Should We All Ride Recumbent Bikes? | GCN Tech Show Ep.87
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- If recumbent bicycles are so much faster than a normal aero road bike, why shouldn't we ride them? We've also got new shoes from Fizik, Harley Davidsons for children and all of your favourite features including the fastest entry into the bike vault ever?!
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What do you think about Recumbent bikes? Are they a good idea or are they ridiculous?
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📹 Trying A Recumbent Bike | gcn.eu/Recumbent
Music - licensed by Epidemic Sound:
Big Band Funk 3 (Sting Version) - Stefan Netsman
Strending Kids - Ooyy
Swoosh This - Johan Hynynen
Hip Hop - Jazzy Cool
Feriado - Cornelio
Photos: © Velo Collection (TDW) / Getty Images & © Bettiniphoto / www.bettiniphoto.net/
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What do you think about Recumbent bikes?
Insert Clarkson saying stupid! here...
I wanna see Ollie take up his hill climb season again, on a recumbent this time though.
I'm a cyclist and have been for decades but nearly drove over one on a pedestrian crossing. He was invisible. Seriously, there was no eye/brain registration and he had a big wobbly flag on it.
The recumbent content is great. Would love to see more.
Bring it on, please!
You simply should ride a recumbent, it is all about fun and speed. I love recumbents, the best bikes ever made.
They are the way to go if you have the roads for them.
Question is where can you get one in the UK?
A lot of myths stated as disadvantages by someone who hasn't ridden a recumbent. Balance? Uphills? Saddle sores? All wrong.
Reminded me of the annoying tandemphobic comments we get all the time, particularly on our MTB tandem.
Recumbent TRIKES are the future especially for seniors.
The best one out there is the HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS.
For seniors, the Scorpion PLUS with its higher seat is the ticket.
Also, theTRIOT trikes.
They are definetly better for your spine
Yes, I'm afraid that GCN Tech has lost an awful lot of credibility with me because they chose to make summary judgments without actually knowing a topic. I've owned recumbents, ridden them for more than a day or even a few months and sold them because the drawbacks didn't outweigh the benefits in my case (and only in my case; everyone should give them a serious try and make their own decision), but at least I gave them up based on real experience, not half-baked assumptions.
@@amightysailingman Sorry to hear that you had sold more than one recumbent.
Did any or either of the models fold?
How long ago was this?
What models did you own?
You're wrong about balance, once you're used to it you don't even think about balancing, just like a regular bike.
Also, comfort is absolute, no soreness even after 12 hours riding. You have no pressure points, no weight on your arms, no neck pain.
Climbing, yes, generally slower, but not by much.
Visibility, actually everyone stares so you get lots more respect. Obviously the lower you go the more this becomes an issue.
Agree on balancing, although many have observed that having a strong core is helpful.
Everything true
All this is true. Also climbing is not really a problem once you get spinning.
Surely it is more difficult to balance because you can't shift your hips to balance, so rely on steering to shift your weight?
@@steveco1800 nope, it's not an issue. Honestly, I recommend trying it. You might not want to go back though! Only mountain bikes are not great recumbent, because you can't really lift the front wheel or move your weight back on steep descents.
You guys should interact w/ bike shops that sell recumbents and get the whole picture on the benefits of recumbents rather than speculating the disadvantages/cons and listing only a few pros only related to speed. I'd love more recumbent content! People aren't aware of them and they have helped a lot of older, disabled riders get out and ride again or for the first time!
Not only a recumbents great for the older, slower riders, for me as a fit young engineer, recumbents are the epitome of cycling design and the pursuit of efficiency.
Negus im glad someone said it.
He kinda just set back and let him mash all over the “disadvantages”.
It seems like he wanted to say something, but didn’t.
Spot on explanation . I too would love to see more recumbent content but a stand alone channel as great as that would be I fear they may not be enough content . But I would sub anyway and pay a Patreon fee if the content warranted it ..
@@GunganWorks The design is what attracted me to recumbents . The Cruzbike Vendetta , the ICE Vtx and the Catrike 700 and the list goes on are works of art in design and execution with added comfort .
I can commute to work in about an hour, and I'm not a hot drippy mess on the M5 recumbent. On the road bike I'm quite shattered after that same ride.
Why discuss 2 people which never have ridden a recumbent the disadvantages of recumbents? I hear just prejudices.
Definitely. I've riden recumbents in proper races and these people just aren't the people I would ask for their opinion on them. While they make a good point or two they just have no experience or knowledge. It's like me talking to them about regular bicycles.
Sounds like you just hear prejudice in all things, these guys can have their opinion all they want, I ride a bent and know that most bent people are freeking wierdos and we deserve the odd-ball moniker that goes with these special machines, most of the stuff these guys are saying is on point.
So true. I stopped watching these clowns after 6 minutes.
@@whatyoudo9773 what’s a bent?
I thought this would be a great video about recumbents from GCN. I've been pretty close to exclusively riding short wheel-based (SWB) recumbents for the last 5 or 6 years and wanted to hear their views. Quite a disappointment to hear from people who have never ridden them!
Advantages and disadvantages are definitely something to think about when considering if they are right for you. Depending on your terrain, level of traffic, distances, ... I believe there is a recumbent for nearly everyone. Only those riding 90% of their miles in busy city centres and require a lot of manoeuvrability would prefer a regular (road) bike. I've cycled different SWB in Ghent (Belgium) without a hitch!
My take on the advantages and disatvantages:
Pros:
Obviously faster due to aerodynamics.
More ergonomic (more comfortable), but pay attention with selecting your seat as a bad fit can have bad results. A good seat would leave you with plenty of comfort and no pressure or strain.
Safer crashes (not less). A lower centre of gravity makes the impact less severe, but you will also fall on your side in stead of face first. In case of a head-on collision, your legs will take most of the impact and protect your head and torso to a good extent.
And of course, remember the fun! Imagine cruising down a hill at 45 miles an hour whilst laying in a chair!
Disadvantages:
Visibility can be an issue. Depending on the seat height, you will be more or less visible. I mounted a B&M brakelight on the top of my seat and a 100 lumen front light (both hub dynamo powered) to help this issue. In case this issue puts you off, the best solution is to ride the tallest recumbent which fits you.
Most recumbents weigh more than their road bike counterparts. At a similar price range, youll find similar bikes though. A €2000 SWB will happily keep up with a similarly priced road bike. A €3-4000 SWB can be lighter and outperform a lot of similarly priced road bikes.
Hills are a bit touchy, with training and technique, a recumbent can still climb quite well. Small and light wheels will perform better. For short hills, I lift my bum and press my shoulders into the seat (good workout for your abs!), allowing all my energy to go straight into the pedal. I believe this is more efficient compared to standing up from the pedals.
GCN, please do try a variety of recumbents for a number of tests and update us on your ideas surrounding them.
I agree.
Giving opinions without trying it is the reason why we can't have nice things (recumbents) on GCN :)
"Safer crashes". Unless a car crashes into you, at this point you're screwed in a recumbent because your head is where an SUV headlight is.
I've never ridden one, but did feel they were really stretching it trying to come up with disadvantages. For instance saddle sores. From what I've heard, recumbants make excellent touring bikes, because of how comfortable the seating position is, you don't get sore even when riding really long distance day after day.
Another advantage not yet stated - there is pretty much no way to go Over The Bars when doing a hard stop.
@@wtfiswiththosehandles If a car crashes into you, its already gone dreadfully wrong no matter what you're riding, if anything.
did you ride high racers? I've ridden the Baccetta Carbon Aero 2.0. I must say.......you listed comfort as a DISADVANTAGE??? The recumbent I rode is literally 100% comfortable, its amazing. Literally no discomfort from the bike, just the effort. No neck pain, no wrist pain, no arm pain, no groin pain. Its like sitting in a lazy boy! And boy do they cut through the wind, very fast. Cornering feels AMAZING, like being in a fighter jet. They are just different than upright bikes and neither can replace the other. Try one if you get the chance!
You must like your Fanny pack as well!
@@abu3ola Did you know that you can actually carry luggage on a recumbent? Thought not
The only reason we don't all ride Recumbents is because they were banned from Professional competition in the 1930's.
Thank you for making my point. I realize most of us are not competing professionally and only partially care what the UCI does (Yes, there are a few Posers out there). We have however seen tremendous specialization in the last two decades. Yes, recumbent bikes have been around for longer than that, but 20 years ago when you walked into most bike shops you had the choice of a road bike or mountain bike. With a mountain bike you could supposedly do a little bit of everything. Times have changed. Now there are several flavors of road bikes and even more variations of mountain bikes, hybrid bikes, and commuter bikes. There are even specialized bikes for cargo delivery. These new types of bikes have made new types of cycling possible that weren't even a thought 20 years ago. No one bike is perfect for all situations, including recumbents. If someone is looking to buy a bike with an eye on competition, then the UCI regs are much more important in his or her buying decision and would do buy a bike that meets his or her needs.
