The Trainer
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2024
- In this episode of The Trainer, Motor Age Technical Editor, Brandon Steckler discusses the importance of locating the root cause of battery and alternator failures. As we all know, battery and alternator failures are common on virtually all makes and models.
Many don’t realize that the electronics within the alternator take the brunt of the damage when an underlying charging circuit fault exists. The alternator must work extra hard to charge the battery to compensate for these circuit faults. As a result, the temperature of the alternator's electronic components gets too high and causes damage. This results in repeat alternator failures that seem to go on and on. Usually, the alternator is labeled as an inferior component and is replaced under warranty. The problem is that the true underlying fault is not always located, and the process repeats itself.
Follow Brandon as he uses the Automotive Test Solutions eScopeELITE4 and a current probe to evaluate the charging system circuit dynamically. This quick 3-minute test locates underlying voltage drops in the battery charging circuit, can be applied to all vehicles using an alternator, and requires no disassembly to perform.
#Diagnostics #Batterydiagnositcs #Chargingsystemdiagnostics #Alternatordiagnostics #Thedatadoesntlie #Motoragemagazine #Motoragetraining #Thetrainer #ATS #Automotivetestsolutions #Voltagedrop
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This is a gem!!! Another feather in the hat! Thank-you Brandon!!!
Thanks, My pleasure, Paul!
I think there should be a part 2 explaining BMS and alternators that now have a clutch.
There will be many more videos to come. I will try to accommodate what is desired as often as possible.
I'm in love!!!
This video, like many others you put out (most of them I should say) is going into my diagnostics folder for future reference.
Thanks again Brandon, I get to be a better tech every time I watch your material.
Mine too.
Excellent! Thank you so much!
Excellent! Thank you so much!
Great video. We have to remember the word “system.” It’s a charging “system” or a starting “system”. It matters.
Correct! This technique address of the entire system. The test exhibited is a preliminary check to see if it is working properly or it is not working properly.
The following diagnostic step depends on the result of this test
Great tutorial. Alternator after alternator after alternator sounds scary. And i know such cases. But most backyard mechanics still don't have DSO. Not to mention scope like Hantek or Micsig, because most mechanics are saving buck for someday to buy a good scope like Pico or ATS. I have tip for such mechanics - when you start the car check for voltage drop between alternator B+ post (directly on the stud!!, not the nut or the terminal) and between the Battery + post.(directly on the battery post , not the terminal) Anything over 0.5volt or 500millivolts is bad and there's resistance somewhere. Excuse me but i use "rule of thumb" i know about 10years ago, so maybe rule of thumb of 500 millivolt voltage drop on the newer vehicle is high and the number should be around 250-300millivolts.
In addition to checking voltage drop on the positive side of the charging circuit, they should also check voltage drop on the negative side of the circuit between alternator case and battery's negative post.
Like you said: the voltmeter probes need to be placed directly on the posts to get a true voltage drop reading. By placing the voltmeter probes on the nuts, washers, or cable terminals, you might miss the problem area.
Your half way there check the ground of the generator to B -
Love it ! That was extremely helpful !! Thanks a million !!! I got my training hit !
Have a fantastic weekend !! 👊🏼 🔥
Excellent! Thank you
I love the way you explain things, it’s awesome and very knowledgeable ❤
Thank you! Im so glad it makes sense to you.
Very informative video. Thanks again Brandon.!
Thanks, Arthur!
Great video, I also really appreciate you used an amp clamp that doesn't automatically do the math because it demonstrates you can use any combination of clamp and scope/meter to do this test.
When training my apprentices I always show them the fancy way with my expensive compatible matching tools but also show them how to do the same test using the most cost-effective tools possible.
I don't want my guys buying tools they don't need, the knowledge comes first and buy the tools as you need them. Tools that speed it along are nice but not required.
Thank you! You and I have grown up the same way. My mentor did not want me using the tools as a crutch. If I couldn’t explain to him how the tool functioned and how to interpret the test results, I wasn’t allowed to use the fancy tools that made the job easier
Thanks Brandon! A lot of good info on the battery and charging system.
Thank you!
Excellent video thank you for sharing!
It's my pleasure, thank you!
My pleasure!
A DSO is not necessary to do this. You can do this with a DC Clamp-on ammeter and a voltmeter/multimeter.
