Can I say they are equally important but can also be player specific? Here is my reasoning: Let's take you and Coach for example. Last year when your putting fell off you relied on your driver which put you in play very consistently. This allowed your approach shots to have a closer proximity to the hole on average. Thus your putting was not as crucial in your scoring. Could your scores have been better yes, but you were still able to score. In Coach's case he was struggling to hit a driver in play so he relied on a club that would put him in play but much further away from the hole on an approach shot. For Coach, the fact that he was putting well still gave him the ability to score. I think it boils down to understanding your shortcomings as a player and mitigating those. Great video Mark!
Great video, it's good to hear real talk of the easiest thing to change, rather than just what the student thinks he needs help on. I went to get a new putter today as I am just getting back into golf and the pro said I have a good technique that he wouldn't change, just needed to change the address. Honesty is key. And now I am a return customer and go back for every fitting and advice, because it's genuine and not just about sales.
I have rinky dinks in constantly on our videos, were as you and Lockey are hitting short irons. I make a good par from 200 yards and you guys are looking at making birdies from 150 yards and in. It was highlighted today even more when I played golf with a lad who hit it 80-100 yards past me(he was a long hitter even in the pro ranks)
If you're shooting above 90, I don't care how good your putting is, face control and keeping it in play is always going to be the most important thing to work on. Lower 80s and it quickly becomes apparent that recovery shots and holing putts is what separates the big dogs.
But even us mid handicappers are still going to scrape the ball up somewhere near the green from 200 yards. If you can chip and one putt it's a par. Chip and two putt and it's a bogey. That's what separates the men from the boys, the short game.
Very true. Interesting video as always but focus is almost purely on distance and not quality. For pro’s quality is virtually a given. For amateurs then have to consider quality too. Give me the option of having a round of Rory’s drives or Sophie’s drives I’m taking Sophie’s every time despite less distance. With Sophie’s drives you are always going to be in play but with Rory’s there is always going to be some 7s on the card.
"Hopefully making a lot of you understand and learn more about your game so we can all get a little better." What an amazing message. Delivering the best of your knowledge to help others. Wouldn't be into golf if it weren't for you, Mark.
I returned to playing late last year after 10 years out. Played Harrogate GC and decided to hit 5 irons off the tee, 5 wood at a push. Then lay up short of greens and try and chip and putt and accept bogeys or a double at worst. I shot a 93 (par 71), which taking into account my previous skill level (not broken 100) no practice and an unfamiliar course was pretty good. Lesson = Course management > Distance. Preach! I did that with a free set of 'Woosie Hippo' clubs I got off Freecycle. I'm guessing they're nearly 20 years old lol
I just played 18 holes on a Lake course yesterday. Two holes stood up very clearly about having a good drive wins half the battle. Both Par 4, both about 360 yards, the first one I hit a bad drive went into water, took me 4 shots to reach the fringe of the green about 40 yards to the holes. I managed to chip into the hole. Great chip, right? But it is a boggey! The next one, I have a good 230 yards drive middle of the fairway, reached the green with a short iron. One put. Birdie! I totally agreed with you Mark. To play a good round of golf, we have to be good in all departments. Thank you Mark for the good video.
Really good point about skill and effort. About two years ago I changed coach an in my first lesson told him I felt I lacked power in my game. Was also quite accurate but short. It took me over a year to start to be able to play to handicap again. In total eighteen months, I nearly quit golf at times. The end result, I am now playing easily the best golf ever, I have gained around 20-30 yards off the tee and around one and a half clubs through my irons. My handicap has come down five shots. But yes it was really hard, to get where I am now I was spending three to four hours a time two to three days a week practicing.
Great blog brah. Very interesting debate. It’s def clear to me. Don’t neglect your putting and short game! So easy to go to the range and just blast drivers, hybrids and 7 irons!!
I love these discussions because they are ideas that make the game more fun for me. Playing closer tees, chipping with my hybrid, one length irons are the kinds of things that make the game easier and more fun. Between work, kids, wife, etc its really hard to find a ton of time to practice or even get a round in with out making someone angry for being gone for 5 hours lol
I understand your point wholeheartedly. I have been using my Game golf app since three years ago or so. It points out that I need to work on my approach shots over 150 yards to reduce my handicap. If you don't track your game in a methodical way, it is not easy to assess your weakness accurately. A great video!
For what it's worth I had a plan, needed to keep the driver in play first, hit the greens more often and then tighten up the putting. The positive progression fuelled the next step. Now it's fairways ,greens, pars birdies.... !!! Like you said depends how much time and effort you want to put in.. the harder you work the luckier you'll get !! 👍
Great video, I used to always think putting was the ultimate key to scoring. In September I had my best medal score in over a decade and on review the reason was pure and simple, I hit every fairway from the tee and hit 15 greens in regulation. From the fairway it was so much easier than battling
Another enjoyable video.. I've played golf at no great level for years and just enjoy it. When ever i went to the range i would spend 80% hitting my driver.. really i should have worked more on my other shots and clubs. Recently after watching you i have worked on my putting so much more and seen a big improvement in my scoring and putting confidence. Next step to work hard on my chipping. You give such good advice. Can't believe how Many videos you put out.. i Can't keep up !
Great discussion! Getting off the tee is the most important shot. If you can’t get the ball in play or have a manageable second. High scores are inevitable. Getting closer to the hole will help anyone’s game. Short game is when you score. Putting is just as important as it can save you strokes, but it starts off the tee in my opinion.
Love the new Under Armour gear played all last season in the Spieth One’s and they were the most comfortable golf shoe I have ever worn anxiously awaiting my Spieth Two’s
Really enjoyed this vlog mark . hitting your tee shots longer puts less stress on your next shot into the greens which again should put less stress on your putting . so improving all your game would be best but long driving helps so much . like when you and lockey tested it in Spain even if was in the second cut of rough .
There are many things as you said that play into a round of golf. On our local small course I and my son can compete. When we go to the 'pro' course he beats me by 10 to 15 strokes. Difference??? Length. I struggle to get driver out there 220 230 yards. He hits it 270 to 280. He has a wedge, I have a long iron or wood. He can stop it on the green, I have to run it up on the green and hope to stop it. He has the distance, but if we compete from 130 in I can hang with him and his friends. So many factors. Great video Mark, love your discussion starters.
I could listen to Mark, Dan, Coach and Rory talk about golf all day long. Thank you Mr Crossfield. We would all love a few straighter linger drives and equally fewer two and three putts. #262
Good comments again mark I’m shorting my course at the the moment to make the game more enjoyable for the members cause that’s what it’s all about , WGU have come full circle on this over the years , it used to be all about length but it’s now about making it more playable . 👍
Very interesting topic. I quiet agree with you. I happen to be longer than most of my competetors which is a huge advantage as long as I'm hitting it straight off the tee. When we get on shorter courses I feel I must play much better as the it effectively equalizes things. I am much more interested in my long game and keeping it straight. Great video as always.
In the words of Jack Nickalaus, " A good drive is a great start to a par, maybe a birdie. A bad drive is a great start to a bogey or worse. No amount of great putting can help someone who struggles with GIR's
My issue is mostly my second and third shots getting onto the green. I usually two putt, and my driving is decent. Accuracy with mid and long irons as well as hybrids would help a ton.
I know getting to 300 yards consistently has improved my game immensely. The distance is obviously helpful but knowing my drive will reach 300 helps me map out my plan of attack at each hole...if that makes any sense. Great stuff as always brahhh!
