Dear Viewers, after feedback and reflection I have removed a few minutes of this video which was talking about the value of each stop of dynamic range as a percentage of the total available dynamic range. This was a straight mathematical approach to representing ‘stops’ for example 0-10 stops, half a stop is 5% of those 10 stops. This is not the full picture when it comes to dynamic range. Dynamic range and what ‘stops’ represent in light gathering potential is a more complex matter and requires deeper explanation of the actual and real world impacts and would be better for me to represent in a more detailed approach. Thus I will create a follow up video to deeper dive into the topic. The remaining components and sentiment within remain the same and unchanged.
I have the Z6III for a week now and I am loving it! It's an amazing upgrade over my Z6 even though that is still a very capable camera. Haters will hate, but those of us who shoot more than targets know better.
@gosman949 At this point in photography there is little "need" to upgrade. My Z6 has a ton of actuations and is a bit beat up from taking it on hundreds of hiking adventures. I purchased the Z6III because I am excited by it's many new features. I am trying all of the new focusing options right now (3D tracking is working very well for my insect macro photography). I will be trying out the pixel shift shooting next.
@@frabo1000 You may be, other than me, still a user of the Z6. I really hope that the Z7ii upgrades to the iii. I need the high megapixel count as my next camera (no not the heavy Z8 and Z9). Two Z6ers just don't make sense with the same megapixel count.
@@gosman949 I was hoping that the Z6iii would have had a slight MP bump to 30 or 33MP. I like having an all arounder camera. I have been using the Z6iii for 2 weeks now. The Z6iii is solid. I will be selling my Z6II. IT is a good camera but I wanted the focusing to match my Z8 and the Z6iii does. If you are interested in a lightweight, Landscape camera go ahead and get a Z7ii, the pricing is really good right now. IT would be nice to see a Z7iii with a higher than 45MP with Expeed 7 focusing. The Z8 is no heavier than those older Nikon FF DSLRs or My old D500. I sold some nice landscape shots on my D500 with its 20MP sensor(with lower DR even). Client bought the images did not need to know the Tech behind them. The images were properly exposed.
Matt, This video is a major reason why I love your channel and have watched for years now! Your line that has stayed with me about 'use case' is so crucial and can shut out the click bait and added noise of so many! Along with you showing what these tools can do in the field and the results you get is so beneficial and enjoyable! I love Nikon and my Z9 & Z8... so amazing... for my 'use case' it doesn't get any better! Thanks so much!
The internet is mad. Folks are already complaining about the R5 mark II that hasn't even been announced yet. Go out and have fun taking pictures with what you have. If you are a pro...you figured out how to make other tools work in the past before we had the amazing gear we have today.
This is why you’re the best photographer and content creator on UA-cam. You speak the truth and cut through the crap. Great video Matt. I always look forward to these pieces. Happy shooting. 😊
Had both the z6 and Z6ii , now using z9 since release, bought the z6iii 3 months ago found it brilliant for wildlife, street ,architecture and family use. Not seen any problems with noise but I haven’t looked for it. Great video as usual. Now looking forward to Raymond Parker’s vlog, coming soon.😊😊😊
I've purchased the Z6III the day it was announced, to replace my existing Z6II. The reason I chose to update my camera was for the improved auto-focus and fps for wildlife photography. I photograph first thing in the morning and last thing before sunset, in varied lighting conditions and have found it to be an amazing improvement over my Z6II. I still have my Z6II and will use it as a backup body when going out on safari's
Another spot on video Matt! Folks want to blame a hammer for a failed job in being a screw driver. Cameras are tools, with specific strengths and weaknesses, none of which are inherently good or bad, simply they are what they are. I picked up the new Z6iii on launch day, and have been thrilled with it on every level. I kept a Z6 and Z6ii so I could have the whole set :P and am finding the differences between EXPEED 6 and 7 a LARGE differentiator between the three models. Stay real bro, love your POV!
Congrats on the new family member. These tools are outstanding, and to be able to capture images like we see in this video, with ambient street light in the rain …. Wow. Perhaps 1-2 mins setup. Which is mostly setting audio and finding the frame. The camera exposure part and focus mode takes 10 secs or less. Double wow.
I’ve had mine a week now and this is a verrrry capable camera. Nikon has elevated their game to the point that people can no longer complain and they don’t know what to do with themselves. The DR on this camera, is more than fine. Like you eluded too, if you know how to properly use your camera, you will get a great photo in most situations. I can’t wait to put this thing through its paces! Great vid Matt…and in the rain, at 1600 iso! 👏🏻📸😎
Tony Northrup and also Gerald Undone showed that the dynamic range of Z6 III is less then Z6 II. Both said it that this is not an issue for majority of photographers as they do potrait, wedding, event photography. People tend to panicking thinking their camera is not worth the price or faulty. Tony Northrup talked that wildlife photographers are the ones shooting in environments when you don’t control the lightning. He himself does wildlife so her remarks are not for potraits, wedding or event photographers. Wildlife photographers depends on dynamic range they push shadows and highlight regularly. Everyone knows that stacked sensors trade dynamic range for speed. It is nothing new. Nikon chosed to increase the speed of the 24MPx for having high shooting speed, faster AF and uncropped 4K @60p with low rolling shutter for video. From my point of view Nikon did the correct choice for Nikon Z6 III, a general camera. This whole discussion comes simply because people chase the perfect camera, which does not exist, but not chasing the correct camera for their uses. Nikon will introduce a Z7 III camera, not stacked with 60 Mpx, with high dynamic range and no flippy screen for photographers.
I used to admire and listen to Tony Northrup., he was a good photographer., but he seemed to change about 4 years ago., I think probably into a good money maker but, in my opinion, a terrible photographic advisor., it seemed to me like he started just promoting whatever brought in money., he did not seem to be advising what was best for his viewers/ followers, but what was best for himself. By the way I shoot some wildlife and birds in flight too, with a Z9, but I have been using a Z6 III for 3 weeks now with no DR issues at all (or autofocus issues for that matter) it seems to me like the guy is nit-picking Nikon gear for reasons of his own and, in my opinion, misguiding vulnerable people.
as a wildlife shooter, I'm rarely shooting below 800 iso. Birds in flight need that fast shutter speed, and the lenses tend to be slower. The best light and photos come at dawn and dusk, so even less light.
@@starbase218 I agree., but he has a broad audience, therefore he should be subjective across the board, not selective to his own advantage or agenda, that is not helpful or truthful to his audience, I have lost all respect for him.
@@GreatPics His Zf review was horrendous. They had the camera for 9 months and didn't even mention the subject detection in manual focus. The first camera ever to do that. You would think that would be a major point in a review. I'm guessing it's because Nikon hurt their feelings at some point and with that particular feature, why would you ever spend 10K on a Leica FF camera ever again? I have zero respect for Toneh
Those that rely on clickbait titles for revenue, will always find some point to criticise.....thankfully there are other channels, like yours, where sanity prevails. Bravo!
I appreciate the level headed talk about DR Matt. The Z6III is a fantastic camera for its price category and there are no practical reasons for it to be overlooked.
Matt that was a first rate assessment. You make absolute sense and avoid blinding your viewers with technical jargon and charts which can be overdone. Great stuff. Greetings from Ireland and a new subscriber.
1:40 that auto-focus tracking in the dark is great. its micro-adjusting constantly, you can see by the bokeh changing size ever so slightly. impressive.
Thanks Matt, love your honesty and perspectives; the Z6 III is a great photography tool!! I typically shoot at EV +4 with ISO 100 to 400 (non-moving subject), and as you say, exposure and focus are VERY easy with an EVF. 5% DR loss at this ISO doesn't bother me. The Z6 III is my next buy.
Thank you to come back to the basics of photography and why we love capturing moments with whatever camera we have. I have ordered my Z6iii to replace my « old » D610 and I cannot wait to receive it and enjoy taking stunning pictures and videos. Simply Thank You 😃
I find it interesting that all of these "dynamic range" testers don't talk about the photographs they have taken with the Z6 III, or it's ability to take photographs. I don't think they are photographers. They just like to put down new products. To me they are like new car reviewers that don't have a drivers license. I'm enjoying my Z6 III because it's a lot easier to carry around than my Z9, and, therefore, I will capture more "photographs "than I would have without it. Like you said, "telling the story". Always enjoy your perspective Matt. Keep up the great work!
At last the voice of reason not those aiming for click bait. It is a pity that the internet attracts the ‘brand die hards’ who seek to knock other brands. All modern cameras really do an excellent job, as someone who started out with black and white film 50+ years ago we are now in a great time for photography with the huge developments in digital imaging and camera technology. No camera is going to be 100% at all tasks in all lighting situations as we do not need that, different cameras are for users with different requirements. For me as an amateur the Z6iii offers so many improvements from my D500 so I am not really concerned about some minor imperfection on a test chart. The joy of photography is the satisfaction of creating an image to capture a moment and a memory, this is not something that you will ever find on a test chart. Really enjoying your channel as a new subscriber, been following the videos in the run up to the Z6iii release. Keep up the good work.
