Conversations With History - Tariq Ali
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- "Pakistan"
Tariq Ali, Editor, New Left Review
Host Harry Kreisler welcomes writer and journalist Tariq Ali for a discussion of Pakistan and it relations with the United States. He places the present crisis in its historical context exploring the origins of the Pakistani state, the failure to forge a national identity, the inability and unwillingness of Pakistani leaders to address the country's poverty and inequality, and the role of the military in the country's spiral toward violence and disunity. In this context, Tariq Ali highlights the significance of the U.S. relationship throughout Pakistan's history and he analyzes current US policy and it implications for stability in the region.
Recorded September 26, 2008
globetrotter.berkeley.edu/iis/...
globetrotter.berkeley.edu/conv...
Great man and tell the truth that all Pakistanis must see and learned from him.
A great way to spend an hour. Thank you very much for posting.
Highly recommend the interview, it briefly explains the overall afghan situation of late 2008 very well. Thank you.
When the British got slaughtered in Afghanistan in the 19th century, which jihadi madrassahs were responsible?
Great video. This answers most of the questions one may have about the state of affairs of where Pakistan is today.
Thats the best commentary I have ever heard, well balanced and array of selected and appropriate words.
Excellent interview. Thanks for the upload.
Tariq always hits a homerun with his analysis. He's probably the only person I've seen decisively defeat Christopher Hitchens in a debate.
Harry and Tariq, two outstanding men in their different ways
wonderful english Tariq Ali
Read his books you ll be astonished .
Why@@sophiesworld369
Interesting Tariq Ali at 10:59 says that Z.A.Bhutto was dumped on Kissinger's orders!
+Sridhar Kaushik Yeah but i think that is conspiracy theory..... but most of the Pakistani says he was killed by U.S for initiating Nuclear programme... God knows the truth....
@@ABhattacharya
Bhatta You feel the same after more than a decade . Last few mins of his interview sound prophetic if we see in present day’s world.
Thanks Tariq! i would like to add there is a very good documentary "The Day India Burned" speaking about the partition of India, its very informative & will shed light on this subject!
Scholars and artists have been "shedding light" on injustice for millenia, but almost nothing changes.
It is rather interesting to see how opinions of academics and journalists are at different analytic levels. Ali is a journalist.
terrific !!
Correct! Thank you.
Nicely said facts. Persuades me to read the book.
i liked this interview.
Came back again, just to hear the retro intro music!
Tariq Ali is brilliant in his analysis as Historian brings out Interesting true facts.
As a Hindu from India whose forefather had to face severe catastrophic consequences of this geo play by larger players like USA , Britain to counter USSR ..leading to radicalization of moderate Islam .. I have no doubt that this monster of radicalization is going to bite back ..I see a world where Indian subcontinent will unite under indian culture aside religion and Asia unifying to counter USA terminally
13:54 "large landowners" by about three decades ago, the nation's resources, and largest parts of land, was properties of Punjab and pak military which is predominantly Punjabi.
thanks
Muslim league lost heavily the 1937 provincial elections, not winning majority in even one state where elections were held.
(The 1937 election was the first in which large masses of Indians were eligible to participate. An estimated 30.1 million persons, including 4.25 million women, had acquired the right to vote (14% of the total population), and 15.5 million of these, including 917,000 women, actually did exercise their franchise.
The results were in favour of the Indian National Congress. Of the total of 1,585 seats, it won 707 (44.6%). Among the 864 seats assigned "general" constituencies, it contested 739 and won 617. Of the 125 non-general constituencies contested by Congress, 59 were reserved for Muslims and in those the Congress won 25 seats, 15 of them in the entirely-Muslim North-West Frontier Province. The All-India Muslim League won 106 seats (6.7% of the total), placing it as second-ranking party. The only other party to win more than 5 percent of all the assembly seats was the Unionist Party (Punjab), with 101 seats....
The final results of the elections were declared in February 1937. The Indian National Congress emerged in power in eight of the provinces - the three exceptions being Bengal, Punjab, and Sindh. The All-India Muslim League failed to form the government in any province.....