Great question Mark. Several of the guys I play with continue saying that cliche phrase, yet they don't putt well. I haven't been playing the game for all that long, but it seems to me that hitting a great drive, but putting three or four times is pointless, when most of the shots picked up or lost happen after the initial tee shot. I find that I'm comfortable taking a conservative approach off the tee, i.e. long iron or mid iron, in order to set myself up for a better 2nd and 3rd shot. I'm more concerned with getting on the green and limiting putts than I am about blasting some wet dream drive 300 + yards. Maybe as my game improves I will be more aggressive on the tee box, but I see value in scoring when I can position myself well for that 2nd and 3rd shot and allow myself a chance to limit strokes putting. Great video bro! Cheers!
Have had a series of lessons. Driving and irons have improved off the scale. Driving in play 250 yards as opposed to week fade. Being in play is so important!!!. However, being in play has in turn shown up a weakness in my short game as not converting the good drive or slight iron miss. Now working on that part of the game and putting lesson the week after next!
Good video Mark, I fully understand, it is understanding where your strengths and weaknesses are. Ironically I play on a championship course (Notts), which you visited with Soph a few years back, and you get used to the 200yd in 2nd shots and in fact I used to be quite good from those sort of distances. You then play a shorter course or a course with small greens and then struggle because you haven't got those shots in your locker. I would always take improved putting but then overlook it, but at least you can putt indoors which is one thing!
Hi Mark I practice on my weak point of my game I know I’m not going to drive it 300 so my 5 wood and 3 wood are my choice of weapon so that’s what I practice as for chipping it comes natural for me but putting WOW that is my area I need to work on as if I hit greens in regulation I can 2 or 3 putt but sometimes I deliberately hit my iron shot short as I know I can get it up and down with less shots Fantastic video as normal
100% agree with you on this one Mark. I'm generally a good putter, as in nearly guaranteed 2 putt and the odd 1 putt. But that 2 putt can a lot of the time be for bogey because I'm too far away from the green to hit in regulation. If I can gain 15-20 yards off the tee and be hitting up to 2 clubs less into the green my 2 put will end up in a par more often and lower my scores. I generally find if I have a good driving day my score are usually better.
Great video as always. Been reading a book called "every shot counts" by mark broadie which disproves the putting cliche. Exactly as you say in the video distance off the tee matters. There is another saying. " if you can't putt, you can't score. But if you can't drive you can't play". Difference hitting a 9 iron into a green as opposed to a 5 iron is that you're hitting one of you're scoring clubs as opposed to something to get you on or near the green. Shots gained approach to looking at scoring seems really good
Another good video and one to keep us thinking. Given time constraints it also becomes about choices for me. Initial focus was the fairway in, hitting greens in regulation, ideally. Driving important to accomplish and now I'm working on just that for consistency and control. But that distance thing is age relevant. I'll be 60 this year and irked that my driver carry is 235 to 240 at best. Then one of the teaching pros where my coach works told me the average drive on the senior tour is around 235, hmm. May I'm not that far off and should accept age?? Third step is putting because I can do that at home and lastly I'll join you and focus on chipping. It's a building process and while driving can definitely improve club selection to the green, putting makes up for many shortcomings.
Dustin Johnson and John Rahm were 1st and 2nd in strokes gained off the tee in 2017. They both happen to be ranked 1st and 2nd in the world. Driving/ball striking in general is what makes someone a good golfer in my eyes. Putting and short game is what maximizes your scoring potential.
great video that addressed a lot of good stuff. I think for me personally, (being a 4 handicap) my driving is the 1 part of my game that is so inconsistent. On good days i hit a soft fade about 300 total yards. On bad days i'm hooking my driver and hitting it considerably short like around 270. I normally play at a course that 6500 yards so distance is a huge factor in my mind. I think that most people are concerned with driving because is the so called "sexy" part of golf. However a legitimate case can be made for lowering scores with some assistance on drives.
Totally agree that as an amateur improving the 170 - 200 yard shot into green would make a massive difference to my scoring - and I think this is a really hard distance to manage an improvement on
Really intriguing discussion. If you have the time and skill. Get longer. If you don’t then hit the fairway and make a call about putting/chipping vs approach shots. For me - I think I need to shave shots on putting and chipping. If I was 16 again I would focus on getting longer.
I agree that distance is great. A few years ago a new links course opened up. We were greeted with advice what tees to play from. They had 6 sets. We were told play the tees that we could carry the hazards. This would help to neutralize the difficulty of the course even for the shorter hitters. It is not perfect but helpful so that they could hit lesser irons for their approach shots. I know distance is king, but good putting skill does help in scoring. I have had enough bad days to prove it. Last year was and this year will be increasing my putting skills.
A year or so ago I averaged 186 off the tee. Some hard work and a great coach I now average 218 off the tee. The difference if massive when it comes to that 2nd shot. How good my putting is now the difference between a good round and an average one. Before with such short drives I was needing firm fairways and a lucky bounce to be able to stand any chance of getting GIR even on reasonable length par4s.
I feel this also fits into a subject you have touched on before, which is playing of the correct Tee. I go off 53 (meters) usually, while a buddy of mine always wants to play from 58, and I end up struggling so much more. I like 53, as I am not a good player, but also because it leaves me with chances of better scores. I can hit a 7 or 8 into rather than a 5 or a hybrid. And I find that just so much more enjoyable than to have to fight for a bogey or d-bogey, than to having a par or even a birdie chance every now and then. Golf is more fun this way imho
I play a short course like you said at the end and struggle with hitting fairways with long clubs on the proper long courses but my 180 and in is good. So I definitely fall into your category of needing to work on the 200+ range of the bag.
Great video and topic, my view is that if you are long and in play off the tee, your approach shots are probably going to be closer to the hole than someone shorter off the tee so you wouldn’t need to be as good at putting as your putts would be shorter but if you’re short off the tee you will definitely need to have a better short game because you’re more likely to miss greens! I think most golfers in general will have a strength because of their weakness! Like Luke Donald, shorter off the tee than other pros so says himself iron play and short game have to be good to compete
Very interesting discussion .... I think putting is by far the easiest to achieve, you have facilities in your home to practice, doesn't require conditioning and is easier to master, in my opinion. Trying to practice driving, increase distance etc all adds up to proving very difficult. Having time to exercise, having money to attend the range to practice and time to attend for regular pratice, all are factors when trying to improve your driving. Putting can be achieved through a couple of lessons and practicing regularly in front of you TV... literally. Enjoyed that video though, more of the same please!
It's pretty much a bit of everything that is amateurs need to find the time to work on. For me I practice my chipping and putting in my garage off of a turf mat with a chipping net and my puttout aid bc that's what I can practice the most frequent esp with the weather. I've used some of your ideas on delivering the club to improve my strike and that has helped me be more consistent and slowly drop strokes
I understand the whole argument either way! I made it to single figure handicap last year through short game improvements! I just can’t drive the ball well at all! If I am to get any better I would need to be able to hit a straighter/longer ball from driver to long irons, it’s noticeable if I have a bad chipping/putting round them I am nowhere near my handicap!
For the golfer hitting in the 90's-100's getting the ball 180-200 yards down but on the fairway 90% of the time has got to be worth 5 shots compared to a 225-250 yard drive on the fairway 50% of the time. Bogey golf doesn't need distance, but it does require some degree of accuracy. I'm currently trying to get my game into the consistent 80's bracket, i think that distance of the tee allowing a sub 150 yard shot onto the green starts to become an important factor at this level. If I have 200ish yards or more on to the green I could hit my hybrid/3 wood but to be honest a 5/6 iron to the front and pitch/chip for with the goal of a bogey is less likely to result in a blow out.
