No bracing, cabinet resonance, I mean, scientifically and logically, I do believe his measurments, no obligatory A/B test here. But yeah, could be a good idea though. Take a good flat RME Babyface and 2 Earthworks M32r's and then do proper recording, i'd be in.
Agree. Hobbs, Ron, you know there are a crap ton of these out “there” in the wild. With sound clips added and a few people doing the upgrade kit and (assumingely) signing it’s praises, this “kit” could become the default for this line. Now all of the sets that shipped abroad WITH their existing sound warts, well, those will be what they are, but dang fellas, getting some WOM (word of mouth) energy behind this kit could really do some wonders in gaining exposure to a whole world of folks who either didn’t have much if any awareness of GR and/or the right improvements to THIS kit may help open their eyes to all of the other offerings you guys have. “Just sayin’ “
Please, keep doing pre 2000 stuff. Speakers from the 1990's, 1980's, and even the 1970's were awesome!! I used to drool over them, when I went into a Good Guys or Circuit city back in the day. Service merchandise & BEST products had a dedicated speaker room, which was awesome to visit!!! I miss those day!!!
Another great video sir. Using the midrange as a fill is so often rewarding as you have proven. These presentations are so informative and, for lifetime audio nuts like me, downright exciting. I've been experimenting over 60 years, but without your expertise, and I may have to get back into it after learning so much from you. Many thanks for all your hard work.
i remember having 4 of these driven off a kenwood 9600 receiver at age 18 and thinking this is the best sound i've ever heard! i'm double that now and don't think i could stand them stock for long, learning is fun
What a treat it is having Danny do this service for us. To actually pay someone for there time to do this would be quite expensive I’m sure. I’m in Canada so sending a speaker is not cheap however I did send my crossovers to Danny to throw together a kit of higher quality parts equal value for my CerwinVega! Speakers and the process and results were allot of fun. I highly recommend if able to, to take advantage of this service from GR Reserch and send him your speaker. It’s a fun hobby upgrading! Thanks GR Team!
A typical 1970 Japanese big box speaker with lots of drivers they never sounded that good but looked impressive what Richie did is amazing and well worth spending the upgrade on another fantastic job !
As a kid, I would go over to my buddy's house and listen to jazz on his HPM-40s. It was a fun speaker, but it didn't image well, and certainly changed a lot when going off-axis. For people who have fond memories of the unique sound of these speakers, and want them to be more like an audiophile speaker, this is the ideal upgrade.
I just ordered the kit, great work was just in the process of fixing my just bought hpm 100 set. I owned them in the late 80ties and sold them in the 90ties. Got them back but new about the filter problems. Was concidering the mv labs filter but you had some better thinking and experience on it. Cant wait to start building the filters. Also got my hands on hpm900 backplates to keep the org filters original. Will also do the bracing of the box. Will come back with the results.
@@veegoss1 yes i got the whole set from danny i also reinforced the inside acording to his advice. The hpm now sound much better the ringing is gone they stage perfectly you can listen the whole day to them with my high end dac and my vintage recordplayer setup. They also have depth now and as danny says they really can compete with modern speakers but with paper cone vintage vibe. Its really a great great upgrade one of the best. Also bass is much tighter than ever heard on a hpm. The original coils are way to thin. Will try to add some pictures dont now if that is possible else send me a pm.
@@morlidor no, they did not listen with their ears, they listened to the "high end" stuff from the brands like Pioneer, JBL and Yamaha, that's why these fossils were "good". They "listened" to prestige...
I've got a pair of hpm 100s got the hpm40s as well. My experience with them is very good. Solid low end, Lotta detail and clarity, having a hard time believing all your negativity.
Well I think I've already had crossover work done on mine. Different style terminals on these which makes me think somebody's done it already. Probably why I can't hear what you're talking about
Very surprising for me that a correction that good is possible on this big speaker. I thought there would be not much to do about the off-axis response. Good job.
I've watched enough of these videos that I can predict some of the off axis response based on the speaker location and cross over points. Soon as I saw it I thought "wow, the worse off axis response I have seen". Anyone, a fun video and an amazing transformation.
Awesome Transformation! We always put our Speakers up on Cement Blocks with thick Rubber mats and a Towel - Not like Today's Stands but really helped back in the day , when we were under the "effects" LOL
These old speakers have a lot of potential but we must invest a good deal of time and money to make them sound as they should! Thanks for all that engineering knowledge you provide!
I love that you are tackling these old speakers! Love love it. Vintage JBL's? I particularly would love to see you do the L-222 Disco or L-220. I have a pair and not that far from you. Maybe we can plan a drop off/visit.
I never had HPM 100’s but in the 80’s I had set of HPM 900’s. Good speakers overall. I really wanted the HPM 1100 but couldn’t afford them back then lol.