No "robust comments here". this was just another enjoyable video for me. I enjoy photography and recently started taking photos for a regional magazine in Florida as they needed a local photographer NOW and I was their man. So there were some growing pains over the almost year with my composition for cover shots and the like. Now is when I am realizing about what you are attempting to get across, "telling a story". the editor isn't interested in any specification, just telling the story, plain and simple. It has made me a better photographer than I was shooting high school sports where novices would say" wow that a great shot". I have had to swallow my pride , and push on, which Im glad to say is working for us both. One more thing you might find interesting. Although I own a Z9 and ZF, I used my first mirrorless body, a Z6, for all the work, I'm just used to it, the button placement, more confident . Thanks Matt for all you do for the photographic community.
Well explained and presented. Thank you for sharing these very relevant points. I must agree we humans tends to focus on the specsheet and forgets about telling a story in our photos. I will remember this advice ❤.
Another overblown non-issue fueled by click-baiters. Thank you for dissecting this and doing the basic math that they seem to struggle with. Appreciate your experienced insight and couldn't agree more here. Heading out to shoot now 🙂👏🏻
I'm an enthusiast (unpaid, non-professional) photographer that shoots a little bit of everything: studio macro, astro, moonlit landscapes, portraits, wildlife, spherical panoramas, etc. I sometimes do some pretty wild stuff in post like pushing exposure by 6 EV, significant cropping, etc. The most challenging task for my setup is wildlife photography, especially small birds at long distances in poor light. I have a Z9 (flagship FF) and a D7200 (enthusiast class APS-C), and using the same 600mm lens the Z9 is technically *worse* than the D7200 when shooting small birds that are 70m+ away. The dynamic range is similar but the per-pixel noise is worse on the Z9. Both images are heavily cropped, eg. to ~20MP (from 24MP) on the D7200 and ~16MP (from 46MP) on the Z9 to get the same framing. With that said I would never use the D7200 for this task. Although the images are theoretically worse on the Z9 that doesn't take into account all of the other improvements like IBIS, shot speed, FOCUS, etc. The Z6iii is similar. There *are* tradeoffs with the Z6iii but for 99% of people those tradeoffs are worthwhile. 1/2 stop of DR and higher noise could be a deal breaker for some but the improvements in AF (and a lot of other things) more than make up for it. The noise issue is also partly mitigated by the noise being less patterned.
I can't believe some people are trying to make a big deal about it having half a stop less dynamic range. Something that's barely noticeable in actual use. It really comes across as certain people trying to find any tiny fault with the camera - probably in an attempt to justify why other brands are not offering as good a camera at the same price point...
Yes!! Tony & Chelsea are just mad because they didn't get a pre-production 6III to test in advance so they want to bash Nikon with some useless dynamic range test.. smh!
It depends. I don’t normally carry around graduated ND filters, and so for landscape shots I often have to dodge and burn, as Ansel Adams called it. Because that’s what we’re talking about. And if anyone wants to argue that Ansel Adams didn’t expose correctly… yeah good luck with that. Not saying that I always push 5 stops. But I think sometimes I have pushed shadows quite a lot. But Tony says the Z6 III has a “serious problem”, whereas he has never said that about the R6 II (which tries to hide it) or the RP (where the problem is far bigger).
@@starbase218 I understand where you're coming from, however I'm inclined to say in most situations 0.5 a stop will make very little difference - particularly as that stop is getting into the noise floor. I also think it's worth keeping in mind that photographers like Ansel Adams used B&W film with around 10 stops of latitude in the highlights and very little in the shadows - which the Z6 III far exceeds...
This happens with others cameras brands too like panasonic for example. Panasonic was lacking of autofocus, when that all the other features were impressive, now panasonic has phase detect autofocus that being for the first time in panasonic cameras works really impressive I'd say better than canon cause I've seen some videos comparing each other, but some youtubers still find flaws there and there and in that and etc because that's what they do. I personally think that camera rewiew has to change or this goes always wrong.
Exactly, if you can't get a good exposure with this camera, you suck. Back in the film days, color slide film only had 5 stops of dynamic range and people are now complaining about having 10.46 stops instead of 11.26.
My research suggests that Kodachrome 64, Agfachrome 64 and Ilford FP4 (my favorite) all had about 8 stops of dynamic range. I worked hard to extend my B&W dynamic range with careful developing and printing.
Thank you, Matt. I follow many photographers, and I'm amazed at how good your videos have gotten - you mastered your unique style. You beat any chart with your scene selection. The street light and even a car's highlight behind you was the real test, and the result was amazing! Very clever!
I remember doing clip test on E6 film because it only had 4 or 5 stops of dynamic range. Also did clip tests on b&w (which had a lot more DR like Pan-X) when I pushed it. Remember Ansel Adams Zone System. You can't fool light, true to this day even though sensors have improved a great deal in the past 24 years.
Thanks for being so reasonable. Image quality involves color science and tweaking of sensors too. I love the old Nikon Df sensor (same as D4 if I remember correctly) for that reason. Same as audio: lower distortion is not the goal, audio quality is what you hear. So, the question to me is what the files look like and are they more pleasing to the eye.
Im with you 100%. When the only story you can tell, is about how a camera isn't as good as another for some particular metric. You need to go outside your door and actually use it to tell a worthwhile story.
The negative people will always find something to complain about instead of looking at all the benefits. It's how they roll . Keep keeping it real Matt. Cheers👍
The Z6III is very interesting and it's great to see Nikon continue to bring out very strong camera and lenses but I probably will not get one because I like the 45 MP size sensor whether I need it or not and I love my Z8. Always appreciate your perspective Matt.
@@gosman949 Not really... Especially at 800+ they're identical. The question I ask is, how badly did you have to miss the exposure on your initial shot to notice that DR difference? (6.3 stops according to TN) If you're recovering shadows to the point where you notice a difference, is the shot even usable? IMO the answer is no... for either camera. The fact of the matter is Sensor DR peaked a while ago... and now speed is the appreciable gains lie. If it's a 2/3 stop DR penalty, you're not going to notice that 99.999% of the time, but you will immediately notice the faster sensor / better AF.
This is another Great Video !!!! You make a point that even non-photogs. should be able to understand !!!! The Z6III is a great all-around camera, and I LUV IT !!!! :) There are people who have nothing better to do but to be Haters..... SAD.... But the internet allows, mean n hateful (maybe jealous) people to spew..... Thanks Matt :) :) :)
Matt, I agree with all you stated. I’ve used my Z6iii from the release date and feel that it works perfectly for my needs. I mainly shoot musicians invariably in low light and i am nearly always using high iso, the camera has not let me down with this scenario. occasionally i shoot wildlife in daylight and this has been a dream to use with the 180-600mm nikkor z lens. Paired with the nikon 35mm 1.8 is also joy to use. all in all i’m very pleased with this camera and it is a good companion to the Z8. Thank for your video… I’ll keep an eye out for your future vids…
There are certain You Tubers who hate Nikon. Best to ignore them, but they have millions of followers. When Nikon makes an amazing camera that surpasses their favorite brand they feel the need to work very very very hard to find something wrong with it to ease their cognitive dissonance and convince themselves that their hate of Nikon is still justified.
Thanks Matt. Excellent. I have my own take on this FUD from the usual suspects that I'm saving for my one month assessment. Flak jackets recommended. 😀
As an original z6 user this is a trade I’d definitely make if I was going to upgrade to the z6iii, it’s a complete no brainer. For me the improved auto focus alone is something I will notice every time vs a slight difference in dynamic range when exposure is off.
I know my comment is a week late Matt but I have to add my two pennyworth... This Video is BRILLIANT. The one thing I love about your videos Matt is you tell it like it is. DON'T EVER CHANGE !!! To all the Comparison Chart only critics, all the Nikon Knockers, and 99% of the Moan and Groan brigade... Why not go out and Buy a Z6 III or, if you can't afford it, and I suspect there are many, Hire one for a week! And Use the thing ! (I had to edit those last 4 words above). Photography is about what the finished image looks like, regardless of camera or lens you use. Maybe think of it this way... William Shakespeare was one of the best writers who ever lived on this Earth. Did anyone ever ask Shakespeare what sort of Pen he used ? I think not.
Gratitude for speaking on this trend in the discussion. Better to discuss a tangible camera and lens in hand than speak on rumored flagship models that will now not be available, IN HAND, for two Summer Olympiads?! From an engineer that is enjoying the lessons I am learning using a z 30 on my Sirui 24mm f/2.8 1.33 [using the manual mode that Hudson Henry mentioned for the zF?] and the NIKKOR 40mm f/2.
