Thanks for the update Ben, some impressive engineering going on there ! Your followers are uplifted to see that😋 work on the chopper continues. Good decision to drop that square aluminium shaft, many of us on the side-lines were uneasy about that idea.
This sliding torsion joint does feel like a better engineered solution, Ben. What you really want is a way of testing it in situ, with strip down and inspection, to build up some confidence. I never cease to be impressed at what goes on at the Devonshire BADGER works...
@@martingarrish4082 Sounds good to me Martin, I can test it in situ, no problem, anchored to the trailer like I did in the beginning. I must remember to use to code name, it's very funny. 😆👍
😀 thanks Tyger, much appreciated comment. I enjoy the engineering, unfortunately the part I made I might not use 🙄 found a potential issue that means it isn't ideal. Looking into other options at the moment but I'm learning things I didn't know in the process.
@@DktheWelder Thank you. Yes, absolutely it will take a long time to make. The helicopter though is all a bit like that, tons of machining and all of it needs to be as accurate as you can. Mental project really, when you make one you will know all about it. 😉
@@Ben-Dixey getting on with the rotor head I had some problems with the gears . I used two stage gearbox for speed reduction, with engine rpm of 12000 I needed an output of 1000 to 1200 rpms so I designed a gearbox for such purpose.. First I used an angle grinder gearbox head for the first stage bringing the speed to 3428 rpms and multiple the torque which then fed into the second gearbox of another angle grinder gearbox and then final output of 1079 rpms) my helicopter weigh 13 KGS and the engine was an oleo mac gsh 51 chainsaw with 3hp My problem came as the final stage gearbox my first test flight was a success, my second test flight was when I noticed the teeth of the gears are broken, I think the multiple torque was just too much for the gears resulting in stress and then the failure. So working on how to get a stronger and better gears for the project. Any ideas
@@OYEUAV That's a shame about the gears, what wattage angle grinder was it that you used the gearbox from? It's the multiplication of torque that's the problem. As you know the torque is multiplied by the gear ratio. What torque does your engine produce ? If you know that then you can work out what torque is going through your reduction gearboxes. You will need to find a gearbox that is designed for the torque that you are putting through it. Of course it has to be lightweight too, that's the challenge we face.
@@rasmAn2 it's been very good for a long time but recently has been shutting down when I rotate a part or sometimes other functions, like save ! Very annoying I'll have to upgrade soon. Yeah the laptop is old too but still just about works 😆
Love this design, much better than the old square tubing. However, I'm still not convinced by the choice of aluminium. Although the alternative I have in mind (Titanium) may be better, but extremely expensive. Also, hardened steel pins and aluminium together, will corrode like a bugger, wouldn't they? I dunno, I'm still very impressed how you just 'one day' thought, I fancy building a helicopter, and then did it. Keep it up Ben. I just love this series. Cant wait till the next episode. 🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟
@@simonwatson5299 Thanks very much for the enthusiastic comment, greatly received. 👍 I've never machined titanium but as you say boy is it expensive. One day maybe I will be machining that material. I looked at replacing some of the bolts with titanium ones, a price for one m6 x30 bolt is £3.50! I think the aluminium will only corrode with steel with the presence of an electrolyte, like water or salt water. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.
Continually amazed by your engineering expertise and your free can-do thinking. The way I look at these videos is that you are building a helicopter so I don’t have to - you are literally a lifesaver 😂. Also, reading the comments on your eckranoplan I want to be the first here to say “YOU NEED A GUARD ON THAT!” 😂. Keep going Ben. Great stuff.
Thanks a lot, Bob? The prop guard comments oh my, didn't expect that at all. Thanks for your common sense responses to that. I don't know why I didn't have rotor guard comments on the helicopter too, the bottom rotor is head hight, if you walked into that you wouldn't walk away. It needs a guard !!!! 😉
@@JFSmith-nb8hf thanks, I like both but rotary wings are definitely a bit crazy. If you were an onlooker at a pioneer of rotary wing craft I think you would condemn the idea as totally nuts. Im pretty sure that would be my opinion, it does make you think about how determined the pioneers were with no doubt endless opinions from people.
Solidworks 2003 ? Это все еще продолжает прекрасно работать ! Единственно что можно добавить, что расточка чистового диаметра должна была быть завершающей операцией после обдирки боковых граней.
G'day Ben, Yikes ! You sure do have a lovely workshop, and you're doing lovely things there, too ; a far cry from my day here today - Chainsaw-Carpentry by Eye, on 2nd-hand 30mm x 90mm Radiata Pine, left here by the Concretors after they finished pouring the 3 Slabs... Cobbling up the frame, to support some old Corrugated Fibreglass Roofing material - to conjure up a "Lean-To" Battery-Box up against the South Wall of the new little Toyshed. The Electric Motorscooter needs 480 A/hr of Gel-Cells at 24 Volts to feed the 60 Volt Battery Charger....; and after shelling out for the Shed, and the Slab under it, and the paying a Builder to fight with the Shed Kit, and the Thermal Insulation to make it worth being inside the thing... I decided that as the Bill approached $10g for 3m by 3.77 m..., a thousand dollars per square meter of floorspace was a very expensive place to locate a dozen Batteries which will squat on about 1.2 Square metres of the Floor... Who knew an Electric Motorbike would be so complicated to wean off the Generator which has now charged the thing 50 times in 1,887 Km (!). I was glad to hear that the telescoping Square Tubes were but a passing notion..., and the Steel-reinforced Round Aluminium Tubes sound rather better...; though I do worry about the Steel/Aluminium Interface - under the repeated transmitted hammerings of all the Engine's Power-Strokes.. I'd expect the Steel to beat the Aluminium into submission, from Concussion-Fatigue ; but that's merely a cautious "feeling"... Most of what I do is based on Guesswork. Whereas I'm pretty sure that you actually know what you're talking about...! Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
radiata pine? LOOOXOOREH! lol, i had a roof of giant bamboo for a few years... that was fun to walk on, across a 6M span! especially as the borers moved in! another time, a tarp draped over some steel cables on "a-frames"... aka, old steel pallets bolted to shipping containers... another lil "temporary" shed with old advertising sign/coreflute roofing "shingles" zip tied together. the last section still stands and is still waterproof! near four years of constant rain tested it out... and delayed other things... like actually rivetting my current "shed" together, lol... kit? cheapest option was to just buy folded steel c-sections. lol... and had the tin held down with two ratchet straps for the last four years... finally screwed it down the other day... did i mention i havent rivetted the frame together? it has about five tek screws, and so far, its seen some near cyclonic storms, too! sigh... never ending projects, and shoving everything into a shipping container to get the slab poured really didnt do much for "organisation"... but i did get about 5K worth of concrete alone for 1K... mates rates :) plus some labourers, helicopter finish, and reo.... closer to 25K as an actual paid job? do a bit here, do a bit there, and try not going insane with the double, treble, dodeca-druple moving of stuff... meh, at least its sort of stopped raining? australia... supposed to be hot and dry, instead its apparently extremely cold and wet.