The Sind Legislative Assembly had 60 members. The Sind United Party emerged the leader with 22 seats, and the Congress secured 8 seats. Mohammad Ali Jinnah had tried to set up a League Parliamentary Board in Sindh in 1936, but he failed, though 72% of the population was Muslim.[2] Though 34 seats were reserved for Muslims, the Muslim League could secure none of them...
The Unionist Party under Sikander Hyat Khan formed the government in Punjab with 67 out of 175 seats. The Congress won 18 seats and the Akali Dal, 10.[9] In Bengal, though the Congress was the largest party (with 52 seats), The Krishak Praja Party of A. K. Fazlul Huq (with 36 seats) was able to form a coalition government.)
All in all a big blow to Muslim League. Remember, there was a separate electorate, which meant muslims can vote only for muslim candidate.
Then came the second world war and India joined the war efforts. As narrated by Tariq Ali here, Congress boycotted and went for "Quit India" movement while Muslim League's ever faithful anglophile Jinnah literally licked Englishman's rear end for favors.
Favors he got in plenty. He was able to consolidate his power and influence among muslims while all congress leaders including Gandhiji were thrown into jail. M.J.Akbar, the eminent Indian journalist asks an interesting question: what does a good lawyer do when he loses a case? He changes the narrative.
As per M.J. Akbar, Jinnah changed the narrative from "muslims in trouble" to "Islam in trouble". He went about saying that in a united India, muslims will not be able to go to a mosque, say prayers etc etc. This made him a kind of messiah among muslims. Result was: Muslim league won almost all the muslim seats in the 1946, proving thereby its hold on the north indian muslims. This inevitably led to partition of India.
One may debate if it was good or bad. Maulana Azad bemoaned the partition calling it a great tragedy for the muslims of the subcontinent. Muslims today are divided into 3 countries. In Pakistan, they have been mostly under dictators. In India, they are under a democracy but they have not progressed much. A rational person would say it was a disaster.
For the hindus, it has been a blessing. Devoid of religious interference which they would have faced in case of a significant minority, hindus are able to progress much more under a secular democracy.
nice
Thank god muslims separated from India. Otherwise none of our religious laws would be given importance or protected
You've made some very interesting points in regards to 37 elections but the fact that what comes after Congress established their governments is also worth giving a thought to understand the next election in 46. Muslims in different parts of India and particularly bengal and Asaam were being murdered and humiliated and nothing was done to stop those hindu riots. And that's why the insecurity among Muslims increased in those years and 1940 Pakistan Resolution was a starting point of it when things started to change. The thing is Muslims were minority afterall and the fact that both hindus and Muslims had long history of fighting after Liberation war of 1857. Muslims were the ones who lost the most and hindus were treated fairly well bcz they pretend to be the victims of Muslim Rule as well.
Only if one connects the dots of history together, then theyll understand the situation better.
And today's India is just showing that Muslim League was right in creating a separate country.
@@mohtaramusama4992 you have stated that riots in different parts of India instigated partition of India that's TRUE but for your kind information this separatism started long ago in 1850's when sir Syed Ahmed demanded separate educational institution for muslim during intial phase when india was moving towards democratic republic, that was the root cause. Hindu community never ever demanded separate educational institution until 1910 when 'BANARAS HINDU UNIVERSITY' was demanded by madan Mohan Malviya but he never excluded muslim community from getting education from this university. I don't want to being biased hatred & envious was on both sides irrespective of volume, & it was inevitable that in coming time it will happen either earlier or later. It doesn't matter if india didn't get partitioned in 1947 it will divided in future". So there no sense in beating the bush, we should focus on future .
Great Reality...
and then there is Drunk History :D ..
Tariq Ali is one of 100's of educated and sincere pakistanis but his command of english brings him into limelight...he is just good !
well said
@DaHonestAbe Where is this available? Thank you.
wow, that interviewer guy must be one of the smartest guys in the world after talking to all these amazing guys who come on his show
eloquent speaker!
