The Commander Format Is Changing Rapidly

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 109

  • @edhdeckbuilding
    @edhdeckbuilding  6 днів тому +9

    i guess i should point out that i'm using xmage in this video.

    • @tiagothinks
      @tiagothinks 5 днів тому

      I was going to ask! I'll check it out. Looks neat.

  • @michaelpatalano9884
    @michaelpatalano9884 6 днів тому +88

    MTGoldfish got me back on bounce lands. I run like 5 MDFCs in every deck, so you play them as a land, and then bounce it back later in the game

    • @HalfFang
      @HalfFang 6 днів тому +7

      Early game it also garentees you have a land drop next turn. 3 lands mean you have a drop for 4 turns

    • @lexmtaylor
      @lexmtaylor 6 днів тому +1

      I’ve always included one or bounce lands just because it feels like a good way to have one more land.

    • @bobbyfartz5591
      @bobbyfartz5591 6 днів тому +5

      And then play white catch-up ramp

    • @chrisdomingo9143
      @chrisdomingo9143 5 днів тому +1

      Bounce lands are underrated … only duel land that taps for 2 colors one time

    • @thedoctorbob7
      @thedoctorbob7 5 днів тому

      ​@@chrisdomingo9143 only kinda bad if your group plays wasteland effects a lot. It's a tempting target

  • @simonchi5372
    @simonchi5372 6 днів тому +42

    I keep seeing lately people saying expensive commanders or do nothing cards that requires other effects are unplayable. Which kind of bothers me since it's the format you are supposed to have the time to play those cards and they aren't playable in any competitive format. It seems like the competitive mindset is getting into EDH like you need to win at all costs etc.

    • @ericyang8474
      @ericyang8474 5 днів тому +6

      The problem then lies in the fact that you have someone playing casual 1-3 drops that generate quick value while someone else spend 2 or 3 turns doing nothing before curving out clunky or do nothing cards, and that person then complains when they lose. All the flashy fun cards people want to play nowadays are also powerful, flexible, and low cost pieces that can win games when unchecked.

    • @acetraker1988
      @acetraker1988 5 днів тому +3

      It is not just competitive, the power level of even casual decks or universe beyond decks/sets are on the rise. The fact is, you have one turn against 3 other players who have 3 turns. Do nothing cards are unplayable because even if a game last 10-15 turns you are so behind the other players in terms of tempo and game state.

    • @JeffreyGoddin
      @JeffreyGoddin 5 днів тому

      Well I played a 6 mana commander last night (thematic merfolk) and my turn 6 or 7 play of Slinn Voda kicked for 10 mana was my janky version of cyclonic rift, and whaddya know, we all had fun.

    • @Volkbrecht
      @Volkbrecht 5 днів тому

      It's not necessarily the competitive mindset. But information is everywhere, so new players coming in already start at a relatively high standard of deck building, and even filthy casuals like me try their best not to play inefficient or unfocused decks. Not out of a desire to win as much as possible, but just because I want to at least be in the game. To have my deck do things, and not sit around watching everyone else popping off.

    • @Shimatzu95
      @Shimatzu95 4 дні тому +2

      ​@@Volkbrechtthe problem is a mix of both realy.
      You got the people coming in from 60 card formats that, obviously, are more competitive minded, in conjunction of the power sprint due to the sheer amouth of product released.
      In addition to that there is also the type of "casuals" that just grab am1 random optimised decklist and play it against whoever they come up. This tends to be a much more common problem in online play or when proxying is going too far with the added bonus that they are likely to not have another deck and refusing to adjust to their surroundings.

  • @Zanzibawrr
    @Zanzibawrr 6 днів тому +12

    the thing about cards like phyrexian arena, bitterblossom and the likes is that they are much, MUCH better in 1v1 than in 4v4. having to wait 3 turns per card drawn is so much slower than having to wait just 1.

  • @Helios810
    @Helios810 6 днів тому +17

    9:56 props to you for being mindful of budgets.

    • @xiqy1959
      @xiqy1959 5 днів тому +1

      One word: Proxy. Its not complicated.

    • @kris834
      @kris834 5 днів тому +1

      @@xiqy1959 Yeah but that just creates an arms race, both are fine, but I think budget is better.

  • @killclancy5758
    @killclancy5758 6 днів тому +8

    i have a deck that still runs Condemn and the immortal sun AND it even still runs Righteousness and it wins games all the time, still great cards!

