Hope you enjoyed this video! It took a lot longer than I expected! Be sure to check out my other work: ua-cam.com/play/PLiycajElJ3oagkdmRzyeNPRH-85qp9cFn.html (I hope nobody noticed the title screw-up!)
@@IntercactusYKW That was the filename, UA-cam auto sets it to that and you can just manually rename it while editing the description. Despite this video being ready for 2 weeks, I had completely forgotten to add a title!
Any reason you didn't include Ceadeus from MH Tri and MH3U? He's pretty much an underwater Lao Shan Lung at its core, swimming slowly and ignoring you most of the fight, threatening the foundation of the village. You either repel him or kill him in the final area, with or without using the nearby Dragonator and Ballista.
@@pilotbt1617 correction 2* Unless it's multiplayer in Gu Sounds strange but there's always that one stupid Palico or hunter Lao and white fatty gave me the worst party of Randos just because of those two hunters One of them where a proeler
what I love about the 4U siege is that you BUILD the freaking place and need to complete quests to finish the demolisher. a testament on how 4U made you attached to the places and npc
It's a Zorah. No reason given why it wouldn't be unlike the Vale Skull. They're even similarly sized, though like all skulls it's still slightly bigger than the living thing.
@@kingofflames738 yeah relocking at it it my just be damage to the skull fooling me since one side was damaged though now I'm wondering since the art book showed zorah having wings under the large shell where are they in terms of the skeleton
@@Virjunior01 you can kill lao, timer is pretty tight but killing him is more than possible, it just gets you more carves simce repels give you laos rewards anways but its good to do.
Siege fights are one of the sole vestiges of the original concept of Monster Hunter, where teams of hunters would fight monsters in dungeons, and there was more of an emphasis on using tools to take down monsters. Also, I'm one of the only people who actually liked the Rampages as a concept (though not completely). I loved hitting the hunting gong as soon as it was available and absolutely demolishing entire hordes of monsters like a badass. The Apex Rampages and the Ibushi rampages were my ultimate favorites because they mixed in some "traditional" siege gameplay, with the main target being one single monster who you can choose to whack with your weapon or utilize the various traps around the Red Stronghold, like the Wyvernsplitter Cannon or the Dragonators. Loved seeing a miniature nuke send an unfortunate Apex Rathian reeling, and then whaling on her. ...shame about the Rampage weapons though.
Thank you for pointing out that a big part of Zorah escaping capture was Nergigante interfering with the operation and ripping a lot of the binders loose. It feels like everyone else either forgets that or conveniently ignores it when they rant about how it was obviously doomed to fail.
You make it sound as if very the flammable wooden platforms and equally burnable rope stood any realistic chance of holding a creature that is mainly formed of friking magma. It was never going to be captured.
Zorah deserves justice. It arrived with us, the 5th fleet, so its one of us. I legit liked that part of the story. It arrived with us, so its one of us and needs to be given a proper sendoff. Great idea poorly executed.
Arch Tempered Zorah is actually pretty fun. For 1 thing the timer is lowered to 35 minutes like the other siege fights. You pretty much need to hit every single stalagtite in order to reach the damage check while on his back and Nergigante is not optional, Nergigante must be repelled and quickly. When you get into the final phase Zorah's gatecracker attacks will actually destroy the gate and must be interrupted with the Binders and Dragonator similar to the Mohrans, If 3 go off the barrier is dead. ATZorah can be fought solo but you need to play pretty much perfectly and in multiplayer if you're slacking you might actually time out or see the gate die. The magma cores will also probably 1 shot you if you're not built for armor and fire resist so you need to be paying attention. The fight still suffers from linearity, you pretty much need to be doing very specific tasks at very specific times but the fight is at least kinda fun, a watered down version of GU Lao fight if you would.
I do wonder if Wilds will actually do anything with the Technical Achievements from Zorah, or if the Devs will leave him behind and work on other ideas for Sieges. An idea for Wilds that's entered my head watching would be a Mohran-esque fight but instead of needing to pull yourself back up with rope, you get saved by your mount and can either get back on the ship or climb on the monster, which is something you could do from the start. For balancing purposes I would personally have the Area you can access from the start be not the best, while a better area can be climbed onto only after breaking a part or two with the Ballista and Cannons. But that's just something that floated into my head and I doubt is matched by the ideas the Devs have.
My favorite siege is still the moh'ran twins, love the theme and the chasing between a ship and a monster. And for me is overall intense and fun at the same time
My hunting crew and I really like rampages; we all consider them our favourite siege fight. The ability to place the installations yourself, tower defense style, is a really great addition to the siege format. We also really liked jumping into the fray ourselves when the gong was rung; because rampages use normal monsters, you get to content with them like normal monsters (flinching, topples, etc.) whereas a lot of "siege monsters" designed specifically for sieges aren't particularly reactive to your attacks. Plus, hitting a monster with a bit attack and seeing 2000 damage pop up is really satisfying, haha. The different objectives you get in each wave of the fight also serve to spice things up, by changing the sub-objectives you're aiming for each time. I do understand the complaint that rampages are a bit scripted, especially the apex rampages (where the apex will always break through to the last barrier). However, I find most sieges very scripted, so I don't think the scripted nature of the rampages makes them worse than other sieges.
Yeah honestly it seems like rampages are much more multiplayer focused than single player, becoming much more enjoyable with other people helping around (I personally enjoyed it solo despite this though, so it's not like you can't enjoy rampages to some extent solo)
I don't think zorah was a waste, as I hope it's given them a backbone for the devs to develope stronger siege battle or walking locals in the future gens
Favourite siege gotta be a mix between dah’ren and GU Lao Both fights got such a nice atmosphere and tension Never gonna forget my first dahren fight, played with a friend who got me into the series And I pulled his rare drop as my first ever carve Good times
I love Lao Shan Lung's design, I hope he comes back. Though i wouldnt mind making him and the fight a bit faster. Plus i wanna see just how Fatalis is able to prey on them. It feels like a blue whale and orca situation.
The siege battle with Lao Shan Lung is actually what got me into Monster Hunter. Specifically, UA-cam recommended a video of a game I've never seen before where a bunch of guys in multiplayer were running around on a rampart shooting cannons at this big dragon looking thing and I thought "why have I never heard of this game before?" and that spurred looking up more gameplay. I ended up getting MH3U on the 3DS in the following months. Dah’ren Mohran being your first monster fight is really cool. Mine was Lagombi, since I played the 3u demo before buying it and that was the 'easy' monster. I remember since 3U did not have online play I had to fight Jhen Mohran in the hunter's hub solo. Fighting Dah’ren Mohran with a group of friends was such a gamechanger and exemplifies a lot of what I love about Monster Hunter. The Zorah Magdoros fight is pretty amazing - in theory. One of the things I loved about the Mohran fights was being able to climb on top of the monster and walk around like it was part of the map and doing damage to specific parts or even mining ores from its back. It really felt like these monsters are so massive they're practically their own ecosystem, and the sheer spectacle of them is another thing entirely. Zorah had the potential to crank this dynamic up to 11: Now you can not only mine materials on its back, you can fight a monster there too. The issue is as you described in the video, in that there's no real reason to fight the one and only monster that shows up on Zorah's back. This could have potentially been sidestepped if, say, there was a unique monster that you could ONLY fight on Zorah Magdoros since it lives there or has a symbiotic or other relation to him. With the announcement of Monster Hunter Wilds and the speculation that it could potentially be an 'open world' game similar to Breath of the Wild, one could imagine a monster such as Zorah Magdoros just showing up on said world and walking across it. That would probably be way cooler than relegating it to a corridor in the water. I suspect if they revisit this idea again they might not specifically use Zorah Magdoros, but a similar monster you can walk on top of and fight monsters on. Considering how much time and effort went into making Zorah work in terms of standing and fighting on top of it while it's moving and standing up etc. it'd seem a waste to not put that technical achievement to use in future games. In another video someone had suggested that since airships are in other games perhaps Monster Hunter Wilds could have an airship for a base since it's a new location with no permanent bases yet, but what if people had tamed and domesticated a giant monster of some kind and built their base on its back? You could just walk the monster (and thus your base) to where you're going to be hunting. I don't mean to turn this into Monster Hunter Wilds speculation, I'm just trying to say that Zorah Magdoros (or the mechanics its existence now allows) could potentially be used for some really cool stuff in future games, it was just a big flop in its debut game, and it's a damn shame.