@@paradiselost9946 Yeah, it's all a bit like that. I'm still living in the Lawn Locker I put together here in 1991...insulated with 25mm of Foam, with a double layer of insulated Roofing riveted over the original. The Wrap-around Verandah with Deck on 3 sides helps, and the miniature Pot-Belly gets too hot - so a Thermosyphon-driven Heat-Exchanger draws cold Air from floor-level in the Sleep-out Bunkroom, & feeds it through a hollow Horseshoe-shaped "Hearth", to pump away the excess and dump the hot air into the Bunkroom. So, it's a Lawn Locker with delusions of adequacy...; and I was assuming that the 2023 Flatpack would be at least as good as the 1990 unit - but 35 years of Production Engineering has REALLY de-evolved the species. The Pine arrived pre-treated, and I'm painting it with Mould-Inhibited Linseed Oil, and it's all resting on, but not in, Concrete...; and the Brick Pallets my Deck is built on have lasted 34 years - while I'm 63, so the Pine-framed Battery-Box should outlast me (!). The Antarctic Circum-Polar Jetstream is breaking down, like the Arctic has been doing for a decade, apparently - firing blasts of cold Air out along the Meridians..., as if Gaia is desperately trying to "spread the Cool". Greenland's Ice Cap and West Antarctica's Thwaites Glacier are both barely being restrained by thinning Ice-Sheets, Greenland is covered with Soot melting Pools on the top of the ice, pouring Sun-warmed Water into Cracks to lubricate the underlying Bedrock..., whereas Thwaites has a Volcano under it to boil the Interface. Each one is good for 6 metres of Sea-Level Rise, and the first one to go will fracture the Ice-Sheet of the other - triggering it to follow. And apparently the upshot is that my $17,000 Firehose Collection might get to go another Season before I need to face-off against the next Firestorm... I claim to have the best-protected Lawn Locker in the worst Bushfire Fuelbomb in the 2370 Postcode ! 8 Billion selfish Fcukwits keep on voting to "Pursue Prosperity by growing the EcoGnomie - REGARDLESS of any alleged Fears of Environmental Damage or Consequences, as expressed by the so-called "Scientific Community" and other assorted Protesters - Malcontents who would seek to stand in the face of Progress...!" Or, words to that effect. Which may be why I have not worked in their EcoGnomie, not paid any Taxes on the Income I haven't earned, since 1986. Bugger them, with a Barbed-wire Dildo - they VOTED for all this Shit. I hope they fully appreciate it when their Infinitely Fractal Karma completely envelopes their entire existence.... Such has been their Selfish Choice.... And, meanwhile, you and I and others of our ilk get to play the most imaginative Game of Titanic Deckchairs which we can contrive so to do... And, when they who work to pay Taxes to fund their Paranoid Militarized Persecution Fantasies successfully (Suck Cess Fully...) turn each other's DNA into Compost ; we the Preppers get to compete with each other to be the longest-lasting Observers of The FOLLIES, left upon the Smoking ruined bare bald overcooked Desertified remains of what used to be a delightful sort of a Planet on which to live. 12,300 years of the Broadacre Death Kult of Harvest Everything-ism...; and WE get to be alive to watch the Finale...; By Jove..., What Luck, Olde Bean, Who'd 've thunk it...?!?! Thermonukeyoulater Waaauughhh(!) was really easy to prepare to outlive - to the point where until the USSR folded up and quit..., NATO & the WarPact appeared to be the SOLUTION to Anthropogenic Global Warming - by destroying the Global Industrial-scale Fossil-fuelled EcoGnomie... But they squibbed it. And then concentrated on Growing the (Sacred) EcoGnomie...; As if Nothing else on Earth Mattered. Somebody will probably manage to survive to breed, but my kids are 34 & 35, and neither has gone broody yet - so I'm pretty much paying Council Rates on a hundred Acres which I've run as an Endangered Species Sanctuary on an old Didgeridoo Factory (the Trees grow naturally hollow, from Droughts drying their Roots in the shallow Cracks in the Basalt Traprock Ridge - while shattered and flaked Basalt furnishes the most amazingly sharp Stone Woodworking Tools. Preserving a struggling Remnant of the Ecology which used to be here, before the first Sheep showed up in about 1840. It seems to make better sense than driving around the country busking Environmentalist Poetry, and telling Sheep-War Massacre Stories - which I spent about 5 years doing (burning 500 litres/year and emitting 1.25 tons of CO-2 annually while so engaged) - while the 8 Billion ignored me totally..., and concentrated on competing to trash the Planet ever faster than their neighbours. My Primary School must've been more effective than most. I remember when "The Tragedy Of The Commons" was published in 1968..., I was 7 years old, and in 3rd Class we spent an entire day having it explained to us. And I assumed that everybody else my age was being informed and educated equally well, at the time ; so it's been 56 years of observing the 3.1 Billion become 8 Billion, and apparently my Class of 7 year-olds was the only one on Earth to have received the 1968 Briefing on what was going Wrong...(?) ! If you're into it...(?), I have 23 Playlists on the Channel - 8 being Wildlife Encounters, sorted by Species, and the Poetry is stashed in the "Warbles In The Wilderness..." Playlist ; with one Scroll devoted to "Mad Scientist Videos..." and another one for "Personal Aeroplanology...". 12 species of local Native Wildlife treat me as being their Family's pet Tame Human...; so my output might be made on a Potato-grade Phone-Camera, but the material is pretty unusual... Such is life, Have a good one..... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
Nice! I`ll have to catch up with you stuff... Haven`t been watching you for a while... I`ve had my own shit to deal with, and hell if i don`t got more on my hands - truckloads, but i`ll have to check out what have you been doin` as my stuff seems to be stuck in place, so what the hell - might as well...
