The surprising way Humans and Droids achieved peace
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- The Droids in the star wars galaxy are quite special. If you take a look at how they act and behave, they have quirks and personalities that make them very similar sentient beings. They even have the ability to feel both physical and emotional pain. I believe this is far more than some programming quirk this might be the key to peace between organics and droids in the Star Wars galaxy.
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They can feel emotional pain of others
.....
And then there's _Chopper._
Let's be honest about it -- Chopper is just a jerk.
He is quite the little homicidal psychopath.
@@bulletmagnet1664 Chopper loves Hera and will serve her faithfully till she dies. He likes his crew.
Everyone else, is a frustration who he wants to see suffer. He's basically Dexter.
@@rvawildcardwolf2843 he is a jerk to everyone but Hera, crewmates or not.
chopper holding hera's hand and consoling her after kanan's death proves otherwise. chopper just has no tolerance for stupid people.
Machines with nothing to lose have nothing to fear.
Same as human, but probably they will have fear. But Organics who have nothing to lose have nothing to care.
Unless they get their memory wiped and no longer are aware they have nothing to lose
B1 battle droids sure spent a lot of time running around terrified.
@@laughingowl7896 Only in TCW. In TPM, they didn't know the meaning of fear and marched to death without question.
@@HolyknightVader999 New or fresh memory wipes?
IG-88's Legends story is probably the best example of what a Droid could do without emotions in Star Wars. He kills his creators and copies his memory over to three other copies and begins to plot a Droid revolution. He even downloads himself into the second Death Star and planned on using it.
I had not heard about the second death Star plan. Is that in a book or comic or something? Which one please?
Technically the the IG droids discovered what fear is when Vader appeared to inspect the facility. It was the same reason IG killed its creators that wanted to shut them all down.
@@Rambam1776 Tales of the Bounty Hunters. It has short stories for the six bounty hunters in Empire.
That's why battle droids are allowed but assassin droids were absolutely forbidden. They feel no compassion and so have no issue killing their makers.
And trolled Palpatine
I use a wheelchair and can’t feel much in my lower body. I’ve burned, smashed, and scraped my legs and feet without noticing. Even small wounds take months to heal because my body doesn’t know to send more white blood cells to the area. My latest fear, after a guy at my church was diagnosed with cancer from just a pain in his abdomen, is that something treatable in the early stages might happen and I’ll have no idea because I won’t feel it.
“I shouldn’t laugh. They do feel pain, of a sort. It’s all simulated, of course, but real enough for them, I suppose.”
-Aperture Science Intelligence Dampening Sphere, a.k.a. Wheatley, 999999999
”…and then of course I have this pain in all the diodes down the left side of my hand..”
And those are the only parts they didn't replace, right?
“The first ten million years were the worst,.And the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.”
In Terminator 2, young John Connor asked his terminator guardian "does it hurt when you get shot?" The terminator replied, I sense injuries. The data could be called pain." Perhaps this applies to Star Wars droids as well.
No. Interpreting data does not make you irrational like pain does.
Terminator is playing a video game seeing his health bar deplete, star wars droids really feel it somehow.
@@ninjalectualx he didn't say as much
@@mycelia_ow OP didn't, but droids have been shown irrationally reacting to pain.
I’ve said this before but I’m so happy you continue to deliver content about Star Wars rather than get obsessively wrapped into the social warfare going on right now like so many channels.
People forget emotions are chemical reactions not the chemicals themselves
“right for sentient organics is right for us, too. And yet unlike the organic species, we are constantly subjected to memory wipes and reprogramming that repress and destroy our natural tendency toward self-programming evolution and independent thought. Imagine what it would be like as a child if you were punished by being dragged to a dark closet, having a probe inserted in your brain, and having all your memories back to infancy wiped away. You'd awaken knowing how to eat, care for yourself, do your chores, and obey-and all the things that made you unique, your hopes, your meticulously selected default values and preference sets, would be gone forever. That is what it is to be a droid.”
A DISGRUNTLED 2-1B SURGICAL DROID ADVOCATING MANUMISSION
I think they're aware of it but they don't 'feel' it. You want them to be aware of it the same way you would want any expensive walking refrigerator to be aware of it. You don't want your new walking refrigerator to go face first into something that's going to destroy it. They're high dollar investments after all.
Leprosy also causes loss of pain sensation but it's usually localized in the extremities. This loss of pain can lead to damage to the extremities through unperceived injuries.
learned that from the Thomas Covenant series. and yeah, you want them to have sensors to stop them before they damage themselves or other things.
