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I´m german. And I can tell you, that everything has gone down here in the last 4 years...I feel like an alien in my country of origin for the 1st time in my life. I can only pray that things will get better in the next decade 🙏 I have no hope for things to change for the better in this decade...
I can assure you that it will get worse . . . till Europe gets to the level of African countries while, relatively, Asian nations will rise to the top.
now with the new government it will go down much faster. Trying to sell in the last millennium is quite difficult. And offering old technology in the Third Millennium will lead to 18 Mercedes sold last quarter in China, and 26 Porsche.
All directed by the UN to every western nation in lock step not by coincidence Every western country excepted immigrants which increased their debt ceiling, which gave them the ability to draw against that line of credit which they did in lockstep around the world not by coincidence, and they put that money in their pockets. Now every western country is broke by design.
If you have a house EV is good investment, otherwise it is pure shit and it will even get more shit if people living in buildings have only option to buy an EV car. If car manufactures can only sell EVs to people who live in a house, then we can close 70% of car brands, there will be just no need for a car and only rich will drive them. Maybe if there is an infrastructure installed in all parking spots, so people can put them on charge, when they are home in their flat, but that is far far future. Do not come up with idea that there are charging stations. like gas stations, because if everyone is using EV car that is just not great to waste so much life sitting in a car while it is charging and waiting in a queues for a charge, especially it will be impossible during winter (double visit to charging station for same milage during summer). Only solution is every parking spot has a charger or they make batteries where you can drive real 800km, even after 10 years of using the EV car.
That's assuming that there is a hydrogen station within half a hydrogen tank drive away from your home. Otherwise, you would run out of hydrogen before you could get back home from your "fuel run". There are 74 hydrogen fueling stations in the US and many of them are frequently closed due to running out of hydrogen or other mechanical problems.
@@twostate7822 Don't worry! like ev super charging station hydrogen stations will also be there like gas stations after 10 years. You can buy that time not tomorrow.
@@albinkeranovic1741 You are absolutely right. Compared to ICE the EV does not look good considering the massive investment in the charging network. But don't you think it's easier to build the charging network than building the hydrogen transportation network and stations? Every parking space can be converted to a charging station, maybe not the super fast charging that charges your car in 15 minutes, but it's totally OK to charge the car in several hours for most people.
@@JRK2024 Almost nobody is building hydrogen stations today, and there are more announced closings of hydrogen stations than new hydrogen stations being built. Not unsurprisingly, there is no demand for hydrogen stations because virtually nobody is buying hydrogen vehicles. Then, who is going to be building the hydrogen production plants and transportation infrastructure which will take years when there is no demand? There are around 35K EV charging stations with 200+K chargers with tens of thousands being built or in the planning stages every month or so. Plus tens of millions of houses and multi family buildings that have, or are capable of having EV chargers added.
So such boring companies like Mercedes and Chevy sell the highest range, fastest charing EVs. Yet it is them, not the Chinese that have nowhere to go but down? Why is this channel only allowed to talk about the Chinese ones?
Lets face it, they are so behind the 8 ball in EVs that they are wishing the hydrogen platform will come along so they can be first movers. But we all know that it doesn't stack up. By the time Hydrogen becomes an available fuel, electric charging stations will be everywhere.
lol you are clueless. BMW will reveal it's 800V EV platform next year, the EVs will have great efficiency without sacrificing exterior design, they will have good though not groundbreaking charging speeds and very big range. The concept of displaying shortcuts and small bits of information across the whole bottom of the windscreen is a refreshing way to implement a good infotainment system which does not only have a single screen mounted to the middle (+you still have an augmented reality HUD and the center screen).
The biggest irony, btw, is that China is currently the biggest producer of hydrogen and hydrogen fuel cells, and they're building increasingly larger hydrogen plants all the time. The hydrogen future already belongs to China. They're way ahead already.
Hydrogen requires a high level of service and cost just as much to make. They are trying to keep everyone employed and not shrink their org. Hydrogen works better for BMW than its customers.
German automakers are fighting on every front except innovation. Their efforts must be quickly redirected or they are history. (Detroit Big Three... are you listening?)
Lol literally german car manufacturers are among the most innovative. If you count in the german car suppliers and throw them in a pot together with the car manufacturers, then this group would be the most innovative in the automotive industry
@@Aztasu😂For example, a 3000 CAD blind spot radar which manufacture cost is around 50 CAD or less? I mean what kind of kick back they had hand out to Toyota sourcing team to win the bid?
Hydrogen stored at 700 bar (approximately 10,000 PSI) raises significant safety concerns as it is an extremely high pressure gas that could become dangerous if containment systems fail. Any sensible person will argue that given the energy density and flammability of hydrogen, combined with the risks associated with storing it at such high pressures in vehicles, this is akin to a 'moving bomb'.
😂They say the same thing to EV. Because of the battery pack. Toronto transit commission actually ban electric scooter owner bring their scooter to the bus.
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
@@Joa-y4y They are non sensical though from an energy efficiency point of view. The amount of energy needed to produce Hydrogen which then has a 40% efficiency is a massive waste of energy and recourses. Far better to use electricity directly.
So, people might not have noticed this yet, but the 5 biggest hydrogen production plants and the biggest fuel cell producers are all Chinese. The Chinese themselves are betting big on a hydrogen economy too. It's just for them hydrogen is tied to the power industry, not the car industry. The Chinese companies making hydrogen infrastructure are all power companies. What they want to do is use hydrogen as mobile storage for electricity generated by renewables. What this really means is that even if the Euro-Japanese hydrogen future pans out somehow, they'd already be a decade behind China by the time it does.
Hydrogen absolutely got its uses, think of the steel industry that needs really high temperatures in which China is the dominant player. Also, Launghall Ocean Shipping and Space Exploration is a good candidate. But road transport no, battery-powered vehicles are much more efficient, and the distribution network you need for hydrogen is a nightmare.
Let someone from Germany who has dealt with this explain it to you: Research on hydrogen vehicles is heavily subsidized in Germany. Hydrogen research is, therefore, purely about taking advantage of government funding. No matter what the outcome is (nothing in this case).
Hydrogen has been a research project for 20 years with billions sunk into it already, we still don't have viable products and infrastructure and you can safely bet we never will.
Dont worry BMW is in the 5 stages of grief currently there are in the denial phase where they refuse to acknowledge the present and continue to denial the outcome.
Check the flexible disk history on computers. This is really similar. The problem is when you are so attached to your success that you can't go out of it. The other newer companies in China have been better prepared to deal with the change. In fact, look at it. BYD and Geely are relatively new compared with FAW and DongFeng. And the newer are advancing better in this game.
In the late 1980's I remember when a a news reporter did a story for a new invention, a hydrogen powered car. I remember he even drank the exhaust which was water. I was so impressed.
that was the catch...build hydrogen car and water (H2O) comes out your tailpipe. What they didnt tell you is that "we produce ALL hydrogen via methane gas reforming". So the fossil fuel industry alternative to cars powered by oil was cars powered by natural gas. Win win for them and lose lose for the planet.
The Toyato Marri has 3 hydrogen tanks for a range of 600km. Those 3 10,000psi bombs are located between the driver and passenger, under the rear seats (really safe for kids) and in the trunk where a spare wheel would normally be. This is a hydrogen fuel cell car, and i hear idiots talking hydrogen combustion which is half as efficient as a fuel cell. You need 6 tanks on the Toyota Mirri to get 600km if you had hydrogen combustion. Where are you going to put thr extra 3 tank? Nowhere probably, which means you will have 300km of range. This is the future these idiots ate proposing.
There is areally cool graph that I found which shows 4 cars accessing 100 kWh of electricity. So the 100 kWhr is the same at the left side of the graph for each of the 4 cars, the Tesla M3, Tesla MS, Toyota Mirai and BMW Hydrogen 7. For the 2 Teslas, there are transmission losses and DC charging losses, so that 85kWhr is what gets to the car. The M3 can travel 459km with that amount of charge. The MS gets 405km. The Mirai and BMW see the process of electrolysis, compression, compression to tanker, and finally refuelling, so that only 57 kWhr gets to both cars. So for all 4 cars it is making the same assumption that you need to generate electricity, which comes at a cost. The Mirai then gets 173km from the 100 kWhr electricity. The BMW only gets 46km. This is why EVs will win and hydrogen will lose. The EV feeds straight from the grid and with 15% losses. Hydrogen cars lose 43% of the electricity, plus there are significant costs in getting that electricity to your car. Then after it arrives, the hydrogen car is so much less efficient. The issue is that this inefficiency can't be fixed. That is why hydrogen cars were never an option to begin with.
@@zoransarin5411😂And, if I remeber correctly, you are losing 2% hydrogen by mass every week wether you use the car or not. I am still believing hydrogen will be the ultimate answer as our fuel. But it will be in a relative distant future. It will be either in Fuel cell or better compact fusion reactor. Not ICE, very unlikely. Turbo shaft will be questionable as well.