My first set of speakers were Pioneer HPM-40's, the baby brother to these ones. A guy in my dorm had the 100's. I lusted after them, but couldn't afford them. I replaced my 40's many years later with Klipsch Heresy II's. That was a mistake. You did a great job transforming these. If they were mine, i would have even built a new box for them, lining the drivers up properly and mounting them flush, but i understand that's outside the scope of what you do here.
Hello. This was a good video. I really like the videos you make where you shed light on a big and common problem when it comes to factory made speakers. I'm talking about the quality of them which is often not that good
I know a bit of the history of these HPMs and own almost all the versions that were produced. The 100s were designed to sit very high, well above ear level and I learned this at the time they were new, speaking to Pioneer Australia. They installed 4 sets of these in a record shop, with a ton of their amps, etc and I remember the guys telling me that there were designed to sit very high up, not at ear level. Just putting it out there. Id love to see a set of HPM 150s looked at ot the HPM1100s and even the 100s predecessor, the HPM900. I have them and more, if you would like to come to Australia 😂 Great video and as usual, great info. Thanks
We did have someone call us asking about the HPM150s but I don't know if they'll be willing to send one for evaluation. But if we get sent one, well definitely take a look at it.
Hey Danny, great video and nice to see you measure these. They sound as they look. I'm curious for all the people asking for A/B's, perhaps prior to redesigning the crossover you could record a short 30 second segment using some royalty free music, and after the redesign is finished record the end result. Changes like this are so huge that even a cell phone recording would resolve the differences. Cheers!
Greatest transformation of an iconic and popular speaker that I always considered unlistenable. Now they look and sound great... like they should have when they were made but didn't.
I got a pair of the 100w version a year ago, and messed around with the crossovers a bit and replacing with new polyprop caps. Until any further serious crossover overhaul, I found they greatly improved just by changing the woofer lowpass inductor from 0.6 to 0.9mH
Well, a flat response doesn't necessarily tell the story of how the speaker sounds...it is balanced for sure. But that doesn't mean it will sound better than a new
Better than a new Klipsch? Do u mean before the upgrade? LOL. You’re setting the bar rather low, don’t u think? But truly one of his greatest achievements to date..
you did a fabulous job. before/after i know for a fact that a lot of these used (without upgrades) ended up in Vietnam. Because people posted video on YT.
Thank you for picking this speaker and making the video! Everyone seems to love these old HPM-100s so seeing what they put out originally is really interesting! What you have done to them is amazing and I would love to hear the final product! I have a pair of HPM-900s with the graphite drivers that I would love to have reworked by you.
I owned two sets in the day, one set was the clear acrylic cabinets. I hung the wood set high up in a room with 12 ft ceilings. I replaced the mid range driver and that got rid of a lot of the harshness.
Great Danny and Hobbs. So great that Americans dare to send their loved vintage speakers to GR, for a new life, to the next generation. Recycling. But we get to enjoy them for a bit, again. Just imagine how many 70-80 ish speakers there are out there.
Totally agree about upgrading these vintage speakers, even rebuilding them ( most were made with chip ( particle) board yuks ) Unfortunately its the then sound of the models that people get attached to. Upgrade them like the HPM-100 but you will lose the sound that they think is great. No doubt the sound will change for the better but I love the sound the way it is !!! that's what your up against. Hopefully after this video, more people with vintage speakers eg: JBL's will make the jump.
Yesterday I saw a youtube video comparing this HPM-100 to the JBL L-112, I had the L-112 and repaired the HPM and I must say there are a lot of HPM-100 lovers but this speaker I assure that is the most colored beloved speaker ever, now in your video I understand why it is so colored stock condition, you did an amazing job with the new design crossover, now looks more like the L-112 which only have the caveat of a ringing about 1.8 khz, I will appreciate if you test a good stock condition JBL L-112 to confirm my appreciation, thanks buddy
Well done. Have been fooling with speakers since this was a new product. Worked at GRT/Chess/Janus Records and had access to their studio monitors (KLH). Learned from their engineers and been rebuilding the odd speaker pair ever since. This run down was what we all needed back in the day 😊 OBTW - Soviet radar caps make good audio caps, when you can find them ... 🙃
I watched a couple of these videos now, I would really like to see you do the actual upgrades. Make the new crossovers, make the alterations to the cabinet, etc
This is my first time watching your channel. It was very interesting to hear your take on those older speakers. I think it's pretty obvious the older speakers just don't have the build quality and modern performance features. This technology has come a long way, I think the older speakers have the "Vintage Sound," which in today's speak is not great.