Hello Matt, thank you for your helpful video. I share your views, but I also like to deal with criticism. Regarding opinions on the tests: I find it disadvantageous to pit real-world photography and laboratory tests against each other. Both methods have their pros and cons depending on the subject matter, and they can be useful based on personal priorities. Fortunately, everyone is free to disregard one of the two methods, perhaps to ignore certain facts or because it is genuinely irrelevant to their personal priorities. However, even in the latter case, I see no reason to downplay an existing problem. Regarding the -5 stops: Of course, in practice, one doesn't intentionally shoot at -5EV. But this is ultimately just to illustrate how the 100% view is used to compare, for example, chromatic aberrations. I wouldn't gain real insights about a car's quality from a crash test at only 10 mph either. In daylight with high dynamic range, where BKT isn't possible, I often exceed +2EV when locally brightening dark areas. Sure, maybe this only happens in 5 out of 100 shots, but if the photographer is then unhappy with the result, it doesn't help him that the autofocus and many other features of the Z6iii are three times better. Regarding Tony: Yes, one has to be careful that a test isn't deliberately focused only on the one weakness of the newer product. (It's no secret that, for example, in lens flare comparisons, one might specifically choose the one unfavorable angle of the new lens to make it look bad. Hence, counter-tests are necessary that consider all angles). Currently, however, I find more videos that support Tony's observations. The noise comparisons I've seen are about -0.66 EV worse than the Z6ii. Since I already own nine Z lenses and would like to stay with Nikon for other reasons, I still have some hope that the issue can be mitigated with a firmware update.
I did some tests today, and it’s not even worth rushing out the video on my channel lol under reasonable conditions it’s seriously a nothing sandwich. No one makes a 7 stops screw up.
J'ai le mien depuis 2 semaines et j'ai fait des photos de concerts dans des conditions difficiles. Je n'ai jamais eu de problème de plage dynamique de bruit ou autre. Je trouve au contraire que par rapport au Z6II il offre plus de potentiel et globalement de meilleurs résultats. Il faudrait que les détracteurs apprennent avant tout à faire des photos plutôt que de dénigrer inutilement un matériel qui dans de bonnes conditions d'utilisation donne d'excellents résultats.
Great perspective. For someone who already owns a Z8 for sports and Landscapes and a Z6ii for portability and low light fun pictures and who never does video, I'm waiting until my Z6ii dies before I fork over more money on a Z6iii. You've helped me see that telling a story is more important than technical aspects. If I think 8 stop IBIS in low light will help tell a story, I will consider the Z6iii or maybe the future Z6iv. I'm going to FOCUS (pun intended) on getting lenses to help me tell that story. I've never owned a 1.2 lens. The 135 f/1.8 also interests me. In the old days, we all put our money in great glass and solid bodies, like the Nikon F2, we were depending on Kodak, Agfa and Fuji to help us with resolution. I realize now that the film has been replaced by sensor selection in the Body that fits us. Your "Story Telling" comment hits home. Thanks!!!
I’ve tried the camera and it’s brilliant! My price point is more in 2k-2.2k range. Wish Nikon had a cheaper model for much newer, yet serious and committed people
So l in the Canon system but before the dynamic range issues came up l was considering getting a Z6iii with a 180/600mm & after the dynamic range issues came up l am still considering getting a Z6iii & 180/600mm.😃
First of all Yeah... I agree with you. Storytelling is key. Without that you've got nothing. That's the difference between a beautiful (but insignificant) shot and a great one. Secondly, I've watched a test and the Z63 was actually performing better than the predecessor (I'm talking about the sensor obviously). Thirdly, if anyone has watched Sony&honey's test well you should know that: he took a photo of a photo but the original shot was done on a Canon camera (notoriously bad for dynamic range) and it's probably over a 10 year old shot! And then he complains that the Z63 isn't doing 'that well'? Was he kidding us or what? I'm sure that no one is going off by 4 or 5 stops (as if he/she does, change job mate!). Well put Matt. - ha... and yes, take advantage of the Z8 sale although the Z63 has indeed A LOT going for herself!
Thanks Matt, 👍👏 brilliant video, I hooked up on a Z6 III page on Facebook, and all I see is charts & comments ripping apart a camera’s ability. I am from the film days too (similar age I reckon (56) ), I’d like to see these people’s reactions to pushing an Ilford Delta 3200 to 6400…🙀 Must have taken some restraint to be that polite for YT…🤣👍
A nice chat with a cinematic ending, bravo Matt! None of the DR wingers would be out in that rain... I love the end music, but when the first note came in, my first thought was, that sounds big, is he going to move away from the road, LOL.
Outstanding. The technonerds drank the Kool-Aid. Any photographer that worked in the film era knows that digital has eliminated sooo many constraints. In my photography, design of a grayscale image tells a story.
The DR hit job is just another opportunity to create negative content. It creates engagement and gives non photographers a way to satiate their egos since they can't compete in a discussion of output. The Nikon D4, D5, D6 all have lower dynamic range than the Z6 III. The Canon flagship 1D X line all have lower dynamic range, until you get to the 1D X MK III which has baked in noise reduction, similar to many of their mirrorless line of cameras. If you're baking in noise reduction to increase your DR, then we're no longer comparing apples to apples. The point, the difference is so minute that it's a non factor when it comes to the final product. I read a comment below that said much of this is born from the desire to have a perfect camera. There's some truth to that since every spec and every feature will be scrutinized and if it's not leading the industry, then it can't be the perfect camera. The problem with this is that there are always tradeoffs which is why there are so many options to choose from. Ironically, when perfection is near, the argument then switches to one of size and weight. At the end of the day (hate this phrase) nobody really wants a perfect camera as so much of the fun is in the chase, the experimentation and the collecting. ✌
Funny thing is I know and see the baked in noise reduction and people who do reviews and so on, don't mention and account for it. It's simple, higher speed (frames per second or sensor read speed) results in less dynamic range and baked in noise reduction, if you want to help users do less steps or just use it for marketing and make your product look better. I prefer to remove noise myself, it gives me more "freedom/choice" and to see the real performance. Sadly it's becoming less common.
Matt, how does the dynamic range of the viewing medium such as computer screen, tv screen, photographic print paper, photographic inkjet or laser printer impact the effect the camera's dynamic range has on the viewer's experience? I really liked this video, but I think we've given up our love of dynamic range by moving to digital media. The same is true for music, I believe. We've given up our audio reproductive range for the convenience of listening to digital files rather than analog reproduction and rather than live music. Years ago I purchased some Zone 6 prints to have an easy way to appreciate excellent B&W print dynamic range. How can I do that today in the color digital world?
Art of photography can be done with many types of equipment. I think what Nikon Z cameras can do is inspiring. I use Nikon Z 5 and want a new Nikon Z cameras but until I can get one, I'm using the best tool available. Z 6 III would be better in every way I think as you pointed out In real usage. I don't understand math so well and charts are not so inspiring to read. :)
My personal take on the Z6 series (and the Zf) is this: if you need maximum DR, get the Z6 II or Zf (same sensor, but the Zf has faster AF). If you need the best AF for $2500, you'll probably have to sacrifice a bit and get a Z6 III. If you can live with the form factor and lack of extended video recording, the Zf is a good compromise between AF performance and image quality (and one reason I decided to just keep my Zf and not bother with a Z6 III myself--it's a well rounded camera from an IQ and AF performance standpoint, although the design is perhaps not to everyone's taste being a retro design). But if you look past that or can get over it, then it can be a good bargain that falls pretty much between a Z6 II and Z6 III in terms of performance and cost. Yes the Z6 III may have some more noise at higher ISOs and may have lower DR, but you're trading that off for a massive improvement in AF over the Z6 II, so you have to weigh those out. There is no real "right or wrong" answer here -- it's what do you need (what priorities do you have for features), and what are you willing to compromise on?
Hi Matt, Edward here. Nice to meet you on the Melbourne Z6III hands on session last Friday. Pity that I do not have the time to stay till the end. Since it is on the topic on dynamic range. How is this compared to Z6? I moved to Z6 last year from D610. I found that the dynamic range has slight improvement but not by a lot. But the focusing capability in darker environment is far better than D610. So I assume that the -10EV is talking about focus capability and not the dynamic range.
I’m not even that mad about Northrup judging the Z6 III so harshly. I mean, I don’t agree, but if that’s how he judges cameras, ok, fine. However the R6 II applies noise reduction at its lowest ISO settings, artificially increasing the DR score. And the RP has far worse dynamic range than the Z6 III anyway. But I don’t remember him making a similar video about those cameras. Having said that, you made a video about the Z6 III being a stop better than the Z6 II for high ISO performance. That has turned out to be false as well. But in that case, the 1 stop difference in noise performance did seem to matter to you. Yet a 1/2-3/4 stop difference in DR does not. One thing this whole discussion has done for me btw, is make clear how DR is different and connected to high ISO performance. It has been quite insightful.
Oh for everyone else: he asked the same when I raised this point in a comment to Tony's video. I found the measurements on the website that Tony actually uses in his video, and I told him that. But apparently that's not enough. He dismissed it as "some website", when Tony's whole video was triggered by data from that website. So... yeah. Draw your own conclusions I'd say.
I think the Z6III is a great camera and if I had the money I would definitely buy it. I prefer that "sweet spot" of 24MP, though I understand other people want different things from their cameras than I do.