I charge my e-bike for free directly off one solar panel. Soon enough I'll charge an EV off the rest of my solar panels. No matter what, I and others can charge their EVs at home. Nobody, other than farmers, have the ability to put gasoline in their cars at home.
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
@@Joa-y4yJust the principle is daft. Use hydrogen to produce energy to power up a car. Hydrogen that takes more energy to be produced, that is hard to store and distribute instead of just putting energy in. Charging and batteries are developing all the time making the advantages of hydrogen smaller and smaller while the fundamental disadvantages are going nowhere. Maybe some form of heavy machinery can make sense but personal vehicles.....just dont.
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
It’s simply a distraction for the public, as BMW’s NEV plans run into delays (note $2 Billion battery cancellation with NorthVolt etc.). If they were serious, they would invest in distribution.
Dont worry everyone BMW is in the 5 stages of grief currently there are in the denial phase where they refuse to acknowledge the present and continue to denial the outcome.
The Mini is built in Oxford in England. i cannot see why BMW are doing Hydrogen fuels!! im sure you done a video on Canada fuel stations closing their hydrogen pumps as it cost too much to make and transport! keep up the great content
Hydrogen charging is not an 'advantage' because with EVs, you can sometimes just drive home and hook it up over night, without needing to go to a gas station.
Mining lithium is a water guzzling real toxic pollution metal, our ocean species will not survive due to all the lithium people and there phones, cars and all there electronics need. We have to stop this lithium shenanigans, lithium cars are a nuclear disaster every year in the making, the mining of it and recycling of it are truly the worst pollution to the planets water, ocean and air due to the toxic chemicals used to mine it! It is way more expensive to recycle a lithium battery than to mine it, the pollution it causes to the planets ocean is not sustainable, its like a nuclear chernobl to the planets ocean every year. Secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere. Due to the heavy toxins and pollution in mining lithium, when a lithium car is still in the company assembly line it has already polluted more than a hydrogen fuel cell car that has been on the road for more than 125000 miles! There are many green hydrogen plants being built around the globe at the moment, by 2030 green hydrogen will be so abundant that it will stop lithium car companies at there tracks, this is why BMW and many big car companies are canceling lithium pollution cars!
The new kia ev6 charges from 10-80% in 17min... In reality we don't need faster charging than that. There are already trucks that charge 350kw flat all the way to 100% (because of the big buffer at the end).
Going Hydrogen in Cars and Trucks is like a Farmer growing Animals and then instead of sending those animals to be turned into meat to eat for Humans, instead he turns them all into fertiliser to grow Plants that are then made available for Vegans to eat.
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
@@Joa-y4y What a load of garbage, what research have you done, none or you wouldn't have made that comment, anyone with a brain and actually does do the research finds exactly the same result that I did and that everyone that buys a Hydrogen car and then feels like a sucker after their free fuel period runs out. Hydrogen is a joke and requires not only the Electricity to produce the Hydrogen but the transport hub required to transport all produced fuels, EV is the only system where the infrastructure is already in place and for every thousand EVS worth of recharge they can only produce enough Hydrogen for 850 cars and that isn't counting the cost of the fuel required for the transport, it's a nonsensical idea and will never become a main form of transport, people will be laughing about Hydrogen cars for decades to come.
Bmw hydrogen move was way B4 Toyota dip their toe in the bussiness. Bmw start their hydrogen dream as early as 1977 when they make the first hydrogen 7 in a e28 chassis. It is metioned in BoSch automotive hand book.
I did part of my Thesis for my master's on hydrogen powered vehicles and I can tell you hydrogen will not take off for at least another 30+ years (if ever) as there are so many issues with producing the hydrogen and compressing it. It's massively inefficient with losses every step of the way. Not to mention there is little to no infrastructure for hydrogen. Overall Hydrogen definitely isn't going to take over anytime soon.
That's probably the point, they're thinking it's such a difficult problem only they can solve it and then germany has it made. Ignoring the generations of engineers and politicians who have already tried before them
Hydrogen vehicle research is subsidized by the German gov't, so having a hydrogen vehicle program gets them free money. With some creative accounting it's easy to siphon off most of that money to pay for other stuff.
Germans are inventers,they not care what china or the USA does..they do what they like,and invent and innovate...machines,guns,cars,atomicbombs,rockets.dieselengines..where all invented by Germans...and many other Things..😂😂
China is fueling Germany car maker money in the past, now money dried up from china, they are realising with the other market including home is not making as much more. Option is now is cut down as much production cost and hang on to existing buyer at the declining rate even putting hope to everyone the alternative fuel like hydrogen is the way to go…wishful thinking!
They have the chance. China had put out the current emission standard long ago. They did not react. Now this. But cant blame them, everything was nice and cozy till 2023 when we reach the tipping point. Who wouldve foresee that happens so quickly
@@林振华-t4v "Who would have foreseen..." - well, apparently someone at BMW were "on the ball" way back when they launched the i3, which I'm told is still a pretty good EV (I did find it funny though when it came out that it has really narrow wheels for a BMW, while the LEAF had pretty wide ones). As we've seen with VW and the ousting of Diess, I suspect the same political game has taken place in BMW, ousting or sidelining those who wanted to bet on EVs earlier. BMW seem to be doing reasonably well on the EV front lately, judging by what I see on Norwegian roads, but it's possible that they're not very profitable...
Even our small company is building covered parking spots with solar on top and 2 charging stations, Chinese of course. You park your car for 8 hours 5 days a week and you can charge.
The ruth is... Can the banks afford to lose that kind of money.. If these legacy auto makers that owe billions can't meet their financial obligations... what happens to the banks hedge funds stock market... around the world if these companies go belly up?????
I have Rooftop Solar. Charge Point, EV. Done. 😅A hectare Solar produces 1 Million kWh per year. In Nederland. An EV goes 6 km per kWh. 6 Million km per hectare Solar along the Highway. BMW must be Crazy.
Transportation & Storage of Hydrogen is still a major issue at present . Hydrogen embrittlement is a potential hazard on metal pipes & metal containers leakages that has not been solved up to now . Toyota has been working on this for many years . Hydrogen Trucks and Buses are possible if they can be refueled in the same Hydrogen Stations everyday .
You mean BMW is next to fall over after VW? B.t.w. I saw a BMW hydrogen car in the RAI Car Exhibition 20 years ago and it was extremely complicated. Made no sense at all.
@@Aztasu yet the topic here is BMW's apparent insistence on going with H2 for cars. Oh and there have been H2 city bus projects too, that ended up scrapping the H2 buses due to high running costs, replacing them with electric buses... H2 for transportation was the "Next Big Thing" 20 years ago too, when the oil company I worked at (IT contractor) bought a bunch of H2 company cars and opened a filling station "next door" at the local gas station. Now the "H2 is the Next Big Thing" chorus is louder than ever even though not much has changed, because the EV surge has the fossil fuel world worried. Oh and the local H2 station is long gone.... there are only two H2 stations in Norway now, and one is privately owned by a grocery distributor and not open to the public.
They are stupidly greedy. The hydrogen agenda comes from gas and oil companies. They plan to produce hydrogen from gas and oil and are actively buying politicians to lobby.
@@undisclosedthai Maybe in Germany. You can discuss the merrits of former Bundeskanzlers, but Angela Merkel is literally a Dr./PhD of quantum physics. It is kind of surprising to see a country elect people who are known incompetent. Like: Why the heck are they doing that??
This madness ( thinking hydrogen is viable for a car) is easy to explain. The Fossil Fuel industry makes hydrogen as a by product. And they have a well funded promotion industry ( to get subsidies etc.) Politicians have been fooled to believe it makes sense, and offer tax-payers money as an incentive to do research into hydrogen. It benefits no-one but the Oil Industry...
Calling hydrogen cars renewable--meaning it's green energy--reminds me of a billboard sign I saw advertising rum and saying zero calories. Sure, while it's in the bottle it has zero calories, but once your liver gets a hold of it and converts it back into sugar, you might as well be drinking maple syrup for all the calories there are. I'm sure you know, it takes loads of non-renewable energy to get the hydrogen into the tanks at the hydrogen stations.
Mining lithium is a water guzzling real toxic pollution metal, our ocean species will not survive due to all the lithium people and there phones, cars and all there electronics need. We have to stop this lithium shenanigans, lithium cars are a nuclear disaster every year in the making, the mining of it and recycling of it are truly the worst pollution to the planets water, ocean and air due to the toxic chemicals used to mine it! It is way more expensive to recycle a lithium battery than to mine it, the pollution it causes to the planets ocean is not sustainable, its like a nuclear chernobl to the planets ocean every year. Secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere. Due to the heavy toxins and pollution in mining lithium, when a lithium car is still in the company assembly line it has already polluted more than a hydrogen fuel cell car that has been on the road for more than 125000 miles! There are many green hydrogen plants being built around the globe at the moment, by 2030 green hydrogen will be so abundant that it will stop lithium car companies at there tracks, this is why BMW and many big car companies are canceling lithium pollution cars!