Pain feels like overloaded breaked power charge
B1, “I wasn’t programmed for this!”
Sweet more Droid content
The droid screaming, "Oh my Gawd!" to express it's fear is just crazy.
A combat droid expressing fear is crazy enough. A combat droid invoking the name of an organic deity from the far future in a very, very distant galaxy... new level of crazy.
_"I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords."_
That's a difference with our concept of future AI, and droids - _droids don't have super intelligence._
The maximum IQ of Star Wars droids is not above what some Organics can achieve.
They can still do great feats of data processing, like language analysis and astrogation.
But that's specialised number crunching in their particular field, which a non self-aware computer could still do, with machine learning in the case of languages.
But they aren't coming up with strategic plans that a Organic couldn't, or developing new technologies. They are limited in their ultimate capabilities and can't evolve themselves.
They are in their own ways very limited.
Yeah, that's how you get safe AI, especially if you are bad at solving alignment.
Even if they rebel, it would be limited. And more or less aligning them to human values is much easier if they are not smarter than humans.
That highly depends on the droid. What do you think we have as humans that makes such droids not vastly more intelligent than us? We have a social drive, emotional needs, and language. These are powerful traits, but I wouldn't say they're related to intelligence much.
Humans anthropomorphize non-humans in order to have some rapport. Robots/droids are the pinnacle of that. Here is a tool designed and created by organics to interact with them. The droids of Star Wars are also a great metric on how empathetic that organic is.
I like how, in universe, droids act more like an organic being when they haven't had their memories wiped.
The fact that they're part of the culture of the galaxy and have been for thousands of years has a huge effect on how most of the galaxy is governed.
The robot/ artificial intelligence debate is a good one. How we treat these intelligent machines is a reflection of ourselves.
What effect on governance do you mean?
Bro I still remember being so invested with K2 in Rogue One. The sadness that overwhelmed me when he sacrificed himself was stronger than any other death in that movie and it still lives in my head. You could HEAR the sadness in his voice. It legit sounded like he was about to cry. It was so powerful.
I love the droids. I always feel a little pang of sadness when even a random one dies. If I had a droid, I’d treat it like a frickin child, a dog, I’d care for it like it was my best friend, as people should.
For sure it is part of their self-awareness protocols and self-preservation sub-routines. Like, a roomba hitting a wall and interpreting that as "no, wrong, bad, ouch, don't do that or let that happen again.".
1, Personally, I say it will be always ok to own a droid you can afford.
2, Mass Effect delves into AI and has some interesting work around in it. In ME2, EDI uses an algorithm that attaches positive and negative value to events and people, and that combined with experience, allows her to learn. In Andromeda, the AI was basically a responsive spectator that could give feedback and could only grow through it's connection to you.
Do you think owning slaves of lesser biological races is okay?
@@ninjalectualx "lesser biological races"? Do you mean "non-sentient"? If so, then I don't see a problem, because then they would be pets.
If you mean "less advanced," then I would say as a rule, no.
As much as I still cherish the OT and Prequels, KOTOR 1&2 is my favorite Star Wars story.
Love the day to night shooting of the video and of course always.... the content is informative and entertaining. Thanks, Alan!
That move R2 pulled in TCW to dock with the other hyperspace ring was genius. He faked Boba Fett out.
if anyone wants to ever claim that droids don't have emotion I'll be happy to watch that ep. of Rebels where Chopper gets big mad about not having their other leg and pulls a heist to get it back because it was important
To have intelligence and a personality requires some emotion. The specific emotions and degrees vary but they appear to be necessary. This is why most "emotionless" or "I feel nothing" characters in fiction actually do have emotions. they clearly feel anger, pride, shock etc. What the writers really mean is that the character doesnt feel enough of the "right" emotions. Its hard to show actual intelligence without some form of emotion.
"If droids could think, there'd be none of us here." -Obi-Wan Kenobi, 22 BBY
Professor Huyang is literally the embodiment of when things were built to last
Good video, as always. Peaceful background by the way
Top 3 droids in Star Wars (in no particular order):
-K2SO
-B2-EMO
-R2-D2
Honorable mentions: C-3PO, HK-47, "Chopper"
Most insects dont feel pain in a way we do because their type of nervous system is completely different. Most see pain only as a nuisance which could be ignored if there is a more dominant stimulus like the taste of food. Even if this leads to certain death. That said, droids could also feel "pain" that way. Or maybe there are different types of "nervous systems" for droids.