As for the drive shaft, Volvo used telescopic shafts as wheel drive shafts in, i believe, the XC90 (or something similar, not sure anymore), as a replacement for cv joints. it would be about the right size for your application, both in torque and size. trying to engineer something like that in the shed might be a bit of a challenge
Hi, the Volvo ball spline driveshafts are definitely an option, I would have to make my own lightweight version as the volvo shafts are way over engineered for my purpose but it's doable. You can buy ball splines from Thomson linear at a much more suitable size but they are £600. You have reminded me to have another look at making my own ball spline like the Volvo one, could be a better option. 👍
@@Ben-Dixey The drive shafts of a PAL-V (don't know if you ever heard of those) are a lightweight version of the Volvo ones, and while they might look simple the grooves for the balls are not simply circular in cross section, they are kind of two intersecting egg shapes iirc. The tolerances and surface treatments on them are also not for the faint of heart. If you're serious about making your own I might be able to sneak a peak at the drawing detail for it
@@rasmAn2 I hadn't heard of the Pal-V, flying car! At first glance it looks promising. I'll have a think about the option before taking up any of your time, thanks for the offer to look up some drawings. Interesting that the grooves are egg shaped, Hardening would certainly be necessary for a vehicle shaft applying around 2000-4000 lbs/ft of torque and for 1000's of miles but mine is only 55lbs/ft at engine max continuous power. Quite different requirements, so maybe hardening wouldn't be necessary. But the joint certainly would have to be made of steel. Do you work in the driveshaft industry? Or for Volvo ?
@@Ben-Dixey The main failure mode of ball spline shafts is not so much straight torque, but false brinelling due to oscillations in the applied torque, hardening helps a lot with that. Given that yours is a direct drive, given that yours is a 2cyl 2stroke, you have (correct me if wrong) a power stroke every 180ish degrees. The rotors are effectively a very large damper/flywheel combo, but a lot more flywheel than damper. I'd say considering the load in the shaft as +-75Nm LL is a reasonable start. This is why the egg-shape is quite vital there, to prevent the balls hammering from one side to another, and to provide a quasi-line contact instead of a point. flushing the grease often is going to help as well. Given that we are only looking at a relatively low torque, I wonder if the wizards at IGUS or Trelleborg have anything that might work. maybe not out of the box but they supply their magic slidy stuff as bar stock as well. I worked at PAL-V for 12 years, I've come to know a thing or two about constructing lightweight slightly impossible mechanisms:) Currently helping a marine diesel engine company get off the ground, so while still connected to the aviators, not on a daily basis anymore.
@@rasmAn2 Well it's great to have someone with your experience commenting, pretty cool. I found some igus linear rails some that can handle some torque, I'll find out more. 👍
nice to see you finish the project instead off abandon it. Would it be a option just using agriculture drive shafts from a PTO.? You will buy them with a free runner and a flat conection plate. they are heavy only good enough testing your rig and go from there>
@@ronald3148 👍 For testing, sure, as you say it's heavy so it could only be used for that but a lighter version could be made. The issue I was worried about is the friction in the plunging joint, it needs to be very freely moving. A joint that can move via bearings I think is a necessity. The PTO joints I've seen use a telescopic square drive and grease to reduce friction. I don't know how much friction is in that design to be fair but I would imagine it's too high. A spline is too high friction from my beach tests.
Hi, no plans to change the control mechanism at the moment, I would just like it useable again as the first priority. However I do have future plans to add collective pitch for example.
You should modify that chuck, as a set tru chuck. For milling, you should try a roughing end mill, it removes way more material with less load. That carbide tool removes so little(I have it and never use it). How did you make the outer radiuses?
Hi, I hadn't heard of a set tru Chuck, would certainly be nice to have. Will look at prices. Great shout on the roughing milling cutter, I've not really used them but I have a few, didn't realise they were so much quicker, will try it. The outer radiuses were just done using the DRO radius function. It's gives you two coordinates to move to in X and Y and then you plunge in Z. It takes a little time but not too bad. Thanks for the tips 👍
@@Ben-Dixey I have the radius function, but never tried it. next project I will try, thanks for the tip. You can modify your existing chuck, by machining down a bit on the mounting flange of the lathe spindle, drill and tap 4 threads in the chuck body(12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions), install 4 set/grub screws. These will align the chuck to be true.
experience of centrifugal clutches? they do NOT LET OFF as long as they are rotating at engagement speed. no matter how theyre designed, as long as they are rotating, those shoes are engaged. yeah, it nearly cost me my front teeth on one certain homebuilt motorbike years ago... was NOT expecting the compression braking to be so powerful! the clutch from a honda C90 etc, theyre a sort of semi centrifugal, semi manual clutch but not sure how you would get one in there. they do disengage when you press the shift lever. (yes, they can be clutch-started!) the best one way clutch is the sprag clutch from an automatic transmission. seen far too many "needle clutches" fail to trust them. whereas sprags "lock on" regardless, as they dont use rollers, rather, little "plates" or "dogbones". good idea to drop the linear needle bearings... i may have mentioned this on another video, but the "cannondale headshox" use the same design and suffer "bearing creep", they have to be dismantled occasionally and have them pushed back where they belong... and my opinion from way back is that only ONE of those needles on each face will actually take the majority of load. seems you have now taken the path similar to what i sort of described earlier :) slots and pins... regards uni joints... you need a pair of them or you get nasty harmonics from nonconstant velocity as the angle changes.... you can make them "inside each other" though. a "cardan joint". either that or a proper CV joint... otherwise "something" has to absorb the variations in speed through every 1/4 rotation... lol, 2:50... i blame the "southpaw click".
