One game that does something similar is Race for the Galaxy, explicitly one of the expansions allows players to merge their hand with the cards drawn from exploration. This makes the weak "Explore +5" action a lot more powerful since now you draw 7 new cards that you can merge with your hand of cards and then simply discard 6 cards. In a single action you can renew completely your hand of cards if you want.
This is a nice twist to drafting, and is simple enough that it really doesn't add complexity. It also helps the practical issue of having to separate cards you picked and cards you can pick from. So if you want to check your current draft (i generally do!), you don't have to awkwardly have two hands at the same time. A mechanic that I really found interesting in Inis was the turn order token. You mentioned briefly that it changes the draft order, but it also changes the turn order. Surprisingly, this has a huge impact on the game because of the citadels. Citadels protect units, which is important for many victory conditions, but players get to hide in citadels in turn order. Let's say players A, B and C sit in that order. A and B both have one unit in a place with a citadel. If player C attacks them with clockwise turn order, A's unit is safe and so B's unit will die. If turn order is counterclockwise, B's unit is safe and A's unit dies. For players A and B, it also means they need to be aware of the turn order, because they may or may not be safe! Another surprising thing about Inis is that the tiles can be tessellated so that one tile can be surrounded by either 5 or 6 other tiles. 6 surrounding: boardgamegeek.com/image/3166488/inis, compared to 5 surrounding: boardgamegeek.com/image/3453211/inis. This certainly could impact gameplay, as it gives that central tile less influence if it's connected to fewer places. (Which could be good!) I love the decision to make the tiles with odd edges so that the board locks together very nicely. Back to drafting, one of my favorite twists is with Magic: Conspiracy drafts. These are sets created explicitly for drafting. There's a new type of card in them that are only playable in drafts: conspiracy cards. These cards are generally weak cards which provide minor benefits; however, you don't put them in your deck. Instead, you get to start with all of your conspiracy cards in play already in a special zone, and get their benefits. As an example, one card lets you name a card at the start of the game, and that card costs 1 less for you to cast for the whole game. This creates a really interesting decision because you can draft a bunch of weak conspiracy cards that you'll know you'll always see, or you can draft better cards to actually use in your deck. (Or anywhere in between.)
Nyles: That's a keen observation about the turn order--I hadn't thought of the true impact of that, but you're right, it makes a big difference. I've only gotten to draft Conspiracy once, but I agree that it provided some really interesting decisions.
I haven't tried Inis yet, but with all the reviews that I've checked so far, I think I am going to get it. About drafting, what are your thoughts about drafting with the ships tiles of the Windgambit expansion? We tried it four times at the beginning of the game (but only 2 players and an Automa), and we really like it. We don't know whether it unbalance Scythe, but it resolved the issue of getting tiles that might make you to not frequently use your airship because the tiles are not so compatible with your mat or faction, and also it added a nice and kind of simple layer of strategy. We really enjoyed it!
That sounds like a neat way to play The Wind Gambit! Though the official (and recommended) way to play is to select 2 tiles (abilities) that ALL players use--each player doesn't get their own set of tiles. However, I do mention in the rules that very experienced players can try to play with their own sets of abilities.
I was almost about to say "Yeah I know a a game with that mechanic 7 Wondeeeee, wait a second, yeah I haven't heard that before.." I have Inis on the shelf thanks for saying that it's easy to learn. I can't come up with a game that's different. than the usual play a card that says draw a new card.
I think the Inis draft is amazing, since it allows a more strategic draft of cards for the round. One can make a "fuller" plan. Normal drafting is much more short-term and reactive, and the end hand of cards often do very disparate actions. Whereas the Inis draft leads to a hand that is more cohesive, and can be more synergistic. Of course, one still has to change strategy on the fly, based on what cards you get. Which is great, preventing boring repetitiveness in strategy. I think it may work with drafting games like Blood rage. We even play King of tokyo (with powerup expansion) with a draft - will try it God-willing! Thanks for the video! Sal
Salman: I'd love to try it with other drafting games (at least those where you don't do something with the cards until after the draft, like Blood Rage and Magic).
This was the standout mechanism for me as well. I've wanted to implement it into other games where you draft a full hand to use (e.g. Blood rage) opposed to the 7 wonder style. Is there a possible downside? I can't think of one though maybe it could impact balance.
