Now that's a great analysis of MPC. if there were no MPC years there may have been no Lionel today. Those trains were a LOT better than they're given credit for. AND because collectors choose to ignore them still, they keep budget railroading possible for the rest of us. I'll always sing praises to Lionel MPC. oh, and in reference to your videos end, I was an avid Brady Bunch fan and I'd STILL vote for Nixon. The 70s rocked.
The first time I heard about Lionel MPC trains I was told that MPC stood for Mostly Plastic Crap. I have always stayed away from the MPC era because of that. Thanks for making this video and opening my eyes about the changes and how beneficial some of them have been. I will definitely now look into adding MPC cars to my lineup. As always, Mike another great video thanks for making them.
I have plenty of MPC era rolling stock. Honestly it’s nice to have something that’s affordable and has some variety. I love my twin bay hoppers but with the postwar era rolling stock it rings similar to Henry Fords statement that you could have a model T in any color so long as it was black. Great video as always!
I’m an F3 enthusiast. Starting from 1980, the details on the f3 were better than the 2383 and variants, since they slowly brought back features like portholes
MPC was about the only company in ANY scale to mass produce "Bankrupcy Blue Rock Island locos & cars while the Rock was still in business! I have a switcher & porthole caboose, but they also made GP-7's and GE units too...
Born in 1961 and having my father's and older brothers' postwar Lionel trains every Christmas, when I got my first set in 1971, the MPC difference was immediately noticeable: thin O27 track, plastic flimsy trucks, and everything just felt light. Today, 50 years later, I still have that set.
I've never noticed any difference between Postwar, MPC, and modern O27 track (other than the occasional aluminum ties). I mix them all together on my layout. Lionel introduced the AAR plastic truck in 1957 - LONG before the MPC era (although some high-end O items still used bar-end trucks through the 1960s).
I think I heard somewhere a phrase that described MPC best. It helped bring back that interest in collectors and newcomers to the hobby. Bringing back postwar-esque sets and locos, and providing sets that anyone can pick up and buy at their local toy store. I will always have a soft spot for the MPC era diesels like my CNJ GP-9’s and Chessie System GP-20.
Nice review! The MPC-era was quite good, as it kept Lionel in the public's eye. The cars were just as nice as the later years of Lionel in the 60's and the wheel/axle combination was one of the best innovations that Lionel ever had. MPC came out with some real nice engines, steam and diesel along with sets, like the 1983 Twentieth Century Limited set, which I have, the Chessie set and the FARR series. The F3's had a modern horn and had clear porthole windows, with vertical motors and MagneTraction. Their steam locomotives were on par with anything that Lionel produced in the later 1950's, using the same boiler castings and adding back some of the detail that Lionel removed, over the years. All-in-all, MPC was a win for Lionel and us O gaugers. An excellent video, as always.
The MPC era 4-4-2 was the basis for my mid late nineties NYC freight set. That little 8632 has buku operating hours on it and still going strong to this day.
Good point about the new wheels -- yet ironically the green gond has a warped wheel (noticeable when it's spun @ 2:45). Fortunately they are easily changed.
The first train set my dad gave me new was the Lionel MPC Chesapeake Flyer set with the Mighty Sound of Steam. I still have that set today 50 years later and it is complete, I still operate and enjoy the set on a regular basis and it will be passed down to my kids. I grew up with Lionel MPC era trains and I still collect and operate Lionel MPC today. My dad enjoyed collecting Lionel trains when he was alive and my kids and I are continuing the tradition. I have a lot of great memories with the Lionel MPC era. There was a lot of well built Lionel MPC era trains, there still affordable and repairable today especially if some one is just getting into the toy train hobby. Every child should have a toy train set. I also have Lionel Post War and some Lionel from after the MPC era. I really enjoy and love my Lionel MPC era trains and I do not believe they are junk. Lionel MPC trains have there place in Lionel train history and are some of my favorites right alongside Lionel Post War trains. I would buy Lionel MPC era trains over anything Lionel is making today. Lionel MPC era will probably outlast anything Lionel is making today. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and it was a great time for me. Thank you for another great video and yes lets all keep the trains running.
The best part about it, is if they think it's junk makes more for the ones on a budget. A little care and cleaning on the trucks and my old 2025 can pull all i put behind it. I do know that with the wheels on them they do roll super sweet. Awesome video and super informative.
Great video!! Like you MPC was era I grew up with. Was very fortunate started with The Black River freight, and later my dad and I built a table. Soon The Chesapeake Flyer was added to the layout. Finally culminating in The Blue Comet being added. So yes loved MPC era - today I use them with my modern Lionel trains.
The best part is price. I was a newbie to O scale trains in the early 2000s, and I could go to train shows and buy a lot of mpc era cars for amazing prices. Even better if the boxes were in rough shape.
Mike - I run both post war and MPC era Lionel trains, while definitely different, especially weight wise, hard to say which is "better" from a functional stand point. The post war offerings have certainly withstood the test of time, but the MPC era locos and rolling stock do run smoother and quieter. Nice to have options. Thanks for all the great work and have a great holiday!
I noticed a misprint in the 9400 series boxcar #9423. The graphic said NY, New Hampshire and Hartford but the Logo looks like the early pre McGuiness NY, NH & H.
MPC finally seems to be getting some recognition these days among collectors and UA-camrs. I’m as guilty as any for calling it junk, but the reality is that the 70s were a dark time for O gauge and MPC did what it could to make Lionel trains interesting.
I have several MPC diesels and electrics, and they look and run just as good as their postwar counterparts. Heck, I'm glad I have the MPC versions of the Virginian Rectifier and Great Northern EP5 as they're affordable alternatives to the ridiculously expensive originals.
The MPC Era added my CN trains. Hardest part of being a Canadian postwar collector. There was only CP with postwar. I'm probably going to have to make my own VIA Rail train.
The majority of my collection is mpc era and it all works/runs great. Love my colorful u-boats and ease of use of the locomotives. Put em on the track and they work. Sometimes I get taken back by all of my mpc stuff, because they still look great even today.
The 8206 Hudson 4 6 4,Sound of Steam n whistle Steam Engine. Brought me back to Lionel. Purchased it at Madison Hardware. And kept going back and started collecting again.
The biggest issue with MPC stuff was how poorly it was treated. The gears may crack, but many of the issues I have seen people complain were when they ran the engines with way more cars than intended and ran way to much voltage through the motors burning them up and stripping the gears. Operator abuse was a large part of the problem. MPC also brought in Olium bearings that lasted longer.
I had the 8030 Illinois Central GP-9 when I was young back then bought it brand new from the Train Store. Was a good reliable engine but it had 1 major problem. That thing would derail on a curve for no reason and it drove me nuts! No matter which way I ran it, it would randomly derail on a curve. With cars, without cars, going slow, going fast, and never consistent. It might run for 10 minutes, then derail, then next time 1 minute, derail. Dealer went though it, I took care of it, it did it from the day I brought it home. If I remember it had 2 rollers and 2 springs. I even thought maybe to much tension on the springs and not enough weight so I would take the tension off the spring for the roller frame. Still did it !