Great vid Mark, I think everything you're saying make sense but I do think you are mixing 2 things. First off when I read the title of your vid i didn't think tour player/tour length courses. Having said that I would change the the phrase fro drive for show putt for dough to drive for show short game for dough!!! As amateurs go we need short game work we need to be better from 100 in. Those people us amateurs will not score better booming 270 yds drives down the middle but shake in our shoes at 35 foot putts. I personally believe that if you take a brand new player who has never played the game and start them out from the green and work to the tee box as compared to the opposite you will have a better player much faster. Maybe I am wrong idk!! As always great job keep em coming Mark!!!
On a serious note, perhaps the attitude of "fix my drive" which we interpret as being a distance motivator has more to do with control. After all, I suspect most amateur golfers has greater variance (left-right, short-long) with their driver than say PW. Great video Mark. Enjoying the vids immensely.
I play to my handicap and under when I drive the ball well and have a good ball striking day. My best round last season was 78, with 37 putts. I have also had outstanding putting days and failed to break 90. So in essence, I think getting the ball in position is key.
I would 100% say driving is the bigger benefit. 90% of my rounds in a year are played with my father-in-law, who is a much better putter than I am, and much more patient in and around the greens, but on every par 4/5 I am driving it 30-75 yards longer than him (depending on club, strike, etc). So the fact that I'm usually hitting 6/7 iron or down and he is hitting 3 wood/hybrid as a second shot, or sometimes hitting a second shot to still get up to my tee shot gives me the "ability" to 3 putt and still win the hole. Since I have played a par 4 at +1, he is sometimes getting onto the green with his 4th shot on the hole.
Great content as usual MC Parfield. In support of your point, I think Chris De Marco said something similar about Tiger. Chris was hitting 4 or 5 iron and Tiger was taking a 9 or wedge. Obviously you can control it better if you are closer to the green. #Controlmyball
I watched a video recently of Jordan Spieth. How he looks at a hole is from back to front, now this is interesting for I think 2 reasons. 1st he sees his putting as the area which he can make something happen (hole the putt). 2nd getting to the hole is his challenge (even though he isn’t that short). The point is with putting if you can master and at the elite level they do it’s a powerful weapon, but you’ve still got the other 7,000 yards to get to the greens though. So much can go wrong when getting to the green there isn’t as much of a penalty when you’re on the green, not saying putting is easy by any means.
I feel my game has improved since working on my short game, at the moment I'm steadily consistent around my current handicap. But feel that with a bit more work and summer conditions, my handicap will come down.
When I came back to playing recently I was losing several balls a round none of these with my putter though! Been working on my game a lot over the winter as I want to go from 6 to well under six, while it's great to have a strength in the game but you need to be able to do most things well to get better.
Us everyday bros have seen you at this golf course a lot in the Daily’s and years ago in a few vlogs. Content idea would be a behind the scenes at this course and the old golf range or other familiar places, etc. I miss that bare patch. You did so many vids there.
Hi Mark this video and the previous one was brilliant, I even dowloaded and read the report. It’s obviously written for the manufactures, who will, with their products, produce further distance off the tee, but must hackers like me, have real trouble with the second or third shot, where we are standing on uneven lies and the shot requires skill not a highly developed product, the driver, where we can all practice on a flat surface with a nice perfect tee, is easy to practice at night after work, the sort game isn’t. If they bring in rules to make the ball shorter, the manufacturers will be selling loads more balls! Keep up the great work.
Funny how you have made the same comments my Pro has mentioned to me. I've just order a complete new set of clubs and he was drumming into me the crucial aspect of getting your gapping correct for the wedges as you both have said. There are strokes to be gained around the greens.
I can sympathise a little because last season my normal weekly playing partner and I played in the club greensomes. I (10 hdcp) am known for my distance off the tee and he (13 hdcp)is known for his straight (albeit short) accuracy. We won the tournament to +4 gross. My point is when we chose my tee shot, he was hitting an 8 iron into our stroke index 1 hole, instead of as he normally did, playing a rinky short and then chipping close with hopefully one putt. He relied on his accuracy, chipping and putting whereas I relied on my distance (230-240 metres average) off the tee and an easier shot to the flag giving me a birdie chance. Basically as per your description of you and Lee Westwood, except as a team!! Hope this is clear because it doesn't seem like it now I have finished!! Sorry! Great Video Bruh and by the way Monin coffee syrups are the best!!
Although I agree that driving it in the fairway is very important, improving your putting and chipping will massively improve your score. And improving those can be done in your house easily if you don't have time or access to the range. Driving it straight is terrific too.
In one year I went from a 20 handicap to a 12 handicap because of 3 things -- 1) moving up a set of tees from 6600-6800 to 6100-6500, 2) hitting my 3 wood off the tee more often which tends to be more accurate than my driver, and 3) spending a TON of my range time working on chipping/pitching/putting. I'm a pretty decent ball striker but accuracy (GIR %) needs some work. When I worked on my short game diligently I was getting up/down for par a lot more often, which translated to lower scores and a lower handicap in a very short period of time (over the course of a year). I'd much rather be on the "putt for dough" side of the debate than hitting the ball "tour long" off the tee.
Great Video , I agree with getting better off the tee with the driver ,Thats all I have been doing for 3 months ,got fed up with dropped shots out of the woods , 3 off the tee ,unplayable balls in heavy rough then having to drain a 15 footer for a 6 ,whats the fun in that .Hitting irons of matts ruins my game ,gives me the shanks ,and turns me in to a picker of the ball plus I don't have anywhere to practice full shots of grass,so living near a driving range with good range balls lets me practice what I can improve (driver,3 wood)
I think the more important issue is not which is more important, but rather, what the player is capable of improving. If you are not physically capable of increasing driving distance significantly, then working on the short game is your best/only option. I would also contend that improving your chipping/pitching is the most effective method to improve your scores. If you can consistently chip within the 3' circle, then you are going to make more putts than the player who is 6' away, without being the better putter. Most anyone can develop a great short game, but driving the ball like a tour pro is not within reach for most average players.
Last season I practiced chipping and putting alot, even if it was for 20mins on the way home from work, I done it as often as I could prob 4/5 times per week.... I was an 8hcap) done this for a couple of months....but tbh my weakness was always with the driver, so I took my driver out of the bag for a few rounds just to see how I faired.... long story short I was hitting mid to low 70's and then I managed to par my course during a medal round which dropped me to 5.0... (currently 5.4) so for me "driving for show putting for dough" is deffo a true statement.....
Great discussion, I’m currently playing of 15 and hit 50/60 past some 6 handicappers I play with, my failure is my quality of dispersion 120 and in. They hit within putting distance hence I’m doing some winter tuning ...🏌🏿🏌🏿🏌🏿
I would argue that you have the better building blocks to be a really good player than someone of a similar handicap who is short but straight. I think it would be easier for you (with practice and maybe lessons) to sort out your dispersion issues than for a short hitter to gain those extra 50 yards. Report back in 6 months!!
Great vid Mark, love this. Gotta keep it in play though! 10 degrees off with an iron is trouble, but could be OB with a driver... especially if that driver is #262 long
I'd also posit that if one finds themselves consistently coming into greens from 200 yards out, they should think of teeing off from different (closer) tees........BTW, love the artwork in the kitchen by the espresso maker!