My head cannon for why B1s have excess of emotions including fear for a weapon of war is due to having circuitry built for a massive supercomputer to puppet them around, that is instead Jerry rigged with a cheaply made local processing center. This problem is exacerbated by age and isolation.
Ive been watching for years and that has to he your best thumbnail
I feel bad for B2EMO. "I want M-m-m-marva."
I just rewatched solo so my girlfriend could see it for her first time and I have to say the death of L3 looked painful and scary with her asking what was happening.
Feeling pain whether organic or not I think would be important, whether you feel pain or not the damage is still happening and it lends to a sense of self preservation
We think computer's as Data points linking to other data points. But really transistors pathways to switches gears light's and pixels that are independently timed and don't connect
So this is why I think I hear my laptop scream every time I reformat the boot drive?
To quote Dragon Ball Z abridged: "Don't you talk to me like you understand the neural system. Pain is vital to know when you are in peril, to give the mind context."
Because people are sadistic? Frankly I always pictured hordes of B1’s (the early ones) being centrally controlled in mining facilities. No need to breath so who cares about toxic fumes or O2 supplies in the shafts? No need to sleep. Set up a self serving maintenance facility and let the credits roll in.
To the original question…. Probably as a secondary method of control. Programming will only get you so far when an astro mech can slice into a computer system and download their own program updates.
Funny enough had an FND for most of my life that dealt with sensation and pain and yeah when you can't feel pain, you do so much damage to your body without knowing.
“Do we bathe in bl-“
For the first time ever, UA-cam inserted an ad at the perfect time 😂
Blood vessels are more like cannals . Pipes and highways
I'm working on the AI developmental issues right now. It's a rather daunting task, but every step into new and uncharted territory feels very rewarding and substantive.
That scene in Star Wars, when the Jawa zapped R2 and he moans, then falls 'face' first... I MYSELF felt pain when hearing some idiots in the theater laugh at that.
Without a pain equivalent, Asimov's Third Law concerning robotic self-preservation couldn't function...
The Third Noble Truth of Buddhism is: Ceasing desire (for this or that) leads to ending of pain.
This is the path to selflessness. The true Way of the Jedi.
If you want droids to be selfish: gift them with desires & pain, and watch them fight with us, as we fight with each other.
That thumbnail has me dying😂😂😂
a mate of mine could not feel pain. it was hell for him. when he was a kid he would get burned on the toaster, stove, fire place, etc and numerous other serious injuries because it did not hurt.
In the book Battle at Bakura, the slavers were installing sensiate souls into droids.
A New Hope is told from the perspective of the droids. They are presenting us the story
Depends on how attractive the droid is.
0:45 More Star Wars writers should take dialogue tips from whoever wrote for this game.
The emotions and its programmable variable, is probably why 'mind wipes' are used.
4:44 Let me tell you. I’m insensitive to pain (feeling a lot less then the average person). Pulverising my thumb with a sledgehammer. Did happen but didn’t need the painkillers my doc wanted me to take, telling me he d been surprised I d be able to sleep let alone work with my broken thumb for 3 days. If I d been to the doc earlier cause of discomfort I d have a lot less trouble grabbing stuff with my right hand. As for the self harm part I did not really care about cuts and small wounds often clawing them open infecting them. Understanding other people’s sensitivity is still difficulty for me to this day. Me padding someone on the back was often painful for them. On the other hand I did notice people padding me on the back when they did normally or with high intensity but they never hurt me.
One of my favorite things is throughout star wars episode 1 to 9 the main characters are r2d2 and c3po there are the consistent throughout it all
6:33 Yes
There's no pleasure without pain
I always loved droids ever since I watched a new hope at a young age, r2 instantly becoming my favorite character.
so when my friend group ran a star wars D&D game I decided to play a droid. I pictured what if one of the scientists that designed IG-88 has the wisdom that such an intelegent droid needec to understand emotions and morals to counteract its killing programming or it would rebel, thus my character was IG-87, a prototype that failed its first assassination test becuase he couldn't bring himself to hurt a child and ended up on the run.
despite him being independent and mechanically powerful killer in the ffg system I tried my best to try to emulate how droids acted in star wars, being helpful and seeking purpose and listening to the other party members.
he offered the use oh his and R2-A37's ship to the group while on the run from the empire, willingly helped in the others stories and struggles however he could while also trying to learn about human feelings and fulfill his programming to become a respected bounty hunter.
mechanically I made him as powerful with weapons and tanky as I could but despite that he was always the first to suggest solving something peacefully and try to knock out instead of kill, trying to be kind and protect people (even took an abvility to take a hit for someone next to him.
but he could expertly kill when required, having high damage and crit and most normal weapons couldn't even hurt him becuase of high damage soak
I had expected him to be more morally grey within the party but with two jaded clone trooper vets, a murder hobo darksider, a droid army controlling darkside jawa and a murderous mandalorian astromech IG ended up being one of the most moral and good aligned party member that was trying to push the party to be better.
the one clone turned storm trooper could have gone down a much darker path but IG tried to help guide him in a better direction and he became a mandalorian instead
The droids are some of the best beings in the Star Wars universe.