  • @EdHGuru
    @EdHGuru 6 днів тому +25

    I’d argue that commander has gotten closer to brawl now or has a similar problem as modern with a pseudo rotation is in effect cards that used to cut it just don’t anymore even casual edh is no longer a 10 turn format like it used to be unless you build sub optimal on purpose. Haymakers interaction and general cards just cost less mana. Now there are some of the super staple older cards that still do the thing but every set has new staples that push out other cards.

    • @thiccbirbboy
      @thiccbirbboy 6 днів тому

      REAL. There's so many boardwipes now, I can't even build an Unstoppable army of thallids lmao

    • @OverlyCriticalAnime
      @OverlyCriticalAnime 6 днів тому +1

      Power creep is definitely a thing. There always seems to be strictly better cards in each set now.

    • @bobbyfartz5591
      @bobbyfartz5591 6 днів тому +3

      My games still go beyond turn ten most times. Then again I play 4/5 board wipes and removal, so…

    • @AgentMurphy286
      @AgentMurphy286 3 дні тому

      @@bobbyfartz5591 Funny how often we hear online people bemoan shorter games and a disdain for removal and wipes.

    • @bradcallahan3546
      @bradcallahan3546 День тому

      Sounds like a you problem.

  • @johncarey7786
    @johncarey7786 5 днів тому +4

    had to immediately go and look at the price of Forcefield. I have half a dozen sitting in a box , had no idea it was worth anything!!

  • @egyptian316
    @egyptian316 6 днів тому +5

    I've only played a few games in the last few months, and those against players from the old days (Ice Age/Chronicles Era players). It's really eye-opening how different some play styles can be. Commanders get countered or zapped as soon as they hit the board. Nobody has more than 4-5 lands in play because mass land destruction was in everyone's deck. Nobody is casting multiple creatures because every deck had 6+ board wipes. How do you win? Phase a big creature out and Jokulhaups. Cast Armageddon right before your Impending big beater arrives. Be the only person at the table to successfully cast Feldon's Cane.
    Commander is *rough*. I don't know how people manage to do it. I haven't won a game in years.

    • @PhotriusPyrelus
      @PhotriusPyrelus 5 днів тому

      That sounds about as fun as a root canal. But hey, you EDH nerds wanted this. Stew in the hell of your own creation.

    • @egyptian316
      @egyptian316 5 днів тому +2

      @@PhotriusPyrelus I like that you came into the comments section of an MtG video, and had the unmitigated gall to call somebody else a nerd. :)

  • @devapaths
    @devapaths 6 днів тому +5

    hey demo i started playing commander and mtg around ixalan and kaldheim was the first set i bought a lot and why found your channel in the first place (i think i was looking for a firja judge of valor deck) some months ago i build your sirgrid deck and been having a lot of fun with it and getting a lot of "how is the white deck policing the table?"
    great channel and cheers for four more years

  • @Akario3
    @Akario3 5 днів тому +1

    Almost 4 years later nd you're responsible for a LOT of ruined notebook pages with tech cards noted on them and cross referencing prices and online availability haha. Nowadays, got all the budget available and looking through those notes is super nostalgic, plus I can actually just get those cards and try stupid stuff. Thanks for all the good times so far, and here's to more in the future! Btw love these longer form talky videos lately.

  • @ThisNameIsBanned
    @ThisNameIsBanned 6 днів тому +12

    People intentionally gimp their decks to make them more casual now.
    Thats a trend thats very clear and widespread.
    If you enjoy that fine, the other trend is people that dont want to do that quickly end up enjoying cEDH and go full on that, which quite heavily splits the community apart between these two extremes.

    • @hahahafunniness
      @hahahafunniness 6 днів тому +3

      Almost like there can be no in between. Centrist getting rekt once again

    • @robertcarsten4050
      @robertcarsten4050 6 днів тому +1

      Seems like a self correcting system.

    • @cw5948
      @cw5948 3 дні тому +1

      The problem is though that your optimized pet deck simply can’t compete against the likes of Rogsi that typically wins turn 2 or 3 unless stopped. So now where do you get to play your optimized deck with a commander that is not at the top of the meta?

    • @ThisNameIsBanned
      @ThisNameIsBanned 2 дні тому +1

      @@cw5948 Indeed. Against turbo decks in particular, creature based interaction that is most relevant in a casual metagame is basically worthless, as the win option of these style of cEDH decks is inherently fast and stack-interactive. If someone can tutor for a thoracle win or underworld, decks need quite specific interaction, mostly counterspells, thats not the kind of things a casual deck would include at all, or just in very few numbers.
      Thats more of a fundamental problem of what kind of interactive game is actually played, as graveyard hate does exist, but people usually play very few or sorcery speed interaction that just doesnt shape up against a combo deck that demands an answer at that specific moment.
      Simply put, if your casual deck doesnt run blue for cheap counterspells, you probably just sit there and they goldfish for the win.