What is an average amateur drive distance? What is an average amateur for that matter. How much longer would the amateur need to be to get the shorter approach advantage? I read somewhere that tech has not made us amateurs by which I mean weekend golfers, better in 30 years of tech 'improvements'! Love the show.
So to add to this discussion, how does accuracy fit into or effect the discussion. My uncle was a scratch golfer, but never long. I could outdrive him but never beat him. Easier to hit a mid iron from center fairway to center green 2 putts for par, than it was for me to go 9i or wedge from the woods find a trap, chip on and 2 putt for bogey. So where is the balance point between accurate and long?
Cripes Mark...spooky ! Describing my golf...need 30-50 yards off the tee and more practice short game/putts...kind of drive and putt for dough and show! (I do put the time in btw and lessons are the best)
Nice jumper! I thought "drive for show, putt for dough" was in reference to the 14 shots you might hit with a driver vs the 36 putts you may have on the greens. In a round of golf, you may miss the fairway from the tee a few times out of the 14, but if your putter is on fire you can shave that 36 down to 30 then you've saved 6 shots in your round. But I totally get the premise you made about having a shorter distance in if you bomb the driver, so long as bombing the driver was not the only thing, but you can putt as well. 👍⛳
I completely fell apart at Saunton. It was asking questions which were completely different than what I am used to. Left with a feeling of having another go at it.
Interesting point. I love golf history, so here is a point. When were the best golfers not long hitters? Ted Ray , Vardon etc, then Hogan, Sneed and Nelson. After that Palmer and Nicklaus. Then Seve Norman etc, and now, self evident with DJ, Rory, Rahm, Day and Thomas ......that is not to say that great short game players and great putters do not do well. Big hitters who can putt, sort of game over.
In my bookcase I have Greg Norman's 'Shark Attack' guide to aggressive golf'. Norman postulates '"Don't ever try and sell me on that old adage drive for show putt for dough". Greg was a superb driver of the ball back in his heyday of 1980s. He always felt being able to attack par-4s in one or with a short pitch put him at a distinct advantage. HOWEVER, he also surmised that the average golfer will not match his driving ability, BUT with enough desire and practice and tuition could come closer to matching him for chipping and putting. My personal belief is that if you are playing an average amateur course of 6500 yards and you are in a medal format, your number one aim off the tee has to be to try and keep it on the fairway. I hit my 16 degree hybrid about 220 yards. My driver might go a bit further but on a short par-4 or tight par-5 it is not worth the risk. If the par-4 exceeds 400 yards, unless the wind is assisting, I will aim to get on in 3 shots. That is what the stroke index is for. The aim with the second is to leave you with a decent little approach. The same goes for par-5s. Skill around the greens will easily save you 6 shots and that is where most amateurs should put the majority of their practice effort as opposed to whaling away with a driver on the range.
Interesting subject, 50/50 of whether i agree with Dan, on one hand putting is what saves your score, on the other hand hitting 180yard drives on par 4/5s is always going to give you difficult 2nd/3rd shots and never give you the chance of saving your par or better. I also think this is where people miss a point on strong lofted irons, if you can suddenly hit a 7iron in place of a 6 (distance wise) then you are going to have easier shots to play into greens etc, with the thought that the shorter the club the easier the shot..... Id always rather hit a 7i in place of a 6 if ive got the option.....
Like so many other parts in the game of golf and life its about balance. Yes length off the tee can be helpful only if you can pull of the following shot. If you took an amature and advance their drive to a distance from the pin where they couldn't hit a full wedge into the green their birdy possibility will start to decrease, because most high handicappers struggle with dispersion on less than full shots. So the clique works or doesnt based on the balance between ones drive and thier approach shot skill set.
for me, being a 22 hcp golfer, the biggest advantage comes from staying on the fairway and in bounds. thats where i think most amateurs arelosing the majority of their shots. as long as i keep the ball reasonablly in ply, i can par or even birdie holes, but once in the rough, i get punished with doubles and tripples. #keepitontheplanet
As a longer hitter (handicap 4.9) I lean slightly more towards the distance/accuracy factor over putting. I can have a good driving/putting and shoot sub 74’s. Good driving and average putting and shoot 75-80. However if the long game goes then no matter how well I putt I’m not breaking 80.
When I drive well and putt badly I feel like I've played better but when I putt well and drive badly I usually score better (often my drives are off the planet). Scrambling pars gives me the confidence to make birdie putts if/when they come.
Love the vlogs as usual. Next one should be how to convince the wife to turn your backyard into a practice green. That'll definitely shave strokes of a lot of scores. 😁
I use the Arccos system to track my game. I know that my approach shot is the weak link in my game at 12. Driving overall is +2.4 and putting is close to 1. The 12 is down from 28 at the end of last season. Without the stats I would be working on putting almost exclusively instead of my irons. While I work on all of the areas I work on driving the least followed by putting and irons the most. The more you know.
I realised that to get down from 12 h'cap to single figures i needed help from a coach. I found a good one and in 2 months I got my first proper h'cap....7! Course isn't to long, and i made up shots largely on striking ball better with 3 iron down, but chipping and putting got much better as I put practise in. Now to get lower I need to work on the big dog..... that's going to need more work! It is a cliche comment, but to be a good golfer you have to be good at both!
Interesting topic. For me it depends on the person as to where they need to improve most. For you Mark, chipping so thats what you spend your time on. For me its low point and strike
Just a different take on the video. I have just took up the game 3 years ago ( 50 years old). I get more pleasure from hitting a long drive (230yrds) than hitting a 20yrd putt. Driving for pleasure, putting for moving on to the next drive
Started 11 months ago, 42, I have the opposite preference. I love putting and chipping above all else. Driving and woods are necessary evils that quickly bring me near greens. Irons are evils that greatly destroy my game and enjoyment...
I personally struggle more off the tee than around the green. I'm a reasonably long hitter and when I'm off-line, it can ruin my hole. When I'm playing well with the longer clubs, i give myself a lot more chances. I'd rather miss a birdie putt and make par than have to scramble for it. Most of the time I'm scrambling. I'm not saying I'm perfect with the short game but I'm a lot more comfortable playing from 150 meters in. I guess that just highlights the fact i have some swing issues that need attending to 👍
I think that whether you drive it 180 or 250 yards it's more important to keep it in play. For most mid-high handicappers you are going to be playing a third shot into the green ( it certainly made me better with pitching! ) then you just hope for as few three-putts as possible.
Here's my take: I'm just as crap with my PW as I am with my 8i. So if I've got 100 in or 150 in I can still spoon it into the drink!! I definitely think that practising short game benefits the average golfer more than time spanking the driver on the range
Can I say they are equally important but can also be player specific? Here is my reasoning:
Let's take you and Coach for example. Last year when your putting fell off you relied on your driver which put you in play very consistently. This allowed your approach shots to have a closer proximity to the hole on average. Thus your putting was not as crucial in your scoring. Could your scores have been better yes, but you were still able to score. In Coach's case he was struggling to hit a driver in play so he relied on a club that would put him in play but much further away from the hole on an approach shot. For Coach, the fact that he was putting well still gave him the ability to score. I think it boils down to understanding your shortcomings as a player and mitigating those. Great video Mark!
Great video, it's good to hear real talk of the easiest thing to change, rather than just what the student thinks he needs help on.
I went to get a new putter today as I am just getting back into golf and the pro said I have a good technique that he wouldn't change, just needed to change the address. Honesty is key. And now I am a return customer and go back for every fitting and advice, because it's genuine and not just about sales.
I have rinky dinks in constantly on our videos, were as you and Lockey are hitting short irons. I make a good par from 200 yards and you guys are looking at making birdies from 150 yards and in.
