts to fall apart. The Infinity stones could be used in literally any other way but he decides to use them to kill. It’s still completely insane
42:14
Dog!
Behold! Dog
Can confirm: flippin adorable good doggo at the timestamp.
Morality is objective. There are objectives to it. I get this is not a philosophy channel. I just have to point that out to disagree. You otherwise are on point with your assessments of the morality of characters.
Morality is subjective. Certain religious zealots believe that killing in the name of their god is morally acceptable. Many others would disagree with that.
the didact during the forerunner era is the coolest character. halo 4 fumbled the bag with him. although i understand why he came out the cryptum full of bloodlust for humanity
In my opinion, I think he’s fine in Halo 4. It was excluding him after that was stupid. He’s a great character
Mortality is not subjective its out right objective
No, morality is subjective. Different people have differing views on what is or is not immoral. Religious zealots believe killing in the name of their god is not immoral. Many others would disagree.
Dude stop referencing 343 lore it’s bad and not canon. Humans ARE the forerunners that is what bungie intended and while it is kind of a lazy cop out it’s the direction they wanted to go.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t canon. I’m not going to ignore 60% of established lore
Those is like watching someone say the start wars prequels aren't canon. I don't like them but I can't choose to say their not canon. Plus, don't they own the franchise?
@@Woodyisasexybeastyou should bud because literally everything 343 has made has been designed to destroy bungies legacy.
I agree with you. I really don't like what 343 has done. They betrayed Halo just like their namesake betrayed the chief. But unfortunately, it is canon. But it's not canon to Bungie's Halo.
@@Woodyisasexybeast 343 Industries lore literally can't be canon, since it contradicts the groundwork/foundation of Halo. Humans need to be forerunner for the story to make sense, because that's how Bungie wrote it.
"Some the worst thing imagine were done with best of intentions." -Dr Alan Grant😂 is the first thing that comes to mind when I think Dr Halsey and her track record.