Fantastic video on MPC. Certainly plenty of innovation and variety. I really like my blue comet, southern crescent, Chicago Alton, and other higher end steam engines of the day. They made their share of cheap junky trains, like my 8300 I’ve had since I was three, it still works, but the higher quality trains are a whole lot of fun and worth collecting
I agree with your evaluation of MPC. I was an authorized Lionel Service Station during those years and really enjoyed buying and selling and repairing th many MPC items. And yes, Lionel did produce a large number and variety of rolling stock and engines. The next video that popped up was the one where you got 4 shells on eBay and then proceeded to strip of the paint on the lag get shell. did you ever try using hot concentrated solution of Tide detergent. I have found that is really works well and can be used over and over - just ad a little moe water every so often. but the solution has got to be really hot and after a few days the paint just slusoghs off. rinse it nd a little tooth bushing and it is ready to paint. Try it sometime. And thanks for all your great videos.
I tried Tide in the past with OK results. On the U36 shell, some layers came off easily while others were tough. I think the metallic blue was old Floquil lacquer. It depends on the paint type. The old Santa Fe F3 came off super fast and easy with the Purple Power.
Mpc is what got me started. I still collect mainly mpc and some postwar. mpc rolling stick is a lot quieter than anything before with the flat wheels and axles. My main problem with mpc is the wheels on the engines are sometimes drilled a little off-center making them wobble. But they did have some absolutely beautiful steam engines. The baby Hudsons, the bigger Hudsons with the Berkshire boiler and the Berkshires had some gorgeous paint schemes. With all the mpc billboard boxcars and refrigerated cars, it's easy to find a car that reminds me of someone that is no longer with us. Cracker Jack car reminds me of my papaw because he always brought them to give us when we was little. Butterfinger car for my mom, just different things like that I'll get to remind me of the people I've loved and lost.
I compare the MPC era to what happened to the Ford Mustang in 1974. Many hated the Mustang II for years but without it no Mustang of today. Same with Lionel.....no MPC era Lionel goes away. Thx
MPC Lionel also gave us "big steam" Hudsons, Berkshires and even a Mikado and Northerns in more road names than Lionel Lines, Pennsylvania and New York Central and color schemes beyond "basic black." We also got prototype cab numbers for several steam locomotives, like the J Class, Pennsylvania Turbine and Southern Mikado.
MPC made some super slot cars with the Dyno Charger white ‘57 Corvette and the Dyno Can red Makoshark. At the time the fastest on commercial tracks at relative reasonable costs. They preceded the rewind small cans still in use today.
Great video Mike!!! As you know I love and grew up with Lionel MPC and I just can not fathom why Lionel LLC is starting to go away from their Traditional Line routes with their new offerings. The last engine I bought from them was the Lionchief Plus 2.0 Rock Island GP- 7 but that engine is more scale like than their previous GP-7's along with the Rock Island I now have a total of four. Quite frankly I wish that the Lionel LLC. team would leave well enough alone and stop making changes to what had already been (since about 2010) good Traditional Line products at good affordable prices. I personally would like to see more of this line in railroad namesthat I like and which I have many of. Thank You for sharing this and as always Happy Railroading!!!!
I hope so right now I am gravitating more towards the Menards Line of O gauge and O-27 gauge trains because right now that company is making more of the older type Lionel like trains that I like (for instance the 4 bay quad hoppers and boxcars) and other items that have their roots in the old Lionel designs. I guess that we will have to wait and see and again Thank You so much for sharing this!!!!
My 783 has been good to me, it’s way stronger than our 60’s 773. The top speed is still rather low but it’s still a decent puller. Like with most MPC engines before you put power to the tender, take the shell off and check the foam between the frame and the whistle/SOS board
@ die-cast like the 1950 773, the trucks are the same 6 wheel trucks from the blue comet, Chessie steam special, and the Chicago & Alton BOTH ARE DIECAST
Mike quick question if mpc is considered junk then why do train shop sell them for outrageous prices the hobby shop will not buy or carry them then I went in their last week and looked through the lionel section and found four mpc cotton belt and southern pacific box cars the shop wanted 76 dollars each I pointed bout that they werebmpv o gauge box cars didn't make a difference on 5he manufacturers he said they werevlionel
Hmm. Maybe a pricing issue at the hobby shop. A quick look at eBay shows several 6-9414 Cotton Belt cars in great shape for $25 or less. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=lionel+mpc+9414+cotton+belt+boxcar&_sacat=0&_odkw=lionel+mpc+9414+cotton+belt+boxcart&_osacat=0
I have a 4 4 2 with the sound of steam. It runs great. Yes it doesn't pull a lot of cars but the only thing I have wrong iss the front truck spring. The spring is to light to keep the truck on track or through turnouts. The diesels later on wee still very good. Some of the old postwar ones had a problem with the motor sides becoming loose and throwing the armature off.
MPC had some cool accessories but I do like the post-war stuff my dad and grandpa got me as a 90's kid. I ran those things till the wheels fell off and then my grandpa would help me rebuild them.
First, I love your videos so please don't take what I'm about to say as criticism. I also grew up in the '70s with MPC trains. Agree with you regarding the Baby Madisons and fast-angle wheels. The decoration was great, and the 8010-series diesel power truck is better than what Lionel was making in the '60s. The line of MPC-era 4-4-2s derived from the postwar 2037 ended with UP 8102 in 1981. That tooling was out of the lineup for 8 years, returning circa 1989 in a 2-6-4 configuration which continued through the mid-'90s. The 4-4-2s being sold today descend from the entry-level 2-4-2 'Columbia' (although that's a bit like saying it's your grandfather's axe when the head and handle have both been changed!) with the biggest evolutionary leap coming in 1984. I'm an operator, and in most cases MPC locos can be improved by the substitution of Postwar motors, chassis, etc. Maybe a good subject for a head-to-head comparison? Thanks for sharing, and look forward to more of your videos!!
There is something price vs quality to suit both ends of thought. My self quality wins out every time. So the negative quality features of mpc out weights the plus engineering changes. But nice that others still find mpc acceptable. Lionel after about 1960 vs the pre/post war trains is kinda like comparing a Prius to a BMW or Mustang.
Looking for passenger coaches, I wound up with a set of Milwaukee Road lighted coaches. I believe these are MPC cars. They look good and operate flawlessly. They do have the non operating couplers I believe the combine has one operating coupler on it.
Yes, the Milwaukee set was among the first. There are also several add-on cars to the set and if you look hard eneough you can make a VERY impressive Milwaukee Road passenger train!
Just some information about the Mexico Disaster. Since the early 70's, Lionel signed a dealership with a long tenured mexican toy manufacturer (Lily Ledy). As a matter of fact, a hughe portion of Lionel's HO production was made in Mexico by them. I have 2 of those Ledy Trenes (That was their name here) and they still work wonderfuly. But there's one issue. Lily Ledy was bought by MPC in 1979, and they have hughe problems with the union, so Lily Ledy's plant in Naucalpan (Mexico City area) closed in 1981. They switched production then to Tijuana (Frontier city, next to San Diego) with highly unskilled laborers and they had also union trouble over there. That was told to me by a former Lily Ledy plant manager who was hired to start the plant at Tijuana, but quited after 3 months knowing the mess to come. Who knows, maybe in a few years, they will bring some production back to Mexico, now better prepared to do it right.
Thank for the info. I knew about the unskilled labor [I think CTT once had a photo showing in-production cars with Spanish instructions printed on them to assist with basic assembly], but I was unaware of the union issues.
