When I was out at a track doing some training yesterday (running 40 yard sprints this time) I sure didn't feel like I have been aging backwards. My times kind of sucked too.
@@dannyrichie9743 never stop. I ran my first half marathon in London at 59 with my daughter in 2 hours. Then a year later had my stroke. So do it while can. Run one for both of us!!
I always find it amusing when someone post a comment like yours. You just spent all of your precious time in life watching some thing you think is ridiculous. What does that say about you?@@thomasschafer7268
@@stephenyoud6125 the type that will waste 20 minutes on something they cant comprehend just to poo poo it in the comments. all you need to know. trolls even here....alas
This speaker was a beast when it was released in 1977. Other speakers back then were trash! I bought it used in 1990 and it was my first real hifi speaker.
Very impressive improvement! Congratulations! I think this video is a master class about speakers performance, diffraction, cancelations, and all that issues you are pointing out from old speakers design. Many people love the way that speakers looks like, love the big woofer and all that old stile. But this video , among others you have made, shows hoy big the improvement in speakers design has been over the las 3 decades.
Wow! Yes, I remember the first time I heard this speaker. It was in a stereo shop playing September by Earth Wind and Fire. I thought it was the greatest speaker ever. I wanted a pair SO BAD! ! I was 21 years old and didn’t have anywhere near that kind of money, but I never forgot them.
It WAS the performance. Back then, there were a few standouts among a long line of poor designs and mediocre performances. The Pioneer HPM-150 was one of the standouts. It's like you said before. A 66 Mustang GT was a fantastic car for its day, but it would be blown away by any modern sports car. That does not mean it wasn't bought for its performance back in 66. The Stutz bearcat was the first car ever to have both tires spin on pavement. It was THE high performance car of its day. It was wildly popular for this. Then they switched to an all aluminum transmission and the gears would strip out if you tried spinning the tires on later models. This cost the company its reputation and they never recovered. We've seen this kind of thing happen with speaker companies too.
There were lots better from AR, Klipsch, Wharfedale, Quad, Infinity and even B&W. Pioneer was a low end hifi company that did appearance over function. Pioneer preferred to make money over engineering.
Quite an achievement to do what you did. What’s most apparent to me in older speakers, not even as old as these is how boxy they sound. I remember the HPM 100’s being sold discounted heavily in a store that sold nearly everything. My friend got the 100’s, I had Polk 10’s which had a lot of ill-defined bass a magic midrange and murky highs.
I always enjoy your vids! I built my own 12" 3 way including cabinet in the mid 60's. So been at this for a while. But still learn things from your vids! Having been in the HiFi industry in the '70's as a Cerwin Vega rep, I was well aware of all these. It is interesting all these years later to see the technical reasons I found them lacking no matter how popular.
Hey Danny. Great video. I would love you to work on a pair of vintage EV's like the Interface range or the Patrician. Big ask but they certainly sounded good in their day. Keep up the good work my friend. Excellent content.
Interesting data. It is hilarious how much these speakers command in the secondary market. Pioneer brand name pricing in general has become obscene. Im surprised that you do not: 1) design and sell a bracing kit with the no- res sheets. CNC cut bracing that is glued in by the owner. 2) source and sell high quality potentiometers. They exist and guys are installing them in vintage amplifiers.
Haha, I would ACTUALLY consider something like the Infinity IRS-V's to be more of the TRUE "KING" of vintage speakers, but for more relatively "modest" setups these Pioneers are pretty nice too... Another great upgrade video Danny, keep 'em coming, everyone appreciates the vintage gear nowadays, it seems!
@@jamestyrer907 Those ADS speakers you mention are nice (smaller) tower speakers too, but have you ever even SEEN the Infinity IRS-V speakers, especially in combination with their matching subwoofer towers? I mean, we're supposed to be talking about the ALL TIME KING of vintage speakers here, so they're definitely gonna be something that makes almost ANYONE go "WOW!" (or something even more explicit), whenever they first see and/or hear them! PS Audio in Colorado has a set of the infinity IRS-Vs in one of their demo listening rooms, and every time that Paul McGowan, the CEO of the company does a UA-cam video while standing next to them, I'm just blown away by their sheer size alone, as all four towers that make up the system, both of the front mains and both of the matching subwoofers, are all literally almost 8' tall, and the system weighs well over a TON! If I'm ever up in the Denver area I'm definitely going to be stopping by their manufacturing plant there and visiting long enough to get to hear a demo of those speakers, along with their own new models for comparison!