  • @Theanthill216
    @Theanthill216 5 днів тому +1

    Idk about yall but to me EDH is Casual and about running unique cards and legends that dont see competitive 60 card formats.
    I love 7 drop commanders even in non green colors; i like $100 budgets more than good stuff piles, and synergy always outweighs “staples on edhrec top 100”. I think that competitive mindsets in a casual format is nonsensical; the issue is less so edh and moreso that players who aren’t casual minded.

  • @sunsfssb7699
    @sunsfssb7699 3 дні тому +1

    I really like how you realised that Phyrexian Arena is a bad card while you were trying to defend it.
    Black Market Connections surely is a nice Phyrexian Arena replacement though. The new Room Enchantment Annex Might be a somewhat nice Arena too.

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  2 дні тому +1

      i try to be as objective as possible. i talk about it more in an upcoming video about how commander staples have changed.

  • @michaelpatalano9884
    @michaelpatalano9884 6 днів тому +3

    Here’s to 4 more!!

  • @JamieHitt
    @JamieHitt 6 днів тому +9

    It's funny watching inherently competitive players coming to terms with the realities of current day Commander. The industry has made it unapologetically clear that Commander has become the most widely played format for MTG. Which in and of itself would be fine, until they add the part about how it's becoming a casual family/friends kitchen table game where competitive salt isn't very welcome. Essentially, the majority of MTG has become the equivalent of Chutes and Ladders. And that's just too much for hardcore OG players to swallow.
    But you have to understand....it's very common for one person to show up with all four decks. The other players don't even own MTG cards. And they aren't that interested in getting all sweaty learning the 500 page book of rules. Rule Zero gets implemented a dozen times per play group just to simplify gameplay. It's less about winning and more about pizza. And seeing WotC/Hasbro leaning hard into that trend is more than some can bear.

    • @Volkbrecht
      @Volkbrecht 5 днів тому +1

      But that's just one aspect of it. My reality for instance is an LGS, where even the newbies do some homework and come in with cheap, but relatively well thought-out, efficient decks. There is no rule zero, everyone plays by the book. And while the more enfranchised players are really relaxed and don't sweat it, their decks are pretty tough, and when you don't adapt over time, you'll not have much fun on those tables.

  • @DiscoStuIII
    @DiscoStuIII 6 днів тому +3

    I'll simp for some chunk of the cards you dont want to include though. Worn powerstone is still the best 3 mana rock and fits well into high cmc decks. Phyrexian arena is great for decks that plan for longer games, and immortal sun isnt good but man does it feel great to play.

  • @bradcallahan3546
    @bradcallahan3546 День тому

    The game has changed a lot since I started playing EDH in 2005.

  • @daltonfalletta4686
    @daltonfalletta4686 6 днів тому +3

    Man, has it really been 4 years? Wow. I’ve probably seen every video

  • @WawrzyniecTheIII
    @WawrzyniecTheIII 6 днів тому +1

    Rebuff the Wicked does work on spells that target multiple permanents like Decimate better than Blacksmith's Skill. But that is about it.

  • @MrSpikebomb5
    @MrSpikebomb5 3 дні тому

    I haven't paid much attention but could u make a powercreep video? How is Epic Downfall powercrept? it still seems pretty good. Is it cuz theres way more focus on synergy strategies now instead of just good value cards?

  • @nikator8097
    @nikator8097 5 днів тому

    Regarding tutors i feel some sort of like you.
    Had them in decks, but it felt weird to play them in lower powered game groups (there my decks still belonged to) with other players not using them and felt ridiculous as my decks were still that casual that the tutors were not generating a major game-winning effect.
    I'm therefore happy with the new bracket system where i can remove the tutors for an "advantage" (move to lower bracket) or i'm "forced" to use the tutors properly to fuel a high powered deck.

  • @Candyapplebone
    @Candyapplebone 6 днів тому

    I started playing bounce lands a lot less too. Also lands that come into play tapped, in general. Gotta be able to cast your spells on-turn

    • @jakecarlson3709
      @jakecarlson3709 5 днів тому

      I think there are really only 3 good reasons to run bounce lands, and they all come down to how you build your decks. One is turning on you catch up ram in white, one is turning your “free” spells (like snap, unwind, rewind, etc) into rituals, and finally if you play an abundance of mdfcs.