Hmmm... Have you ever tried to go on loose, sandy road in the middle of nowhere? With recumbent it is "a bit" more difficult ;P
@@pajakgdynia Or "A line" at Whistler. I'd rather take my chances with Martyn's Random Tandem.
@@pajakgdynia Yes, I have ridden on gravel and it is not as easy as it is on a Mountain Bike, but it is easier than on a racer which would not have been able to do it at all. But that is not really the point. We ride different bikes for different situations, and given that we all agree that Recumbent bikes are Faster, more Comfortable and better for your Health, why are we not riding more of them?
@@pajakgdynia Did you try it with a racing bike?
I think everyone would want to see Ollie do one of his hill climbing challenges... ON A RECUMBENT!
How about the steepest road in the world? This time no e-bike variant.
@@ltrtg13 good idea
JPow doing a CX course on a recumbent?
Angliru on recumbent would be interresting!
The segment could be called the "reclimber"
How can these two make blanket statements about recumbent bikes without ever having ridden one? They are just repeating myths if they have no direct experience!
@@Agent-vj3ns You are one ignorant little punk. Your intelligence is just beaming! You should never make comments in public. Recumbent riders do not have anything hard pushing up their rear. Maybe you are the one who is gay if you like that feeling!
Fine point, but the vast majority of us haven't considered them, because they seem like it wouldn't be worth all the trouble; it looks like absolute hell...so educate us please.
书中自有黄金屋 it is possible if you are motivated enough, on a recumbent its pretty much impossible.
"I have never been on a recumbent, but i guarantee...." oh dear......
Test ride the HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS recumbent TRIKE.
It is the best recumbent trike out there.
For seniors, the Scorpion PLUS with its higher seat.
Also, the TRIOT trike.
@@StellarFella You know what, I would love to argue with you about the Scorpion being the best out there. Unfortunately, it's far more important that we can even have a discussion about the best recumbent because we live in an age where the competition in the fast recumbent trike segment is filled with such a rich selection of great choices. Ride on!
I tried a carbontrikes custom and it was faster than the vtx and scorpion fs for me
But it's $15k :(
I may have missed it, but I've yet to read comments on *the tremendous advantage recumbent bikes provide to people with disabilities.* Whether it's simply a bad back, neck/wrist/shoulder problem, or truly challenged riders missing limbs or paralyzed, *_the many innovative designs of recumbents allow these people to exercise, achieve independence and enjoy the great outdoors._*
In response to the question of saddle sores, this doesn't happen. First off the seat is usually padded & your weight is distributed along the entire length of your back; unlike regular bikes where the contact point is only your butt. For balance issue, an experienced rider can pick that up in a few minutes; inexperienced riders might need 2 but this is very doable.
I thought that too .... could never happen and I've ridden 250 miles in a day myself on a recumbent, but I heard from Amanda Coker that she did in fact get a few sores on her back along the way so, switching between bikes was important to her records.
@@barefootbiker It can always happen, never say never, when the seat is absolute wrong shape to body. But in general the comfort is miles above a small saddle.
Yes, recumbents and velomobiles should be more popular. When are you going to set up a new channel - GRN, Global Recumbent Network 😄
And please make more recumbent content!
Just get them watching your channel, Saukki! That should help educate them. :D
First off, you state you've never ridden one. You need to go ride one. Any one.
I've had 2 wheeled bents, and trikes and I also own a velomoibile. I started riding bents in 2005 and never went back to those tiny little seats. I didn't do it for medical reasons either. I did it because the first time I rode one, even as wobbly as I was having not been used to it, I loved it. Right off it was so much fun to ride again. And no discomfort what so ever.
That said, being lower: not so far to fall. Not leaning over all the time and putting pressure on wrists and neck. And those tiny little seats....oy. Can you get saddle sores: nope. Can you get up out of the seat in the reclined position: yep, even when riding. Can't power up to climb: well, there are many bent riders that can easily keep up with uprights on hills. I personally hate to climb so I gear down and enjoy the view.
So really we have to think about why are we doing this? If it is to be the next TDF winner, then stay on the bikes that are required by their rules. If you want to lean back, enjoy the scenery, and just have a good time riding, then at least TRY one.
It's getting tiring to hear people comparing uprights to recumbents with all the advantage and disadvantage conversations. Why don't we hear how basket ball is so much more less impact that football or rugby? Golf is so much more comfortable than swimming. Because those swimmers are so low down in that water. Can't believe they do that when they could be walking on this nice grass......
Just go give one a try.
Wonderfully said!
I bought a recumbent three-wheeler a few years ago, and before unrelated health issues forced me to give it up, I was doing at least 3500 km every year, mostly just my daily commute. Having said that, I can also say that for me, there is no going back. If I ever ride an upright bike again, it will be if someone lends me there because I will not buy one myself!
As the to why recumbents are not more popular I think it has to do with the ICU: their rules define a bike as being upright (in practice, but not in the actual words of the rules). Thus, when you see a bike race, is features upright bikes, and thus people think that is the only kind of bike available.
agree with you dude. no need to compare. just embrace any human powered vehicle.
You should have done your homework before you made this video, The last GCN recumbent vid was fantastic , this one less so .... much much less so
Not “much much less so”
This is a far cry from fantastic
We need more recumbent content, for sure.
More on recumbents but stop speculating on the disadvantages. Hint: most cases you are wrong. Get someone who knows them into the discussion. Show some comparisons Watt for watt recumbent VS diamond frame.
Recumbents: For just 250 watts, you'll achieve 50 smiles per hour.
190 watts and I'm puffin like billy
I have a 750 watt Bafang BBS02 and love it
I see what you did there. It made me SMILE!
The HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS is the best recumbent TRIKE out there.
For seniors, the Scorpion PLUS and the TRIOT trikes are the bomb.
That's on the best racing models, not any average recumbent. Better than a regular bike still, I am seriously considering a reverse trike recumbent but first theres a lot to research to sort the good from the crap.
Please do a CGN show with two people which never have ridden a roadbike. They should discuss the disadvantages of roadbikes with each other.
Disadvantages: The handlebars are loopy, that has to be less aerodynamic as there is more bar in the wind. I guarantee it.
A road bike feels like a historical bycycle with one big weel in the front (penny-farthing). It's so high, if you fall, you fall from a very high position. Crazy how much head winds torture you on that thing. And those saddle sores! All your weight on this small seat? Insane.
@@BellePrinssen All that said, I'm yet to be overtaken by a recumbent. You're always in the way, and it looks clumsy.
Good point, but please explain the overall 'why' of a recumbant if not due to injury?
Have you seen those seats? they look like they're designed specifically to lower your sperm count. There's a reason not a single chair in the world looks like a road bike seat: it's because it's a terrible design. Nobody would sit on those by choice.
And the way those road cyclists' necks are cranked back? Must be terrible for the spine. Hunched over with their asses up, shoulders down, and necks back? I bet road cyclists are single-handedly keeping the chiropractic industry afloat.
I remember being passed by an older gentleman on a recumbent bicycle.
Well played, sir. Well played.
People that don’t ride recumbents shouldn’t review them.
Nonsense. That's the whole point of looking at them.
@@NaeMuckle Not when "looking at them" consists of factually incorrect statements based upon NO actual knowledge whatsoever. They did all recumbents a great disservice with their "review" in my humble opinion.
please get Oli into an aero recumbent for a longer time. Make it happen GCn
It takes some time to get your 'bent muscles in - they are a bit different. YMMV, but 400 miles to fully adjust might be reasonable. Just jumping onto a recumbent for a test would definitely disadvantage the recumbent compared to your usual DF bikes.
@@Jimboblay74 Concur - you can generally get going in a few minutes, got to get rolling faster than the "minimum" speed for balance. Riding a bent for the first time is like being a complete newbie rider all over, which is an interesting experience. I felt good after 10 km, fine after 100 km and at 1000 km I was completely competent in heavy traffic. Now I've done 10,000 km mostly commuting, and its just normal.
@@criggie That very closely matches my experience. The first 30 minutes were "interesting", though!
In currently on a lowracer bike tour through the Balkans. I did a similar tour last year on my upright bike and I can only recommend the recumbent. I'm doing 200 km a day with a 30 k/h average speed. When I get off the bike I feel absolutely fine compared to last year were I had a sore bum and couldn't undo my zippers because my hands were so num. I think the greatest benefit might be improved handling compared to a road bike. I can do 95 k/h downhill on a road that isn't great and feel very safe.
Greetings from Kosovo, 1000k in 2500 to go.