Sam. You should take a look at BMWs new case study. If teleportation is possible within a radius of 1000miles what you look for in a car. BMW is preparing for all scenarios especially when transportation costs drops drastically due to Robo taxis, driverless cars, car free city requirements. BMW is looking at designing a car which people will still desire in a world like this.
6:51 L in LPG means Liquid. That's why it can be measured in liters, although at pressure, you pump liquid into the tank. Edit: regarding the main topic, the weird thing is that BMW EVs are actually good and reasonably priced, they should tout them...
Lots of problems with H2, including the high cost of production and storage. It's a wasteful complication as batteries do a good job without the waste. There is also an issue with fugitive H2. In significant concentration it is explosive. In lesser concentrations it drifts to the top of the atmosphere where it potentially could interfere with the ozone layer or simply drift off into space. In short, it's unsustainable.
I used to love the idea of a hydrogen future. As a kid. In the 70's. :) I hope people do develop the tech. further actually - maybe it'll find useful applications. For 99% of private-ownership cars or fleets of self-driving cars though I lack the imagination to see how it could displace BEV's in an engineering/economics sense, as they scale further and the technology is still on a rapid pathway of improvement. Politics of course doesn't really care about engineering realities, so who knows?
EVM just reviewed a Chinese built Mini and panned it. BMW can't outsource the design and build without risking losing what makes their brand desirable.
Hydrogen talk goes on now for long time and still nothing moved on. On EV space, more and more cars are on the street. When I saw tech is changing back in 2022 I sold my Audi and first went to rentig Tesla for 6 months beforr buying one. I dont look back. It is just great to use, way more then a loud diesel.
Sounds like BMW is doing a Toyota like dummy spit and it's unwilling to face reality of their dire situation. Near nobody wants hydrogen cars. If BMW is doubling down on hydrogen while BEVs dominate consumer demand, it could be perceived as stubbornness or a failure to adapt to market realities.
Wrong. Hydrogen has 2 problems. Firstly it is expensive to produce. Secondly, hydrogen cars are as efficient as ICE cars, around 25%. EVs are at around 80+%. So to produce hydrogen you need to use electricity, then you need to do a lot more to get it to the filling station. Then the car using it is inefficient. Take the same electricity needed to make hydrogen, save a fortune transmitting it as the infrastructure is already there and doesn't need further processing, then put it in a car which uses it far more efficiently, and this is why hydrogen will never win for passenger cars. Much more costly and much more inefficient. By way of example, it has been estimated that using 100kWh of electricity, a Tesla Model 3 will travel 459km. That same 100kWh of electricity will get a Toyota Mirai 173km and a BMW Hydrogen 7 46km. This is why EVs will win and hydrogen will lose. The EV feeds straight from the grid and with 15% losses. Hydrogen cars lose 43% of the electricity, plus there are significant costs in getting that electricity to your car. Then after it arrives, the hydrogen car is so much less efficient. The issue is that this inefficiency can't be fixed. That is why hydrogen cars were never an option to begin with.
@@Yooo47that’s what he said. Solar = free.. no heavy tanks, no micro puncturing of highly pressurised tanks by space particles/debris, etc. you can’t make hydrogen in space. You have to take it there from earth.
@@iscadean6038 true, solar is great for operation of station. but for rocket propulsion or high energy density, hydrogen is must. (as clean energy ofcourse)
Hydrogen powered cars are awesome, but they will still need electric motors to drive the wheels. But by the time they get a stable solution for hydrogen, battery technology will have improved where the benefits of hydrogen might be a wash.
Mining lithium is a water guzzling real toxic pollution metal, our ocean species will not survive due to all the lithium people and there phones, cars and all there electronics need. We have to stop this lithium shenanigans, lithium cars are a nuclear disaster every year in the making, the mining of it and recycling of it are truly the worst pollution to the planets water, ocean and air due to the toxic chemicals used to mine it! It is way more expensive to recycle a lithium battery than to mine it, the pollution it causes to the planets ocean is not sustainable, its like a nuclear chernobl to the planets ocean every year. Secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere. Due to the heavy toxins and pollution in mining lithium, when a lithium car is still in the company assembly line it has already polluted more than a hydrogen fuel cell car that has been on the road for more than 125000 miles! There are many green hydrogen plants being built around the globe at the moment, by 2030 green hydrogen will be so abundant that it will stop lithium car companies at there tracks, this is why BMW and many big car companies are canceling lithium pollution cars!
Legacy manufacturers are reluctant to go EV I think for one reason in particular…….showrooms and service centres rely on servicing vehicles to keep the buildings running, vehicle sales do not hold up the franchises and pay for the buildings, the workshop is the area of profit, parts and servicing. Without the need for regular maintenance the workshops won’t survive on warranty work alone, plus reducing the requirement for mechanics, there needs to be some rethinking on the manufacturers part and the automotive industry is in for some hurt and pain during this transition.
Hydrogen is based on the Vampire business model which has served Oil so well. You can't get it at home so you have to come to our hydrogen outlets where we can manipulate Prices by constraining Supply or saying the cost of manufacture fluctuates so much price gouging ...sorry prices will never be stable.
Sam always “knocks” hybrids. But he’s an Aussie in Newcastle NSW so he absolutely knows that hybrids of the non plug-in type have been selling like hot-cakes here in Australia. Yet he doesn’t mention it. Why? BEV sales plateaued at 8% in Jan 2023 and have stayed at that level since. It seems that few people here are interested in pure battery cars. But hybrids are going gangbusters. For example it is now an 18 month wait for a non plug-in hybrid Toyota RAV4 and 12 months for a non plug-in Camry hybrid. I was in two brand new non plug-in hybrid Camry’s (UBERs) last weekend, both in Brisbane and I was quite impressed. The drivers said they are averaging 4.5 lts/100 km (53 mpg) which meant $25 per 500 km (300 miles).
A relative recently purchased a Prius non plug-in hybrid here in the US and as a EV only guy I was quite impressed with it and now understand what Toyota is talking about regarding hybrids. He gets 50-60 miles per gallon and has some of the benefits of an EV without the worry of charging. The Prius has regenerative braking that recharges the battery and it has the EV acceleration because it has an electric motor for torque. If you do the math: To drive 250 miles in Prius 4.16 gallons at $3.00 gallon= $12.48. To go 250 miles in our VW ID.4: 77 kWh battery size X .$18 KWH =$13.86. At current gas and electricity prices in the US the Prius is cheaper to fuel than our EV! There is not much advantage in fuel savings for a pure EV over a hybrid. And if you can't charge at home there is no advantage for an EV.
Ev sales will continue to grow until others get wise about how limited ev s are in general use. Range anxiety is hardly an issue with ice cars. Evs are fine in cities if they are charged at home and are kept away from buildings and other cars, due to fire risk.
Speak to anyone who knows their chemistry and you’ll soon realise how complex and expensive it is to make the hydrogen needed to power vehicles…then add in the explosion risk and the complete absence of refuelling infrastructure and you should understand that it’s a dead end idea! Economics have already decided our future transportation!
I've worked with hydrogen fired furnaces and I can tell you that whilst hydrogen is a great fuel from the point of emissions it is very difficult to work with. All of Europe made stupid claims about clean diesel that every engineer knew where marginal at best. Hydrogen is in the same boat. Maybe we can get "green" hydrogen and we can overcome distribution and refuelling issues but we must look long and hard at this whole prospect before le aping into another dieselgate scenario. For now, the nightmare of EU ev public charging needs to be coherently addressed. Let's get something right before creating a new "challenge".
only 65 hydrogen fuel stations in Germany, most have enough to fill 50 cars before needing hydrogen refill.. UK has about 12 public available refuel stations, most around London, 1 in Scotland, none in Wales none in Ireland. None in Spain, Portugal and Italy. I think 1 or 2 in Denmark.
I`ts the maintenance costs which will destroy Hydrogen cars, they need aircraft grade parts to survive the micro fractures which plague high pressure storage, the cost of the parts is very very expensive.
Hard to understand any manufacturer wanting to use hydrogen. It’s hard to make, hard to transport, and requires such specialized equipment to dispense. And there is currently no infrastructure for it, and I don’t see the big oil companies running to start building them. 🤷♂️
Iceland had Hydrogen Fuel Cell Public transportation for decades. But they literally had free Geo Thermo generator all over the country. It work out pretty well for them. Toyota was doing it because they got some subsidies from the Government, and they are also exploring different path for Japan. Japan believe there is no possible way to overhaul their electric grid to do a full EV adoption. But why is BMW pursuing this route is beyond my comprehension.
You need to consider the effects of decoupling - if trade between EU and China stops (e.g. due to China attacking Taiwan), batteries will be the limiting factor of EV production. BMW just plays it safe here...