Currently using a pair of 301 series II. I've changed the front tweeters to a pair of old large Advent orange fried egg tweeters putting them in the same place with some angle brackets and wired in series with the back tweeters. I've also took out the old cross over and went with a simple first order at about 2600 hertz with a Solen 6.7 uF Cap. I did put a variable L- pad in the circuit and is stable at 9 olms the woofer has just a coil 0.5 mH so it's also first order. I put the L- pad in to bring the tweeters level down a few decibels as it was a bit brite for my taste. That was definitely an improvement. I think the bose tweeters at 2600 might be a comfortable low for them and a higher order cross over might be a benefit to lower the crossover frequency ( not much) and keeping the drivers from over lapping as much. So I would go for it because the original cross over was just a first order only on the tweeters. I had the fried eggs on hand so I used them....they are rather expensive at over a hundred bucks a pair. But I think the original tweeters okay. The biggest problem is that the tweeters play over the woofer . And the spring terminals are cheap. The original circuit on the tweeters is funky with a light bulb acting as a current limiter and a 8 olm resister all drivers and parts in series resulting in a 16 ohm tweeter circuit. I might try a second order cross over in the future. But at the very minimum put a coil on the woofer..It worked out great and I went first oder because it's what I had on hand. I think I would stick with 2600 hertz because the fs for the Bose tweeters is about 1300 hertz. Anyway going 2nd oder and using the original tweeters should be an improvement with some relatively inexpensive components will go a long way. Those tweeters have a high sensitivity so some attenuation will probably be necessary. And I did stuff the ports and have a subwoofer. There is a very small pair of speakers ( 4.5 inch mid base and 0.75 inch soft dome) sitting on top a piece of carpet and the pole pieces in a plane ( approximately) lined up with the Bose.wooofer . The small speakers are tilted in slightly and on a separate amplifier to control the relative volume. And the Bose tilted out slightly. The Bose are slightly below ear level and the small acoustic suspension speakers ( pretty high sensitivity and no deep bass , but excellentvocals) slightly above and sitting more to the middle depth. So I have a good sound stage. It's all stuff I had and made it work. Sounds good in my largish room in a finished basement. Last note I don't know what the power handling for those tweeters is, but I'm not listening to them at high volume either and I'm certain that the Bose will go away and open the circuit before the Advent tweeters and I do have a spare pair of Bose tweeters now kinda like a replaceable fuse.
Danny, great and fun. You do rock. Please, change your cloth in the room, because the speakers (usually black) disappear in the background. Merge. Or is your new listening room finished, so you can shoot there? Love it
Growing up we had a pair of Tamon TS-5000 speakers.... good looking 12" 3-way in a sealed cabinet, and they sounded great on our 25 wpc Pioneer receiver. I'd love to find a pair again, just for the nostalgia, but they are nowhere. I DID see a pair in a Tame Impala video in an In-Studio performance! Strange sighting.
Hope someone sends in some Kappa-9s. Would love to hear Danny's take on these. A friend had a home theatre system based on these back in the late 80s. Man, were they loud! I do remember he had massive amps driving them.
@stephenyoud6125 I'm not going to buy his kits because I don't have any of the speakers that he does kits for, but I want to play around with old speakers that I have and understanding some of his techniques would be interesting.
Mahalo for this report. Now I know WHY my barracks roommate's HPM-1500 (an overseas equivalent) sounded kinda...incoherent...on the movie soundtracks I liked to play all the time. They seemed fine on my roommate's music...if you like rock music...but my weird music sounded even more odd. I still have the Realistic Minimus 7 speakers I bought back in 1979. They sounded nicer than these, but I wished I new which subwoofer I could've used with those little jewels.
i have four of them when having the spec-1 and spec.-2 ,it was my father 76 system laster he bought a B series from Revox and gave me it´s Pioneer 76 catalog more expensive components, the speakers have all to be restored as inside the electronic parts don´t last 50 years, they seem to sound good but when installing new and equal electric pieces they become new again
Ran across this video. Watched several more covering past couple of years. His speakers are the only ones he really approves of. My hearing at 71 yo is 50 to 11khz. My point is, I never heardhim display any reaction orher than disgust, disdain and frustration over all speakers except his design. The designers at these wonderful (to my pathetic taste) speaker manufacturers are a bunch of hacks, according to him. Never considers personal listening preference. Take his improvements with the beautiful graphs and put them in the majority of listeners rooms and hearing ability , and I m not sure it would make a major difference. I suppose this is a channel for the special few such as himself. Erin is more my speed. He is a humble guy that relates to people like me with this hobby. Different strokes.
You obviously have not watched too many of my videos. When they are good. I say that they're good. I praised several Polk models for good design work, two models from Mono Price, several Golden Ear models, a recent Emotiva model and a new Heco Aurora model that I just shoot a video on, but has not been released. Our upgrades are not just different, they involve significant improvements, and our customers confirm that every day.
Has Danny ever done LARGE ADVENTS?? Mine have been re done (surrounds) and really still sound good. Particularly for acoustic music and unprocessed vocals.
Steel is a ferromagnetic material, like an inductor core, that gets alternatively energized and de-energization with the audio signal. Due to the alternating magnetism, with the hysteresis delays involved, there will be some time smearing [along with some tiny signal loss]. Asymmetrical audio signals cause a retention of magnetism in the steel nuts, which then only serves to make the aforementioned phenomenon even worse. Sorry for the verbal diarrhea. 😳 Good day. 😉👍🍺
One thing I always ask myself on these mods GR does is distortion. And I wonder what the distortion levels are before and after the mods. My guess is they wouldn't look so good, but would be interesting to see what's happening. Of course distortion is an area that in speaker measurements is very much of a mystery zone. But in cases like on the Pioneer makes one wonder why invest any money to get closer to a modern speaker, where curves and specs will be more linear.
