Edward Gibson: Human Language, Psycholinguistics, Syntax, Grammar & LLMs | Lex Fridman Podcast
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2024
- Edward Gibson is a psycholinguistics professor at MIT and heads the MIT Language Lab. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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TRANSCRIPT:
lexfridman.com/edward-gibson-...
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OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
1:13 - Human language
5:19 - Generalizations in language
11:06 - Dependency grammar
21:05 - Morphology
29:40 - Evolution of languages
33:00 - Noam Chomsky
1:17:06 - Thinking and language
1:30:36 - LLMs
1:43:35 - Center embedding
2:10:02 - Learning a new language
2:13:54 - Nature vs nurture
2:20:30 - Culture and language
2:34:58 - Universal language
2:39:21 - Language translation
2:42:36 - Animal communication
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![Can language change the way you think? [The Science of Arrival]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lIPi3OiaG3I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Can language change the way you think? [The Science of Arrival]](/img/tr.png)
Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
Transcript: lexfridman.com/edward-gibson-transcript
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
- Yahoo Finance: yahoofinance.com
- Listening: listening.com/lex and use code LEX to get one month free
- Policygenius: policygenius.com/lex
- Shopify: shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial
- Eight Sleep: eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings
1:13 - Human language
5:19 - Generalizations in language
11:06 - Dependency grammar
21:05 - Morphology
29:40 - Evolution of languages
33:00 - Noam Chomsky
1:17:06 - Thinking and language
1:30:36 - LLMs
1:43:35 - Center embedding
2:10:02 - Learning a new language
2:13:54 - Nature vs nurture
2:20:30 - Culture and language
2:34:58 - Universal language
2:39:21 - Language translation
2:42:36 - Animal communication
GOD BLESS YOU
Tabla Indian🇮🇳⁉️ instrumental crypto language incredible⁉️⁉️⁉️ who invented tabla language code Alien language ⁉️⁉️🇮🇳
I draw perfectly sideways automatically and I resolve P=NP with it - because I don't know what I'm drawing - it's an NP simulaiton - I think I'm drawing pseudorandom lines - try it and see if you get a perfectly sideways even styled transposed illustration you didn't know you could draw at all - not even in your regular drawing perspective. It's interesting. It involves mental rotation tasks - look that up in psych papers - men and even baby boys are allegedly the best at it - I'm the best at it.
Totally nerding out on Language. I loved it, Lex, thanks.
I can fix it! 🎬
Man the study of language is underated imo
Isn't it wild how this happened. The old adage the Sandler has torn sandals. Tucker Carlson doesn't own a TV I just learned...lol
The bombshell of this episode is that neither of them have an inner monologue. And Lex doesn't think that's odd 😂
Ooh I haven't made it that far yet, that's interesting! I can't even wrap my head around what it would be like without it. Uncomfortably silent? Lol 😂😅
For real XD
Same
Agree 🤯
If a person does not have an internal monologue he thinks in images right?
I just smile from the excitement which with this guy talks about language, i'm not even intrested in languages
i just love listenting to someone you really can tell absolutely loves what hes talking about
If every teacher i had in high school and college would have been half as passionate about the subject as Mr. Gibson is about language, school would have actually been fun. 😮
only a fool can ask for "passion" as an attribute, passion is something that has value only when you have previously achieved many other things such as integrity, discipline, experience, vision, clarity, etc. otherwise your passion is worth less than excrement
If all teachers had a based salary of 100K, passion would araise among them. ❤
❤ I'm just 6 minutes into this conversation, but am already so excited that i wanted to comment immediately. I'm an English teacher and these are the things i obsess over. Thank you to both of you ❤❤
The kid who ate the one marshmallow
My favorite part about watching lex is that he is so smart he is able to take what someone else is talking about, that is way over my head head, and dumb it down to something I feel like I sort of understand.
You are right and he also seems to ask the most interesting relevant g e r m a n e questions
This video is like a warm hug for the soul. It's a testament to the positive impact content creators can have on their audience.
I thought it was boring
The guests make me want to change my areas of study!
Life is too short and there is so little time to devote to goals and there are too many wonderful domains to dig into.