Dual blades in demon mode can safely dance behind the rear right leg of Lao, staggering him this way can make him fall over and lie on the ground for a good 20 over seconds, however, you can only do this about 3 times at max or he will not have enough time to reach the final area when you do it too much, and can cause the quest to be a repel.
I personally hated Shen Gaoren. When I played Freedom Unite (Village Quests), I got stuck on it no matter what I did, and it made me stop playing the game. I also got stuck on Lao in Generations Ultimate, but I'm less mad about that one because it was in G Rank and I was alone, and also because I could actually call someone for help then (Heavy Bowgun main arrived in lobby wearing nothing but undies, absolutely destroyed him).
Damn, 1 hour??? This behemoth of a video might just start a siege of its own… I want to like siege fights. Like, so badly. But I’ve just never vibed with them. I’ve always found them so slow and asinine, despite their incredible spectacle. However, their improvement across the games is noteworthy (even if they would culminate in the form of Zorah Magdaros, the biggest waste of time from both a fight and development standpoint) and even though soloing Lao in GU may have shortened my lifespan by at least 10 years, that fight had so many interesting ideas that it could serve as a blueprint for more sieges to come. Going off of the rampage fights, it seems the devs have learned their lessons from Zorah. It just takes a lot more interactivity to make these fights as great as they should be. This video was worth the wait and very well put together! It’s remarkable how much you’ve improved with delivering scripts in just under 2 years. Keep it up man!
Really enjoyed this video! I'm glad you decided to deep dive and make it longer :) as someone who joined in on MonHun3rd, I like seeing all the info and even general hubbub that happened during the earlier games. Thank you and keep up the good work!
My biggest problem with the zorah fights is that they feel completely unengaging and not like a challenge. In the first one it literally doesnt matter what you do, for the second one there is a damage check but its still so easy to reach and you still end up waiting to continue for entire minutes. It might be a spectacle the first time but after that it is just... idk.. i got into the series with world and thought they have always been like this. Learning siege fights used to be.. well actual fights was almost heartbreaking lmao
We played Lao Shan on MHFU, you can topple him in Area 2, 3 and 4 if you manage to damage him too much. It also shows that you are peaking damage to him. If you manage to topple him 3 times before he reach area 5, when he reach area 5, one minor damage will kill him.
I'm an old school Monster Hunter enjoyer, started with Tri (so glad the private servers exist now) and played games as they came out. Just recently started going and playing Gen 1 and 2 games, Freedom 1 had a lot of jank that got in the way of enjoying the game. Still finished it (Crimson Fatty solo was hell), absolutely a worthwhile experience, never playing it again. Lao Shan solo is a big part of that. Freedom Unite is the most fun I've had with Monster Hunter in awhile. Solo and multiplayer through Hunsterverse have both been a blast. The Sieges are super fun with a party. And in Tri, Jhen Mohran with a party is absolutely some of the most fun the series has to offer. Proof of a Hero kicking in on the Dragonator in that fight is one of the best moments the series has to offer. I don't think another fight in the series quite conveys the feeling of fighting a gigantic monster quite the way Jhen does. Dalamadur more feels like a disconnected background element coming into the foreground to hit, and Zorah Magdaros feels like attacking a building.
If I remember right, Lao-Shang Lung has several points on the map where you could jump on its back as it passed before reaching area 5. This gave early access to the back carves and was also a good place to attack and bomb in order to break the true weak spot the back. There was also a tell for when you reached the damage cap for an area: Lao would speed up.
in reality the true weakness of shen garden is inside the shell in form of his tiny giantic butt. it's actually easier to reach than the face and you can hit it with most large weapons when gaoren is crouching and deal massive damage instead of hitting the legs and you will kill him way faster than going legs into face
Great Video! Long rant about the "future" of siege monsters/ideas to make them better incoming I personally really like the idea behind siege monsters, but they can sometimes play lackluster. I feel like the mohrans are the best general template for a siege fight. 2 phases, the first being more about cannons and ballistae, while still offering direct opportunities and the second being more about melee/normal weapons, while still allowing the use of siege weapons. To modernize the fights you could make the first phase allow for more mounting opportunities and maybe add more variance in the siege buildings, similar to rise. For the second phase you could have the mohran mostly fight the players, while sometimes throwing high damage attacks at the ship, similar to Ibushi during the rampage. Another thing could be, that the first phase mainly is about weakenig the mohran. Breaking its horns/arms/mouth so that it is weaker during the second phase. And even when the mohran destroys the ship during the first phase, you still get a chance to take it down, but have less weapons/ a stronger opponent. Most siege monsters could be "fixed" by making the first half about weakening them and the second half about killing them, while also sometimes needing to interrupt their "breakthrough" attacks. Of course dealing enough damage/getting enough breaks skips the remaining first phase to safe time/sanity of grinders. Of course, not all fights can follow this formula. The mohran fights can very easily be split between 2 areas, as you are on a ship and then you aren't. With Lao and Shen you'd maybe could have the arena be constructed with a "killzone" in which you want lao to be, because there the dragonator and other weapons are. So you need to get him to move to that path by being annoying. The whole arena could look like a crescent moon with a circle in the middle. Lao walks on the half circle, trying to reach the end. The moon is segmeted by gates, and each segmet is connected to the circle. You need to deal enough damage to lao, so that he goes to the circle, where you can kill/repel him. If you don't deal enough damage during the first moon segment, he breaks through and you need to fall back, like the rampages. Once he reaches the end, because you couldn't steer him to the circel area, you need to fight him there. To make the kill zone more interesting, you could have him still try to take down a watchtower armed with a splitting wyvern shot or a similar structure in the middle. Lao would mainly target the hunters, but you still need to defend your tower. In essence a mix of the GenU Lao, Gogmazios and the "Final Showdown" Generally the only monster I don't really have any idea to salvage would be Zorah, simply because it is too big, so you can't really have the balance of "just big enough that it can be walked on, but small enough where your weapons have an effect".
I think it's incredibly sad that Sunbreak didn't have any returning or original siege fights since I think the base game laid an incredible groundwork for that. The revisions to the siege weapons themseves which made boarding them way more engaging and the wirebug's ability to make you going on top of monster seemlessly would have for ancredible fight against a giant like Dalamadur, Gogmazios or Ahtal-Ka or siege fights like the Jhens or Lao. It's such a shame and waste of potential. I mean at least Narwa and Gaismagorm (also Amatsu to a slighter degree) gave us a taste of that...
Great recap on the series' sieges! Though I think it's also worth noting not only how but when most of these hunts were made available! I can't speak for the exact specifics of 1, G or Dos, but these massive fights were initially exclusive to the online city hubs. For Tri's Jhen Mohran they would appear sporadically as part of cycling batches of event quests and would coincide with sandstorms that would engulf the city of Loc Lac, including changing the usual rotations of music for one matching Jhen's approach. These event quests were also made available for all ranks of hunters and generally presented as a gold rush opportunity to mine from Jhen while attempting to hunt them. The lowest ranked players wouldn't be capable of getting a repel, but with some stronger players mixed in a party and with everyone well coordinated on the fight there was a solid opportunity to complete the hunt. This also meant the second phase wasn't present until reaching high rank, and at best managing to keep the boat intact would result again in a repel before reaching end game gear. This gave Jhen's hunts many layers as you progressed through Loc Lac's ranks, giving many milestones each time you'd next encounter them and really hammered home the purpose of event quests bringing together all ranks of players to engage and cooperate, learning and mastering the hunt. It's understandable with the handheld games of the series being more well known before World, but a lot of players didn't seem to grasp the intention of World's rotating event quests, and maybe that could be considered another failing of Zorah Magdaros. Although I unfortunately didn't get around to playing World Iceborne until after support had ended, so maybe they had a richer experience than myself arriving late to the party 😂
I didn’t mind the siege fights due to the weapons you can get and the sharpness and damage from the monsters in them except for some that don’t give anything except items
Was hoping to see Kulve, Fatalis, Gaismagorm, and the rampage mode from Rise. I guess most of those don't fall under your definition of a siege but they don't feel like mormal fights either. I think the Rampage mode in Rise does fit under your definition though and would have been cool to see more here as I enjoy long videos but will gladly watch your next one.
