Panic Reaction! The Tragic Explanation behind Sriwijaya flight 182
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
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Its a rainy afternoon over #Jakarta and inside this #aircraft, the pilots have just taken off and are now turning to avoid some bad weather ahead of them. At the same time a small #technical fault has started affecting the aircrafts autothrottle. The pilots haven’t noticed it yet but when they do, their handling of the situation is about to start a horrific chain of events in the Java Sea. Stay Tuned!
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Links from the video:
📹 The CRASH that Changed US Aviation:
• The CRASH that Changed...
📹 TITANIC of the Skies! - The Untold Story of Air France 447
• TITANIC of the Skies! ...
📹 WHY did This Aircraft Suddenly ROLL OVER?! American Airlines flight 300
• WHY did This Aircraft ...
Artwork in the studio:
👉🏻 aeroprints.de/?lang=en
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.
Sources
Final Report:
knkt.go.id/Repo/Files/Laporan...
Aircraft Used - Take Command!: IXEG 737 Classic:
www.x-aviation.com/catalog/pr...
Sriwijaya Air Videos VIA UA-cam
• Safe Travel With Sriwi...
• Komitmen Sriwijaya Air...
• Sriwijaya Air Memastik...
• 12 Tahun Sriwijaya Air...
Qar 1: Tom Nardi
hackaday.com/2018/10/15/teard...
QAR 2: Tom Nardi
hackaday.com/wp-content/uploa...
Position of FDR: chinadaily.com.cn
img2.chinadaily.com.cn/images...
Position of FDR 2: b737.org.uk
www.b737.org.uk/flightinsts.htm
Indonesian Aviation Authority offices: UNKNOWN
airnavindonesia.co.id/hubungi...
Indonesian Aviation Authority: AirNav Indonesia VIA youtube
www.thejakartapost.com/indone...
Search Video: Komando Pasukan Katak
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fo...
Wreckage Video: Indonesian Navy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fo...
CVR Housing: UNKNOWN
www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/ho...
Found Wreckage: Pradita Utama/detikcom
news.detik.com/berita/d-55149...
CHAPTERS
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00:00 - Intro
00:26 - A history of issues
02:47 - Maintenance gaps
04:51 - Quick access recorder
06:38 - Fool me twice...
10:19 - The flight crew
12:49 - Takeoff
14:50 - Weather ahead
17:52 - Split thrust
21:17 - A captain distracted
24:44 - Things are not what they seem
28:13 - What went wrong
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Hi Peter
Really love your videos
Plz give my shoutout
You should have mentioned or added a proper upset recovery procedure :)
I am shocked. I think pilot training is completely wrong. I think we're going to see a lot more plane crashes until something changes. I guess the basic role of the person who sits at the controls of the plane and calls himself a pilot is to maintain the aircraft within safe flight parameters. During flight 100% of the time the pilot needs to keep an eye on the artificial horizon and speed, everything else he needs to do is a secondary task.
Putting me in the pilot's seat when the "bank angle!" warning sounded was perfect. As soon as you showed me what he saw my first thought was, "oh no he's going to turn it to the left."
Yes, indeed.
Same. Before, I strongly felt that it's "pilot error", and couldn't undertand at all why the pilot failed to see the very impirtant things like the attitude indicator or thrust levers or this or that (I watched other channel about this particular accident).
Watching that scene in this video, I'm become a bit more "aaah I see...".
@@CaraVerde Indeed.
@@CaraVerde and to think it was only in a matter of about 30 seconds…
Yeah the cpt was already complacent and lost his situational awareness. If he had taken 2 seconds to scan his instruments (since they were IFR at the time), he would have noticed the discrepancy between the altitude indicator and the yoke.
The chairman of Canada's nuclear industry regulatory agency used to joke that he wished that the reactor operator chair could be equipped with automatic clamps. These clamps would automatically lock down the operator's arms for 5 seconds whenever a high level alarm came in. This would force the operator to first study the instrument panel and gain situational awareness, before releasing him to take action. He was joking when he said it, but he was also highlighting the risk of an operator taking action before they've read their instruments and formed a clear picture of the problem, and the required corrective action.