The country of Germany is world-reknowned for its prowess in engineering. Same with Japan. It is truly sad that hubris has caused these great industrial nations to firmly place their collective heads up their butts when it comes to innovation of EV's. It's not too late but there is urgent need to re-think, re-tool and innovate...
Hydrogen belongs to power plants, ships, big airplanes. Battery EV belongs to passenger cars, trucks, busses. The reason is the cost of H2 compressor is $1M. Gas station cannot afford to install H2 compressor. SSB will solve driving range, safety, and charge time at 2nd level charge station. Every gas station will become 2nd level charge station.
Hydrogen is a niche product. Maybe someone will figure out a lower energy way to create hydrogen from water or other hydrogen containing substance. However, it will always take energy to do that. Hydrogen is a storage medium, like a battery. It might have its uses, but I'll be shocked if it's a significant factor in cars in the next 20 years.
can you talk about byd electric cars (dolphin, dolphin mini) regular maintenance? Why does BYD require frequent maintenance in pure electric cars while Tesla doesnt?
@@Aztasu What are you talking about? Do you have one? Tesla is the brand with the cheapest maintainance paid by car owners of all. I have a 1 year model Y with almost 30,000 kms and havent spent a penny... Most of these comments are from people that have never owned one and just believe whatever the media says...
Costs of production folks - China is a coal powered economy and the labour costs are low and the manufacturers went all in on electric and were supported to do so (please don't think ICE car manufacturers don't get subsidies as well!) but the ultimate truth is that making something in China is so much cheaper. Car factories use huge amounts of power, the German government ran an energy plan based on Russian Gas - that has gone south and now electricity in Germany is crazy high priced while the unions demand ever higher wages and shorter weeks.
Turboes, injection, v8, and engine eletronic was a big sales point. Because of this, they could hire more workers. But, why do you need this? An EV is faster, and better. Electric motors are way better. And, with the battery prices soaring, everyone can get a cheap car with a more powerful motor, than the breaks can handle. Christian von köenigsegg sayed that with EV's, the drive line isn't a sale pitch.
I recently spoke with a sales rep (with a science & engineering background) from one of the biggest industrial gas suppliers (that supplies all the major mines in Australia). I asked him about the process and cost of producing hydrogen, and he basically laughed at me. He said that nobody or company are willing to put money in the production of hydrogen, because it's crazy expensive. Who is going to invest and what guarantees will they get for the investment?
Storage and transport of Hydrogen is the biggest problem, and it doesn't appear that BMW have made any substantial progress in this area. In fact, we are still at the same roadblock we were at in 1980 when another German carmaker abandoned it's efforts to produce a hydrogen-powered car. Battery power is already better that Hydrogen will ever be, and batteries are getting better year on year. Hydrogen storage is not getting better.
Sam. Do you remember the iDrive BMW launched in the 7 series way back. Take a look at their new iDrive coming on the iDrive. China has starting work on duplicating it. Another interesting strategy is where BMW is looking at what the first space vehicles privately owned would be like. In 39 years owning a private space based 'corvette' (a private space craft for in system travel) will be a reality and bmw looking at this already. Never gloss over BMWs strategy. These guys are different than any other car company.
So BMW say future is EV. But with fuel cell instead of the battery. It make more sense to me, you will not have to think about long charging time and longevity of your battery. And it will be easier to make hydrogen filling stations than to electrify whole Europe road network.
The only way hydrogen works is if they can cut the size of the latest technological hydrogen generator from the size of a house to the size of a fridge. And cut the huge amount of electricity it costs to generate hydrogen.
Meanwhile there is a scandal in sweden, the Nio cars are so bad and full of bugs that customers wanted to return the car, but got arrested due to Nio being in debt not paying their govt fees. China cars are utter crap.
Where did you find these facts? It could also be possible that the scheduling adjustments reflect ongoing production challenges rather than demand issues. Who knows, other than Tesla?
Lawrence - what are the 3 best selling EVs currently in the US? Here is some words from a recent Inside EVs story: "Tesla rebounded after consecutive quarters of sales decline, thanks mainly to the Cybertruck and the refreshed Model 3. The automaker's sales were up 6.6% year over year in the third quarter as the Cybertruck is now the third best-selling electric car in the U.S. behind the Model Y and the Model 3. Tesla delivered 16,692 units of the stainless steel trapezoid in Q3 as its production ramps up at Gigafactory Texas. It has left its rivals in the dust. By comparison, Ford sold just 7,162 units of the F-150 Lightning, the second-best-selling electric truck in the U.S." Lawrence do a video about how shit the Ford F150 Lightning is doing compared to the Cybertruck.
Germany anno 2025: Wir schaffen das nicht, no LT vision, Woke and broke, far too expensive cars with endless option list, non transparant dealer maintenance, diesel gate, to many unions, historical dependance on Russian gas, no AI world leading company, made in Germany label already copied and improved in China etc..😢
Luxury cars, like luxury goods, have been making an exorbitant amount of money unproportionate to the real values of their goods, by selling their brands. It is time these companies go back to the basics by offering their goods and services with the quality and substance worthy of their prices.
Toyota have thrown in their towel on hydrogen. Their Mirai is a basket case. It's time for German legacy automakers to divert their investment into electric vehicles and stop vacillating.
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I´m german. And I can tell you, that everything has gone down here in the last 4 years...I feel like an alien in my country of origin for the 1st time in my life. I can only pray that things will get better in the next decade 🙏 I have no hope for things to change for the better in this decade...
I can assure you that it will get worse . . . till Europe gets to the level of African countries while, relatively, Asian nations will rise to the top.
Jai Hind. Good luck Indo-Aryan brethren from another Indian origin. Don't give up because we Indian origins are shining especially in the 5Eyes
now with the new government it will go down much faster. Trying to sell in the last millennium is quite difficult. And offering old technology in the Third Millennium will lead to 18 Mercedes sold last quarter in China, and 26 Porsche.
All directed by the UN to every western nation in lock step not by coincidence
Every western country excepted immigrants which increased their debt ceiling, which gave them the ability to draw against that line of credit which they did in lockstep around the world not by coincidence, and they put that money in their pockets. Now every western country is broke by design.
Go woke go broke. Applies to countries just as much as companies. Germany got conned. Not very smart.
I drive my ev and then go home. Why would I
want to jog over to a hydrogen station before
I go home? It's insane.
If you have a house EV is good investment, otherwise it is pure shit and it will even get more shit if people living in buildings have only option to buy an EV car. If car manufactures can only sell EVs to people who live in a house, then we can close 70% of car brands, there will be just no need for a car and only rich will drive them. Maybe if there is an infrastructure installed in all parking spots, so people can put them on charge, when they are home in their flat, but that is far far future. Do not come up with idea that there are charging stations. like gas stations, because if everyone is using EV car that is just not great to waste so much life sitting in a car while it is charging and waiting in a queues for a charge, especially it will be impossible during winter (double visit to charging station for same milage during summer). Only solution is every parking spot has a charger or they make batteries where you can drive real 800km, even after 10 years of using the EV car.
That's assuming that there is a hydrogen station within half a hydrogen tank drive away from your home. Otherwise, you would run out of hydrogen before you could get back home from your "fuel run". There are 74 hydrogen fueling stations in the US and many of them are frequently closed due to running out of hydrogen or other mechanical problems.
@@twostate7822 Don't worry! like ev super charging station hydrogen stations will also be there like gas stations after 10 years. You can buy that time not tomorrow.
@@albinkeranovic1741 You are absolutely right.
Compared to ICE the EV does not look good considering the massive investment in the charging network.
But don't you think it's easier to build the charging network than building the hydrogen transportation network and stations?
Every parking space can be converted to a charging station, maybe not the super fast charging that charges your car in 15 minutes, but it's totally OK to charge the car in several hours for most people.
@@JRK2024 Almost nobody is building hydrogen stations today, and there are more announced closings of hydrogen stations than new hydrogen stations being built.
Not unsurprisingly, there is no demand for hydrogen stations because virtually nobody is buying hydrogen vehicles. Then, who is going to be building the hydrogen production plants and transportation infrastructure which will take years when there is no demand?
There are around 35K EV charging stations with 200+K chargers with tens of thousands being built or in the planning stages every month or so. Plus tens of millions of houses and multi family buildings that have, or are capable of having EV chargers added.
They all thought that EVs would fail, so they did nothing for years, and now they have nowhere to go, but down
You're absolutely right 👍🏽 I feel sad for most of the automotive industries especially Toyota 😂😂
if it is chinese to do EV, then 99% chance success
@@Anarki-DanielToyata the biggest victim of sunken cost fallacy
They invested tens of billions in evs.
So such boring companies like Mercedes and Chevy sell the highest range, fastest charing EVs. Yet it is them, not the Chinese that have nowhere to go but down? Why is this channel only allowed to talk about the Chinese ones?
