What you are not understanding is records that have been pressed toward the end of the stampers limit sounds exactly like what you are hearing and the far down the stampers get as they are being made of the mother the more they will sound just like your LP. The earlier the the stamper and the first pressings off it will always sound the best. Check the stamper that was used in the matrix #'s for example on the RCA record you have from 1963 the first pressings from the first stampers will have a "1S" in the matrix # in the trail off area. The higher this number gets the more the quality will degrade during pressings, example a "2S" is the second stamper as the "1S" has become worn and therefore the "2S' stamper will be now a generation down and will lose some sound quality. You may have a "8S, "9S" or higher stamper for your pressing and will sound degraded. This is why collectors will search for 1st pressings because the first stamper is a close you will get to the original analogue tape quality. The LP you were cleaning in the video most like was pressed with either a later stamper or or very a poor vinyl mixture as in the mid 70's some plants tooks their LPs that didn't sell well and crushed them up labels and all and recycled the vinyl during the oils shortage and this vinyl is very noise from the contaminants from the recycled vinyl.
Theoretical toss-up; A thoroughly beat-up early press or a mint later one? Swings and roundabouts but neither is totally satisfying. Best of both worlds would be mint early but good luck with that one! And you're definitely on the button about poor vinyl compounds; it was the constant and unmanageable battle with the Rice Krispies that drove us, in the early eighties, to the silent backgrounds of CD. Shame we threw the baby away with the musical bathwater but that's another story......
@electrajojo Thank you for your comment. At the beginning of your comment you wrote „records that have been pressed toward the end of the stampers limit“ but later your say „the 2S‘ stampers will be now a generation down and will lose some sound quality“. So are there two effects working at the same time?
I'm much calmer about it these days as I realise it's a choice I can make; if I want silent backgrounds I can go digital. Back in the day, though, record noise drove me up the wall as vinyl was the only quality medium we had access to and we were stuck with the Rice Krispies factory!
Nice try! It’s so frustrating when you invest the time and attention to detail to care for your vinyl but it doesn’t come out as you’d hoped. I’ve learned a lot from your channel. Keep up the great work.
I’m so relieved that all that hard work did not completely remove the pops and cracks. Otherwise, I would have to go through the same route which would take all my time and a lot of money. 😂 I’m now content with a single stage vacuum cleaning. 😁 Seriously, many thanks for the hard work you’ve put in to the video which was very informative. 👍
This video is a nice example of the Pareto 20/80 rule. 20% of that effort got 80% of the result. The other 80% of effort got 20% of the improvement. I'm a single stage vacuum cleaner as well. If second hand vinyl has visible grunge, it will get a Spin-clean prior.
This is when I digitize the record at 2496, and open it in Audition 3.01 on my Win 7 machine, and repair it. Never a problem, but I've been doing this for over 20 years. Carry on...
I go a step further with 24 Bit 192 kHz and use Audacity 7.0.1 to clean up artifacts and the files sound terrific. There is software out there called VinylStudio that does a great job as well.
The money you put in on your record cleaning process is commendable!! I have a similar process minus the Loricraft (can't afford that) I have Champagne ears on a beer budget. Vinyl Vac method pre clean, Vevor Ultrasonic, then vinyl vac rinse and vacuum. You certainly are not doing anything wrong. It's the pressing, I have run into a few that look absolutely perfect and sound terrible, I have other records that look like they should be thrown away but play perfectly (no snap crackle or pop) The Rabbit hole is deep my friend!
I have had records purchased new that had stubborn pops that I was unable to clean. So I would buy another new copy that sometimes is quieter, but other times has the same noise in exactly the same place. I suspect it is flaws in the plating process that become part of the stamper and therefore part of the signal on the record that can not ever be cleaned off.
Incredible video, thank you for your well thought out efforts. If this didn't get out the pops and clicks I think it is fair to say probably nothing will so you can sleep easy at night. I believe the defects might be dust and crud that found it's way onto the stampers or possibly a cheap vinyl formula. I have opened brand new records from the 70's that play noisy from the first needle drop with no amount of cleaning helping the situation. Thank you for your contribution to the hobby.
I love your cleaning methods. I only own 1 vinyl album so far, but I have bought the vpi, KLAudio and the Loricraft to make sure it stays brand new. My album is a 2023 Reissue of Kind Of Blue. I make sure that I run it through my cleaning regimen after every play. So far it still sounds amazing. Thank you for the tips. I hope you can find a way to restore those old gems.
The very reason why I was glad when the compact disc appeared in the 80's. I'm not vinyl bashing and I love the records I bought back then, but the medium isn't suited to quiet passages of music. Seeing the effort involved here just to try and clean it up says all you need to know.
What i do is..i don't buy music that has really long really quiet passages on vinyl, i buy the CD instead. I can handle the odd pop n click on a rock, punk, album etc Nothing more annoying than listening to some nice soft chill ambient music then the surface noise "takes you out of the experience" because its so distracting.
Very pragmatic and sensible. I keep a cd copy filed with some of my "problematic" vinyl favourites so I always have the choice depending on my mood. These days I think there's an argument for HiRes files as the best of both worlds and in some respects my second-hand laptop with Foobar and a £60.00 DAC presents music in a way that my Linn analogue front-end can't and never will. Plus I can play the cd in the car!
Interesting... most of my records don't have any significant popping or clicking, and are very quiet even in the quiet parts. So it's not exactly a problem....
One of the LPs in my collection was plagued with clicks and pops that were rendering the record unlistenable. It is one with music I enjoyed (Andre Gagnon - Projection) that I could not find anywhere to search for a better copy. I tried all sorts of treatment, including wood glue restoration, U/S, cleaning with a DIY version of the Loricraft vacuum cleaner and a Project VC-E that was one of my latest purchases. It was becoming a bit better after (almost) every cleaning session with U/S being the most effective. My U/S cleaner is one of the industrial baths with temperature control coupled with a spindle stand, and I could experiment with temperature settings. And found that the persistent clicks were almost completely removed when the temperature was raised to the point that the LP started warping while rotating in the bath. That was a nerve wrecking experience, watching the LP wobble like that, but thankfully my idea of ending the U/S session with 10 minutes of cooling down while rotating without heating and U/S on, returned the LP surface to a normal flat one. My theory is that some LPs might have been played repeatedly while dirty and that might have caused the dust to firmly "emboss" in the groove sides. A normal session with U/S will get rid of all loose particles and most of the lodged ones. But for some of the worst cases, a higher temperature session is required. And my go-to method, after a few years of experimenting, is to U/S clean the LP and then, straight take it to the VC-E vacuum cleaner to further clean and dry each side. After that, it can sit on the drying rack for a few minutes to allow it to fully dry.
Avoiding the label i put the record under the water crane with some drops of alcohol and somethimes a drop of soap and clean it with my bare fingers. Water, water, water and take it away agitating the record for 20 seconds as if I was giving air to some king. Then I put the half dry half wet dry put in on a little towel and dry it with a piece of microfiber cloth. It takes me like two minutes per record. It works perfect for me. I have around 1300 records that have been clean in this almost free way during the last 35 years sound very clean. Greetings from Sweden!!
I use a Kirmuss. The Upscale edition. Love it. I basically just run it as an ultrasonic on newer records and go full-tilt 'restoration' mode when picking up a used. Use a Nagaoka MP-500 most of the time. If you're a vinyl enthusiast, you definitely need to pick up some kind of cleaner.
The Rubinstein record should come from the 50s or 60s, at that days the most popular way to listen records were furniture systems with not super precise turntables, heavy arms and most important, conical and not super fine needles, last but not last, most of the people weren't aware to how to setup the turntable. So, in these cases, even if the pre owner didn't scratch the record but it played it a lot, the record were damaged in dept, despite his perfect surface look could let think about.
I had a record (A bootleg ) that looked in mint condition but sounded like yours .l tried many ways to clean it and it did not improve one bit .After much head scratching I realised my pressing had not been taken from an original tape but had been copied from a scratched vinyl copy ,so it was a waste time of time trying to remove the clicks and pops that had just been transferred from the scratched copy !!!
I have been playing around with a copy of Gerry Rafferty's " Night Owl" which a friend of mine bought me on a record stall in Nantes & this has all of the same problems ??? after trying many ways to clean it I have now come to the stage where I will buy another copy because for such a great album I would like to have this in my vinyl collection & just use the one I have for playing around with my different cleaning ideas until it wears out ??😉what an I losing ??? nothing ... but trying to get the best results out of a vinyl record which may not be possible is going to save my very expensive Styli for the future.
@paulaj2829 l knew at the time buying bootleg records was not going to ensure great quality but it took me quite a while to realise what the bootleggers had done ,not only copying it from a scratched copy but not even taking the time to find one in mint condition .Again buying records from market stalls is also a gamble ,l have done so myself because they were very cheap and brand new ,but they did not come from the company on the label and were low quality ,so not really any type of bargain..
It also depends on the quality of the vinyl pellets when the record was pressed, some vinyl is terrible and they press records with it. I just bought a streamer and I'm enjoying the clean sound of music with it. Vinyl records requires a lot of work. After years of playing records I have found one label that actually presses good sounding records, its called VINYL PASSION the thing with them is that they press a lot of old music.
@@LetsCleanaRecordOn the use of an antistatic device, I found that using the rocket air blower (BTW thanks for the tip) makes much more sense AFTER using my Milty Zerostat 3 or preferably my Furutech DeStat III. Otherwise the dust particles will stick to the record like glued on.
Have you tried the Hart Audio Vinyl SuperCleaner? It can be used wet to clean heavily soiled records and also dry to clean a mildly soiled record. Also, it keeps a clean record clean. It will remove dirt and debris the more times it is used before and after play cleaning as you go with 3000 superfine stiff densely packed synthetic antistatic fibers. When using dry before and after play repeatedly, the SuperCleaner gets the groove clean and silences dirt-related noise. We have found it a quick, easy, and very effective solution. A secret to clear vinyl transcription. We've been handcrafting them for 4 years and all our customers love them.
@@LetsCleanaRecord No problem, I can send a Dry only sample and a Wet & Dry sample to try if you want. It is better to use a Dry only unit after a Wet unit clean and after the first play once wet cleaned. It is very surprising how much debris collects in the groove but I suppose the groove on a vinyl record is about 1,500 feet (500 meters) long. If you were to unravel all the groove on a record, it would stretch to this length which is a third of a mile so a tough thing to get scrupulously clean.
I think its the vinyl itself . Not all vinyl is the same and different plants and companies use/used different mixes of what the deemed ok. And therefore there is louder vinyl and more quiet one. Add to this factors like the oil crisis in the 70s which messed with vinyl and the invention of recycled vinyl around the same time and the problems become bigger . And then of course there is the sheer corporate greed of the corporations that own the record companies and you will never be able to clean that away.
It's interesting how you can buy an original 50's pressing that looks beat to hell and it will astound you when you play it but an absolutely mint late 70's record will invariably sound like an explosion in a Rice Krispies factory. Interesting, too, how vintage records are always thick and heavy (as "standard" mass pressings) but these days "pressed on 180 gram vinyl" is seen as a bonus. It's only because records became tissue thin so the manufacturers could save a few cents on every one produced (and blame it on the "oil crisis", of course!)
You wouldn't have that problem with the CDs or SACD. It sounds like you are making a little static. You may need a nitrogen blower to clean your records.
Have you ever used a Degritter machine? I'm currently debating on whether to get one of those, or to get a VPI Cyclone and then a Humminguru as a "rinse/US" final step. Right now I use a Record Doctor V.
The nice thing about the Degritter is that the solution the record is immersed in is continuously being circulated through a filter element, and I can assure you that it is taking out debris removed from the ultrasonic cleaning and not redepositing it on the vinyl. After 50 cleanings you will see noticeable darkening of the otherwise white filter element. And you'll likely see some crap on there too.
@@thecarman3693 I also own the Degritter Mk2 but I am pretty sure the filtering is only done when the bath is filled and also when pumped back into its „reservoir container“. I do not believe there is constant filtering. This would be probably the ultrasonic Knosti Antistat.