@@paradiselost9946 Great comment as always. Wouldn't a "centrifugal clutch" release if the primary way it drives is through leverage rather than the centrifugal force? The Bensen B9 clutch in the video seems to be less about centrifugal weight creating friction but more about the points at which the friction shoes are levered against drum. Therefore I would expect it to release, no doubt with some friction still present due to what centrifugal force is present. Would you agree ? I hadn't seen the example of the bicycle forks using flat cage rollers, interesting. I haven't got any experience in using the needle roller clutch bearings so I guess we will have to see if they fail or not but there are 5 of them when one can handle the max engine torque. Sprag clutches are no doubt stronger. I had forgotten you mentioned slots and pins, but I suppose thats how the brain works, ideas get thought of but you can't always remember where it came from. 🙂 There will be two universal joints to balance the speed variations. Southpaw click was to blame 😆
@@paradiselost9946 I've been thinking about your comment on the two universal joints. My plan was to have a universal joint just above the clutch and a universal Joint at the top. This I thought would be ok as it's just like a prop shaft on a car but actually it's occurred to me that it might not. With the head tilted fully to the side the top universal joint will have a 3 degree tilt but the bottom won't change angle. This I think means there will be a vibration because the joints don't share the same angle. Can this be solved by a double cardan joint at the top ? Or will I have to abandon universal joints and go back to a constant velocity joints ? Thanks
@@Ben-Dixey youve made me dig through books doubting myself now... so, a cardan joint is just a universal joint... and whilst i swear ive seen a double "coaxial" type in use somewhere... the more i think, the more i doubt... but... i was reminded of something else... the thomson coupling. uni joint with a funky parallelogram linkage inside to constrain the spider. it may be what i thought i saw? from what i can see , shouldnt be too much trouble to modify what you so lovingly crafted already... be a shame to scrap it. (dont you hate that?) and then... its only a few degrees of tilt... and its before the belt drive, correct? with a fairly high redux? 3 degrees of tilt isnt a huge amount... may just be able to get away with it, or use a cushdrive in there... thinking of old shaft drive bikes, that use a single uni-joint without major dramas... you got this far, maybe just see it through before making big decisions..
@@paradiselost9946 thanks for your time in responding, a double cardan joint is what I was suggesting on the top joint, it then becomes a constant velocity joint I think. So single universal or cardan joint on the bottom and a double on the top. As you say the small articulation angles maybe not result in significant rotational changes in velocity anyway. I had forgotten about the Thomson joint, will look into that option. 👍
Cool vid! Being a surveyor, I am inclined to ask if your angles (other than for parallel) are as carefully measured as thicknesses and seperation distances?
@@Ben-Dixey yes, was wondering if those were tight, or if it mattered (or course all things matter) being centered on the shaft axis. It seems the CG has to be rather dynamic in your design, so was wondering where the angles came into it. Keep reaching for the stars!
You are making good progress I must admit to a couple of worries first the press fit of the one way bearing will it not stand a chance of rotating in the hole under torque or have you taken that into account secondly the sliding shaft I think will be prone to the round pins denting the slots when going from drive to freewheel and may cause a notchy slide way causing it to stick I have seen something similar but they used a rectangular carrier that fitted in a larger slot and the pin was a press fit in a hole in the middle of it to spread the load hopefully my fears are unfounded but as you asked
Hello and thanks for the comment, could you explain a bit further the concern with the press fitted one way bearings? I haven't quite understood what you are predicting will fail. The concern of the pins and contact area I can understand. There will be needle rollers on the end of the pins but it's still a round surface contacting a flat surface. Line contact which is high pressure, any kind of impact could cause an indent. I think hardened bearing guides could solve this problem if it appears.
Hi Ben my concern is that the outer case of the bearing is a press fit so when you apply torque to it as the motor drives the blades it could rotate in it's housing as it is only the friction of the press fit stopping the rotation on a normal bearing no rotation torque load would happen but in this case you are driving the whole power transmission system relying on that press fit not to spin I do realise that the rollers will exert a force out but will that be transmitted through the case to the housing to increase the friction
@@jasondraper3838 Ah ok. In part 3 I tested one of the one way bearings to 55lbs/ft and no slippage was evident. The engine produces a maximum of 55lbs/ft constant torque. There will be spikes to that torque admittedly my estimate is 100lbs/ft would be a maximum spike. There are 5 one way bearings installed. The only thing to my mind that could cause slippage would be heat in the pulley, aluminium expanding at a greater rate than steel. I'm hoping the small amount of heat in the pulley won't be sufficient to cause a problem. However I have no experience with these one way needle roller bearings and there might be a problem that I'm unaware of.
I've used M4 cap head bolts into aluminium on an E-Trike project and they were less than satisfactory. Risk of over-tightening stripping the threads and general vibration of steel bolts against aluminium caused thread degradation.
@@TonyGoacher it's not ideal I agree. I think it will depend on the load each screw has to withstand. A courser thread I think is better than standard metric.
Thanks for the update Ben, some impressive engineering going on there ! Your followers are uplifted to see that😋 work on the chopper continues. Good decision to drop that square aluminium shaft, many of us on the side-lines were uneasy about that idea.
@@raylawrence1 Thanks for the lovely comment Ray, I look up to you with your massive experience and knowledge.
Please keep the video's rolling. Excellent work and progress
Thanks very much for the support, I enjoy making the videos. 👍👌
Glad to see you working on helicopters again.
Persistence is key!
Thank you, love working on the helicopter. 😊😊
Oh snap!!!!! We've acquired a Hoover-way to go! Congratulations!
I enjoy seeing you identify problems and finding solutions. Have tea and a biscuit on me.
wow , the skill of you working on machine shaft , its a joy to create every bit of your flying machine .
great Ben great .
Always a kind and supporting comment from you. Much appreciated 😊
Well done Ben - This takes me right back to my apprentice days !!
This sliding torsion joint does feel like a better engineered solution, Ben. What you really want is a way of testing it in situ, with strip down and inspection, to build up some confidence.
I never cease to be impressed at what goes on at the Devonshire BADGER works...
@@martingarrish4082 Sounds good to me Martin, I can test it in situ, no problem, anchored to the trailer like I did in the beginning.
I must remember to use to code name, it's very funny. 😆👍
Wow - some amazing engineering going on with this project Ben - I'm in awe - literally - jesus.................. I have problems charging a battery!
😀 thanks Tyger, much appreciated comment. I enjoy the engineering, unfortunately the part I made I might not use 🙄 found a potential issue that means it isn't ideal. Looking into other options at the moment but I'm learning things I didn't know in the process.