I think siege fights kinda fundamentally clash with monster hunter tbh. The core of the game is built around the insanely deep combat system that involves positioning and timing, so having all of these walking/cannon reloading sims doesn't add much to the game for me. What they do offer is great spectacle, but that wears off after 1 or 2 hunts. If it were up to me, they'd be exclusively in the background like the snail from rise or be more like regular fights like kulve or gog
To specify for Monster Hunter G it's only the village Lao quest that has a 50 minute timer, which is unlocked by completing all Village Quests (including hidden quests) and every training school quest with every weapon.
A fix to the Zorah siege should be as soon as the Hunters meet the requirements for each phase, the mission should automatically move forward. So mine and break whatever parts you need then proceed to destroy the magma cores.
Maybe in the future they can bring Zorah back and improve it by using a smaller, younger one that's faster and more aggressive with a differently shaped shell. It's a really cool concept, walking on a huge monster. And it's amazing how they got all that to work.
Notes with GenU Lao Through my experience grinding the quest solo, Lao will always hit the 1st fortress at least once prior to him moving to area 2 The cannon in area 2 can be kept on the bridge until the nearby cannon supply is drained, from there it can be moved to near the fortress While it’s hard to time out, hitting Lao with the dragonator while his forelimbs are holding the fortress and him dragging his head can cause a new stagger. This stagger leaves his mouth open, revealing a 80 hit zone for his head. Other spot that’s “good” is his back at 60? Idk exactly
zorah's got stalagmites as well that do damage than stalagtites much less of them but ye also a few breakable parts besides magma cores you can hit on its bakc (they look like big rocks of sort) so you dont get bored. also if it does certain attacks(headbutting or grabbing the barrier) it can be remounted during the attacking with cannons phase. a 4th magma core is its nose ballista can hit it but its better to remount and utterly weaken it. i find it funny that all in all zorah is reduced to guiding lands scraps( a skeleton located in the guiding lands and in rise's frost islands)
I really hope Zora Magdaraos comes back, but revamped. If the fight is largely done outside of his body, but you can find openings to jump on his body and start smacking the lava cores to help increase the damage your ballistae and canons do to him, you could have a really cool fight!
Don't know if anyone said this already but you can fight regular Lao Shan Lung in the offline mode of DOS, near the endgame, after you unlock Chameleos I believe. His quest wild randomly pop.
I feel like Zora Magdaros is to big for big scale fight. I know fight big kaiju who size like godzila looks cool. But the down side the movement will slow and only relaying on fire wepony "bazooka, arrow etc" And nergigante is something not necessary is kind a proof of lack of contain in Zora fight.
Heavywings fun fact theres a youtuber by the name of zanny and when he played monster hunter world for the first time and when he is doing the quest "a collossal task" when nergigante appear he actually got lost on zorahs back and when nergigante leave he said the following: "hahahaha it f***ing left i bored it into submition😂" yes he actually swears
The bad part about lao shan lung was that all the best endgame weapons required multiple of his rare drops (ruby etc). This meant you had to kill him multiple times, which took very long and was really boring and your weren't even guaranteed to get what you wanted. I remember just using (felyne) heroics with the akantor bow eventually to farm him. However this did so much damage, that he would flinch too much to even reach the last area where he could be killed, thus failing the quest even though he was actually at 1 hp. I also remember using a paintball to kill him in the last area because of this. The result however was, that I literally AFK'd his quest until he entered the last zone, and still killing him with heroics in under 10 minutes. It was a really memorable quest for sure, but imo for all the wrong reasons. If his materials wouldn't have been so important for endgame weapons, it probably would have been a lot better. My theory is that most "fans" of lao shan never really reached the endgame of freedom 2/unite.
6:45 The Fortress is actually part of Minegarde, not the town of schrade. Schrade (the town) was destroyed by Fatalis. It's where the castle was. Minegarde is the capital of west schrade. After Fatalis destroyed the capital the kingdom split in two. West and East Schrade. East Schrade has much colder climates and is where the swamps of gen 1 and 2 are. West Schrade is where Kokoto and Minegarde are as well as Forest and Hills, the Jungle and the desert. I think the volcanic belt is neutral ground like the area where Dundorma is.
I think they should bring back some of these with the new mechanics and make them more aggressive. Would make them way better as long as dont do zorah magdaros thing lol altho arch tempered zorah is def better than base one
I’m so sad that Zorah was a poorly done fight, especially after hearing how much work went into them. Easily my favorite elder dragon by design and he deserves better! It’s not going to happen, but seeing more of Zorah or even a similar species like what happened with the mohrans, giving us a new Magdaros
Lmfao, honestly during my first ever playthrough of MHW and the first zorah quest, I ended up getting totally lost while on his back while Nergigante was active, and I was lost for so long that it just left before I could get there
"The portable games don't bother with these" Freedom Unite has Lao and Shen, Portable 3rd has Jhen, and of course GU has Lao as well. Good video overall, but this part is pretty off-base. It'd be more accurate to say the portable games don't generally implement *brand new* siege fights, instead preferring to reuse sieges from the mainline games.
scrapping zorah that required an entire year of work would have gave the developers enough time to develop underwater combat in a decent way change my mind
I'll be honest, I completely forgot about the one-off mid story Siege with Zorah XD. The Event quest wasn't really memorable either and I had no idea that repelling Nirgigante was required, I just went at him thinking it would be quicker to repel him myself rather than wait XD. Also I think the Fatalis fight in Iceborne could be an honourable mention, though it's not really a Siege fight it's kinda set up like one.
Some extra notes on Zorah: The first Urgent when you fight him is actually the first appearance of some higher grade ores, so I think the long waiting period is an intentional decision to let players mine. But yeah, it's too long a wait, even when hanging out with newcomers on the Urgent there's always a point where they get bored, ask "ok what now" and I have to break the news to them. You can also climb atop Zorah during the final phase of the real fight, such as when he punches the barrier, you can run across it, climb on and even stand on his head to try and break his horn magmacore. I am _so_ frustrated that it's such a pointless feature, because it's so fucking cool. Oh yeah, and it's a bit weird that you mentioned Shen's corpse in GU and Zorah's in Rise, but I didn't catch a reference to Zorah's corpse (and MR armorset via gathering) being incorporated into the Guiding Lands, which is a pretty cool cause and effect between basegame and the expansion, especially for Fivers who didn't have quite the same recognition factor with Dalamadur in the Rotten Vale.
Happy to see so many Rampage enjoyers in the comment section. It absolutely blows my mind that there are people who despise, not just dislike, but bear vitriolic hatred towards Rampages. They are so unambiguously a massive step up from earlier sieges, which often actually do have the problem of being cool concepts that are absolute slogs to play through. As someone else mentioned, they're often incredibly scripted, which makes subsequent replays less and less engaging. Rampages were way more dynamic, with each monster "unit" configuration offering an opportunity for a different approach. You could not pay me to hunt Lao again. At least Jhen Mohran had spectacle. But the Rampages were actually fun diversions that offered a change of pace, even if they were put on the backburner in sunbreak and the rewards were rendered obsolete. The rewards for other sieges are not enough to motivate me to do them. Having fun in rampages is its own reward.