Maybe it should just disable the control panel for those 5 seconds and flash a big sign saying, "read the dials, dummy"
🤣😉
There's a saying in aviation that in case of an emergency, the first thing you should do is wind your watch. Basically it means to calm down, take in the situation and only then react.
There's a similar saying in medicine - "the first thing you do in a code is take your own pulse"
Retired Navy nuke Engineer here.
I was taught the same thing in my operational training. When a casualty occurs, the first Immediate action is to sit on your hands and analyze the situation.
@@marsjan
Pilot: _SHIT I'M WEARING MY CASIO AAAARGGH_
I really appreciate the emphasis on how humans can be expected to respond given certain circumstances.
Too often, people attribute failures to human error without considering human psychology and how circumstances contribute to the failure.
Thank you for continually demonstrating how to properly analyze failures! Keep it up!
As gear car
Neutral plus and minus.
Speed equal neutral high low equal must folow
Look for friction 10/10 these .
Down mid up left right considerable.
I love this Channel. There's something so earnest and genuine about Petter, the way he relays the events but also the context and insight his experience have earned him.
This has never been your average aviation content - this is the gold standard.
Love his accent
To me as a passenger it looks like a good idea to make it mandatory for all pilots to watch everything on the Mentour Pilot channel. There is so much to learn from everything that went wrong!
Comment of the year!
Getting an airliner pilot license is not a piece of cake like automotive license 😂😂
They are pretty much trained for all of this!
@@knightking69 O.K., but why did all those "complacency" accidents happen, if they were trained so well? Maybe some extra awareness of all that could go wrong won't do any harm? There may be some little detail that sticks in the mind and makes a big difference when an unexpected situation arises.
@@knightking69 training to drive a car teaches you different things than watching a crap ton of car accidents. They're different lessons entirely.
@@tshaika9165 sometimes accident do happen... It's inevitable..
Petter, I wanted to publicly praise you and the Mentour production crew. The information and explanations are, as always, top-notch but the improvements in video or text overlays, maps, digital reenactments and the like have not gone unnoticed.
Thank you, each and all.
I will let Dom know, he and the rest of the team are working wonders!
Thanks Matthew!! We aim to please and inform.
I agree. Especially appreciated the music background this time... particularly that it is never loud enough to compete with Petter, and suits the mood very aptly...
Thanks Petter, Dom, and team! You guys are legends. Absolutely love the hard work and detail you put into every episode.
@@subramaniamtg1108 thanks friend! We all love what we do!
As an ex B777 pilot we were bias against Airbus with its non-moving thrust levels. However after 11 years flying the A320 it’s a great machine and very well thought out. Looking forward to my A350 course next month. 😊. Startle factors can lead to ‘chimp’ response which made the situation far worse. We ‘cage’ the chimp and rebuild situational awareness before appropriate action. Very interesting, thanks.
Great point. Just wondering how the Captain would have reacted with a non-moving joystick.
@@user-yg6vs8tz5c Also many of these disasters seem to be partially caused by pilots not paying attention to the artificial horizon and engine thrust indicators. I wonder why HUDs that clearly show the attitude of the plane and other vital information are not more common.
As a contrarian - the HUD on the A350 may have led to the pilots of that JAL flight not seeing the Coast Guard plane on the runway. But I'm not a pilot, just humble SLF.@@ladoga
@@raehandurlabhji2776it’s very likely that even without the HUD he missed the other plane. The positiv side of HUD is much greater than without. Check out the other video here on this channel about the crash in LAX Runway collision - a lot of parallels I would say.
I worked on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner as an IBM software architect on their Boeing Electronic Distribution of Software (BEDS) system, and I have appreciation of how much more complex it is to fly any plane. A modern plane has so many systems and modes that it is absolutely mind boggling. Mentour Pilot shares these aspect very well but what I really like is how he explains the psychology and circumstances that are going on. I love his videos. He has a cute dog too.