I knew that ALL Fundamensions couldn't be junk because I acquired a Lionel HO diesel from the 1970s (made in Michigan) that ran just fine (and that was before I even knew HOW to do any basic maintenance to keep it going). Then, recently, my daughter found a Lionel O gauge Fundamensions set in box for me for $15. I cannot complain!
Hi Mike MPC MATT here again lwas wondering could you do a video on the Standard O series of freight cars that Lionel MPC started producing in 1973 and which continues with Lionel LLC to this day?? Thanks again and have a Very Merry Christmas!!!
I grew up playing with Lionel from the 60s, they used heavy plastic and metal knuckle connectors. When I first saw MPC trains was turned off by light plastic body’s and solid couplers. This video opened my eyes, I had no idea about! Honestly seeing the changes in the quality It made me lose interest in Lionel trains as an adult.
Thanks for sharing. Many 1960s Lionel products had no operating couplers, and sometimes no decoration at all. There were forward-only 2-4-0 steamers and FAs and NW2s with single-axle drive. The high-end product was good, but starter set products were not much better - if at all - to early MPC starter sets.
Plenty of others have said it and I HAVE to concur, if General Mills didn't see value in the Lionel name we'd have NO Lionel's today, period. The "Big L" would have passed from the scene, most likely forever. The MPC/General Mills era was a bail-out sorely needed since the people running Lionel by 1969 seemed to have NO idea of what to do with the product line. It happens with a lot of companies. Lionel got lucky and so did we!
I really like the baby Madisons, they look sharp and even the ones without working couplers don't bother me because other than at the engine, why would you really want to uncouple individual cars? It also makes them great for constant operation, like under a Christmas tree, since its one less thing to fail on them.
My uncle has quite a number of items from the MPC era of Lionel. In my opinion, they're not that bad, and they're pretty fun to play around with, just like everything else.
The one problem was the tire drive, and wheels causing excessive wobble on some engines Sound of steam terrible.. Whistles not great.. But they kept it going..good for them
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks did Lionel MPC really base a set based on a steam engine in the 70's that was strictly a tourist attraction during that era? My late 70's "Chesapeake Flyer" steam set set had a mix of C&O, B&O and Chessie, which absolutely would not have happened (being pulled by a 4-4-2, that is).
@wymotome There was a great deal of publicity around the Chessie Steam Special, so it was a logical choice. Ask AHM why they made an HO scale steamer in Conrail blue!
😂 polyester bell bottom pants😂 ok for the summer, not so good for the winter! The cold wind would cut right through them! I didn't wear long johns, but trying to be cool 😎, I started wearing them! 😮😃
I have to argue about the 4-4-2 Atlantic steamers still being used are based off of MPC, as Lionel all but discontinued making those quality steamers after the introduction of the USRA 0-8-0. The Ones Lionel is manufacturing now are more based off of their scout line and less of the higher quality die-cast MPC and Lionel INC steamers
I watched your video on making Christmas trains and about how you said about using a locomotive with Christmas colors; sometimes, with steam locomotives, a black steam locomotive will work fine, especially with the Polar Express. I'm doing a Polar Express theme with my Christmas trains (since this year marks 20 years since the release of the movie, "The Polar Express") and to go with the theme, I'm pulling the Christmas trains with black steam locomotives, I'll be posting the video on UA-cam either Christmas eve or Christmas day
Also, about how you said the MPC Lionel Southern Crescent and Chicago and Alton passenger sets would fit into a Christmas setting being in Christmas colors. Would you say the same for the MPC Blue Comet train set?
Funny, you should say that because that's going to be my theme for next Christmas, where my Christmas trains are pulled by blue locomotives, that's the color of my railroad
MPC era is era is not Junk.MPC is generation X .My generation.Check out My 1987 MPC 027 Track 2nd level on my 40 foot Fastrack 027 track Model Train layout.65 switch Tracks.Five 45 degree crossovers.Two 90 degree crossovers.MOC Lighted bumpers.027 track runs excellent
I've dealt with MPC trains, and I wouldn't term them junk. They're still better than a lot of the Chinese whatnot that you can get today. Some of it, I dislike, but everything else is all right. One thing that I absolutely HATE is one of the many cases where a railcar has a working knuckle coupler on only one end. Yes, it works, but its a real hassle. Also--you should NEVER buy smoke fluid because mineral oil is infinitely cheaper and is smoke fluid without any scents.
I'm finally getting a chance to watch this video in its entirety. While I am a late prewar-early postwar guy at heart, I have a soft spot for MPC era trains. The quality is actually better than late 1960s issue stuff in my opinion. That single axle drive diesel motors Lionel issued in the 1960s? I don't believe they ever used that in the 1970s. Those cheap Scout motors Lionel made in the 1960s? Gone as well. And I do have a soft spot for those little 0-4-0 tank engines they made. I added an E unit to a DC model, hooked recifier diodes to the motor brush wires from the E-unit, so it runs on AC and has a neutral position. Did that with the DC powered GE switchers as well. Most of MPC's failures can be chalked up to trying something new that did not work as expected, and trying, and failing, is better than not trying at all.
I certainly have also seen the 'MPC is junk' sentiments floated around. Well, secondhand MPC is how I got my start in O gauge, and honestly I don't think it was significantly lesser in quality than most of what Lionel was selling in the waning years of the 1960s. I've always disliked the Symington-Wayne truck frames, but the needle point axles and fast angle wheels were a brilliant move. Something not all collectors are aware of, is that in the very early MPC era, some trains were produced with AAR trucks that had the new wheels and axles. The easiest way to find them is on earlier production 9200 series 'Famous Roadnames' boxcars- but all trains made in 1970, as well as perhaps some in 1971 should have them. It seems like by 72 or 73 the Symington-Wayne trucks had completely replaced them. The presence of AAR trucks does not seem to command any premium, but they are my preference- unfortunately of course, only findable on rolling stock produced very early in the MPC years.
If not for MPC Lionel would not exist today. Much like Harley Davison would not exist if AMF would not have bought them. MPC put out some quality product. In 1982 my wife to be gave me a Chelssteam special set with a bride groom, wedding bride, and a small German Shepherd on the rear platform my dog Char at the time. This is the most valuable set I own. The MPC Train masters from what I see were made exactly like the post war train masters metal gears in big AC motors. Also, I own a number of F3 with nylon gears. I listen to the opinions so-called experts told me they would wear out and break. As long as you keep them greased, they will last many years. Because of their advice, I bought three sets of nylon gears to replace them when they went bad. 40 years later I have not used one gear. When I hear opinion that NPC was junk. They heard it from someone else and have no experience with these engines. I am an MPC fan postwar pre-war Lionel. And most of the new products. This is just my opinion and the experience that I have with MPC.I
Agreed. I have never had a nylon gear fail on any of my MPC engines. I LOVE the Chessie Steam Special set and I someday hope to acquire one. Thanks for sharing!
When I was little, early 80s, I got the burgundy Chicago & Alton like the one in this video, along with all the cars... Even though my Dad and I both have pretty extensive collections, that train has ran every year for almost a month solid flying around the Christmas tree... Say whatever you will, I would bet dollars to donuts in 40+ years these fancy Odyssey engines won't still be running, either the boards in them fried or the technology changed so much you can't run them. I have said this before, there is beauty in simplicity. My Dad loves this new stuff, these extreme giant engines... but he is a collector that rarely unboxes and doesn't even run his engines, he buys them for the looks. For me it is finding and old engine like I did a couple of weeks ago, a Commodore Blue Streak, found in the bottom of a box under a pile of track still in its original box. Oiled, threw it on the track and she took off like it was nothing after 90 some years... I just don't see todays engines doing that with all the tech in them that is required to make them go.