Tariqi Ali is one of the most knowlegeable writers and speakers alive. For example, did you hear how he easily and seemingly adlib, makes a literary analogy, the fawning but calculatiing with ulterior motives character Uriah Heep from Charles Dicken's "david copperfield" to that of pre dictator of Pakistan Zia Alhak entertained Butto which led to Bhutto's hanging by Zia. And as most intelligent socialists he knows the tragedy of Pakistan is because political class did nothing for Pakistanis.
Good
48:07 re general Petreus's warning, what does "behave" connote, other than "not murder any more US personnel"?
20:55 it says more about the nation and the leader than they admit even to themselves - that the nation is about hero worship of conquistador and denigration of the defeated, noit about a hearty bond between people and leaders, in fact there aren't leaders but only rulers, and as for Bhutto he called himself leader of a democratic party and declared he wanted a socialist republic but really aspired to be prince, so when he fell people weren't going to come to rescue at risk of life against military!
14:42 "mush's first PM was a Citibank employee"!!! Tells much!
honestly it is realy educational. I like to see and hear both side of the issue, but in the end it all boils down to Mr tariq's own personal view and the picture of pakistan which i respect but don't agree with. Again I highly recommand everybody to listen to people like him who atleast have understanding of the past, present and are willing to shape up the future.
43:34 Negatives heaped on a leader of a nation whom pak did not control; he could be in reality all of that and get away with it, and accolades, if he appeased pak! His crime, wanting Afghanistan independent of pak control! Then again, he was more fortunate - his predecessor Ahmed Shah Masoud, Lion of Panjshir valley, was assassinated days before WTC attacks, as he had himself warned US would happen! His crime, not being controlled by pak, so pak had put Hekmatyar in Afghanistan, with whom Afghan people were really in worst state they suffered until then.
9:00 true, "pak was always a state never a nation", for the same reason a tourniqueted limb is a living organism noit a person!
Right?
21:47 and heirlooms they are, passed from would be prince to daughter to the son being groomed to take over!
2:55 true enough; although he forgets the starvation of millions in Bengal due to British taking away the harvest, but then why would he or his ilk care, as long as their landlord or nawab status kept them in luxury anyway, and they got a huge chunk of India where they could massacre and throw out Hindus, as launch platform for taking over all of India to repeat that all over? Leaders in pak have been promising this for decades since partition, and demand for Kashmir is just the first cut they have been chipping away at!
You should make him your president/prime minister what ever it is you all follow now.He has a great deal of understanding,will change Pakistan and Indo-Pak relations as well.
@zolfigar
I'm presuming thats a compliment
Anyway, would be glad if you could name some French dissidents a la Tariq Ali.
9:07 India is the nation or the Motherland from which pak was broken or carved, not "giant neighbour"! A limb is naturally smaller than the body!
And the interview of Mr Tariq Ali is also showing that Pakistanis have guts to talk
I have never seen any Indian Intellectual
once again tariq ali blows my mind. if i could i'd vote for this guy to run Pakistan (I haven't even been to the country)!
43:54 "Afghanistan is like the Titanic, we've hit the glacier " - not expected from someone seemingly so erudite!
abuse as much you can.
but you are not a slave.
you are a divine light.
13:16 "60% of children born in pak are born stunted" even apart from malnutrition and poor state of women's health and lives in general, perhaps too much inbreeding might have something to do with it, marrying first cousins being forced on children in arranged marriages in Muslim community?
Tariq tell us now what should be done in Pakistan?
@xulphicar yes sure. gentleman u r quite right, if u r ready to grant rights of self determination to baluchistan, nwfp, fata, etc.
Ali gave Hitchens a pretty good run for his money twice in a debate. I think he may have won both of them.
@Bastiat90 They also didn't do it because the goverment did not tell them to.