@@Ben-Dixey well I'm looking forward to your next video pal and seeing what that solution is!! Exciting times indeed.
Awesome video some cool machining footage! That new driveshaft idea looks cool but time consuming to make
@@DktheWelder Thank you. Yes, absolutely it will take a long time to make. The helicopter though is all a bit like that, tons of machining and all of it needs to be as accurate as you can. Mental project really, when you make one you will know all about it. 😉
@@Ben-Dixey haha I do think about it a lot!
Good to see more improvement on your project
Am also still working on my helicopter ❤
@@OYEUAV how are you getting on ?
@@Ben-Dixey getting on with the rotor head I had some problems with the gears .
I used two stage gearbox for speed reduction, with engine rpm of 12000 I needed an output of 1000 to 1200 rpms so I designed a gearbox for such purpose.. First I used an angle grinder gearbox head for the first stage bringing the speed to 3428 rpms and multiple the torque which then fed into the second gearbox of another angle grinder gearbox and then final output of 1079 rpms) my helicopter weigh 13 KGS and the engine was an oleo mac gsh 51 chainsaw with 3hp
My problem came as the final stage gearbox my first test flight was a success, my second test flight was when I noticed the teeth of the gears are broken, I think the multiple torque was just too much for the gears resulting in stress and then the failure. So working on how to get a stronger and better gears for the project. Any ideas
@@OYEUAV That's a shame about the gears, what wattage angle grinder was it that you used the gearbox from? It's the multiplication of torque that's the problem. As you know the torque is multiplied by the gear ratio. What torque does your engine produce ? If you know that then you can work out what torque is going through your reduction gearboxes. You will need to find a gearbox that is designed for the torque that you are putting through it.
Of course it has to be lightweight too, that's the challenge we face.
My word, SW2004, on a tiny screen, with the blue viewports, on windows 7 but with the classic look and feel. That's a blast from the past right there
I was thinking that too! I will bet it's more stable than my current 2023!
probably better than fusion 360 with constant updates
@@rasmAn2 it's been very good for a long time but recently has been shutting down when I rotate a part or sometimes other functions, like save ! Very annoying I'll have to upgrade soon. Yeah the laptop is old too but still just about works 😆
Your shop has some excellent tools!
Love this design, much better than the old square tubing. However, I'm still not convinced by the choice of aluminium. Although the alternative I have in mind (Titanium) may be better, but extremely expensive. Also, hardened steel pins and aluminium together, will corrode like a bugger, wouldn't they? I dunno, I'm still very impressed how you just 'one day' thought, I fancy building a helicopter, and then did it. Keep it up Ben. I just love this series. Cant wait till the next episode. 🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟
@@simonwatson5299 Thanks very much for the enthusiastic comment, greatly received. 👍
I've never machined titanium but as you say boy is it expensive. One day maybe I will be machining that material.
I looked at replacing some of the bolts with titanium ones, a price for one m6 x30 bolt is £3.50!
I think the aluminium will only corrode with steel with the presence of an electrolyte, like water or salt water. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.
Continually amazed by your engineering expertise and your free can-do thinking. The way I look at these videos is that you are building a helicopter so I don’t have to - you are literally a lifesaver 😂. Also, reading the comments on your eckranoplan I want to be the first here to say “YOU NEED A GUARD ON THAT!” 😂. Keep going Ben. Great stuff.
Thanks a lot, Bob? The prop guard comments oh my, didn't expect that at all. Thanks for your common sense responses to that. I don't know why I didn't have rotor guard comments on the helicopter too, the bottom rotor is head hight, if you walked into that you wouldn't walk away. It needs a guard !!!! 😉
@@Ben-Dixey 😂😂😂
Great work and great explanation
Very nice work. Personally, I prefer my wings fixed, but you do you dude.👍
@@JFSmith-nb8hf thanks, I like both but rotary wings are definitely a bit crazy. If you were an onlooker at a pioneer of rotary wing craft I think you would condemn the idea as totally nuts. Im pretty sure that would be my opinion, it does make you think about how determined the pioneers were with no doubt endless opinions from people.
Great job 👏
Great video again Ben 😊
pretty awesome, happy landings
Solidworks 2003 ? Это все еще продолжает прекрасно работать !
Единственно что можно добавить, что расточка чистового диаметра должна была быть завершающей операцией после обдирки боковых граней.
Keep at it Ben , you'l get there in the end mate 😎😎🤘🤘
G'day Ben,
Yikes !
You sure do have a lovely workshop, and you're doing lovely things there, too ; a far cry from my day here today - Chainsaw-Carpentry by Eye, on 2nd-hand 30mm x 90mm Radiata Pine, left here by the Concretors after they finished pouring the 3 Slabs... Cobbling up the frame, to support some old Corrugated Fibreglass Roofing material - to conjure up a "Lean-To" Battery-Box up against the South Wall of the new little Toyshed.
The Electric Motorscooter needs 480 A/hr of Gel-Cells at 24 Volts to feed the 60 Volt Battery Charger....; and after shelling out for the Shed, and the Slab under it, and the paying a Builder to fight with the Shed Kit, and the Thermal Insulation to make it worth being inside the thing...
I decided that as the Bill approached $10g for 3m by 3.77 m..., a thousand dollars per square meter of floorspace was a very expensive place to locate a dozen Batteries which will squat on about 1.2 Square metres of the Floor...
Who knew an Electric Motorbike would be so complicated to wean off the Generator which has now charged the thing 50 times in 1,887 Km (!).
I was glad to hear that the telescoping Square Tubes were but a passing notion..., and the Steel-reinforced Round Aluminium Tubes sound rather better...; though I do worry about the Steel/Aluminium Interface - under the repeated transmitted hammerings of all the Engine's Power-Strokes..
I'd expect the Steel to beat the Aluminium into submission, from Concussion-Fatigue ; but that's merely a cautious "feeling"...
Most of what I do is based on Guesswork.
Whereas I'm pretty sure that you actually know what you're talking about...!