Hi, does 787 use i386dx? And which servers used in boeing windows, linux, or ibm?
@@vipvip-tf9rw Yes. Some of the hardware uses it in embedded system hardware.
My favorite aspect of your work is your overall calmness. You have a cool demeanor and this strikes me as an absolutely necessary trait for a pilot. How much of that is "in your genes" and how much of it is learned behavior?
I note you also have a beautiful dog. My dogs are very useful in sensing when I need to chill, and in helping me to take things down a notch. Do you find that dog contact helps you in this way?
Bring on the beta-endorphins!
THANKS, PETTER!!
Yes it’s definitely a case of less is more in this case...
As Indonesian, watching this accident breakdown feels like getting hard punch in the face. This accident shows how our regulators and airline itself really messed up on maintenance and pilot training (or lack of) that led up to this disaster. I hope that they really learn from this disaster to actually improve AND implement recommendations from final report.
Thanks to Mentour Pilot, you guys really doing amazing work as always. Do not stop doing this, it's really helpful to the society. Cheers
I can imagine that.
@@NicolaW72 It's hard to swallow to be honest. Not only because accident happened in the first place obviously, it's also because that this accident kind of verified the fact that we had a "not quite good" safety records for years.
Indonesians love cheap and simple more than they love safe and quality, the aviation industry of the country reflects well on this (sad) mentality. This and corruption is what always hinders Indonesia's progress to develop, and it's not helping the youths of Indonesia are still keeping this very outdated mentality alive
@@NicolaW72 I, too.
@@sofyanaldian5233 Yes, indeed. The system failed here on all lines - and for years. If only one line would have holded, all 62 people would be still alive.
It is peculiar to think that this series has been going for so long that you are now covering accidents that happened after you started making these.
These are still the best airline accident analysis videos on UA-cam.
👍
Good point, we’ll made!
I dont know about that....
There are a couple more equally good channels on UA-cam
In my opinion Boeing could have done a lot more to prevent this upset to escalate beyond recovery. In-flight thrust asymetry should be treated as something out of the ordinary and result in some kind of alert. Also, the bank angle warning could be improved by adding a call out into which direction to turn. In this case: "Bank angle! Turn right!". This is already the case for the TCAS and GPWS. TCAS adds "Climb!" or "Descend!" depending on the action required to avoid collidig with another airplane. GPWS adds "Pull up! Pull up!" when the airplane gets dangerously close to terrain. By just saying "Bank angle!", the pilot needs to quickly figure out the direction to turn to rectify the upset situation. This is an unecessary step in a critical situation. Could there be a reason why the direction to turn has not been added to the callout? I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you Mentour team for yet another excellent accident presentation. It feels like each new video gets slightly better than the previous ones. Keep up the good work, and RIP all crew and passengers on this tragic flight.
We refused to fly any Airlines except SQ in Asia
The bank angle callout probably wouldn't help, sadly. The reason is that we lose audio perception first in a high stress situation. A thrust asymmetry alert would be a great idea though.
I don't understand why this dive wasn't recoverable?
@@ChristopherBurtrawWhat are you talking about? It wasn't high stress prior to the bank angle warning. You're saying you'd hear "bank angle..." then are so unprofessional that you'd tune out the last half of the callout (ie. Roll left/right!)?
@@fredspofford Petter explains it in the video. Watch it again.
Now that I have finally started flight training, these type of situations feel so much more real and scary understanding exactly what is going on and the fear that these kind of things could happen to me. I hope this will always remind me to never slack off when flying
Sterile cockpit helps.😮
When I first began driving school as a teenager, my instructor said something very important: in an emergency we often revert to the habits we learned first, so it is very important to learn the right behaviors first. That advice has saved my life more than once. For professional aviators, I imagine that making sure to bypass certain instincts, looking at the instrument panel, and avoiding confirmation bias are probably some of the important life-saving habits. The 1500 milliseconds it takes to ask “what is really going on” to break the spell could make all the difference.