It was highlighted today even more when I played golf with a lad who hit it 80-100 yards past me(he was a long hitter even in the pro ranks)
But you never miss a fairway!!!! #firstlady
Hey Soph, always love watching your swing. Hope you're due for a vlog with Mark and Matt soon. Wish you all the best with the tour. Cheers :)
If you're shooting above 90, I don't care how good your putting is, face control and keeping it in play is always going to be the most important thing to work on. Lower 80s and it quickly becomes apparent that recovery shots and holing putts is what separates the big dogs.
But even us mid handicappers are still going to scrape the ball up somewhere near the green from 200 yards. If you can chip and one putt it's a par. Chip and two putt and it's a bogey. That's what separates the men from the boys, the short game.
Very true.
Interesting video as always but focus is almost purely on distance and not quality. For pro’s quality is virtually a given. For amateurs then have to consider quality too.
Give me the option of having a round of Rory’s drives or Sophie’s drives I’m taking Sophie’s every time despite less distance.
With Sophie’s drives you are always going to be in play but with Rory’s there is always going to be some 7s on the card.
"Hopefully making a lot of you understand and learn more about your game so we can all get a little better."
What an amazing message. Delivering the best of your knowledge to help others. Wouldn't be into golf if it weren't for you, Mark.
so is the same dude hitting the thumbs down on every video??? and does he work for TM??? great content Mark!
I enjoy that Dan is now a regular in your vids. He’s a likeable guy with a ton of knowledge.
This was the first lesson I ever received in golf from my papa who introduced me to the game. Drive for show putt for dough.
I returned to playing late last year after 10 years out. Played Harrogate GC and decided to hit 5 irons off the tee, 5 wood at a push. Then lay up short of greens and try and chip and putt and accept bogeys or a double at worst. I shot a 93 (par 71), which taking into account my previous skill level (not broken 100) no practice and an unfamiliar course was pretty good. Lesson = Course management > Distance. Preach! I did that with a free set of 'Woosie Hippo' clubs I got off Freecycle. I'm guessing they're nearly 20 years old lol
I just played 18 holes on a Lake course yesterday. Two holes stood up very clearly about having a good drive wins half the battle. Both Par 4, both about 360 yards, the first one I hit a bad drive went into water, took me 4 shots to reach the fringe of the green about 40 yards to the holes. I managed to chip into the hole. Great chip, right? But it is a boggey! The next one, I have a good 230 yards drive middle of the fairway, reached the green with a short iron. One put. Birdie! I totally agreed with you Mark. To play a good round of golf, we have to be good in all departments. Thank you Mark for the good video.
Really good point about skill and effort. About two years ago I changed coach an in my first lesson told him I felt I lacked power in my game. Was also quite accurate but short. It took me over a year to start to be able to play to handicap again. In total eighteen months, I nearly quit golf at times.
The end result, I am now playing easily the best golf ever, I have gained around 20-30 yards off the tee and around one and a half clubs through my irons. My handicap has come down five shots. But yes it was really hard, to get where I am now I was spending three to four hours a time two to three days a week practicing.
Absolutely loving these daily vlogs. Really getting discussions going in every video. Nice one Parfield
Great blog brah. Very interesting debate. It’s def clear to me. Don’t neglect your putting and short game! So easy to go to the range and just blast drivers, hybrids and 7 irons!!
I love these discussions because they are ideas that make the game more fun for me. Playing closer tees, chipping with my hybrid, one length irons are the kinds of things that make the game easier and more fun. Between work, kids, wife, etc its really hard to find a ton of time to practice or even get a round in with out making someone angry for being gone for 5 hours lol
I really love the way you think. I have the same feelings towards this quote. To be good at golf, one must practice all aspects of his game. 🙂
I understand your point wholeheartedly. I have been using my Game golf app since three years ago or so. It points out that I need to work on my approach shots over 150 yards to reduce my handicap. If you don't track your game in a methodical way, it is not easy to assess your weakness accurately. A great video!
For what it's worth I had a plan, needed to keep the driver in play first, hit the greens more often and then tighten up the putting. The positive progression fuelled the next step. Now it's fairways ,greens, pars birdies.... !!! Like you said depends how much time and effort you want to put in.. the harder you work the luckier you'll get !! 👍
Great video, I used to always think putting was the ultimate key to scoring. In September I had my best medal score in over a decade and on review the reason was pure and simple, I hit every fairway from the tee and hit 15 greens in regulation. From the fairway it was so much easier than battling
Another enjoyable video..
I've played golf at no great level for years and just enjoy it. When ever i went to the range i would spend 80% hitting my driver.. really i should have worked more on my other shots and clubs. Recently after watching you i have worked on my putting so much more and seen a big improvement in my scoring and putting confidence. Next step to work hard on my chipping. You give such good advice. Can't believe how Many videos you put out.. i Can't keep up !
M4 moment 😄 'out the toe....gone left' so that's twistface reviewed then! 🤣
Sub liminal message of doubt...Purchase Titleist!!!
Great discussion! Getting off the tee is the most important shot. If you can’t get the ball in play or have a manageable second. High scores are inevitable. Getting closer to the hole will help anyone’s game. Short game is when you score. Putting is just as important as it can save you strokes, but it starts off the tee in my opinion.
Totally agree with you....more distance is the key for the average golfer!! We need to pass this on the the USGA & the R&A.
Great video Mark! I agree with you 100% I am a decent player at a 6 handicap and I always play my best rounds when I am driving it long and straight.
Love the new Under Armour gear played all last season in the Spieth One’s and they were the most comfortable golf shoe I have ever worn anxiously awaiting my Spieth Two’s
I love watching Mark thanks Mark your the best
Really enjoyed this vlog mark . hitting your tee shots longer puts less stress on your next shot into the greens which again should put less stress on your putting . so improving all your game would be best but long driving helps so much . like when you and lockey tested it in Spain even if was in the second cut of rough .
There are many things as you said that play into a round of golf. On our local small course I and my son can compete. When we go to the 'pro' course he beats me by 10 to 15 strokes. Difference??? Length. I struggle to get driver out there 220 230 yards. He hits it 270 to 280. He has a wedge, I have a long iron or wood. He can stop it on the green, I have to run it up on the green and hope to stop it. He has the distance, but if we compete from 130 in I can hang with him and his friends. So many factors. Great video Mark, love your discussion starters.
I could listen to Mark, Dan, Coach and Rory talk about golf all day long. Thank you Mr Crossfield. We would all love a few straighter linger drives and equally fewer two and three putts. #262
Good comments again mark I’m shorting my course at the the moment to make the game more enjoyable for the members cause that’s what it’s all about , WGU have come full circle on this over the years , it used to be all about length but it’s now about making it more playable . 👍
Very interesting topic. I quiet agree with you. I happen to be longer than most of my competetors which is a huge advantage as long as I'm hitting it straight off the tee. When we get on shorter courses I feel I must play much better as the it effectively equalizes things. I am much more interested in my long game and keeping it straight. Great video as always.
In the words of Jack Nickalaus, " A good drive is a great start to a par, maybe a birdie. A bad drive is a great start to a bogey or worse. No amount of great putting can help someone who struggles with GIR's
My issue is mostly my second and third shots getting onto the green. I usually two putt, and my driving is decent. Accuracy with mid and long irons as well as hybrids would help a ton.
I know getting to 300 yards consistently has improved my game immensely. The distance is obviously helpful but knowing my drive will reach 300 helps me map out my plan of attack at each hole...if that makes any sense. Great stuff as always brahhh!