  • @shawnbroderick7544
    @shawnbroderick7544 5 днів тому

    Bounce lands are great with mdfc lands.

  • @kris834
    @kris834 5 днів тому +1

    10:45 There is some situations where rebuff would be better like against cards that target lots of your stuff like, curse of the swine, decimate, or casualties of war. Plus indestructible isn't that good anymore as well with all the board wipes that get around it.

  • @kurtschumacher8074
    @kurtschumacher8074 5 днів тому

    Pauper EDH!

  • @Adam_First
    @Adam_First 6 днів тому

    Great video

  • @zaydek6926
    @zaydek6926 День тому

    I don't get the gripe with cyclonic rift aside from the price tag. With a board clear, you're usually in a tight spot to build back resources, but with Cyclonic, all those resources are in your enemies' hands. Not to mention you become the instantaneous threat/target.

  • @Raisukee
    @Raisukee 4 дні тому

    I don't think card design has changed the format that much, but rather its popularity means people have access to info on how to build and play better decks.
    If you went back in time to say 2014 with all the knowledge you have now, you'd probably bring your new standards with you and run circles around the average pod.
    This happens with fighting games too. New players pick up on advanced concepts from their favorite youtubers really fast, raising the floor for what's considered decent even in games from decades ago.

  • @themoviewatcher
    @themoviewatcher 5 днів тому

    Tuck rule was long gone by the time Keldhiem came around. I started playing cmdr in 2016 and never had to deal with it.

  • @seanwechsler6783
    @seanwechsler6783 6 днів тому +5

    Great video! 👍
    My playgroup banned all nonland tutors. Tutors ruin the purpose of a 99 card deck full of what’s supposed to be all different cards.
    Power creep is a whole issue idk how to solve. Commander used to be the go to format where you could go to play old classic staples like Nightmare for example. I honestly wish we could go back and draw the line at an older set in the past. And say “all new cards printed after said set are banned”. But players wouldn’t agree on which set to draw the line.
    I also think we need to just separate casual and competitive as formats. It’s like playing regular baseball vs major league baseball. Might be the same game, but the major league is only looking win games and budget is not an issue.

    • @davidcardoso3525
      @davidcardoso3525 6 днів тому +3

      PreDH is a thing. Its cutoff is when the first dedicated Commander product came out. This means New Phyrexia is the last set allowed.

    • @isidoreaerys8745
      @isidoreaerys8745 7 годин тому

      Even bad ones like Moon-Blessed Cleric?

    • @seanwechsler6783
      @seanwechsler6783 6 годин тому

      @@isidoreaerys8745 yes, even the bad and non-competitive tutors.
      It’s a gripe my playgroup talked out together. The rule honestly only really hurts combo decks. Decks that only win through combos by drawing and searching through their deck for the same cards every game, in order to create consistency in a 99 card format that’s not designed to be that consistent.

  • @Zendrig
    @Zendrig 6 днів тому

    I haven't updated my decks in 2-3 years. Now they'd probably lose to precons. But it is what it is. I've spent enough money on the game since 1998.

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  6 днів тому +3

      commander was supposed to be the format that you could not update your decks ever.

  • @Freund2300
    @Freund2300 6 днів тому +5

    probably weird thing, but the fact that your background wall is so close to you gives me a bizzarr claustrophobic feeling xD

  • @Executioner9000
    @Executioner9000 6 днів тому

    I need to get a condemn. It gets around indestructible, and putting a card on the bottom of a library is effectively the same as exile

    • @cd15turb3d
      @cd15turb3d 5 днів тому

      Only works on attacking creatures. Not bad but not really great.

  • @Ultr4l0f
    @Ultr4l0f 4 дні тому

    Ungh. I bought one, and built another, commanderdeck around 2011-2013.
    Hardly played it after those years but plenty of Arena up until Streets of Capena.
    But with old friends suddenly picking the game up fornthe first time Im thinking about building my 3rd commanderdeck now. So Im bingeing youtube-edh stuff.
    Seeing this video makes me squirm a bit.
    Commander felt so nice because you could play slower stuff and jank.
    But this video, and another I watched, as well as the last four games I played (this summer) realy hammers home the power creep.
    Wrath of God isnt effeicent enough? Because you "only" kill all creatures for 4 mana?
    I felt that the powercreep around the Ikoria/Kaldheim era was bad enough....