In my opinion, Lionel MPC was of a lower quality than was the post-war era (for the most part). However, they also gave us performance improvements such as the needle bearing axils and the beveled wheels (though with plastic trucks at first) which allowed for longer trains. Later, another addition from MPC which actually destroys the old postwar designs are the diecast sprung trucks. On one can argue that this was not a major improvement as they are copied by every manufacturer even today. By the mid -late 70's, MPC had begun matching the quality of the postwar locomotives with the reissue of magnetraction. An MPC FM is pound for pound as good as the original for example. Now, where MPC absolutely does destroy postwar Lionel is in the colorful; paint schemes. There is no way that the original drab black 2046 for example can match it's 1978 counterpart Blue Comet, Southern or Chicago & Alton. I have grown to appreciate the MPC Eras along with the prewar and postwar eras.
Well, we're both partially right. Lionel filed bankruptcy in August 1967, not 1969. But they did sell the rights to the train production to General Mills in 1969, helping to keep the rest of the company afloat.
I don't like the DC locos, the truck sidefame, and the all plastic coupler. I have a DC loco (0-4-0 Tank Engine) that I plan to convert to AC, probably via mechanism swap of some sort. I tend to operate on different people's layouts, so I feel that it's not right to ask them to make changes to their layout to accommodate it. I call the trucks that use that sideframe a Korean or overseas truck since I first noticed it on some cars produced in Korea. What's with those trucks? I've never encountered anything like it in my reading about US railroads. The plastic finger used as a spring will weaken and fail over time. I keep all couplers in the open position to allow the spring to relax when not in use to try and extend their life.
The Symington-Wayne XL-70 trucks were often used on high-speed equipment such as express boxcars and reefers. However, they were pretty much extinct by the time Lionel adopted them.
Just like the uppedy only lionel guys if not lionel it's junk personally I can't afford new lionel products on a retirement income and never mind MPC pulled lionels but out of the bankrupt fires
Hmm... How would I express my viewpoint of the MPC era? Most people view this era as a cheapen era. Are they correct? Well, this video does present viewpoints that contradict the idea, but I can see the viewpoint of O Guage operators of the time. One of my turn offs of the era is the choice of trucks. They just scream of oddball-cheap quality. As a person who does value scale options versus compromise in some situations, this tips the scales in a negative favor. Throw in the fact of the changes to DC powered locomotives, it leads to the perception of lower quality even if it isn't always true. As someone who operates not only O gauge, but HO scale. The 1970s era of model railroading is viewed as a "Low Quality Era" due to manufactures trying to optimize cost over quality. This led some long-time modelers the quality issues that aroused to be an issue.
Technically correct, but since Fundimensions and MPC were both under the same General Mills corporate banner, they are generally referred to in the hobby as the "MPC years" - including 1985-1986 when they were under the Kenner group.
The MPC logo never appeared on any Lionel product after 1972. While both Lionel and MPC were part of the Fundimensions group, Lionel became its own division under Fundimensions. I enjoy your videos and don't mean to be critical but referring to the years after 1972 as MPC years, as many do, is not correct. @@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks
You are, of course, correct about the corporate structure. But for better or worse, "MPC" has become the common term among hobbyists for the era. When asked what era of Lionel someone prefers, I do not recall anyone ever responding with "Fundimensions" or "General Mills". They say "MPC".
The MPC era brought forth the 783 Hudson which was the 4th. best engine Lionel ever produced upon release. Behind the 700E, 763, and 1950 773 but ahead of the 1964 773 and tied with the 784 B&A Hudson Then in 1987Lionel ditched the FUGLY Magnetraction drivers and made their best engine since the prewar era in the 785. This engine has open spoked drivers and a tall stack motor. The 785 is better than ANY 773. It is unfortunate that Lionel MPC modeled their trucks after the Symington-Wayne XL-70 trucks. I used to dislike the plastic trucks operationally but when I finally built a large layout, I came to see them as an improvement. You can pull longer trains with plastic trucks. MPC steamers are OK but the diesels were trash and didn't improve until the Kughn era.
My intention was a comment on the turmoil of the era - not on the merits of a particular candidate. [However, if you DO interpret it that way, did I not in that case ding both Nixon (photo) AND Carter ("gas lines")?] Thanks for watching!
Now that's a great analysis of MPC. if there were no MPC years there may have been no Lionel today. Those trains were a LOT better than they're given credit for. AND because collectors choose to ignore them still, they keep budget railroading possible for the rest of us. I'll always sing praises to Lionel MPC. oh, and in reference to your videos end, I was an avid Brady Bunch fan and I'd STILL vote for Nixon. The 70s rocked.
Thanks for the feedback!
The first time I heard about Lionel MPC trains I was told that MPC stood for Mostly Plastic Crap. I have always stayed away from the MPC era because of that. Thanks for making this video and opening my eyes about the changes and how beneficial some of them have been. I will definitely now look into adding MPC cars to my lineup. As always, Mike another great video thanks for making them.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Happy railroading.
I have plenty of MPC era rolling stock. Honestly it’s nice to have something that’s affordable and has some variety. I love my twin bay hoppers but with the postwar era rolling stock it rings similar to Henry Fords statement that you could have a model T in any color so long as it was black. Great video as always!
Thank you very much!
I’m an F3 enthusiast. Starting from 1980, the details on the f3 were better than the 2383 and variants, since they slowly brought back features like portholes
Excellent point!
MPC was about the only company in ANY scale to mass produce "Bankrupcy Blue Rock Island locos & cars while the Rock was still in business!
I have a switcher & porthole caboose, but they also made GP-7's and GE units too...
Born in 1961 and having my father's and older brothers' postwar Lionel trains every Christmas, when I got my first set in 1971, the MPC difference was immediately noticeable: thin O27 track, plastic flimsy trucks, and everything just felt light. Today, 50 years later, I still have that set.
I've never noticed any difference between Postwar, MPC, and modern O27 track (other than the occasional aluminum ties). I mix them all together on my layout. Lionel introduced the AAR plastic truck in 1957 - LONG before the MPC era (although some high-end O items still used bar-end trucks through the 1960s).
My grandmother bought the Milwaukee Special for me the year I was born. I still have it today. Thanks for the memories.
Great memories!
I think I heard somewhere a phrase that described MPC best. It helped bring back that interest in collectors and newcomers to the hobby. Bringing back postwar-esque sets and locos, and providing sets that anyone can pick up and buy at their local toy store. I will always have a soft spot for the MPC era diesels like my CNJ GP-9’s and Chessie System GP-20.
Very nice!
Nice review! The MPC-era was quite good, as it kept Lionel in the public's eye. The cars were just as nice as the later years of Lionel in the 60's and the wheel/axle combination was one of the best innovations that Lionel ever had. MPC came out with some real nice engines, steam and diesel along with sets, like the 1983 Twentieth Century Limited set, which I have, the Chessie set and the FARR series. The F3's had a modern horn and had clear porthole windows, with vertical motors and MagneTraction. Their steam locomotives were on par with anything that Lionel produced in the later 1950's, using the same boiler castings and adding back some of the detail that Lionel removed, over the years. All-in-all, MPC was a win for Lionel and us O gaugers. An excellent video, as always.