Very cool. Working with vintage mass market speakers myself, I can definitely appreciate what you did in this project/kit and the $800 plus some work to get those to another level without cabinet mods or changing drivers is amazing. Personally I like the sound of the phenolic ring cone tweeters. Very smooth and big enough to effortlessly deliver the treble. I was kind of surprised how poor the Woofer response was. I wonder if they're just worn out or materials degraded with age. The stock Woofers I've pulled from old mass market speakers usually have better frequency responses than the aftermarkets I replace them with. But... the majority of them I've pulled were from speakers that seemed hardly used and despite some cabinets being a little rough, the drivers are usually quite nice. The majority of wire I've pulled seemed really thin, like maybe 20 to 24 gauge and the caps, (and coils if they have any), are usually super tiny, so it looks like those crossovers were very nice for old speakers and if the wire was 18 gauge that's impressive. Plus, if I heard correctly these had insulation on the side panels which is a rare thing, usually there's either not insulation, or a small sheet on the back, or small fiberglass pads tossed in. You didn't mention how thick the cabinet was, but most of them are 1/2", so if that was thicker, that's a big deal too. It's nice to see you having fun with the big old speakers. I love em. They sound... well... BIG 😊
Still owner of one pair of Pioneer HPM-60 speakerboxes from mid '70s. Changed the original woofers for Visaton equivalent two decades ago (due standard foam problem Pioneer woofers). Still loved them but due my age frequency's above 8 KHz i can't hear anymore. Recently bought 2nd hand Pioneer TA-7500 & TX-7500 and the Pioneer headphone the SE 305. Going back to vintage stuff.
HPM-100 has been reviewed and labled as one of best speakers ever made.Some modern speakers have simulated sound quality .You get headache after extended listening.HPM-100 gives soft deep bass and clear vocals.You may use an equalizer to shape the sound to your taste.I have used this speaker for many years .The enclosed frequency response curve doesn't show variations of your graphs .Maybe some units are faulty.
An incredible change in performance for sure. With a 40+ year old speaker does the degradation of the materials make much of an impact on the drivers? Does the suspension get looser or tighter and change the resonances at all?
The condition of the drivers does play a big part. This one was kept in very good shape. Another pair that has bad, worn out or dry-rotted drivers won't be a good candidate for this upgrade. Suspension does loosen over time, but after the first 50hrs of use, there's often not much further change unless the glue on the spider or surround fails.
...and to think that the HPM100 was one of Pioneer's "greatest". Well, the visual design was great at least! Your service to the audio community is very much appreciated.
Maybe some of the upgrade is addressing variances in the ancient drivers. I wonder how consistent this upgrade would be for everyone. Often times when I test a pair of vintage speakers their responses are not identical between each other. Especially tweeters with ferrofluid that's gummed up.
This looks like a very interesting rebuild project, I bet their is HUGE room for improvement. If you can find some decent replacement parts and a better cabinet, or maybe a better resonant frequency and more internal bracing and better damping this thing could be a beast! Of course you would probably then have a whole new speaker!
that was something! Way back when......Pioneer brought this model out as a copy to the very, very hot selling JBL L-100A back in the day. Hence the copy on driver positioning, woofer cone material and color, and midrange, tweeter driver appearances. Even the port was placed in a similar position as the L-100. Pioneer also made a larger model...believe it was the HMP-200 or 250... don't remember, but it was a larger box with a quartz tweeter in the top.
It’s interesting to see how this responded with these old school drivers when you compare it to the ones you had recently that were virtually not worth the effort and you almost scrapped them. Good job on these.
That's way there's millions out there and was and still number one for vintage speaker .I have a set that have set that and also have newer speakers that cost over fourty grand each and all ways find my self going back to the Pioneers and thinking of selling the others because they take up to much room but never do it because of the loss in money. My ears aren't computers and HPM is the best speaker on the market that over fourty years old and a piece of under thousand dollars .AMAZING THUFF SPEAKERS AND PROBABLY WILL DYE WITH THIS AS MY NUMBER ONE SPEAKER AND HAVE NEVER HAVE TO EVEN CHANG A PART .
Great testing impression Danny,I always had a soft spot for big box speakers from the 70's, though I would never buy one today. I am thisclose to buying a pair of classic Legacys, because the price is outstanding and its a boyhood dream. I really wanna get them tested, but I shudder at the shipping costs, lol. Maybe If I drive to texas one day, who knows.
I've never been a fan. I tried... twice in fact to give them a chance but in the end, no depth, no subtlety, no sound stage and they shriek and fatigue when the music gets busy. The HPM 100 is basically a two way speaker with three overlapping tweeters. And tweeters all interfere with each other resulting in a terrible lobiness and off axis frequency response. The midrange driver with it's single 4 mf cap as high pass filter actually cuts in a frequency typical of a tweeter. Most of the midrange is produced by the 12 inch woofer. Worst of all it's hard to cure the gobs of stored energy (and resulting peaks and ringing) in the upper mid and treble ranges. But they're, bright, go loud and have lots of bass so your average rocker will love them.
