Missabe Northern Railway - Part 2 - Iron Range to the Duluth Ore Docks
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- This segment of the HO Missabe Northern Railway tour follows the journey of ore from the Mesabi Iron Range to the ore docks of Duluth, Minnesota. Scenes are from both on track as well as trackside.
See Part 1 for an overview of the design and philosophy of this very large private model railroad plus more scenes of ore operations.
I can't think of any words to describe what I'm seeing here. My mind is Blown!!
Thanks for your kind thoughts.
As someone who really isn’t into American HO railroads, I have to say that this is incredible
Thank you for your kind remarks. We all have favorites, but I enjoy interesting surprises across the globe, too.
Very amazing. The talent it took to build a layout of that class. Just the amount of ore cars boggles me.
Thanks for kind words. Hard to beat 60 car trains in space of train with 35 freight cars of 40' length. Makes it look like articulateds are earning their keep!
I have to say this is one of the top 5 layouts I've ever seen. Your clear videos with the blow by blow descriptions of what we're seeing are awesome.
Thanks again, Roger. I appreciate your generous words.
What an amazing layout. You may have unwittingly saved me thousands of dollars by showing this video. I was think of starting into model trains with a layout of between the mines of the UP and the ore dock in Marquette, MI. This simply shows me I am not up to the task. Anything I tried would simply pale in comparison! I guess I will continue growing my vinyl record collecting hobby. This proves model trains are out of my league. You have done an incredible job in this video. Kudos to you, sir.
Please don't be put off by this. The desire is to show possibilities. Many hobbyists enjoy sharing and helping each other with ideas and techniques. The great thing about model railroading as with any good hobby is that one can grow into it as little or as much as one desires, based on the time, money, and space a person wants to devote to it. You already appreciate this in your record collecting hobby. My first HO model railroad was on a simple 4x6' sheet of plywood when I was 11, after playing with Lionel trains from age 3. That was 70 years ago. During the journey, I happened to be inspired to enjoy a diverse career in railroad industry. Not for everyone, but neither is stamp collecting. Any hobby is first for the benefit and enjoyment of the individual's interests. Best wishes!
Oh man, this is amazing! Super beautiful!
Great layout, thanks for posting the videos! I am slowly working on building my fleet of 24' ore jennies for my LS&I layout and I can only dream of having over a thousand.
Thank you. Best wishes on your progress - even ore cars not so cheap anymore! Glad I completed more of my fleet acquisition 15 years ago as I was expanding into this version 3 of MNRy.
What a beautiful layout. Certainly worthy of a spread in Model Railroader!
2013 Model Railroad Planning covered Proctor to ore docks. I wrote a Part 2 on iron range mines but not wanted because "already so many articles on iron mining". Going big for operation is a trade-off of time versus finished pretty scenery everywhere on small layouts that most mags want for recruiting to hobby. That is good for all of us in creating market for new products. I understand. I'm just not willing to trade a Yellowstone or N-3 looking good pulling 60 ore cars for a few hundred trees. Give up my ore dock scene? Scenery In good time!
Two of the most appealing elements of model railroading done to perfection on your layout - smooth operating steam locomotives and flawless hand laid trackwork.
I also like the look of your freight car fleet and your use of some of the best looking common plastic kit structures ever produced.
I find the Duluth / Superior area fascinating - so full of railroad history - like Butte Montana, where you soon realize the entire town was once covered by tracks. I would have really liked to have see the Interstate and Northern Pacific bridges crossing the harbor in the 60's - 70's and the NP and GN ore docks before the mergers and shut downs.
Thanks for kind comments, Scott. Diesels, especially 4- axle, will handle most anything but longer "rigid" wheelbases of steam and long cars really benefit from very good track geometry with long easements, both in performance and appearance while moving. Short "cookie cutter" easements may be necessary on small layouts, but longer easements where practical also make actual curve portion look larger radius than it is.
I should add that I benefitted from several friends building structure kits for me. A few also acquired in swap meets and quite a number of very well-done and detailed Campbell-style buildings by a custom builder. This allowed me to concentrate on track laying and scratch building turnouts in place as well as engine motor replacements and other performance tweaks. I wanted to get harder physical things done before age reduced my flexibility to crawl under benchwork - a wise choice.