Thank you very much!
The MPC era 4-4-2 was the basis for my mid late nineties NYC freight set. That little 8632 has buku operating hours on it and still going strong to this day.
Good point about the new wheels -- yet ironically the green gond has a warped wheel (noticeable when it's spun @ 2:45). Fortunately they are easily changed.
The first train set my dad gave me new was the Lionel MPC Chesapeake Flyer set with the Mighty Sound of Steam. I still have that set today 50 years later and it is complete, I still operate and enjoy the set on a regular basis and it will be passed down to my kids. I grew up with Lionel MPC era trains and I still collect and operate Lionel MPC today. My dad enjoyed collecting Lionel trains when he was alive and my kids and I are continuing the tradition. I have a lot of great memories with the Lionel MPC era. There was a lot of well built Lionel MPC era trains, there still affordable and repairable today especially if some one is just getting into the toy train hobby. Every child should have a toy train set. I also have Lionel Post War and some Lionel from after the MPC era. I really enjoy and love my Lionel MPC era trains and I do not believe they are junk. Lionel MPC trains have there place in Lionel train history and are some of my favorites right alongside Lionel Post War trains. I would buy Lionel MPC era trains over anything Lionel is making today. Lionel MPC era will probably outlast anything Lionel is making today. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and it was a great time for me. Thank you for another great video and yes lets all keep the trains running.
Keep the trains running!
Thank you. It’s really important for people to understand that the junkification was done in the 10 rears preceding MPC.
Indeed. MPC began where The Lionel Corp left off.
The best part about it, is if they think it's junk makes more for the ones on a budget. A little care and cleaning on the trucks and my old 2025 can pull all i put behind it. I do know that with the wheels on them they do roll super sweet. Awesome video and super informative.
Thank you!
I feel like the MPC era is the Mustang II of O Gauge Trains. Everyone likes to bash on it, but they wouldn’t be where they are without it.
Interseting comparison.
Great video!! Like you MPC was era I grew up with. Was very fortunate started with The Black River freight, and later my dad and I built a table. Soon The Chesapeake Flyer was added to the layout. Finally culminating in The Blue Comet being added.
So yes loved MPC era - today I use them with my modern Lionel trains.
The Blue Comet is a great set!
The best part is price. I was a newbie to O scale trains in the early 2000s, and I could go to train shows and buy a lot of mpc era cars for amazing prices. Even better if the boxes were in rough shape.
MPC bargains are still out there! Thanks for sharing!
as a service station worker yes on some of the motor brush covers and bottom bushings and there coupler assy they were bad
Another great innovation were the diecast sprung trucks introduced on the Standard-O series
Mike -
I run both post war and MPC era Lionel trains, while definitely different, especially weight wise, hard to say which is "better" from a functional stand point. The post war offerings have certainly withstood the test of time, but the MPC era locos and rolling stock do run smoother and quieter. Nice to have options. Thanks for all the great work and have a great holiday!
A happy and blessed holiday to you as well!
I noticed a misprint in the 9400 series boxcar #9423. The graphic said NY, New Hampshire and Hartford but the Logo looks like the early pre McGuiness NY, NH & H.
MPC finally seems to be getting some recognition these days among collectors and UA-camrs. I’m as guilty as any for calling it junk, but the reality is that the 70s were a dark time for O gauge and MPC did what it could to make Lionel trains interesting.
Agreed! Thanks for sharing!
I LOVE the MPC freight car wheels so much. I use the PRR Baby madisons for my 681 turbine
Nice! And they are the right size for the Turbine, too!
I have several MPC diesels and electrics, and they look and run just as good as their postwar counterparts. Heck, I'm glad I have the MPC versions of the Virginian Rectifier and Great Northern EP5 as they're affordable alternatives to the ridiculously expensive originals.
Excellent!
The MPC Era added my CN trains. Hardest part of being a Canadian postwar collector. There was only CP with postwar.
I'm probably going to have to make my own VIA Rail train.
Were the Canadian Pacific Postwar F3’s as hard to find and as expensive in Canada as they are in the United States?
More expensive
The majority of my collection is mpc era and it all works/runs great. Love my colorful u-boats and ease of use of the locomotives. Put em on the track and they work. Sometimes I get taken back by all of my mpc stuff, because they still look great even today.
Keep the trains running!!
The 8206 Hudson 4 6 4,Sound of Steam n whistle Steam Engine.
Brought me back to Lionel. Purchased it at Madison Hardware.
And kept going back and started collecting again.
Great story!
Great video, and I agree with your MPC review. I'm a child of the MPC era. 😉
Thanks for sharing!
It's nice to have steam locomotives that say something other than "Lionel Lines" on the tender...
Or Pennsylvania.
That Chicago and Alton set has long been one of my favorites. My biggest complaint about MPC, is the couplers. The delrin pins are very weak.
It was the colors , graphics, and the various current road names at the time that I appreciated over postwar.
I agree.
The biggest issue with MPC stuff was how poorly it was treated. The gears may crack, but many of the issues I have seen people complain were when they ran the engines with way more cars than intended and ran way to much voltage through the motors burning them up and stripping the gears. Operator abuse was a large part of the problem. MPC also brought in Olium bearings that lasted longer.
Some very good points. Thank you!
I have a lot of MPC Lionel the 8111, 8030, Blue Santa fe Alco and a ton of Ho lionel. Great video
That's a great collection!
I had the 8030 Illinois Central GP-9 when I was young back then bought it brand new from the Train Store.
Was a good reliable engine but it had 1 major problem.
That thing would derail on a curve for no reason and it drove me nuts!
No matter which way I ran it, it would randomly derail on a curve.
With cars, without cars, going slow, going fast, and never consistent. It might run for 10 minutes, then derail, then next time 1 minute, derail.
Dealer went though it, I took care of it, it did it from the day I brought it home.
If I remember it had 2 rollers and 2 springs. I even thought maybe to much tension on the springs and not enough weight so I would take the tension off the spring for the roller frame.
Still did it !
Fantastic video on MPC. Certainly plenty of innovation and variety. I really like my blue comet, southern crescent, Chicago Alton, and other higher end steam engines of the day. They made their share of cheap junky trains, like my 8300 I’ve had since I was three, it still works, but the higher quality trains are a whole lot of fun and worth collecting
The high-end MPC era locomotives are beautiful and well-built.
I agree with your evaluation of MPC. I was an authorized Lionel Service Station during those years and really enjoyed buying and selling and repairing th many MPC items. And yes, Lionel did produce a large number and variety of rolling stock and engines.
The next video that popped up was the one where you got 4 shells on eBay and then proceeded to strip of the paint on the lag get shell. did you ever try using hot concentrated solution of Tide detergent. I have found that is really works well and can be used over and over - just ad a little moe water every so often. but the solution has got to be really hot and after a few days the paint just slusoghs off. rinse it nd a little tooth bushing and it is ready to paint. Try it sometime. And thanks for all your great videos.
I tried Tide in the past with OK results. On the U36 shell, some layers came off easily while others were tough. I think the metallic blue was old Floquil lacquer. It depends on the paint type. The old Santa Fe F3 came off super fast and easy with the Purple Power.