Distortion is actually more marketing than a real number. There is no industry standard for measuring distortion. It is also impossible to measure distortion accurately outside of anechoic chamber. In other words, the room noise or noise floor in the room is always present in the measurement. However, the whole thing is still a variable just like the room noise. Even room noise levels are constantly moving around. It is also easy to make the distortion numbers be anything you want them to be just by changing the input level. At any normal levels the distortion is not going to be a factor or in any way a measuring stick for quality until power levels are such that compression starts taking place. By far, the stored energy that we see in a spectral decay is a much greater distortion from the original input signal then what is going on in the harmonics of the drivers. For that matter the resonances of the cabinet is by far a greater level of distortion. We seen instances where the application of No Rez alone will knock 15db or more of actual measured cabinet noise. Normally, measured distortion in THD of a speaker that is playing at 1 watt/1 meter levels will have distortion levels below ambient room noise and will be in the 45 to 50db range. So it is not the factor that those in marketing would like to make it out as.
Hi Danny, I have seen and like the vintage upgrades you do, have you ever analyzed the JBL L166 horizon? I think its similar to their L100 but it has a few differences in the drivers.
Problem is, old drivers and old crossovers will have different response to new, so there are variables between better condition speaker than new. So how can you measure a speaker and use those results with owners where it could be wild difference between theres?
The HPM 150 are good but I chose to buy the way better Pioneer DSS-9. Later, I wanted to buy the Pioneer Elite TZ-9 but I waited too long after I chose the DSS-9. Pioneer's HPM were second tier compared to Pioneer's DSS and Elite speaker line.
I won't lie to you. I had a pair of HPM 100 by Pioneer and they were a disappointment. The ribbon tweeter didn't do a thing. The cabinets weight was 35 lbs. No crossover from my point of view. I redid them with better pieces from Eminence and seas. And yes I put felt insulation in to dampen the cabinet
The pre-upgrade measurements looked so bad it has me wondering if something was broken! What did it sound like? The curves suggest a horrible midrange dominant, sound like you would get from a megaphone. But surely these must have sounded good in some respects to have sold well. The super tweeter for sure must have been broken, though, to only give 65dB. Ferrofluid dried up? Very good upgrade though, albeit a lot of money so the value, as someone else commented, is because the owner really loves the nostalgia of the cabinet design.
nice! never got any of these big boys but had the smaller pioneers, but what i wanted to say is ain't that lift table a life saver? surprised more reviewers and modders don't use them
Stock HPM 150s definitely have some problems as you've outlined but in actual listening their sound somehow seems much less objectionable that the HPM 100s, at least to my ears.
Who looks charts when these speakers measumerements are the character of the speaker. Just buy some Neumann studio monitors with the measurement mic and you can get those charts right. Vintage speakers are for total different purpose...not just showing some measurements. Vinyl records have cracks, pops etc. Some wise measurement guys said when cd came that vinyls are useless.
Yeah, but a lot of people want them to sound better than that. It is also not just what the charts show. The differences in clarity, detail, and resolution are the result in a huge upgrade in parts quality.
Heard these woofers are inferior to rest of the hpms. Graphite woofers with foam surrounds that make very hard to change out when they rot. Hardly an upgrade
Danny, when are you going to make a super tweeter, just a small box that sits on top of the speaker. Make it open baffle so the sound reflects off the back wall and gives a big sound stage. Normally, super tweeter uses a ribbon tweeter. You are using a ribbon tweeter on you NSX range, you just need to get the manufacturer of this ribbon tweeter to make it go all the way up to say 80K Hz.
it´s not a tweeter it´s medium frequencies output the tweeter is up and the super tweeter also that not all can hear it, at least never heard anyone say that can hear it and they looked nice when new and still today they even look nicer as most of the speakers are tiny ,allthough they sound good if not with well made box and inside shaped to improve the diferent frequencies flow it´s not like better only good , i put inside a wooden (pine tree) box i had built myself in the 70´s and installed there a complete system from some mission 780 or Argonaut MKII and everybody who hears it says it sounds amazing, so big boxes do matter a lot ,take a look at the monitors used in studios to hear the recordings not the ones besides the mixing table, allthough all can be controlled from the main table, it depends of how everything is displayed in a studio as control section, sorry my english isn´t that good in technical matters
Any viewers out there that can recommend a pair of floor standing speakers in the $10,000 range ? Must be able to play very loud and clean. Large listening area. (blu-ray dvd rock concerts)
@@dannyrichie9743 I just finished checking them out. "wow" very impressive. Not what I am looking for unfortunately. I need a very aesthetically appealing cabinet (ie. Kanta's) or my wife will not be happy. These will be placed in our (new) open concept living room. That being said, I would absolutely love to hear the Bully's.
@@dannyrichie9743 I would love to but, not a big fan of flying. The older I get the more anxiety i experience while flying. Plus this whole "DEI" crap being forced on airlines is unsettling to say the least. That being said, just having a conversation with you would be worth the cost.