Lets face it, they are so behind the 8 ball in EVs that they are wishing the hydrogen platform will come along so they can be first movers. But we all know that it doesn't stack up. By the time Hydrogen becomes an available fuel, electric charging stations will be everywhere.
and gw charge speeds will be real, so ppl will actually charge faster then fill up a hydrogen tank.
lol you are clueless. BMW will reveal it's 800V EV platform next year, the EVs will have great efficiency without sacrificing exterior design, they will have good though not groundbreaking charging speeds and very big range. The concept of displaying shortcuts and small bits of information across the whole bottom of the windscreen is a refreshing way to implement a good infotainment system which does not only have a single screen mounted to the middle (+you still have an augmented reality HUD and the center screen).
The biggest irony, btw, is that China is currently the biggest producer of hydrogen and hydrogen fuel cells, and they're building increasingly larger hydrogen plants all the time. The hydrogen future already belongs to China. They're way ahead already.
Great, still the question why they invest in hydrogen ?
@bagheera32 The German gov't subsidizes hydrogen vehicle research. It's easy money.
BMW is playing some kind of a game, there is no way anyone would believe hydrogen is the future.
The name of their game is: Copium.
@@Scion2112 It's subsidies, Ivan. And you also posted this on the Ben Sullins thread
@@Scion2112 What abot supercities? I mean, will they stop?
Hydrogen requires a high level of service and cost just as much to make. They are trying to keep everyone employed and not shrink their org. Hydrogen works better for BMW than its customers.
Hydrogen has worked out so well for Toyota.
The old adage: "You either make history, or you become history". For modern corporations, it's always over-promise and under-deliver.
German automakers are fighting on every front except innovation. Their efforts must be quickly redirected or they are history. (Detroit Big Three... are you listening?)
Lol literally german car manufacturers are among the most innovative. If you count in the german car suppliers and throw them in a pot together with the car manufacturers, then this group would be the most innovative in the automotive industry
@@Aztasu😂For example, a 3000 CAD blind spot radar which manufacture cost is around 50 CAD or less? I mean what kind of kick back they had hand out to Toyota sourcing team to win the bid?
@@Aztasu Ancient history.
They have spent tens of billions on ev research. You are pushing the narrative that has nothing to do with reality.
So the Detroit big three are already ancient history even when their Silverado with 511 mile range and 200kW charging speed beats every Chinese car?
Hydrogen stored at 700 bar (approximately 10,000 PSI) raises significant safety concerns as it is an extremely high pressure gas that could become dangerous if containment systems fail. Any sensible person will argue that given the energy density and flammability of hydrogen, combined with the risks associated with storing it at such high pressures in vehicles, this is akin to a 'moving bomb'.
😂They say the same thing to EV. Because of the battery pack. Toronto transit commission actually ban electric scooter owner bring their scooter to the bus.
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
@@Joa-y4y They are non sensical though from an energy efficiency point of view. The amount of energy needed to produce Hydrogen which then has a 40% efficiency is a massive waste of energy and recourses. Far better to use electricity directly.
@@Ryalonor47 Exactly, the phrase in Chinese would be to drop your pants before you fart.
So, people might not have noticed this yet, but the 5 biggest hydrogen production plants and the biggest fuel cell producers are all Chinese. The Chinese themselves are betting big on a hydrogen economy too. It's just for them hydrogen is tied to the power industry, not the car industry. The Chinese companies making hydrogen infrastructure are all power companies. What they want to do is use hydrogen as mobile storage for electricity generated by renewables.
What this really means is that even if the Euro-Japanese hydrogen future pans out somehow, they'd already be a decade behind China by the time it does.
Hydrogen absolutely got its uses, think of the steel industry that needs really high temperatures in which China is the dominant player. Also, Launghall Ocean Shipping and Space Exploration is a good candidate. But road transport no, battery-powered vehicles are much more efficient, and the distribution network you need for hydrogen is a nightmare.
The Chinese are more serious in green energy than anyone else so they develop various types and create supply chains for all those they bet on
@@gerbenkarman3372 Very informative comments from both of you.
A hydrogen bomb on 4 wheels. Not very attractive.
Let someone from Germany who has dealt with this explain it to you:
Research on hydrogen vehicles is heavily subsidized in Germany.
Hydrogen research is, therefore, purely about taking advantage of government funding.
No matter what the outcome is (nothing in this case).
Hydrogen has been a research project for 20 years with billions sunk into it already, we still don't have viable products and infrastructure and you can safely bet we never will.
Oh, this makes sense now.
Thanks for letting us know but most people are pretty stupid
There are more use cases to hyrogen than just passenger cars
Sounds just like EV's and every other green scheme .
These legacy companies are trying to baffle us with bullshit.🤦
Dont worry BMW is in the 5 stages of grief currently there are in the denial phase where they refuse to acknowledge the present and continue to denial the outcome.
Check the flexible disk history on computers.
This is really similar.
The problem is when you are so attached to your success that you can't go out of it. The other newer companies in China have been better prepared to deal with the change.
In fact, look at it. BYD and Geely are relatively new compared with FAW and DongFeng. And the newer are advancing better in this game.
In the late 1980's I remember when a a news reporter did a story for a new invention, a hydrogen powered car. I remember he even drank the exhaust which was water. I was so impressed.
that was the catch...build hydrogen car and water (H2O) comes out your tailpipe. What they didnt tell you is that "we produce ALL hydrogen via methane gas reforming". So the fossil fuel industry alternative to cars powered by oil was cars powered by natural gas. Win win for them and lose lose for the planet.
You are dead right on hydrogen. It will not feature in road transport in the future for cars or trucks.
The Toyato Marri has 3 hydrogen tanks for a range of 600km.
Those 3 10,000psi bombs are located between the driver and passenger, under the rear seats (really safe for kids) and in the trunk where a spare wheel would normally be.
This is a hydrogen fuel cell car, and i hear idiots talking hydrogen combustion which is half as efficient as a fuel cell.
You need 6 tanks on the Toyota Mirri to get 600km if you had hydrogen combustion.
Where are you going to put thr extra 3 tank?
Nowhere probably, which means you will have 300km of range.
This is the future these idiots ate proposing.
And wind drag will cost you a 100km not to mention jacking up the centre of gravity. 😊
I think Toyota is actually giving those cars away now.
There is areally cool graph that I found which shows 4 cars accessing 100 kWh of electricity. So the 100 kWhr is the same at the left side of the graph for each of the 4 cars, the Tesla M3, Tesla MS, Toyota Mirai and BMW Hydrogen 7.
For the 2 Teslas, there are transmission losses and DC charging losses, so that 85kWhr is what gets to the car. The M3 can travel 459km with that amount of charge. The MS gets 405km.
The Mirai and BMW see the process of electrolysis, compression, compression to tanker, and finally refuelling, so that only 57 kWhr gets to both cars. So for all 4 cars it is making the same assumption that you need to generate electricity, which comes at a cost.
The Mirai then gets 173km from the 100 kWhr electricity. The BMW only gets 46km.
This is why EVs will win and hydrogen will lose. The EV feeds straight from the grid and with 15% losses. Hydrogen cars lose 43% of the electricity, plus there are significant costs in getting that electricity to your car. Then after it arrives, the hydrogen car is so much less efficient.
The issue is that this inefficiency can't be fixed. That is why hydrogen cars were never an option to begin with.
@@zoransarin5411 Yes, exactly. Battery technology has essentially killed hydrogen and even ICE. Even electric planes are on the horizon.
@@zoransarin5411😂And, if I remeber correctly, you are losing 2% hydrogen by mass every week wether you use the car or not. I am still believing hydrogen will be the ultimate answer as our fuel. But it will be in a relative distant future. It will be either in Fuel cell or better compact fusion reactor. Not ICE, very unlikely. Turbo shaft will be questionable as well.
Who wants to drive a passenger vehicle with compressed Hydrogen gas at 10,000 psi. Not me. I can charge my EV for free at home anytime I wish.
@@Scion2112 Solar Panels
I charge my e-bike for free directly off one solar panel. Soon enough I'll charge an EV off the rest of my solar panels. No matter what, I and others can charge their EVs at home. Nobody, other than farmers, have the ability to put gasoline in their cars at home.
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
@@Joa-y4yJust the principle is daft.
Use hydrogen to produce energy to power up a car.
Hydrogen that takes more energy to be produced, that is hard to store and distribute instead of just putting energy in.
Charging and batteries are developing all the time making the advantages of hydrogen smaller and smaller while the fundamental disadvantages are going nowhere.
Maybe some form of heavy machinery can make sense but personal vehicles.....just dont.
Not everyone lives in a family house or has access to charge the car from home
Hydrogen fool cells 😂
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
Good one
@@Joa-y4ystupid fuel.
BEV: Electricity -> battery -> motor
Hydrogen Vehicles:
Electricity (for RO) + fresh water -> Treated water.
Treated water + electricity -> Hydrogen gas + heat.
Hydrogen gas + electricity -> compressed hydrogen + heat.
Compressed hydrogen + transportation -> H2 in Vehicle gas tank.