Great question Mark. Several of the guys I play with continue saying that cliche phrase, yet they don't putt well. I haven't been playing the game for all that long, but it seems to me that hitting a great drive, but putting three or four times is pointless, when most of the shots picked up or lost happen after the initial tee shot. I find that I'm comfortable taking a conservative approach off the tee, i.e. long iron or mid iron, in order to set myself up for a better 2nd and 3rd shot. I'm more concerned with getting on the green and limiting putts than I am about blasting some wet dream drive 300 + yards.
Maybe as my game improves I will be more aggressive on the tee box, but I see value in scoring when I can position myself well for that 2nd and 3rd shot and allow myself a chance to limit strokes putting.
Great video bro! Cheers!
Have had a series of lessons. Driving and irons have improved off the scale. Driving in play 250 yards as opposed to week fade. Being in play is so important!!!. However, being in play has in turn shown up a weakness in my short game as not converting the good drive or slight iron miss. Now working on that part of the game and putting lesson the week after next!
Love your jumper, and love to see part 2!
Excellent as usual. In a nutshell then, be good at both. Practise, practise, practise.
Another gem Mark, cheers.
Good video Mark, I fully understand, it is understanding where your strengths and weaknesses are. Ironically I play on a championship course (Notts), which you visited with Soph a few years back, and you get used to the 200yd in 2nd shots and in fact I used to be quite good from those sort of distances. You then play a shorter course or a course with small greens and then struggle because you haven't got those shots in your locker. I would always take improved putting but then overlook it, but at least you can putt indoors which is one thing!
ive been having this convo with my father for a long time and i agree with you perfectly!!!
Hi Mark I practice on my weak point of my game I know I’m not going to drive it 300 so my 5 wood and 3 wood are my choice of weapon so that’s what I practice as for chipping it comes natural for me but putting WOW that is my area I need to work on as if I hit greens in regulation I can 2 or 3 putt but sometimes I deliberately hit my iron shot short as I know I can get it up and down with less shots
Fantastic video as normal
100% agree with you on this one Mark. I'm generally a good putter, as in nearly guaranteed 2 putt and the odd 1 putt. But that 2 putt can a lot of the time be for bogey because I'm too far away from the green to hit in regulation. If I can gain 15-20 yards off the tee and be hitting up to 2 clubs less into the green my 2 put will end up in a par more often and lower my scores. I generally find if I have a good driving day my score are usually better.
Great video as always. Been reading a book called "every shot counts" by mark broadie which disproves the putting cliche. Exactly as you say in the video distance off the tee matters. There is another saying. " if you can't putt, you can't score. But if you can't drive you can't play". Difference hitting a 9 iron into a green as opposed to a 5 iron is that you're hitting one of you're scoring clubs as opposed to something to get you on or near the green. Shots gained approach to looking at scoring seems really good
Tobias Larsen Another good read is “Lowest Score Wins”. They reference Every Shot Counts. They statistically prove driving>putting.
Josh Leech cheers for that. I quite like the statistics books especially when they disprove old wives tales
Another good video and one to keep us thinking. Given time constraints it also becomes about choices for me. Initial focus was the fairway in, hitting greens in regulation, ideally. Driving important to accomplish and now I'm working on just that for consistency and control. But that distance thing is age relevant. I'll be 60 this year and irked that my driver carry is 235 to 240 at best. Then one of the teaching pros where my coach works told me the average drive on the senior tour is around 235, hmm. May I'm not that far off and should accept age??
Third step is putting because I can do that at home and lastly I'll join you and focus on chipping. It's a building process and while driving can definitely improve club selection to the green, putting makes up for many shortcomings.
Dustin Johnson and John Rahm were 1st and 2nd in strokes gained off the tee in 2017. They both happen to be ranked 1st and 2nd in the world. Driving/ball striking in general is what makes someone a good golfer in my eyes. Putting and short game is what maximizes your scoring potential.
great video that addressed a lot of good stuff. I think for me personally, (being a 4 handicap) my driving is the 1 part of my game that is so inconsistent. On good days i hit a soft fade about 300 total yards. On bad days i'm hooking my driver and hitting it considerably short like around 270. I normally play at a course that 6500 yards so distance is a huge factor in my mind. I think that most people are concerned with driving because is the so called "sexy" part of golf. However a legitimate case can be made for lowering scores with some assistance on drives.
Totally agree that as an amateur improving the 170 - 200 yard shot into green would make a massive difference to my scoring - and I think this is a really hard distance to manage an improvement on
Really intriguing discussion. If you have the time and skill. Get longer. If you don’t then hit the fairway and make a call about putting/chipping vs approach shots. For me - I think I need to shave shots on putting and chipping. If I was 16 again I would focus on getting longer.
I agree that distance is great. A few years ago a new links course opened up. We were greeted with advice what tees to play from. They had 6 sets. We were told play the tees that we could carry the hazards. This would help to neutralize the difficulty of the course even for the shorter hitters. It is not perfect but helpful so that they could hit lesser irons for their approach shots. I know distance is king, but good putting skill does help in scoring. I have had enough bad days to prove it. Last year was and this year will be increasing my putting skills.
A year or so ago I averaged 186 off the tee. Some hard work and a great coach I now average 218 off the tee. The difference if massive when it comes to that 2nd shot. How good my putting is now the difference between a good round and an average one. Before with such short drives I was needing firm fairways and a lucky bounce to be able to stand any chance of getting GIR even on reasonable length par4s.
I feel this also fits into a subject you have touched on before, which is playing of the correct Tee. I go off 53 (meters) usually, while a buddy of mine always wants to play from 58, and I end up struggling so much more. I like 53, as I am not a good player, but also because it leaves me with chances of better scores. I can hit a 7 or 8 into rather than a 5 or a hybrid. And I find that just so much more enjoyable than to have to fight for a bogey or d-bogey, than to having a par or even a birdie chance every now and then. Golf is more fun this way imho
I play a short course like you said at the end and struggle with hitting fairways with long clubs on the proper long courses but my 180 and in is good. So I definitely fall into your category of needing to work on the 200+ range of the bag.
Like your take on local courses vs championship courses and length. I’ve been playing for over 40 years, never real serious, I think that tuer
Great video and topic, my view is that if you are long and in play off the tee, your approach shots are probably going to be closer to the hole than someone shorter off the tee so you wouldn’t need to be as good at putting as your putts would be shorter but if you’re short off the tee you will definitely need to have a better short game because you’re more likely to miss greens! I think most golfers in general will have a strength because of their weakness! Like Luke Donald, shorter off the tee than other pros so says himself iron play and short game have to be good to compete
Very interesting discussion .... I think putting is by far the easiest to achieve, you have facilities in your home to practice, doesn't require conditioning and is easier to master, in my opinion. Trying to practice driving, increase distance etc all adds up to proving very difficult. Having time to exercise, having money to attend the range to practice and time to attend for regular pratice, all are factors when trying to improve your driving. Putting can be achieved through a couple of lessons and practicing regularly in front of you TV... literally. Enjoyed that video though, more of the same please!
It's pretty much a bit of everything that is amateurs need to find the time to work on. For me I practice my chipping and putting in my garage off of a turf mat with a chipping net and my puttout aid bc that's what I can practice the most frequent esp with the weather. I've used some of your ideas on delivering the club to improve my strike and that has helped me be more consistent and slowly drop strokes
I understand the whole argument either way! I made it to single figure handicap last year through short game improvements! I just can’t drive the ball well at all! If I am to get any better I would need to be able to hit a straighter/longer ball from driver to long irons, it’s noticeable if I have a bad chipping/putting round them I am nowhere near my handicap!