I watch several channels doing these speakers analysis and all of you use different equipment and come up with virtual identical responses but yours is easiest to understand speaking and charts diagrams
Seems like some of the drivers were connected with wrong polarity. Was it someone who worked on it before who made the mistake or was it actually like that already in the original schematics ?
Ripping out the 2 middle drivers and putting in a horn with waveguide instead would also work. And the super tweeter would be used from 15k for extra sparkle.
I know it's a lot to make a video and further a lot of time to do the testing and documentation you do. It sure would be great to get still images of the upgrade parts you used (un-assembled and all in 1 photo is fine), then another still image or 2 of the process of upgrading these speakers. Basically just to see what you ended up with as a reference for those of us that decide to follow your upgrade path. In any case, thanks much for the vids! :)
Great way to hone your skills! You in testing would NOT design the driver array this way or with this compliment so its easier to get a flatter response, but to redo an improper design to be usable is an art!
Heck ya! Now I won't turn my eyes if I ever see a set at a garage sale :) PRoviding I can get some at a great price, i'd be happy to purchase this xover upgrade.
I got a pair for $60 a few months ago on marketplace. Did some work on the cabinets and fixed the pushed in center caps with a vac cleaner. Listed them on FB for $950 and they sold the same day.
Picked up a pair of these at the flea market in near mint condition just this past weekend. I have to say, I am highly impressed. I've had dozens and dozens of different speakers over the years, and these definitely rate near the top. Not as good as my MB quart floor standers, but impressive nonetheless. Mostly rock and roll speakers, but that's okay.
I was gonna say almost word for word what you said about the response! That is completely awful. I've been pouring over response graphs for the last couple months looking for new muds for vehicle so seeing this was almost a shock! 😂
I was pointed to a website where upon they measured this speaker with similar results to here. But when mid wires polarity was switched, it measured much more normal. Might be worth looking into?
@RennieAsh Yeah, I saw it too. It appears that some drivers were connected with the wrong polarity. Was it someone who worked on it before who made the mistake or was it actually like that already in the original schematics ?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #30 ДВА В ОДНОМ [Один человек]• Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nrXy15orKhY/mqdefault.jpg)
This deserves an A/B recording of before and after to let us experience the difference. Think of it as marketing.
YES!!!
Someone on here needs to upload or provide a link to an A/B recording. Would be great.
No bracing, cabinet resonance, I mean, scientifically and logically, I do believe his measurments, no obligatory A/B test here.
But yeah, could be a good idea though.
Take a good flat RME Babyface and 2 Earthworks M32r's and then do proper recording, i'd be in.
Agree. Hobbs, Ron, you know there are a crap ton of these out “there” in the wild. With sound clips added and a few people doing the upgrade kit and (assumingely) signing it’s praises, this “kit” could become the default for this line. Now all of the sets that shipped abroad WITH their existing sound warts, well, those will be what they are, but dang fellas, getting some WOM (word of mouth) energy behind this kit could really do some wonders in gaining exposure to a whole world of folks who either didn’t have much if any awareness of GR and/or the right improvements to THIS kit may help open their eyes to all of the other offerings you guys have. “Just sayin’ “
Particularly if they moved the mic during the test to illustrate how much more consistent it is off axis.
I love to see the older stuff getting a second chance , well done.
Looks like a completely different speaker with the changes made. Amazing.
Danny, that frequency response change you did is pure magic. Thank you.
That is the most radical improvement I've ever seen on your channel. Wow!
The frequency response it's... WHOA!!!
Please, keep doing pre 2000 stuff. Speakers from the 1990's, 1980's, and even the 1970's were awesome!! I used to drool over them, when I went into a Good Guys or Circuit city back in the day. Service merchandise & BEST products had a dedicated speaker room, which was awesome to visit!!! I miss those day!!!
I miss Musicraft in the Chicago area.
Man! My Mom had a pair of these. I grew up listening to them. What a trip to see these guys. What a great job Danny! This was a great one!
Another great video sir. Using the midrange as a fill is so often rewarding as you have proven. These presentations are so informative and, for lifetime audio nuts like me, downright exciting. I've been experimenting over 60 years, but without your expertise, and I may have to get back into it after learning so much from you. Many thanks for all your hard work.
i remember having 4 of these driven off a kenwood 9600 receiver at age 18 and thinking this is the best sound i've ever heard! i'm double that now and don't think i could stand them stock for long, learning is fun
I think the Old Speaker sounded really good w 4-Speakers, A lot better imagining and separation.