@@LetsCleanaRecord I own the Degritter Mk2, in addition one of the cheap ultrasonic solutions and also a Loricraft „cousin“ the Keith Monk prodigy. The Degritter Mk2 does a fabulous job. Highly recommended.
@@Vinyl-Go-Pilates_Reiner If that's true then there should be a greater amount of redeposited material on only half the record, as the rotation of the record stops as the reservoir gets refilled. For dirtier records this should be rather apparent after removing the album. I have never noticed such. Have you seen this occur?
I believe that it is down to the quality of the vinyl! In the past, I had purchased some Japanese pressed albums, and talking to my friend at the time who was a keen audiophile, he said that Japanese pressed recordings were made from virgin vinyl, unlike the majority of what was sold, using recycled vinyl. One album that I still have in a Japanese pressing is Phil Collins "Face Value", and I remember borrowing a normal copy from a friend, the difference was night and day. The Japanese pressed album was completely silent, had more detail, and dynamic range, it was a whole different experience, the English pressed recording in comparison was crap! You can have all the high tech cleaning devices in the world, but if the problem is already in the medium you are playing, you've just wasted a whole lots of hours you could have spent doing something worthwhile!
I watched a video of a guy from England who used Groom Upholstery Cleaner by Ambersil to first use on a very dirty record. It worked very well. But I can't seem to find the same cleaner anywhere in the States.
Ivor Tiefenbrun (who was the founder of Linn and developed your LP12) was notoriously careless about record care and handling. He (and Roy Gandy of Rega) always said that your stylus was the perfect, and only necessary, record cleaner and playing, combined with a clean stylus (he gave away strips of green abrasive paper for this purpose; sounds scary and counter-intuitive but it certainly worked!) was the only maintenance needed. Having said that sometimes it's more gracious to accept defeat with some very quiet music (for instance no amount of clearing will ever remove that all-too-obvious pressing rumble) and trade off the analogue experience against a master-tape quiet digital one. What's worse; digititis or sitting on the edge of your seat, unable to relax, waiting for the next pressing noise to distract you? Fortunately, in this day and age, we have the best of both worlds to choose from and even Linn, one of the most vocal critics of early digital. now happily embrace Hi-Res files and, at one time, made some of the worlds finest CD players. And, coup de grace, as you say some badly damaged records just won't ever respond to cleaning
Just now I put a Visions/Phurpa LP on my record player, cleaned it with velvet brush and played it - man, the first run is soooo noisy - full of defects AND cleaning the vinyl after 1st playback I saw dirty brush when before it was clean - stylus just dug out a lot of grime from the grooves and sounds way better the next time around. Same goes for Portishead - Dummy. So yes - this holds and I thought exactly this: man, do I need a "cleaning" stylus and go full 78RPM and no amp before listening to my LPs? :)
@@diapozitīvs Thanks for your interest and comment. I would always say use the very best quality stylus you can all the time as that's least likely to damage the groove and certainly don't try to rush things by playing at too fast a speed; we need to maintain accurate stylus to groove contact at all time so we don't want your cartridge bouncing around a Le mans racetrack and cutting the corners! Unfortunately it looks like patience and perseverance again..... I would certainly recommend a carbon fiber brush - they're under a tenner online for a good quality one - rather than a velvet pad, though. May be worth a try? Have a groovy (pardon the pun!) evening my friend
@ it was more of a tongue-in-cheek humor. Velvet works fine, but what I did actually was - literally give it a shower and that improved things very dramatically
@ my procedure was: 1) shower head on most powerful setting where only 4 streams of warm water come out - to dislodge any grime with mechanical water energy alone before I touch the surface and grooves, then 2) velvet cloth and scentless soap with no oils - gave a few good strokes and felt dug into the grooves really nice, then 3) shower on the same setting to remove soap, then 4) have another soapy velvet cloth go, then 5) rinse with the same shower setting, then 6) poured energetically a distilled water over my LP, then 7) unscented, clean paper towel to soak up the large drops and hung my record to dry. It might sound barbaric to some, but the result speaks for itself - night and day! No surface noise and no crackle and clicks, no pops - just perfect! Took about 5 minutes of elbow grease and the label didn't show any damage. I'm happy.
It is hard to pin down exactly what causes persistent pops and clicks if record has been cleaned well or cleaned to within an inch of it's life or "fully restored". The best we can do is assume through logical deduction since the causes are as varied as records themselves. It could be stubborn contaminants, but with correct methods those can eventually be removed 98% of the time at least. That said what can't be fixed as we know, is damage. If a record has been fully restored and pops and clicks persist, we must assume damage which could be a factor of time, pressing such as if the record was the last or past the expiration of the stamper being used or the wrong ultrasonic machine or faulty method of ultrasonic cleaning was used. Incorrect use of ultrasonic cleaning and/or an incorrect machine can turn a record more brittle and therefore cause microfractures or similar. For example, an ultrasonic machine at the wrong resonant kilohertz such as say 120kHz can leech plasticizer from the record over time thus making it more brittle. This is due to the fact that in such a machine the record has to have a longer time in the bath. If you add heat over the natural heat that builds up in cavitation, you increase such risk exponentially. I have seen black bits at the bottom of cavitation tanks on those medical grade jobs after records have been put through them. Those black bits are indeed pieces of record! The KLAudio machine has potential to damage records, not so much from the resonant frequency as much as from temperature and the transport it uses. The KLAudio uses a brass gear basically to turn the record. It chews on the edges of records. It also uses brushes, which while not necessarily harmful, they are also not needed in cavitation just as a side note. That said, the KLAudio can heat the record beyond the safe range making it softer thus potentially causing damage such as leeching plasticizer or opening up microfractures, etc. Yes, one can do the same heating and leeching damage in the Kirmuss machine (any ultrasonic machine). If you leave the record in long enough you can get the same damage and will also burn out the transducers in the process eventually. If one is handling records properly, then the most likely suspect for persistent pops and clicks is the stamper or in the case of used records, the previous owner mishandling it.
Thank you for your comment. I agree with you in general but have to say that I disagree with your notion that 120 kHz is a „wrong resonant kilohertz“. From my understanding the lower the frequency the higher the intensity, the higher the frequency the more it becomes not a cleaning but a rinse of the vinyl. As „Perfect Vinyl Forever“ state on their website: „There is no single ultrasonic frequency that is ideal for cleaning and optimizing vinyl records with cavitation. Low ultrasonic frequency cavitation (40 kHz - 80 kHz) is suitable for removing surface contaminants from the record, however, can not penetrate deep into the groove. Medium ultrasonic frequency cavitation (120 kHz - 135 kHz) penetrate into the groove of the record but lack the cavitation implosion power for contaminant removal. High ultrasonic frequency cavitation (200 kHz and above) get deep in the groove but are only polish and reveal the finest details of the music.“ Also you state that the KLAudio „uses brushes“, which I am sure they do not, as I have seen many product demonstration videos of the KLAudio and they also say on their own website: „No scrubbing or drying rollers to replace“
@@Vinyl-Go-Pilates_Reiner The frequencies in cavitation are counter intuitive. The higher the resonant frequency, the smaller the bubbles and the lower the power of the "explosions" of the bubbles. Perfect Vinyl Forever" has essentially the correct idea fundamentally, but doesn't fully know what they are talking about. I studied this academically for two years and also did my own lab work as far as I could go. The lower the resonant frequency, the larger the bubbles, but the more powerful the "explosions" (actually, "implosions"). That is why in cavitation baths with say 100 to 120 Khz transducers, the longer the record needs to stay in the bath. For example: Depending on array 100 kHz transducers will create about a 200 kHz resonant frequency. Sure, the bubbles are smaller and can be as low as about 5 microns (A standard record groove is about 34 microns at top and 6 microns at bottom), but the point of cavitation is, let's call it vacuuming. The implosion of the bubbles essentially create plasma waves. It is these implosions that do the work. They break up and suck out the contaminants. The bigger the implosion, the more powerful the vacuum effect. 70 kHz to 78 kHz resonant frequency is about the sweet spot. The bubbles are small enough (about 9 to 10 microns), yet powerful enough that they need not reach all the way to bottom because of the power of the vacuum created by the implosion of said bubbles. Where "Perfect Vinyl Forever" and many folks go off the tracks is understanding that an ionizing agent is essential because the item being cavitated needs to be the opposite atomic charge of the water. In this way, the water reaches all the way into the grooves. If you were to put a record in a cavitation bath without changing it's charge to be opposite of the water then no matter the frequency you would essentially just be rinsing the record at best and not removing much except dust because the bubbles would be repelled rather than attracted to the record. Higher frequencies are not needed and can actually do damage! Cavitation creates heat. For example: At 70 kHz if the heat created under the surface of the water is 94 degrees, the heat coming off the surface of the water is around 102 to 103 degrees. This is enough to soften the groove walls and even warp them, not what you want. The higher the frequency, the more heat created! 120 kHz to 200 kHz is NOT needed to "polish" a record. It can also leech out the plasticizers and warp the groove walls. We do NOT want to leech out the plasticizers! We only want to remove the plasticizers (and release agent) that are sitting on the surface from the stamping process. What happens with these higher frequency machines is at first you think "wow. this record sounds great, the noise floor is super low". Over time though (about a year or so) when you go to play it again, the noise is back with a vengeance because the record is now essentially a piece of plumbing because to much plasticizer has been removed. When we clean records (or "restore" as I do, restoration is done through cleaning, similar to how they restore paintings), we are not trying to polish. The one spot I disagree with Kirmuss Audio on is "polishing", we do not need to polish. Records with lighter fluid or LAST applied look polished, but details are covered. What we need to reveal all the details is for the record to have all contaminants removed, that's it. By the way, with all the contaminants removed a record will look "polished" anyway and yes, this can be accomplished with 70 kHz. How do I know this? Because I have been doing it for about 5 years! I'm not advertising or whatever for Kirmuss Audio or anyone else. I'm just stating science and the Kirmuss machine just happens to check all the boxes in its design. If some other machine did that, I'd have it. I go purely by science and design. Also, "Perfect Vinyl Forever" does an hours long bath in Tergitol or some other industrial detergent. Look at the PVC compatibility chart and you will see that is the wrong thing to use. I don't care of the bath is a recirculating one or not, that doesn't change anything of the properties. That should give pause right there. That said, I do stand corrected on the KLAudio machine. It doesn't use brushes, I got it confused with the Audiodesk machine, my bad.
I've recently undertaken going through my collection, keeping the best as long as I will listen to it and has to be in good condition. After a thorough cleaning using ultrasonic and vacuum if an lp still sounds crunchy I get rid of it. Bad cover, it's gone. Scratched surface, gone. I'll keep some rare lps with light surface noise. So far I've been through 1,500 lps and I enjoy listening to lps more.
this was very interesting when you first played record and last played it after cleaning I still heard the pops all that equipment to clean and procedures to get record clean seemed like a lot I have played records since the mid 70's the records I got in the 70's I always used the disc washer protective sleeve they were my favorite ,now every time I take out my record in that sleeve I have never seen any dust and record sounded very quiet totally the only thing I noticed is that during the winter time there is a lot of static and I have seen lint and some dust stick onto my record itys something that you can't avoid but I will take a very soft cloth that I use only for my records and clean it several times on each side I'll maybe find 1 small lint piece on record ,I have bought newer albums that are supposed to be audiophile grade 180 gram and take it out I do not see and lint and i will hear more pops than in my old records ,that was a lot of effort to clean a record just to hear the same noise also it looked like to me that when you played album after cleaning record the volume seemed lower but maybe it was me but all that equipment I know its not cheap ,I do not have the funds to invest in such equipment I do use the record disc cleaner ,I still have my disc washer brush I go out of the way to buy very soft cloth to clean record ,I found that there is a auto cleaning cloth that is used to dry and polish car they are very soft and I find that this works great ,this not a critique on your equipment I would of like to have tried a ultrasonic cleaner on this record I bought used it was very scratchy I got my money back but I still had album after cleaning it it was still scratchy and kept finding dirt on stylus when I played it so I tried a old stylus that i had that was an eliptical stylus increased the tracking force from 1.70 to 2.80 grams as I played record I sprayed record while stylus was on record of course record being wet it was not scratchy and played well but as it played I got even more dirt out of groove and sticking to stylus I did both sides about 3 times the last time stylus was not dirty any more so I dried up the record till it was dry placed on my other favorite TT and it was very ,very quiet the scratchy and popping noise was very few and quiet I was shocked this album being from the early 60's I did not expect it to be perfect but it sounds better now I do not recommend this I just happened to have 13 turntables and one stylus which was still good but needed to replace anyway the eliptical stylus it being more precise and chiseled really got to the bottom of groove and got all that gunk mostlikely the person who had this album used a conical shaped stylus most of the record players from the 60's had them JRo
I’ve read that even the repeated playback of dirty records causes damage to the groove (uneven wear) leading to permanent ticks and pops. Cleaning such a record improves the playback but some damage has already been done. You never know how their previous owners handled and stored them.