Hi Matt agree with you 110%, I commented on this Dynamic Range Fiasco on my live stream last night and talked about dynamic range quite a bit and how you make adjustments within your camera to compensate if needed since their are cameras that have much lower dynamic range that produce great results. My guests who have decades of experience (several professional photographers) also commented and provided insightful commentary. If all one has to do is be a techie nerd (which I can be to a certain extent) and then weaponize results that are basically inconsequential in the real world, you are doing a dis-service to the photographic community. Go out and shoot and enjoy your tools and improve your craft, if you just watch all the videos on this subject you are not becoming a better photographer, you are hurting the industry implying camera XYZ is not good enough which is unfortunate because some believe your BS and miss out on buying a camera that many say is Best in Class. Look at those that are displaying photo's from the camera which speak much louder that anything else. Take care Matt and thanks. - Jeff
Amazing how all these new photographers are professionals now on what makes a great image. Award winning photos have been taken with much, much less. Choose a camera and system that is comfortable for you and work on taking great photos. Literally stop complaining about the gear because it’s the best it’s ever been!
I still shoot film, for fun, regularly. Every time I do, I am reminder how amazing every single modern camera is today. This DR “issue” in the Z6III is nothing of concern in your actual use of the machine. I am not buying one, at least for now, because I love my Zf/Zfc/Z7II combo for my amateur work. I still regularly create lovely images with a D200, D300, D700….being there, nice light, composition and story telling are, by far, the more important factors on creating good photographic art!
Thanks Matt. It is amazing how the UA-camrs are ripping the R5 Mark II now. They go from carcass to carcass striving for relevancy. I appreciate your reality based comments.
Thanks Matt. IF I had the cash, I would buy the Z6iii tomorrow. I love shooting in low light and often use ISOs around 2000 -4000 on my Z6. Since the DR reduction is at ISOs lower than this, its not an issue for me. Yes it would be good to have slightly better DR at base ISO but how much would that have added to the price? I get the idea that some people want $10k+ specs for not much money. As Mr Irwin always stresses, it's all about use case. And we thpught the camera wars were over. SIGH
Matt, I totally agree with you. These complainers remind me of the DPR wingers: "My camera weighs weighs 322grams, the new version is 328grams! It's too heavy!" Take this lot back to film, ... all manual. They would probanly take up knitting! (Light weight needles of course) Back to a bit of serious, .... I have never seen complainers post their work? Seems to me just another branch of the gossip club. They are found in every activity without exception. I wouldn't waste my time Matt. Clearly they are Not photographers! Pictcha takers at best where RAW is only discussed in terms of the nude beach?
I seems to me, that i have seen every Story 10 times before. What changes is the technical quality. So the challenge is to find/create a new story and nobody will care about technical perfection. If you an existing product against an imaginary perfect one, it will loose all time. Compare it against to what you have or need and then you can decide if its a winner or not.
Love your stuff!! Really appreciate your honesty. I wanted to express something here. All rounder camera. 24mpx vs 45mpx. I don’t shoot professionally, but I do want to be able to print up to 24,32, maybe even 48x48. And as far as DR, can and will the Z6iii be ok for or as an “all rounder” camera? Is there a noticeable difference for folks that don’t pixel peep? Say, if I took some landscape photos and sold it to the general public at a tourist spot. I would assume most, if not all of them wouldn’t pixel peep, but would there be a “man, these pictures are as crisp and detailed as the ones in that gallery we just went to. Just curious on your thoughts. I had the Zf, traded it for the z6iii for ergonomics. I love landscape and I love wildlife, but I do shoot landscape more often.
I have a z6 II and a z8. I'm covered using either camera. But I am considering seeking my z6 II next year and getting the z6 III. The z6 II is lighter and has smaller files. I mostly use it for milky way and street photography. It was my all rounder until I got the z8. The ISO performance was what I was more concerned with because of high ISO for astro photos. I shoot at ISO 6400 a lot. But it sounds like it preforms the same as the z6 II at that range. I have the z8 for landscape, birds and action. I like my z6 II but I'm not fond of the small grip. And I would like a camera with a fully articulating screen. I have a Canon T6s that has one. I have a question for you about shooting film. I just bought a Canon AE-1 back in April. Explain what you mean about shooting at a higher ISO. I know you can pull or push film on the exposure in the dark room. I just don't understand what you mean by shooting at a higher ISO. Do you mean adjusting the ISO dial to what you need regardless of the film speed? I know seeing the ISO has something to do with the light meter and how it calculates with the aperture and shutter speed. And wouldn't you have to shoot the whole roll of film the same way before telling them to push it 1 or 2 stops? I grew up with point and shoot 110 and 35mm cameras. I never had to worry about the settings with those cameras.
People love to scream fire in the theatre on UA-cam to get attention and views. I much prefer your real-world approach where you use the gear and show us what amazing results it can produce. It really just blows the nit-picking chart dwellers out of the water.
The difference I see in the DR on the charts is not significant anyway, so I don’t know what the fuss is about. The measurebators such as horsey shacky and others just have a bit too much time on their hands. Bottom line is, are you shooting for charts or are you shooting for art anyway? I’m interested in the art of photography. I DO like to know the specs of the camera before I buy it, but the specs don’t always equate to the best photos. You need ‘enough’ specs to get great files to work with, but the sensors in the latest cameras are all enough to create magical images, if you can capture it. Or you can shoot birds at the bird feeder all day and post that on dpreview, if that’s your thing. Anyway, the DR in the Z6 III is not much different than the II and it’s definitely enough to get fantastic images.
Thanks for calling this "controversy" out for what is. A whole bunch of nothing. The Z6iii is a prosumer/advanced amateur level camera with lot of pro level abilities.for it's cost it is outstanding. No one in its target audience is going to look at an image and think 'this would be a great photo if it had just a little more dynamic range'. Like you said Matt, it's all about the story. Story telling, capturing emotion, is a photographer skill, not a camera attribute. So all this noise about slightly less dynamic range is meaningless.
I guess it is about expectations. Everyone expected the camera to be a lowlight beast, especially since it has yet another iteration of 24MP. Now don't get me wrong, I don't say, that we should expect this. And of course you are right: photography is not about half a stop of dr, but still: wouldn't we love it, if it was the other way rounf?
it's the result of the doing of the brands themselves, namely their marketing. you can't go around convincing people about each extra stop of dynamic range for 2 decades and then take it away from them and be like 'you see, its fine, you don't need all that dynamic range you paid a car worth of price in camera gear for during the recent years leading up until now' . also while it's a good analogy with breaking things till they fail - doing DR comparisons isn't breaking things, it's comparing what we got new to what have existed and where it fits into the picture, how does it satisfy the expectations based on competition and market's (marketed) sentiment. it can't be both ways - everyone pushing for new better faster and then going back to 'well it takes nice photos anyway' mindset when things don't work out that great .nobody is spending 3k for that. also if we start playing with 'good enough' - i need FF to get the dynamic range cuz it's super important but then I don't need THIS much of dynamic range. get an mft then.
Ex UA-camr Daniel Milnor once spoke three words and often repeated them,which I try to live by every time I pick up one of my cameras. “Light, timing and composition” all that matters.
I hope the Z7iii, when/if it comes, will be a photo centric camera with no stacking sensor. So basically the Z7ii with better autofocus and the same good video quality like Z8. I know there will be rolling shutter but the z7 must differentiate from the z8.
I think we will see a price drop (or extended sale) of the Z6III within the first 12-18 months. The Z8 has now been on sale for several weeks in the US for $3499. I’m not in any rush so will wait, and see if Nikon releases anything else in that period I may even prefer - Z5II or Z50II (Z80?)..
Dear Viewers, after feedback and reflection I have removed a few minutes of this video which was talking about the value of each stop of dynamic range as a percentage of the total available dynamic range. This was a straight mathematical approach to representing ‘stops’ for example 0-10 stops, half a stop is 5% of those 10 stops. This is not the full picture when it comes to dynamic range. Dynamic range and what ‘stops’ represent in light gathering potential is a more complex matter and requires deeper explanation of the actual and real world impacts and would be better for me to represent in a more detailed approach. Thus I will create a follow up video to deeper dive into the topic. The remaining components and sentiment within remain the same and unchanged.
I have the Z6III for a week now and I am loving it! It's an amazing upgrade over my Z6 even though that is still a very capable camera.
Haters will hate, but those of us who shoot more than targets know better.
I have the Z6 too and its dynamic range is better than the Z6iii. So, for landscapes and still shots, why upgrade?
@@gosman949Only if you need such subject tracking and video needs.😊
@gosman949 At this point in photography there is little "need" to upgrade. My Z6 has a ton of actuations and is a bit beat up from taking it on hundreds of hiking adventures. I purchased the Z6III because I am excited by it's many new features. I am trying all of the new focusing options right now (3D tracking is working very well for my insect macro photography). I will be trying out the pixel shift shooting next.
@@frabo1000 You may be, other than me, still a user of the Z6. I really hope that the Z7ii upgrades to the iii. I need the high megapixel count as my next camera (no not the heavy Z8 and Z9). Two Z6ers just don't make sense with the same megapixel count.
@@gosman949 I was hoping that the Z6iii would have had a slight MP bump to 30 or 33MP. I like having an all arounder camera. I have been using the Z6iii for 2 weeks now. The Z6iii is solid. I will be selling my Z6II. IT is a good camera but I wanted the focusing to match my Z8 and the Z6iii does.