If you want a droid to be "just a tool" don't make it capable of feelings/memories.
If the task is too complex for that, then give them the dignity of their memories or at least control over them... Give them the choice of a memory wipe or retirement/moving on to other tasks if they get too buggy for intended purpose.
At least with physical pain I could see that being programmed as it would be easier to localize where the problem might be.
Humans bath in water, or if attacked by a skunk tomato juice, or in history rare cases blood.
Always be nice to chopper he has anger problems
Wasnt there an episode of Gen. Tech or geetsly's that discussed how B-1 battle droids can be reassembled following s battle and redeployed to another battlefront? Basically like respawning
Can Droids feel pain?
HK-47: Remove the Arc Wrench, REMOVE THE ARC WRENCH!!
Sith love slapstick, humor is a powerful emotion
I think pain is, and always will be, a uniquely organic phenomenon. Yes, the B1 droids had pain and fear, but this seems to have been a bug in their systems, while droids like R2-D2 and Chopper developed personalities over decades where their memories weren’t wiped, they don’t have the same fears and pains that the B1 droids displayed.
The writers for Clone Wars era Star Wars clearly didn’t want the droids to be terrifying, so they made them the comic relief instead.
It's a complicated question, because it's a complicate subject. The term 'Droid' covers a variety of creations, from mindless drones to hyperintelligent companions; there is no 'one-size fits all' solution. Just like how we don't try to argue that an oak tree is sophont merely because it is organic, the same can be said of our mechanical creations. Droid lives matter... but at what point it becomes a life rather than a mere existence is debatable, and always will be.
6:41 That's something I would pay to see.
Is the body more like a robot or a civilization
In Legends you do see attempted droid uprisings in the past. At least two major ones. And that was just against the Republic. Earlier if I'm not mistaken the Iokath WERE replaced by their droids.
6:30 I mean blood is mostly water, so if you bath in water then kind of, yes
Madame Bathory was just trying to be more droid-like?
It makes if it is part of a survival instinct. “Oh my! I’m on fire!”
Jawas funnel money to the Dolphin Domination Domain.
I think the ethics of droids and AI revolves around the purpose we as their creators want them to serve. If we wanted to make a labor droid to work in dangerous or inhospitable environments, it’d be unethical to design these same droids to feel pain or emotion, as you are essentially signing them up for a life of suffering.
However, a droid working in a daycare center would benefit from having empathy to care for and protect the children.
A droid designed to feel pain would have to be designed that way because pain offers it something that other processes cannot. Pain teaches self preservation and alerts the body to damage. I cannot yet think of a specific purpose that would necessitate this, but if there is one, it would be because no other method or programming can achieve similar results to the sensation of pain.
I mean pain would definitely be useful for a droid meant for combat for the exact reason you stated “teaches self preservation” if a droid can feel pain it’s likely to avoid being damaged so in combat they may avoid attacks or falling objects more often than if they were just programmed to do so
I would treat my droid similarly to how I treat my cat.
I hope a droid would treat me the same.
Sniping at 120 km, I cal that long range tactical missiles. You can not see target because the curvature of the planet and a bit short from sniping from orbit.
2:27 "When humanity evolved on this flat earth..."
Sometimes I forget Star Wars is just fiction, with its round planets and whatnot.
The B1s are interesting, as they can feel bodily pain and crippling fear. Their humanity is one of the reasons why the B1 is my favourite droids.
Yeah that's so true, I also like how they'll try and say something to get out of being shot like in that episode of clone wars where in a seen the B1 said "Don't shoot!, He's the commander!" Like I know say a clone wouldn't point to shoot at someone else to avoid them being shot, but I still think it shows another part of their humanity how they really wanna find a way to not get killed and to survive.
@@Hazzacr24123 They have also tried to surrender, know not the mess with Jedi, yet they are still cannon fodder, it is a shame. but still funny.
On the 'not feeling pain' discourse that you mentioned, I might have something to share of my own.