I also have come across some records that have clicks&pops. I use a two step cleaning process using a Spin clean as a prewash & then a vacuum cleaning machine. On very dirty records I use the spin clean w/ hot water & dawn liquid soap. I spend around 10 minutes soaking & scrubbing repeatedly in the spin clean ,then I use the vacuum machine w/ the three step cleaning process using Audio Intelligent Enzymatic cleaners.Makes a noticeable improvement but, not perfect. I believe that some clicks & pops can never be removed because there was some dust in the Record pressing plant that was pressed into the record. Poor quality control at the record plants!
Here's what I do and it works! I have over 1,000 vinyl records dating back to the late 60's, but mainly from the 70's. I have owned some for 50 years and the following works for all of them and the new/old records I have collected since, some of which have turned up in filthy condition. I wash them like dishes in the kitchen sink in warm water and Fairy Liquid soap with a paper towel following the grooves and an not scared about the pressure I use! Then I drop them on a soft hand towel, wring out the wet paper towel and dry them off. Next is the controversial bit, I wring out the paper towel again and add a slight amount of WD-40 and that not only purges the grooves of any remaining water, it eliminates all static and even helps with small scratches and scuffs. When the record is coated with the oil I polish it with the wife's cleaning cloth out of her eye glasses case, but don't tell her and they shine up like new. Believe me I have the cleanest most static free record collection anywhere and I have seen no adverse reactions to the vinyl or my stylus over the last 5 years I have been doing this. I prep every record I have collected in this period like this and gone back over my collection cleaning them all! It has worked on all of them, even the ones I have owned for years that I abused as a teenager that have languished dirty and un played for years! Please use this system on your worst record and tell me it does not work!!!
As a rule of thumb I find it most effective not to tell my wife anything at all. Ever. Have you tried borrowing her Ladyshave to see if you can peel potatoes with it? From experience I suggest you don't...... ;0)
I completely agree that this soap and water method works - but I go about it a different way. I lay a towel down on the bathroom counter, then fill a small bowl with a touch of Dawn dishwashing liquid, add hot water to that, let it mix a bit, then get the sink water to lukewarm temp before running side one of the album or single under the faucet, getting off all surface dust/dirt. Once pre-rinsed enough, I place the record on the towel and start really getting into the grooves with the softer part of a clean sponge, first dipping the sponge in the Dawn water mix and then proceeding to go back and forth over the vinyl in the direction of the grooves. After some time, I rinse the Dawn off and then do the same for the flip side of the record. Once both sides have been washed, I lay side one on the towel and begin the drying process, first blowing off excess surface water with a quick blast of the hair dryer and then taking a clean, dry cloth to go around the record in one direction, in the direction of the grooves. I do the same for the second side, minus the hair dryer (because at that point, most of the water on side two has been sucked up by being against the towel while side one was being dried). I put the album or single on the turntable platter, turn the speed to 78 and give it a final drying by running my velvet dusting brush over each side for a few moments. This routine, while not being able to save every single record (some are just so bad they need to be replaced), has been absolutely successful for me - I even saved some 12 inch singles from my DJ days that were caked over with canine urine (don't ask; it happened when I was storing my records at my parents house during a relocation) with this Dawn method. EVERY ONE of these records play like they're new now. When it comes to the labels, I don't put a special cover on them to protect them; I have found that they won't rip or tear even when getting wet, so long as you immediately dab gently at them with the drying cloth before starting the main drying process. I've yet to lose ONE label doing it like this, save for a 45RPM single or two which had really old, brittle labels. And even in these cases, the whole label wasn't destroyed - just some minor ripping. I wouldn't go as far as what's being shown in this video for EVERY record I need to be cleaned; that's just insanity to me.
I find the vinyl vac works wonders for a fraction of the price and time. However, it's possible that the record itself is at fault like you said. Nice video. 😊
Just curious why you keep the brush applied after starting the vacuum? Does this serve some purpose or is it just part of the ritual? Love your videos...
Probably ritual more than anything, but I do try to ensure the liquid is spread fully across the vinyl surface as it enters the wand. No idea if that really makes a difference, so really just habit. Thanks for watching!
Good (and no doubt time consuming/expensive) effort! In addition to what @electrajojo said about stamper life, I believe a lot of this comes down to the purity of the vinyl that was used to make the pressing - there is simply no way to remove imperfections contained within in the material itself which were there to begin with. Theory crafting: perhaps this could be done as a sort of "linear cut and buff" at a microscopic level within the groove, but even if this were possible, chances are those contaminants are physically harder than the vinyl they are embedded into. I can only imagine this _theoretical_ approach would work on a spot-by-spot correction basis, and I doubt even the most dedicated and insane would have the patience for such a thing. Unless it's a one-off lathe cut or something, the time and money would probably be better spent finding another copy. But of course, that's not the point of the channel! 😏
I have lots of questions but I'll keep it to a couple; I never heard of the stamper number affect the physical quality of the record. You don't find it redundant to clean with the VPI and then a Loricraft/Keith Monks machines? I don't see how any cleaning process can repair a damaged groove. You would really need to have purchased the Lp's new, and have had anal retentive(kind of) tendencies, keeping the record pristine or as pristine as possible; not touch the surfaces with your fingers, splay the inner sleeve out to minimize scratching, clean dust off. My record collection has stayed remarkably healthy. During the seventies in high school I wandered into Victor's Stereo in Chicago, one of the first things I noticed was this turntable looking device just inside the door that turned out to be a Keith Monks record cleaner free to use for customers. After learning how to use it I started bringing in LPs to clean then put them in quality sleeves purchased their. I went through all or most of my collection and have since been careful handling every record I brought home.
@@LetsCleanaRecord Okay, but I guess my main question is; do you think its possible to wash away damage on a record? Also is there much diff between the Loricraft and a 16.5, and a Keith Monks for that matter? Personally I've never notice much difference between one vacuum machine and another, just ease of use. I owned an original 16.5, got rid of it, too noisy. Victor's take on cleaning was that the VPI was good for routine maintenance, but not as good as the KM. They(Victor's) also thought that really dirty records required several cleanings, the idea being that cleaning once sometimes was not enough but it loosened/ dried up dirt and grime and that playing the Lp broke up this dirt, then clean again on the KM, and again if necessary. But I'm definitely sold on cavitation machines and I like the Sin Clean with bristle brushes rather than pads.
@@watdanuqta-mf5ms Absolutely not possible. Regarding different types of suction machines, I do appreciate a bi-directional platter and stiff wands, but most produce a similar result. String machines I think are better, but more finicky and an ultrasonic, a must have.
What works realy well, is spreading distilled (!) water on the record evenly and then just play it wet. No problem for the stylus, and almost all pops and clicks are gone.
Very interesting. Disappointing that such effort wasn't rewarded. I have an original 1970s copy of Rubicon by Tangerine Dream that's been through the Disco Antistat (like a Spinclean) three times and had four cleans on my Project vacuum machine. Still loads of surface noise so I've concluded it must be damaged.
Wow!! I thought using my Ultrasonic / VPI machine was enough you went all out!!! Is that a Loricraft record cleaning machine I see What do you think of it? Nice video
One trick is to spray the lp with 50% alcohol 50% distilled water solution, and play it wet. The pops and clicks are supposedly static, and the solution removes that...
I've had a couple of those US EG records over the years, I think they were made of old tires. Same goes for a lot of the US ECMs from that era. I had UKs of the same Eno LPs (including Apollo) that were super quiet. I would still take the vinyl over the digital tho, that album has some really rich guitar tone, perfect vinyl and valve stuff.
If you want a dead quiet medium, buy Cd's or SACD or stream. These little pops and noises are a part of the vinyl experience.I like it but some hate it. I do a 3 step cleaning proces and if there are some ticks and pops left.... Fine. Sometimes when the noise is too present and disturbing I'll end up buying another copy.
I noticed that the cleaning machines used did not protect the labels from getting wet. This could be a problem. My iSonic ultrasonic machine has silicone discs to protect the labels.
You're not the first to mention this. However, I've never had an issue with wet labels. If they do get a little water on them, they dry with no sign of damage. At least that's been my experience. Have you ever seen TergiKleen's recommended cleaning process? Oh my goodness, they SOAK the labels and claim no damage will happen. I'm not ready to go that far! Thanks for watching.
@@LetsCleanaRecord Regarding the Tergikleen step in your video. The guys from „Perfect Vinyl Forever“ use in their restoration process bath where they soak (with a label protector) the vinyl for a full night. I do not believe that this will restore your beloved LP but you might give it a try. Or send it over to the „Perfect Vinyl Forever“ guys and have them a last go?
From what I can see, you used the same brush to spread the liquids. That brush may be dirty and you may be contaminating the disc with dirt. After the ultrasonic bath let it dry or play it wet and see the difference. The ultrasonic cleaning should remove all the dirt.
We should have made that more clear, but we do use different brushes for each application of liquid, cleaned beforehand of course! I think we got that record (and the Beethoven) as clean as can be. I think it's micro-fracturing or some other form of damage.
I disagree about using the Studebaker. I know someone who got one because it was cheaper than the Spin Clean. It was more cheaply made than the SC, and they ended up getting the SC anyway because it was better quality. So the SC may cost more, but it’s worth it.
Clicks and pops are caused by the hard stylus generating minute shock waves through the soft groove wall, punching out tiny holes . In other words, on a new record that has never been played, there were never any clicks or pops to start with, only surface noise. I found out about this 30 years ago. and how to thoroughly clean records. After thoroughly cleaning and vacuuming records, i use a special record preservative which prevents record ware for 200 plays. This stops the shock waves from generating through the vinyl, causing those annoying sounds. Records i purchased in the 60's and 70's have already been damaged with clicks and pops but at least i could thoroughly clean them and protect them from future damage. To thoroughly clean and preserve my records i use.... A record cleaning machine.(Nitty Gritty 1. vacuum) A work turntable.(Direct drive) A mold release agent.(Last Power cleaner) Record cleaning fluid. ( L'Art du Son ) Last Record preservative.
Interesting. I always thought that the „Last Record“ preservative should only be applied on a never played record. Was not aware of the shock wave „theory“. Could the hard stylus not by itself punch out the tiny holes?
Plus he looks like quite a professional chap. I imagine his day job hourly pay rate might have turned that record into a several hundred dollar investment 🤣
I seriously doubt it is because you don't know what you're doing 😊 I have a question for you. I'm wondering about the Giotto blaster that you are using and I am curious if there is anything special a person needs to look for when getting one? I'm legally blind and I really can't see the detail in the one you're using. Do you have a recommendation for one you think would be a good one or does the $6 one on Amazon work as good as the $17 one? I remember when growing up my dad had those bulbs for his cameras but I've never had one for anything I can remember. Thanks for any advice. And I really enjoy your videos so thank you! Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
I bet you wore a mask about 5 years ago (not a criticism) there would seem to be similarities in the quest to eliminate something so tiny and invisible ! Thanks for the video it was very imformative😊
I know I’ll get roasted for this but, Here’s an unpopular comment in the vinyl community. Elmers glue cleaning fixes a lot of issues with dirty records. Got a Beatles promo LP drying now. Side one improved 75%.