If you are interested in a lightweight, Landscape camera go ahead and get a Z7ii, the pricing is really good right now. IT would be nice to see a Z7iii with a higher than 45MP with Expeed 7 focusing.
The Z8 is no heavier than those older Nikon FF DSLRs or My old D500. I sold some nice landscape shots on my D500 with its 20MP sensor(with lower DR even). Client bought the images did not need to know the Tech behind them. The images were properly exposed.
Matt, This video is a major reason why I love your channel and have watched for years now! Your line that has stayed with me about 'use case' is so crucial and can shut out the click bait and added noise of so many! Along with you showing what these tools can do in the field and the results you get is so beneficial and enjoyable! I love Nikon and my Z9 & Z8... so amazing... for my 'use case' it doesn't get any better! Thanks so much!
Thanks Sandra. 😀 what are some of your favourite lenses these days?
@@MattIrwinPhotography You're welcome! The list is long, but some of my favorites are the Z 24-70 F4, 24-120, 105 & 100-400.
The internet is mad. Folks are already complaining about the R5 mark II that hasn't even been announced yet. Go out and have fun taking pictures with what you have. If you are a pro...you figured out how to make other tools work in the past before we had the amazing gear we have today.
This is why you’re the best photographer and content creator on UA-cam. You speak the truth and cut through the crap. Great video Matt. I always look forward to these pieces. Happy shooting. 😊
Cheers Joe.
Had both the z6 and Z6ii , now using z9 since release, bought the z6iii 3 months ago found it brilliant for wildlife, street ,architecture and family use. Not seen any problems with noise but I haven’t looked for it. Great video as usual. Now looking forward to Raymond Parker’s vlog, coming soon.😊😊😊
I've purchased the Z6III the day it was announced, to replace my existing Z6II. The reason I chose to update my camera was for the improved auto-focus and fps for wildlife photography. I photograph first thing in the morning and last thing before sunset, in varied lighting conditions and have found it to be an amazing improvement over my Z6II. I still have my Z6II and will use it as a backup body when going out on safari's
Another spot on video Matt! Folks want to blame a hammer for a failed job in being a screw driver. Cameras are tools, with specific strengths and weaknesses, none of which are inherently good or bad, simply they are what they are. I picked up the new Z6iii on launch day, and have been thrilled with it on every level. I kept a Z6 and Z6ii so I could have the whole set :P and am finding the differences between EXPEED 6 and 7 a LARGE differentiator between the three models. Stay real bro, love your POV!
Congrats on the new family member. These tools are outstanding, and to be able to capture images like we see in this video, with ambient street light in the rain …. Wow. Perhaps 1-2 mins setup. Which is mostly setting audio and finding the frame. The camera exposure part and focus mode takes 10 secs or less. Double wow.
I’ve had mine a week now and this is a verrrry capable camera. Nikon has elevated their game to the point that people can no longer complain and they don’t know what to do with themselves.
The DR on this camera, is more than fine.
Like you eluded too, if you know how to properly use your camera, you will get a great photo in most situations.
I can’t wait to put this thing through its paces! Great vid Matt…and in the rain, at 1600 iso! 👏🏻📸😎
My happy place. ⛈️
Tony Northrup and also Gerald Undone showed that the dynamic range of Z6 III is less then Z6 II. Both said it that this is not an issue for majority of photographers as they do potrait, wedding, event photography. People tend to panicking thinking their camera is not worth the price or faulty.
Tony Northrup talked that wildlife photographers are the ones shooting in environments when you don’t control the lightning. He himself does wildlife so her remarks are not for potraits, wedding or event photographers. Wildlife photographers depends on dynamic range they push shadows and highlight regularly.
Everyone knows that stacked sensors trade dynamic range for speed. It is nothing new. Nikon chosed to increase the speed of the 24MPx for having high shooting speed, faster AF and uncropped 4K @60p with low rolling shutter for video. From my point of view Nikon did the correct choice for Nikon Z6 III, a general camera.
This whole discussion comes simply because people chase the perfect camera, which does not exist, but not chasing the correct camera for their uses.
Nikon will introduce a Z7 III camera, not stacked with 60 Mpx, with high dynamic range and no flippy screen for photographers.
I used to admire and listen to Tony Northrup., he was a good photographer., but he seemed to change about 4 years ago., I think probably into a good money maker but, in my opinion, a terrible photographic advisor., it seemed to me like he started just promoting whatever brought in money., he did not seem to be advising what was best for his viewers/ followers, but what was best for himself. By the way I shoot some wildlife and birds in flight too, with a Z9, but I have been using a Z6 III for 3 weeks now with no DR issues at all (or autofocus issues for that matter) it seems to me like the guy is nit-picking Nikon gear for reasons of his own and, in my opinion, misguiding vulnerable people.
as a wildlife shooter, I'm rarely shooting below 800 iso. Birds in flight need that fast shutter speed, and the lenses tend to be slower. The best light and photos come at dawn and dusk, so even less light.
@@GreatPics He just seems very selective, I think, in his concerns. Which over the last years seems to always turn out bad for Nikon.
@@starbase218 I agree., but he has a broad audience, therefore he should be subjective across the board, not selective to his own advantage or agenda, that is not helpful or truthful to his audience, I have lost all respect for him.
@@GreatPics His Zf review was horrendous. They had the camera for 9 months and didn't even mention the subject detection in manual focus. The first camera ever to do that. You would think that would be a major point in a review. I'm guessing it's because Nikon hurt their feelings at some point and with that particular feature, why would you ever spend 10K on a Leica FF camera ever again? I have zero respect for Toneh
Those that rely on clickbait titles for revenue, will always find some point to criticise.....thankfully there are other channels, like yours, where sanity prevails. Bravo!
I appreciate the level headed talk about DR Matt. The Z6III is a fantastic camera for its price category and there are no practical reasons for it to be overlooked.
Good perspective and thoughts Matt, .... As always.
Matt that was a first rate assessment. You make absolute sense and avoid blinding your viewers with technical jargon and charts which can be overdone. Great stuff. Greetings from Ireland and a new subscriber.
1:40 that auto-focus tracking in the dark is great. its micro-adjusting constantly, you can see by the bokeh changing size ever so slightly. impressive.
Thanks Matt, love your honesty and perspectives; the Z6 III is a great photography tool!! I typically shoot at EV +4 with ISO 100 to 400 (non-moving subject), and as you say, exposure and focus are VERY easy with an EVF. 5% DR loss at this ISO doesn't bother me. The Z6 III is my next buy.
Thank you to come back to the basics of photography and why we love capturing moments with whatever camera we have. I have ordered my Z6iii to replace my « old » D610 and I cannot wait to receive it and enjoy taking stunning pictures and videos. Simply Thank You 😃
100% right. Thanks for keeping things in perspective.
I find it interesting that all of these "dynamic range" testers don't talk about the photographs they have taken with the Z6 III, or it's ability to take photographs. I don't think they are photographers. They just like to put down new products. To me they are like new car reviewers that don't have a drivers license. I'm enjoying my Z6 III because it's a lot easier to carry around than my Z9, and, therefore, I will capture more "photographs "than I would have without it. Like you said, "telling the story". Always enjoy your perspective Matt. Keep up the great work!
At last the voice of reason not those aiming for click bait.
It is a pity that the internet attracts the ‘brand die hards’ who seek to knock other brands.
All modern cameras really do an excellent job, as someone who started out with black and white film 50+ years ago we are now in a great time for photography with the huge developments in digital imaging and camera technology.
No camera is going to be 100% at all tasks in all lighting situations as we do not need that, different cameras are for users with different requirements.
For me as an amateur the Z6iii offers so many improvements from my D500 so I am not really concerned about some minor imperfection on a test chart.
The joy of photography is the satisfaction of creating an image to capture a moment and a memory, this is not something that you will ever find on a test chart.
Really enjoying your channel as a new subscriber, been following the videos in the run up to the Z6iii release. Keep up the good work.
No "robust comments here". this was just another enjoyable video for me. I enjoy photography and recently started taking photos for a regional magazine in Florida as they needed a local photographer NOW and I was their man. So there were some growing pains over the almost year with my composition for cover shots and the like. Now is when I am realizing about what you are attempting to get across, "telling a story". the editor isn't interested in any specification, just telling the story, plain and simple. It has made me a better photographer than I was shooting high school sports where novices would say" wow that a great shot". I have had to swallow my pride , and push on, which Im glad to say is working for us both. One more thing you might find interesting. Although I own a Z9 and ZF, I used my first mirrorless body, a Z6, for all the work, I'm just used to it, the button placement, more confident . Thanks Matt for all you do for the photographic community.
Well explained and presented. Thank you for sharing these very relevant points. I must agree we humans tends to focus on the specsheet and forgets about telling a story in our photos. I will remember this advice ❤.
The internet/ UA-cam :- those who can not do. Teach ,those who can not teach . criticise 😁 Thanks Matt. Voice of
reason
Another overblown non-issue fueled by click-baiters. Thank you for dissecting this and doing the basic math that they seem to struggle with. Appreciate your experienced insight and couldn't agree more here. Heading out to shoot now 🙂👏🏻
Great Matt, I like your real world approach and the photos and videos you show, rather than endless charts and tests.