😩
Thank you, Lex and Professor Gibson. It is not often that an entire podcast episode speaks "my language."😊
This was sooo much more interesting than I had anticipated. Excellent guest
I urge everyone to learn a language. As a German speaker, learning English opened up the entire world for me, Spanish helped me understand a whole continent, Japanese lets me understand so many media I enjoy... I can't get enough, it's so much fun, inexpensive and stays with you, no matter how hard life gets. Plus, the more rare the language you learn is, the bigger the smile once a person from that country realizes you took the time to learn it.
Agreed. I took 2 years of Latin in HS, 1 year of Portuguese, and 3 years of Spanish. It taught me etymology, syntax, and patience with people. It later helped me work with non verbal Portuguese and Spanish students with autism. Comes in handy and is a good conversation starter in school systems like where I work
I loved linguistics so much in college that I ended up doing a whole extra major in it. It's great to see Lex finally discovering some of the fascinating and mind-blowing concepts in linguistics.
This podcast is a goldmine of insightful conversations! Each episode feels like diving into a pool of knowledge, with engaging hosts who know how to keep you hooked from start to finish. Highly recommend for anyone seeking thought-provoking content! ❤
Now, now. I like Lex, but let's not get overboard. He's great when he has a good guest, not so much when he has just another joker from the Rogan universe.
Take an inner dialogue poll, Lex! Thanks for the language episode! I hoped there would be more digging into how language shapes the fundamental architecture of thought. Take nouns. Nouns refer to objects, for instance a ball. Think of a ball, is it solid? Is it static? Is it absolute? In your mind it probably is. Even if the ball is bouncing or spinning, itself is a ball as you know it. But in reality, the ball is a process. Electrons are humming within, light is reflecting from its surface, its elements are decaying. The ball is a process, a verb in reality, its more so a "balling" if you will. We need a way to refer to specific snapshots or states, so nouns are necessary. But its easy to see how language influences thought.
Oooo you’ve just blown my mind a bit!
After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??
Thanks to my co-worker (Alex) who suggested Ms Mary Elizabeth Webb .
She's a licensed broker in the states 🇺🇸
After I raised up to 325k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states also paid for my son's surgery (Oscar). Glory to God.shalom.
Wow that's nice She makes you that much!! please is there a way to reach her services, I work 3 jobs and trying to pay off my debts for a while now!! Please help me.
I just got off sam altman's vid and theres a brand new one. Talk about fortuitous timing. Keep up the grind Lex we're loving the content.
We?
Nerd feasting.
First Rogan has Gram & Dibble now Lex has Gibson!
What a week!
The fact that he said "engineering perspective" that early in the show means they are destined to be best friends.
Another conversation only Lex could've pulled off. Enjoyed the enthusiasm of the conversation. The topic is quite interesting and thought provoking
I had a serious stroke in 2006. I spoke English, German, Spanish, and Japanese prior to that. Then, after the stroke I could barely speak English. My doctor, Jonathan Rosand ❤ at Mass General Hospital, told me you can get more back than you think if you only ask your brain to do it. I took his word and began the process of getting them back. I started with German. The footpath to my German became a super highway 6 years later on a 2 week trip to Germany. This encouraged me to go get my Spanish back. Two years of DuoLingo and a Trip to Peru, and BAM! Got that one back too. I have now been studying Japanese on DuoLingo for 1447 days and will go to Japan in November. I am thrilled to say that I now read Japanese better than when I lived there 30 years ago for 2 1/2 years! Never EVER underestimate the plasticity of the brain! It can overcome some serious stuff! This podcast underlines that point! ❤
As always, just a thank you. You always do it right, Lex. Elegance, intelligence, class, and a sprinkle of badazz. Cheers to you and your journey.
When I first saw the title I thought it would be a boring conversation. But after skipping it and then returning back to it I found it quite interesting. Perhaps because I can better understand it for it to be interesting (rather than something that is esoteric and unique but is too difficult to understand that I can’t get invested in).
Well done Lex and Ed! :)
I feel smarter every time I listen to a Lex Fridman podcast.
lexicon fridgeman
I have an inner voice but it's not like I'm hearing someone talking to me. It's me talking in my thoughts, without using my tongue and air. This is something that any person in the world does, including you Edward Gibson.