Lemme guess - the midrange driver has a closed frame? You said the cabinet is an open box; and they just put the drivers in where they physically fit. There is a LOT of low hanging fruit, so to speak!
Absolutely false. Pioneer's DSS and Elite speaker line are if maintained properly rival Canton, Tannoy or any other high end speaker line of today. I know as I own Pioneer's DSS-9 and smaller DSS-7. I bought both in the mid 1980s.
Vintage speakers to be honest are crap. The technology just wasn't there to measure them properly. Now vintage electronics with modern speakers are magical.
Incredible transformation. Wow. Danny looks like he's going all out to find the worst possible speakers and turn them into something listenable. If he wants a real challenge he should have a crack at some Bose speakers. I doubt even he could get those abominations to sound anything but horrible.
I would never try to change anything on speakers like this, i`d keep everything as original as possible. These are not for so called improvements. Their value lies in their own unique vintage sound. Keep your hands of and keep them original.
If you get them cheap, like buying them at an estate sale, putting in a few hundred dollars makes a lot of sense. If you get them expensive, like from a vintage audio retailer, then putting many more hundreds of dollars into that makes no sense whatsoever.
Well, you will get a special speaker. Not your average Pioneer from BestBuy. If you want something this large and beefy, you’ll need to pay a lot. See it as a fun speaker, fun project. Compare it to the KLH or Wharfdale ain’t the same. Search all life for something better, then you get nothing.
Not so perfect? Old speaker and old drivers. What did you expect? So this speaker that are more accurate then before, it’s not good enough for you, when we go vintage? What’s your choice of speaker?
The improvement on this speaker is just astounding. I've seen you improve other speakers, but the improvement on this one is truly amazing!
Agree completely. Always impressed with Danny’s skills.
Im convinced now. Danny ages backwards. Looking good, keep up the good work.
When I was out at a track doing some training yesterday (running 40 yard sprints this time) I sure didn't feel like I have been aging backwards. My times kind of sucked too.
@@dannyrichie9743 never stop. I ran my first half marathon in London at 59 with my daughter in 2 hours. Then a year later had my stroke. So do it while can. Run one for both of us!!
I seen experiment on mouses. Sport increases possible timelife.
King of vintage speakers ?... upgraded by the King of Upgrades !. great work as usual. Nicely done..
Bla bla bla.
@@thomasschafer7268 don’t understand your comment. Show me better speaker upgrader, I’d love to learn more
I always find it amusing when someone post a comment like yours. You just spent all of your precious time in life watching some thing you think is ridiculous. What does that say about you?@@thomasschafer7268
@@stephenyoud6125 the type that will waste 20 minutes on something they cant comprehend just to poo poo it in the comments. all you need to know. trolls even here....alas
17:50 incredible improvement
The tweeter on top looks like something from Lost in Space TV show from the late 60's. Now that's nostalgia.
This speaker was a beast when it was released in 1977. Other speakers back then were trash! I bought it used in 1990 and it was my first real hifi speaker.
@wa2368 other speakers were not trash in the 70's😂😂😂😂
Very impressive improvement! Congratulations! I think this video is a master class about speakers performance, diffraction, cancelations, and all that issues you are pointing out from old speakers design. Many people love the way that speakers looks like, love the big woofer and all that old stile. But this video , among others you have made, shows hoy big the improvement in speakers design has been over the las 3 decades.
Wow! Yes, I remember the first time I heard this speaker. It was in a stereo shop playing September by Earth Wind and Fire. I thought it was the greatest speaker ever. I wanted a pair SO BAD! ! I was 21 years old and didn’t have anywhere near that kind of money, but I never forgot them.
Big baffles still have a real charm, even if you can't listen on-axis.
That new vert off axis....wow.
It WAS the performance. Back then, there were a few standouts among a long line of poor designs and mediocre performances. The Pioneer HPM-150 was one of the standouts.
It's like you said before. A 66 Mustang GT was a fantastic car for its day, but it would be blown away by any modern sports car. That does not mean it wasn't bought for its performance back in 66.
The Stutz bearcat was the first car ever to have both tires spin on pavement. It was THE high performance car of its day. It was wildly popular for this. Then they switched to an all aluminum transmission and the gears would strip out if you tried spinning the tires on later models. This cost the company its reputation and they never recovered.
We've seen this kind of thing happen with speaker companies too.
. Ya, I caught that too & I agree with you. These were high performance HiFi. I'll let it slip, lol, because GR's work is outstanding.
@@TriAmpHiFi What he did for these speakers is nothing short of amazing.
There were lots better from AR, Klipsch, Wharfedale, Quad, Infinity and even B&W. Pioneer was a low end hifi company that did appearance over function. Pioneer preferred to make money over engineering.
Quite an achievement to do what you did. What’s most apparent to me in older speakers, not even as old as these is how boxy they sound. I remember the HPM 100’s being sold discounted heavily in a store that sold nearly everything. My friend got the 100’s, I had Polk 10’s which had a lot of ill-defined bass a magic midrange and murky highs.