That's an interesting story and I definitely read your entire comment. Say, shut up for a minute and buy NordVPN's proxy services, ok? Buy it now. It's not a scam. Seriously, shut your mouth and buy it now. I'll wait...
That is a very excellent question to ask. 'what is really going on'?
for any situation.
Breaks the spell
actually it aligns you with God, Angels who are trying to help you. And it connects you brain to you heart...so you can hear the Angels.
@@Blue-hf7xt Indeed.
@@Blue-hf7xt ey, a fellow fiction stories lover
@@lastyhopper2792 Ask out loud, are Angels real or fiction...see what answer you get?
Very well done 👏
As an aeronautical engineer I often become distraught at the way information regarding aviation issues is presented in the media and especially on social media … but definitely no such occurrence when it comes to your content or the way it has been presented.
Congratulations, your work and the work of your support team deserves high praise.
Thank you for raising the bar and for freely sharing quality content.
Thank you for your kind words! That’s exactly what we are aiming for 💕
@@MentourPilot When you get a moment, take a look at my reply above and tell me what you think. Thanks, Wills.
@@MentourPilot yeah, this example is a highlight of how reflexively taking action.... may or may not be a good idea. The pilot acted on reflex... when he needed more info.
The Air Morocco delayed take off springs to mind.
“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward-reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.
In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.”
- Michael Crichton (1942-2008)
Thank you, Mentour Pilot for your analysis about the the accidents and issues involved in the aircraft.
At first, RIP to all passengers aboard. I've boarded that plane back in 2015 and it was a normal flight although it encountered heavy rains during the landing phase. And after heard SJ182 crash, I've shocked when knew that the plane involved in that accident was the same plane I've boarded 6 years ago.
That planes like a metaphor for a lot of people tbh; everyone ignores the warning signs for years, then all of a sudden, just like that, the lights go out..
While not being a pilot, I have appreciated your videos due to the lessons you share about the value of understanding how the mind works under stress, situational awareness, attention to detail, empowering procedure, practice and more. Such knowledge can be applied to individual acts like driving or tasks at work but also to corporate systems as well.
That’s what I’m hoping. Glad to hear it’s working.
@@MentourPilot It is working! Strangely as it may sound, next week I will do training for our sales and cs reps based on aviation processes I have learned about from you! CRM and PIOSEE as main communication and problem solving approach 🙂I’m completely amazed by aviation world. Thank you for your videos, Petter
Just a terrestrial here but I love to fly (commercially) and really enjoy Mentour’s channel. Unfortunately for my partner I now say things like, “situational awareness”, “bias” and talk about the concept of the power gradient amongst crew, in our everyday conversation …. Lol
@@ycoyle2803 , I also find myself thinking in terms of situation awareness. I don't drive a car, but have had a few narrow squeaks because of careless or dangerous drivers - very narrow squeaks when I was off in my own world instead of paying attention to my surroundings. Turns out that listening to music while walking down the road is way too distracting.
@@MentourPilot Its definitely working, I’ve taken similar lessons from your videos myself. There are some curious similarities between our jobs in terms of importance of following safety SOPs even if it’s a little little slower or annoying than cutting those tiny corners. No doubt you’ll understand why when I tell you I’m an ACS agent cross trained in most of the ramp duties. (I’m not entirely compatible with spending time doing nothing waiting for another aircraft to clean and provide bowser service so I voluntarily undertook most of the ramp training so I can go out and assist them. If I’m working the shift passes faster.) Similarly the lessons in situational awareness transfer into my job and supplement the training already provided by my employer.
You might be pleased to know that teaching me about how the mind works when startled and surprised have actually had practical applications during the nine months or so that I’ve worked on the apron, particularly right after a very near miss when the driver of our van somehow missed the incoming Ryanair 737 following the yellow line to taxi to the assigned aircraft stand. It was already beginning to turn to cross our path when we approached. I was seated behind the driver and we skimmed by so close that I could have reached out the window and patted the 737 on the nose. Once past the 737 I had to be firm in insisting the driver pull over at the nearest safe spot because the startle and surprise would make him far more likely to actually cause an accident if he continued to drive back to base.