I'm an enthusiast (unpaid, non-professional) photographer that shoots a little bit of everything: studio macro, astro, moonlit landscapes, portraits, wildlife, spherical panoramas, etc. I sometimes do some pretty wild stuff in post like pushing exposure by 6 EV, significant cropping, etc. The most challenging task for my setup is wildlife photography, especially small birds at long distances in poor light. I have a Z9 (flagship FF) and a D7200 (enthusiast class APS-C), and using the same 600mm lens the Z9 is technically *worse* than the D7200 when shooting small birds that are 70m+ away. The dynamic range is similar but the per-pixel noise is worse on the Z9. Both images are heavily cropped, eg. to ~20MP (from 24MP) on the D7200 and ~16MP (from 46MP) on the Z9 to get the same framing. With that said I would never use the D7200 for this task. Although the images are theoretically worse on the Z9 that doesn't take into account all of the other improvements like IBIS, shot speed, FOCUS, etc.
The Z6iii is similar. There *are* tradeoffs with the Z6iii but for 99% of people those tradeoffs are worthwhile. 1/2 stop of DR and higher noise could be a deal breaker for some but the improvements in AF (and a lot of other things) more than make up for it. The noise issue is also partly mitigated by the noise being less patterned.
I can't believe some people are trying to make a big deal about it having half a stop less dynamic range. Something that's barely noticeable in actual use.
It really comes across as certain people trying to find any tiny fault with the camera - probably in an attempt to justify why other brands are not offering as good a camera at the same price point...
Yes!! Tony & Chelsea are just mad because they didn't get a pre-production 6III to test in advance so they want to bash Nikon with some useless dynamic range test.. smh!
It depends. I don’t normally carry around graduated ND filters, and so for landscape shots I often have to dodge and burn, as Ansel Adams called it. Because that’s what we’re talking about. And if anyone wants to argue that Ansel Adams didn’t expose correctly… yeah good luck with that. Not saying that I always push 5 stops. But I think sometimes I have pushed shadows quite a lot.
But Tony says the Z6 III has a “serious problem”, whereas he has never said that about the R6 II (which tries to hide it) or the RP (where the problem is far bigger).
@@starbase218 I understand where you're coming from, however I'm inclined to say in most situations 0.5 a stop will make very little difference - particularly as that stop is getting into the noise floor.
I also think it's worth keeping in mind that photographers like Ansel Adams used B&W film with around 10 stops of latitude in the highlights and very little in the shadows - which the Z6 III far exceeds...
So how it that any different then the typical Nikon user.
This happens with others cameras brands too like panasonic for example. Panasonic was lacking of autofocus, when that all the other features were impressive, now panasonic has phase detect autofocus that being for the first time in panasonic cameras works really impressive I'd say better than canon cause I've seen some videos comparing each other, but some youtubers still find flaws there and there and in that and etc because that's what they do. I personally think that camera rewiew has to change or this goes always wrong.
Exactly, if you can't get a good exposure with this camera, you suck. Back in the film days, color slide film only had 5 stops of dynamic range and people are now complaining about having 10.46 stops instead of 11.26.
Agreed!
My research suggests that Kodachrome 64, Agfachrome 64 and Ilford FP4 (my favorite) all had about 8 stops of dynamic range. I worked hard to extend my B&W dynamic range with careful developing and printing.
@@bmwohl It depends on the film. Velvia is 4 or 5 stops. Kodachrome is better for sure.
That was the real "know how" test back in the day: slides. Half stop error and the shot would never look the same
Thank you, Matt. I follow many photographers, and I'm amazed at how good your videos have gotten - you mastered your unique style. You beat any chart with your scene selection. The street light and even a car's highlight behind you was the real test, and the result was amazing! Very clever!
I remember doing clip test on E6 film because it only had 4 or 5 stops of dynamic range. Also did clip tests on b&w (which had a lot more DR like Pan-X) when I pushed it. Remember Ansel Adams Zone System. You can't fool light, true to this day even though sensors have improved a great deal in the past 24 years.
I`m really happy about it now!
I agree 350% with your statement! I‘m just waiting for a price drop and the Z6 III will succeed my Z6 II.
This camera is going to be legendary and will be talking about it. 20 years down the road.
Thanks for being so reasonable. Image quality involves color science and tweaking of sensors too. I love the old Nikon Df sensor (same as D4 if I remember correctly) for that reason. Same as audio: lower distortion is not the goal, audio quality is what you hear. So, the question to me is what the files look like and are they more pleasing to the eye.
Im with you 100%. When the only story you can tell, is about how a camera isn't as good as another for some particular metric. You need to go outside your door and actually use it to tell a worthwhile story.
The negative people will always find something to complain about instead of looking at all the benefits. It's how they roll . Keep keeping it real Matt. Cheers👍
The Z6III is very interesting and it's great to see Nikon continue to bring out very strong camera and lenses but
I probably will not get one because I like the 45 MP size sensor whether I need it or not and I love my Z8.
Always appreciate your perspective Matt.
i have z6iii and i loved it
Tony N did all the UA-camrs a favor by creating a bunch of controversy over Dynamic Range. But it’s all a huge nothingburger of a story.
…and then TN turns around and says this is one of his favourite cameras of all time.
it is if your 7-year-old Z6 has better dynamic range than the Z6iii!!
@@gosman949 Not really... Especially at 800+ they're identical. The question I ask is, how badly did you have to miss the exposure on your initial shot to notice that DR difference? (6.3 stops according to TN) If you're recovering shadows to the point where you notice a difference, is the shot even usable? IMO the answer is no... for either camera.
The fact of the matter is Sensor DR peaked a while ago... and now speed is the appreciable gains lie. If it's a 2/3 stop DR penalty, you're not going to notice that 99.999% of the time, but you will immediately notice the faster sensor / better AF.
you mean Sony Northrup
@@SteveGong 😂😂
This is another Great Video !!!! You make a point that even non-photogs. should be able to understand !!!! The Z6III is a great all-around camera, and I LUV IT !!!! :) There are people who have nothing better to do but to be Haters..... SAD.... But the internet allows, mean n hateful (maybe jealous) people to spew..... Thanks Matt :) :) :)
Matt, I agree with all you stated. I’ve used my Z6iii from the release date and feel that it works perfectly for my needs. I mainly shoot musicians invariably in low light and i am nearly always using high iso, the camera has not let me down with this scenario. occasionally i shoot wildlife in daylight and this has been a dream to use with the 180-600mm nikkor z lens. Paired with the nikon 35mm 1.8 is also joy to use. all in all i’m very pleased with this camera and it is a good companion to the Z8. Thank for your video… I’ll keep an eye out for your future vids…
So well said. Tell the story. Worry about that first. Thanks Matt!❤
There are certain You Tubers who hate Nikon. Best to ignore them, but they have millions of followers. When Nikon makes an amazing camera that surpasses their favorite brand they feel the need to work very very very hard to find something wrong with it to ease their cognitive dissonance and convince themselves that their hate of Nikon is still justified.
Great video, a practical opinion on a non problem.
I agree with this vid... some people just like moving the goal post when it comes to Nikon.
Again Awesome Research & Development Matt!! Preach/Teach Deep Truth Bro!!
That was a great movie like video - especially the ending!
I always like your story telling. Great story telling in any gears.
Great talk Matt. right on the spot.
Thanks Matt. Excellent. I have my own take on this FUD from the usual suspects that I'm saving for my one month assessment. Flak jackets recommended. 😀
Love it. Can’t wait.
As an original z6 user this is a trade I’d definitely make if I was going to upgrade to the z6iii, it’s a complete no brainer. For me the improved auto focus alone is something I will notice every time vs a slight difference in dynamic range when exposure is off.
I know my comment is a week late Matt but I have to add my two pennyworth...
This Video is BRILLIANT.
The one thing I love about your videos Matt is you tell it like it is. DON'T EVER CHANGE !!!
To all the Comparison Chart only critics, all the Nikon Knockers, and 99% of the Moan and Groan brigade...
Why not go out and Buy a Z6 III or, if you can't afford it, and I suspect there are many,
Hire one for a week! And Use the thing !
(I had to edit those last 4 words above).
Photography is about what the finished image looks like, regardless of camera or lens you use.
Maybe think of it this way...
William Shakespeare was one of the best writers who ever lived on this Earth.
Did anyone ever ask Shakespeare what sort of Pen he used ? I think not.
Gratitude for speaking on this trend in the discussion. Better to discuss a tangible camera and lens in hand than speak on rumored flagship models that will now not be available, IN HAND, for two Summer Olympiads?! From an engineer that is enjoying the lessons I am learning using a z 30 on my Sirui 24mm f/2.8 1.33 [using the manual mode that Hudson Henry mentioned for the zF?] and the NIKKOR 40mm f/2.
Well said Matt. Another great video
An excellent summary and thanks for posting it!
Hello Matt, thank you for your helpful video.
I share your views, but I also like to deal with criticism.