H2 in vehicle gas tank + Fuel cell -> electricity + water + heat.
electricity -> small battery -> motor
That sums it up
It’s simply a distraction for the public, as BMW’s NEV plans run into delays (note $2 Billion battery cancellation with NorthVolt etc.). If they were serious, they would invest in distribution.
There are no delays, the new EV-only "Neue Klasse" platform will be revealed in summer next year
Hydrogen in Germany is a topic for 30 years, not just ten.
Dont worry everyone BMW is in the 5 stages of grief currently there are in the denial phase where they refuse to acknowledge the present and continue to denial the outcome.
The Mini is built in Oxford in England. i cannot see why BMW are doing Hydrogen fuels!! im sure you done a video on Canada fuel stations closing their hydrogen pumps as it cost too much to make and transport! keep up the great content
Hydrogen will be useful as a fuel…. 100 years from now in plasma rocket engines to Mars. Not in passenger cars.
How about compact fusion reactor
@@林振华-t4v Fusion reactors simply don't generate electricity. Just forget about it.
Hydrogen charging is not an 'advantage' because with EVs, you can sometimes just drive home and hook it up over night, without needing to go to a gas station.
Mining lithium is a water guzzling real toxic pollution metal, our ocean species will not survive due to all the lithium people and there phones, cars and all there electronics need.
We have to stop this lithium shenanigans, lithium cars are a nuclear disaster every year in the making, the mining of it and recycling of it are truly the worst pollution to the planets water, ocean and air due to the toxic chemicals used to mine it!
It is way more expensive to recycle a lithium battery than to mine it, the pollution it causes to the planets ocean is not sustainable, its like a nuclear chernobl to the planets ocean every year.
Secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere.
Due to the heavy toxins and pollution in mining lithium, when a lithium car is still in the company assembly line it has already polluted more than a hydrogen fuel cell car that has been on the road for more than 125000 miles!
There are many green hydrogen plants being built around the globe at the moment, by 2030 green hydrogen will be so abundant that it will stop lithium car companies at there tracks, this is why BMW and many big car companies are canceling lithium pollution cars!
Hindenburg!!
The smallest molecule is just too difficult to deal with.
Here's an idea: If they want to develop a breakthrough vehicle technology with fast refueling, why not work on battery swapping?
NIO - implementing it now. It's the clear way forward for EVs
The new kia ev6 charges from 10-80% in 17min... In reality we don't need faster charging than that. There are already trucks that charge 350kw flat all the way to 100% (because of the big buffer at the end).
Going Hydrogen in Cars and Trucks is like a Farmer growing Animals and then instead of sending those animals to be turned into meat to eat for Humans, instead he turns them all into fertiliser to grow Plants that are then made available for Vegans to eat.
Lol. ❤
The new hydrogen cars are remarkable most people that comment don`t due research on how far hydrogen cars have come and are the safest cars now to drive on the road, they are being built with carbon fiber hydrogen tanks that are super strong for impact and make it very safe to drive plus they have super hydrogen leak sensors, the are safer to drive than people standing next to another bomb which is ones BBQ propane grill tank! and even safer than the combustion oil car!
@@Joa-y4y What a load of garbage, what research have you done, none or you wouldn't have made that comment, anyone with a brain and actually does do the research finds exactly the same result that I did and that everyone that buys a Hydrogen car and then feels like a sucker after their free fuel period runs out.
Hydrogen is a joke and requires not only the Electricity to produce the Hydrogen but the transport hub required to transport all produced fuels, EV is the only system where the infrastructure is already in place and for every thousand EVS worth of recharge they can only produce enough Hydrogen for 850 cars and that isn't counting the cost of the fuel required for the transport, it's a nonsensical idea and will never become a main form of transport, people will be laughing about Hydrogen cars for decades to come.
The comparison 😂 Are you German?
@@markuc Dutch :)
Even after Toyota’s debacle with the Mirai, BMW is going to double down on HFCVs. Incredible!
Bmw hydrogen move was way B4 Toyota dip their toe in the bussiness. Bmw start their hydrogen dream as early as 1977 when they make the first hydrogen 7 in a e28 chassis. It is metioned in BoSch automotive hand book.
I did part of my Thesis for my master's on hydrogen powered vehicles and I can tell you hydrogen will not take off for at least another 30+ years (if ever) as there are so many issues with producing the hydrogen and compressing it. It's massively inefficient with losses every step of the way. Not to mention there is little to no infrastructure for hydrogen. Overall Hydrogen definitely isn't going to take over anytime soon.
Hydrogen? Unless BMW has figured out something the rest of the world hasn't that is really a dumb thing to believe.
There are more use cases to hyrogen than just passenger cars
@@Aztasu How many of them involve BMW?
That's probably the point, they're thinking it's such a difficult problem only they can solve it and then germany has it made. Ignoring the generations of engineers and politicians who have already tried before them
Hydrogen vehicle research is subsidized by the German gov't, so having a hydrogen vehicle program gets them free money. With some creative accounting it's easy to siphon off most of that money to pay for other stuff.
Germans are inventers,they not care what china or the USA does..they do what they like,and invent and innovate...machines,guns,cars,atomicbombs,rockets.dieselengines..where all invented by Germans...and many other Things..😂😂
The funny thing is, China is also the largest producer and consumer of hydrogen, and pretty much every other forms of renewable storage.
China is fueling Germany car maker money in the past, now money dried up from china, they are realising with the other market including home is not making as much more. Option is now is cut down as much production cost and hang on to existing buyer at the declining rate even putting hope to everyone the alternative fuel like hydrogen is the way to go…wishful thinking!
They have the chance. China had put out the current emission standard long ago. They did not react. Now this. But cant blame them, everything was nice and cozy till 2023 when we reach the tipping point. Who wouldve foresee that happens so quickly
@@林振华-t4v "Who would have foreseen..." - well, apparently someone at BMW were "on the ball" way back when they launched the i3, which I'm told is still a pretty good EV (I did find it funny though when it came out that it has really narrow wheels for a BMW, while the LEAF had pretty wide ones).
As we've seen with VW and the ousting of Diess, I suspect the same political game has taken place in BMW, ousting or sidelining those who wanted to bet on EVs earlier. BMW seem to be doing reasonably well on the EV front lately, judging by what I see on Norwegian roads, but it's possible that they're not very profitable...
Hydrogen is just a desperate hope to keep their factories basically the same with the same suppliers. Sad.
Even our small company is building covered parking spots with solar on top and 2 charging stations, Chinese of course. You park your car for 8 hours 5 days a week and you can charge.
The ruth is... Can the banks afford to lose that kind of money.. If these legacy auto makers that owe billions can't meet their financial obligations... what happens to the banks hedge funds stock market... around the world if these companies go belly up?????
Too big to fail... Western corporate socialism. With the impoverished middle class taxpayer footing the bill
I have Rooftop Solar. Charge Point, EV. Done. 😅A hectare Solar produces 1 Million kWh per year. In Nederland.
An EV goes 6 km per kWh. 6 Million km per hectare Solar along the Highway. BMW must be Crazy.
Transportation & Storage of Hydrogen is still a major issue at present . Hydrogen embrittlement is a potential hazard
on metal pipes & metal containers leakages that has not been solved up to now . Toyota has been working on this for
many years . Hydrogen Trucks and Buses are possible if they can be refueled in the same Hydrogen Stations everyday .
You mean BMW is next to fall over after VW? B.t.w. I saw a BMW hydrogen car in the RAI Car Exhibition 20 years ago and it was extremely complicated. Made no sense at all.
There are more use cases to hyrogen than just passenger cars
@@Aztasu yet the topic here is BMW's apparent insistence on going with H2 for cars. Oh and there have been H2 city bus projects too, that ended up scrapping the H2 buses due to high running costs, replacing them with electric buses...
H2 for transportation was the "Next Big Thing" 20 years ago too, when the oil company I worked at (IT contractor) bought a bunch of H2 company cars and opened a filling station "next door" at the local gas station.
Now the "H2 is the Next Big Thing" chorus is louder than ever even though not much has changed, because the EV surge has the fossil fuel world worried.
Oh and the local H2 station is long gone.... there are only two H2 stations in Norway now, and one is privately owned by a grocery distributor and not open to the public.
Who are trying to con with these claims? Gullible politicians? BMW are not totally stupid so there must be an agenda.
Politicians aren't totally stupid?
What country do you live in??
They are stupidly greedy. The hydrogen agenda comes from gas and oil companies. They plan to produce hydrogen from gas and oil and are actively buying politicians to lobby.
I think they are not stupid, they are doing it for their own benefits.
@@undisclosedthai Maybe in Germany. You can discuss the merrits of former Bundeskanzlers, but Angela Merkel is literally a Dr./PhD of quantum physics.
It is kind of surprising to see a country elect people who are known incompetent. Like: Why the heck are they doing that??
Japan has spend at least a decade on Hydrogen, it didn't work well.