For the golfer hitting in the 90's-100's getting the ball 180-200 yards down but on the fairway 90% of the time has got to be worth 5 shots compared to a 225-250 yard drive on the fairway 50% of the time. Bogey golf doesn't need distance, but it does require some degree of accuracy. I'm currently trying to get my game into the consistent 80's bracket, i think that distance of the tee allowing a sub 150 yard shot onto the green starts to become an important factor at this level. If I have 200ish yards or more on to the green I could hit my hybrid/3 wood but to be honest a 5/6 iron to the front and pitch/chip for with the goal of a bogey is less likely to result in a blow out.
Great vid Mark, I think everything you're saying make sense but I do think you are mixing 2 things. First off when I read the title of your vid i didn't think tour player/tour length courses. Having said that I would change the the phrase fro drive for show putt for dough to drive for show short game for dough!!! As amateurs go we need short game work we need to be better from 100 in. Those people us amateurs will not score better booming 270 yds drives down the middle but shake in our shoes at 35 foot putts. I personally believe that if you take a brand new player who has never played the game and start them out from the green and work to the tee box as compared to the opposite you will have a better player much faster. Maybe I am wrong idk!! As always great job keep em coming Mark!!!
On a serious note, perhaps the attitude of "fix my drive" which we interpret as being a distance motivator has more to do with control. After all, I suspect most amateur golfers has greater variance (left-right, short-long) with their driver than say PW. Great video Mark. Enjoying the vids immensely.
I play to my handicap and under when I drive the ball well and have a good ball striking day.
My best round last season was 78, with 37 putts.
I have also had outstanding putting days and failed to break 90.
So in essence, I think getting the ball in position is key.
I would 100% say driving is the bigger benefit. 90% of my rounds in a year are played with my father-in-law, who is a much better putter than I am, and much more patient in and around the greens, but on every par 4/5 I am driving it 30-75 yards longer than him (depending on club, strike, etc). So the fact that I'm usually hitting 6/7 iron or down and he is hitting 3 wood/hybrid as a second shot, or sometimes hitting a second shot to still get up to my tee shot gives me the "ability" to 3 putt and still win the hole. Since I have played a par 4 at +1, he is sometimes getting onto the green with his 4th shot on the hole.
Great content as usual MC Parfield. In support of your point, I think Chris De Marco said something similar about Tiger. Chris was hitting 4 or 5 iron and Tiger was taking a 9 or wedge. Obviously you can control it better if you are closer to the green. #Controlmyball
I watched a video recently of Jordan Spieth. How he looks at a hole is from back to front, now this is interesting for I think 2 reasons. 1st he sees his putting as the area which he can make something happen (hole the putt). 2nd getting to the hole is his challenge (even though he isn’t that short). The point is with putting if you can master and at the elite level they do it’s a powerful weapon, but you’ve still got the other 7,000 yards to get to the greens though. So much can go wrong when getting to the green there isn’t as much of a penalty when you’re on the green, not saying putting is easy by any means.
I feel my game has improved since working on my short game, at the moment I'm steadily consistent around my current handicap. But feel that with a bit more work and summer conditions, my handicap will come down.
When I came back to playing recently I was losing several balls a round none of these with my putter though!
Been working on my game a lot over the winter as I want to go from 6 to well under six, while it's great to have a strength in the game but you need to be able to do most things well to get better.
Us everyday bros have seen you at this golf course a lot in the Daily’s and years ago in a few vlogs. Content idea would be a behind the scenes at this course and the old golf range or other familiar places, etc. I miss that bare patch. You did so many vids there.
Hi Mark this video and the previous one was brilliant, I even dowloaded and read the report. It’s obviously written for the manufactures, who will, with their products, produce further distance off the tee, but must hackers like me, have real trouble with the second or third shot, where we are standing on uneven lies and the shot requires skill not a highly developed product, the driver, where we can all practice on a flat surface with a nice perfect tee, is easy to practice at night after work, the sort game isn’t. If they bring in rules to make the ball shorter, the manufacturers will be selling loads more balls! Keep up the great work.
Funny how you have made the same comments my Pro has mentioned to me. I've just order a complete new set of clubs and he was drumming into me the crucial aspect of getting your gapping correct for the wedges as you both have said. There are strokes to be gained around the greens.
I can sympathise a little because last season my normal weekly playing partner and I played in the club greensomes. I (10 hdcp) am known for my distance off the tee and he (13 hdcp)is known for his straight (albeit short) accuracy. We won the tournament to +4 gross. My point is when we chose my tee shot, he was hitting an 8 iron into our stroke index 1 hole, instead of as he normally did, playing a rinky short and then chipping close with hopefully one putt. He relied on his accuracy, chipping and putting whereas I relied on my distance (230-240 metres average) off the tee and an easier shot to the flag giving me a birdie chance. Basically as per your description of you and Lee Westwood, except as a team!! Hope this is clear because it doesn't seem like it now I have finished!! Sorry! Great Video Bruh and by the way Monin coffee syrups are the best!!
Although I agree that driving it in the fairway is very important, improving your putting and chipping will massively improve your score. And improving those can be done in your house easily if you don't have time or access to the range. Driving it straight is terrific too.
In one year I went from a 20 handicap to a 12 handicap because of 3 things -- 1) moving up a set of tees from 6600-6800 to 6100-6500, 2) hitting my 3 wood off the tee more often which tends to be more accurate than my driver, and 3) spending a TON of my range time working on chipping/pitching/putting. I'm a pretty decent ball striker but accuracy (GIR %) needs some work. When I worked on my short game diligently I was getting up/down for par a lot more often, which translated to lower scores and a lower handicap in a very short period of time (over the course of a year). I'd much rather be on the "putt for dough" side of the debate than hitting the ball "tour long" off the tee.
Great Video , I agree with getting better off the tee with the driver ,Thats all I have been doing for 3 months ,got fed up with dropped shots out of the woods , 3 off the tee ,unplayable balls in heavy rough then having to drain a 15 footer for a 6 ,whats the fun in that .Hitting irons of matts ruins my game ,gives me the shanks ,and turns me in to a picker of the ball plus I don't have anywhere to practice full shots of grass,so living near a driving range with good range balls lets me practice what I can improve (driver,3 wood)
I think the more important issue is not which is more important, but rather, what the player is capable of improving.
If you are not physically capable of increasing driving distance significantly, then working on the short game is your best/only option. I would also contend that improving your chipping/pitching is the most effective method to improve your scores. If you can consistently chip within the 3' circle, then you are going to make more putts than the player who is 6' away, without being the better putter.
Most anyone can develop a great short game, but driving the ball like a tour pro is not within reach for most average players.
Last season I practiced chipping and putting alot, even if it was for 20mins on the way home from work, I done it as often as I could prob 4/5 times per week.... I was an 8hcap) done this for a couple of months....but tbh my weakness was always with the driver, so I took my driver out of the bag for a few rounds just to see how I faired.... long story short I was hitting mid to low 70's and then I managed to par my course during a medal round which dropped me to 5.0... (currently 5.4) so for me "driving for show putting for dough" is deffo a true statement.....
Great discussion, I’m currently playing of 15 and hit 50/60 past some 6 handicappers I play with, my failure is my quality of dispersion 120 and in. They hit within putting distance hence I’m doing some winter tuning ...🏌🏿🏌🏿🏌🏿
I would argue that you have the better building blocks to be a really good player than someone of a similar handicap who is short but straight. I think it would be easier for you (with practice and maybe lessons) to sort out your dispersion issues than for a short hitter to gain those extra 50 yards. Report back in 6 months!!