Regarding opinions on the tests:
I find it disadvantageous to pit real-world photography and laboratory tests against each other. Both methods have their pros and cons depending on the subject matter, and they can be useful based on personal priorities.
Fortunately, everyone is free to disregard one of the two methods, perhaps to ignore certain facts or because it is genuinely irrelevant to their personal priorities. However, even in the latter case, I see no reason to downplay an existing problem.
Regarding the -5 stops:
Of course, in practice, one doesn't intentionally shoot at -5EV. But this is ultimately just to illustrate how the 100% view is used to compare, for example, chromatic aberrations. I wouldn't gain real insights about a car's quality from a crash test at only 10 mph either.
In daylight with high dynamic range, where BKT isn't possible, I often exceed +2EV when locally brightening dark areas. Sure, maybe this only happens in 5 out of 100 shots, but if the photographer is then unhappy with the result, it doesn't help him that the autofocus and many other features of the Z6iii are three times better.
Regarding Tony:
Yes, one has to be careful that a test isn't deliberately focused only on the one weakness of the newer product. (It's no secret that, for example, in lens flare comparisons, one might specifically choose the one unfavorable angle of the new lens to make it look bad. Hence, counter-tests are necessary that consider all angles). Currently, however, I find more videos that support Tony's observations.
The noise comparisons I've seen are about -0.66 EV worse than the Z6ii.
Since I already own nine Z lenses and would like to stay with Nikon for other reasons, I still have some hope that the issue can be mitigated with a firmware update.
I did some tests today, and it’s not even worth rushing out the video on my channel lol under reasonable conditions it’s seriously a nothing sandwich. No one makes a 7 stops screw up.
Love it. Thanks Zwade. 😀👍
J'ai le mien depuis 2 semaines et j'ai fait des photos de concerts dans des conditions difficiles. Je n'ai jamais eu de problème de plage dynamique de bruit ou autre. Je trouve au contraire que par rapport au Z6II il offre plus de potentiel et globalement de meilleurs résultats.
Il faudrait que les détracteurs apprennent avant tout à faire des photos plutôt que de dénigrer inutilement un matériel qui dans de bonnes conditions d'utilisation donne d'excellents résultats.
Great perspective. For someone who already owns a Z8 for sports and Landscapes and a Z6ii for portability and low light fun pictures and who never does video, I'm waiting until my Z6ii dies before I fork over more money on a Z6iii. You've helped me see that telling a story is more important than technical aspects. If I think 8 stop IBIS in low light will help tell a story, I will consider the Z6iii or maybe the future Z6iv. I'm going to FOCUS (pun intended) on getting lenses to help me tell that story. I've never owned a 1.2 lens. The 135 f/1.8 also interests me. In the old days, we all put our money in great glass and solid bodies, like the Nikon F2, we were depending on Kodak, Agfa and Fuji to help us with resolution. I realize now that the film has been replaced by sensor selection in the Body that fits us. Your "Story Telling" comment hits home. Thanks!!!
I’ve tried the camera and it’s brilliant! My price point is more in 2k-2.2k range. Wish Nikon had a cheaper model for much newer, yet serious and committed people
So l in the Canon system but before the dynamic range issues came up l was considering getting a Z6iii with a 180/600mm & after the dynamic range issues came up l am still considering getting a Z6iii & 180/600mm.😃
First of all Yeah... I agree with you. Storytelling is key. Without that you've got nothing. That's the difference between a beautiful (but insignificant) shot and a great one. Secondly, I've watched a test and the Z63 was actually performing better than the predecessor (I'm talking about the sensor obviously). Thirdly, if anyone has watched Sony&honey's test well you should know that: he took a photo of a photo but the original shot was done on a Canon camera (notoriously bad for dynamic range) and it's probably over a 10 year old shot! And then he complains that the Z63 isn't doing 'that well'? Was he kidding us or what? I'm sure that no one is going off by 4 or 5 stops (as if he/she does, change job mate!). Well put Matt. - ha... and yes, take advantage of the Z8 sale although the Z63 has indeed A LOT going for herself!
Thanks Matt, 👍👏 brilliant video, I hooked up on a Z6 III page on Facebook, and all I see is charts & comments ripping apart a camera’s ability. I am from the film days too (similar age I reckon (56) ), I’d like to see these people’s reactions to pushing an Ilford Delta 3200 to 6400…🙀
Must have taken some restraint to be that polite for YT…🤣👍
A nice chat with a cinematic ending, bravo Matt! None of the DR wingers would be out in that rain... I love the end music, but when the first note came in, my first thought was, that sounds big, is he going to move away from the road, LOL.
I saw the rain in your low light video before you even mentioned that it was raining. That is all I need to see :)
Perfect!
Outstanding. The technonerds drank the Kool-Aid. Any photographer that worked in the film era knows that digital has eliminated sooo many constraints. In my photography, design of a grayscale image tells a story.
Loved the video! Thank You!
Glad you enjoyed it Eric :)
nice flare control
Perfectly dynamic as my D4. ❤
Yes first it was frame rates, then autofocus, now dynamic range
The DR hit job is just another opportunity to create negative content. It creates engagement and gives non photographers a way to satiate their egos since they can't compete in a discussion of output. The Nikon D4, D5, D6 all have lower dynamic range than the Z6 III. The Canon flagship 1D X line all have lower dynamic range, until you get to the 1D X MK III which has baked in noise reduction, similar to many of their mirrorless line of cameras. If you're baking in noise reduction to increase your DR, then we're no longer comparing apples to apples. The point, the difference is so minute that it's a non factor when it comes to the final product.
I read a comment below that said much of this is born from the desire to have a perfect camera. There's some truth to that since every spec and every feature will be scrutinized and if it's not leading the industry, then it can't be the perfect camera. The problem with this is that there are always tradeoffs which is why there are so many options to choose from. Ironically, when perfection is near, the argument then switches to one of size and weight.
At the end of the day (hate this phrase) nobody really wants a perfect camera as so much of the fun is in the chase, the experimentation and the collecting. ✌
Agree! How did anyone even take photos with those lower DR Camera in the past?(LOL)
@@williambuford6136 It just didn't happen. We're in the matrix and have been fooled into thinking there was life before mirrorless cameras.
lol
Funny thing is I know and see the baked in noise reduction and people who do reviews and so on, don't mention and account for it. It's simple, higher speed (frames per second or sensor read speed) results in less dynamic range and baked in noise reduction, if you want to help users do less steps or just use it for marketing and make your product look better. I prefer to remove noise myself, it gives me more "freedom/choice" and to see the real performance. Sadly it's becoming less common.
Great video explaining in terms that are understandable.
Matt, how does the dynamic range of the viewing medium such as computer screen, tv screen, photographic print paper, photographic inkjet or laser printer impact the effect the camera's dynamic range has on the viewer's experience? I really liked this video, but I think we've given up our love of dynamic range by moving to digital media. The same is true for music, I believe. We've given up our audio reproductive range for the convenience of listening to digital files rather than analog reproduction and rather than live music. Years ago I purchased some Zone 6 prints to have an easy way to appreciate excellent B&W print dynamic range. How can I do that today in the color digital world?
Nice to meet you the other day, Matt, at Ted's!
You too!
Art of photography can be done with many types of equipment. I think what Nikon Z cameras can do is inspiring. I use Nikon Z 5 and want a new Nikon Z cameras but until I can get one, I'm using the best tool available. Z 6 III would be better in every way I think as you pointed out In real usage. I don't understand math so well and charts are not so inspiring to read. :)
My personal take on the Z6 series (and the Zf) is this: if you need maximum DR, get the Z6 II or Zf (same sensor, but the Zf has faster AF). If you need the best AF for $2500, you'll probably have to sacrifice a bit and get a Z6 III. If you can live with the form factor and lack of extended video recording, the Zf is a good compromise between AF performance and image quality (and one reason I decided to just keep my Zf and not bother with a Z6 III myself--it's a well rounded camera from an IQ and AF performance standpoint, although the design is perhaps not to everyone's taste being a retro design). But if you look past that or can get over it, then it can be a good bargain that falls pretty much between a Z6 II and Z6 III in terms of performance and cost. Yes the Z6 III may have some more noise at higher ISOs and may have lower DR, but you're trading that off for a massive improvement in AF over the Z6 II, so you have to weigh those out. There is no real "right or wrong" answer here -- it's what do you need (what priorities do you have for features), and what are you willing to compromise on?
Hi Matt, Edward here. Nice to meet you on the Melbourne Z6III hands on session last Friday. Pity that I do not have the time to stay till the end. Since it is on the topic on dynamic range. How is this compared to Z6? I moved to Z6 last year from D610. I found that the dynamic range has slight improvement but not by a lot. But the focusing capability in darker environment is far better than D610. So I assume that the -10EV is talking about focus capability and not the dynamic range.
I’m not even that mad about Northrup judging the Z6 III so harshly. I mean, I don’t agree, but if that’s how he judges cameras, ok, fine. However the R6 II applies noise reduction at its lowest ISO settings, artificially increasing the DR score. And the RP has far worse dynamic range than the Z6 III anyway. But I don’t remember him making a similar video about those cameras.