Outstanding Topic and Video! Great Job👍🔥🙏❤️💪🇺🇸
Glad you enjoyed it
Very nice Video!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Mpc is what got me started. I still collect mainly mpc and some postwar.
mpc rolling stick is a lot quieter than anything before with the flat wheels and axles. My main problem with mpc is the wheels on the engines are sometimes drilled a little off-center making them wobble. But they did have some absolutely beautiful steam engines. The baby Hudsons, the bigger Hudsons with the Berkshire boiler and the Berkshires had some gorgeous paint schemes.
With all the mpc billboard boxcars and refrigerated cars, it's easy to find a car that reminds me of someone that is no longer with us. Cracker Jack car reminds me of my papaw because he always brought them to give us when we was little. Butterfinger car for my mom, just different things like that I'll get to remind me of the people I've loved and lost.
The memories are priceless!
I compare the MPC era to what happened to the Ford Mustang in 1974. Many hated the Mustang II for years but without it no Mustang of today. Same with Lionel.....no MPC era Lionel goes away. Thx
MPC Lionel also gave us "big steam" Hudsons, Berkshires and even a Mikado and Northerns in more road names than Lionel Lines, Pennsylvania and New York Central and color schemes beyond "basic black." We also got prototype cab numbers for several steam locomotives, like the J Class, Pennsylvania Turbine and Southern Mikado.
Good points! Thanks for sharing!
I recall Lionel making 027- gauge track in the early 1970s that had ties that were brown with a black "wood grain" pattern on them.
Yes. For a short time.
MPC made some super slot cars with the Dyno Charger white ‘57 Corvette and the Dyno Can red Makoshark. At the time the fastest on commercial tracks at relative reasonable costs. They preceded the rewind small cans still in use today.
I think the MPC Berk/Hud was a charming model.
Great video Mike!!! As you know I love and grew up with Lionel MPC and I just can not fathom why Lionel LLC is starting to go away from their Traditional Line routes with their new offerings. The last engine I bought from them was the Lionchief Plus 2.0 Rock Island GP- 7 but that engine is more scale like than their previous GP-7's along with the Rock Island I now have a total of four. Quite frankly I wish that the Lionel LLC. team would leave well enough alone and stop making changes to what had already been (since about 2010) good Traditional Line products at good affordable prices. I personally would like to see more of this line in railroad namesthat I like and which I have many of. Thank You for sharing this and as always Happy Railroading!!!!
It seems that the market is more toward scale items right now. Things will likely come be back around eventually.
I hope so right now I am gravitating more towards the Menards Line of O gauge and O-27 gauge trains because right now that company is making more of the older type Lionel like trains that I like (for instance the 4 bay quad hoppers and boxcars) and other items that have their roots in the old Lionel designs. I guess that we will have to wait and see and again Thank You so much for sharing this!!!!
New(er) to the hobby. We mostly collect Postwar locomotives and boxcars. The games 773 is out of reach price-wise. Is the 783 a good piece?
My 783 has been good to me, it’s way stronger than our 60’s 773. The top speed is still rather low but it’s still a decent puller. Like with most MPC engines before you put power to the tender, take the shell off and check the foam between the frame and the whistle/SOS board
@ Is the loco and tender plastic or diecast?
@ die-cast like the 1950 773, the trucks are the same 6 wheel trucks from the blue comet, Chessie steam special, and the Chicago & Alton
BOTH ARE DIECAST
My favorite was the re issue of The General Set. It was the first train I purchased on lay away as a kid.
Very nice!
Mike quick question if mpc is considered junk then why do train shop sell them for outrageous prices the hobby shop will not buy or carry them then I went in their last week and looked through the lionel section and found four mpc cotton belt and southern pacific box cars the shop wanted 76 dollars each I pointed bout that they werebmpv o gauge box cars didn't make a difference on 5he manufacturers he said they werevlionel
Hmm. Maybe a pricing issue at the hobby shop. A quick look at eBay shows several 6-9414 Cotton Belt cars in great shape for $25 or less. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=lionel+mpc+9414+cotton+belt+boxcar&_sacat=0&_odkw=lionel+mpc+9414+cotton+belt+boxcart&_osacat=0
The Blue Comet & Southern Crescent sets from the late 70's stand out, too!
They were very nice!
I have a 4 4 2 with the sound of steam. It runs great. Yes it doesn't pull a lot of cars but the only thing I have wrong iss the front truck spring. The spring is to light to keep the truck on track or through turnouts. The diesels later on wee still very good. Some of the old postwar ones had a problem with the motor sides becoming loose and throwing the armature off.
MPC had some cool accessories but I do like the post-war stuff my dad and grandpa got me as a 90's kid. I ran those things till the wheels fell off and then my grandpa would help me rebuild them.
Thanks! I actually like the Lionel MPC era - it's cheaper for me than the postwar and current years! :D
Absolutely!
First, I love your videos so please don't take what I'm about to say as criticism. I also grew up in the '70s with MPC trains. Agree with you regarding the Baby Madisons and fast-angle wheels. The decoration was great, and the 8010-series diesel power truck is better than what Lionel was making in the '60s. The line of MPC-era 4-4-2s derived from the postwar 2037 ended with UP 8102 in 1981. That tooling was out of the lineup for 8 years, returning circa 1989 in a 2-6-4 configuration which continued through the mid-'90s. The 4-4-2s being sold today descend from the entry-level 2-4-2 'Columbia' (although that's a bit like saying it's your grandfather's axe when the head and handle have both been changed!) with the biggest evolutionary leap coming in 1984. I'm an operator, and in most cases MPC locos can be improved by the substitution of Postwar motors, chassis, etc. Maybe a good subject for a head-to-head comparison? Thanks for sharing, and look forward to more of your videos!!
Appreciate the feedback and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
I was a Lionel service station during the 70's and sold MPC as well as Marx. I gave it up when they came out with Power Passers.
👍Like - Excellent video about Lionel History. ✅
Thank you!
There is something price vs quality to suit both ends of thought. My self quality wins out every time. So the negative quality features of mpc out weights the plus engineering changes. But nice that others still find mpc acceptable. Lionel after about 1960 vs the pre/post war trains is kinda like comparing a Prius to a BMW or Mustang.
Yes. Lionel in 1965 was a shadow of Lionel in 1955.
Looking for passenger coaches, I wound up with a set of Milwaukee Road lighted coaches. I believe these are MPC cars. They look good and operate flawlessly. They do have the non operating couplers I believe the combine has one operating coupler on it.
Yes, the Milwaukee set was among the first. There are also several add-on cars to the set and if you look hard eneough you can make a VERY impressive Milwaukee Road passenger train!
Just some information about the Mexico Disaster. Since the early 70's, Lionel signed a dealership with a long tenured mexican toy manufacturer (Lily Ledy). As a matter of fact, a hughe portion of Lionel's HO production was made in Mexico by them. I have 2 of those Ledy Trenes (That was their name here) and they still work wonderfuly. But there's one issue. Lily Ledy was bought by MPC in 1979, and they have hughe problems with the union, so Lily Ledy's plant in Naucalpan (Mexico City area) closed in 1981. They switched production then to Tijuana (Frontier city, next to San Diego) with highly unskilled laborers and they had also union trouble over there. That was told to me by a former Lily Ledy plant manager who was hired to start the plant at Tijuana, but quited after 3 months knowing the mess to come. Who knows, maybe in a few years, they will bring some production back to Mexico, now better prepared to do it right.