What a treat it is having Danny do this service for us. To actually pay someone for there time to do this would be quite expensive I’m sure. I’m in Canada so sending a speaker is not cheap however I did send my crossovers to Danny to throw together a kit of higher quality parts equal value for my CerwinVega! Speakers and the process and results were allot of fun. I highly recommend if able to, to take advantage of this service from GR Reserch and send him your speaker. It’s a fun hobby upgrading! Thanks GR Team!
It all goes to Danny's Humvee 2024 Fund
A typical 1970 Japanese big box speaker with lots of drivers they never sounded that good but looked impressive what Richie did is amazing and well worth spending the upgrade on another fantastic job !
These ones are not KABUKI though ( thankfully ). Those on the other hand were terrible.
Glad to see old speakers being kept alive thank you good video
Danny I can see the same joy in your face I have myself when a project comes together.
Fabulous job of correcting an old thrown together design . Prett impressive what you were able to achieve on this . Nice Job !!
As a kid, I would go over to my buddy's house and listen to jazz on his HPM-40s. It was a fun speaker, but it didn't image well, and certainly changed a lot when going off-axis. For people who have fond memories of the unique sound of these speakers, and want them to be more like an audiophile speaker, this is the ideal upgrade.
Cool story bro.
They sound terrific with my 50wpc @ 8 ohms Yamaha amp.
That’s one impressive crossover design upgrade. Well done good sir. Well done.
I just ordered the kit, great work was just in the process of fixing my just bought hpm 100 set. I owned them in the late 80ties and sold them in the 90ties. Got them back but new about the filter problems. Was concidering the mv labs filter but you had some better thinking and experience on it. Cant wait to start building the filters. Also got my hands on hpm900 backplates to keep the org filters original. Will also do the bracing of the box. Will come back with the results.
Did you ever complete the upgrade? Would love to hear about your experience and the results of your efforts!
@@veegoss1 yes i got the whole set from danny i also reinforced the inside acording to his advice. The hpm now sound much better the ringing is gone they stage perfectly you can listen the whole day to them with my high end dac and my vintage recordplayer setup. They also have depth now and as danny says they really can compete with modern speakers but with paper cone vintage vibe. Its really a great great upgrade one of the best. Also bass is much tighter than ever heard on a hpm. The original coils are way to thin. Will try to add some pictures dont now if that is possible else send me a pm.
I find the test results hilarious, people worship these speakers!
Emotions...
@@morlidor no, they did not listen with their ears, they listened to the "high end" stuff from the brands like Pioneer, JBL and Yamaha, that's why these fossils were "good". They "listened" to prestige...
I've got a pair of hpm 100s got the hpm40s as well. My experience with them is very good. Solid low end, Lotta detail and clarity, having a hard time believing all your negativity.
What I show is exactly what it is. There is no sugar coating the mess that these are.
@@morlidor The audible improvement after the upgrade is significant. Give it a try and you will hear for yourself.
Well I think I've already had crossover work done on mine. Different style terminals on these which makes me think somebody's done it already. Probably why I can't hear what you're talking about
Yay! I was one of the ones that wrote to you and asked. I'm excited for the upgrades! Thanks to you and whoever sent that in!
Wow! That speaker was a mess. Nice work Danny. 💪🏼
Very surprising for me that a correction that good is possible on this big speaker. I thought there would be not much to do about the off-axis response. Good job.
Love those speakers and this is one of my favorite videos that you've done. Old speakers have lots of value and upgradeability too! Thanks!!
I've watched enough of these videos that I can predict some of the off axis response based on the speaker location and cross over points. Soon as I saw it I thought "wow, the worse off axis response I have seen". Anyone, a fun video and an amazing transformation.
Awesome Transformation!
We always put our Speakers up on Cement Blocks with thick Rubber mats and a Towel - Not like Today's Stands but really helped back in the day , when we were under the "effects" LOL
These old speakers have a lot of potential but we must invest a good deal of time and money to make them sound as they should! Thanks for all that engineering knowledge you provide!
Thank you for doing this...
Never heard one but I suspected a train wreck response..
Love your stuff man!!
All of the 70's speakers I've listened to sounded like a train wreck. Muddy boomy and horrible.
I love that you are tackling these old speakers! Love love it. Vintage JBL's? I particularly would love to see you do the L-222 Disco or L-220. I have a pair and not that far from you. Maybe we can plan a drop off/visit.
Thank you for de-mystifying and giving the speakers an honest open eyed evaluation...
I never had HPM 100’s but in the 80’s I had set of HPM 900’s. Good speakers overall. I really wanted the HPM 1100 but couldn’t afford them back then lol.
Amazing work on the X-over. I tip my hat to you Sir.
you are a scholar and a gentleman Daniel my man
My first set of speakers were Pioneer HPM-40's, the baby brother to these ones. A guy in my dorm had the 100's. I lusted after them, but couldn't afford them.