Rampages are definitely better than something like Zorah Magdaros but holy shit are they still painful. Just bc it's more stimulating and there's more stuff to do, doesn't mean its good. MH is very much so based on positioning and timing, which just doesn't happen in Rampages. All you do is wail on them while they hit the gate, and then at the same time there's a million different monsters taking up your screen while doing so, so you can't even see anything. They made what was already a chore, into more of a chore. Again, just bc you have a more active and dynamic role, doesn't mean its good. The best part about older game sieges, even tho it's a pain in the ass just watching waiting for them to get where they need to get to, was the spectacle. Meanwhile in Rampages you just have a bunch of random monsters running around with no rhyme or reason, and especially in solo, this feels really stupid. So now there's not only no spectacle, but you're also heavily forced to engage with the quest. If I wanted a change of pace in the game, I would go gather. Something that actually contributes to the feeling of "the hunt". I don't want to be forced to play tower defense in an action RPG. Especially in solo, sure you have auto installments, but there's little point in actually using installments other than dragonator and wyvernfire. Other than that, it feels like you're just running around doing busy work waiting for the quest to end. Sure the early sieges have this problem too, but now I'm forced to engage with something I already don't enjoy.
the only one time I enjoy lao siege was when I did the no weapon run (artillery only) in GU, but then again waiting him to walk in front of the cannon could probably let me start a family or two
I loved the original Lao Shan Lung fight in the first game! I find that most if not all of the negativity about it only comes from it being the in the first game and people comparing it to the many game that have been released since. Remember the first game and other early title had many extreme limitation in terms of game play.
I've been doing a new playthrough of Rise with a different weapon and I've been having so much fun with Rampages (All solo). I honestly do not understand the complaints about being overwhelmed when you have so many installations available with villagers that can pull their own weight and deter monsters by themselves or with a little help. And I don't know how you get bored when you're always running around with something to do and managing everything. It's an ego boost placing them all how I want to and then seeing them successfully drive back monsters while I work somewhere else on the map. And the mounted weapons are so fun to use. I think it would've been cool if they had the the time to expand it the story to helping multiple different villages in each of the first 5 locales so you could then have a change of scenery as well as include monsters that don't appear in Rampages like Goss Harag or Somnacanth. The only things I think that needed to be improved were variety, monster health, and the durability of the final gate. Even with installation upgrades, some of the monsters seem to take so many hits to make them retreat if you use the cannons or ballistae. And the final gate wasn't under much threat unless the Apexes or Ibushi were involved. I did some Ibushi Rampages a few weeks ago and he almost busted the whole thing, the gate icon was literally crumbling. I love the excitement the Apexes and Ibushi bring at the end and how they bust through everything. The named characters being available to come in and actually help is nice, and they're all pretty useful.
Was surprised to see Rampages excluded, but conclusion gave me the info I needed. Ngl, I feel rampages managed to do siege better than most, although unless you're fending off an apex or Ibushi, you ain't really gonna have a hard time, and Ibushi ain't even the hardest one. like most sieges though, it's definitely something I enjoy better with friends, it allows to divide tasks, and generally I'll always let my pals do the first zone while I prepare zone 2 so we get some installations ready from the start. On the matter of the video, Zorah Magdaros was kinda fine the first time, but you won't catch me trying it more, it's just kinda boring. GU Lao Shan though, I really want to kill one again with my friends, he was a lot of fun. I have 3U to do eventually, this means having to fight the Jhen Mohrans alone, so that's... nor gonna be fun.
Jhen Mohran in 3U isn't too bad on your own in High Rank as long as you're competent. Even when I was a little scrub I was able to repel him consistently. You need to be a bit better for the G-Rank ones though, especially Normal Jhen since they give you a 50 minute time limit IIRC so you gotta be _really_ on top of dishing out damage with your weapons once he gets close enough for you to chop at his neck/belly. His massive attacks are designed so that they're spaced far enough apart that you're not going to be caught with your gong un-ringable or your binders un-shootable as long as you're being smart with how you use them. I found it kind of fun when I was younger, optimizing when to gather ballista ammo vs when to shoot at him so I could maximize part breaks and damage.
Yes this. With friends, rampages can actually be alright. However what happens when the game is a few years old, there's no one playing, and you don't have friends to play with? It becomes more of a chore than it's worth and you're running around like a headless chicken doing busy work. It was something that was heavily designed around multiple players and didn't really take into account solo play, and for that reason I cannot call them good.
In my opinion, Kulve Taroth and Safi'jiiva ARE siege quests, but not in the traditional sense. They're offensive sieges, where you're there one who is battling your way to defeat the monster, wearing them down until you slay them. The older ones are defensive sieges, where you're the one defending a settlement. Really, the difference is just who is attacking and who is defending, but they're both still sieges in the fact you or they are wearing down something, whether structure or monster.
@@HeavyWings you can find them on youtube by writing "monster hunter online shen gaoren fight" which feature the "actual" latest appearence of the giant enemy crab and make it better (even tho online is not a canon game in the series)
Hope you enjoyed this video! It took a lot longer than I expected! Be sure to check out my other work:
ua-cam.com/play/PLiycajElJ3oagkdmRzyeNPRH-85qp9cFn.html
(I hope nobody noticed the title screw-up!)
Giant Monsters V2 ;)
Having notifs on is a blessing
@@IntercactusYKW That was the filename, UA-cam auto sets it to that and you can just manually rename it while editing the description. Despite this video being ready for 2 weeks, I had completely forgotten to add a title!
@@HeavyWings It's happened to me a few times as well, I feel you!
Think you'll cover the other siege hunts in another video?
Any reason you didn't include Ceadeus from MH Tri and MH3U?
He's pretty much an underwater Lao Shan Lung at its core, swimming slowly and ignoring you most of the fight, threatening the foundation of the village. You either repel him or kill him in the final area, with or without using the nearby Dragonator and Ballista.
Lao Shan Lung fans when Lao Shan Heart and Lao Shan Liver fans walk in:
Bold of you to assume lao has fans...
@@Bridgetfan500 i'm one of them
@@Bridgetfan500 all 1 player(s)
@@pilotbt1617 correction 2*
Unless it's multiplayer in Gu
Sounds strange but there's always that one stupid Palico or hunter
Lao and white fatty gave me the worst party of Randos just because of those two hunters
One of them where a proeler
3
what I love about the 4U siege is that you BUILD the freaking place and need to complete quests to finish the demolisher. a testament on how 4U made you attached to the places and npc
Zorah never really felt threatening. I didn't realize though his skull in rise and him threatening the entire new world.
Technically not zorah in the frost islands though I do believe it's a subspecies we haven't seen yet
It's a Zorah. No reason given why it wouldn't be unlike the Vale Skull. They're even similarly sized, though like all skulls it's still slightly bigger than the living thing.
@@kingofflames738 yeah relocking at it it my just be damage to the skull fooling me since one side was damaged though now I'm wondering since the art book showed zorah having wings under the large shell where are they in terms of the skeleton
@@kingofflames738why would the vale skull be different?
@@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf Big horns on the nose and missing blades.
"you cannot kill zorah, you can only convince him that going down this path is going to be really annoying" SO GOOD lol, never thought of it that way
Basically the same as Lao
@@Virjunior01 you can kill lao, timer is pretty tight but killing him is more than possible, it just gets you more carves simce repels give you laos rewards anways but its good to do.
@@zander2758 yeah, later, with better gear
Siege fights are one of the sole vestiges of the original concept of Monster Hunter, where teams of hunters would fight monsters in dungeons, and there was more of an emphasis on using tools to take down monsters.
Also, I'm one of the only people who actually liked the Rampages as a concept (though not completely). I loved hitting the hunting gong as soon as it was available and absolutely demolishing entire hordes of monsters like a badass. The Apex Rampages and the Ibushi rampages were my ultimate favorites because they mixed in some "traditional" siege gameplay, with the main target being one single monster who you can choose to whack with your weapon or utilize the various traps around the Red Stronghold, like the Wyvernsplitter Cannon or the Dragonators. Loved seeing a miniature nuke send an unfortunate Apex Rathian reeling, and then whaling on her.
...shame about the Rampage weapons though.
I absolutely love Rampages. Such a shame Rise had such chaotic development.