I love how lex refers to himself as a “layman” while clearly having a better grasp on most topics than anyone else that would give themselves that moniker.
From a psycholinguist listener, thanks for this, Lex!
I love this episode! My undergraduate degree was in linguistics, and while I didn't find a way to make a career out of it, I never stopped loving to learn about language. My favorite part about my coursework was that it was like solving word puzzles in a scientific or mathematical way. Thank you for the great listen!
*Words with venom. Words that bind. Words used like weapons to cloud my mind*
I’m a person. I’m a man. But no matter how I try, people just say hey…
Respect ✊✌
I'm a horsey, I like to play, why do these humans keep feeding me hay?
@@thereallablog feeding you hay? Their feeding us hey, Not hello, because in the mind me must knot hello, to understand the mask of the spelling be is competition.
Watching Lex get flustered over the internal monolog thing was great. I went through the same range of emotions when i first heard some people don't hear themselves think.
So they just pay attention to emotions then? My thoughts tend to create my emotions.
Are thoughts called inner monologue?
Thank you @lex for this opportunity to learn from the awesome Dr Gibson. This should be one of the top podcasts. Thank you both of you.
Thanks for this conversation, Lex. I've always been fascinated by the development and use of languages.
In (old) Hampshire "Aught I?" And "Aughtn't I?" _Are_ both perfectly acceptable (formal/class dependent) forms (Winchester, etc.)
ol' Hampshire
@@maxwarboy3625 no, just; 'ampshire.
😜
Today I learned, center embedding makes sentences harder to understand.
I guess I knew that subconsciously, but it never occurred to me that I should avoid it if possible when writing text.
No, you do not have to avoid it. His point was that if it was not fixed by so called distance rules that it would be and he claims it is whereas Comsky claims the rules must be in the brain because a child can figure it out easily which would be very difficult to programmatically calculate. Chomsky is obviously correct because a child easily figure it out. So relax and speak the way you want to speak. Your brain "knows" what to do do, linguistics is interesting but not needed to learn how to speak correctly. Most people soon forget al the grammer and terminology they learned at school and a hell of a lot we learned was simply incorrect. Relax. You are quite capable of winging it.
@@reallynow6276 In most spoken contexts just winging it is just fine.
But in writing, there's plenty of room to "craft" text, not only to make it easier to understand, but to make sure it's precise and it's conveying the intended intended message.
You can also tailor the text to the intended audience and make sure the text is not "too dense".
So, absolutely you can use your conscious mind to make better text.
Even in speech, there's plenty of room to practice being a good communicator. For example, don't speak too fast, don't use a ton of jargon to a layman, but do with an expert. Double check not only that the receiver received the message, but also that they have the appropriate context to interpret it. Try to err on the side of being explicit and unambiguous.
So, one of the advices in being a better communicator is the advice to make sure to not use center embedding if it will hurt comprehensibility.
@@reallynow6276lmao, your answer is the perfect example of something that is hard to understand because of long distance and center embedding :D
This illustrates why center embedding is hard to process: we can say "The rat ate the malt"--no problem. We can add a clause inside and get "The rat the cat killed ate the malt" and understand it again without a problem. However, further center-embedding is where our brains give up: "The rat the cat the dog chased killed ate the malt."
@@reallynow6276 For clarity of expression, you should avoid too much center-embedding as my example above illustrates. And the question raised did not have to do with learning how to speak correctly; it was exploring the nature of the language ability and why certain constraints on possible or preferred constructions exist.
Amazing interview. Lex asks all the right questions. Dependency grammar is fascinating.
I too love a bunch of formal language theory, Lex. Good stuff, Edward!
Regarding language learning, let's take my son as an example. He's originally Ukrainian but was born and lives in Italy. At 14, he fluently speaks Ukrainian, Russian, and Italian, while his English proficiency is currently at A2 level. He's currently attending Cambridge courses to reach B1 level. He frequently watches UA-cam videos in English, which helps him understand the language better. What's amusing is that we never formally taught him how to read and write in Ukrainian and Russian. One day, when he was 6 years old, he spontaneously asked us about all the letters on the keyboard. That's all now he can read in Russian and Ukrainian, albeit slowly compared to Italian and English. This illustrates that if you truly desire something, you'll achieve it, but if you're only doing it out of obligation, it will likely become tedious.