I replaced my 40's many years later with Klipsch Heresy II's. That was a mistake.
You did a great job transforming these. If they were mine, i would have even built a new box for them, lining the drivers up properly and mounting them flush, but i understand that's outside the scope of what you do here.
Well done! Hopefully someone will eventually send in an L-100. I’d be interested in trying an overhaul on mine.
Second that!!
Hello. This was a good video. I really like the videos you make where you shed light on a big and common problem when it comes to factory made speakers. I'm talking about the quality of them which is often not that good
I know a bit of the history of these HPMs and own almost all the versions that were produced. The 100s were designed to sit very high, well above ear level and I learned this at the time they were new, speaking to Pioneer Australia. They installed 4 sets of these in a record shop, with a ton of their amps, etc and I remember the guys telling me that there were designed to sit very high up, not at ear level. Just putting it out there. Id love to see a set of HPM 150s looked at ot the HPM1100s and even the 100s predecessor, the HPM900. I have them and more, if you would like to come to Australia 😂 Great video and as usual, great info. Thanks
We did have someone call us asking about the HPM150s but I don't know if they'll be willing to send one for evaluation. But if we get sent one, well definitely take a look at it.
Hey Danny, great video and nice to see you measure these. They sound as they look. I'm curious for all the people asking for A/B's, perhaps prior to redesigning the crossover you could record a short 30 second segment using some royalty free music, and after the redesign is finished record the end result. Changes like this are so huge that even a cell phone recording would resolve the differences. Cheers!
Results you achieved were amazing!
I wish you could have helped me with my own older circa 80s speakers.
Truly one of your greatest achievements… And I’ve watched All the upgrades, at least once
Greatest transformation of an iconic and popular speaker that I always considered unlistenable. Now they look and sound great... like they should have when they were made but didn't.
Thanks for the insightful video. I wonder now how the JBL L100 compares.
I got a pair of the 100w version a year ago, and messed around with the crossovers a bit and replacing with new polyprop caps. Until any further serious crossover overhaul, I found they greatly improved just by changing the woofer lowpass inductor from 0.6 to 0.9mH
Danny, you never cease to amaze me. Old speaker better than a new Klipsch. Well done.
Well, a flat response doesn't necessarily tell the story of how the speaker sounds...it is balanced for sure. But that doesn't mean it will sound better than a new
@@davidristic3800 Klipsch?!!
Better than a new Klipsch? Do u mean before the upgrade? LOL. You’re setting the bar rather low, don’t u think? But truly one of his greatest achievements to date..
you did a fabulous job. before/after
i know for a fact that a lot of these used (without upgrades) ended up in Vietnam. Because people posted video on YT.
Thank you for picking this speaker and making the video! Everyone seems to love these old HPM-100s so seeing what they put out originally is really interesting! What you have done to them is amazing and I would love to hear the final product! I have a pair of HPM-900s with the graphite drivers that I would love to have reworked by you.
I owned two sets in the day, one set was the clear acrylic cabinets. I hung the wood set high up in a room with 12 ft ceilings. I replaced the mid range driver and that got rid of a lot of the harshness.
Great Danny and Hobbs. So great that Americans dare to send their loved vintage speakers to GR, for a new life, to the next generation. Recycling. But we get to enjoy them for a bit, again. Just imagine how many 70-80 ish speakers there are out there.
Totally agree about upgrading these vintage speakers, even rebuilding them ( most were made with chip ( particle) board yuks ) Unfortunately its the then sound of the models that people get attached to. Upgrade them like the HPM-100 but you will lose the sound that they think is great. No doubt the sound will change for the better but I love the sound the way it is !!! that's what your up against. Hopefully after this video, more people with vintage speakers eg: JBL's will make the jump.
Yesterday I saw a youtube video comparing this HPM-100 to the JBL L-112, I had the L-112 and repaired the HPM and I must say there are a lot of HPM-100 lovers but this speaker I assure that is the most colored beloved speaker ever, now in your video I understand why it is so colored stock condition, you did an amazing job with the new design crossover, now looks more like the L-112 which only have the caveat of a ringing about 1.8 khz, I will appreciate if you test a good stock condition JBL L-112 to confirm my appreciation, thanks buddy
Send one in and we'll find out.
Well done. Have been fooling with speakers since this was a new product. Worked at GRT/Chess/Janus Records and had access to their studio monitors (KLH). Learned from their engineers and been rebuilding the odd speaker pair ever since. This run down was what we all needed back in the day 😊
OBTW - Soviet radar caps make good audio caps, when you can find them ... 🙃
I watched a couple of these videos now, I would really like to see you do the actual upgrades. Make the new crossovers, make the alterations to the cabinet, etc
That transformation is just exceptional... Well done Danny!