I love Lao. If only he didn't take a gazillion years to load into the next zone...
He takes forever! It does give you a chance to sharpen but do we really need that long?!
25 minutes of nap time followed by 10 minutes of frenzied panic
I wonder what Lao would be like with an open map (no loading) and all the new mobility tools
Plenty of time to set up Heroics.
Thank you for pointing out that a big part of Zorah escaping capture was Nergigante interfering with the operation and ripping a lot of the binders loose. It feels like everyone else either forgets that or conveniently ignores it when they rant about how it was obviously doomed to fail.
I'm not sure if the plan still would have succeeded tbh but he absolutely sabotaged it.
You make it sound as if very the flammable wooden platforms and equally burnable rope stood any realistic chance of holding a creature that is mainly formed of friking magma. It was never going to be captured.
Zorah deserves justice. It arrived with us, the 5th fleet, so its one of us. I legit liked that part of the story. It arrived with us, so its one of us and needs to be given a proper sendoff. Great idea poorly executed.
Arch Tempered Zorah is actually pretty fun. For 1 thing the timer is lowered to 35 minutes like the other siege fights. You pretty much need to hit every single stalagtite in order to reach the damage check while on his back and Nergigante is not optional, Nergigante must be repelled and quickly. When you get into the final phase Zorah's gatecracker attacks will actually destroy the gate and must be interrupted with the Binders and Dragonator similar to the Mohrans, If 3 go off the barrier is dead. ATZorah can be fought solo but you need to play pretty much perfectly and in multiplayer if you're slacking you might actually time out or see the gate die. The magma cores will also probably 1 shot you if you're not built for armor and fire resist so you need to be paying attention. The fight still suffers from linearity, you pretty much need to be doing very specific tasks at very specific times but the fight is at least kinda fun, a watered down version of GU Lao fight if you would.
0:51 “and how well they were implemented across the series”
Shows Zorah
Shade!
I do wonder if Wilds will actually do anything with the Technical Achievements from Zorah, or if the Devs will leave him behind and work on other ideas for Sieges.
An idea for Wilds that's entered my head watching would be a Mohran-esque fight but instead of needing to pull yourself back up with rope, you get saved by your mount and can either get back on the ship or climb on the monster, which is something you could do from the start. For balancing purposes I would personally have the Area you can access from the start be not the best, while a better area can be climbed onto only after breaking a part or two with the Ballista and Cannons. But that's just something that floated into my head and I doubt is matched by the ideas the Devs have.
A BIG video for the BIG monsters!
That's right!
Lao is underrated fr, pretty cool and unique for first and second gen
For sure, people sleep on the GU fight.
@@HeavyWings I don't know if this is a hot take but I hate jhen mohran
I only play 3U so I never fought the other siege monsters
@@nothing-of5ycthat is absolutely a hot take
@@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf Sorry my first time wasn't very fun so that soil my view of him
My favorite siege is still the moh'ran twins, love the theme and the chasing between a ship and a monster. And for me is overall intense and fun at the same time
I agree!
Sad, I was hoping we'd see Gogmazios in this video; Awesome video and really enjoyable though!
My hunting crew and I really like rampages; we all consider them our favourite siege fight. The ability to place the installations yourself, tower defense style, is a really great addition to the siege format. We also really liked jumping into the fray ourselves when the gong was rung; because rampages use normal monsters, you get to content with them like normal monsters (flinching, topples, etc.) whereas a lot of "siege monsters" designed specifically for sieges aren't particularly reactive to your attacks. Plus, hitting a monster with a bit attack and seeing 2000 damage pop up is really satisfying, haha. The different objectives you get in each wave of the fight also serve to spice things up, by changing the sub-objectives you're aiming for each time. I do understand the complaint that rampages are a bit scripted, especially the apex rampages (where the apex will always break through to the last barrier). However, I find most sieges very scripted, so I don't think the scripted nature of the rampages makes them worse than other sieges.
Yeah honestly it seems like rampages are much more multiplayer focused than single player, becoming much more enjoyable with other people helping around
(I personally enjoyed it solo despite this though, so it's not like you can't enjoy rampages to some extent solo)
The Jhen Mohrans are the most memorable fights in video games i have played back then
I have no words its just so epic and emissive
I don't think zorah was a waste, as I hope it's given them a backbone for the devs to develope stronger siege battle or walking locals in the future gens
I dont know zora is literally on rails you cant even really fail it. It just feels tedious
Absolutely
Favourite siege gotta be a mix between dah’ren and GU Lao
Both fights got such a nice atmosphere and tension
Never gonna forget my first dahren fight, played with a friend who got me into the series
And I pulled his rare drop as my first ever carve
Good times
EARTH DRAGONGEM, BABY!
I love Lao Shan Lung's design, I hope he comes back. Though i wouldnt mind making him and the fight a bit faster.
Plus i wanna see just how Fatalis is able to prey on them. It feels like a blue whale and orca situation.
I think the GU fight is fine, there just needs to be minor adjustments to the second area.
The siege battle with Lao Shan Lung is actually what got me into Monster Hunter. Specifically, UA-cam recommended a video of a game I've never seen before where a bunch of guys in multiplayer were running around on a rampart shooting cannons at this big dragon looking thing and I thought "why have I never heard of this game before?" and that spurred looking up more gameplay. I ended up getting MH3U on the 3DS in the following months.
Dah’ren Mohran being your first monster fight is really cool. Mine was Lagombi, since I played the 3u demo before buying it and that was the 'easy' monster. I remember since 3U did not have online play I had to fight Jhen Mohran in the hunter's hub solo. Fighting Dah’ren Mohran with a group of friends was such a gamechanger and exemplifies a lot of what I love about Monster Hunter.
The Zorah Magdoros fight is pretty amazing - in theory. One of the things I loved about the Mohran fights was being able to climb on top of the monster and walk around like it was part of the map and doing damage to specific parts or even mining ores from its back. It really felt like these monsters are so massive they're practically their own ecosystem, and the sheer spectacle of them is another thing entirely. Zorah had the potential to crank this dynamic up to 11: Now you can not only mine materials on its back, you can fight a monster there too. The issue is as you described in the video, in that there's no real reason to fight the one and only monster that shows up on Zorah's back. This could have potentially been sidestepped if, say, there was a unique monster that you could ONLY fight on Zorah Magdoros since it lives there or has a symbiotic or other relation to him.
With the announcement of Monster Hunter Wilds and the speculation that it could potentially be an 'open world' game similar to Breath of the Wild, one could imagine a monster such as Zorah Magdoros just showing up on said world and walking across it. That would probably be way cooler than relegating it to a corridor in the water. I suspect if they revisit this idea again they might not specifically use Zorah Magdoros, but a similar monster you can walk on top of and fight monsters on. Considering how much time and effort went into making Zorah work in terms of standing and fighting on top of it while it's moving and standing up etc. it'd seem a waste to not put that technical achievement to use in future games.
In another video someone had suggested that since airships are in other games perhaps Monster Hunter Wilds could have an airship for a base since it's a new location with no permanent bases yet, but what if people had tamed and domesticated a giant monster of some kind and built their base on its back? You could just walk the monster (and thus your base) to where you're going to be hunting. I don't mean to turn this into Monster Hunter Wilds speculation, I'm just trying to say that Zorah Magdoros (or the mechanics its existence now allows) could potentially be used for some really cool stuff in future games, it was just a big flop in its debut game, and it's a damn shame.
Dual blades in demon mode can safely dance behind the rear right leg of Lao, staggering him this way can make him fall over and lie on the ground for a good 20 over seconds, however, you can only do this about 3 times at max or he will not have enough time to reach the final area when you do it too much, and can cause the quest to be a repel.
I personally hated Shen Gaoren.
When I played Freedom Unite (Village Quests), I got stuck on it no matter what I did, and it made me stop playing the game.
I also got stuck on Lao in Generations Ultimate, but I'm less mad about that one because it was in G Rank and I was alone, and also because I could actually call someone for help then (Heavy Bowgun main arrived in lobby wearing nothing but undies, absolutely destroyed him).