Love seeing “I Am That” in the background.
Me too 🥰
Phenomenal podcast Lex. Good work, Well done❤
Fascinating interview Lex. Another great job.
Awesome guest ❤
I actually found a post about people who can think in two languages, mostly europeans, this was great, because I think in two languages as well, and just took that for granted, until a forein student learning to speak english, asked me: when do you know that you are fluent? I tought about that and this is what I came up with: I learned to speak 3 languages before I was 10 years old, and don't know how. Italian first, at home, went to French at school, but was surrounded by the English culture, because we lived in the Ottawa region, which shares a border with French Quebec. My Englilsh was really good, but not as good as my French. I was thinking in French, and then translated my thinking into English. It wasen't until I was about 19, and had spent a couple of years speaking nothing but English, that I woke up in the middle of the night from a nightmare in English, that I realised that I could think in both languages. This was very exciting at the time, forgot all about the nightmare, and started playing with the ability.
It is good to know, that not everybody, who can think in two languages, did not wake up from a nightmare to find that out.
But if you can dream (or day dream) in an other language, you are fluent in both.
By the way, I do hot hear a voice in my head when I think either, it feels more that thinking is separate from speach. Maybe because I had to translate at such a young age.
For example, it is much easier to understand reading and writing in a second language, than to actually speak it. I know that from sending my kids to French immersion school, from forming early language formation in English. All immersion students read and write and understand French better than they can speak it.
What I call usage, (frequency of word use as you put it) is key to ability to speak a language well. After spending only 2 weeks in small town Quebec, in a student family exchange program, the children could speak much more fluently, than previously.
Thank you for increasing my understanding as to why this is, it was great to hear about what happens in your brain, when you go from thinking to speaking!
If anyone likes fiction novels with very decadent language, pick up Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafon. It’s like your eyes are eating dessert.
Back to my favorite kind of Lex. High-grade intellectual enjoyment.
this topic has always fascinated me. thanks! once again : )
Your conversation was pleasant, thank you both.
Thank you for doing what you do Lex!
Love this pod, love that you have such a wide variety scope.
As a Finn, I just waited how long it takes for them to mention our crazy language. (It was less than 30 minutes. Torille!) Learning english as a kid was a revelation about how different languages actually work. Yet people everywhere still speak the same stuff, no matter the language.
I love episodes like these. I hope you continue to find people with interesting niche expertise like this.
Spain has a huge tradition on grammar. We study those trees in secondary school for years
Just listen to 90% of people under 30. Most of the language used is on a broken, low level, underdeveloped scale now. Its almost as if it is devolved into something more crude than anything spoken/written in any other time. Songs, poetry, speeches, debates, are all pretty elementary in today's culture. I hope it becomes trendy again to learn a wide range vocabulary.
Great interview. Thank you
Yes. I refer to it as “text to talk”
Yes. There is a strong emphasis on concision. People want easy answers and summeries. It drives me crazy when people say you expand too much but do not actually focus on the line of argument and then insist on a summery as though that would clarify the content. There is no shortcut to knowledge, is what I want to say then, but I let it go because it wil go nowhere. We lost the book, we lost interest.
This is my favorite podcast that you have done. It was so interesting and lively.
Fascinating subject! "The difference between humans and chimpanzees is our sophisticated language." - Jane Goodall. Perhaps, when forms and meanings work together, there's poetry. Thank you both for this great conversation and learning.
actually it is our intelligence on a much broader level, which encompasses language but also many other things - e.g. building and wielding powerful objects such as tools which help us to build, extract minerals and fight, transport infrastructure, sewage systems, our ability to use fire to cook and many other factors beyond solely sophisticated language. It's definitely a notable one though
Idaong. That second last sentence of yours an AI will never be able to understand. That is clearly a human speaking with insight in the human mind.
Discussion on dependency length was particularly interesting, with possible connections to what LLMs are doing.