Besides it was inevitable that Airside Ops would come for him quickly so there really wasn’t any point to carry on driving and the easiest thing to do was just wait for them to arrive. Admittedly I’ve always wondered what went through the pilots minds during this incident. From my rudimentary understanding I doubt that there was anything they could do to stop quick enough. They were taxiing and apparently it can take a few seconds for the engines to spool down if they killed the engines or put them into idle and I have no idea if the parking brake is capable of stopping the aircraft while it’s taxiing. I still don’t know how he missed it, planes like that are not subtle.
Similarly it’s helpful to simply be aware that prolonged stress and fatigue can affect the mind while I’m under those conditions out there. Having learned about CRM was the other main takeaway and sometimes I think it might be worth learning more specifics would be useful when our supervisor expects us to do something dumb like attempt to clean a 737 without a GPU yet available in the middle of a night shift. Fortunately that doesn’t happen often and most of the time I enjoy the job despite some of the downsides.
Oh and if you ever fly into BRS and I’m around I’ll say hi.
What an absolute horrific and unnecessary accident.
Thank you, Petter, for this great, in depth look at this tragedy.
Rest in peace to those lost in this accident, including, as I understand, 6 dead heading crew.
You hacked UA-cam this video was 1 hour ago and you replied 7 hours ago HOW?!?!?!
@@devkell9960 I think Patreon members get early access to the videos with a link to the 'Unlisted' video
i've always wondered why that is called deadheading.
@@mrxmry3264 if you aren't flying the plane or taking care of the passengers, you are just a body in a seat who doesn't have to think (use your head) & you aren't paying so the airline can't sell the seat to someone else so the seat is "dead". I believe it's like an old theater term for someone who didn't pay for the seats they were given, if I'm remembering right.
@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 Thahnk you, I’ve wondered about that myself.
24:52 A well trained pilot would not have looked at the controls but at the instruments on hearing the “bank angle” caution. I’m flabbergasted that any pilot would be in cloud, during a climb and not be aware of the attitude indicator. Further to this, keeping hands and feet lightly on the controls, even with the autopilot in, is prudent and would have highlighted the thrust asymmetry as it occurred. Another great video Petter!
100% totally pathetic crew.
99,99% of the time, bank angle is given by the yoke position and is backed up by PFD data. We are looking at this having information those pilots didn't have (unlike them, we do know this was an atypical situation caused by some faulty mechanisms)
In this instance, they were doomed for not considering PFD data, but there are several cases were pilots have been doomed precisely for trusting their PFDs...
Surely any time a planes pilot hears bank warni g can thry mot feel plane banking and trigger warning passengers panicing if they used senses more maybe things would be better anotherwords couldnt mindfullness be part of the training that self hrlp encoursges you to use sense of sight hearing feel which could help @andreea007
r u a pilot?
Easy to talk when you're comfortably watching this in the comforts of your home without any demands set upon you.
I am a long time aviation enthusiast and frequent flyer. These reviews rival and complement Mayday/Air Crash Investigation/Air Disasters, and that is a very well written show which I’ve been watching for almost 20 years. Absolutely fabulous stuff. Good news/bad news. Content of this quality is unlikely to remain “free” indefinitely. Tremendous job! ✈️
It isn't free, it pays itself with advertisement.
With close to 25000 hours my career has gone from steam dials to full automation and a glass cockpit but my scan pattern has never changed . I am not an armchair quarterback but to miss a throttle split of that magnitude between not 1 but 2 experienced pilots is hard to understand . Well taught habits and patterns hopefully stay with you . Thanks for your technical and thorough evaluation of these unfortunate accidents . 22:31
Great analysis. ..
@@ClearedAsFiled Indeed.
👍
Question regarding this - wouldn't the asymmetric thrust be detected by ear? I mean one was stuck at 91% and the other one was gradually decreasing.
I might sound like an arm chair critic and I apologise for that, but would love to hear your insight on this.
This is an example of modern Instrument Flying. Wasn't there a system to monitor the throttles? Yes, its called the "pilot flying"!