Wow what a difference you made Danny- incredible!
I always enjoy your vids! I built my own 12" 3 way including cabinet in the mid 60's. So been at this for a while. But still learn things from your vids! Having been in the HiFi industry in the '70's as a Cerwin Vega rep, I was well aware of all these. It is interesting all these years later to see the technical reasons I found them lacking no matter how popular.
Music clip before and after can be nice 🤠🇫🇮
@@morlidor you won’t hear it over UA-cam
@@stephenyoud6125 And I think people just send in one speaker for Danny to do his upgrades
Wow, that speaker seems huge, and the presence is very large.
what a transformation ! the owner of that will be amazed ,well done .
Hey Danny. Great video. I would love you to work on a pair of vintage EV's like the Interface range or the Patrician. Big ask but they certainly sounded good in their day. Keep up the good work my friend. Excellent content.
Now that's an upgrade that's worth the cost. The 150 is a forever speaker. The 60 is not. I'd love to find a pair of these.
Very nice work Danny. Didn't expect that kind of improvement.
This video is describing a problem and selling a solution. I'd like to see schematics or learn about the process of solving it.
Interesting data. It is hilarious how much these speakers command in the secondary market. Pioneer brand name pricing in general has become obscene.
Im surprised that you do not:
1) design and sell a bracing kit with the no- res sheets. CNC cut bracing that is glued in by the owner.
2) source and sell high quality potentiometers. They exist and guys are installing them in vintage amplifiers.
Haha, I would ACTUALLY consider something like the Infinity IRS-V's to be more of the TRUE "KING" of vintage speakers, but for more relatively "modest" setups these Pioneers are pretty nice too...
Another great upgrade video Danny, keep 'em coming, everyone appreciates the vintage gear nowadays, it seems!
You'll have to take the title up with my editor. He comes up with those and the thumbnails. Whatever grabs the most views...
aka internet click bait. i was born yesterday
@@hom2fuAt least Danny told you the truth.
ADS L1290
@@jamestyrer907 Those ADS speakers you mention are nice (smaller) tower speakers too, but have you ever even SEEN the Infinity IRS-V speakers, especially in combination with their matching subwoofer towers? I mean, we're supposed to be talking about the ALL TIME KING of vintage speakers here, so they're definitely gonna be something that makes almost ANYONE go "WOW!" (or something even more explicit), whenever they first see and/or hear them!
PS Audio in Colorado has a set of the infinity IRS-Vs in one of their demo listening rooms, and every time that Paul McGowan, the CEO of the company does a UA-cam video while standing next to them, I'm just blown away by their sheer size alone, as all four towers that make up the system, both of the front mains and both of the matching subwoofers, are all literally almost 8' tall, and the system weighs well over a TON!
If I'm ever up in the Denver area I'm definitely going to be stopping by their manufacturing plant there and visiting long enough to get to hear a demo of those speakers, along with their own new models for comparison!
Major applause for this!
How do you decide the right amount of damping material. Maybe a good tech tuesday subject😊
I hope someone sends Danny some Bose 301. Those were my dorm room speakers 🔊
I don't think there's any help for Bose products. Sorry. 😊
@@dextermorgan1 you could say the same for almost all the vintage speakers he gets
Currently using a pair of 301 series II. I've changed the front tweeters to a pair of old large Advent orange fried egg tweeters putting them in the same place with some angle brackets and wired in series with the back tweeters. I've also took out the old cross over and went with a simple first order at about 2600 hertz with a Solen 6.7 uF Cap. I did put a variable L- pad in the circuit and is stable at 9 olms the woofer has just a coil 0.5 mH so it's also first order. I put the L- pad in to bring the tweeters level down a few decibels as it was a bit brite for my taste. That was definitely an improvement. I think the bose tweeters at 2600 might be a comfortable low for them and a higher order cross over might be a benefit to lower the crossover frequency ( not much) and keeping the drivers from over lapping as much. So I would go for it because the original cross over was just a first order only on the tweeters. I had the fried eggs on hand so I used them....they are rather expensive at over a hundred bucks a pair. But I think the original tweeters okay. The biggest problem is that the tweeters play over the woofer . And the spring terminals are cheap. The original circuit on the tweeters is funky with a light bulb acting as a current limiter and a 8 olm resister all drivers and parts in series resulting in a 16 ohm tweeter circuit. I might try a second order cross over in the future. But at the very minimum put a coil on the woofer..It worked out great and I went first oder because it's what I had on hand. I think I would stick with 2600 hertz because the fs for the Bose tweeters is about 1300 hertz. Anyway going 2nd oder and using the original tweeters should be an improvement with some relatively inexpensive components will go a long way. Those tweeters have a high sensitivity so some attenuation will probably be necessary. And I did stuff the ports and have a subwoofer. There is a very small pair of speakers ( 4.5 inch mid base and 0.75 inch soft dome) sitting on top a piece of carpet and the pole pieces in a plane ( approximately) lined up with the Bose.wooofer . The small speakers are tilted in slightly and on a separate amplifier to control the relative volume. And the Bose tilted out slightly. The Bose are slightly below ear level and the small acoustic suspension speakers ( pretty high sensitivity and no deep bass , but excellentvocals) slightly above and sitting more to the middle depth. So I have a good sound stage. It's all stuff I had and made it work. Sounds good in my largish room in a finished basement. Last note I don't know what the power handling for those tweeters is, but I'm not listening to them at high volume either and I'm certain that the Bose will go away and open the circuit before the Advent tweeters and I do have a spare pair of Bose tweeters now kinda like a replaceable fuse.