Wouldn't have clicked on this one but autoplay put it on and it's surprisingly interesting.
Tons of thank you Lex. This is the most fascinating interview I ever watched.
Fascinating conversation!
This is going to be amazing.
Really enjoyed conversation, really fascinating
Lex Fridman’s comment section always make my day a little brighter
Hey Lex, I've been enjoying your conversations on your podcast! I think it would be fascinating to see you chat with Two Minute Papers. His insights into research and new papers would mesh well with your discussions.
Lex- “Who does he think he is?” Edward- “Are you thinking out-loud about me?” Lex- “No, I was talking about myself in third person.”
Fantastic guest. More like this please !
Fascinating conversation on linguistics Thanks!
It is fun watching Lex not quite knowing what to do with this information. Very interesting talk. My mind is blown as well.
Love this Lex! I have been trying to relay this info as an activist for so many years
Thnx lex. I dreamed about the episode on linguistics
lex you’re always giving us wisdom and great knowledge, i appreciate you deeply
This is what GPT 4 replied:
This is a classic example of what is known as the Monty Hall problem. If you know the car is behind Door A, and you've chosen Door A, then there's no benefit in switching since your initial choice was based on certain knowledge.
However, if you initially didn't know where the car was and were just guessing, the problem suggests you should switch after one of the other doors is revealed to have junk behind it because switching doors actually increases your chances of winning the car from 1/3 to 2/3. But since in your scenario you state that you know the car is behind Door A, stick with your initial choice.
I appreciated the interview and would love to have a part two, or another linguistic guest.
great convo. I love lang research. very fun interview !
Thank you for this fascinating conversation. Now I want to read Dr. Gibson’s new book! As an ESL teacher & Reading teacher (teens) I find the concept of languages to be complex & endlessly interesting. It’s complex on many levels, such as academic English which at the high school level & beyond is highly content specific. The language of biology is very different from the language of history. If a student does not understand content specific academic vocabulary they won’t understand anything. Reading likewise is a complex process & in an academic setting often requires complex thinking skills such as making inferences and analyzing conflicting information. Language translations are a relatively simple task & are done well by programs, etc. but complex thought processes are required to truly learn, analyze and question & that may be exclusively a human ability; hence, AI needs humans to "train" it (data). Words are also Energy and carry the Energy of the intentions behind them.
Lex is correct that you can't separate form from function. They should talk to an author or poet. In the example of the two dogs, "The two dogs entered the room."places the reader's perspective with the two dogs, which is more natural. However, "There was a room, and two dogs entered in." fixes the recipient's perspective within the room.
That's at least true in English, I'm sure there would be other norms in other languages, but order of world building establishes perspective. You can tell in how we describe perspectives as well: First-person, the perspective is first. Third-person, the world is first, or we're viewing things from the perspective of the world.
Amazing Guest!!! Amazing Topic!!! I Love Languages!!! I Only Speak 7...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHMAZING!!!! Thanks guys!!!! 🤯
Mind-blowing!! Love you guys.
Will be very interesting to hear the guest view of the Arabic language which is very powerfull in terms of expressiveness. What he mentioned about Russian language regarding markers is also present in Arabic and you can rearrange sentences [mostly] without losing meaning.
Absolutely fascinating
Starting around 9:00, Prof. Gibson begins his thesis that language tries to reduce "dependencies" by making 'connections'. As far I understand him, he is saying that SVO sentences are easier to restitute meaning than other languages were the verb comes at the end of the sentence. Japanese has a brilliant feature using "markers" (borrowing from the professor) that tell you these things: the TOPIC of the sentence, the SUBJECT of the sentence and a whole slew of other particles or markers that tell you what is an OBJECT and a lot of other things about the grammar of the sentence. Accordingly, the Japanese language tells you what the sentence means by signaling in the grammar. This is why many Japanese language teachers will tell you that it is essential for students to learn the grammar of a language so students can speak. And as a corollary, it is the reason I instruct my Japanese students to observe that sentences in English will not tell you the 'topic'. If they can isolate and identify the verb, they will know the subject. But discovering the topic is a discursive endeavor. Over the years, it seems to me that Japanese students are not made aware of this distinction - as concerns English, anyway . They are left on their own to make this difference a sort of automatic switching in the brain. When I do make a point of this, I can see a widening in some eyes and imagine cartoonish lightbulbs turning on. I'm not learnéd enough to comment more widely about how many other languages may compare to Japanese. I'm not even a proficient speaker of Japanese, but I'm certain about this essential point, and Japanese academics with whom I've spoken seem to agree.