@@Missabe3 My model collection is nowhere near as impressive as yours. I was a precision toolmaker - machinist for a number of years and appreciate the quality of your layout. A must have for me is quality trackwork. Good track can look like it is overgrown with weeds and is a week away from abandonment, but it absolutely has to look realistic and operate reliably. No commercial track ever looked as good to me as quality hand laid track and turnouts. Same goes for brass steam vs. plastic, although the latest plastic and die cast is getting much nicer. I hope I am still capable enough at "semi-retirement" to build my dream "big layout". My biggest worry is my deteriorating eyesight. While my dream layout's 10 locomotive roster's biggest power will be 1890's slide valve Baldwin 2-8-0's, I will build nothing less than #8 and 40" R curves. Not just for the looks, but for the improved operation, and ability to "test run" even the largest steam and passenger cars from time to time.
@@scottb8175 Thanks, Scott. If you have space for 40" radii with easements, great. But if not, 30" with easements will make equipment look better than 40" without easements. Proper easements will handle full length passenger cars with diaphragms because car ends follow gracefully without the back and forth "sawing" action when entering non-easemented curves. This effect is also noticeable between an engine and tender, especially with more modern equipment than your era where longer fireboxes and cabs make a long overhang that adds to the distracting back and forth visual without easements. Best wishes your sight won't deteriorate further.
@@Missabe3 Thank you. Yes, agreed easememts are crucial. I also plan to use superelevation. After seeing your results, I'd like to try spline roadbed, too. Despite my own preference for modelling early era railroading, it is hard to resist collecting and building my favorite "modern" superpower steam and even a few first generation diesels. My son is a big fan of first generation diesels, especially EMD's. I do have some large steam in my collection (the biggest thus far are Z-8's; and I have ingredients to hopefully scratch build a Z-5 someday). I like full length heavyweights, too, so track that allows "test" runs with diaphragms and double headed large steam is a must have. At least on mainlines and sidings.
What a layout!!
Amazing!! Thank you.
Thank you too!
Nice layout... very clean and simple...less is more...
Thanks!
Very nice layout. I would have sworn I once seen somewhere on the internet a Czech loco "Bardotka" on this or at least very similar layout. It was somewhere in the US or Canada, the silo at the beginning of the video made me remember that.
Thanks, but not me. 100% Minnesota, USA.
this is a double WOW WOW this is amazing layout I can't believe how many ore cars you have this is amazing layout. have you ever heard of Bingham Canyon and Copper King Mine you might like that channel and no i'm not a bot lol great layout hats off to you
Thanks, Dwight. Took a lot of time to build up fleet - starting from first HO layout on 4x6' sheet of plywood about 1960! This 3rd version of Missabe Northern is actually the 12th layout in my life.
Thanks for Bingham Canyon tip.
Very impressive! Wish I could visit!
Check Minn-Rail group ops meet in odd years (they have website) and occasional convention in area. Sorry, this forum not conducive to email sharing. I do follow Digitrax-Users@groups.io
This is very awesome 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Very cool! Always been a fan of DMIR. Unfortunately, I was never able to pick up an MTH Yellowstone when they made them.
Thank you. I got the MTH to reduce wear on my brass. I was pleasantly surprised at reasonable detail for price as MTH had marginal rep on earlier models. First thing I did, though, was rip out their compromise sound decoder and put in a Tsunami2. Boiler "grey" odd shade but these were never doubleheaded, so tolerable by itself. Most people don't over-scrutinize engine when trailed by a nice 60-car ore train... :-)
Nice.@@Missabe3
Magnificent
Cool you model something that isn't as mainstream with the RR crowd. I live in MN and been to the museum in Duluth.
Two Harbors also interesting place to visit - and see DM&IR tug Edna G.
You bought all the ore cars!
Glad I was accumulating in the 12-pack era...
Bravo!!
Love your railroad. Track work is fabulous. I grew up in Wayzata by the GN tracks and went to college at UMD. What brand of paint and color do you use for your ore cars. Thanks, Terry.
Thank you. Track is both a model and scenery - I like continuous flow and character of hand laid. I had been a longtime fan of Floquil, so had to move on when they disappeared. I liked the way ore docks and approaches turned out using Rustoleum primer (flat red) so used that for some of the MDC cars I wanted to repaint. Most cars whether Walthers or MDC are factory paint. A couple color pics I have of Proctor Yard showed mix of Missabe dark browns and boxcar reds including faded versions, so not too worried about perfect color matches. Large groups of slightly different shades just look like batches from different years. GN cars for my era were mineral red, akin to box car red. "Proper" prototype matches look too dark under artificial lighting anyway.