@Pieter Jan Zijlstra I am a student and do not have the budget to buy a DF. I am going to build a fairing for my lowracer though.
I do not have recumbent experience but have always been fascinated. They say the Cruzbike design solved the climbing issue, as you can use the force on the handlebar to counter the force on the pedals like you do when you stand or sprint out of the saddle on an upright back. they also have outstanding race results on very hilly courses to prove it. Like winning the 2016 California Triple crown (before the organizers tried to change the rules...to create a separate category...in a parrallel to the 1930's UCI story)
Yes, it is true. Cruzbikes can climb much better than fixed bottom bracket bikes. I own both and the difference is obvious.
Speaking about using force.. Recumbent saddle allows to push as hard as you can (no up to your weight or so), saddle is supporting your back. It is a kind of disadvantage.. because you can break your knees if you ride inproperly.
Handlebar.. is a place to keep arms relaxed. Look for some movies with Maria Parker.. Even in hard group ride, she looks "relaxed" (while they ride 50mph)
Someone's also added a tilting module to turn one into a trike :) ua-cam.com/video/DnbRRRD-prI/v-deo.html
I can't speak for any other respondents (limited time to review comments right now), but GCN, being based in the UK, should do a video exploring your home country's recumbent manufacturer - ICE, Inspired Cycle Engineering. Their ICE VTX+ is insanely fast, and ICE employs the world champion rider.
The two aspects of the video I'd like to respond to concern the lack of ability to climb and trike height relative to automobiles.
The notion trikes can't climb (or recumbents in general) is not entirely correct. Consider that any cycle is only as good as it's "engine," and three-wheeled recumbents especially have a demographic problem in this area in that the majority of users are older, out of shape and/or physically disabled in some way.
I ride a heavily modified 2019 Terratrike Sportster with carbon fiber front and rear wheels and a Schlumpf High Speed Drive in place of the front crank. I'm about 195 (used to be 250) and do loads of long distance riding. I can take any hill at a competitive speed to any road bike if, of course, the "engine" on that road bike is comparable to my own. Yes, Greg Lemond and Lance Armstrong would kick my butt riding big wheels.
As far as the height relative to vehicles, that's a function of design. The Sportster and HP Velotechnic Scorpion both sit such that my average 70" frame can look in the window of the average sedan. The ICE VTX+ and Catrike 700 are both much lower and cannot. They are also much faster.
I love your shows. They've taught me a huge amount. I'd like to suggest, though, that with the aging of we baby boomers, a little more comprehensive education on recumbents might be in order. The best is right in your back yard. Seek them out.
"Should we all ride recumbents" it says in the title. That is too narrow a scope if you ask me, because of course it depends very much on what you want to do with a bicycle. I've been doing most of my cycling with recumbents and especially with the fully enclosed velomobiles with 15.000 to 25.000 km a year.
The velomobile is very versatile. It's a lot of fun racing it, the longer the distance, the better. But it's mostly used for commuting over longer distances. It absolutely shines there, because it is easy to take some stuff with you and you can commute in any kind of weather, all through the seasons in good comfort.
It's also very good for touring and (ultra) long distances events either with or without camping gear. When you go camping and want to get to a specific far away destination, the velomobile is superb. The weight disadvantage uphill mostly disappears because no extra panniers, backpack or trailer is needed. Everything you need goes in the back and next to the seat. You can even easily do groceries, so when you want to live car-free, the velomobile may be just the thing.
Most models don't do well on unpaved paths and the turning circle is often quite large, so the best use is on the road. Rolling hills are a blast. The aerodynamics get you up to speed on the downhill and it is easy to maintain momentum uphill and fly over the next hilltop. In areas with lots of steep hills you'd better use something else. A velomobile goes scary fast downhill and is slow uphill. The velomobile is also not so good for riding in large groups. You will find next to zero aerodynamic advantage riding close together, which makes it the ultimate TT bicycle. The most aerodynamic models are so optimized that often times you do not notice from which direction the wind comes. With the wind coming from the left or right front, there is still a net forward force, like you have when sailing a boat into the wind. This may be the most amazing aspect of a velomobile.
@Jeff Jones that's what I wrote. In a roundabout way :-)
quick question, wtf happens in traffic
@@patwilliam543 good question, I think the same you do on an upright cycle pray no-one clips/hit you with their car/van or lorry, spits on you or throws rubbish or open cans of drink at you.
Awaits launch of Global Recumbent Network
😂
Well, it's Global - Cycling - Network. Riding a recumbents is cycling too, so the name has it covered already
@@hoekie3652 in concept, true, but obviously not in attitude yet
Having ridden several recumbents for about 10 years and having switched back to upright bicycles, here are my thoughts:
- recumbents SHOULD be more popular, they're tremendously fun and mass production would lower costs
- velomobiles offer protection and speed, but are low and noisy and sweaty inside.
- double 26' or 28' two-wheeled recumbents are most compatible with other bicycles and traffic in general. Speed and visibility AND easier handling.
- if you ride mostly on decent road surfaces and aren't into massive climbs, recumbents are superior
- rear suspension can be a bonus for less than perfect roads
I've returned to uprights because of my love for climbing, but I really hope to be able to get a recumbent on the side again in the future.
They are massive fun - and not really that hard to master.
Ever seen a group ride populated by recumbents?
@@indonesiaamerica7050 Yup, often
Bruno I love climbing and have been pretty impressed with how my Lighning P-38 climbs compared to my upright bike climb times. The trade off is it has a fairly upright seat so isn't as aerodynamic as a low-racer, but for me climbing was more important.
Yes, there's always choices to make. And I've heard many good things about the Lightning. I loved to be as flat as possible on my Optima HighBaron to get great speed with little effort, but climbing was hard. And I truly enjoy climbing out of the saddle with an upright bike. But if I ever find space and funds for a recumbent on the side, I'd really like something like an M5 M-racer for outright speed and giggles again.
@@brunocyclist I had an M-racer as my commuter bike. Fantastically comfortable and exceptionally fast. Very twitchy though, I crashed 3 times, all on damp/wet roads when I hit a little oil. I would recommend something a little less twitchy. With love, Ken
Recumbent bikes are not just about going fast or speed. In comparison, they allow rider to travel further with less saddle sore, shoulder pain, wrists pain, or back pain... all that are worth smiling about.
Lack of operation & practice is why people consider the "disadvantages" mentioned in the video.
Try riding one (without pre-conception & bias) for 2 weeks straight; as you develop the specific skills and muscles utilized for recumbent as regular bicycle; then determine the pros & cons of one vs the other.
Once you've mastered riding a recumbent, allow yourself to ride faster with lower power output.
The myth of back pain on a recumbent or need for relief of back pain due to long hours in the saddle will be negated, when you get to your destination in shorter time than a regular bike with less power consumption.
Same can be said about regular bike. Get on it for the first time, after 30 minutes your ass will be sore. But get some time in the saddle, and 5 hours will be a breeze, no wrist, back or ass pains.
What's your point?
And yes, I tried recumbent for several hours. It was amazingly fast on an open road outside of town. But it was sluggish, frustrating and dangerous in traffic.
A lot of the less than positive perceptions about recumbents are based on vanity.
@@jmilton5842 Nice argument. Don't hold back and say that people who didn't like recumbents are fascist and racist.
@@wtfiswiththosehandles I ride my 7 different recumbents in all kinds of traffic. It is no more dangerous than any other bike. Maybe you had a lemon or you didn't give enough time. It usually takes from about 2-4 weeks to start getting recumbent legs. With my velomobile I keep up with city traffic. Not only that but everyone driving, walking, and jogging have their cell phone out taking pictures of me and my bright orange velomobile. And most kids yell out cool and I want one of those. The really fast and serious road bike riders give me thumbs up and say that is so cool. As for as sluggish, all 7 of my recumbents are very fast in sprints. Maybe it is the engine! And I am 67! I can ride 200 miles in a day and my ass never gets sore! I did ride road bikes and mtb for years. Do you sit on a hard, narrow seat bent over at home and work? Or do you sit on a nice wide, comfy recliner with your feet up?
@@SuperOlderfart If you believe that riding recumbent in traffic is no more dangerous than regular bike, then you obviously lack imagination.
Lack of safety and inability to easily go over smallest obstacles severely limit usefulness of this type of bike.
Want to sit in a recliner all day long, go ahead. I dread what you think about walking or running, with all this bobbing up and down, and not being able to put your feet up.
I would love to see some recumbent vs regular bike on flat, ascents, descents and mayby some cyclocross stuff with proper tyres?