This is my first time watching your channel. It was very interesting to hear your take on those older speakers. I think it's pretty obvious the older speakers just don't have the build quality and modern performance features. This technology has come a long way, I think the older speakers have the "Vintage Sound," which in today's speak is not great.
I like a big box and I cannot lie.
You otha brothas can't deny.
@@dannyrichie9743 The open baffles make my cry.
Love my bone stock 100s. I would be afraid to touch them. Great information!!
If you love them in stock form, you'd really love them after the upgrade.
Very cool. Working with vintage mass market speakers myself, I can definitely appreciate what you did in this project/kit and the $800 plus some work to get those to another level without cabinet mods or changing drivers is amazing. Personally I like the sound of the phenolic ring cone tweeters. Very smooth and big enough to effortlessly deliver the treble. I was kind of surprised how poor the Woofer response was. I wonder if they're just worn out or materials degraded with age. The stock Woofers I've pulled from old mass market speakers usually have better frequency responses than the aftermarkets I replace them with. But... the majority of them I've pulled were from speakers that seemed hardly used and despite some cabinets being a little rough, the drivers are usually quite nice. The majority of wire I've pulled seemed really thin, like maybe 20 to 24 gauge and the caps, (and coils if they have any), are usually super tiny, so it looks like those crossovers were very nice for old speakers and if the wire was 18 gauge that's impressive. Plus, if I heard correctly these had insulation on the side panels which is a rare thing, usually there's either not insulation, or a small sheet on the back, or small fiberglass pads tossed in. You didn't mention how thick the cabinet was, but most of them are 1/2", so if that was thicker, that's a big deal too.
It's nice to see you having fun with the big old speakers. I love em. They sound... well... BIG 😊
For most people, the super tweeter might as well not be there. Tested, my hearing makes it to 14khz. That’s it.
Danny - You speak way above my paygrade ! - But i cant stop watching ( lol ) Thank you Sir
Order this kit: gr-research.com/product/pioneer-hpm-100-upgrade-kit/
OMG, i grew up on the sound of these speakers on my old man's rig once upon a time. Thanks for revisiting this gem Danny.
This was a good one. Lightening in a bottle kind of stuff!
Nice
Still owner of one pair of Pioneer HPM-60 speakerboxes from mid '70s. Changed the original woofers for Visaton equivalent two decades ago (due standard foam problem Pioneer woofers). Still loved them but due my age frequency's above 8 KHz i can't hear anymore. Recently bought 2nd hand Pioneer TA-7500 & TX-7500 and the Pioneer headphone the SE 305. Going back to vintage stuff.
Had those back in the Day, that's why I bought JBL L100s and wore em out!
Loved their Recievers though and Have a SX1280 Still Today!
Shocked you got it so flat, better than modern speakers you worked on
Wow its amazing how you fixed this speaker
HPM-100 has been reviewed and labled as one of best speakers ever made.Some modern speakers have simulated sound quality .You get headache after extended listening.HPM-100 gives soft deep bass and clear vocals.You may use an equalizer to shape the sound to your taste.I have used this speaker for many years .The enclosed frequency response curve doesn't show variations of your graphs .Maybe some units are faulty.
An incredible change in performance for sure. With a 40+ year old speaker does the degradation of the materials make much of an impact on the drivers? Does the suspension get looser or tighter and change the resonances at all?
The condition of the drivers does play a big part. This one was kept in very good shape. Another pair that has bad, worn out or dry-rotted drivers won't be a good candidate for this upgrade. Suspension does loosen over time, but after the first 50hrs of use, there's often not much further change unless the glue on the spider or surround fails.
...and to think that the HPM100 was one of Pioneer's "greatest". Well, the visual design was great at least! Your service to the audio community is very much appreciated.
Maybe some of the upgrade is addressing variances in the ancient drivers. I wonder how consistent this upgrade would be for everyone. Often times when I test a pair of vintage speakers their responses are not identical between each other. Especially tweeters with ferrofluid that's gummed up.
Would every 1 like the upgrades... The differences in frequency response of different components.. They cud sound very different
This looks like a very interesting rebuild project, I bet their is HUGE room for improvement. If you can find some decent replacement parts and a better cabinet, or maybe a better resonant frequency and more internal bracing and better damping this thing could be a beast! Of course you would probably then have a whole new speaker!
😂😂😂
At that point why not find some cool new advanced drivers funded by the sale of old vintage to some fan of it ;p
that was something! Way back when......Pioneer brought this model out as a copy to the very, very hot selling JBL L-100A back in the day. Hence the copy on driver positioning, woofer cone material and color, and midrange, tweeter driver appearances. Even the port was placed in a similar position as the L-100. Pioneer also made a larger model...believe it was the HMP-200 or 250... don't remember, but it was a larger box with a quartz tweeter in the top.