17:35 "party that created the country degenerate into clutch of gangs, fighting for power, ..." - so, fracture into more than one such gang was the new part, but essential character was intact!
nice drink
if you created evil to fight for you , once will back to fight with your
I heard and read the comments. It surprised me that they all are talking about India as if she is providing something new to the world. We all keep on forgetting that India was once ruled by Afghans, Iranians, Turks and before all of them Arabs. Not only for 100 years but 1000 years. Yes we are loosing at this particular point but not cause of India. India switchs her loyality as quickly as a prisitute changes her customers. The whole world is against islam but we will survive, insha Allah
13 years lapsed and things in pakistan are still the same.
The intro song is ancient. Heheh...
As long as the USA continues to intervene the world over there will be accusations levelled at it, whether justified or not.
Before slinging mud at another country think about your own. How much of the US national wealth do 1% of population own? When was the last time you felt you wholeheartedly supported most of US president's domestic policies?
And I can assure you that you will get a longer line in the USA than you will in Pakistan, with its rampant individualism, consumerism and greed.
48:19 Tariq Ali is sanctimonious about pronouncements re "if US decides to enter pak territory, violate its sovereignty, totally against UN charter" never mind how often over decades pak did precisely that with its neighbours, apart from terror attacks on other nations perpetrated by terrorists trained and inculcated with motivation in pak! Hadley, apart from various UK pak origin citizens, just off hand!
Funny how Indians got triggered by anything related to Pakistan. They try to portray their side of government as "doodh ki dhula" and innocent who did nothing wrong against Pakistan since independence. I pity on such thinking.
46:33!
you are right, but that wasn't pre-planned. rather, it is happening because of utter inability on part of afghan forces to keep taliban at bay, and more importantly, provide security for afghan women [at least those living in kabul] who have suffered enough.
35:42 "initially US was reluctant to give military aid (to pak)" noit true, according to a respectable pak persona on record; US asked India and pak, each of whose PM visited soon post independence, how US could help, and pak askjed foir military equipment for every branch and was given! Nehru asked help setting up institutions for education, science research, technology, and healthcare - and got help in those areas!
Rightly so bcz both countries ask for what there respective needs were at time. Pak didn't have the military strength against India at that time and defence is always the first priority of any country who have as big a neighbor as India.
Just a different perspective and may help understand the situation better
India's loss of losing it's Muslim intelligentsia is incalculable.
It's Ismaili, Bohra, Ahmediyya, Parsi, Sikh, Afghan, Baloch, Punjab, Sindh, Jew, Christian, Kashmiri and Jat trade & allied communities were India's 'Silk Rd. Connection' to the rest of Asia.
Of course the oil & gas boom of the rest of the Middle-East, Eastern Europe and Silk Rd. countries of Central Asia was not forseen back in the times, otherwise India would be entrenched in said areas whcih is it's natural backfround.
36:40 - 39:40 interesting! Of course, the last bit about what pak military knew at the time of this talk is niow knoiwn to be opposite of what Tariq Ali states, but then he wasn't ISI, was he?
the intro sounds like it came from a nes game.
Same old story: keep the poor exhausted, uneducated, hungry, and distracted so they can never rise up. Same plot in different nations. Having said this, I laugh at historians discussing "stability" "security" and "progress".
i would simply say........."what a s.o.b"...
Wonder if this anchor would be happy bandying about strategic depth if Canada was overrun by USSR in the name of that need, or Italy by Libya, or Turkey by Egypt?
32:00 "this was the only victory the pak army has won in its entire existence" speaking of Taliban taking Kabul; except, it was not official military, it was usual pretense of "tribal rebels" that was this time not pretense!
48:52 - 50:45 first the nuke threat re their falling into terrorists' hands, and justification of pak military as those who wouldn't allow it (as if the two were separate); then the appeal about pak falling apart if deranged via nukes being taken out - is there nothing holding it together other than threatening India and controlling Afghanistan?
Funny how you bringing India in ever comment like grow up a little. Threatening India? A country 7 times bigger than it's neighbor. I would call nukes a strong self defense against a Nuclear Armed Neighbor.
36:40 "head of ISI happens to be in Washington, breakfasting with congressman, on that day, 911 when suddenly ..." Interesting?
good discussion, but they chose not to stir up a huge hornet's nest -- Kashmir!!!