Great vid Mark, love this. Gotta keep it in play though! 10 degrees off with an iron is trouble, but could be OB with a driver... especially if that driver is #262 long
I'd also posit that if one finds themselves consistently coming into greens from 200 yards out, they should think of teeing off from different (closer) tees........BTW, love the artwork in the kitchen by the espresso maker!
What is an average amateur drive distance? What is an average amateur for that matter. How much longer would the amateur need to be to get the shorter approach advantage? I read somewhere that tech has not made us amateurs by which I mean weekend golfers, better in 30 years of tech 'improvements'! Love the show.
So to add to this discussion, how does accuracy fit into or effect the discussion. My uncle was a scratch golfer, but never long. I could outdrive him but never beat him. Easier to hit a mid iron from center fairway to center green 2 putts for par, than it was for me to go 9i or wedge from the woods find a trap, chip on and 2 putt for bogey. So where is the balance point between accurate and long?
Cripes Mark...spooky ! Describing my golf...need 30-50 yards off the tee and more practice short game/putts...kind of drive and putt for dough and show! (I do put the time in btw and lessons are the best)
Nice jumper! I thought "drive for show, putt for dough" was in reference to the 14 shots you might hit with a driver vs the 36 putts you may have on the greens. In a round of golf, you may miss the fairway from the tee a few times out of the 14, but if your putter is on fire you can shave that 36 down to 30 then you've saved 6 shots in your round. But I totally get the premise you made about having a shorter distance in if you bomb the driver, so long as bombing the driver was not the only thing, but you can putt as well. 👍⛳
I completely fell apart at Saunton. It was asking questions which were completely different than what I am used to. Left with a feeling of having another go at it.
Interesting point. I love golf history, so here is a point. When were the best golfers not long hitters? Ted Ray , Vardon etc, then Hogan, Sneed and Nelson. After that Palmer and Nicklaus. Then Seve Norman etc, and now, self evident with DJ, Rory, Rahm, Day and Thomas ......that is not to say that great short game players and great putters do not do well. Big hitters who can putt, sort of game over.
In my bookcase I have Greg Norman's 'Shark Attack' guide to aggressive golf'. Norman postulates '"Don't ever try and sell me on that old adage drive for show putt for dough". Greg was a superb driver of the ball back in his heyday of 1980s. He always felt being able to attack par-4s in one or with a short pitch put him at a distinct advantage. HOWEVER, he also surmised that the average golfer will not match his driving ability, BUT with enough desire and practice and tuition could come closer to matching him for chipping and putting.
My personal belief is that if you are playing an average amateur course of 6500 yards and you are in a medal format, your number one aim off the tee has to be to try and keep it on the fairway. I hit my 16 degree hybrid about 220 yards. My driver might go a bit further but on a short par-4 or tight par-5 it is not worth the risk. If the par-4 exceeds 400 yards, unless the wind is assisting, I will aim to get on in 3 shots. That is what the stroke index is for. The aim with the second is to leave you with a decent little approach. The same goes for par-5s. Skill around the greens will easily save you 6 shots and that is where most amateurs should put the majority of their practice effort as opposed to whaling away with a driver on the range.
As a Royal Marine and member of Saunton I very much enjoyed this video 👍 if you need an extra player for your upcoming course vlog give me a shout 😉
Interesting subject, 50/50 of whether i agree with Dan, on one hand putting is what saves your score, on the other hand hitting 180yard drives on par 4/5s is always going to give you difficult 2nd/3rd shots and never give you the chance of saving your par or better. I also think this is where people miss a point on strong lofted irons, if you can suddenly hit a 7iron in place of a 6 (distance wise) then you are going to have easier shots to play into greens etc, with the thought that the shorter the club the easier the shot..... Id always rather hit a 7i in place of a 6 if ive got the option.....
Like so many other parts in the game of golf and life its about balance. Yes length off the tee can be helpful only if you can pull of the following shot. If you took an amature and advance their drive to a distance from the pin where they couldn't hit a full wedge into the green their birdy possibility will start to decrease, because most high handicappers struggle with dispersion on less than full shots. So the clique works or doesnt based on the balance between ones drive and thier approach shot skill set.
for me, being a 22 hcp golfer, the biggest advantage comes from staying on the fairway and in bounds. thats where i think most amateurs arelosing the majority of their shots. as long as i keep the ball reasonablly in ply, i can par or even birdie holes, but once in the rough, i get punished with doubles and tripples. #keepitontheplanet
As a longer hitter (handicap 4.9) I lean slightly more towards the distance/accuracy factor over putting. I can have a good driving/putting and shoot sub 74’s. Good driving and average putting and shoot 75-80. However if the long game goes then no matter how well I putt I’m not breaking 80.
When I drive well and putt badly I feel like I've played better but when I putt well and drive badly I usually score better (often my drives are off the planet). Scrambling pars gives me the confidence to make birdie putts if/when they come.
Love the vlogs as usual. Next one should be how to convince the wife to turn your backyard into a practice green. That'll definitely shave strokes of a lot of scores. 😁
I use the Arccos system to track my game. I know that my approach shot is the weak link in my game at 12. Driving overall is +2.4 and putting is close to 1. The 12 is down from 28 at the end of last season. Without the stats I would be working on putting almost exclusively instead of my irons. While I work on all of the areas I work on driving the least followed by putting and irons the most. The more you know.
speed (and so driver distance) is a handicap limiter - where as to be competitive for your handicap great short game and putting wins!
Comment of the day David
I realised that to get down from 12 h'cap to single figures i needed help from a coach. I found a good one and in 2 months I got my first proper h'cap....7! Course isn't to long, and i made up shots largely on striking ball better with 3 iron down, but chipping and putting got much better as I put practise in. Now to get lower I need to work on the big dog..... that's going to need more work! It is a cliche comment, but to be a good golfer you have to be good at both!
Interesting topic. For me it depends on the person as to where they need to improve most. For you Mark, chipping so thats what you spend your time on. For me its low point and strike
Just a different take on the video. I have just took up the game 3 years ago ( 50 years old). I get more pleasure from hitting a long drive (230yrds) than hitting a 20yrd putt.
Driving for pleasure, putting for moving on to the next drive
Started 11 months ago, 42, I have the opposite preference. I love putting and chipping above all else. Driving and woods are necessary evils that quickly bring me near greens. Irons are evils that greatly destroy my game and enjoyment...
David Abrial thanks for the comment.
Nice to see someone get my point it's about enjoying the game !!!
I personally struggle more off the tee than around the green. I'm a reasonably long hitter and when I'm off-line, it can ruin my hole. When I'm playing well with the longer clubs, i give myself a lot more chances. I'd rather miss a birdie putt and make par than have to scramble for it. Most of the time I'm scrambling. I'm not saying I'm perfect with the short game but I'm a lot more comfortable playing from 150 meters in. I guess that just highlights the fact i have some swing issues that need attending to 👍
I think that whether you drive it 180 or 250 yards it's more important to keep it in play. For most mid-high handicappers you are going to be playing a third shot into the green ( it certainly made me better with pitching! ) then you just hope for as few three-putts as possible.
Here's my take: I'm just as crap with my PW as I am with my 8i. So if I've got 100 in or 150 in I can still spoon it into the drink!!
I definitely think that practising short game benefits the average golfer more than time spanking the driver on the range