What a revelation that, no matter how intensive your cleaning process is, some records may always be noise free. I wonder what Charles Kirmuss would say about this. 😂 Seriously, though, I thought the Kirmuss system would be my end-game solution to clean, noise-free records. I guess not.
Very dirty records that do not need the Tergikleen. First AI number 15 two minutes, second AI Enzymatic two minutes, third AI Super Clean or Archivist two minutes, fourth pure water or distilled water two minutes. Then into the ultrasonic cleaner (either the KLAUDIO KD-CLN-LP200T or the Degritter Marl II) for 8 minutes. After the records are dry, an application of Last record preservative. Up to now excellent results. BTW, I now have two vacuum machines: the VPI Cyclone and the Pro-Ject VC-S3. I have beennusing the Pro-Ject for the dirty records with excellent results. The suction is stronger than the VPI and it rotates at higher speed. I acquired different suction tubes for each of the AI products and water. I use the VPI with records that are not too dirty and new records. These last with the L’art Du Son fluid.
If one dont like surface noice, dont buy records. I listen to CD Vinyl and cassette tape. Enjoy them all with what they each bring to the music experience. When I buy a vintage record, it allways get a wash. Just use neutral dishwasher soap, a microfiber cloth. Wash in soap water in the sink and rinse under the tap. Allways make the record sound better, and lower surface noise a bit. Done that for two decades.
Have you ever experimented with using heated water? I had some "uncleanable" records with constant surface noise, that became dramatically quieter after using hot distilled water in a Spin Clean. While the record is in the bath, it will start to look badly warped, but it returns to its prior flatness as soon as it cools down after you remove it. I found no loss of detail as some have said would happen. Maybe give it a try.
Helluva lot less bullshit to go through with crappy QC these days. I gave up with the f'n things 3 years ago... never looked back. Happy with my Yammy CD Player & amp. Records hardly get any use!
Well there is 21 minutes of my life I'll never get back, having learned literally *nothing* about "What To Do With Persistent Pops And Clicks On Your Vinyl Records". Hugh FAIL.
Sorry to have disappointed, but it really was about ticks and pops that persist even after extensive cleaning. At least that's what we're hearing. What's your take?
A possible solution for the brave Some PVC items tend to develop a sticky surface over the years. The reason for this is that plasticizers settle on the surface. When this happens with records, the dirt sticks to the sticky surface and cannot be removed with conventional cleaning products. The sticky surface can be removed with turpentine oil (poisonous, very aggressive, probably completely unsuitable for records) or orange oil cleaner. In my experience, orange oil cleaner - heavily diluted - is suitable for records. Danger! It must be a concentrated orange oil cleaner. Here in Germany there are also household cleaners that smell like oranges, but they are unsuitable. Danger! Orange oil cleaner is a very strong and aggressive cleaning agent. Use gloves, safety glasses, work in a well-ventilated room. I use Oranex® diluted with distilled water (1:50). Orange oil cleaner dissolves all sorts of adhesives. This means that the diluted orange oil cleaner cannot be used with a VPI because it detaches the velvet lips from the suction tube. But with a Loricraft it works very well. I apply the diluted orange oil cleaner to the record and spread it 1 minute forward and 1 minute backwards. Then I let the Loricraft suck out the liquid. I then clean the record like any other record. I have had very good success with orange oil cleaner, but if you use orange oil cleaner, you do so at your own risk. Don't blame me if something goes wrong!
Very interesting. A friend of mine who cleans as a hobby record collections on a constant inside fleemarket in Duesseldorf (yes, I am also from Germany) does also use diluted orange oil.
Since opening my record store in 2019, I’ve cleaned well over 20,000 LPs with my SpinCleans and have ruined zero record labels. Yes, sometimes they get a little wet. Wipe with the cloth, air dry, no damage.
You know what helps as well? An overpressured room and sterile clothing. Jesus man, you’re taking this cleaning way too serious. I just cleaned an original Nina Simone record, just a simple cleaning routine in the Knosti Disco Antistat with QS Audio Vinyl Cleaning fluid and it sounds as new.
It was a very worthwhile experiment. Noisewise, we knew from minute one that classical and the like "preferred" CD; pointless fighting it. Each of us has a tipping point at which vinyl become tolerable. Learn to nudge that point; get a kick out of reducing the noise, rather than bemoaning the remainder. I use a combination of cleaning as well as I can (surface then US), and relaxing over the remaining clicks and pops. Incidentally, I just changed my amp of 30 years to a more powerful one, and I straightaway felt that unwanted noise was less intrusive.
Your equipment is beautiful. But I have to break it to you. It's a hard fact to swallow. The best way to clean a record is with an infant's hair brush (any) and Dawn. It's just that simple. Any tap water is fine. Really. How? Wet the record. Rub the Dawn into the grooves with your fingers. Use the brush. Not lightly, but with vigor. Scrub in all directions. With the groove, across the grooves, this brush does not scratch. I tried to scratch a record with it, as a test. You can't. Scrub the record like an old frying pan. Then rinse the record and brush in warm running water. Keep using the brush, scrub all the soap away. And then, use a cotton dish towl to immediately dry the record. Don't let the water dry on the record. Use the towel to go around and around, until it is dry. Then the record is ready to play. The first thing you will notice is a quiet surface. The second thing you will notice is that absolutely no residue collects on the stylus, because the record is scrupulously clean. It only took me 50 years to learn this. I spent most of my life using special gentle brushes, fluids, a nice Vacuum cleaner. It was all in vain. A record needs to be washed until it is clean. Nothing else really works. An infant's hair brush? I bought mine at Walmart for $3. You have to look in the infant department. It's just a plastic brush with very soft nylon bristles. I was very skeptical about this, and tried it just to experiment. After the first record, I knew it was the answer.
Or stop obsessing over every small snap, crackle & pop. It's part of the medium. Do we clean our records to minimize them? Of course. But like it or not, surface noise WILL happen. Trying to eliminate it completely is a fool's errand.
Great video but being honest here... way to much money and effort for this guy. Would have to be a really hard to find LP for me to consider this much work.
Fair point. I chose the Eno because it was similar in pops and clicks to the Beethoven, yet both had been cleaned. But you're right, a ridiculous amount of cleaning for that album.
The amount of money wasted on useless cleaning machines sold by snake oil companies is absurd 😂. Just buy a CD player-better sound, no cleaning needed. CDs provide a higher dynamic range (up to 96 dB vs. vinyl’s ~70 dB), lower distortion, and no surface noise, pops, or crackles. They’re also immune to physical wear, unlike vinyl, which degrades with every play, no matter how careful you are. CDs also reproduce bass and treble more accurately because they don’t rely on the physical limitations of a stylus tracking a groove. And for those claiming vinyl sounds better (pro tip: it doesn’t), let’s not forget the countless flaws: wow and flutter (pitch instability), inner groove distortion (loss of quality as the stylus approaches the center), channel crosstalk (less stereo separation), and sensitivity to dust and scratches. Vinyl is also incapable of reproducing subsonic or ultrasonic frequencies accurately due to mechanical limitations, whereas CDs handle the full audible spectrum with precision. On top of that, vinyl lovers spend thousands on turntables, preamps, and needles to minimize these flaws, but they’ll never fully eliminate them. Meanwhile, a $50 CD player delivers perfectly consistent playback every time, no maintenance required. 😂
It might be that you are watching the wrong videos. Anyhow, all your arguments are correct. But still I lost all my joy for music first using CDs and then later HiRes streaming. I found the love for music again when I got back to vinyl. I urge you to read the article „God is in the nuances“ in Stereophile. It is freely on the web. Start with page 3. You will learn about a very interesting experiment of a German psychologist called Jürgen Ackermann.
@ Interesting read. I must say, I have nothing against people enjoying vinyl. In fact, I own a turntable and a collection of records myself. However, the obsession surrounding vinyl, with some spending enormous amounts of money and time on what is ultimately a flawed format, seems misplaced. Many of these individuals are chasing the idea of a perfect-sounding format, but they're looking in the wrong direction. Vinyl should be appreciated for what it is-with all its imperfections-because that’s precisely what gives this analog medium its charm. Those who pour money into this endless and unattainable quest are only fueling the profits of snake oil companies.
@ Thank you for taking the time and reading the experiment. I guess your statement summarizes it very well, but … everybody is entitled to what makes him joyful (as long as she or he is not harming anyone). I am extremely surprised how for example tempering vinyl changes the surface noise. So I temper/relax currently all my vinyl. I also enjoy clean vinyl so I use my Degritter MK2 for cleaning. Not harming anybody but giving me more enjoyment.
@@LetsCleanaRecordyou never heard of that?A lot of Dj's in the 70's took a mixture of isoprpanol and destilled water and make the record wet before playing. When you did that once you have to continue to play them wet or clean them afterwards. It wasn't the best for your stylus but at least it helped to keep the ticks and pops to a minimum. Some styluses back them could resist this kind of playing.
What you are not understanding is records that have been pressed toward the end of the stampers limit sounds exactly like what you are hearing and the far down the stampers get as they are being made of the mother the more they will sound just like your LP. The earlier the the stamper and the first pressings off it will always sound the best. Check the stamper that was used in the matrix #'s for example on the RCA record you have from 1963 the first pressings from the first stampers will have a "1S" in the matrix # in the trail off area. The higher this number gets the more the quality will degrade during pressings, example a "2S" is the second stamper as the "1S" has become worn and therefore the "2S' stamper will be now a generation down and will lose some sound quality. You may have a "8S, "9S" or higher stamper for your pressing and will sound degraded. This is why collectors will search for 1st pressings because the first stamper is a close you will get to the original analogue tape quality. The LP you were cleaning in the video most like was pressed with either a later stamper or or very a poor vinyl mixture as in the mid 70's some plants tooks their LPs that didn't sell well and crushed them up labels and all and recycled the vinyl during the oils shortage and this vinyl is very noise from the contaminants from the recycled vinyl.
Precisely why so many of us older HiFi enthusiasts became so jaded with the quality control of vinyl, and welcomed CD technology with open arms.
For the average record consumer, it wasn’t a big deal and hardly noticeable. For a true audiophile, almost nothing is good enough.
Exactly.
Theoretical toss-up; A thoroughly beat-up early press or a mint later one? Swings and roundabouts but neither is totally satisfying. Best of both worlds would be mint early but good luck with that one! And you're definitely on the button about poor vinyl compounds; it was the constant and unmanageable battle with the Rice Krispies that drove us, in the early eighties, to the silent backgrounds of CD. Shame we threw the baby away with the musical bathwater but that's another story......
@electrajojo Thank you for your comment. At the beginning of your comment you wrote „records that have been pressed toward the end of the stampers limit“ but later your say „the 2S‘ stampers will be now a generation down and will lose some sound quality“. So are there two effects working at the same time?
In my 60 years on this planet, I have never known records to not occasionally tick or pop, it goes with the medium. Embrace it.
Hard to argue!
I'm much calmer about it these days as I realise it's a choice I can make; if I want silent backgrounds I can go digital. Back in the day, though, record noise drove me up the wall as vinyl was the only quality medium we had access to and we were stuck with the Rice Krispies factory!
Nice try! It’s so frustrating when you invest the time and attention to detail to care for your vinyl but it doesn’t come out as you’d hoped. I’ve learned a lot from your channel. Keep up the great work.
I’m so relieved that all that hard work did not completely remove the pops and cracks. Otherwise, I would have to go through the same route which would take all my time and a lot of money. 😂 I’m now content with a single stage vacuum cleaning. 😁 Seriously, many thanks for the hard work you’ve put in to the video which was very informative. 👍
This video is a nice example of the Pareto 20/80 rule. 20% of that effort got 80% of the result. The other 80% of effort got 20% of the improvement. I'm a single stage vacuum cleaner as well. If second hand vinyl has visible grunge, it will get a Spin-clean prior.