Thank for the info. I knew about the unskilled labor [I think CTT once had a photo showing in-production cars with Spanish instructions printed on them to assist with basic assembly], but I was unaware of the union issues.
I knew that ALL Fundamensions couldn't be junk because I acquired a Lionel HO diesel from the 1970s (made in Michigan) that ran just fine (and that was before I even knew HOW to do any basic maintenance to keep it going). Then, recently, my daughter found a Lionel O gauge Fundamensions set in box for me for $15. I cannot complain!
Thanks for sharing!!
Hi Mike MPC MATT here again lwas wondering could you do a video on the Standard O series of freight cars that Lionel MPC started producing in 1973 and which continues with Lionel LLC to this day?? Thanks again and have a Very Merry Christmas!!!
An interesting suggestion. I'd need to do a bit of research first as I've never owned one of these cars.
I grew up playing with Lionel from the 60s, they used heavy plastic and metal knuckle connectors. When I first saw MPC trains was turned off by light plastic body’s and solid couplers. This video opened my eyes, I had no idea about! Honestly seeing the changes in the quality It made me lose interest in Lionel trains as an adult.
Thanks for sharing. Many 1960s Lionel products had no operating couplers, and sometimes no decoration at all. There were forward-only 2-4-0 steamers and FAs and NW2s with single-axle drive. The high-end product was good, but starter set products were not much better - if at all - to early MPC starter sets.
@ I recently bought some Marx trains, did not know anything about them, seeing Marx trains compared to MPC, MPC was superior to Marx.
MPC brought fun back to running trains again.
Plenty of others have said it and I HAVE to concur, if General Mills didn't see value in the Lionel name we'd have NO Lionel's today, period. The "Big L" would have passed from the scene, most likely forever. The MPC/General Mills era was a bail-out sorely needed since the people running Lionel by 1969 seemed to have NO idea of what to do with the product line. It happens with a lot of companies. Lionel got lucky and so did we!
Absolutely! Thanks for sharing!
Just like Harley Davidson and the AMF era.
I still loved these trains I was born in 1979 and have alot of them
Excellent!!
I remember decent Lionel MPC products at Sears and Kmart
I really like the baby Madisons, they look sharp and even the ones without working couplers don't bother me because other than at the engine, why would you really want to uncouple individual cars? It also makes them great for constant operation, like under a Christmas tree, since its one less thing to fail on them.
Good point!
I have trains from that period that I wouldn’t trade for any of the stuff today.
I wanted an Atlantic, but that (air whistle) sent me THAT! (Glares at bottom budget southern 2-4-0
I have a bunch of MPC high cubes. They look great behind any locomotive set.
Indeed. They look nice behind larger/taller diesels.
My uncle has quite a number of items from the MPC era of Lionel. In my opinion, they're not that bad, and they're pretty fun to play around with, just like everything else.
And fun is good!
The one problem was the tire drive, and wheels causing excessive wobble on some engines
Sound of steam terrible..
Whistles not great..
But they kept it going..good for them
If it weren't for M.P.C there wouldn't be Lionel anymore .
True. Thanks for sharing!
"Chessie System" on a steam engine (or steam pulling Chessie cars) always cracked me up.
You mean, like THIS? ua-cam.com/video/lNZlZwO3bQE/v-deo.htmlsi=p2A4y0VcWdu4z2Hj
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks did Lionel MPC really base a set based on a steam engine in the 70's that was strictly a tourist attraction during that era? My late 70's "Chesapeake Flyer" steam set set had a mix of C&O, B&O and Chessie, which absolutely would not have happened (being pulled by a 4-4-2, that is).
@wymotome There was a great deal of publicity around the Chessie Steam Special, so it was a logical choice. Ask AHM why they made an HO scale steamer in Conrail blue!
😂 polyester bell bottom pants😂 ok for the summer, not so good for the winter! The cold wind would cut right through them!
I didn't wear long johns, but trying to be cool 😎, I started wearing them! 😮😃
I have to argue about the 4-4-2 Atlantic steamers still being used are based off of MPC, as Lionel all but discontinued making those quality steamers after the introduction of the USRA 0-8-0. The Ones Lionel is manufacturing now are more based off of their scout line and less of the higher quality die-cast MPC and Lionel INC steamers
Thanks for pointing that out.
I watched your video on making Christmas trains and about how you said about using a locomotive with Christmas colors; sometimes, with steam locomotives, a black steam locomotive will work fine, especially with the Polar Express. I'm doing a Polar Express theme with my Christmas trains (since this year marks 20 years since the release of the movie, "The Polar Express") and to go with the theme, I'm pulling the Christmas trains with black steam locomotives, I'll be posting the video on UA-cam either Christmas eve or Christmas day
Rule #1: It's your railroad! I'll be posting my 2024 Christmas layout soon.
Also, about how you said the MPC Lionel Southern Crescent and Chicago and Alton passenger sets would fit into a Christmas setting being in Christmas colors. Would you say the same for the MPC Blue Comet train set?
@robertlucido3686 Well, red and green are traditional Christmas colors, but you can have a Blue Christmas if you want to!
Funny, you should say that because that's going to be my theme for next Christmas, where my Christmas trains are pulled by blue locomotives, that's the color of my railroad
MPC era is era is not Junk.MPC is generation X .My generation.Check out My 1987 MPC 027 Track 2nd level on my 40 foot Fastrack 027 track Model Train layout.65 switch Tracks.Five 45 degree crossovers.Two 90 degree crossovers.MOC Lighted bumpers.027 track runs excellent
Thanks for sharing!!
I've dealt with MPC trains, and I wouldn't term them junk. They're still better than a lot of the Chinese whatnot that you can get today. Some of it, I dislike, but everything else is all right.
One thing that I absolutely HATE is one of the many cases where a railcar has a working knuckle coupler on only one end. Yes, it works, but its a real hassle.
Also--you should NEVER buy smoke fluid because mineral oil is infinitely cheaper and is smoke fluid without any scents.
I'm finally getting a chance to watch this video in its entirety. While I am a late prewar-early postwar guy at heart, I have a soft spot for MPC era trains. The quality is actually better than late 1960s issue stuff in my opinion. That single axle drive diesel motors Lionel issued in the 1960s? I don't believe they ever used that in the 1970s. Those cheap Scout motors Lionel made in the 1960s? Gone as well. And I do have a soft spot for those little 0-4-0 tank engines they made. I added an E unit to a DC model, hooked recifier diodes to the motor brush wires from the E-unit, so it runs on AC and has a neutral position. Did that with the DC powered GE switchers as well. Most of MPC's failures can be chalked up to trying something new that did not work as expected, and trying, and failing, is better than not trying at all.
You make a lot of excellent points!
I certainly have also seen the 'MPC is junk' sentiments floated around. Well, secondhand MPC is how I got my start in O gauge, and honestly I don't think it was significantly lesser in quality than most of what Lionel was selling in the waning years of the 1960s.
I've always disliked the Symington-Wayne truck frames, but the needle point axles and fast angle wheels were a brilliant move. Something not all collectors are aware of, is that in the very early MPC era, some trains were produced with AAR trucks that had the new wheels and axles. The easiest way to find them is on earlier production 9200 series 'Famous Roadnames' boxcars- but all trains made in 1970, as well as perhaps some in 1971 should have them. It seems like by 72 or 73 the Symington-Wayne trucks had completely replaced them. The presence of AAR trucks does not seem to command any premium, but they are my preference- unfortunately of course, only findable on rolling stock produced very early in the MPC years.