Someone gave me a recumbent to race because they knew I was a very fast mtber and loved to troll roadies. Showed up to race in a 600 mile stage race split up into three 200 mile mountain stages with between 16,000 to 20,000 feet of climbing each stage. The first stage at the start people were looking at me like I showed up to the wrong event and after I finished 5th they congratulated me on a well fought effort. At the second stage when I took first some riders started to mumble it wasn't fair all bikes were in one category, for context no bent in the past had ever finished anywhere but near last in prior years. After finishing first in the final stage and winning the overall by a mere 8 mins some riders were downright upset and the following week the rule book was changed and I was reclassified into my own division. This actually enraged about 95% of the cycling body and the event director had to issue a retraction and an apology due to all the hate mail he was getting.
A fast and skilled rider will be fast on anything they ride, you just need to find a fast enough ride who couldn't give two shits about what other people think about them to see what a recumbent can truly do.
just see the rojoracing vids and strava
Just a funny vid ua-cam.com/video/ZVIpDAgeR0E/v-deo.html
On descents, recumbents are a BLAST compared to an upright bike. I have a Bacchetta Giro 20 recumbent, Kona road bike and an old Trek mtb. The recumbent descend so much faster than the upright bikes due to aerodynamic streamline. My old folding bike (it's damaged and now its gone) descend the slowest due to its very upright position.
GCN you're doing your last video about recumbents a bit of a disservice by giving you opinions and judging their pros and cons without any experience on said platform. At least in the last video, it was hands-on and the presenter gave his first-hand opinion which is only a snapshot of what it would be had he had more than a few hours of practice. I do thank you for at least shedding a little light on the subject of recumbents and it would be awesome if someone from you talented crew could give one an honest go and give an opinion after they have mastered the machine. I have a rather unique background with my recumbent and if you would like to learn more I'd be willing to share more of my story but for now, here's a very little teaser of what I've done to show what bents can do.
Someone gave me a recumbent to race because they knew I was a very fast mtber and loved to troll roadies who took themselves too serious. I showed up to race in a 600 mile stage race split up into three 200 mile mountain stages with between 16,000 to 20,000 feet of climbing each stage. At the start of the first stage, people were looking at me like I showed up to the wrong event, but after I finished 5th they congratulated me on a well-fought effort. At the second stage when I took first some riders started to mumble it wasn't fair all bikes were in one category, for context no bent in the past had ever finished anywhere but near last in prior years. After finishing first in the final stage and winning the overall by a mere 8 mins some riders were downright upset and the following week the rule book was changed and I was reclassified into my own division. This actually enraged about 95% of the cycling body because contrary to recumbent riders beliefs, not everyone hates recumbents. Another week later the event director had to issue a retraction and an apology due to all the hate mail he was getting.
cruzbike.com/blogs/blog/race-report-jason-perez-s-2016-california-triple-crown-victory
A fast and skilled rider will be fast on anything they ride, you just need to find a fast enough rider who couldn't give two shits about what other people think to see what a recumbent can truly do.
I like that photo I saw of you Jason sandwiched between Christoph Strasser and Marco Baloh on the podium.
@@jameschristiansson3137 :lol just a couple average world champion record holders alongside some kid who doesn't follow a training plan and just rides for the thrill of going down hill fast. If only I could get either of those two to ride my bike and see if they could eclipse what I've done on it. I did get Marko to ride with me on a 200 miler once and he said it was one of the hardest days of just constant effort, such good guys at heart.
You need to eat more healthy donuts is all.
Hear, hear. I'd love to see the presenters try out several different styles of recumbent, for more than just a familiarization ride like the rider in the previous video did. They might still prefer their road bikes after getting to know recumbents, but at least they'd be giving opinions from experience rather than speculation.
Some cyclists think that upright vs. recumbent is an either/or situation, when that doesn't have to be the case. I had both a road bike and a recumbent trike for 5 or 6 years, and put about equal mileage on each one.
It takes at least a few days to really get acclimated to a recumbent. Rojo is one of the top recumbent riders, and riding one of the best performing recumbents (Cruzbike V20). It would be great if you would have him do a recumbent segment for your show. He would be showing the upper limits of what is possible! :)
Just crossed the Alps on my AZUB MAX Recumbent - including Passo dello Stelvio and San Gottardo of course. So I can tell you: climbing is not a problem at all.
There are different types of recumbents for different types of riding. There is also type of recumbent bike which is very good at climbing. Google: Cruzbike Vendetta.
Set them straight Saukki!
As a senior, I prefer the Scorpion FS recumbent TRIKE.
My John Morciglio M1 and I climb very well also.
Is it really? This thread on the Cruzbike forum suggests the opposite. That FWD bents are only good for shallow climbs. forum.cruzbike.com/threads/climbing.4099/
Conversely, once I got the hang of my Varna, I couldn't understand why people said bents are bad for climbing.
Saukki to save the day!
Ooohh. They're faster? That's why I keep getting smoked by that old guy in a recumbent. Yep, that's definitely why, and definitely not because I'm just slow.
This is pretty stupid. Recumbents have been around for decades, they come in multiple varieties and have a lot of benefits as well as downsides, but having two people who've never ridden them talk about them is a complete waste of time. They might as well be talking about moonrovers.
I’ve got 20,000 miles on a Bacchetta CA2 and I’ve hit the asphalt twice. Once when I took a 90 degree turn too fast on a wet street and once when my tire went into a rut. My longest days have been in the 240-250 mile range and I’ve done several 1200 km brevets. I don’t do the long rides any longer but, ytd, I’m averaging 18 mph/29 Kph....not bad for 61 years old. I love mine!
That was embarrassing to watch. Go and ride a recumbent and then talk about it! They are amazing things and have changed lives.
@@defstuv8682 I cannot recall hearing of any recumbent riders being "crushed by a car" in UK, whereas I've heard of many conventional cyclists who HAVE been! Where DO you get your biased ideas from, or are you just another anti-recumbent troll?
@@defstuv8682 Have you just admitted you're a careless driver and don't pay attention to VERY visible things on the road?
@@petervick4775 It's a shame people cling onto the misinformation that has been shared about Recumbents. I always feel safer on the road with a recumbent than with my upright bike.
@@Heb182xx Me too.
This was a bit disappointing after the great video showing different recumbents being ridden. There were quite a few ill informed comments here. I ride a Lightning P-38 recumbent, it climbs quite well and has passed quite a few uprights on climbs. It is wrong to think because you cannot be out of the saddle you can't climb well. Moreover if you are going to discuss recumbents you need to distinguish between bikes and trikes. I've ridden both and unless a trike is wrapped up into being a velomobile the bikes are faster, unless it's downhill and fast downhill is a small term win, ask all the fat guys on uprights that you pass on the next hill. Are they harder to balance than an upright, yes they are, but when I have to ride in built up traffic I ride my upright. But when I want to ride fast or do a 150-200 km fast weekend ride the recumbent wins every time. It's also hard to just talk about recumbent bikes as a group because they are so diverse. My Lightning P-38 is quite different from the Raptobike in the GCN video. Similarly both the recumbent bikes mentioned are different in layout to a Cruzbike or an M5 low-racer. Unlike the upright world where you only have tri bikes, road bikes and maybe niche bikes like Moulton bikes as the options for road bikes; road going recumbents have so much variety that discussing the different positives and negatives is wholly dependent on the style of recumbent you choose.
I think GCN could make some really cool videos looking at some different recumbent styles such as SWB, lowracer, FWD etc up against road bikes. Even throw in a UK built Moulton to show uprights aren't all basically the same with slightly different shaped carbon fibre frames, and different group-sets.
Generally love your work GCN - but this recumbent discussion was disappointing.
Yes. They just nibbled at the edge of the topic and looked rather pathetic to those in the know.
Recumbent bikes and TRIKES are the future.
For seniors with balance issues, the HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS is the ticket or the Scorpion PLUS with its higher seat profile.
Being from England, these guys should investibate ICE trikes.
And then there is the impressive TRIOT trikes.
And we haven't even discussed the Greenspeed line or the Catrike line.
Yes , absolutely , more recumbent coverage . Please test some of the fastest velomobiles (faired aero trikes) like the Intercitybikes DF and Alpha 7 or the Milan SL
John, you’re a smart guy. Is it reasonable to compare ease of balance between a sort of machine you’ve spent hundreds of hours riding vs a machine you’ve never ridden? Probably not
To be fair, on a bike you head is more central to your centre of gravity compared to a recumbent. Imagine sitting on a office wheel chair with your feet up, vs lying across one
"If you think recumbents should be more popular....." just buy one and ride it, for ****s sake!
Gentleman in the black T-shirt should try riding recumbent before talking. In fact we would like to see an episode of gcn where he does just that, wouldn't we?
He has a name; that's Jon.
So many comments already on the recumbent bit and I'm in with most of them. I ride a Raptobike similar to that in the previous video and it's amazing. Fast and comfortable but they do require learning to ride as it's different, just like when you first started riding nothing more. Also the muscles are different so don't expect immediate improvements before you muscles, and confidence, adjust.