Damn, 1 hour??? This behemoth of a video might just start a siege of its own…
I want to like siege fights. Like, so badly. But I’ve just never vibed with them. I’ve always found them so slow and asinine, despite their incredible spectacle. However, their improvement across the games is noteworthy (even if they would culminate in the form of Zorah Magdaros, the biggest waste of time from both a fight and development standpoint) and even though soloing Lao in GU may have shortened my lifespan by at least 10 years, that fight had so many interesting ideas that it could serve as a blueprint for more sieges to come. Going off of the rampage fights, it seems the devs have learned their lessons from Zorah. It just takes a lot more interactivity to make these fights as great as they should be.
This video was worth the wait and very well put together! It’s remarkable how much you’ve improved with delivering scripts in just under 2 years. Keep it up man!
Really enjoyed this video! I'm glad you decided to deep dive and make it longer :) as someone who joined in on MonHun3rd, I like seeing all the info and even general hubbub that happened during the earlier games. Thank you and keep up the good work!
My biggest problem with the zorah fights is that they feel completely unengaging and not like a challenge.
In the first one it literally doesnt matter what you do, for the second one there is a damage check but its still so easy to reach and you still end up waiting to continue for entire minutes.
It might be a spectacle the first time but after that it is just... idk.. i got into the series with world and thought they have always been like this. Learning siege fights used to be.. well actual fights was almost heartbreaking lmao
This is the exact kind of Mon Hun content I want 10/10
We played Lao Shan on MHFU, you can topple him in Area 2, 3 and 4 if you manage to damage him too much. It also shows that you are peaking damage to him. If you manage to topple him 3 times before he reach area 5, when he reach area 5, one minor damage will kill him.
I'm an old school Monster Hunter enjoyer, started with Tri (so glad the private servers exist now) and played games as they came out. Just recently started going and playing Gen 1 and 2 games, Freedom 1 had a lot of jank that got in the way of enjoying the game. Still finished it (Crimson Fatty solo was hell), absolutely a worthwhile experience, never playing it again. Lao Shan solo is a big part of that.
Freedom Unite is the most fun I've had with Monster Hunter in awhile. Solo and multiplayer through Hunsterverse have both been a blast. The Sieges are super fun with a party. And in Tri, Jhen Mohran with a party is absolutely some of the most fun the series has to offer. Proof of a Hero kicking in on the Dragonator in that fight is one of the best moments the series has to offer. I don't think another fight in the series quite conveys the feeling of fighting a gigantic monster quite the way Jhen does. Dalamadur more feels like a disconnected background element coming into the foreground to hit, and Zorah Magdaros feels like attacking a building.
banger video Heavy, amazing watch, and amazing work as usual
Thank you! Hope you enjoyed it!
Jhen and Dahren Mohran is my favorite siege fights ever in any MH game
Hopefully we get to fight them again in next generation MH
Hopefully!
A Hallowed Jehn fight in Wilds where it uses the electrical storms to empower itself would be so cool!
I think any of the Mohrans would be really cool in wilds, they deserve a comeback and I think wilds would be a good opportunity
I've been playing MH4U for years, and ONLY NOW I learn the Gogmazios arena has a mobile cannon. I always just hit it normally.
If I remember right, Lao-Shang Lung has several points on the map where you could jump on its back as it passed before reaching area 5. This gave early access to the back carves and was also a good place to attack and bomb in order to break the true weak spot the back.
There was also a tell for when you reached the damage cap for an area: Lao would speed up.
in reality the true weakness of shen garden is inside the shell in form of his tiny giantic butt. it's actually easier to reach than the face and you can hit it with most large weapons when gaoren is crouching and deal massive damage instead of hitting the legs and you will kill him way faster than going legs into face
No wonder I seem to like Lao more than most others I've only played the GU fight. Another Heavy Wings Banger you love to see it!
Great Video!
Long rant about the "future" of siege monsters/ideas to make them better incoming
I personally really like the idea behind siege monsters, but they can sometimes play lackluster.
I feel like the mohrans are the best general template for a siege fight. 2 phases, the first being more about cannons and ballistae, while still offering direct opportunities and the second being more about melee/normal weapons, while still allowing the use of siege weapons.
To modernize the fights you could make the first phase allow for more mounting opportunities and maybe add more variance in the siege buildings, similar to rise. For the second phase you could have the mohran mostly fight the players, while sometimes throwing high damage attacks at the ship, similar to Ibushi during the rampage.
Another thing could be, that the first phase mainly is about weakenig the mohran. Breaking its horns/arms/mouth so that it is weaker during the second phase. And even when the mohran destroys the ship during the first phase, you still get a chance to take it down, but have less weapons/ a stronger opponent.
Most siege monsters could be "fixed" by making the first half about weakening them and the second half about killing them, while also sometimes needing to interrupt their "breakthrough" attacks. Of course dealing enough damage/getting enough breaks skips the remaining first phase to safe time/sanity of grinders.
Of course, not all fights can follow this formula. The mohran fights can very easily be split between 2 areas, as you are on a ship and then you aren't. With Lao and Shen you'd maybe could have the arena be constructed with a "killzone" in which you want lao to be, because there the dragonator and other weapons are. So you need to get him to move to that path by being annoying. The whole arena could look like a crescent moon with a circle in the middle. Lao walks on the half circle, trying to reach the end. The moon is segmeted by gates, and each segmet is connected to the circle. You need to deal enough damage to lao, so that he goes to the circle, where you can kill/repel him. If you don't deal enough damage during the first moon segment, he breaks through and you need to fall back, like the rampages. Once he reaches the end, because you couldn't steer him to the circel area, you need to fight him there. To make the kill zone more interesting, you could have him still try to take down a watchtower armed with a splitting wyvern shot or a similar structure in the middle. Lao would mainly target the hunters, but you still need to defend your tower.
In essence a mix of the GenU Lao, Gogmazios and the "Final Showdown"
Generally the only monster I don't really have any idea to salvage would be Zorah, simply because it is too big, so you can't really have the balance of "just big enough that it can be walked on, but small enough where your weapons have an effect".
I think it's incredibly sad that Sunbreak didn't have any returning or original siege fights since I think the base game laid an incredible groundwork for that. The revisions to the siege weapons themseves which made boarding them way more engaging and the wirebug's ability to make you going on top of monster seemlessly would have for ancredible fight against a giant like Dalamadur, Gogmazios or Ahtal-Ka or siege fights like the Jhens or Lao. It's such a shame and waste of potential. I mean at least Narwa and Gaismagorm (also Amatsu to a slighter degree) gave us a taste of that...
Perhaps but I'm fine with no sieges if they were able to put that time to good use elsewhere.
Hitting Jhen with the dragonator is one of the most satisfying moments in monster hunter
Sucks that the one game we could've actually done an AOT in a siege battle, we didn't have a siege battle
Great recap on the series' sieges! Though I think it's also worth noting not only how but when most of these hunts were made available!
I can't speak for the exact specifics of 1, G or Dos, but these massive fights were initially exclusive to the online city hubs. For Tri's Jhen Mohran they would appear sporadically as part of cycling batches of event quests and would coincide with sandstorms that would engulf the city of Loc Lac, including changing the usual rotations of music for one matching Jhen's approach. These event quests were also made available for all ranks of hunters and generally presented as a gold rush opportunity to mine from Jhen while attempting to hunt them. The lowest ranked players wouldn't be capable of getting a repel, but with some stronger players mixed in a party and with everyone well coordinated on the fight there was a solid opportunity to complete the hunt. This also meant the second phase wasn't present until reaching high rank, and at best managing to keep the boat intact would result again in a repel before reaching end game gear. This gave Jhen's hunts many layers as you progressed through Loc Lac's ranks, giving many milestones each time you'd next encounter them and really hammered home the purpose of event quests bringing together all ranks of players to engage and cooperate, learning and mastering the hunt.