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
radiata pine? LOOOXOOREH!
lol, i had a roof of giant bamboo for a few years... that was fun to walk on, across a 6M span! especially as the borers moved in! another time, a tarp draped over some steel cables on "a-frames"... aka, old steel pallets bolted to shipping containers...
another lil "temporary" shed with old advertising sign/coreflute roofing "shingles" zip tied together. the last section still stands and is still waterproof! near four years of constant rain tested it out... and delayed other things...
like actually rivetting my current "shed" together, lol... kit? cheapest option was to just buy folded steel c-sections. lol... and had the tin held down with two ratchet straps for the last four years... finally screwed it down the other day... did i mention i havent rivetted the frame together? it has about five tek screws, and so far, its seen some near cyclonic storms, too!
sigh... never ending projects, and shoving everything into a shipping container to get the slab poured really didnt do much for "organisation"... but i did get about 5K worth of concrete alone for 1K... mates rates :) plus some labourers, helicopter finish, and reo.... closer to 25K as an actual paid job?
do a bit here, do a bit there, and try not going insane with the double, treble, dodeca-druple moving of stuff... meh, at least its sort of stopped raining?
australia... supposed to be hot and dry, instead its apparently extremely cold and wet.
@@paradiselost9946
Yeah, it's all a bit like that.
I'm still living in the Lawn Locker I put together here in 1991...insulated with 25mm of Foam, with a double layer of insulated Roofing riveted over the original. The Wrap-around Verandah with Deck on 3 sides helps, and the miniature Pot-Belly gets too hot - so a Thermosyphon-driven Heat-Exchanger draws cold Air from floor-level in the Sleep-out Bunkroom, & feeds it through a hollow Horseshoe-shaped "Hearth", to pump away the excess and dump the hot air into the Bunkroom.
So, it's a Lawn Locker with delusions of adequacy...; and I was assuming that the 2023 Flatpack would be at least as good as the 1990 unit - but 35 years of Production Engineering has REALLY de-evolved the species.
The Pine arrived pre-treated, and I'm painting it with Mould-Inhibited Linseed Oil, and it's all resting on, but not in, Concrete...; and the Brick Pallets my Deck is built on have lasted 34 years - while I'm 63, so the Pine-framed Battery-Box should outlast me (!).
The Antarctic Circum-Polar Jetstream is breaking down, like the Arctic has been doing for a decade, apparently - firing blasts of cold Air out along the Meridians..., as if Gaia is desperately trying to "spread the Cool".
Greenland's Ice Cap and West Antarctica's Thwaites Glacier are both barely being restrained by thinning Ice-Sheets, Greenland is covered with Soot melting Pools on the top of the ice, pouring Sun-warmed Water into Cracks to lubricate the underlying Bedrock..., whereas Thwaites has a Volcano under it to boil the Interface.
Each one is good for 6 metres of Sea-Level Rise, and the first one to go will fracture the Ice-Sheet of the other - triggering it to follow.
And apparently the upshot is that my $17,000 Firehose Collection might get to go another Season before I need to face-off against the next Firestorm...
I claim to have the best-protected Lawn Locker in the worst Bushfire Fuelbomb in the 2370 Postcode !
8 Billion selfish Fcukwits keep on voting to "Pursue Prosperity by growing the EcoGnomie - REGARDLESS of any alleged Fears of Environmental Damage or Consequences, as expressed by the so-called "Scientific Community" and other assorted Protesters - Malcontents who would seek to stand in the face of Progress...!"
Or, words to that effect.
Which may be why I have not worked in their EcoGnomie, not paid any Taxes on the Income I haven't earned, since 1986.
Bugger them, with a Barbed-wire Dildo - they VOTED for all this Shit.
I hope they fully appreciate it when their Infinitely Fractal Karma completely envelopes their entire existence....
Such has been their
Selfish
Choice....
And, meanwhile, you and I and others of our ilk get to play the most imaginative Game of Titanic Deckchairs which we can contrive so to do...
And, when they who work to pay Taxes to fund their Paranoid Militarized Persecution Fantasies successfully (Suck Cess Fully...) turn each other's DNA into Compost ; we the Preppers get to compete with each other to be the longest-lasting
Observers of
The FOLLIES, left upon the
Smoking ruined bare bald overcooked Desertified remains of what used to be a delightful sort of a Planet on which to live.
12,300 years of the Broadacre Death Kult of Harvest Everything-ism...; and WE get to be alive to watch the Finale...;
By Jove..., What Luck, Olde Bean,
Who'd 've thunk it...?!?!
Thermonukeyoulater Waaauughhh(!) was really easy to prepare to outlive - to the point where until the USSR folded up and quit..., NATO & the WarPact appeared to be the SOLUTION to Anthropogenic Global Warming - by destroying the Global Industrial-scale Fossil-fuelled EcoGnomie...
But they squibbed it.
And then concentrated on
Growing the (Sacred)
EcoGnomie...;
As if
Nothing else on Earth
Mattered.
Somebody will probably manage to survive to breed, but my kids are 34 & 35, and neither has gone broody yet - so I'm pretty much paying Council Rates on a hundred Acres which I've run as an Endangered Species Sanctuary on an old Didgeridoo Factory (the Trees grow naturally hollow, from Droughts drying their Roots in the shallow Cracks in the Basalt Traprock Ridge - while shattered and flaked Basalt furnishes the most amazingly sharp Stone Woodworking Tools.
Preserving a struggling Remnant of the Ecology which used to be here, before the first Sheep showed up in about 1840.
It seems to make better sense than driving around the country busking Environmentalist Poetry, and telling Sheep-War Massacre Stories - which I spent about 5 years doing (burning 500 litres/year and emitting 1.25 tons of CO-2 annually while so engaged) - while the 8 Billion ignored me totally..., and concentrated on competing to trash the Planet ever faster than their neighbours.
My Primary School must've been more effective than most. I remember when
"The Tragedy Of The Commons" was published in 1968..., I was 7 years old, and in 3rd Class we spent an entire day having it explained to us.
And I assumed that everybody else my age was being informed and educated equally well, at the time ; so it's been 56 years of observing the 3.1 Billion become 8 Billion, and apparently my Class of 7 year-olds was the only one on Earth to have received the 1968
Briefing on what was going
Wrong...(?) !