One thousand and seventy ore car fleet!!!! OMG!!!
Thanks. I run them in mine blocks of 5 cars each, one car card with all 5 numbers. Keeps train packs reasonable size, switching reasonable while moving nice cuts, and longer road trains looking more like they need the big articulateds they have.
With the cab view, you can see what a wonderful job that you did on the track. Hand laid and pin straight, very nice. This layout is incredible. I saw that you had another layout in a video from ten years ago. When did you start this layout and was there a move involved? The ore docks are spectacular. How do you handle turning a loco and not getting the loco stuck at the end of the dock with all of the ore cars behind it?
I sent you a separate reply, Derek. on the other layout. I visited Steve Brudlo's layout during a River Rail operations weekend back then.
My first layout to be named Missabe Northern (actually the 10th HO layout in my life) was built in suburban Chicago 1984-1995, then relocation to Omaha courtesy UP resulted in #2 during 1996-2002. So this incarnation became Missabe Northern #3. The first one was where I first used a lot of Homasote spline roadbed with about 80% of track hand laid. #2 was nearly double in size, #3 another 60% bigger because of my efficient construction design and very low maintenance making it practical. #3 has reused about 5% from #1 and 10% from #2, the rest is all new. Most structures and rolling stock of course migrated with me plus new additions.
Thank you for noticing my track work. Track is hand laid and turnouts scratch built in place to more realistically blend together and to be more reliable and realistically smooth including for long-wheelbase steam engines. Model curves and turnouts are much sharper than the prototype would use for the situations, so building them smoother gives an optical illusion that they are bigger than they really are when trains run over them. I can then also use #8's in the space most modelers would use commercial #6's (or even 5's) to save space by extending the closure rail curve smoothly through the frog and a bit beyond to join with yard body tracks. This European practice is hard to spot but a very noticeable benefit when big engines and long cars run over them without the lurching as is apparent on too-short North American straight-frog practice models.
Steam engines taking cars down to the ore docks were not turned. They faced up hill so the firebox crown sheets would be covered with water on the 2.2% hill grade if water was getting low. So they would back down, then pull the empties back up the hill "normally".
Missed a couple of your questions. The ore docks had crossovers on the double track approach, so the hill engine could duck out of the way and get lined to pull a different track of cars now empty up the hill. Meanwhile a different engine would get positioned to shove the loads the rest of the way onto an open dock track. When traffic was low, the hill engine might run around to make the shove itself.
The use of Homasote spline roadbed actually made it easier to reuse long stretches of track and the large Sandstone scene because the supporting bench work did not have to move with it, adding too much weight to handle. I dismantled the bench work to move and store more easily, reused it at the new location, then placed the roadbed back on it where it belonged.
Scratch built dock was never finished before next move, but Missabe 3 timing worked out because by then Walthers had released their ore dock kits. Long approaches were scratch built.
Wow, love the layout! What brand of switches do you use? or are they hand made?
Thank you. All scratch built in place - no templates. This allows turnouts to be smoother flowing to give the illusion of being bigger than they are, much like spiral easements give illusion of curves being larger than they actually are.
@@Missabe3 they look so great!
One or two passengers trains, I think, it will be good idea.
I actually have several that will be out when I have chance to do another video "railfanning". They are in Duluth and St. Paul depot areas or in staging so they won't clog freight operations until their scheduled appearances passing through.
Can you tell me more about that strange looking mallet at the beginning of the vid? I’ve never seen a 2-6-8-0 before?
Ah, queens of the fleet are favorites of mine - character. First 10 ordered from Baldwin for use in western mountains as pushers and handling steep curvy branch lines. Then GN started building their own hybrids from 2-8-0 consolidations and ordering just front 2-6-0 engines from Baldwin, per the very well researched "Steam Locomotives of the Great Northern Railway" book by Middleton and Priebe. Weak T.E. performance was overcome when converted from compound Mallets to simple articulateds. Small drivers severely limited speed, so lost favor over time but about 1/3 of fleet assigned to Minnesota iron mine territory. Their life was extended into mid-50s snaking into curvy mine leads and relatively short runs to gathering point at Kelly Lake near Hibbing.