It's understandable with the handheld games of the series being more well known before World, but a lot of players didn't seem to grasp the intention of World's rotating event quests, and maybe that could be considered another failing of Zorah Magdaros. Although I unfortunately didn't get around to playing World Iceborne until after support had ended, so maybe they had a richer experience than myself arriving late to the party 😂
Once you made the transition to Zorah I completely forgot he even existed and jumped directly to kulve xD
Proof of a hero playing when Loa reaches the final area will always make me fight to the fullest and it also makes me feel like a hero
I didn’t mind the siege fights due to the weapons you can get and the sharpness and damage from the monsters in them except for some that don’t give anything except items
Jhen Mohran also has a unique repel only fight in MH3's low rank during the sandstorm were he doesn't have a phase 2 and different attack patterns.
Was hoping to see Kulve, Fatalis, Gaismagorm, and the rampage mode from Rise.
I guess most of those don't fall under your definition of a siege but they don't feel like mormal fights either.
I think the Rampage mode in Rise does fit under your definition though and would have been cool to see more here as I enjoy long videos but will gladly watch your next one.
I think siege fights kinda fundamentally clash with monster hunter tbh. The core of the game is built around the insanely deep combat system that involves positioning and timing, so having all of these walking/cannon reloading sims doesn't add much to the game for me. What they do offer is great spectacle, but that wears off after 1 or 2 hunts. If it were up to me, they'd be exclusively in the background like the snail from rise or be more like regular fights like kulve or gog
I do see where you're coming from, and iirc that's where a lot of Gog's initial popularity came from; a giant monster that you fight normally.
I just want to mention the plesioth level hip check on 6:40 made me spit my drink
An hour of content let's goooooo
To specify for Monster Hunter G it's only the village Lao quest that has a 50 minute timer, which is unlocked by completing all Village Quests (including hidden quests) and every training school quest with every weapon.
I think frontier has one too
You can climb up Dah’rens arm after breaking it in phase 1. Only works when he extends it but it’s a second way to get to the front half
A fix to the Zorah siege should be as soon as the Hunters meet the requirements for each phase, the mission should automatically move forward. So mine and break whatever parts you need then proceed to destroy the magma cores.
Maybe in the future they can bring Zorah back and improve it by using a smaller, younger one that's faster and more aggressive with a differently shaped shell. It's a really cool concept, walking on a huge monster. And it's amazing how they got all that to work.
After fighting Lao a billion times to help people rank up in GU, I kinda started to like the guy
No Ceadeus or Dala? Kulve and Safi are missing too when they're the *only official sieges* instead of getting called that by fans?
Notes with GenU Lao
Through my experience grinding the quest solo, Lao will always hit the 1st fortress at least once prior to him moving to area 2
The cannon in area 2 can be kept on the bridge until the nearby cannon supply is drained, from there it can be moved to near the fortress
While it’s hard to time out, hitting Lao with the dragonator while his forelimbs are holding the fortress and him dragging his head can cause a new stagger. This stagger leaves his mouth open, revealing a 80 hit zone for his head. Other spot that’s “good” is his back at 60? Idk exactly
Never played 4 or tri so I never realized how good both the Morahn fights are 🤩
I hope they get remastered one day so everyone can play them!
Siege Fights are so cool but often have so much missed potential. Hopefully Wilds has a good one in it
I miss Lao shan lung I hope it appears next installment
zorah's got stalagmites as well that do damage than stalagtites much less of them but ye also a few breakable parts besides magma cores you can hit on its bakc (they look like big rocks of sort) so you dont get bored. also if it does certain attacks(headbutting or grabbing the barrier) it can be remounted during the attacking with cannons phase. a 4th magma core is its nose ballista can hit it but its better to remount and utterly weaken it.
i find it funny that all in all zorah is reduced to guiding lands scraps( a skeleton located in the guiding lands and in rise's frost islands)
I really hope Zora Magdaraos comes back, but revamped.
If the fight is largely done outside of his body, but you can find openings to jump on his body and start smacking the lava cores to help increase the damage your ballistae and canons do to him, you could have a really cool fight!
19:04 i always wondered what is that city ? is not loc lac since that tall monument and that coliseum thingy is not from there, like fr im curious
Don't know if anyone said this already but you can fight regular Lao Shan Lung in the offline mode of DOS, near the endgame, after you unlock Chameleos I believe. His quest wild randomly pop.
11:32 he looks like some kind of alien tripod
I feel like Zora Magdaros is to big for big scale fight. I know fight big kaiju who size like godzila looks cool. But the down side the movement will slow and only relaying on fire wepony "bazooka, arrow etc"
And nergigante is something not necessary is kind a proof of lack of contain in Zora fight.
I actually liked zorah magdaros from monster hunter world, even though he's slow, I still think he's a great elder dragon
Heavywings fun fact theres a youtuber by the name of zanny and when he played monster hunter world for the first time and when he is doing the quest "a collossal task" when nergigante appear he actually got lost on zorahs back and when nergigante leave he said the following: "hahahaha it f***ing left i bored it into submition😂" yes he actually swears
Cool lore... Lao is actually trying to get away from Fatalis, and the whole point of the quest is to make it turn in a different direction by force.
CR-Volcanic has a video called "let's make Lao Shan Lung fun", where he explains to do exactly as the video title says.
i recommend watching.
The bad part about lao shan lung was that all the best endgame weapons required multiple of his rare drops (ruby etc). This meant you had to kill him multiple times, which took very long and was really boring and your weren't even guaranteed to get what you wanted. I remember just using (felyne) heroics with the akantor bow eventually to farm him. However this did so much damage, that he would flinch too much to even reach the last area where he could be killed, thus failing the quest even though he was actually at 1 hp. I also remember using a paintball to kill him in the last area because of this. The result however was, that I literally AFK'd his quest until he entered the last zone, and still killing him with heroics in under 10 minutes. It was a really memorable quest for sure, but imo for all the wrong reasons. If his materials wouldn't have been so important for endgame weapons, it probably would have been a lot better. My theory is that most "fans" of lao shan never really reached the endgame of freedom 2/unite.
Moh'ran will always have a special place in my heart.
I Miss Shun Gaoren he sould come back in wilds he was cool
You've heared of Lao Shan Lung, Lao Shan Heart, and Lao Shan Liver. But have you heard of Lao Shan Pancreas? he's personaly my favorite Lao
6:45 The Fortress is actually part of Minegarde, not the town of schrade. Schrade (the town) was destroyed by Fatalis. It's where the castle was. Minegarde is the capital of west schrade. After Fatalis destroyed the capital the kingdom split in two. West and East Schrade. East Schrade has much colder climates and is where the swamps of gen 1 and 2 are. West Schrade is where Kokoto and Minegarde are as well as Forest and Hills, the Jungle and the desert. I think the volcanic belt is neutral ground like the area where Dundorma is.
I think they should bring back some of these with the new mechanics and make them more aggressive. Would make them way better as long as dont do zorah magdaros thing lol altho arch tempered zorah is def better than base one
Okay, I'm seeing where a couple of fights in FFXIV got their inspiration from (Bismarck and Steps of Faith - Trial).
I’m so sad that Zorah was a poorly done fight, especially after hearing how much work went into them. Easily my favorite elder dragon by design and he deserves better! It’s not going to happen, but seeing more of Zorah or even a similar species like what happened with the mohrans, giving us a new Magdaros
If only Lao-Shan was to fight back, the siege battle would have been fun.
Lmfao, honestly during my first ever playthrough of MHW and the first zorah quest, I ended up getting totally lost while on his back while Nergigante was active, and I was lost for so long that it just left before I could get there
"The portable games don't bother with these"
Freedom Unite has Lao and Shen, Portable 3rd has Jhen, and of course GU has Lao as well.
Good video overall, but this part is pretty off-base. It'd be more accurate to say the portable games don't generally implement *brand new* siege fights, instead preferring to reuse sieges from the mainline games.
scrapping zorah that required an entire year of work would have gave the developers enough time to develop underwater combat in a decent way
change my mind
I'll be honest, I completely forgot about the one-off mid story Siege with Zorah XD. The Event quest wasn't really memorable either and I had no idea that repelling Nirgigante was required, I just went at him thinking it would be quicker to repel him myself rather than wait XD.