This is when I digitize the record at 2496, and open it in Audition 3.01 on my Win 7 machine, and repair it. Never a problem, but I've been doing this for over 20 years. Carry on...
I go a step further with 24 Bit 192 kHz and use Audacity 7.0.1 to clean up artifacts and the files sound terrific. There is software out there called VinylStudio that does a great job as well.
Well done video, beautiful rig, I love the microphone art 🤓cheers .
The money you put in on your record cleaning process is commendable!! I have a similar process minus the Loricraft (can't afford that) I have Champagne ears on a beer budget. Vinyl Vac method pre clean, Vevor Ultrasonic, then vinyl vac rinse and vacuum. You certainly are not doing anything wrong. It's the pressing, I have run into a few that look absolutely perfect and sound terrible, I have other records that look like they should be thrown away but play perfectly (no snap crackle or pop) The Rabbit hole is deep my friend!
I have had records purchased new that had stubborn pops that I was unable to clean. So I would buy another new copy that sometimes is quieter, but other times has the same noise in exactly the same place. I suspect it is flaws in the plating process that become part of the stamper and therefore part of the signal on the record that can not ever be cleaned off.
I second this comment
Incredible video, thank you for your well thought out efforts. If this didn't get out the pops and clicks I think it is fair to say probably nothing will so you can sleep easy at night. I believe the defects might be dust and crud that found it's way onto the stampers or possibly a cheap vinyl formula. I have opened brand new records from the 70's that play noisy from the first needle drop with no amount of cleaning helping the situation. Thank you for your contribution to the hobby.
I love your cleaning methods. I only own 1 vinyl album so far, but I have bought the vpi, KLAudio and the Loricraft to make sure it stays brand new. My album is a 2023 Reissue of Kind Of Blue. I make sure that I run it through my cleaning regimen after every play. So far it still sounds amazing. Thank you for the tips. I hope you can find a way to restore those old gems.
The very reason why I was glad when the compact disc appeared in the 80's. I'm not vinyl bashing and I love the records I bought back then, but the medium isn't suited to quiet passages of music. Seeing the effort involved here just to try and clean it up says all you need to know.
If only there wasn't the dreaded loudness war/dynamics compression going on... I love vinyl for dynamics alone that are lost on CDs
What i do is..i don't buy music that has really long really quiet passages on vinyl, i buy the CD instead.
I can handle the odd pop n click on a rock, punk, album etc
Nothing more annoying than listening to some nice soft chill ambient music then the surface noise "takes you out of the experience" because its so distracting.
Yes I also very much agree. For classical music I personally think the best option is digital because of the quite passages
Very pragmatic and sensible. I keep a cd copy filed with some of my "problematic" vinyl favourites so I always have the choice depending on my mood. These days I think there's an argument for HiRes files as the best of both worlds and in some respects my second-hand laptop with Foobar and a £60.00 DAC presents music in a way that my Linn analogue front-end can't and never will. Plus I can play the cd in the car!
Interesting... most of my records don't have any significant popping or clicking, and are very quiet even in the quiet parts. So it's not exactly a problem....
One of the LPs in my collection was plagued with clicks and pops that were rendering the record unlistenable. It is one with music I enjoyed (Andre Gagnon - Projection) that I could not find anywhere to search for a better copy.
I tried all sorts of treatment, including wood glue restoration, U/S, cleaning with a DIY version of the Loricraft vacuum cleaner and a Project VC-E that was one of my latest purchases.
It was becoming a bit better after (almost) every cleaning session with U/S being the most effective.
My U/S cleaner is one of the industrial baths with temperature control coupled with a spindle stand, and I could experiment with temperature settings. And found that the persistent clicks were almost completely removed when the temperature was raised to the point that the LP started warping while rotating in the bath. That was a nerve wrecking experience, watching the LP wobble like that, but thankfully my idea of ending the U/S session with 10 minutes of cooling down while rotating without heating and U/S on, returned the LP surface to a normal flat one.
My theory is that some LPs might have been played repeatedly while dirty and that might have caused the dust to firmly "emboss" in the groove sides. A normal session with U/S will get rid of all loose particles and most of the lodged ones. But for some of the worst cases, a higher temperature session is required.
And my go-to method, after a few years of experimenting, is to U/S clean the LP and then, straight take it to the VC-E vacuum cleaner to further clean and dry each side. After that, it can sit on the drying rack for a few minutes to allow it to fully dry.
Avoiding the label i put the record under the water crane with some drops of alcohol and somethimes a drop of soap and clean it with my bare fingers. Water, water, water and take it away agitating the record for 20 seconds as if I was giving air to some king. Then I put the half dry half wet dry put in on a little towel and dry it with a piece of microfiber cloth. It takes me like two minutes per record. It works perfect for me. I have around 1300 records that have been clean in this almost free way during the last 35 years sound very clean. Greetings from Sweden!!
Tack!
I use a Kirmuss. The Upscale edition. Love it. I basically just run it as an ultrasonic on newer records and go full-tilt 'restoration' mode when picking up a used. Use a Nagaoka MP-500 most of the time. If you're a vinyl enthusiast, you definitely need to pick up some kind of cleaner.
The Rubinstein record should come from the 50s or 60s, at that days the most popular way to listen records were furniture systems with not super precise turntables, heavy arms and most important, conical and not super fine needles, last but not last, most of the people weren't aware to how to setup the turntable. So, in these cases, even if the pre owner didn't scratch the record but it played it a lot, the record were damaged in dept, despite his perfect surface look could let think about.
I had a record (A bootleg ) that looked in mint condition but sounded like yours .l tried many ways to clean it and it did not improve one bit .After much head scratching I realised my pressing had not been taken from an original tape but had been copied from a scratched vinyl copy ,so it was a waste time of time trying to remove the clicks and pops that had just been transferred from the scratched copy !!!
I have been playing around with a copy of Gerry Rafferty's " Night Owl" which a friend of mine bought me on a record stall in Nantes & this has all of the same problems ??? after trying many ways to clean it I have now come to the stage where I will buy another copy because for such a great album I would like to have this in my vinyl collection & just use the one I have for playing around with my different cleaning ideas until it wears out ??😉what an I losing ??? nothing ... but trying to get the best results out of a vinyl record which may not be possible is going to save my very expensive Styli for the future.
@paulaj2829 l knew at the time buying bootleg records was not going to ensure great quality but it took me quite a while to realise what the bootleggers had done ,not only copying it from a scratched copy but not even taking the time to find one in mint condition .Again buying records from market stalls is also a gamble ,l have done so myself because they were very cheap and brand new ,but they did not come from the company on the label and were low quality ,so not really any type of bargain..
That Apollo album is a real favourite. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Step into the eighties and use cd's.
No ticks, noice cleaning . So practical.
go out pls
Step into the 90s and use mp3 files...
and yet, here you are.
that said, I love my CDs too.
I'd love CD's, but they're essentially a compressed FLAC file with all the dynamics removed. God damn the loudness wars
It also depends on the quality of the vinyl pellets when the record was pressed, some vinyl is terrible and they press records with it. I just bought a streamer and I'm enjoying the clean sound of music with it. Vinyl records requires a lot of work. After years of playing records I have found one label that actually presses good sounding records, its called VINYL PASSION the thing with them is that they press a lot of old music.
this is love for vinyl 🫶
How about a Zero Stat anti-static pistol shot before playing the disc?
We'll do that in the future. We don't always use the ZeroStat, but whatever method used, I agree we should show it. Thanks for watching!
@@LetsCleanaRecordOn the use of an antistatic device, I found that using the rocket air blower (BTW thanks for the tip) makes much more sense AFTER using my Milty Zerostat 3 or preferably my Furutech DeStat III. Otherwise the dust particles will stick to the record like glued on.
They work really well...
This is why i love digital format
Have you tried the Hart Audio Vinyl SuperCleaner? It can be used wet to clean heavily soiled records and also dry to clean a mildly soiled record. Also, it keeps a clean record clean. It will remove dirt and debris the more times it is used before and after play cleaning as you go with 3000 superfine stiff densely packed synthetic antistatic fibers. When using dry before and after play repeatedly, the SuperCleaner gets the groove clean and silences dirt-related noise. We have found it a quick, easy, and very effective solution. A secret to clear vinyl transcription. We've been handcrafting them for 4 years and all our customers love them.
I have not tried Hart, but thanks for the recommendation.
@@LetsCleanaRecord No problem, I can send a Dry only sample and a Wet & Dry sample to try if you want. It is better to use a Dry only unit after a Wet unit clean and after the first play once wet cleaned. It is very surprising how much debris collects in the groove but I suppose the groove on a vinyl record is about 1,500 feet (500 meters) long. If you were to unravel all the groove on a record, it would stretch to this length which is a third of a mile so a tough thing to get scrupulously clean.
I think its the vinyl itself . Not all vinyl is the same and different plants and companies use/used different mixes of what the deemed ok. And therefore there is louder vinyl and more quiet one. Add to this factors like the oil crisis in the 70s which messed with vinyl and the invention of recycled vinyl around the same time and the problems become bigger . And then of course there is the sheer corporate greed of the corporations that own the record companies and you will never be able to clean that away.
It's interesting how you can buy an original 50's pressing that looks beat to hell and it will astound you when you play it but an absolutely mint late 70's record will invariably sound like an explosion in a Rice Krispies factory. Interesting, too, how vintage records are always thick and heavy (as "standard" mass pressings) but these days "pressed on 180 gram vinyl" is seen as a bonus. It's only because records became tissue thin so the manufacturers could save a few cents on every one produced (and blame it on the "oil crisis", of course!)
When I listen to some Glenn Miller and here a little crackle or pop it almost seems right. I don't mind!!
You wouldn't have that problem with the CDs or SACD. It sounds like you are making a little static. You may need a nitrogen blower to clean your records.
Have you ever used a Degritter machine? I'm currently debating on whether to get one of those, or to get a VPI Cyclone and then a Humminguru as a "rinse/US" final step. Right now I use a Record Doctor V.
No, but we just got word TODAY that we're getting a loaner for review! How cool is that?! Can't wait to try it out.
The nice thing about the Degritter is that the solution the record is immersed in is continuously being circulated through a filter element, and I can assure you that it is taking out debris removed from the ultrasonic cleaning and not redepositing it on the vinyl. After 50 cleanings you will see noticeable darkening of the otherwise white filter element. And you'll likely see some crap on there too.
@@thecarman3693 I also own the Degritter Mk2 but I am pretty sure the filtering is only done when the bath is filled and also when pumped back into its „reservoir container“. I do not believe there is constant filtering. This would be probably the ultrasonic Knosti Antistat.
@@LetsCleanaRecord I own the Degritter Mk2, in addition one of the cheap ultrasonic solutions and also a Loricraft „cousin“ the Keith Monk prodigy. The Degritter Mk2 does a fabulous job. Highly recommended.
@@Vinyl-Go-Pilates_Reiner If that's true then there should be a greater amount of redeposited material on only half the record, as the rotation of the record stops as the reservoir gets refilled. For dirtier records this should be rather apparent after removing the album. I have never noticed such. Have you seen this occur?
I believe that it is down to the quality of the vinyl! In the past, I had purchased some Japanese pressed albums, and talking to my friend at the time who was a keen audiophile, he said that Japanese pressed recordings were made from virgin vinyl, unlike the majority of what was sold, using recycled vinyl. One album that I still have in a Japanese pressing is Phil Collins "Face Value", and I remember borrowing a normal copy from a friend, the difference was night and day. The Japanese pressed album was completely silent, had more detail, and dynamic range, it was a whole different experience, the English pressed recording in comparison was crap! You can have all the high tech cleaning devices in the world, but if the problem is already in the medium you are playing, you've just wasted a whole lots of hours you could have spent doing something worthwhile!
I watched a video of a guy from England who used Groom Upholstery Cleaner by Ambersil to first use on a very dirty record. It worked very well. But I can't seem to find the same cleaner anywhere in the States.