That's a good question about the potential downside. I think at worst it's a matter of AP--instead of speeding up the drafting process, it potentially slows it down. But the difference was really small, as far as I could tell.
Drafts where the point is making combos (Greed, 7 Wonders, Sushi Go, Fairy Tale, Among the Stars), then you take away the risk-taking of an incomplete combo, plus the strategy of taking cards the next player could use, because you'll only pick the card if you can take the full combo, or take a piece and then put it in another hand later on. It might be interesting, but I don't think it's that small a change. Blood Rage however, AFAIK, is not centered around the draft, so it might not be the case as much.
Jonathan Vallerand I agree. It wouldn't work with games like 7 wonders and sushi go because you have to play the card immediately and the push your luck aspect of trying to combo the right cards is critical to the fun of those games. But games like blood rage where you are building a hand that will dictate your strategy go the round I think the extra flexibility might be an interesting twist.
I would like to ask. Are there any problems with card drafting, like overpowered cards or overpowered combination of cards that ruin the gameplay and replayability?
In Inis? I've only played once, and I did not experience that. Though that's the great thing about card drafting--every card doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.
I don't think there is such thing like a powerful combo or "meta" in Inis, the draft depends on your strategy, keep in mind that every round you draft the same deck of 17 action cards -4p (less cards if you play on lower player counts)-, so maybe on a round you want to focus on expand, or be defensive, grow, attack or both, idk, it depends on what you want. There is a card "Geis", that allows you to cancel an action card played by an opponent, it can be powerful but only if used on the right moment (like every other card), because a important thing in Inis is Timing. Besides the actions cards, you can get Epic tale cards (no draft, others cards let you draw them), this have powerful effects if compared to action cards, you don't know exactly what are you getting, but you can save them for later rounds to reinforce your strategy, being an important aspect on acquire the victory. As i say before, a card maybe sounds powerful but is more important when to play it.
It's balanced well. Makes drafting really hard, because all cards are so nice to have and you want to keep them all. And even if you have cards you dont wanna use as actions you can still use them for combat. As has been said: in the end it depends on timing and on your strategy in that round. It's an amazing game and victory always tight.
One game that does something similar is Race for the Galaxy, explicitly one of the expansions allows players to merge their hand with the cards drawn from exploration. This makes the weak "Explore +5" action a lot more powerful since now you draw 7 new cards that you can merge with your hand of cards and then simply discard 6 cards. In a single action you can renew completely your hand of cards if you want.
Got Inis in the mail today. I think I am going to like it. =)
This is a nice twist to drafting, and is simple enough that it really doesn't add complexity. It also helps the practical issue of having to separate cards you picked and cards you can pick from. So if you want to check your current draft (i generally do!), you don't have to awkwardly have two hands at the same time.
A mechanic that I really found interesting in Inis was the turn order token. You mentioned briefly that it changes the draft order, but it also changes the turn order. Surprisingly, this has a huge impact on the game because of the citadels. Citadels protect units, which is important for many victory conditions, but players get to hide in citadels in turn order. Let's say players A, B and C sit in that order. A and B both have one unit in a place with a citadel. If player C attacks them with clockwise turn order, A's unit is safe and so B's unit will die. If turn order is counterclockwise, B's unit is safe and A's unit dies. For players A and B, it also means they need to be aware of the turn order, because they may or may not be safe!
Another surprising thing about Inis is that the tiles can be tessellated so that one tile can be surrounded by either 5 or 6 other tiles. 6 surrounding: boardgamegeek.com/image/3166488/inis, compared to 5 surrounding: boardgamegeek.com/image/3453211/inis. This certainly could impact gameplay, as it gives that central tile less influence if it's connected to fewer places. (Which could be good!) I love the decision to make the tiles with odd edges so that the board locks together very nicely.
Back to drafting, one of my favorite twists is with Magic: Conspiracy drafts. These are sets created explicitly for drafting. There's a new type of card in them that are only playable in drafts: conspiracy cards. These cards are generally weak cards which provide minor benefits; however, you don't put them in your deck. Instead, you get to start with all of your conspiracy cards in play already in a special zone, and get their benefits. As an example, one card lets you name a card at the start of the game, and that card costs 1 less for you to cast for the whole game. This creates a really interesting decision because you can draft a bunch of weak conspiracy cards that you'll know you'll always see, or you can draft better cards to actually use in your deck. (Or anywhere in between.)