I guess ill have to stop center embedding...
My reason to jam definition and reasoning into the middle of statements is so that they are not able to ignore those details and remove context.
Fascinating to me is the relationship between internal dialogue and physical movements.Some talented rock Climbers leading a particular difficult section, resting comfortably, gazing at the crux section overhead...might be thinking.
..if I can just get my right foot up 3 feet to that half inch toe hold, and my right hand to the jug(a very good full grip luggage handle type hold) I have got this and it is all in the bag. Granted we still have another 300 feet left but the crux is done. Think this might be the way a spinal cord damaged person uses thoughts/ intentions to operate a keyboard
As a connoisseur of language, Abjad, Kabbalah, etc., it is difficult to observe intelligent individuals failing to recognize that core language is a program designed by a superior species to control the consciousness of the unsuspecting. For instance, when all the Hebrew letters are overlaid, they form a tetrahedron. English also forms a specific shape.
Furthermore, it's noteworthy that the Egyptians communicated through mathematics and symbols rather than words. This suggests that they inhabited a fundamentally different reality from ours.
I watched this episode discussing various languages and noticed the absence of any mention of the Arabic language. Given the uniqueness and richness of Arabic, its omission felt like a significant oversight. Arabic’s grammar and sentence structure, exemplified by how concisely one can say “My name is John” (“Ismi John”), demonstrate its beauty and efficiency.
To provide a more comprehensive view of world languages, I suggest inviting an expert in Arabic for a future episode. This would not only enrich the discussion but also ensure a more balanced representation of languages.
Thank you for considering my suggestion.
Arabic is as unique as every other language out there. And there is no evidence that one language is generally more concise or more efficient than others.
I wonder if that voice people hear in their head is just how they perceive their thoughts. Like, that's just how they make sense of thoughts because voices are something they have observed and experienced with their external senses
💫One of my favourite words..
Elaborate.
It sounds nice.💫
It would be interesting to have John McWhorter on as a follow up to this.
Oh my goodness, YES! Absolutely love him!
Thank you 🐓
Bro I have just started learning Japanese as a kind of exploration... and curiosity. And connecting this topics in my head how different things shape each other. Interesting
Interesting side note for you both. In the Aboriginal Gumbaynggir language (Australia) You can have two sentences with the same words illustrating very different concepts in their culture/belief systems. "Ga wa jinn" (Tree turns into/tranforms to a woman) and also "Jinn wa ga". Woman turns into a tree.
This is one of my niche interests. Thanks!
If you think "The boy who the cat who the dog chased scratched ran away" is difficult, you should try reading Proust. That's child's play next to it.
Always a good day!
This was fascinating! Does anyone have any recommendations for podcasts on the topics of language, etymology, linguistics...etc?
check out EtymologyNerd, hes on UA-cam too, he has some very interesting shorts on language
Does Lex' thought at minute 1:26:31 also relate to Saussure's theory about the signified and the signifier? (see Semiotics - "Course in General Linguistics")
The part of this video where the topic of thoughts not being done or composed in the form of language, led me to think of how, Jung, imbedded in me the idea that thoughts communicate or present themselves in/as symbols. If that’s true, then I suppose we translate the symbol into language in order to simplify, asset and assign meaning.
Very great show Lexy!! Am a Latvian speaker Mother tongue our cousins the Lithuanians our languages are Sanskrit based arguably 7,000 years old. Prussian was is also a Baltic language being restored now. Speak some German also.
Fascinating. I highly recommend reading the linguist Robert Bringhurst and particularly his Language Poem.
🤔 Fascinating information! The delivery was a bit jumbled at times, ironic considering the subject, but fascinating nonetheless. Thank You, Lex 🙏