Interesting history, so did you kitbash these yourself then? They’re a beautiful looking locomotive.
@@allychat8496 Sorry I missed your follow-up question back when. PFM imported Tenshodo brass models 1966-1978, then Oriental Limited imported excellent Samhongsa models in 1984. I have one of each acquired 2nd hand. Haven't kept up if newer ones done as I only needed the two. I did do the Glacier Park paint scheme on my Tenshodo in 1977 so gave it the number 1977, correct in the series. Painting something like this is easy - the time and tedious work is full disassembly, masking, and re-assembly!
All Steam, or any diesels?
I have full fleet of diesels to handle operations circa early 60's. But most modelers run diesels in part because they are easier to maintain and handle poor track. Running a large fleet of steam reliably for large operating sessions is one of the aspects of the Missabe Northern that makes it more rare.
Oh - my -word
Too many adjectives to describe this layout...
Coming from England, I know little or nothing about US railway (sorry, railroad) operations. One thing I've noticed from the layout, however, is a lack of trap points to protect the running lines and catch points for runaways. Were these features not seen in the US?
We may need to negotiate terms! :-) I think by "trap points" you may be referring to what we call switch point protectors that are guard rails just ahead of a point to reduce chance of opposite wheel picking the point with very undesirable consequences. These were generally only used in my experience in curved turnout situations where the flange would be tight against the out rail and point, increasing the risk. Use of undercut points also reduced this risk and required less adjustment maintenance that a guard rail. By "catch points" I think you may be referring to a diverging turnout (switch) on a steep grade, much like runaway ramps more often see on mountain highways. Very rare in US but one notable example was on Saluda Mountain in N. Carolina, Norfolk Southern track abandoned in 2001. Switch was lined for runaway and automatically aligned for main track only if timer determined train was travelling under a certain speed - about 6 mph as I recall.
US standard gauge roads tried to hold grades to 2.2% or less and so almost never provided runaway tracks.
By the way, GN and DM&IR used Railway in their names - we didn't completely ruin the English language! That's why I use Missabe Northern Railway also.
I have a question the 1st engine the great northern what engine type is it?
GN Class M-2 2-6-8-0. 55" drivers greatly limited speed. Disappointing as Class M-1 Mallet compounds, conversion to simple articulateds starting in 1925 with other improvements becoming the M-2 class, tractive effort was increased dramatically to a very respectable 95,500 pounds. GN's dieselization in west increased their presence on the Iron Range where their tractive effort and flexibility made them well suited to mine transfer service where they served into the mid-1950's.
@@Missabe3 Where do you purchase your models from or did you scratch build them
@@loganadams3360 Sorry I missed your follow-up question, too, back when. PFM imported Tenshodo brass models 1966-1978, then Oriental Limited imported excellent Samhongsa models in 1984. I have one of each acquired 2nd hand. The first was at a monthly swap meet in Chicago area (Wheaton) and the newer one just 5 years ago from a friend nearby in suburban Minneapolis. I did do the Glacier Park paint scheme on my Tenshodo in 1977 so gave it the number 1977, correct in the series. Painting something like this is easy - the time and tedious work is full disassembly, masking, and re-assembly!
Are all the ore cars individually numbered? Beautiful layout.
No, about 1/3 (350 or so) are unique numbers. For operating convenience, all cars are grouped in "mine blocks" of 5 cars each. Raw ore was sampled at mines in mine blocks of 3-7 cars of similar chemical composition, so I chose 5 as the average and to make counting easier. I then can have one car card for each block of 5 cars so a sixty car road train is only 12 car cards plus caboose card, much easier to manage and carry along than 61 cards. When I started expanding the fleet for this version of the Missabe Northern, I would buy five 12-packs of Walthers cars at a time, then make each block with 5 cars the same number. This makes ore and mine switching easier. A block has dummy couplers within the set and working Kadee couplers on each end only.
Where I did need new numbers for older MDC cars and repaints, I made my own decals with consecutive numbers, numbering sets with last digits of 1-5 or 6-9-0, again to make spotting in long cuts easier to locate where to uncouple.
If every car was unique and independent, it would be an administrative nightmare to keep everything straight, which is why full size railroads had an army of clerks to do the car checking in the yards and organize the paperwork. I prefer to model what is fun, not what was very tedious.