Danny, great and fun. You do rock. Please, change your cloth in the room, because the speakers (usually black) disappear in the background. Merge. Or is your new listening room finished, so you can shoot there? Love it
Exactly what I was thinking. It's too dark to see
We are working on it.
Great video, but the number of commercials that UA-cam is now forcing us to watch is off the charts
Ah man. I am sorry. I can't do a thing about that either.
$11.99 per month plus tax is one of the best purchases I have ever done (to remove them) as those damn commercials are maddening!
@@pelked1Are you sure that’s what you’re paying - I just got bumped to nearly $19/mo at end of April.
Growing up we had a pair of Tamon TS-5000 speakers.... good looking 12" 3-way in a sealed cabinet, and they sounded great on our 25 wpc Pioneer receiver. I'd love to find a pair again, just for the nostalgia, but they are nowhere. I DID see a pair in a Tame Impala video in an In-Studio performance! Strange sighting.
Wow. Danny is really interesting to follow. Talented 👍
The improvement looks very impressive!! 😉👍🍺
Danny turned a "pie-in-ear" into a Pioneer
Hope someone sends in some Kappa-9s. Would love to hear Danny's take on these. A friend had a home theatre system based on these back in the late 80s. Man, were they loud! I do remember he had massive amps driving them.
Super impressive improvement, I would really appreciate seeing the crossover schematics and having the changes to them explained.
He doesn’t do that. You only see the schematics big you buy the kit. But I agree that’s what we need to see to learn more
@stephenyoud6125 I'm not going to buy his kits because I don't have any of the speakers that he does kits for, but I want to play around with old speakers that I have and understanding some of his techniques would be interesting.
Danny has his eye on his next Sports Car😂😂😂
Always amazing results.
OK. Understood. Sounds logic. Thanks Danny.
I am waiting for someone to bring you a JBL L-112 to confirm is much better in response than the 4311
Mahalo for this report. Now I know WHY my barracks roommate's HPM-1500 (an overseas equivalent) sounded kinda...incoherent...on the movie soundtracks I liked to play all the time. They seemed fine on my roommate's music...if you like rock music...but my weird music sounded even more odd. I still have the Realistic Minimus 7 speakers I bought back in 1979. They sounded nicer than these, but I wished I new which subwoofer I could've used with those little jewels.
Id like to see your view on the snell type E models, or even the type Ds or bookshelf models.
Send one in.
. You're an artist 👍
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Would love to see you tackle Klipsch speakers next
Oh man, we have done upgrades for a LOT of Klipsch speakers, and more than any other company.
Really? They've done TONS of Klispch speakers. Look back on old videos.
@@dannyrichie9743sorry! I should have clarified more vintage heritage Klipsch products!
@@dannyrichie9743Skunky Designs heard ur MK 2 upgrade speakers from Amazon and sent em back... Flat sounding or something
Filler speaker midrange, I am starting to understand Danny's design style.
"Peak Event" nostalgia ...
i have four of them when having the spec-1 and spec.-2 ,it was my father 76 system laster he bought a B series from Revox and gave me it´s Pioneer 76 catalog more expensive components, the speakers have all to be restored as inside the electronic parts don´t last 50 years, they seem to sound good but when installing new and equal electric pieces they become new again
Ran across this video.
Watched several more covering past couple of years.
His speakers are the only ones he really approves of.
My hearing at 71 yo is 50 to 11khz.
My point is, I never heardhim display any reaction orher than disgust, disdain and frustration over all speakers except his design. The designers at these wonderful (to my pathetic taste) speaker manufacturers are a bunch of hacks, according to him.
Never considers personal listening preference. Take his improvements with the beautiful graphs and put them in the majority of listeners rooms and hearing ability , and I m not sure it would make a major difference.
I suppose this is a channel for the special few such as himself.
Erin is more my speed. He is a humble guy that relates to people like me with this hobby. Different strokes.
You obviously have not watched too many of my videos. When they are good. I say that they're good. I praised several Polk models for good design work, two models from Mono Price, several Golden Ear models, a recent Emotiva model and a new Heco Aurora model that I just shoot a video on, but has not been released.
Our upgrades are not just different, they involve significant improvements, and our customers confirm that every day.
I want to see him do a pair of white vanners. See if he can bring some Digital Ready Acoustics to life.
A silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Brilliant!
Didn't TAD originally derive from the Pioneer Corp?
Wow, pretty awesome I wonder what they sound like now? Would you ever consider using a high quality mic with before and after sound?
Nothing better than a popular speaker with a hole in the response...