  • @lomalindasmogcheck1
    @lomalindasmogcheck1 6 днів тому +5

    One big thing everyone is missing so far: Play groups will get closed off; having IP only pods, non ip pods, and mix ip pods.
    - Disenfranchisement will dramatically increase.
    Mtg commander will change too much with wotcommander.

    • @Theanthill216
      @Theanthill216 5 днів тому

      Yes and no; i can see some ppl not podding with UB commanders but i also see a lot more acceptance in pods of UB cards. Maybe its not preferred but unless its unset, it doesnt change gameplay much, just the visual. I personally only have an lotr precon that’s a UB commander, i like mtg and older artwork. I dont even care much for borderless cards but ikoria and other sets are UB enough that its been a thing for 5 years now. Secret lair i dont agree with at all; thats another story

    • @isidoreaerys8745
      @isidoreaerys8745 7 годин тому

      @@Theanthill216I was like What’s wrong With Dhimir decks??

  • @parazightsporch2523
    @parazightsporch2523 6 днів тому

    Do you ever bring any of these casual decks to tournaments? Is it fun?

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  6 днів тому +1

      commander tournament is an oxymoron in my opinion. those two things don't go together.

    • @parazightsporch2523
      @parazightsporch2523 6 днів тому

      @@edhdeckbuilding Sometimes they do go together. Enough people like the idea of competitive commander so that they form tournaments. So, why would people need advice on building casual decks? Do people that play casually need to know that the 'format is changing rapidly'?

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  6 днів тому +1

      @@parazightsporch2523 so competitive commander? also know as cedh.

    • @parazightsporch2523
      @parazightsporch2523 6 днів тому

      @@edhdeckbuilding I'm guessing that I'm not the only cedh player that was directed towards your video due to its title.

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  5 днів тому

      @@parazightsporch2523 really? how does the title do that?

  • @MrJpurvis620
    @MrJpurvis620 5 днів тому

    Love deathsprout

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  5 днів тому

      i actually checked. i do still have it in the deck.

    • @MrJpurvis620
      @MrJpurvis620 4 дні тому

      @ I view it as 3 mana removal (on par) with 1 extra mana to ramp

  • @Linguistic1
    @Linguistic1 6 днів тому

    That Aegar Deck would be a Ghyrson Starn deck these days.

  • @redicecreamcone7546
    @redicecreamcone7546 4 дні тому

    I think mystical tutoring for board clears is very fair - I don't see a reason to not include it in blue decks

  • @booftown452
    @booftown452 6 днів тому

    what program is that?

  • @banditbiker5190
    @banditbiker5190 5 днів тому

    I have decks that are casual. And I have decks that are not. I also have casual decks (it's a 7 😂) with a 15 card go infinite side board.

  • @chrisgebben2043
    @chrisgebben2043 6 днів тому

    wait a minute i had no idea you use Xmage for deck testing

  • @Radjammin
    @Radjammin 6 днів тому

    You know merchant scroll gets blue instants.

    • @edhdeckbuilding
      @edhdeckbuilding  6 днів тому

      i do know that. and it used to be really expensive.

  • @LKMizore112
    @LKMizore112 5 днів тому

    Well maybe, they should not do things that i can only remove with cyclonic rift with my Sultai deck. 😂😂

  • @isidoreaerys8745
    @isidoreaerys8745 8 годин тому

    Sounds like there’s too much efficient removal in the format now. It’s invalidated to old removal and made staple permanents infeasible.

  • @Boatanga
    @Boatanga 4 дні тому

    No man commander hasn’t changed anyway check out my new Captain America deck

  • @hahahafunniness
    @hahahafunniness 6 днів тому +1

    I can already read all the zoomer comments calling you a boomer

    • @ohthatpie
      @ohthatpie 6 днів тому

      4 years isent really all that much imo. I've met players who have been playing for 20 years now that's crazy.

  • @markdziamski4859
    @markdziamski4859 6 днів тому

    Fierce Guardianship is fantastic because once my commander hits the boards and someone’s to Infernal Grasp it right away. I didn’t need to wait to have mana for interaction

  • @SlavesWereGood
    @SlavesWereGood 3 дні тому

    commander has been broken forever its one of the worste formats to play

  • @chadclark3186
    @chadclark3186 3 дні тому +1

    Who listens to this guy

  • @culex69
    @culex69 5 днів тому +1

    I'm glad I don't play this crap anymore