If you're into it...(?), I have 23 Playlists on the Channel - 8 being Wildlife Encounters, sorted by Species, and the Poetry is stashed in the "Warbles In The Wilderness..." Playlist ; with one Scroll devoted to "Mad Scientist Videos..." and another one for "Personal Aeroplanology...".
12 species of local Native Wildlife treat me as being their Family's pet Tame Human...; so my output might be made on a Potato-grade Phone-Camera, but the material is pretty unusual...
Such is life,
Have a good one.....
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Great work as usual!
Great to see the update and impressive work.
PS. You need a bit more practice on the TOT finger snap!
@@ptonpc More practise, yes 😆👍
Nice! I`ll have to catch up with you stuff... Haven`t been watching you for a while... I`ve had my own shit to deal with, and hell if i don`t got more on my hands - truckloads, but i`ll have to check out what have you been doin` as my stuff seems to be stuck in place, so what the hell - might as well...
As for the drive shaft, Volvo used telescopic shafts as wheel drive shafts in, i believe, the XC90 (or something similar, not sure anymore), as a replacement for cv joints. it would be about the right size for your application, both in torque and size. trying to engineer something like that in the shed might be a bit of a challenge
Hi, the Volvo ball spline driveshafts are definitely an option, I would have to make my own lightweight version as the volvo shafts are way over engineered for my purpose but it's doable. You can buy ball splines from Thomson linear at a much more suitable size but they are £600.
You have reminded me to have another look at making my own ball spline like the Volvo one, could be a better option. 👍
@@Ben-Dixey The drive shafts of a PAL-V (don't know if you ever heard of those) are a lightweight version of the Volvo ones, and while they might look simple the grooves for the balls are not simply circular in cross section, they are kind of two intersecting egg shapes iirc. The tolerances and surface treatments on them are also not for the faint of heart. If you're serious about making your own I might be able to sneak a peak at the drawing detail for it
@@rasmAn2 I hadn't heard of the Pal-V, flying car! At first glance it looks promising. I'll have a think about the option before taking up any of your time, thanks for the offer to look up some drawings.
Interesting that the grooves are egg shaped, Hardening would certainly be necessary for a vehicle shaft applying around 2000-4000 lbs/ft of torque and for 1000's of miles but mine is only 55lbs/ft at engine max continuous power. Quite different requirements, so maybe hardening wouldn't be necessary. But the joint certainly would have to be made of steel.
Do you work in the driveshaft industry? Or for Volvo ?
@@Ben-Dixey The main failure mode of ball spline shafts is not so much straight torque, but false brinelling due to oscillations in the applied torque, hardening helps a lot with that. Given that yours is a direct drive, given that yours is a 2cyl 2stroke, you have (correct me if wrong) a power stroke every 180ish degrees. The rotors are effectively a very large damper/flywheel combo, but a lot more flywheel than damper. I'd say considering the load in the shaft as +-75Nm LL is a reasonable start. This is why the egg-shape is quite vital there, to prevent the balls hammering from one side to another, and to provide a quasi-line contact instead of a point. flushing the grease often is going to help as well.
Given that we are only looking at a relatively low torque, I wonder if the wizards at IGUS or Trelleborg have anything that might work. maybe not out of the box but they supply their magic slidy stuff as bar stock as well.
I worked at PAL-V for 12 years, I've come to know a thing or two about constructing lightweight slightly impossible mechanisms:) Currently helping a marine diesel engine company get off the ground, so while still connected to the aviators, not on a daily basis anymore.
@@rasmAn2 Well it's great to have someone with your experience commenting, pretty cool.
I found some igus linear rails some that can handle some torque, I'll find out more. 👍
nice to see you finish the project instead off abandon it.
Would it be a option just using agriculture drive shafts from a PTO.?
You will buy them with a free runner and a flat conection plate.
they are heavy only good enough testing your rig and go from there>
@@ronald3148 👍 For testing, sure, as you say it's heavy so it could only be used for that but a lighter version could be made. The issue I was worried about is the friction in the plunging joint, it needs to be very freely moving. A joint that can move via bearings I think is a necessity. The PTO joints I've seen use a telescopic square drive and grease to reduce friction. I don't know how much friction is in that design to be fair but I would imagine it's too high.
A spline is too high friction from my beach tests.
Hi Ben, are you planning on using a conventional coaxial helicopter control mechanism instead of the current one if it is unstable?
Hi, no plans to change the control mechanism at the moment, I would just like it useable again as the first priority. However I do have future plans to add collective pitch for example.
😃👍👍👍👍
You should modify that chuck, as a set tru chuck. For milling, you should try a roughing end mill, it removes way more material with less load. That carbide tool removes so little(I have it and never use it). How did you make the outer radiuses?
Hi, I hadn't heard of a set tru Chuck, would certainly be nice to have. Will look at prices. Great shout on the roughing milling cutter, I've not really used them but I have a few, didn't realise they were so much quicker, will try it. The outer radiuses were just done using the DRO radius function. It's gives you two coordinates to move to in X and Y and then you plunge in Z. It takes a little time but not too bad.
Thanks for the tips 👍
@@Ben-Dixey I have the radius function, but never tried it. next project I will try, thanks for the tip. You can modify your existing chuck, by machining down a bit on the mounting flange of the lathe spindle, drill and tap 4 threads in the chuck body(12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions), install 4 set/grub screws. These will align the chuck to be true.
@@19mati67 sounds good, I'll have a look at that option, be good to dial it in perfect.
experience of centrifugal clutches? they do NOT LET OFF as long as they are rotating at engagement speed. no matter how theyre designed, as long as they are rotating, those shoes are engaged. yeah, it nearly cost me my front teeth on one certain homebuilt motorbike years ago... was NOT expecting the compression braking to be so powerful!
the clutch from a honda C90 etc, theyre a sort of semi centrifugal, semi manual clutch but not sure how you would get one in there. they do disengage when you press the shift lever. (yes, they can be clutch-started!)
the best one way clutch is the sprag clutch from an automatic transmission. seen far too many "needle clutches" fail to trust them. whereas sprags "lock on" regardless, as they dont use rollers, rather, little "plates" or "dogbones".
good idea to drop the linear needle bearings... i may have mentioned this on another video, but the "cannondale headshox" use the same design and suffer "bearing creep", they have to be dismantled occasionally and have them pushed back where they belong... and my opinion from way back is that only ONE of those needles on each face will actually take the majority of load. seems you have now taken the path similar to what i sort of described earlier :) slots and pins...
regards uni joints... you need a pair of them or you get nasty harmonics from nonconstant velocity as the angle changes.... you can make them "inside each other" though. a "cardan joint".
either that or a proper CV joint... otherwise "something" has to absorb the variations in speed through every 1/4 rotation...
lol, 2:50... i blame the "southpaw click".