HPM-150
Bart Locanthi designed both speakers.
@@morlidor quite debatable; just say it was different.
It’s interesting to see how this responded with these old school drivers when you compare it to the ones you had recently that were virtually not worth the effort and you almost scrapped them. Good job on these.
Using an Pioneer sx950 wcerwin vega SL-15. Got it for the 15 incher, highs are wicked good. Nice mellow mids.
Perfect shirt for this video. Nice work Danny and team!
It was an indoor soccer team that I played for many years ago.
That's way there's millions out there and was and still number one for vintage speaker .I have a set that have set that and also have newer speakers that cost over fourty grand each and all ways find my self going back to the Pioneers and thinking of selling the others because they take up to much room but never do it because of the loss in money. My ears aren't computers and HPM is the best speaker on the market that over fourty years old and a piece of under thousand dollars .AMAZING THUFF SPEAKERS AND PROBABLY WILL DYE WITH THIS AS MY NUMBER ONE SPEAKER AND HAVE NEVER HAVE TO EVEN CHANG A PART .
Sounds blissful.
Great testing impression Danny,I always had a soft spot for big box speakers from the 70's, though I would never buy one today. I am thisclose to buying a pair of classic Legacys, because the price is outstanding and its a boyhood dream. I really wanna get them tested, but I shudder at the shipping costs, lol. Maybe If I drive to texas one day, who knows.
I've never been a fan. I tried... twice in fact to give them a chance but in the end, no depth, no subtlety, no sound stage and they shriek and fatigue when the music gets busy. The HPM 100 is basically a two way speaker with three overlapping tweeters. And tweeters all interfere with each other resulting in a terrible lobiness and off axis frequency response. The midrange driver with it's single 4 mf cap as high pass filter actually cuts in a frequency typical of a tweeter. Most of the midrange is produced by the 12 inch woofer. Worst of all it's hard to cure the gobs of stored energy (and resulting peaks and ringing) in the upper mid and treble ranges. But they're, bright, go loud and have lots of bass so your average rocker will love them.
I watch several channels doing these speakers analysis and all of you use different equipment and come up with virtual identical responses but yours is easiest to understand speaking and charts diagrams
I want one soon as I get some more play money available! Thank you Danny!
Great video, love the vintage fixer uppers.
Seems like some of the drivers were connected with wrong polarity.
Was it someone who worked on it before who made the mistake or was it actually like that already in the original schematics ?
Good gas light upgrade thumbs up.
Ripping out the 2 middle drivers and putting in a horn with waveguide instead would also work. And the super tweeter would be used from 15k for extra sparkle.
Have had them, sounded like trap! Now I have Canton Topaz 60, best speaker i've heard from back then.....
You are a speaker magician. 👍
I’m restoring the 100 watt version. I wonder if these upgrades would be similar or the same for mine
I know it's a lot to make a video and further a lot of time to do the testing and documentation you do. It sure would be great to get still images of the upgrade parts you used (un-assembled and all in 1 photo is fine), then another still image or 2 of the process of upgrading these speakers. Basically just to see what you ended up with as a reference for those of us that decide to follow your upgrade path. In any case, thanks much for the vids! :)
Great video , i love it when you operate in this mode.
Great way to hone your skills!
You in testing would NOT design the driver array this way or with this compliment so its easier to get a flatter response, but to redo an improper design to be usable is an art!
I had pioneer 4 ways back in 80, awesum sound w KR6030 tek hifi.
Heck ya! Now I won't turn my eyes if I ever see a set at a garage sale :) PRoviding I can get some at a great price, i'd be happy to purchase this xover upgrade.
I got a pair for $60 a few months ago on marketplace. Did some work on the cabinets and fixed the pushed in center caps with a vac cleaner. Listed them on FB for $950 and they sold the same day.
Danny proving his chops once again…
Picked up a pair of these at the flea market in near mint condition just this past weekend. I have to say, I am highly impressed. I've had dozens and dozens of different speakers over the years, and these definitely rate near the top. Not as good as my MB quart floor standers, but impressive nonetheless. Mostly rock and roll speakers, but that's okay.
They are ten times better after the upgrade.
I was gonna say almost word for word what you said about the response! That is completely awful. I've been pouring over response graphs for the last couple months looking for new muds for vehicle so seeing this was almost a shock! 😂
Love to see what the new crossover looks like.
I was pointed to a website where upon they measured this speaker with similar results to here. But when mid wires polarity was switched, it measured much more normal.
Might be worth looking into?
@RennieAsh
Yeah, I saw it too.
It appears that some drivers were connected with the wrong polarity. Was it someone who worked on it before who made the mistake or was it actually like that already in the original schematics ?
Thanks a lot Danny!!!
Fantastic video! Fantastic work!
Damn, some nice work here Danny! 👍