There are disadvantages: it's longer and is more suited to racing than sharp corners but many people commute on one. And you stand out like an elephant in a lama field! So you get loads space and respect.
Also owning a trike I can assure than cornering is not difficult or that easy to roll if you remember to lean, which you don't really worry about on two wheels. In the wet and slippery conditions often found in the uk the cornering is so much safer, even on sheet ice (which I thought was just a rear flat before I realized!).
As ever with such different machines do ride one before "assuming". After my first century I returned home with a slightly sore right arm (from changing gear), nothing else; i could have continued for hours more and I'm a virtual novice.
The best advice is choose what is best for you and what you need the cycle for. Sadly there is still a lot of misunderstandings with recumbent cycling that puts people off. Along with the price (and I do agree with GCN comments on that). Many events ban them as well, or remove them from leaderboards, also damaging reputations.
I can only thank GCN for bringing recumbent cycling into view of the mainstream, with a sensible approach, but would love more from a practical and informed viewpoint from recumbent riders.
+1 for "Elephant in a Llama field" I used to notice the same space afforded me when I rode a tandem, and when I pull the kiddies trailer.
Can GCN visit Ice trikes? Their VTX is the fastest unfaired trike - in the world!
My gs aero is faster
All this talk of recumbents and no mention of Pedal Prix? I think you should send Ollie to Australia to race Pedal Prix with the juniors.
There are a couple of prix in this whole video.
Whats up GCN . Been watching and enjoying all your vids from all departments for awhile now simply because I love all forms of human powered vehicles including Recumbents . Your health doesn't know the difference . I have cut my teeth on road bikes from since I could pedal , wish I still had some of those now classic bikes that once sat under me for many a mile . But I am old now and my ass cant take it anymore , damage already done before better saddles arrived . Now that my health has taken center stage it was time to remount so I thought I would give recumbents a try and it was the best decision I could make , in a sea of bad decisions in my life although I bought two Trikes so not sure if any lessons learned . I can pedal for miles without discomfort , still get a work out , pass most road cyclist with there ultra light bikes and has all the same components these two wheel bikes have . So where is the problem , depending where you live in this world the problem is you in some cases . Most elite cyclist as they call themselves thumb there nose up at recumbents , I have met them and there not always nice . Some are in this comment section . Not every cyclist hates recumbents I have met them too and more curious then anything but support the fact we are just out to have fun , share the road , compete too if that's your fancy but we are here and the numbers are growing so what does that tell you . Thanks so much GCN for blowing a kiss of sorts on the recumbent world , and two vids now at that ..Sorry for the novel but you hit a nerve . lol
I think recumbent cyclists are generally more laid-back.
You don't go over the bars on a recumbent.
...well, unless it's an under seat steering one (;
Morpheox , unless you drop your front end into a ditch and catapult out as I did in 2018 , something to do with taking a corner tooooo fast.
Oh I did! Braking so hard the front wheel stalled... despite the low center of gravity.
Maybe I'm just to used to riding a lowracer? (:
I for one, would love to see more GCN presenters on recumbents!
It's very obvious they haven't rode a recumbent. Tsk tsk
You mean because they straight out said it?
Save recumbent commentary for frequent riders of them not your second hand opinions.
You really should have some recumbent experts on to address some of your questions. Your attempt was totally off base in a lot of cases. And all recumbents are not "low to the ground." incorporate some high racer recumbent experts like John Schlitter (Bacchetta), Jim and Maria Parker (Cruzbike), and others to get some real understanding of recumbent technology.
I absolutely second that. Add in Thom Ollinger and John Morciglio to the discussion, and you will finally have a complete and accurate understanding of recumbents.
I think inviting BHPC and M5 guys from Holland solves that, USA is too far. Bram Moens, Mike Burrows and Chris parker should be doable
Great show and great influence Jon and Ollie. With great power comes great responsibility. So why why why offer up “I’ve never ridden a recumbent but here’s the disadvantages. “ I ride high end diamond frames and recumbents. Some of your listed disadvantages of recumbents were wrong and do a disservice to yourselves. Please the credibility of my favourite presenters is at stake. Reading all the comments below a common theme establishes between those who have ridden and those who have not ridden a recumbent. It’s all cycling. For the record I prefer a lightweight diamond frame in the mountains for its 6.8 kg of goodness. On any other measure of safety / speed / efficiency/fun /heads up scenic view /comfort /accessibility /versatility /performance /cargo carrying /uniqueness /weather protection/avoiding wedding tackle damage the recumbent formats eats the diamond frame whilst laying down on the job . Please go get a fun education before commenting further. I dare you from the DARK SIDE...... smile jd
I would like to see some top level cyclists in a recumbent (velomobile) race
The speeds would be insane
Maybe do it on F1 tracks at first
steele von hoff use to race them in australia
he was very quick
Two fastest finishers at Paris-Brest-Paris in 2007 were velomobiles!
Response to the alleged disadvantages:
- stability of trikes around corners
:
You can lean to balance of this issue, very common
You can continue pedalling while cornering, which you cannot do in a road bike!
- racing tricycles, it does work on motor tricycles (You already answered your arguments yourself, recumbent trikes are as low and lighter than a motor tricycles,
- tipping, hardly an issue, with nearly 80% of tadpole trikes, depends on the model
- falling of bents, easier to fall, longer distance, etc: actually it is way more likely to fall of a road bike,
- Looks clumsy
: Maybe
- cost
: Yes, this is the only correct disadvanate,
- going up hill: it is actually easier,
Using a recumbent trike, is the easiet way to ride uphills, you never need to balance, you never need to stand out and carry or pull your ride bike up a tough hill. you can stop, rest, then continue pedalling, for lowracers, just needs practice,
- You cannot prop yourself out of the chain: again, this is a chair, not a saddle that hurts you!
- cannot be seen, must use poles:
, actually: most use poles to stop the bullying that they cannot be seen, you can just ride as any other vehicle, controlling your lane, you are seen without an issue, and without a pole!
- eye line: they are the most visible in the road.
- very hot in velomobiles?: you are talking about streamliners, meant for speed records, velomobiles are actually much better reflecting sun, and do have air ducts, and you do not need the head cover,
- fragile: depends on what you mean, they do have a carbon shell, like many cars,
- geting in and out
: easy in velomobiles, hard on streamliners, please double check the difference.
Great episode overall, and to create a discussion.
I was driven into whilst on my road bike so much for being seen! I sustained serious and disabling injuries. Although I take your point about recumbents being low and less visible. However, I now ride an ICE VTX Plus race recumbent and train on a Cycle Circuit. I have applied for the Invictus Games selection. Have you seen how wound and injured Service personnel and Veterans race recumbents? Check out previous Invictus Games series or ask to come to our training sessions this year. Or by the way I use semi-compact cycle gearing. My dealer has ridden his 2 wheeled recumbent in Edinburgh for years.
I think maybe there is an amount of explainable bias in the appraisal of recumbent bikes. They both admit they haven't ridden one. They need an experienced recumbent rider, and a rider with a lot of experience on both kinds. Then, more GCN presenters should ride both, and maybe try to tackle a GCN event on one. Then they could be way more objective. Just my two cents. I've read it is a whole different experience.
And yes, I support the idea of putting Ollie on a recumbent.
Great point, I've been riding recumbents for years and the die hard, live for biking people who have strong opinions about them yet have NEVER tried one always surprise me. Give them a try and THEN tell us what you think.
Only if they ride with a power meter. I love the GCN guys, but they're not trained to ride bents, so they'll generate a fair bit less power than they "should" - particularly when going up hills unless they're already spinners. Like, they'll want to do stuff like gear their bikes like road bikes instead of having a wider gear range, stuff like that.
What they need is an experienced recumbent racer! But that's a big ask.
They should have invited me, I would have loved to go ride some mountains with them.
Someone gave me a recumbent to race a few years back because they knew I was a very fast mtber and loved to troll roadies. Showed up to race in a 600 mile stage race split up into three 200 mile mountain stages with between 16,000 to 20,000 feet of climbing each stage. The first stage at the start people were looking at me like I showed up to the wrong event and after I finished 5th they congratulated me on a well fought effort. At the second stage when I took first some riders started to mumble it wasn't fair all bikes were in one category, for context no bent in the past had ever finished anywhere but near last in prior years. After finishing first in the final stage and winning the overall by a mere 8 mins some riders were downright upset and the following week the rule book was changed and I was reclassified into my own division. This actually enraged about 95% of the cycling body and the event director had to issue a retraction and an apology due to all the hate mail he was getting.
A fast and skilled rider will be fast on anything they ride, you just need to find a fast enough rider who couldn't give two shits about what other people think about them to see what a recumbent can truly do. Sadly to date I've never heard of another rider who fits that criteria and is willing to go try something absurd.