Nyles: That's a keen observation about the turn order--I hadn't thought of the true impact of that, but you're right, it makes a big difference.
I've only gotten to draft Conspiracy once, but I agree that it provided some really interesting decisions.
I haven't tried Inis yet, but with all the reviews that I've checked so far, I think I am going to get it.
About drafting, what are your thoughts about drafting with the ships tiles of the Windgambit expansion? We tried it four times at the beginning of the game (but only 2 players and an Automa), and we really like it. We don't know whether it unbalance Scythe, but it resolved the issue of getting tiles that might make you to not frequently use your airship because the tiles are not so compatible with your mat or faction, and also it added a nice and kind of simple layer of strategy. We really enjoyed it!
That sounds like a neat way to play The Wind Gambit! Though the official (and recommended) way to play is to select 2 tiles (abilities) that ALL players use--each player doesn't get their own set of tiles. However, I do mention in the rules that very experienced players can try to play with their own sets of abilities.
I was almost about to say "Yeah I know a a game with that mechanic 7 Wondeeeee, wait a second, yeah I haven't heard that before.." I have Inis on the shelf thanks for saying that it's easy to learn. I can't come up with a game that's different. than the usual play a card that says draw a new card.
Nevermore is the first game that I remember drafted like this.
Nice! I'm going to play that at Geekway this year.
I think the Inis draft is amazing, since it allows a more strategic draft of cards for the round. One can make a "fuller" plan.
Normal drafting is much more short-term and reactive, and the end hand of cards often do very disparate actions.
Whereas the Inis draft leads to a hand that is more cohesive, and can be more synergistic.
Of course, one still has to change strategy on the fly, based on what cards you get. Which is great, preventing boring repetitiveness in strategy.
I think it may work with drafting games like Blood rage.
We even play King of tokyo (with powerup expansion) with a draft - will try it God-willing!
Thanks for the video! Sal
Salman: I'd love to try it with other drafting games (at least those where you don't do something with the cards until after the draft, like Blood Rage and Magic).
This was the standout mechanism for me as well. I've wanted to implement it into other games where you draft a full hand to use (e.g. Blood rage) opposed to the 7 wonder style. Is there a possible downside? I can't think of one though maybe it could impact balance.
That's a good question about the potential downside. I think at worst it's a matter of AP--instead of speeding up the drafting process, it potentially slows it down. But the difference was really small, as far as I could tell.
Drafts where the point is making combos (Greed, 7 Wonders, Sushi Go, Fairy Tale, Among the Stars), then you take away the risk-taking of an incomplete combo, plus the strategy of taking cards the next player could use, because you'll only pick the card if you can take the full combo, or take a piece and then put it in another hand later on. It might be interesting, but I don't think it's that small a change.
Blood Rage however, AFAIK, is not centered around the draft, so it might not be the case as much.
Jonathan Vallerand I agree. It wouldn't work with games like 7 wonders and sushi go because you have to play the card immediately and the push your luck aspect of trying to combo the right cards is critical to the fun of those games. But games like blood rage where you are building a hand that will dictate your strategy go the round I think the extra flexibility might be an interesting twist.
I would like to ask. Are there any problems with card drafting, like overpowered cards or overpowered combination of cards that ruin the gameplay and replayability?
In Inis? I've only played once, and I did not experience that. Though that's the great thing about card drafting--every card doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.
I don't think there is such thing like a powerful combo or "meta" in Inis, the draft depends on your strategy, keep in mind that every round you draft the same deck of 17 action cards -4p (less cards if you play on lower player counts)-, so maybe on a round you want to focus on expand, or be defensive, grow, attack or both, idk, it depends on what you want. There is a card "Geis", that allows you to cancel an action card played by an opponent, it can be powerful but only if used on the right moment (like every other card), because a important thing in Inis is Timing. Besides the actions cards, you can get Epic tale cards (no draft, others cards let you draw them), this have powerful effects if compared to action cards, you don't know exactly what are you getting, but you can save them for later rounds to reinforce your strategy, being an important aspect on acquire the victory. As i say before, a card maybe sounds powerful but is more important when to play it.
It's balanced well. Makes drafting really hard, because all cards are so nice to have and you want to keep them all. And even if you have cards you dont wanna use as actions you can still use them for combat. As has been said: in the end it depends on timing and on your strategy in that round. It's an amazing game and victory always tight.