Also I think the Fatalis fight in Iceborne could be an honourable mention, though it's not really a Siege fight it's kinda set up like one.
Rampages were awesome until you realized how risk free they were
Sorry for noticing a mistake around 5 minutes in Lao in MH2 is not online only he can be fought in village, Ashen however is online only in MH2.
Don't apologise for noticing mistakes, that's on me.
I will like to note that you can fight Lao solo in MH2 PS2. He appears when the wyverian smith shows up in town.
Some extra notes on Zorah: The first Urgent when you fight him is actually the first appearance of some higher grade ores, so I think the long waiting period is an intentional decision to let players mine. But yeah, it's too long a wait, even when hanging out with newcomers on the Urgent there's always a point where they get bored, ask "ok what now" and I have to break the news to them.
You can also climb atop Zorah during the final phase of the real fight, such as when he punches the barrier, you can run across it, climb on and even stand on his head to try and break his horn magmacore. I am _so_ frustrated that it's such a pointless feature, because it's so fucking cool.
Oh yeah, and it's a bit weird that you mentioned Shen's corpse in GU and Zorah's in Rise, but I didn't catch a reference to Zorah's corpse (and MR armorset via gathering) being incorporated into the Guiding Lands, which is a pretty cool cause and effect between basegame and the expansion, especially for Fivers who didn't have quite the same recognition factor with Dalamadur in the Rotten Vale.
Happy to see so many Rampage enjoyers in the comment section. It absolutely blows my mind that there are people who despise, not just dislike, but bear vitriolic hatred towards Rampages. They are so unambiguously a massive step up from earlier sieges, which often actually do have the problem of being cool concepts that are absolute slogs to play through.
As someone else mentioned, they're often incredibly scripted, which makes subsequent replays less and less engaging. Rampages were way more dynamic, with each monster "unit" configuration offering an opportunity for a different approach.
You could not pay me to hunt Lao again. At least Jhen Mohran had spectacle. But the Rampages were actually fun diversions that offered a change of pace, even if they were put on the backburner in sunbreak and the rewards were rendered obsolete. The rewards for other sieges are not enough to motivate me to do them. Having fun in rampages is its own reward.
Rampages are definitely better than something like Zorah Magdaros but holy shit are they still painful. Just bc it's more stimulating and there's more stuff to do, doesn't mean its good. MH is very much so based on positioning and timing, which just doesn't happen in Rampages. All you do is wail on them while they hit the gate, and then at the same time there's a million different monsters taking up your screen while doing so, so you can't even see anything. They made what was already a chore, into more of a chore. Again, just bc you have a more active and dynamic role, doesn't mean its good.
The best part about older game sieges, even tho it's a pain in the ass just watching waiting for them to get where they need to get to, was the spectacle. Meanwhile in Rampages you just have a bunch of random monsters running around with no rhyme or reason, and especially in solo, this feels really stupid. So now there's not only no spectacle, but you're also heavily forced to engage with the quest.
If I wanted a change of pace in the game, I would go gather. Something that actually contributes to the feeling of "the hunt". I don't want to be forced to play tower defense in an action RPG. Especially in solo, sure you have auto installments, but there's little point in actually using installments other than dragonator and wyvernfire. Other than that, it feels like you're just running around doing busy work waiting for the quest to end. Sure the early sieges have this problem too, but now I'm forced to engage with something I already don't enjoy.
The Tri one is just so badass
the only one time I enjoy lao siege was when I did the no weapon run (artillery only) in GU, but then again waiting him to walk in front of the cannon could probably let me start a family or two
I loved the original Lao Shan Lung fight in the first game! I find that most if not all of the negativity about it only comes from it being the in the first game and people comparing it to the many game that have been released since. Remember the first game and other early title had many extreme limitation in terms of game play.
I've been doing a new playthrough of Rise with a different weapon and I've been having so much fun with Rampages (All solo).
I honestly do not understand the complaints about being overwhelmed when you have so many installations available with villagers that can pull their own weight and deter monsters by themselves or with a little help. And I don't know how you get bored when you're always running around with something to do and managing everything.
It's an ego boost placing them all how I want to and then seeing them successfully drive back monsters while I work somewhere else on the map. And the mounted weapons are so fun to use.
I think it would've been cool if they had the the time to expand it the story to helping multiple different villages in each of the first 5 locales so you could then have a change of scenery as well as include monsters that don't appear in Rampages like Goss Harag or Somnacanth.
The only things I think that needed to be improved were variety, monster health, and the durability of the final gate. Even with installation upgrades, some of the monsters seem to take so many hits to make them retreat if you use the cannons or ballistae. And the final gate wasn't under much threat unless the Apexes or Ibushi were involved. I did some Ibushi Rampages a few weeks ago and he almost busted the whole thing, the gate icon was literally crumbling.
I love the excitement the Apexes and Ibushi bring at the end and how they bust through everything. The named characters being available to come in and actually help is nice, and they're all pretty useful.
13:27 “Mr crabs walking sounds”
Was surprised to see Rampages excluded, but conclusion gave me the info I needed.
Ngl, I feel rampages managed to do siege better than most, although unless you're fending off an apex or Ibushi, you ain't really gonna have a hard time, and Ibushi ain't even the hardest one.
like most sieges though, it's definitely something I enjoy better with friends, it allows to divide tasks, and generally I'll always let my pals do the first zone while I prepare zone 2 so we get some installations ready from the start.
On the matter of the video, Zorah Magdaros was kinda fine the first time, but you won't catch me trying it more, it's just kinda boring.
GU Lao Shan though, I really want to kill one again with my friends, he was a lot of fun.
I have 3U to do eventually, this means having to fight the Jhen Mohrans alone, so that's... nor gonna be fun.
Jhen Mohran in 3U isn't too bad on your own in High Rank as long as you're competent. Even when I was a little scrub I was able to repel him consistently. You need to be a bit better for the G-Rank ones though, especially Normal Jhen since they give you a 50 minute time limit IIRC so you gotta be _really_ on top of dishing out damage with your weapons once he gets close enough for you to chop at his neck/belly. His massive attacks are designed so that they're spaced far enough apart that you're not going to be caught with your gong un-ringable or your binders un-shootable as long as you're being smart with how you use them.
I found it kind of fun when I was younger, optimizing when to gather ballista ammo vs when to shoot at him so I could maximize part breaks and damage.
Yes this. With friends, rampages can actually be alright. However what happens when the game is a few years old, there's no one playing, and you don't have friends to play with? It becomes more of a chore than it's worth and you're running around like a headless chicken doing busy work. It was something that was heavily designed around multiple players and didn't really take into account solo play, and for that reason I cannot call them good.
The largest monster in Monster Hunter history is actually not Zorah Magdaros, but Dalamadur (or Laviente if we count spin-offs).
They are long but Zorah is likely heavier and just bigger mass in general
In my opinion, Kulve Taroth and Safi'jiiva ARE siege quests, but not in the traditional sense. They're offensive sieges, where you're there one who is battling your way to defeat the monster, wearing them down until you slay them. The older ones are defensive sieges, where you're the one defending a settlement. Really, the difference is just who is attacking and who is defending, but they're both still sieges in the fact you or they are wearing down something, whether structure or monster.
To me if any of them is coming in wilds, it better be like in mh online where you fight hoard of small monster while fighting the big one
That sounds like a bit like how rampages ended up, wonder how those quests were.
@@HeavyWings you can find them on youtube by writing "monster hunter online shen gaoren fight" which feature the "actual" latest appearence of the giant enemy crab and make it better (even tho online is not a canon game in the series)
I just remember being a kid stuck on the shen…. Idk why honestly
I think a shen gaoren with a zorah skull could unironically go hard
I miss lao shan lung so much, sure it wssnt an over the top flashy fight but as a monster in general Lao is still one of my favorites