@@rojoracing53 I support this.
Yep it’s usual that most recumbent riders are older and perhaps wiser. Lol. A light weight recumbent two wheeler is 3 to 4 kg heavier. So tougher on the big hills. On all other terrain no contest. Faster safer heads up feet first more comfortable. UCI design rules are cruel to all cyclists. Rojo you’re 100% right.
Mid-racers and high racer recumbents with 700c/26in tires are usually at eye level with saloon car drivers. They are quite visible. Generally short chain FWD recumbents climb better but can be limited by traction on gradients steeper than 12-15%.
I agree, you cannot bunny hop on them, but when properly engineered they can be more stable than the upright bicycle at high speeds. They are alot of fun to ride!
Kindly invite some seasoned recumbent riders for more indepth opinions and tips.
See #cruzbike @Marco Ruga
Hell yeah we should - a bike for everyone - long, short, tall, low-to-the-ground, 2 wheels, 3 wheels, comfy seats - anything you want.
Also screw UCI.
Also you are dead wrong about center of gravity - for a bike - the higher the more stable.
Also you are wrong about standing up on the pedals - you can brace against the seat.
Also air intakes in faired ones aren't a problem - NACA duct is a solution just for that - low drag.
And only the first 7.5 minutes are worth the watch.
I think the true advantage of standing in the pedals is not really that you can put down that much more power, more the fact that you shift over to another muscle group that is fresh and ready for action. Whereas we on recumbents are sorta stuck working the same muscles both for the flat and on climbs.
@@coolfrost6 you can shift muscles to some extent, but clearly less than on a DF.
@@Jimboblay74 and with everything weight is the killer, if I race strip my challenge fujin i can get it down to 16kg. If you are willing to forgo rear suspension you can get some models that are about 9-10kg. But the rear suspension is hard to go without IMHO.
@@coolfrost6 Understand perfectly, although my Carbent does well enough with a rear 28 mm tire to take the edge off the bumps. My bike is ~10 kg before I start loading up the seat bag...
@@Jimboblay74 yea i will admit that the swoopy doopy tube on my fujin is perhaps not as efficient use of the material as a straight tube. But I love the look and the low ride height.
3 wheels got their fun
2 wheels got their fun
1 wheel got their fun
Pick your fun😁
We are a group of riders in our 60s, 70s and 80s. One of our group has had serious health issues and is only able to still ride because he has a recumbent electric trike.
Yes! Recumbent TRIKES are the future. Especially for seniors with strength and balance issues. The HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS is the best recumbent trike out there. For seniors, the higher seat of the Scorpion PLUS is the bomb. Check out the TRIOT trikes too. For obese individuals, the Greenspeed Magnum and Magnum XL are the solution. The XL holds a rider up to 450 lbs.
I am not a senior, but I absolutely love my HP Scorpions fs 20! This recumbent trike is so comfortable and fun to ride! I've been cycling a lot more now! And uphill might be slower, but I've made it up hills cycling that I absolutely would have had to walk on my upright.
check out www.cruzbike.com FRONT WHEEL DRIVE recumbent with full size wheels. No hand numbness, great visibility since you are sitting up, especially with mirrors on both sided of the handle bars. Does take some getting used to after riding a traditional bike for decades. Balance is clearly different and you need to use arms to counteract wheel steer when pedaling. Up hill pretty quick since in addition to the legs, one presses against the saddle and uses the arms to apply more force.
Read Mike Burrows book, all questions answered regarding recumbents. KUTGW.
Have either of you ridden a recumbent ?
Definite no.
Really, get some recumbent experts to help you answer the questions. That way your misconceptions can be addressed properly.
"Not being able to climb on recumbents" is a myth. You will want to adjust your gearing, bu otherwise you'll be fine. Note that recumbent bicycles are frequently a bit heavier (though certainly not all are anymore) than otherwise comparable road bikes, and the myth of not climbing is likely due to weight. Of course in combination with riders that may be a bit older and have less power. The large advantage that recumbents have on the flat is gone, so it certainly feels like recumbent bikes are less efficient at climbing.
Some argue that the position on the bike allows for easier breathing, and that makes climbing on a recumbent actually easier.
Agree with you, the reason I feel I'm slower on hills is that I don't ride my recumbent enough to build the different leg muscles needed. If I learnt to spin faster I could to some extent overcome this problem quite quickly.
I’d love to see all of the presenters race each other on recumbents 👏
Ollie I would love to see you knowledgeable on all things recumbent. It’s very diverse like the diamond frame is from mtb to fatbikes to cruisers to racers to gravel and specialty bikes. The recumbent scene has an equivalent. Ollie go set yourself free and see how recumbents allow people with disabilities through to pro level athletes to share the same smile. Lesson 1. It’s called a recumbent grin. There is even a recumbent company who guarantee you will be faster on their unfaired bike or your money back. Cruzbike Vendetta. No I don’t work in the cycling industry but I own five diamond frames and five recumbents. 😉
Id like to see Jon build a recumbent.
:-) ua-cam.com/video/npPuF2h5beM/v-deo.html
Had a 'bent. Enjoyed it. But every bike I've ever had made me smile.
Jon is absolutely correct about it being 'further to fall' and making it easier to balance. Imagine balancing a rod upright on your hand, with a weight on one end. You can do this with any non-uniform rod, like a golf club. It's much easier to balance when the weight is at the far end, rather than close to your hand. This is actually due to the rotational inertia of the rod, and its response to the small corrections that your hand makes to keep it upright. It's not an easy concept to grasp mathematically, but give it a try.
Exactly. Ollie, read it and weep! 😉
Couple items related to recumbents
I own one 2 wheeled and a tadpole trike.
1. The speed not really true they are faster at least not my experience. Different muscles are used and it takes a lot of time to be faster then on a regular bike.
2. Uphill is not so bad especially with underseat steering.
3. It takes a few hundred km to be at home on a 2 wheeled recumbent and at the beginning at least a mirror is a must for driving on regular public paths and roads.
4. It is proper fun😁 still after many years and thousands of km
I'd say a traffic-side mirror is absolutely compulsory. There's no safe way to turn your head far enough when laying back... the best I can do is about 135 degrees which sees the blind spot but not all the way behind me. Some like helmet mirrors but I don't. A 50mm bar-end mirror for a motorbike works perfectly for me.
50 km/h at 200 watts?
Discussion is over!
Love to see someone take one of those to a race.
I wish I could afford some pedal-based power meters. I'd fit them in turn to my road bike and my recumbent and then get some real actual numbers for power requirements and resultant speeds.
@@criggie maybe you want to check out a video by Saukki for that. It is called
How fast a Velomobile is compared to upright Road Bike
I have to correct you three points: riding most modern recumbents puts you at eye-level with drivers of normal saloon cars, and their novelty value normally makes them way more noticed on the road than normal bikes. Yes, fixed bottom bracket recumbents climb slower than diamond frame bikes, but you seem to have wilfully ignored the dynamic bottom bracket front wheel drive recumbents most notably manufactured by Cruzbike. I've been touring on a diamond frame for over 20 years and while i admit my first two 'bents climbed more slowly than the DF, my Cruzbike S40 climbs as well, if not better than my diamond frame. You can use your upper body much more effectively than on a DF, can lean forward off the seat to add power and give your back a rest, and you can lift your arse up periodically to relieve pressure. But you can also forget about a NNS, sit-bone pain, neck or shoulder pane and all the rest on a properly set up recumbent. ("Recumbutt" can be a problem for some riders). You are right to point out that they are more expensive, but that is a simple function of volume of production, and that they are slightly less stable at low speed - lower CoG makes them less stable - think of balancing a pool cue on your finger vs. a baseball bat. Longer items with higher CoG are easier. You also fail to point out that if you hit something head on, it's your feet that take the brunt and not your head, making head injury in a crash way less likely. I enjoy your videos, but you clearly had decided that bents had more dis~ than ad~vantages before you started and that is frustrating from somebody who has extensive experience of both formats. Not withstanding the different climbing style required, ask yourself why they were banned in 1934 by the UCI if their advantages didn't outweigh their disadvantages overall.
Would love to see you lads talk more about velomobiles. Maybe a speed test vs upright bikes on a course including a hill or two? Would also love to see how velomobiles handle in the city.
I posted almost the same comment on the other vidle. Recumbents are great, just as racing bikes, mountain bikes, track bikes and so on. Each have their specific niche and you really would be a happier person if you own one (at least) of each. I know.