Does putting something like felt on a large front baffle like that help reduce the reflections?
Only in some frequency ranges.
Has Danny ever done LARGE ADVENTS?? Mine have been re done (surrounds) and really still sound good. Particularly for acoustic music and unprocessed vocals.
Which one do you find better sound after your improvement, the HPM-100 or HP-150 ?, I know the 150 have a deeper bass with that 15 inch woofer
I liked the 60 and 100 models.
A question for Danny: why do steel parts in the signal path cause problems? What problems are caused? Why?
They will hold a residual charge that smears the sound.
Steel is a ferromagnetic material, like an inductor core, that gets alternatively energized and de-energization with the audio signal. Due to the alternating magnetism, with the hysteresis delays involved, there will be some time smearing [along with some tiny signal loss]. Asymmetrical audio signals cause a retention of magnetism in the steel nuts, which then only serves to make the aforementioned phenomenon even worse. Sorry for the verbal diarrhea. 😳 Good day. 😉👍🍺
@@robinkleinsteuber5217 That is helpful information, not verbal diarrhea.
One thing I always ask myself on these mods GR does is distortion. And I wonder what the distortion levels are before and after the mods. My guess is they wouldn't look so good, but would be interesting to see what's happening. Of course distortion is an area that in speaker measurements is very much of a mystery zone. But in cases like on the Pioneer makes one wonder why invest any money to get closer to a modern speaker, where curves and specs will be more linear.
Distortion is actually more marketing than a real number. There is no industry standard for measuring distortion. It is also impossible to measure distortion accurately outside of anechoic chamber. In other words, the room noise or noise floor in the room is always present in the measurement. However, the whole thing is still a variable just like the room noise. Even room noise levels are constantly moving around. It is also easy to make the distortion numbers be anything you want them to be just by changing the input level.
At any normal levels the distortion is not going to be a factor or in any way a measuring stick for quality until power levels are such that compression starts taking place.
By far, the stored energy that we see in a spectral decay is a much greater distortion from the original input signal then what is going on in the harmonics of the drivers.
For that matter the resonances of the cabinet is by far a greater level of distortion. We seen instances where the application of No Rez alone will knock 15db or more of actual measured cabinet noise.
Normally, measured distortion in THD of a speaker that is playing at 1 watt/1 meter levels will have distortion levels below ambient room noise and will be in the 45 to 50db range. So it is not the factor that those in marketing would like to make it out as.
Hi Danny, I have seen and like the vintage upgrades you do, have you ever analyzed the JBL L166 horizon? I think its similar to their L100 but it has a few differences in the drivers.
Nice! If anyone could stop listening to their A/D/S they could send some to Danny!
The main tweeters and mids are available as new identical copies… just in case.
The woofers and top tweeter, not so much
Problem is, old drivers and old crossovers will have different response to new, so there are variables between better condition speaker than new. So how can you measure a speaker and use those results with owners where it could be wild difference between theres?
ADS L1290 or ADS did make larger speakers. Then there is the B&O M100.
Have you ever looked at an ADS L710, L810 or L1290?
Great explanation 👌🏻👏🏻👏🏻
May I know what's the best home theatre sound system in the market 10×20 room size, brand and model please?
The HPM 150 are good but I chose to buy the way better Pioneer DSS-9. Later, I wanted to buy the Pioneer Elite TZ-9 but I waited too long after I chose the DSS-9.
Pioneer's HPM were second tier compared to Pioneer's DSS and Elite speaker line.
I won't lie to you. I had a pair of HPM 100 by Pioneer and they were a disappointment. The ribbon tweeter didn't do a thing. The cabinets weight was 35 lbs. No crossover from my point of view. I redid them with better pieces from Eminence and seas. And yes I put felt insulation in to dampen the cabinet
You own the company US Coils. Plan on keeping it open??
The pre-upgrade measurements looked so bad it has me wondering if something was broken!
What did it sound like? The curves suggest a horrible midrange dominant, sound like you would get from a megaphone. But surely these must have sounded good in some respects to have sold well.
The super tweeter for sure must have been broken, though, to only give 65dB. Ferrofluid dried up?
Very good upgrade though, albeit a lot of money so the value, as someone else commented, is because the owner really loves the nostalgia of the cabinet design.
I gonna buy your changes with a hpm 900 if it comes.
nice! never got any of these big boys but had the smaller pioneers, but what i wanted to say is ain't that lift table a life saver? surprised more reviewers and modders don't use them
Ah man, we use the crap out of the lift table.
Wow! Bravo!
Stock HPM 150s definitely have some problems as you've outlined but in actual listening their sound somehow seems much less objectionable that the HPM 100s, at least to my ears.
Thanks
thanks...super info....soooooooo nice...love your videos .
I wonder what you can do with a pair of IMF TLS 50s .. each speaker is 100lbs so it would be a road trip
Holy moly
the best solution is to upgrade it to a hamster cage
Seems like with a lot of speakers of this era, it was more about real estate and novelty than acoustical fidelity....
Would this upgrade work on the HPM-1100 which was the successor to these?
I don't think so.