He did the test in meter mode
@@user-kk2bo4de8m You're absolutely right, but I was just pointing it out for beginners that might think you need a DSO.
This is correct. In fact, that is why I chose the meter function of the eScopeELITE4.
Good stuff, thanks for taking the time to educate. So is the pcm monitoring lower voltage from the battery cable somewhere after the resistance and that is telling the alternator to increase the duty cycle to try and bring the voltage up? Seems as though the post at the back of the alternator might see, 14.5v or so, and may be at the battery post. It reads 13. So is the computer seeing 13 V when it wants to see 14.5v and it then commands the duty cycle higher to the alternator?
Hello, thanks for the great question. although vehicle charging configurations vary, this vehicle uses no current monitor. The current flow will determine the voltage sensed. The alternator will output the current to supply the fuse boxes and replenish the battery. Once the battery is "full of electrons" the current through it will diminish simply because its internal resistance increases.
So even if there were no corrosion/extra resistance in the circuit between the alternator and battery but just a sulfated battery. The battery would act as a heavy load due to low internal resistance and cause the alternator to output excessive current which would then lead to premature alternator failure?
Yes, but keep this in mind. The “current”
Is the result. The alternator is creating voltage (electrical potential/pressure).
The resulting current is dependent upon the resistance in the circuit (in this case, we are talking about the battery charge circuit).
“IF” the alternator duty cycle did non increase (remained at a 50% duty cycle, for instance) the high charge current would lower the alternator voltage output.
The increase in duty cycle command “maintains” the desired voltage when current flow increases.
This is why the electronics get hot.
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying👍🏻
I see what you did there with the title of the video 😂😅
😋😎
Tutorial outstanding: I can't wait for next week training video
QUICK-WITTED, SHARP, SHREWD BRANDON STECKLER MOTOR AGE
👍
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 22:16PM Good Evening, my mentor
BRANDON STECKLER MOTOR AGE
Thanks, Nick!
Exactly !
Hi B. Like you read my mind. I have a vehicle here with a high charging rate. Battery and alternator was replaced. Still the battery light is on. The customer is confused why he is seeing 15.5v when he checked it. Will use your testing methods. Thanks again
Was that 15.5 volts at the battery or the alternator?
@@bernardocisneros4402 both.from the battery post and the Alternator B post while idle. Battery light is on. With the auto light flashing. It has the start stop features. Battery and alternator was replaced. Three pin alternator.
@@DJ-tn7vj I don't know the year, make, and model, but knowing it's a 3 pin alternator, I'm goin to assume one wire is for the lamp, another for sensing battery voltage, and the third is +12V from ignition. I would do voltage drop tests on the positive and negative sides of the charging circuit. I'm sure you know how to do this, but just in case you haven't done it in a while, look above at Petar443 comment and my reply to his comment.
I would also do a voltage drop test on the battery sensing wire. Turn off the car and turn the key to the off position. Disconnect the 3 pin connector and check for voltage on the 3 wires. The only wire with voltage on it, will be the battery sensing wire. Do a VD test on it between the connector and positive battery post.
While car is running, disconnect the 3 pin connector from the alternator, and see if the light goes out. It should go out. If it doesn't go out, then the problem will be between the light and the connector. The wire for the lamp might be shorting out. If it does go out, and all 3 voltage drop tests were good (good voltage drop tests are about 100 to 300 millivolts or less on each leg) and you verified battery is good and fully charged, then it can only be a bad alternator. This only applies to alternators that aren't controlled by PCM. If the charging is controlled by PCM, then it could be something else. Since I don't know they year, make, and model, I can't say.
I consider a battery good when the battery open circuit voltage is 12.4 volts or above and it doesn't drop below 10V when you load test it by drawing half of its CCA with a carbon pile tester or when cranking the engine for a second or two.
What's the year, make and model?
@@DJ-tn7vj What is the year, make, and model?
@@bernardocisneros4402 Nissan Note HR12. The vehicle was in a small collision. Battery light is on.
Hi Brian I’m wondering if I can use a non intrusive clamp on amp meter and a volt meter ps I have been watching your videos for a while thank you
Read the comments. You'll find the answer to your question.
So long as you test as I have, you can certainly implement those tools