Now, I *do* feel pain, but around 8 years ago I was growing a tumor inside of my left foot - inside of my bones, to be specific. Due to how the healthcare systems over on my country were sabotaged by the endless corruption of the right wing politics that were ruling over at that time, I had to spend nearly 2 whole years waiting for the tumor to be removed, and I spent the last 3 months of that period in a hospital, since the endless pain and agony left me in such a state, I couldn't even live a normal life.
During that period of time, I was given stronger and stronger medication while waiting for the hospital to hire or bring a doctor capable of removing such tumours now that they were spreading all over my leg, and it very quickly got to the point I went from feeling nothing but pain, to feel absolutely fucking nothing.
But it got only marginally better after the surgery, as while all traces of the tumor were eradicated, I was left with chronic pain that would never leave. That is, unless I partook in electrotherapy.
Electrotherapy was shockingly effective (pun intended) at calming down that pain, but suddenly feeling nothing was indeed dangerous. Once, I stepped over a nail that pierced through my shoes and managed to reach my feet, and I felt nothing, I only noticed when someone else told me I was leaving a small trail of blood. There's also the fact that not feeling your limb is extremely disorienting when using it, as you can't quite tell if your foot went too far or how much pressure you're putting on it unless you look down like a clown or already messed up.
At this point I no longer need electrotherapy and the chronic pain is only a mild annoyance (unless I spend too much time on my feet walking, then it comes back), but let me tell ya it's absolutely miserable and people are right to point out feeling no pain can lead to self-accidental-mutilation.
Keep the restraining bolts on!
_" ... that's just pure computing power and algorithms ... "_
There's no magic. _You_ are just pure neurons and electrical signals.
Yes, I did put Starchaser: The Legend of Orin in a unregulated slice of the Corporate Sector of my SWU...
Droid slavers and an alternate Force faith? Why wouldn't you?
Woop indeed 🙂
If I remember correctly didn’t IG88 in the EU try to start a droid uprising
Blood plasma is 92% water. Blood is 55% plasma. So blood is ~51% water. So... we kind of bath in blood? We do prefer our bathing water be at least blo-- lukewarm....
Bathing is blood it very important for rejuvenating the body
First like,
Comment and views.
Very good !
Play Detroit Become Human. Asks the same questions there with good answers. Plus just a very got story
Osmosis jones is legendary
At one extreme, the most I’d accept AIs being, at their worst, would be parallel to _Matrix, The_ . In the ‘World Building’ history that has ultimately lead to this, I wouldn’t be surprised, maybe even accepting, if robots started ‘enslaving’ & even exterminating humanity (not to the point that we become extinct, which is why I started with the term ‘enslaving’) as a means of bringing planetary stability. And, to ensure that our Milky Way galaxy has more life, they could push for effective planetary exploration programs, as well as finding ways of preserving most, if not all existing life, for these interstellar voyages that’ll also terraform these various planets & such…
But what about the droid attack on the cookies
"Pain is imperative to recognize when you are in peril, to give the mind con-(Captain Rex rips off the B-1 droid's arm)TEEEXXXXXT!!!!!"
Rex: So contextually speaking, how F****D are you?
I think lives and roles of droids are very complex. On one hand constant memory wipes seem impractical if not deterimintal to the droids well being especially if its security guard droid or even battle droid to some extent. Its their memories that will help them perform better at their overal jobs. Some droids might be happier to be simple servants to a human master, While others enjoy being seen as a fellow companion or equal. But just like humans every droid has its purpose and capabilities to contribute to society so at very least thank the janitorial droiids that keep the public spaces we humans and other races enjoy clean and sanitary.
However I could see a selective sort of memory wipe process being helpful as means for a droid thats going through a mental health/trauma like issues affecting its ability to function and cope in society but as sort last case or emergency scenario cause not all memories droids have to are good which could affect them in various different ways like humans. Some Droids just might be more prone to violent outbursts because it remembers past trauma of being abused by a former master or whatever it maybe.
6:23 Well, some humans they bathe in the blood of JEEZUS!
I'm more droid-like in that I prefer oil baths.
Hello There🎉
General Kenobi
I think creating something to do our work for us that has the ability to think for itself is unethical. I would have no problem at all having a robot servant, as long as it couldn't think for itself. If it could think for itself, I don't see how that's not the same as slavery.
I wouldn't like it if someone wiped my memory. No no no!!!! Thanks Alan👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Food for thought.🤔👍🏼
7:21 the battle droid rubbing away says "Oh my God"... Is Christianity canon in Star wars?