I had the HPM 1500 version...super tweeter was a fault in this speaker...always failed
Who looks charts when these speakers measumerements are the character of the speaker. Just buy some Neumann studio monitors with the measurement mic and you can get those charts right. Vintage speakers are for total different purpose...not just showing some measurements. Vinyl records have cracks, pops etc. Some wise measurement guys said when cd came that vinyls are useless.
Yeah, but a lot of people want them to sound better than that. It is also not just what the charts show. The differences in clarity, detail, and resolution are the result in a huge upgrade in parts quality.
Heard these woofers are inferior to rest of the hpms. Graphite woofers with foam surrounds that make very hard to change out when they rot. Hardly an upgrade
Danny, when are you going to make a super tweeter, just a small box that sits on top of the speaker. Make it open baffle so the sound reflects off the back wall and gives a big sound stage. Normally, super tweeter uses a ribbon tweeter. You are using a ribbon tweeter on you NSX range, you just need to get the manufacturer of this ribbon tweeter to make it go all the way up to say 80K Hz.
it´s not a tweeter it´s medium frequencies output the tweeter is up and the super tweeter also that not all can hear it, at least never heard anyone say that can hear it and they looked nice when new and still today they even look nicer as most of the speakers are tiny ,allthough they sound good if not with well made box and inside shaped to improve the diferent frequencies flow it´s not like better only good , i put inside a wooden (pine tree) box i had built myself in the 70´s and installed there a complete system from some mission 780 or Argonaut MKII and everybody who hears it says it sounds amazing, so big boxes do matter a lot ,take a look at the monitors used in studios to hear the recordings not the ones besides the mixing table, allthough all can be controlled from the main table, it depends of how everything is displayed in a studio as control section, sorry my english isn´t that good in technical matters
Misspelled "AR3a"
But what did you do to the super tweeter?
Is it parallel with the front tweeter? Or a separate crossover section?
It is paralleled onto it and limited to the top of the top octave.
@@dannyrichie9743 great job by the way 🙂
Any viewers out there that can recommend a pair of floor standing speakers in the $10,000 range ? Must be able to play very loud and clean. Large listening area. (blu-ray dvd rock concerts)
Have a look at our Bully model.
@@dannyrichie9743 I just finished checking them out. "wow" very impressive. Not what I am looking for unfortunately. I need a very aesthetically appealing cabinet (ie. Kanta's) or my wife will not be happy. These will be placed in our (new) open concept living room. That being said, I would absolutely love to hear the Bully's.
@@clasvirhodes4969 Come hear them.
They also look really nice in the veneered cabinets.
@@dannyrichie9743 I would love to but, not a big fan of flying. The older I get the more anxiety i experience while flying. Plus this whole "DEI" crap being forced on airlines is unsettling to say the least. That being said, just having a conversation with you would be worth the cost.
Danny Richie = Vladislav from Lithuania.
??? Someone that does the same? On UA-cam also?
Sveiki, aš iš Lietuvos,turiu šias kolonėles, gal galit Vladislav kontaktą
Lemme guess - the midrange driver has a closed frame? You said the cabinet is an open box; and they just put the drivers in where they physically fit. There is a LOT of low hanging fruit, so to speak!
Yes, the mids have a sealed back. I should have mentioned that.
I have no interest in vintage gear, nostalgia or not. Modern gear sounds far better. Those were fun party/dorm speakers, but that's it.
Absolutely false.
Pioneer's DSS and Elite speaker line are if maintained properly rival Canton, Tannoy or any other high end speaker line of today.
I know as I own Pioneer's DSS-9 and smaller DSS-7. I bought both in the mid 1980s.
Vintage speakers to be honest are crap. The technology just wasn't there to measure them properly. Now vintage electronics with modern speakers are magical.
Incredible transformation. Wow.
Danny looks like he's going all out to find the worst possible speakers and turn them into something listenable.
If he wants a real challenge he should have a crack at some Bose speakers. I doubt even he could get those abominations to sound anything but horrible.
I would never try to change anything on speakers like this, i`d keep everything as original as possible.
These are not for so called improvements. Their value lies in their own unique vintage sound.
Keep your hands of and keep them original.
Luv watching Danny do his magic but spend your money on more modern speakers
It's such a bad speaker with so many problems that it's not worth upgrading. it's also not so perfekt after upgrading
Looks cool tho
If you get them cheap, like buying them at an estate sale, putting in a few hundred dollars makes a lot of sense. If you get them expensive, like from a vintage audio retailer, then putting many more hundreds of dollars into that makes no sense whatsoever.
Well, you will get a special speaker. Not your average Pioneer from BestBuy. If you want something this large and beefy, you’ll need to pay a lot. See it as a fun speaker, fun project. Compare it to the KLH or Wharfdale ain’t the same. Search all life for something better, then you get nothing.
And never for the overprized Level of 900$/€. Joking. A good upgrade with jantzen high end components is for 400€/,pair.😅😅
Not so perfect? Old speaker and old drivers. What did you expect? So this speaker that are more accurate then before, it’s not good enough for you, when we go vintage? What’s your choice of speaker?