@@paradiselost9946 Great comment as always.
Wouldn't a "centrifugal clutch" release if the primary way it drives is through leverage rather than the centrifugal force? The Bensen B9 clutch in the video seems to be less about centrifugal weight creating friction but more about the points at which the friction shoes are levered against drum. Therefore I would expect it to release, no doubt with some friction still present due to what centrifugal force is present. Would you agree ?
I hadn't seen the example of the bicycle forks using flat cage rollers, interesting.
I haven't got any experience in using the needle roller clutch bearings so I guess we will have to see if they fail or not but there are 5 of them when one can handle the max engine torque. Sprag clutches are no doubt stronger.
I had forgotten you mentioned slots and pins, but I suppose thats how the brain works, ideas get thought of but you can't always remember where it came from. 🙂
There will be two universal joints to balance the speed variations.
Southpaw click was to blame 😆
@@paradiselost9946 I've been thinking about your comment on the two universal joints.
My plan was to have a universal joint just above the clutch and a universal Joint at the top. This I thought would be ok as it's just like a prop shaft on a car but actually it's occurred to me that it might not.
With the head tilted fully to the side the top universal joint will have a 3 degree tilt but the bottom won't change angle. This I think means there will be a vibration because the joints don't share the same angle.
Can this be solved by a double cardan joint at the top ? Or will I have to abandon universal joints and go back to a constant velocity joints ?
Thanks
@@Ben-Dixey youve made me dig through books doubting myself now...
so, a cardan joint is just a universal joint...
and whilst i swear ive seen a double "coaxial" type in use somewhere... the more i think, the more i doubt...
but... i was reminded of something else... the thomson coupling.
uni joint with a funky parallelogram linkage inside to constrain the spider. it may be what i thought i saw?
from what i can see , shouldnt be too much trouble to modify what you so lovingly crafted already... be a shame to scrap it. (dont you hate that?)
and then... its only a few degrees of tilt... and its before the belt drive, correct? with a fairly high redux? 3 degrees of tilt isnt a huge amount...
may just be able to get away with it, or use a cushdrive in there... thinking of old shaft drive bikes, that use a single uni-joint without major dramas...
you got this far, maybe just see it through before making big decisions..
@@paradiselost9946 thanks for your time in responding, a double cardan joint is what I was suggesting on the top joint, it then becomes a constant velocity joint I think.
So single universal or cardan joint on the bottom and a double on the top.
As you say the small articulation angles maybe not result in significant rotational changes in velocity anyway.
I had forgotten about the Thomson joint, will look into that option. 👍
Cool vid! Being a surveyor, I am inclined to ask if your angles (other than for parallel) are as carefully measured as thicknesses and seperation distances?
@@gnomespace Thanks. 👍
I haven't measured any angles, are you referring to the 90 degree angle between the straight shaft and bored holes ?
@@Ben-Dixey yes, was wondering if those were tight, or if it mattered (or course all things matter) being centered on the shaft axis. It seems the CG has to be rather dynamic in your design, so was wondering where the angles came into it.
Keep reaching for the stars!
You are making good progress I must admit to a couple of worries first the press fit of the one way bearing will it not stand a chance of rotating in the hole under torque or have you taken that into account secondly the sliding shaft I think will be prone to the round pins denting the slots when going from drive to freewheel and may cause a notchy slide way causing it to stick I have seen something similar but they used a rectangular carrier that fitted in a larger slot and the pin was a press fit in a hole in the middle of it to spread the load hopefully my fears are unfounded but as you asked
Hello and thanks for the comment, could you explain a bit further the concern with the press fitted one way bearings? I haven't quite understood what you are predicting will fail.
The concern of the pins and contact area I can understand. There will be needle rollers on the end of the pins but it's still a round surface contacting a flat surface. Line contact which is high pressure, any kind of impact could cause an indent. I think hardened bearing guides could solve this problem if it appears.
Hi Ben my concern is that the outer case of the bearing is a press fit so when you apply torque to it as the motor drives the blades it could rotate in it's housing as it is only the friction of the press fit stopping the rotation on a normal bearing no rotation torque load would happen but in this case you are driving the whole power transmission system relying on that press fit not to spin I do realise that the rollers will exert a force out but will that be transmitted through the case to the housing to increase the friction
@@jasondraper3838 Ah ok. In part 3 I tested one of the one way bearings to 55lbs/ft and no slippage was evident. The engine produces a maximum of 55lbs/ft constant torque. There will be spikes to that torque admittedly my estimate is 100lbs/ft would be a maximum spike. There are 5 one way bearings installed. The only thing to my mind that could cause slippage would be heat in the pulley, aluminium expanding at a greater rate than steel. I'm hoping the small amount of heat in the pulley won't be sufficient to cause a problem. However I have no experience with these one way needle roller bearings and there might be a problem that I'm unaware of.
@@Ben-Dixey sounds like you have already sorted it well done 👍
Do you have a four jaw chuck.
I do, I've only got hard jaws for it though. Can you get soft jaws for a four jaw ?
@@Ben-DixeyI used to use bits of lead flashing to wrap the jaw and protect the work. Much better off using the four jaw for accuracy and truth.
@@normanboyes4983 👍
@@Ben-Dixey I have been a machinist for 50 years and I use 1mm strips of aluminum. If required,
I've used M4 cap head bolts into aluminium on an E-Trike project and they were less than satisfactory. Risk of over-tightening stripping the threads and general vibration of steel bolts against aluminium caused thread degradation.
@@TonyGoacher it's not ideal I agree. I think it will depend on the load each screw has to withstand. A courser thread I think is better than standard metric.
Igor Sikorsky and Ben Dixey.😎
Thanks
Thank you so much for that, very kind of you. 😊
it'll never fly
😘