Ivor Tiefenbrun (who was the founder of Linn and developed your LP12) was notoriously careless about record care and handling. He (and Roy Gandy of Rega) always said that your stylus was the perfect, and only necessary, record cleaner and playing, combined with a clean stylus (he gave away strips of green abrasive paper for this purpose; sounds scary and counter-intuitive but it certainly worked!) was the only maintenance needed. Having said that sometimes it's more gracious to accept defeat with some very quiet music (for instance no amount of clearing will ever remove that all-too-obvious pressing rumble) and trade off the analogue experience against a master-tape quiet digital one. What's worse; digititis or sitting on the edge of your seat, unable to relax, waiting for the next pressing noise to distract you? Fortunately, in this day and age, we have the best of both worlds to choose from and even Linn, one of the most vocal critics of early digital. now happily embrace Hi-Res files and, at one time, made some of the worlds finest CD players. And, coup de grace, as you say some badly damaged records just won't ever respond to cleaning
Just now I put a Visions/Phurpa LP on my record player, cleaned it with velvet brush and played it - man, the first run is soooo noisy - full of defects AND cleaning the vinyl after 1st playback I saw dirty brush when before it was clean - stylus just dug out a lot of grime from the grooves and sounds way better the next time around. Same goes for Portishead - Dummy. So yes - this holds and I thought exactly this: man, do I need a "cleaning" stylus and go full 78RPM and no amp before listening to my LPs? :)
@@diapozitīvs Thanks for your interest and comment. I would always say use the very best quality stylus you can all the time as that's least likely to damage the groove and certainly don't try to rush things by playing at too fast a speed; we need to maintain accurate stylus to groove contact at all time so we don't want your cartridge bouncing around a Le mans racetrack and cutting the corners! Unfortunately it looks like patience and perseverance again..... I would certainly recommend a carbon fiber brush - they're under a tenner online for a good quality one - rather than a velvet pad, though. May be worth a try? Have a groovy (pardon the pun!) evening my friend
@ it was more of a tongue-in-cheek humor. Velvet works fine, but what I did actually was - literally give it a shower and that improved things very dramatically
@ my procedure was:
1) shower head on most powerful setting where only 4 streams of warm water come out - to dislodge any grime with mechanical water energy alone before I touch the surface and grooves, then
2) velvet cloth and scentless soap with no oils - gave a few good strokes and felt dug into the grooves really nice, then
3) shower on the same setting to remove soap, then
4) have another soapy velvet cloth go, then
5) rinse with the same shower setting, then
6) poured energetically a distilled water over my LP, then
7) unscented, clean paper towel to soak up the large drops and hung my record to dry.
It might sound barbaric to some, but the result speaks for itself - night and day! No surface noise and no crackle and clicks, no pops - just perfect! Took about 5 minutes of elbow grease and the label didn't show any damage. I'm happy.
@@diapozitīvs Got me!! Have a great day my friend ;0)
Would a zero stat gun eliminate the static electricty?
Yes. We did eliminate static before listening. We'll show that next time.
It is hard to pin down exactly what causes persistent pops and clicks if record has been cleaned well or cleaned to within an inch of it's life or "fully restored". The best we can do is assume through logical deduction since the causes are as varied as records themselves.
It could be stubborn contaminants, but with correct methods those can eventually be removed 98% of the time at least.
That said what can't be fixed as we know, is damage.
If a record has been fully restored and pops and clicks persist, we must assume damage which could be a factor of time, pressing such as if the record was the last or past the expiration of the stamper being used or the wrong ultrasonic machine or faulty method of ultrasonic cleaning was used.
Incorrect use of ultrasonic cleaning and/or an incorrect machine can turn a record more brittle and therefore cause microfractures or similar. For example, an ultrasonic machine at the wrong resonant kilohertz such as say 120kHz can leech plasticizer from the record over time thus making it more brittle. This is due to the fact that in such a machine the record has to have a longer time in the bath. If you add heat over the natural heat that builds up in cavitation, you increase such risk exponentially. I have seen black bits at the bottom of cavitation tanks on those medical grade jobs after records have been put through them. Those black bits are indeed pieces of record!
The KLAudio machine has potential to damage records, not so much from the resonant frequency as much as from temperature and the transport it uses. The KLAudio uses a brass gear basically to turn the record. It chews on the edges of records. It also uses brushes, which while not necessarily harmful, they are also not needed in cavitation just as a side note. That said, the KLAudio can heat the record beyond the safe range making it softer thus potentially causing damage such as leeching plasticizer or opening up microfractures, etc.
Yes, one can do the same heating and leeching damage in the Kirmuss machine (any ultrasonic machine). If you leave the record in long enough you can get the same damage and will also burn out the transducers in the process eventually.
If one is handling records properly, then the most likely suspect for persistent pops and clicks is the stamper or in the case of used records, the previous owner mishandling it.
Thank you for your comment. I agree with you in general but have to say that I disagree with your notion that 120 kHz is a „wrong resonant kilohertz“. From my understanding the lower the frequency the higher the intensity, the higher the frequency the more it becomes not a cleaning but a rinse of the vinyl. As „Perfect Vinyl Forever“ state on their website: „There is no single ultrasonic frequency that is ideal for cleaning and optimizing vinyl records with cavitation. Low ultrasonic frequency cavitation (40 kHz - 80 kHz) is suitable for removing surface contaminants from the record, however, can not penetrate deep into the groove. Medium ultrasonic frequency cavitation (120 kHz - 135 kHz) penetrate into the groove of the record but lack the cavitation implosion power for contaminant removal. High ultrasonic frequency cavitation (200 kHz and above) get deep in the groove but are only polish and reveal the finest details of the music.“
Also you state that the KLAudio „uses brushes“, which I am sure they do not, as I have seen many product demonstration videos of the KLAudio and they also say on their own website: „No scrubbing or drying rollers to replace“
@@Vinyl-Go-Pilates_Reiner The frequencies in cavitation are counter intuitive. The higher the resonant frequency, the smaller the bubbles and the lower the power of the "explosions" of the bubbles. Perfect Vinyl Forever" has essentially the correct idea fundamentally, but doesn't fully know what they are talking about. I studied this academically for two years and also did my own lab work as far as I could go. The lower the resonant frequency, the larger the bubbles, but the more powerful the "explosions" (actually, "implosions"). That is why in cavitation baths with say 100 to 120 Khz transducers, the longer the record needs to stay in the bath. For example: Depending on array 100 kHz transducers will create about a 200 kHz resonant frequency.
Sure, the bubbles are smaller and can be as low as about 5 microns (A standard record groove is about 34 microns at top and 6 microns at bottom), but the point of cavitation is, let's call it vacuuming. The implosion of the bubbles essentially create plasma waves. It is these implosions that do the work. They break up and suck out the contaminants. The bigger the implosion, the more powerful the vacuum effect. 70 kHz to 78 kHz resonant frequency is about the sweet spot. The bubbles are small enough (about 9 to 10 microns), yet powerful enough that they need not reach all the way to bottom because of the power of the vacuum created by the implosion of said bubbles. Where "Perfect Vinyl Forever" and many folks go off the tracks is understanding that an ionizing agent is essential because the item being cavitated needs to be the opposite atomic charge of the water. In this way, the water reaches all the way into the grooves. If you were to put a record in a cavitation bath without changing it's charge to be opposite of the water then no matter the frequency you would essentially just be rinsing the record at best and not removing much except dust because the bubbles would be repelled rather than attracted to the record. Higher frequencies are not needed and can actually do damage! Cavitation creates heat. For example: At 70 kHz if the heat created under the surface of the water is 94 degrees, the heat coming off the surface of the water is around 102 to 103 degrees. This is enough to soften the groove walls and even warp them, not what you want. The higher the frequency, the more heat created! 120 kHz to 200 kHz is NOT needed to "polish" a record. It can also leech out the plasticizers and warp the groove walls. We do NOT want to leech out the plasticizers! We only want to remove the plasticizers (and release agent) that are sitting on the surface from the stamping process. What happens with these higher frequency machines is at first you think "wow. this record sounds great, the noise floor is super low". Over time though (about a year or so) when you go to play it again, the noise is back with a vengeance because the record is now essentially a piece of plumbing because to much plasticizer has been removed.
When we clean records (or "restore" as I do, restoration is done through cleaning, similar to how they restore paintings), we are not trying to polish. The one spot I disagree with Kirmuss Audio on is "polishing", we do not need to polish. Records with lighter fluid or LAST applied look polished, but details are covered. What we need to reveal all the details is for the record to have all contaminants removed, that's it. By the way, with all the contaminants removed a record will look "polished" anyway and yes, this can be accomplished with 70 kHz. How do I know this? Because I have been doing it for about 5 years! I'm not advertising or whatever for Kirmuss Audio or anyone else. I'm just stating science and the Kirmuss machine just happens to check all the boxes in its design. If some other machine did that, I'd have it. I go purely by science and design.
Also, "Perfect Vinyl Forever" does an hours long bath in Tergitol or some other industrial detergent. Look at the PVC compatibility chart and you will see that is the wrong thing to use. I don't care of the bath is a recirculating one or not, that doesn't change anything of the properties. That should give pause right there.
That said, I do stand corrected on the KLAudio machine. It doesn't use brushes, I got it confused with the Audiodesk machine, my bad.
Thats why I sold all my lps a couple years ago and replace with cds. Only a couple didn’t have pops since new.
I've recently undertaken going through my collection, keeping the best as long as I will listen to it and has to be in good condition. After a thorough cleaning using ultrasonic and vacuum if an lp still sounds crunchy I get rid of it. Bad cover, it's gone. Scratched surface, gone. I'll keep some rare lps with light surface noise. So far I've been through 1,500 lps and I enjoy listening to lps more.
this was very interesting when you first played record and last played it after cleaning I still heard the pops all that equipment to clean and procedures to get record clean seemed like a lot I have played records since the mid 70's the records I got in the 70's I always used the disc washer protective sleeve they were my favorite ,now every time I take out my record in that sleeve I have never seen any dust and record sounded very quiet totally the only thing I noticed is that during the winter time there is a lot of static and I have seen lint and some dust stick onto my record itys something that you can't avoid but I will take a very soft cloth that I use only for my records and clean it several times on each side I'll maybe find 1 small lint piece on record ,I have bought newer albums that are supposed to be audiophile grade 180 gram and take it out I do not see and lint and i will hear more pops than in my old records ,that was a lot of effort to clean a record just to hear the same noise also it looked like to me that when you played album after cleaning record the volume seemed lower but maybe it was me but all that equipment I know its not cheap ,I do not have the funds to invest in such equipment I do use the record disc cleaner ,I still have my disc washer brush I go out of the way to buy very soft cloth to clean record ,I found that there is a auto cleaning cloth that is used to dry and polish car they are very soft and I find that this works great ,this not a critique on your equipment I would of like to have tried a ultrasonic cleaner on this record I bought used it was very scratchy I got my money back but I still had album after cleaning it it was still scratchy and kept finding dirt on stylus when I played it so I tried a old stylus that i had that was an eliptical stylus increased the tracking force from 1.70 to 2.80 grams as I played record I sprayed record while stylus was on record of course record being wet it was not scratchy and played well but as it played I got even more dirt out of groove and sticking to stylus I did both sides about 3 times the last time stylus was not dirty any more so I dried up the record till it was dry placed on my other favorite TT and it was very ,very quiet the scratchy and popping noise was very few and quiet I was shocked this album being from the early 60's I did not expect it to be perfect but it sounds better now I do not recommend this I just happened to have 13 turntables and one stylus which was still good but needed to replace anyway the eliptical stylus it being more precise and chiseled really got to the bottom of groove and got all that gunk mostlikely the person who had this album used a conical shaped stylus most of the record players from the 60's had them JRo
I’ve read that even the repeated playback of dirty records causes damage to the groove (uneven wear) leading to permanent ticks and pops. Cleaning such a record improves the playback but some damage has already been done. You never know how their previous owners handled and stored them.