This madness ( thinking hydrogen is viable for a car) is easy to explain. The Fossil Fuel industry makes hydrogen as a by product. And they have a well funded promotion industry ( to get subsidies etc.) Politicians have been fooled to believe it makes sense, and offer tax-payers money as an incentive to do research into hydrogen. It benefits no-one but the Oil Industry...
My guesses
1. Want to be independent from China and/or Chinese batteries
2. Don't want to wait long for charging or can't stand to wait
Calling hydrogen cars renewable--meaning it's green energy--reminds me of a billboard sign I saw advertising rum and saying zero calories. Sure, while it's in the bottle it has zero calories, but once your liver gets a hold of it and converts it back into sugar, you might as well be drinking maple syrup for all the calories there are. I'm sure you know, it takes loads of non-renewable energy to get the hydrogen into the tanks at the hydrogen stations.
Mining lithium is a water guzzling real toxic pollution metal, our ocean species will not survive due to all the lithium people and there phones, cars and all there electronics need.
We have to stop this lithium shenanigans, lithium cars are a nuclear disaster every year in the making, the mining of it and recycling of it are truly the worst pollution to the planets water, ocean and air due to the toxic chemicals used to mine it!
It is way more expensive to recycle a lithium battery than to mine it, the pollution it causes to the planets ocean is not sustainable, its like a nuclear chernobl to the planets ocean every year.
Secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere.
Due to the heavy toxins and pollution in mining lithium, when a lithium car is still in the company assembly line it has already polluted more than a hydrogen fuel cell car that has been on the road for more than 125000 miles!
There are many green hydrogen plants being built around the globe at the moment, by 2030 green hydrogen will be so abundant that it will stop lithium car companies at there tracks, this is why BMW and many big car companies are canceling lithium pollution cars!
Mmmmm. Maple syrup. Mmmm.
Hydrogen ? Because Germany cannot make batteries competitively. Toyota say that too.
Sam. You should take a look at BMWs new case study. If teleportation is possible within a radius of 1000miles what you look for in a car. BMW is preparing for all scenarios especially when transportation costs drops drastically due to Robo taxis, driverless cars, car free city requirements. BMW is looking at designing a car which people will still desire in a world like this.
6:51 L in LPG means Liquid. That's why it can be measured in liters, although at pressure, you pump liquid into the tank.
Edit: regarding the main topic, the weird thing is that BMW EVs are actually good and reasonably priced, they should tout them...
Lots of problems with H2, including the high cost of production and storage. It's a wasteful complication as batteries do a good job without the waste.
There is also an issue with fugitive H2. In significant concentration it is explosive. In lesser concentrations it drifts to the top of the atmosphere where it potentially could interfere with the ozone layer or simply drift off into space. In short, it's unsustainable.
🔥🔥Hindenburg 🔥🔥🔥
I used to love the idea of a hydrogen future. As a kid. In the 70's. :)
I hope people do develop the tech. further actually - maybe it'll find useful applications.
For 99% of private-ownership cars or fleets of self-driving cars though I lack the imagination to see how it could displace BEV's in an engineering/economics sense, as they scale further and the technology is still on a rapid pathway of improvement. Politics of course doesn't really care about engineering realities, so who knows?
EVM just reviewed a Chinese built Mini and panned it. BMW can't outsource the design and build without risking losing what makes their brand desirable.
Hydrogen talk goes on now for long time and still nothing moved on. On EV space, more and more cars are on the street. When I saw tech is changing back in 2022 I sold my Audi and first went to rentig Tesla for 6 months beforr buying one. I dont look back. It is just great to use, way more then a loud diesel.
Sounds like BMW is doing a Toyota like dummy spit and it's unwilling to face reality of their dire situation. Near nobody wants hydrogen cars. If BMW is doubling down on hydrogen while BEVs dominate consumer demand, it could be perceived as stubbornness or a failure to adapt to market realities.
Totally agree with your thinking , another fact full vlog 👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
you seems to be a true realist 💯👍
Hydrogen is the future. But 20-30 years later when it is relaible, cheap and available.
Wrong. Hydrogen has 2 problems. Firstly it is expensive to produce. Secondly, hydrogen cars are as efficient as ICE cars, around 25%. EVs are at around 80+%.
So to produce hydrogen you need to use electricity, then you need to do a lot more to get it to the filling station. Then the car using it is inefficient.
Take the same electricity needed to make hydrogen, save a fortune transmitting it as the infrastructure is already there and doesn't need further processing, then put it in a car which uses it far more efficiently, and this is why hydrogen will never win for passenger cars. Much more costly and much more inefficient.
By way of example, it has been estimated that using 100kWh of electricity, a Tesla Model 3 will travel 459km.
That same 100kWh of electricity will get a Toyota Mirai 173km and a BMW Hydrogen 7 46km.
This is why EVs will win and hydrogen will lose. The EV feeds straight from the grid and with 15% losses. Hydrogen cars lose 43% of the electricity, plus there are significant costs in getting that electricity to your car. Then after it arrives, the hydrogen car is so much less efficient.
The issue is that this inefficiency can't be fixed. That is why hydrogen cars were never an option to begin with.
@@zoransarin5411 that is why i said 30 years later. Hydrogen can be used in space easily.
@@Yooo47that’s what he said. Solar = free.. no heavy tanks, no micro puncturing of highly pressurised tanks by space particles/debris, etc. you can’t make hydrogen in space. You have to take it there from earth.
@@iscadean6038 true, solar is great for operation of station. but for rocket propulsion or high energy density, hydrogen is must. (as clean energy ofcourse)
BMW innovation: make the grills bigger. Mercedes innovation: make the logo bigger and put mood lighting everywhere.
Hydrogen powered cars are awesome, but they will still need electric motors to drive the wheels. But by the time they get a stable solution for hydrogen, battery technology will have improved where the benefits of hydrogen might be a wash.
Mining lithium is a water guzzling real toxic pollution metal, our ocean species will not survive due to all the lithium people and there phones, cars and all there electronics need.
We have to stop this lithium shenanigans, lithium cars are a nuclear disaster every year in the making, the mining of it and recycling of it are truly the worst pollution to the planets water, ocean and air due to the toxic chemicals used to mine it!
It is way more expensive to recycle a lithium battery than to mine it, the pollution it causes to the planets ocean is not sustainable, its like a nuclear chernobl to the planets ocean every year.
Secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere.
Due to the heavy toxins and pollution in mining lithium, when a lithium car is still in the company assembly line it has already polluted more than a hydrogen fuel cell car that has been on the road for more than 125000 miles!
There are many green hydrogen plants being built around the globe at the moment, by 2030 green hydrogen will be so abundant that it will stop lithium car companies at there tracks, this is why BMW and many big car companies are canceling lithium pollution cars!
Legacy manufacturers are reluctant to go EV I think for one reason in particular…….showrooms and service centres rely on servicing vehicles to keep the buildings running, vehicle sales do not hold up the franchises and pay for the buildings, the workshop is the area of profit, parts and servicing.
Without the need for regular maintenance the workshops won’t survive on warranty work alone, plus reducing the requirement for mechanics, there needs to be some rethinking on the manufacturers part and the automotive industry is in for some hurt and pain during this transition.
Good research
Hydrogen is based on the Vampire business model which has served Oil so well. You can't get it at home so you have to come to our hydrogen outlets where we can manipulate Prices by constraining Supply or saying the cost of manufacture fluctuates so much price gouging ...sorry prices will never be stable.
Sam always “knocks” hybrids. But he’s an Aussie in Newcastle NSW so he absolutely knows that hybrids of the non plug-in type have been selling like hot-cakes here in Australia. Yet he doesn’t mention it. Why? BEV sales plateaued at 8% in Jan 2023 and have stayed at that level since. It seems that few people here are interested in pure battery cars. But hybrids are going gangbusters. For example it is now an 18 month wait for a non plug-in hybrid Toyota RAV4 and 12 months for a non plug-in Camry hybrid. I was in two brand new non plug-in hybrid Camry’s (UBERs) last weekend, both in Brisbane and I was quite impressed. The drivers said they are averaging 4.5 lts/100 km (53 mpg) which meant $25 per 500 km (300 miles).
A relative recently purchased a Prius non plug-in hybrid here in the US and as a EV only guy I was quite impressed with it and now understand what Toyota is talking about regarding hybrids. He gets 50-60 miles per gallon and has some of the benefits of an EV without the worry of charging. The Prius has regenerative braking that recharges the battery and it has the EV acceleration because it has an electric motor for torque. If you do the math: To drive 250 miles in Prius 4.16 gallons at $3.00 gallon= $12.48. To go 250 miles in our VW ID.4: 77 kWh battery size X .$18 KWH =$13.86. At current gas and electricity prices in the US the Prius is cheaper to fuel than our EV! There is not much advantage in fuel savings for a pure EV over a hybrid. And if you can't charge at home there is no advantage for an EV.
Ev sales will continue to grow until others get wise about how limited ev s are in general use. Range anxiety is hardly an issue with ice cars. Evs are fine in cities if they are charged at home and are kept away from buildings and other cars, due to fire risk.