If this man was a Pakistani-American I would vote for him and his democratic socialist party into government. Since he is a citizen of Great Britain he would be an excellent choice to counter the corrupt Labor and Tories and Lib Dems. I think he could form a coalition of socialist labor(Milliband head of the Labor party calls him a socialist) with the large disenfranchised electorate in the UK.
Nepal, Butan, verma is also poor county but law and order situation is far better than pakistan and bagala dehs ............u know the reson.
OH SNAP
I am glad there are left wing writers and thinkers like Tariq questioning invasive capitalistic and arrogant atitudes.
Pakistan has energy to provide? There have been 18 hour powercuts in Pak.
Trying to be Edward the Longshanks?
32:09 "and it (pak military) immediately began to boast of having achieved strategic depth vis a vis India, which is foolish" this overused phrase seems to mean what China uses foir policy, which is, position military a thousand miles outside national borders to protect the nation, I.e., claim more and more territories and buldoze your way through, massacring locals and claiming you liberated them!
somebody please send me a message: how do you search for your own comments without going through the whole comments list? I would be most grateful. I am really suffering from more than an emotional illness right now, and having a hard time even thinking. again would be eternally grateful for that and maybe how to bookmark your own comment so you could reply to a reply...whatever...yeah i am really rambling, i'll stop for your and my sake both.
33:40 Tariq Ali has brought up unraveling of pak control of Afghanistan post WTC attacks, but anchor isn't happy, because that is when US policy and thinking had to be turned 180 degrees, after all the pet wolf had attacked the master's babies, being confident after feasting on poor ones far away! So discussing the moment of "uh, oh, that was a stupid mistake!" isn't a hurry!
44:00 - 45:08 "NATO wants to keep it for military bases, the region being strategic, bordering China and Iran and Central Asia, but there is a problem, and the problem is, the people of that region don't want it"! The region he talks about is Afghanistan, a nation, convenient to reduce to " region" so pak control seems less like aggression, theft, land grab?
A secular world is a sane world
the solution he cited : get India, Pakistan, Russia, Iran to set up a socialist government in Afghanistan. i dont see that happening in a 100 years the way things are.
Well, the misnomer is that India got divided. Sindh was NEVER a part of the naion state of historical India.
Many people and issues are responsible for the Partition of Punjub and Bengal but the bottom line was that Muslims were discriminated. Muslims elites worried that they would lose out in the new India. They were probably right.
Watch the video "The Day Indian burned".
Still, I wished that there was no partition.
Does he have much contact with Obama?
It's funny because Navy SEALs did go into Pakistani territory just like Tariq Ali mentioned.
@xulphicar
I'm not Indian, I just studied this stuff and determined that once again the muslims are in the wrong.
The idea of Pakistan (i.e. two nations within India 1 specifically for India's Muslims) was flawed and redundant to begin with given that millions of secular Indian Muslims didn't buy into this rightwing rhetoric and chose to remain in India, they comprise roughly 15% of India's population today and are as Indian as anyone else. Pakistan today has no raison d’etre, and thus will remain in a continual state of manufacturing differences from the ‘other’ so as keep afloat its farcical existence.
the biggest problem with this subcontinent is Gandhi, Bhutto dynasty- nepotism doesn't take you anywhere- just get rid of that mindset. You can see how the visionary genes have dissolved through the generations
@BUDA20
What about the insecular world ?
Is it really insane ?
Dark Ali?
Pakistan is not a mistake...it's a blunder!
wow, it must suck to be india - with pakistan and china on either side 0_0
Where did I say monetary gain is the prime mover of human activity? Profit motives are not exclusively money related. You're very bad at dodging the issue.
That's an absurd argument. Would you refrain from killing someone because nobody told you not to do it?
@DaHonestAbe Hah, sorry, just found it.
40:12 the anchor gets in a dig at successful integration of pak provinces!
Look at the resentment in their faces whenever Islam or jihad is mentioned. They start peeing in their pants.