I also have come across some records that have clicks&pops. I use a two step cleaning process using a Spin clean as a prewash & then a vacuum cleaning machine. On very dirty records I use the spin clean w/ hot water & dawn liquid soap. I spend around 10 minutes soaking & scrubbing repeatedly in the spin clean ,then I use the vacuum machine w/ the three step cleaning process using Audio Intelligent Enzymatic cleaners.Makes a noticeable improvement but, not perfect. I believe that some clicks & pops can never be removed because there was some dust in the Record pressing plant that was pressed into the record. Poor quality control at the record plants!
Yeah….my lost 12 inch promotional single of Herb Alpert’s “8 Ball”, which was in a PVC sleeve.
Here's what I do and it works! I have over 1,000 vinyl records dating back to the late 60's, but mainly from the 70's. I have owned some for 50 years and the following works for all of them and the new/old records I have collected since, some of which have turned up in filthy condition. I wash them like dishes in the kitchen sink in warm water and Fairy Liquid soap with a paper towel following the grooves and an not scared about the pressure I use! Then I drop them on a soft hand towel, wring out the wet paper towel and dry them off. Next is the controversial bit, I wring out the paper towel again and add a slight amount of WD-40 and that not only purges the grooves of any remaining water, it eliminates all static and even helps with small scratches and scuffs. When the record is coated with the oil I polish it with the wife's cleaning cloth out of her eye glasses case, but don't tell her and they shine up like new. Believe me I have the cleanest most static free record collection anywhere and I have seen no adverse reactions to the vinyl or my stylus over the last 5 years I have been doing this. I prep every record I have collected in this period like this and gone back over my collection cleaning them all! It has worked on all of them, even the ones I have owned for years that I abused as a teenager that have languished dirty and un played for years! Please use this system on your worst record and tell me it does not work!!!
It does not work
As a rule of thumb I find it most effective not to tell my wife anything at all. Ever. Have you tried borrowing her Ladyshave to see if you can peel potatoes with it? From experience I suggest you don't...... ;0)
I completely agree that this soap and water method works - but I go about it a different way.
I lay a towel down on the bathroom counter, then fill a small bowl with a touch of Dawn dishwashing liquid, add hot water to that, let it mix a bit, then get the sink water to lukewarm temp before running side one of the album or single under the faucet, getting off all surface dust/dirt.
Once pre-rinsed enough, I place the record on the towel and start really getting into the grooves with the softer part of a clean sponge, first dipping the sponge in the Dawn water mix and then proceeding to go back and forth over the vinyl in the direction of the grooves. After some time, I rinse the Dawn off and then do the same for the flip side of the record.
Once both sides have been washed, I lay side one on the towel and begin the drying process, first blowing off excess surface water with a quick blast of the hair dryer and then taking a clean, dry cloth to go around the record in one direction, in the direction of the grooves. I do the same for the second side, minus the hair dryer (because at that point, most of the water on side two has been sucked up by being against the towel while side one was being dried).
I put the album or single on the turntable platter, turn the speed to 78 and give it a final drying by running my velvet dusting brush over each side for a few moments.
This routine, while not being able to save every single record (some are just so bad they need to be replaced), has been absolutely successful for me - I even saved some 12 inch singles from my DJ days that were caked over with canine urine (don't ask; it happened when I was storing my records at my parents house during a relocation) with this Dawn method. EVERY ONE of these records play like they're new now.
When it comes to the labels, I don't put a special cover on them to protect them; I have found that they won't rip or tear even when getting wet, so long as you immediately dab gently at them with the drying cloth before starting the main drying process. I've yet to lose ONE label doing it like this, save for a 45RPM single or two which had really old, brittle labels. And even in these cases, the whole label wasn't destroyed - just some minor ripping.
I wouldn't go as far as what's being shown in this video for EVERY record I need to be cleaned; that's just insanity to me.
I find the vinyl vac works wonders for a fraction of the price and time. However, it's possible that the record itself is at fault like you said. Nice video. 😊
Just curious why you keep the brush applied after starting the vacuum? Does this serve some purpose or is it just part of the ritual? Love your videos...
Probably ritual more than anything, but I do try to ensure the liquid is spread fully across the vinyl surface as it enters the wand. No idea if that really makes a difference, so really just habit. Thanks for watching!
I just don’t know about this drying rack. it looks like the metal supports touch the surface of the grooves. Am I seeing that right?
That would be bad, but the metal is dipped in rubber, so should be fine.
I haven’t been through the comments - sorry but I didn’t see you doing any anti-static zapping - did you do that?
We do and next time, we'll show it. Thanks for watching.
Good (and no doubt time consuming/expensive) effort! In addition to what @electrajojo said about stamper life, I believe a lot of this comes down to the purity of the vinyl that was used to make the pressing - there is simply no way to remove imperfections contained within in the material itself which were there to begin with.
Theory crafting: perhaps this could be done as a sort of "linear cut and buff" at a microscopic level within the groove, but even if this were possible, chances are those contaminants are physically harder than the vinyl they are embedded into. I can only imagine this _theoretical_ approach would work on a spot-by-spot correction basis, and I doubt even the most dedicated and insane would have the patience for such a thing.
Unless it's a one-off lathe cut or something, the time and money would probably be better spent finding another copy. But of course, that's not the point of the channel! 😏
I have lots of questions but I'll keep it to a couple; I never heard of the stamper number affect the physical quality of the record. You don't find it redundant to clean with the VPI and then a Loricraft/Keith Monks machines? I don't see how any cleaning process can repair a damaged groove. You would really need to have purchased the Lp's new, and have had anal retentive(kind of) tendencies, keeping the record pristine or as pristine as possible; not touch the surfaces with your fingers, splay the inner sleeve out to minimize scratching, clean dust off. My record collection has stayed remarkably healthy. During the seventies in high school I wandered into Victor's Stereo in Chicago, one of the first things I noticed was this turntable looking device just inside the door that turned out to be a Keith Monks record cleaner free to use for customers. After learning how to use it I started bringing in LPs to clean then put them in quality sleeves purchased their. I went through all or most of my collection and have since been careful handling every record I brought home.
Definitely redundant, but I wanted to eliminate any possibility that it could be debris in the groove.
@@LetsCleanaRecord Okay, but I guess my main question is; do you think its possible to wash away damage on a record? Also is there much diff between the Loricraft and a 16.5, and a Keith Monks for that matter? Personally I've never notice much difference between one vacuum machine and another, just ease of use. I owned an original 16.5, got rid of it, too noisy. Victor's take on cleaning was that the VPI was good for routine maintenance, but not as good as the KM. They(Victor's) also thought that really dirty records required several cleanings, the idea being that cleaning once sometimes was not enough but it loosened/ dried up dirt and grime and that playing the Lp broke up this dirt, then clean again on the KM, and again if necessary. But I'm definitely sold on cavitation machines and I like the Sin Clean with bristle brushes rather than pads.
@@watdanuqta-mf5ms Absolutely not possible. Regarding different types of suction machines, I do appreciate a bi-directional platter and stiff wands, but most produce a similar result. String machines I think are better, but more finicky and an ultrasonic, a must have.
What works realy well, is spreading distilled (!) water on the record evenly and then just play it wet. No problem for the stylus, and almost all pops and clicks are gone.
Very interesting. Disappointing that such effort wasn't rewarded. I have an original 1970s copy of Rubicon by Tangerine Dream that's been through the Disco Antistat (like a Spinclean) three times and had four cleans on my Project vacuum machine. Still loads of surface noise so I've concluded it must be damaged.
Wow!! I thought using my Ultrasonic / VPI machine was enough you went all out!!! Is that a Loricraft record cleaning machine I see What do you think of it? Nice video
Yes, the Loricraft PRC6i
One trick is to spray the lp with 50% alcohol 50% distilled water solution, and play it wet. The pops and clicks are supposedly static, and the solution removes that...
I've had a couple of those US EG records over the years, I think they were made of old tires. Same goes for a lot of the US ECMs from that era. I had UKs of the same Eno LPs (including Apollo) that were super quiet. I would still take the vinyl over the digital tho, that album has some really rich guitar tone, perfect vinyl and valve stuff.
If you want a dead quiet medium, buy Cd's or SACD or stream. These little pops and noises are a part of the vinyl experience.I like it but some hate it. I do a 3 step cleaning proces and if there are some ticks and pops left.... Fine. Sometimes when the noise is too present and disturbing I'll end up buying another copy.
I noticed that the cleaning machines used did not protect the labels from getting wet. This could be a problem. My iSonic ultrasonic machine has silicone discs to protect the labels.
You're not the first to mention this. However, I've never had an issue with wet labels. If they do get a little water on them, they dry with no sign of damage. At least that's been my experience. Have you ever seen TergiKleen's recommended cleaning process? Oh my goodness, they SOAK the labels and claim no damage will happen. I'm not ready to go that far! Thanks for watching.
@@LetsCleanaRecord Regarding the Tergikleen step in your video. The guys from „Perfect Vinyl Forever“ use in their restoration process bath where they soak (with a label protector) the vinyl for a full night. I do not believe that this will restore your beloved LP but you might give it a try. Or send it over to the „Perfect Vinyl Forever“ guys and have them a last go?
Never used them, and never got a Label Wet yet.
From what I can see, you used the same brush to spread the liquids. That brush may be dirty and you may be contaminating the disc with dirt. After the ultrasonic bath let it dry or play it wet and see the difference. The ultrasonic cleaning should remove all the dirt.
We should have made that more clear, but we do use different brushes for each application of liquid, cleaned beforehand of course! I think we got that record (and the Beethoven) as clean as can be. I think it's micro-fracturing or some other form of damage.
@@LetsCleanaRecord Look under a microscope and see if there are micro-fractures or dirt. In this way you can be sure what is the problem.
I disagree about using the Studebaker. I know someone who got one because it was cheaper than the Spin Clean. It was more cheaply made than the SC, and they ended up getting the SC anyway because it was better quality. So the SC may cost more, but it’s worth it.
Good to know. I've not used the Studebaker all the much, so I appreciate the feedback.
I know one record cleaning method you haven’t tried yet - steam cleaning! The Mapleshade folks used to be advocates for steam cleaning records.
Cleveland Vinyl uses steam in his cleaning regimen.
ua-cam.com/video/QTEcMjMas-E/v-deo.htmlsi=ShAAMt0ffsu26dlq
Cleveland Vinyl uses steam in his cleaning regimen.
ua-cam.com/video/QTEcMjMas-E/v-deo.htmlsi=ShAAMt0ffsu26dlq
Interesting. Can you name a product to google for?
Static ?
Thought of that, but no, we eliminated static before listening.
Clicks and pops are caused by the hard stylus generating minute shock waves through the soft groove wall, punching out tiny holes . In other words, on a new record that has never been played, there were never any clicks or pops to start with, only surface noise. I found out about this 30 years ago. and how to thoroughly clean records. After thoroughly cleaning and vacuuming records, i use a special record preservative which prevents record ware for 200 plays. This stops the shock waves from generating through the vinyl, causing those annoying sounds. Records i purchased in the 60's and 70's have already been damaged with clicks and pops but at least i could thoroughly clean them and protect them from future damage.
To thoroughly clean and preserve my records i use....
A record cleaning machine.(Nitty Gritty 1. vacuum)
A work turntable.(Direct drive)
A mold release agent.(Last Power cleaner)
Record cleaning fluid. ( L'Art du Son )
Last Record preservative.
Interesting. I always thought that the „Last Record“ preservative should only be applied on a never played record. Was not aware of the shock wave „theory“. Could the hard stylus not by itself punch out the tiny holes?
Try the Hoover next.
Does somebody cost up at some point the total cost of all the equipment used in that process.
We better not 😂
Plus he looks like quite a professional chap. I imagine his day job hourly pay rate might have turned that record into a several hundred dollar investment 🤣
Switch to digital?
What!
I seriously doubt it is because you don't know what you're doing 😊
I have a question for you. I'm wondering about the Giotto blaster that you are using and I am curious if there is anything special a person needs to look for when getting one? I'm legally blind and I really can't see the detail in the one you're using. Do you have a recommendation for one you think would be a good one or does the $6 one on Amazon work as good as the $17 one? I remember when growing up my dad had those bulbs for his cameras but I've never had one for anything I can remember. Thanks for any advice. And I really enjoy your videos so thank you!