Next year please come out to Battle Mountain. It’s this town in Nevada where people gather to race bikes at their maximum speeds (nearly 90 miles per hour!) under human power : edition.cnn.com/2018/11/17/health/fastest-human-powered-bike-fit-nation/index.html
Also you mention a lot of downsides on recumbents, which are mainly myths. Go out and ride one and you be convinced that most of the so called downsides are really not there. On the pricing a fast race recumbent in carbon with nice wheels di2 will cost quite a bit, but the bike that was ridden in the film (RaptoBike) starts at 1595 euro. Mine looks like this : static.ligfiets.net/uploads/13/39/9/lr700c-1-small.jpeg
500+ Comments already! GCN finally dared to open the Pandora's Box of 'bent riders
Yep. Triggered
@@JonCannings Why not open another Pandora box of Moulton bikes?
@@taufikabidin412 I like Moulton too
Why Aren’t All of Us…
That is a good question and I like your site!
I can correct a few misconceptions about recumbents, but you REALLY need to ride one, or 10+ as there are more recumbent styles and ideas than you can shake a stick at! What happens on lots of blogs when people haven’t tried things themselves is misperceptions are repeated as truths obscuring real disadvantages and advantages of each type of bike and riding position.
Context: I started building my first recumbent in ’81 from Easy Racer plans. I mostly ride commuting to work, winter and summer, but have toured with conventional bike, (first tour, in 1964, rode from Montreal to PEI. Later tours in France and England on a conventional bike.) I also have ridden Boston-Montreal-Boston, and Paris-Brest-Paris on a conventional bike.
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Little things I’d like to say:
The position of recumbent my look odd to start. But think of sports car, airplane, F1 and it looks less so. It really isn’t that awkward usually.
As to shifting your weight around, you can easily lift your butt off the seat. Just push with legs and back and lift up. The seat is much easier on you than a regular bike seat, no pressure on the perineum and increase in area supported, including often the back, takes the pressure off any one area. Better for sexual health. If the position is not too extreme the neck suffers less too. Nevertheless, you can get aches from pressure on muscles that are working.
Stability is related to height of center of gravity above the ground or tire patch. Counter intuitively the higher the CG, the longer the period of oscillation, and the more time you have to react and correct disturbances. Try balancing a pencil on it’s tip on your hand (low CG, fast pendulum) vs an inverted broom handle. It is easier to steer your hand around under the broom to keep it up.
A “Penny Farthing” ordinary, bike will be super stable, until you stop that wheel on a bump and take a header. The “safety bike”, what we all ride, was developed to be safer from “headers”. A recumbent is far safer here. (consider a Luge sled vs a Skeleton and running into a wall, which would you be happier to be coasting on.) A conventional bike starts to look more like a Skeleton than a Luge…
While the stability is directly related to height of CG, the ability to maneuver quick S- bends is inversely related to CG height! So a long wheelbase recumbent bike with a low cg is far more maneuverable than a carbon race bike in a s- bend except at very slow speeds where wheelbase length comes into play.
But you have to try these things yourself AND there is an element of learning for everything. Remember when you first started to learn to ride a bike. It will take a little time to learn each of those riding positions and geometry.
The reduction in frontal area is another plus of many recumbents. This often helps to make up for the poorer ergonomics of power output.
Hill climbing is mostly a matter of power to weight ratios. With reduced power, and often a longer wheelbase, bigger seat, less developed frames of heavier materials a recumbent is usually slower climbing.
One can think of a conventional bike as being specialized for hill climbing.
The dropped bars are the compromise to try and reduce frontal area. Notice that Triathlon bikes carry this just far enough to be illegal for mass start races.
As far as answering why there are not more recumbents…
First I think “outlawing” recumbent bikes in 1934 is the largest factor. Francis Faure was an excellent rider but with a better machine for speed. Other riders didn’t like to get beaten and the strange new bike was banned for competition. (The outlawing of new technology is common if it is too big a step) After this all competition bikes were of the diamond frame pattern with limits on how far in front of the seat the bottom bracket could be.
People want to ride what they see their hero’s are riding. Development of other types slows down. Soon all you see are “safety” bikes.
Then things become a matter of style and convention.
In the 70’s with gas crises there was a bicycle resurgence and Human Powered Vehicle competitions opened up new recumbent dreamers and builders. However there were not and still aren’t all that many built. With fewer numbers built recumbents are more expensive.
Those recumbents with a long wheelbase and a bigger seat have to be heavier, (or more expensive or both). This hurts on hills, giving recumbents a bad reputation.
The standard bike is very refined. It IS hard to beat! Except where lower air drag can be utilized. Currently all the speed records where a recumbent is allowed, are held by recumbents.
These are my ideas but won’t say they are the real why…I think you should try a few bikes and tricks to see what you think.
Recumbent content! Yes pleeeease! The Milan from Germany is the fastest one and is on the verge of mass production. It absolutely deserves Ollie's attention.
These guys both say "oh I'd love to try one" (related to recumbents of many different kinds) and then proceed to tell us all the "disadvantages" of them, without knowing or having ever tried them (especially the guy with the glasses on the left). Soreness is NOT an issue with most riders. Hill climbing and balance are not really big issues or are non issues once a rider acclimates to them. and rollovers on trikes around corners... do happen, but do not require fancy, heavy suspensions as they say - just some knowledge and skill. Trike riders know how to take corners by leaning into turns (sit forward out of the seat and lean) and use of brakes (more on inside wheel of the turn) to keep a smooth turn with all wheels down on the ground. Maybe they should have actually had someone who knows and rides recumbents around for this. hmmm.
Yeah. I think it would have been a totally different discussion if Hank had been hosting the show this week.
ua-cam.com/video/1lxfaw3OZ2w/v-deo.html
Less maneuverable and worse on steep climbs....uh that's my road bike compared to my mountain bike.
Jon is absolutely right that recumbents are a feat of engineeering, which is a lot of the reason why the American Society of Mechanical Engineers hosts a Human Powered Vehicle competition which features a majority of recumbents that have been designed, analyzed, and manufactured from scratch by mechanical engineering students around the world. The competition is what ultimately go me interested in cycling. Definitely something I think everyone from the channel would enjoy checking out!
I think that this episode is great. As a Velomobile rider (Velonaut) I would like to set a couple of misconceptions straight!!! Velomobiles are NOT FRAGILE!!! It stuns me to realize that that you guys would even think this... Velomobiles have been around for more than 30 years and we only have 1 death in one in all of that time.... just to prove the point we document our crashes in these bikes type in “Velomobile Crashes” on the internet... you will see the bike that got t-boned by a truck doing 50 miles per hour and the Velonaut walked away... you will also see videos by John Williams in London that got hit by an Automobile and walked away with bumps and scratches... many others detail incidents of Velonaut walking away from almost every single kind of accident imaginable with only bumps or scratches.... here is a online post detailing accidents... www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/archive/index.php?t-110548.html
Would love too see a segment on the high speed recumbents like the ICE VTX, the Catrike 700, so on. Also the very cool stuff made by FLEVOBIKE and Velomobiel.nl Go!!
The Knights that say Ni approve of GCN
You may pass
Come on, boys! That bike on the RR tracks was super nice. Let's assume the owner had "watchouts" a kilometer up on both ends of the RR for safety!
"Not Birmingham, Alabama. The real one !", LMAO
"I have never ridden a recumbent" - However here are lots of disadvantages which are utterly false which I have imagined. Talk to the guys who actually ride them before making things up.
3.23 "Unless you have a two wheel one they are not really that stable" - You are thinking of the upright three wheelers which are like a regular bicycle with an extra wheel. Recumbent trikes are inherently completely stable, allow you to lean into turns, give you three contact patches rather than two, when they start to slide they don't crash, you just understeer or oversteer. There is no need for extra suspension for even a relatively sedate and high seated trike to completely out corner and out manoeuvre a road bike down hill. Even if you do lift a wheel is it controllable.
4.30 "It's a clumsy contraption-You can leave that bit in" - Were you just trying to be provocative and make people angry? Balancing on a two wheel recumbent is different from an upright bicycle but it is not harder. Some recumbents are easier to ride than others just like some bikes are easier to ride than others.
4.45 "Recumbents are more expensive than a road bike" - Recumbents, like road bikes are available at a very wide range of prices. The top end road bikes are a lot more expensive than the top end recumbent bikes though. The most expensive recumbent without a motor I could find is the Quattrovelo, a four wheel velomobile which starts at €8000, a Pinarello Dogma F12 is upwards of €12000. Most high end racing unfaired recumbents come in around 4-6k.
5.06 "Another disadvantage has to be going up hill on them" - The winner of the hill climb event at the recent world HPV racing championships beat the Strava overall KOM on that 5km 5% climb by a significant margin, an untrained rider on a slow recumbent won't keep up with a fast road biker but on an even footing recumbents climb just as well as other bikes. Surges of power come from pushing against the seat but where recumbents shine is longer FTP type efforts.