Speak to anyone who knows their chemistry and you’ll soon realise how complex and expensive it is to make the hydrogen needed to power vehicles…then add in the explosion risk and the complete absence of refuelling infrastructure and you should understand that it’s a dead end idea! Economics have already decided our future transportation!
Hydrogen is an option it's just as advanced as battery. Lithium isn't a finite resource
I've worked with hydrogen fired furnaces and I can tell you that whilst hydrogen is a great fuel from the point of emissions it is very difficult to work with. All of Europe made stupid claims about clean diesel that every engineer knew where marginal at best. Hydrogen is in the same boat. Maybe we can get "green" hydrogen and we can overcome distribution and refuelling issues but we must look long and hard at this whole prospect before le aping into another dieselgate scenario. For now, the nightmare of EU ev public charging needs to be coherently addressed. Let's get something right before creating a new "challenge".
only 65 hydrogen fuel stations in Germany, most have enough to fill 50 cars before needing hydrogen refill.. UK has about 12 public available refuel stations, most around London, 1 in Scotland, none in Wales none in Ireland. None in Spain, Portugal and Italy. I think 1 or 2 in Denmark.
I`ts the maintenance costs which will destroy Hydrogen cars, they need aircraft grade parts to survive the micro fractures which plague high pressure storage, the cost of the parts is very very expensive.
Very good ! ... BMW decision to go on the hydrogen route will further pull them down and they will never recover again ! ...
Hard to understand any manufacturer wanting to use hydrogen. It’s hard to make, hard to transport, and requires such specialized equipment to dispense. And there is currently no infrastructure for it, and I don’t see the big oil companies running to start building them. 🤷♂️
Iceland had Hydrogen Fuel Cell Public transportation for decades. But they literally had free Geo Thermo generator all over the country. It work out pretty well for them.
Toyota was doing it because they got some subsidies from the Government, and they are also exploring different path for Japan. Japan believe there is no possible way to overhaul their electric grid to do a full EV adoption.
But why is BMW pursuing this route is beyond my comprehension.
You need to consider the effects of decoupling - if trade between EU and China stops (e.g. due to China attacking Taiwan), batteries will be the limiting factor of EV production.
BMW just plays it safe here...
The country of Germany is world-reknowned for its prowess in engineering. Same with Japan. It is truly sad that hubris has caused these great industrial nations to firmly place their collective heads up their butts when it comes to innovation of EV's. It's not too late but there is urgent need to re-think, re-tool and innovate...
EVER HERE OF THE HINDENBURG.😮
Hydrogen belongs to power plants, ships, big airplanes. Battery EV belongs to passenger cars, trucks, busses. The reason is the cost of H2 compressor is $1M. Gas station cannot afford to install H2 compressor. SSB will solve driving range, safety, and charge time at 2nd level charge station. Every gas station will become 2nd level charge station.
Yup nail it you did man o man what have Germany been smoking what ever it is can't be legal .
Hydrogen is a niche product. Maybe someone will figure out a lower energy way to create hydrogen from water or other hydrogen containing substance. However, it will always take energy to do that. Hydrogen is a storage medium, like a battery. It might have its uses, but I'll be shocked if it's a significant factor in cars in the next 20 years.
Lol, BMW has been smoking something good
can you talk about byd electric cars (dolphin, dolphin mini) regular maintenance? Why does BYD require frequent maintenance in pure electric cars while Tesla doesnt?
You are talking about nonsense
@@mingouczjcz3800 why? they have their first maintainance at 5000 kms, then every 12,000 kms, its published in their website and warranty manual...
I think Tesla cars are designed to be almost maintenance-free, but other EVs are not.
The last gen Tesla Model 3 is the worst EV in terms of maintenance for the second time in a row in Germany btw
@@Aztasu What are you talking about? Do you have one? Tesla is the brand with the cheapest maintainance paid by car owners of all. I have a 1 year model Y with almost 30,000 kms and havent spent a penny... Most of these comments are from people that have never owned one and just believe whatever the media says...
Costs of production folks - China is a coal powered economy and the labour costs are low and the manufacturers went all in on electric and were supported to do so (please don't think ICE car manufacturers don't get subsidies as well!) but the ultimate truth is that making something in China is so much cheaper. Car factories use huge amounts of power, the German government ran an energy plan based on Russian Gas - that has gone south and now electricity in Germany is crazy high priced while the unions demand ever higher wages and shorter weeks.
Battery burns, Hydrogen boom!
Is the problem with hydrogen refueling the same with the toyota metal hydride storage idea, or power paste developed by fraunhoffer ?
I think BMW talking of hydrogen fueled vehicles is an excuse for the fact that it can't compete with Tesla and potentially Zeekr and Xpeng.
@3:16 "The electric ones were worse they just got rid of all the hydrogen". That just doesn't make sense.
Turboes, injection, v8, and engine eletronic was a big sales point.
Because of this, they could hire more workers. But, why do you need this? An EV is faster, and better. Electric motors are way better. And, with the battery prices soaring, everyone can get a cheap car with a more powerful motor, than the breaks can handle.
Christian von köenigsegg sayed that with EV's, the drive line isn't a sale pitch.
I recently spoke with a sales rep (with a science & engineering background) from one of the biggest industrial gas suppliers (that supplies all the major mines in Australia). I asked him about the process and cost of producing hydrogen, and he basically laughed at me.
He said that nobody or company are willing to put money in the production of hydrogen, because it's crazy expensive. Who is going to invest and what guarantees will they get for the investment?
Storage and transport of Hydrogen is the biggest problem, and it doesn't appear that BMW have made any substantial progress in this area. In fact, we are still at the same roadblock we were at in 1980 when another German carmaker abandoned it's efforts to produce a hydrogen-powered car.
Battery power is already better that Hydrogen will ever be, and batteries are getting better year on year. Hydrogen storage is not getting better.
Sam. Do you remember the iDrive BMW launched in the 7 series way back. Take a look at their new iDrive coming on the iDrive. China has starting work on duplicating it.
Another interesting strategy is where BMW is looking at what the first space vehicles privately owned would be like.
In 39 years owning a private space based 'corvette' (a private space craft for in system travel) will be a reality and bmw looking at this already.
Never gloss over BMWs strategy. These guys are different than any other car company.
So BMW say future is EV. But with fuel cell instead of the battery. It make more sense to me, you will not have to think about long charging time and longevity of your battery. And it will be easier to make hydrogen filling stations than to electrify whole Europe road network.
Nothing like continuing to strike, And escalating the speed for the company to close. Better to take a small pay decrees then have no job.
The only way hydrogen works is if they can cut the size of the latest technological hydrogen generator from the size of a house to the size of a fridge. And cut the huge amount of electricity it costs to generate hydrogen.
Hydrogen will never work.
Hydrogen fuel? Probably however big problem is the source , how to harvest it n what would happen to the environment! 😅😅😅
Meanwhile there is a scandal in sweden, the Nio cars are so bad and full of bugs that customers wanted to return the car, but got arrested due to Nio being in debt not paying their govt fees. China cars are utter crap.
Sam do a video about Tesla sending workers on the CT production line home for three days because there is no demand for the truck.
Absolute nonsense, no one knows why they are doing this and you are just trying to push your pathetic trolling.
Where did you find these facts? It could also be possible that the scheduling adjustments reflect ongoing production challenges rather than demand issues. Who knows, other than Tesla?
@ yahoo finance article
Lawrence - what are the 3 best selling EVs currently in the US? Here is some words from a recent Inside EVs story:
"Tesla rebounded after consecutive quarters of sales decline, thanks mainly to the Cybertruck and the refreshed Model 3. The automaker's sales were up 6.6% year over year in the third quarter as the Cybertruck is now the third best-selling electric car in the U.S. behind the Model Y and the Model 3. Tesla delivered 16,692 units of the stainless steel trapezoid in Q3 as its production ramps up at Gigafactory Texas. It has left its rivals in the dust. By comparison, Ford sold just 7,162 units of the F-150 Lightning, the second-best-selling electric truck in the U.S."
Lawrence do a video about how shit the Ford F150 Lightning is doing compared to the Cybertruck.
Excellent fake news.
Germany anno 2025: Wir schaffen das nicht, no LT vision, Woke and broke, far too expensive cars with endless option list, non transparant dealer maintenance, diesel gate, to many unions, historical dependance on Russian gas, no AI world leading company, made in Germany label already copied and improved in China etc..😢
Luxury cars, like luxury goods, have been making an exorbitant amount of money unproportionate to the real values of their goods, by selling their brands. It is time these companies go back to the basics by offering their goods and services with the quality and substance worthy of their prices.
I mean years and years of warnings
Toyota have thrown in their towel on hydrogen. Their Mirai is a basket case. It's time for German legacy automakers to divert their investment into electric vehicles and stop vacillating.
Northvolt EV battery Sam knows 10 billion or more bmw canceled their orders in around July I think and the company never recovered