Having said that, you made a video about the Z6 III being a stop better than the Z6 II for high ISO performance. That has turned out to be false as well. But in that case, the 1 stop difference in noise performance did seem to matter to you. Yet a 1/2-3/4 stop difference in DR does not.
One thing this whole discussion has done for me btw, is make clear how DR is different and connected to high ISO performance. It has been quite insightful.
So exactly what Proof do you have concerning what Canon does with their noise reduction on the R6ii.
@@natureredux1957You again? What rabbit hole have you come out this time?
Oh for everyone else: he asked the same when I raised this point in a comment to Tony's video. I found the measurements on the website that Tony actually uses in his video, and I told him that. But apparently that's not enough. He dismissed it as "some website", when Tony's whole video was triggered by data from that website. So... yeah. Draw your own conclusions I'd say.
I think the Z6III is a great camera and if I had the money I would definitely buy it. I prefer that "sweet spot" of 24MP, though I understand other people want different things from their cameras than I do.
Hi Matt agree with you 110%, I commented on this Dynamic Range Fiasco on my live stream last night and talked about dynamic range quite a bit and how you make adjustments within your camera to compensate if needed since their are cameras that have much lower dynamic range that produce great results. My guests who have decades of experience (several professional photographers) also commented and provided insightful commentary. If all one has to do is be a techie nerd (which I can be to a certain extent) and then weaponize results that are basically inconsequential in the real world, you are doing a dis-service to the photographic community. Go out and shoot and enjoy your tools and improve your craft, if you just watch all the videos on this subject you are not becoming a better photographer, you are hurting the industry implying camera XYZ is not good enough which is unfortunate because some believe your BS and miss out on buying a camera that many say is Best in Class. Look at those that are displaying photo's from the camera which speak much louder that anything else. Take care Matt and thanks. - Jeff
Amazing how all these new photographers are professionals now on what makes a great image. Award winning photos have been taken with much, much less. Choose a camera and system that is comfortable for you and work on taking great photos. Literally stop complaining about the gear because it’s the best it’s ever been!
I still shoot film, for fun, regularly. Every time I do, I am reminder how amazing every single modern camera is today. This DR “issue” in the Z6III is nothing of concern in your actual use of the machine. I am not buying one, at least for now, because I love my Zf/Zfc/Z7II combo for my amateur work. I still regularly create lovely images with a D200, D300, D700….being there, nice light, composition and story telling are, by far, the more important factors on creating good photographic art!
Any denoising done for this video?
Thanks Matt. It is amazing how the UA-camrs are ripping the R5 Mark II now. They go from carcass to carcass striving for relevancy. I appreciate your reality based comments.
Great Video Matt
Hi Matt, sorry missed your visit in Brisbane on 10 Jul. really wanted to attend but i was at work. wish you meet you next time.
Thanks Matt. IF I had the cash, I would buy the Z6iii tomorrow. I love shooting in low light and often use ISOs around 2000 -4000 on my Z6. Since the DR reduction is at ISOs lower than this, its not an issue for me. Yes it would be good to have slightly better DR at base ISO but how much would that have added to the price? I get the idea that some people want $10k+ specs for not much money.
As Mr Irwin always stresses, it's all about use case.
And we thpught the camera wars were over. SIGH
Matt, I totally agree with you. These complainers remind me of the DPR wingers: "My camera weighs weighs 322grams, the new version is 328grams! It's too heavy!"
Take this lot back to film, ... all manual. They would probanly take up knitting! (Light weight needles of course)
Back to a bit of serious, .... I have never seen complainers post their work? Seems to me just another branch of the gossip club.
They are found in every activity without exception.
I wouldn't waste my time Matt. Clearly they are Not photographers! Pictcha takers at best where RAW is only discussed in terms of the nude beach?
I seems to me, that i have seen every Story 10 times before. What changes is the technical quality. So the challenge is to find/create a new story and nobody will care about technical perfection. If you an existing product against an imaginary perfect one, it will loose all time. Compare it against to what you have or need and then you can decide if its a winner or not.
Love your stuff!! Really appreciate your honesty.
I wanted to express something here. All rounder camera. 24mpx vs 45mpx.
I don’t shoot professionally, but I do want to be able to print up to 24,32, maybe even 48x48.
And as far as DR, can and will the Z6iii be ok for or as an “all rounder” camera? Is there a noticeable difference for folks that don’t pixel peep? Say, if I took some landscape photos and sold it to the general public at a tourist spot. I would assume most, if not all of them wouldn’t pixel peep, but would there be a “man, these pictures are as crisp and detailed as the ones in that gallery we just went to.
Just curious on your thoughts. I had the Zf, traded it for the z6iii for ergonomics. I love landscape and I love wildlife, but I do shoot landscape more often.
I have a z6 II and a z8. I'm covered using either camera. But I am considering seeking my z6 II next year and getting the z6 III. The z6 II is lighter and has smaller files. I mostly use it for milky way and street photography. It was my all rounder until I got the z8. The ISO performance was what I was more concerned with because of high ISO for astro photos. I shoot at ISO 6400 a lot. But it sounds like it preforms the same as the z6 II at that range. I have the z8 for landscape, birds and action. I like my z6 II but I'm not fond of the small grip. And I would like a camera with a fully articulating screen. I have a Canon T6s that has one. I have a question for you about shooting film. I just bought a Canon AE-1 back in April. Explain what you mean about shooting at a higher ISO. I know you can pull or push film on the exposure in the dark room. I just don't understand what you mean by shooting at a higher ISO. Do you mean adjusting the ISO dial to what you need regardless of the film speed? I know seeing the ISO has something to do with the light meter and how it calculates with the aperture and shutter speed. And wouldn't you have to shoot the whole roll of film the same way before telling them to push it 1 or 2 stops? I grew up with point and shoot 110 and 35mm cameras. I never had to worry about the settings with those cameras.
People love to scream fire in the theatre on UA-cam to get attention and views. I much prefer your real-world approach where you use the gear and show us what amazing results it can produce. It really just blows the nit-picking chart dwellers out of the water.
The difference I see in the DR on the charts is not significant anyway, so I don’t know what the fuss is about. The measurebators such as horsey shacky and others just have a bit too much time on their hands. Bottom line is, are you shooting for charts or are you shooting for art anyway? I’m interested in the art of photography. I DO like to know the specs of the camera before I buy it, but the specs don’t always equate to the best photos. You need ‘enough’ specs to get great files to work with, but the sensors in the latest cameras are all enough to create magical images, if you can capture it. Or you can shoot birds at the bird feeder all day and post that on dpreview, if that’s your thing. Anyway, the DR in the Z6 III is not much different than the II and it’s definitely enough to get fantastic images.
Next we can cry about ‘decentered’ lenses. 😀
lol.
I am trying to figure out if I should sell my Z7 for a Z6III. I'm so addicted to post-exposure cropping.
Get better and bigger glass
Thanks for calling this "controversy" out for what is. A whole bunch of nothing. The Z6iii is a prosumer/advanced amateur level camera with lot of pro level abilities.for it's cost it is outstanding. No one in its target audience is going to look at an image and think 'this would be a great photo if it had just a little more dynamic range'. Like you said Matt, it's all about the story. Story telling, capturing emotion, is a photographer skill, not a camera attribute. So all this noise about slightly less dynamic range is meaningless.
I guess it is about expectations. Everyone expected the camera to be a lowlight beast, especially since it has yet another iteration of 24MP.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't say, that we should expect this.
And of course you are right: photography is not about half a stop of dr, but still: wouldn't we love it, if it was the other way rounf?
it's the result of the doing of the brands themselves, namely their marketing. you can't go around convincing people about each extra stop of dynamic range for 2 decades and then take it away from them and be like 'you see, its fine, you don't need all that dynamic range you paid a car worth of price in camera gear for during the recent years leading up until now' .
also while it's a good analogy with breaking things till they fail - doing DR comparisons isn't breaking things, it's comparing what we got new to what have existed and where it fits into the picture, how does it satisfy the expectations based on competition and market's (marketed) sentiment.
it can't be both ways - everyone pushing for new better faster and then going back to 'well it takes nice photos anyway' mindset when things don't work out that great .nobody is spending 3k for that.
also if we start playing with 'good enough' - i need FF to get the dynamic range cuz it's super important but then I don't need THIS much of dynamic range. get an mft then.
I think you missed parts of the video.
Now I'm waiting for the final price... And see the beavior of Z6III and probably change my DSLR 😊
Ex UA-camr Daniel Milnor once spoke three words and often repeated them,which I try to live by every time I pick up one of my cameras.
“Light, timing and composition” all that matters.
I hope the Z7iii, when/if it comes, will be a photo centric camera with no stacking sensor. So basically the Z7ii with better autofocus and the same good video quality like Z8. I know there will be rolling shutter but the z7 must differentiate from the z8.
I think we will see a price drop (or extended sale) of the Z6III within the first 12-18 months. The Z8 has now been on sale for several weeks in the US for $3499. I’m not in any rush so will wait, and see if Nikon releases anything else in that period I may even prefer - Z5II or Z50II (Z80?)..