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
I've never seen the less expensive version, but as long as it's 7.5" tall, it should do the same job.
@LetsCleanaRecord Rodger that 👍 Thank you for the info and I will be sure it's 7.5"tall at least.
They are also a gentle non - contact way to dislodge dust from your stylus.
Listen to it while the Yule Log is on. Problem solved.😅😂🎉
try the L.A.S.T. process
I bet you wore a mask about 5 years ago (not a criticism) there would seem to be similarities in the quest to eliminate something so tiny and invisible !
Thanks for the video it was very imformative😊
and there it is, the dumbest thing I read on the internet today. Congrats
iZotope software works verry well on clicks when digital copies are made of a vinyl record. :)
After all that, you put the record on and all I hear is crackle!! Maybe you should invest in some outer sleeves for your records!
Why didn't you just use your Kirmuss? Isn't it supposed to restore records?
at the end of the video he says he used the Kirmuss but didn't work either.
I did use the Kirmuss on the Beethoven, but for sake of trying everything, I decided to take a different route with the Eno.
My apollo lonhad this problem..until cleaned on my Project Vcs vac machine. Pops and ticks gone. Machine was half price tho..black friday.
Or, just buy a cd for flawless sound, better channel seperation and higher dynamic range (depending on the mastering).
I know I’ll get roasted for this but, Here’s an unpopular comment in the vinyl community. Elmers glue cleaning fixes a lot of issues with dirty records. Got a Beatles promo LP drying now. Side one improved 75%.
What a revelation that, no matter how intensive your cleaning process is, some records may always be noise free. I wonder what Charles Kirmuss would say about this. 😂
Seriously, though, I thought the Kirmuss system would be my end-game solution to clean, noise-free records. I guess not.
I use Ajax on my DSD:s.
Very dirty records that do not need the Tergikleen. First AI number 15 two minutes, second AI Enzymatic two minutes, third AI Super Clean or Archivist two minutes, fourth pure water or distilled water two minutes. Then into the ultrasonic cleaner (either the KLAUDIO KD-CLN-LP200T or the Degritter Marl II) for 8 minutes. After the records are dry, an application of Last record preservative. Up to now excellent results. BTW, I now have two vacuum machines: the VPI Cyclone and the Pro-Ject VC-S3. I have beennusing the Pro-Ject for the dirty records with excellent results. The suction is stronger than the VPI and it rotates at higher speed. I acquired different suction tubes for each of the AI products and water. I use the VPI with records that are not too dirty and new records. These last with the L’art Du Son fluid.
If one dont like surface noice, dont buy records. I listen to CD Vinyl and cassette tape. Enjoy them all with what they each bring to the music experience. When I buy a vintage record, it allways get a wash. Just use neutral dishwasher soap, a microfiber cloth. Wash in soap water in the sink and rinse under the tap. Allways make the record sound better, and lower surface noise a bit. Done that for two decades.
Have you ever experimented with using heated water? I had some "uncleanable" records with constant surface noise, that became dramatically quieter after using hot distilled water in a Spin Clean. While the record is in the bath, it will start to look badly warped, but it returns to its prior flatness as soon as it cools down after you remove it. I found no loss of detail as some have said would happen. Maybe give it a try.
Piss off vinyl and switch to CD
Helluva lot less bullshit to go through with crappy QC these days.
I gave up with the f'n things 3 years ago... never looked back. Happy with my Yammy CD Player & amp. Records hardly get any use!
Well there is 21 minutes of my life I'll never get back, having learned literally *nothing* about "What To Do With Persistent Pops And Clicks On Your Vinyl Records". Hugh FAIL.
Sorry to have disappointed, but it really was about ticks and pops that persist even after extensive cleaning. At least that's what we're hearing. What's your take?
The records are damaged, not dirty. It seems simple enough.
I believe you are correct sir!
A possible solution for the brave
Some PVC items tend to develop a sticky surface over the years. The reason for this is that plasticizers settle on the surface. When this happens with records, the dirt sticks to the sticky surface and cannot be removed with conventional cleaning products.
The sticky surface can be removed with turpentine oil (poisonous, very aggressive, probably completely unsuitable for records) or orange oil cleaner. In my experience, orange oil cleaner - heavily diluted - is suitable for records.
Danger! It must be a concentrated orange oil cleaner. Here in Germany there are also household cleaners that smell like oranges, but they are unsuitable.
Danger! Orange oil cleaner is a very strong and aggressive cleaning agent. Use gloves, safety glasses, work in a well-ventilated room.
I use Oranex® diluted with distilled water (1:50). Orange oil cleaner dissolves all sorts of adhesives. This means that the diluted orange oil cleaner cannot be used with a VPI because it detaches the velvet lips from the suction tube. But with a Loricraft it works very well.
I apply the diluted orange oil cleaner to the record and spread it 1 minute forward and 1 minute backwards. Then I let the Loricraft suck out the liquid. I then clean the record like any other record.
I have had very good success with orange oil cleaner, but if you use orange oil cleaner, you do so at your own risk. Don't blame me if something goes wrong!
Very interesting. A friend of mine who cleans as a hobby record collections on a constant inside fleemarket in Duesseldorf (yes, I am also from Germany) does also use diluted orange oil.
Need a label protector
Since opening my record store in 2019, I’ve cleaned well over 20,000 LPs with my SpinCleans and have ruined zero record labels. Yes, sometimes they get a little wet. Wipe with the cloth, air dry, no damage.
As loricraft works a lot of dust fel on the record😢...the same french fries😅
You know what helps as well? An overpressured room and sterile clothing. Jesus man, you’re taking this cleaning way too serious. I just cleaned an original Nina Simone record, just a simple cleaning routine in the Knosti Disco Antistat with QS Audio Vinyl Cleaning fluid and it sounds as new.
You have a point...
Hi, I like the industrial look of the KLAUDIO, obviously it's built like a tank. Sorry that your efforts were not rewarded. Bye
why not try the Kirmuss Audio restoring system . He would say that you just waste time !...
I’d be more concerned with the warp of the vinyl 🤷♂️
True it is warped. We did a video on flattening a really tough to flatten record using Vinyl Flat.
It was a very worthwhile experiment. Noisewise, we knew from minute one that classical and the like "preferred" CD; pointless fighting it.
Each of us has a tipping point at which vinyl become tolerable. Learn to nudge that point; get a kick out of reducing the noise, rather than bemoaning the remainder. I use a combination of cleaning as well as I can (surface then US), and relaxing over the remaining clicks and pops. Incidentally, I just changed my amp of 30 years to a more powerful one, and I straightaway felt that unwanted noise was less intrusive.
It is a great recording, but a very quit recording. No matter what you do, there is always going to be noise.
Groove wear can’t be cleaned. Nice way to show off all your expensive gear tho
ever consider a good self help book
Too busy playing records!
Indeed. My solution to pops is to always have a fire going in the fireplace when i listen.
Your equipment is beautiful. But I have to break it to you. It's a hard fact to swallow. The best way to clean a record is with an infant's hair brush (any) and Dawn. It's just that simple. Any tap water is fine. Really. How? Wet the record. Rub the Dawn into the grooves with your fingers. Use the brush. Not lightly, but with vigor. Scrub in all directions. With the groove, across the grooves, this brush does not scratch. I tried to scratch a record with it, as a test. You can't. Scrub the record like an old frying pan. Then rinse the record and brush in warm running water. Keep using the brush, scrub all the soap away. And then, use a cotton dish towl to immediately dry the record. Don't let the water dry on the record. Use the towel to go around and around, until it is dry.
Then the record is ready to play.
The first thing you will notice is a quiet surface. The second thing you will notice is that absolutely no residue collects on the stylus, because the record is scrupulously clean.
It only took me 50 years to learn this. I spent most of my life using special gentle brushes, fluids, a nice Vacuum cleaner. It was all in vain.
A record needs to be washed until it is clean. Nothing else really works.
An infant's hair brush? I bought mine at Walmart for $3. You have to look in the infant department. It's just a plastic brush with very soft nylon bristles.
I was very skeptical about this, and tried it just to experiment. After the first record, I knew it was the answer.
Very interesting. While I own a Degritter Mk2 and also a Keith Monk prodigy I will for sure try your process to learn. Lets see.
@Vinyl-Go-Pilates_Reiner I think you will experience the same euphoria I felt. Use warm water...as warm as the record can take without warping.
Or stop obsessing over every small snap, crackle & pop. It's part of the medium.
Do we clean our records to minimize them? Of course. But like it or not, surface noise WILL happen. Trying to eliminate it completely is a fool's errand.
Seems like a lot of effort.
A ridiculous amount! But, I really wanted to eliminate any possibility of dirt causing the pops and ticks.
Great video but being honest here... way to much money and effort for this guy. Would have to be a really hard to find LP for me to consider this much work.
Fair point. I chose the Eno because it was similar in pops and clicks to the Beethoven, yet both had been cleaned. But you're right, a ridiculous amount of cleaning for that album.
The amount of money wasted on useless cleaning machines sold by snake oil companies is absurd 😂. Just buy a CD player-better sound, no cleaning needed. CDs provide a higher dynamic range (up to 96 dB vs. vinyl’s ~70 dB), lower distortion, and no surface noise, pops, or crackles. They’re also immune to physical wear, unlike vinyl, which degrades with every play, no matter how careful you are. CDs also reproduce bass and treble more accurately because they don’t rely on the physical limitations of a stylus tracking a groove.
And for those claiming vinyl sounds better (pro tip: it doesn’t), let’s not forget the countless flaws: wow and flutter (pitch instability), inner groove distortion (loss of quality as the stylus approaches the center), channel crosstalk (less stereo separation), and sensitivity to dust and scratches. Vinyl is also incapable of reproducing subsonic or ultrasonic frequencies accurately due to mechanical limitations, whereas CDs handle the full audible spectrum with precision.
On top of that, vinyl lovers spend thousands on turntables, preamps, and needles to minimize these flaws, but they’ll never fully eliminate them. Meanwhile, a $50 CD player delivers perfectly consistent playback every time, no maintenance required. 😂
It might be that you are watching the wrong videos. Anyhow, all your arguments are correct. But still I lost all my joy for music first using CDs and then later HiRes streaming. I found the love for music again when I got back to vinyl. I urge you to read the article „God is in the nuances“ in Stereophile. It is freely on the web. Start with page 3. You will learn about a very interesting experiment of a German psychologist called Jürgen Ackermann.
@ Interesting read. I must say, I have nothing against people enjoying vinyl. In fact, I own a turntable and a collection of records myself. However, the obsession surrounding vinyl, with some spending enormous amounts of money and time on what is ultimately a flawed format, seems misplaced. Many of these individuals are chasing the idea of a perfect-sounding format, but they're looking in the wrong direction.
Vinyl should be appreciated for what it is-with all its imperfections-because that’s precisely what gives this analog medium its charm. Those who pour money into this endless and unattainable quest are only fueling the profits of snake oil companies.
@ Thank you for taking the time and reading the experiment. I guess your statement summarizes it very well, but … everybody is entitled to what makes him joyful (as long as she or he is not harming anyone). I am extremely surprised how for example tempering vinyl changes the surface noise. So I temper/relax currently all my vinyl. I also enjoy clean vinyl so I use my Degritter MK2 for cleaning. Not harming anybody but giving me more enjoyment.
Buy CDs, problem solved...
LP pressed with recycled vinyl? Perhaps? Pressing plant quality issues ? Worn out stampers? Who knows.
Play the records wet.
What?! Are you serious? I've never heard of that.
@@LetsCleanaRecordyou never heard of that?A lot of Dj's in the 70's took a mixture of isoprpanol and destilled water and make the record wet before playing. When you did that once you have to continue to play them wet or clean them afterwards. It wasn't the best for your stylus but at least it helped to keep the ticks and pops to a minimum. Some styluses back them could resist this kind of playing.
it didn't help at all!
Yeah..let me go take out a second mortgage to afford all these cleaning implements