5.20 "do you get really bad saddle sores since you can't relieve yourself?" - Your weight is spread over a wide area, there is no need to relieve yourself as you aren't concentrating your body weight on any one point. Touring riders sometimes choose to sleep in their trike seats. You would be hard pushed to find a touring upright rider who would choose to do that.
5.40 "Another disadvantage is you can feel quite vulnerable" - This is a worry, you do feel vulnerable at first, until you have been riding for a while and you realise you are getting a wider berth from every car passing you, more respect from cars and generally more of a relaxed and safe feeling on the road. Bad car drivers when they see a road rider think "oh god another bloody cyclist who thinks they own the road" and try to squeeze past as quick as they can, even if it is not safe to do so, the same drivers when they see a recumbent think "what is that weird thing" and give you a wide margin and wait until it is safe to pass. A flag helps you to not have people yell "you should get a flag" that's the only real difference it makes though. Anyone who can't see a recumbent on the road can't see an upright bike, or a fridge that has fallen off the back of a lorry for that matter. The lines on the road are a few mm high at most and nobody worries about them being too low to be seen. "Sorry I was driving on the wrong side of the road officer, the lines down the middle of the road were too low and I had no idea where I was."
6.30 "You get very very hot in velomobiles" - Facts, no denying that. Fan systems and vents only do so much.
6.40 "they are pretty fragile too" - They are made from carbon fibre, fibreglass or moulded plastic. They are at least as tough as your bike frame. A crash will damage them just like a crash will damage any bike.
6.49 "They are difficult to get in and out of in a hurry." That is true too.
You managed to be correct on two out of your nine disadvantages. Nobody denies there are disadvantages to recumbents but coming out with a big list of them based on nothing but stereotype and speculation is at best misleading and at worst narrow minded and malicious. Recumbents are not going to replace road bikes any time soon, you guys don't need to be defensive. Take a leaf out of James's book and open your mind to different possibilities.
My recumbent cost £1100 and absolutely flies. Velomotion scopa frame set £500 plus basic modern groupset and 26" mavic crossride wheels and some carbon forks from ali express
I am waiting for a "Walmart" bike to be in the Bike Vault with some high dollar sports car (McLaren or Koenigsegg for example) in the background, Jon and Ollie get so distracted. ....it will be the first Super Nice ever for such a decrepit bike...lol
Do you even need a bike in picture anymore.
Great show, guys, happy you finally pay some attention to recumbents. I have done some competition on 2-wheeled-unfaired recumbents, got the rainbow jersey (yes, we have that too) and there's a few things I'd like to add or correct: - unfaired recumbents are not more aerodynamic than a top-end TT bike. (and they are definitely not more expensive than the 15K $ trek madone and specialized venge you guys have), The reason why you can go faster for longer is because you can push against your seat, in a more efficient position. On a normal bike you can only push your own weight down, plus whatever you can pull on your handlebars and hamstrings, but on a recumbent you can push as much as you would on the squat machine in the fitness, you got to have the muscles of course...With fairing you've got all the extra aero-advantages, and you can do 50km/h at only 200W easily-- At decent speed they corner as well as a race bike, if not better, because the point of gravity is lower and the wheelbase is longer, and your pedals will never hit the ground -- You can climb, again: if you have the power in the legs, except when it gets so steep that you would have to get out of the seat on a normal bike, then you're doomed. --You are vulnerable, but, as on a race bike, you should never assume you are seen. Advantage: we have been using disc brakes for a long time, and because you cannot flip over your handlebars, you can stop from 30km/h to zero in 1 bikelength! (I know: a recumbent is longer, but still :-). Best thing about a recumbent: getting in the seat is like getting in a formula 1 car. Why are they not more popular? Wel cyclists are not known for their innovativeness (referring to the disc brakes again), but also the infrastructure of a city or country plays a decisive part in this. No wonder they are popular in the Netherlands.
One of the big reasons people ride recumbents is the increased comfort. Things like wrist pain, neck pain and worrying about the "sensitive" areas go away. And that's a big win if you can't ride a normal bike because of any of those. And once you've learned to balance on one it does become 2nd nature. Well worth a look. You are also allowed to ride both diamond frames and recumbents; it's not a binary choice!
I have built myself a recumbent and i am faster uphill than my regular carbon road bike.
No way on my extended 8-20% climbs
It's the rider that climbs-bikes descend. Because you can lock your back into the seat, you can put your entire leg strength into the pedals.
Recumbents only have a reputation for climbing poorly because of the old retirees that have an FTP of 50 watts.
@@GunganWorks no way you coukdvride some climbs near ne as some hit 25%. you'd need a 22-51.
It takes a strong rider, but 25% is doable.
Trikes are the ultimate climbers on steep hills, because they do not need to be balanced. If they had the traction and proper gearing, they could be ridden up a vertical wall!
Hey, do realist, 20 % climbs are very rare but on the most common up to 6 % i am faster on my recumbent who is 5 kilos heavier because of aérodynamic ( starting from 25 km/h ) and better power output due to the seat.
My word, the Jollie combo reading out my comment from last week?!?! Blessed by the TechShow Gods. Ollie I am definitely looking forward to an avalanche of superb accents at Eurobike!
🤣
Glad to see I am not the only cyclist who doesn't drink beer.
My wife rides a 3 wheel recumbent, a Catrike 700. She is 60 years old and has a fused neck and lower back with nerve damage that affects her balance and coordination. She loads herself on her Catrike and becomes whole again and she can FLY on that thing! Amazing.
I couldn't stop laughing at that Helicopter review!!!! More of those please!
A big-wheel recumbent, a higher model than the one Hank was riding in hte video is actually easier to control. The time you have to correct you fall (which is how you control balance in any bike) is longer (in general) with higher bikes. That said, with experience (500 km or so), you will be at ease with either general layout.
When I was learning to ride (those first 10 minutes) the thing I had to un-learn was butt-steering. On a road bike you can steer and balance pretty well with minor shifts of your body weight. On a bent you can't get off the seat, so the only significant body mass to move around is your head, so theres a lot more hand-based steering going on to balance. Upshot of that is there's a minimum speed of 4-6 km/h on a 2 wheel recumbent, which can be a bit much for the newbie at first.
@@criggie In my experience higher bikes are easier to learn on, the low-racers are generally quite nervous. And for tight steering I will sit more upright in my seat for the finer balance, but the options for that depend a little on the type of steerer you have.
some 'bent comments based on ~20 years of riding them.
Can't get out of the seat for a sprint/climb... but you can push *against* it for more power, and you can't do that on an upwrong. They are generally slower up hills as heavier, if all else is equal (more frame and a heavier seat) but there again they're quicker down the other side, and without worrying about going over the bars if you hit the brakes, plus the lower centre of mass, technical descents are potentially a lot quicker, and that includes on trikes: you just need to learn to lean in to the bends for balance rather than steering.
Seat-sore? Never had it, do lorry drivers get sore being in a comfy chair all day? Comfort is much better on a 'bent, a lot of it a nice supportive chair but also from no weight on the arms/wrists and no need to look up to see where I'm going while aero.
Visibility is a red herring. Yes, they're lower, but are you immediately doomed on a road bike where the hedges are a bit higher of you're behind a van rather than a car? As we all know, the problem with not being seen is people not looking, and if they do look then something different gets extra respect (aka the "WTF? Factor"). Fed up of close passes? Far, far less common on a 'bent. The flag thing seems to be an affectation, a bit like one "needs" hi-viz to be seen... only you don't.
Big downside for competitive riders is your chances of a local chain gang are low. And joining an upwrong Chain Gang you're slower up hills, quicker down and on the flats and folk can't draft you, so really not ideal. Chain Gangs work in part because the bikes are effectively the same.
I prefer a Brom or a Moulton TSR round town, more manoeuvrable, can hop kerbs etc. Also much, much easier to manhandle.
Don't think of a recumbent as a functional class of cycle. You get racers, tourers, freighters, urban etc. just like upwrongs, and you need something functionally matched to what you want. Turn up at a race on a tourer and you'll get left behind. Also note that, unlike upwrongs there are huge differences between two models designed for more or less the same thing. Road bikes are, at a given price point, pretty interchangeable, but you can't assume that for 'bents.
My 'bent is for touring, where it's more comfortable, I can see where I'm going better, it's more comfortable, with the lowriders under me and between the wheels it carries luggage better, it's more comfortable, and there's no need for contrived trousers to make it... very comfortable.
Most of the reaction against them is rationalisation of the fear, uncertainty and doubt about something different. But try them out and the smile thing turns out to be true.
IMO visibility is a very valid points for city riding, with many bike lanes now separated from the road by a parking zone.
Being seen is only half of the problem, being able to see beyond your immediate surroundings is reassuring, and potentially life saving.
This video was a TEASER but definitely not a PLEASER.