Agreed. I never understood the choice of XL-70 trucks - and even K-Line used them in the 1980s!!
If not for MPC Lionel would not exist today. Much like Harley Davison would not exist if AMF would not have bought them. MPC put out some quality product. In 1982 my wife to be gave me a Chelssteam special set with a bride groom, wedding bride, and a small German Shepherd on the rear platform my dog Char at the time. This is the most valuable set I own. The MPC Train masters from what I see were made exactly like the post war train masters metal gears in big AC motors. Also, I own a number of F3 with nylon gears. I listen to the opinions so-called experts told me they would wear out and break. As long as you keep them greased, they will last many years. Because of their advice, I bought three sets of nylon gears to replace them when they went bad. 40 years later I have not used one gear. When I hear opinion that NPC was junk. They heard it from someone else and have no experience with these engines. I am an MPC fan postwar pre-war Lionel. And most of the new products. This is just my opinion and the experience that I have with MPC.I
Agreed. I have never had a nylon gear fail on any of my MPC engines. I LOVE the Chessie Steam Special set and I someday hope to acquire one. Thanks for sharing!
The MPC trains were good but not perfect. There are certain boxcars I had that I would buy again for sure.
Certainly not perfect.
They had some missteps but I would not classify it as their Malaise Era.
Thanks for sharing!
A majority of my rolling stock is MPC.
Mine, too! Although my Postwar collection is catching up.
When I was little, early 80s, I got the burgundy Chicago & Alton like the one in this video, along with all the cars... Even though my Dad and I both have pretty extensive collections, that train has ran every year for almost a month solid flying around the Christmas tree... Say whatever you will, I would bet dollars to donuts in 40+ years these fancy Odyssey engines won't still be running, either the boards in them fried or the technology changed so much you can't run them. I have said this before, there is beauty in simplicity. My Dad loves this new stuff, these extreme giant engines... but he is a collector that rarely unboxes and doesn't even run his engines, he buys them for the looks. For me it is finding and old engine like I did a couple of weeks ago, a Commodore Blue Streak, found in the bottom of a box under a pile of track still in its original box. Oiled, threw it on the track and she took off like it was nothing after 90 some years... I just don't see todays engines doing that with all the tech in them that is required to make them go.
There is joy in the simple things.
In my opinion, Lionel MPC was of a lower quality than was the post-war era (for the most part). However, they also gave us performance improvements such as the needle bearing axils and the beveled wheels (though with plastic trucks at first) which allowed for longer trains. Later, another addition from MPC which actually destroys the old postwar designs are the diecast sprung trucks. On one can argue that this was not a major improvement as they are copied by every manufacturer even today. By the mid -late 70's, MPC had begun matching the quality of the postwar locomotives with the reissue of magnetraction. An MPC FM is pound for pound as good as the original for example. Now, where MPC absolutely does destroy postwar Lionel is in the colorful; paint schemes. There is no way that the original drab black 2046 for example can match it's 1978 counterpart Blue Comet, Southern or Chicago & Alton. I have grown to appreciate the MPC Eras along with the prewar and postwar eras.
Thanks for the insights!!
In 1969 Lionel Corp did not go bankrupt and it wasn’t forced to license the trains out they thought they could do better in their other businesses 😊
Well, we're both partially right. Lionel filed bankruptcy in August 1967, not 1969. But they did sell the rights to the train production to General Mills in 1969, helping to keep the rest of the company afloat.
I don't like the DC locos, the truck sidefame, and the all plastic coupler.
I have a DC loco (0-4-0 Tank Engine) that I plan to convert to AC, probably via mechanism swap of some sort. I tend to operate on different people's layouts, so I feel that it's not right to ask them to make changes to their layout to accommodate it.
I call the trucks that use that sideframe a Korean or overseas truck since I first noticed it on some cars produced in Korea. What's with those trucks? I've never encountered anything like it in my reading about US railroads.
The plastic finger used as a spring will weaken and fail over time. I keep all couplers in the open position to allow the spring to relax when not in use to try and extend their life.
The Symington-Wayne XL-70 trucks were often used on high-speed equipment such as express boxcars and reefers. However, they were pretty much extinct by the time Lionel adopted them.
Marx guy here, I thought die- cast was a thing of the past by the 1970s.
There are many O gauge die cast products on the market today. Tin lithography, on the other hand...
Just like the uppedy only lionel guys if not lionel it's junk personally I can't afford new lionel products on a retirement income and never mind MPC pulled lionels but out of the bankrupt fires
Agreed. I personally LOVE these products!
Love ur honest analysis of the hobby nice work or passion how ever u want to state it 👍 😊
Some MPC was lightweight crud and others were better.
Just like Postwar. Thanks for sharing!
Hmm... How would I express my viewpoint of the MPC era? Most people view this era as a cheapen era. Are they correct? Well, this video does present viewpoints that contradict the idea, but I can see the viewpoint of O Guage operators of the time. One of my turn offs of the era is the choice of trucks. They just scream of oddball-cheap quality. As a person who does value scale options versus compromise in some situations, this tips the scales in a negative favor. Throw in the fact of the changes to DC powered locomotives, it leads to the perception of lower quality even if it isn't always true.
As someone who operates not only O gauge, but HO scale. The 1970s era of model railroading is viewed as a "Low Quality Era" due to manufactures trying to optimize cost over quality. This led some long-time modelers the quality issues that aroused to be an issue.
Good points! Thanks for sharing!
The MPC era ended in 1972 to become Fundimensions through 1985.
Technically correct, but since Fundimensions and MPC were both under the same General Mills corporate banner, they are generally referred to in the hobby as the "MPC years" - including 1985-1986 when they were under the Kenner group.
The MPC logo never appeared on any Lionel product after 1972. While both Lionel and MPC were part of the Fundimensions group, Lionel became its own division under Fundimensions. I enjoy your videos and don't mean to be critical but referring to the years after 1972 as MPC years, as many do, is not correct. @@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks
You are, of course, correct about the corporate structure. But for better or worse, "MPC" has become the common term among hobbyists for the era. When asked what era of Lionel someone prefers, I do not recall anyone ever responding with "Fundimensions" or "General Mills". They say "MPC".
The MPC era brought forth the 783 Hudson which was the 4th. best engine Lionel ever produced upon release. Behind the 700E, 763, and 1950 773 but ahead of the 1964 773 and tied with the 784 B&A Hudson Then in 1987Lionel ditched the FUGLY Magnetraction drivers and made their best engine since the prewar era in the 785. This engine has open spoked drivers and a tall stack motor. The 785 is better than ANY 773. It is unfortunate that Lionel MPC modeled their trucks after the Symington-Wayne XL-70 trucks. I used to dislike the plastic trucks operationally but when I finally built a large layout, I came to see them as an improvement. You can pull longer trains with plastic trucks. MPC steamers are OK but the diesels were trash and didn't improve until the Kughn era.
Thanks for the feedback!!
You had me until you made it political.
My intention was a comment on the turmoil of the era - not on the merits of a particular candidate. [However, if you DO interpret it that way, did I not in that case ding both Nixon (photo) AND Carter ("gas lines")?] Thanks for watching!
Hav a lot of mpc freight rolling stock I enjoy all my trains no matter who makes them
Wonderful!
If mpc I'd junk why are the prices so high for used models