It's not the first accident that happens because an autopilot silently compensates for an unusual situation. The situation gets worse and worse, until a puzzling warning occurs or the autopilot disconnects itself entirely.
Do you think some kind of earlier warning could be implemented into the autopilot? Something like "I am still managing what you told me to do, but this is getting increasingly difficult and I will shut down in X seconds". I think this could help this and other similar situations.
Good idea!
It should even be possible that the autopilot checks different possible reasons causing it making it harder than normal to fly the way he should and it this case also give a "Check for asymetric trust " warning as this is one of the possible reasons and could be detected by comparing the thrust of both engines.
Also the "bank angle" warning does not tell on which side the problem was detected which could be added
Or in general:
In my opinion it it not enough if the computer gives warnings and errors - it should also try to find the reason for that warnings and errors by using data from all of it sensors and determining the most propable reasons and give hints to check and recover.
But the biggest mistake in my opinion was that the ground service did not react on the repeating problem with the trust levels.
It might be okay to clean the connectors if that fix the problem - but as it is not normal that these connectors have to be cleaned so often it should be clear that the real problem must be somethere else and had to be identified and repaired.
It is like if I get a low oil warning in my car. I can try to fix that by refilling some oil and if that solves the problem is is fine - but if I get another low oil warning a couple of weeks later it is not a good idea to just refill some oil again and I also have to find out the reason for this repeating problem....
As the Boing stat to implement things as like MCAS to antique plane first flight was 1967, almost 56 years ago, nothing can go wrong. First thing that make the things harder is control wheel to follow the autopilot as it is obviously clue what it wants to do, but also same time it is not show how things are going relative to horizon other than in the instruments that are behind the control wheel.
@@elkeospert9188 I am not sure if a computer should give hits on what may be wrong, because if it is mistaken, it may direct pilots to a wrong mindset. It's much harder to recognize a B problem when you assume it is A problem.
@@LiliumAtratum But a computer can analyze a lot of data in very short time and is not impacted by stress and in situations where pilots not have time to work through checklists I think given the pilots hints that (most probably) causes the problems and should be checked first would be helpful.
And I assume that using all available data a software could determine the correct problem in more cases than pilots (which anyway also have to rely on the data presentend to them)
In this case the asymetric trust was "known" by the computer and if could be calculated how much impact it has. If that explains the problems the auto pilot has to keep direction it is very probably also the reason for that problem.
Another example for that I mean.
If the altimeter of the pilot and the one of the copilot are delivering different values it is difficult for pilots to find out which one they should trust.
GPS is not very accurate in the measurement of height - but if GPS says that you are on 11500 feet and the alitmeter of the copilot shows 12000 feet while the altimeter of the captain shows 6000 feet it is a very good reason to indicate that the captains altimeter is most possible wrong.
You can have test pilots and engineurs working on such "decision helper" using all data from all sensors on ground without any stress and hurry and then code this into a software which could apply all that "knowledge" in a fraction of a second when it occurs in the air.
There already was (although it is not implemented in the autopilot which is probably appropriate in this case), and it is explained at 19:47 (Split thrust monitoring system). Unfortunately this system was not functioning correctly either. This is a big pointer to the significance of organisational safety culture as one of the root causes of the incident.
I really enjoy how you break down how things like stress or shock impact decision making. These sorts of things affect us all, no matter our work, and it's really helpful to understand the bad decisions we make in our day to day lives and understand them a bit better.
Du är riktigt duktig, Petter. Ordentligt bra content, både lärorikt och spännande! Fortsätt så!
It shows how important a proper instrument scan is for both pilots to engage in, not just peering out the windscreen like another bored passenger. Either one had ample opportunity to note the increasing thrust discrepancy.
My thought exactly. It should become second nature to scan, scan, and rescan every 10 - 20 seconds of the most important instruments and indicators. And for extra bonus points, do a complete scan of all instruments (or as many as you can see) every 1-2 minutes.
This. The "BANK ANGLE" warning would have been a cue for them to look at the EADI, not at their control wheel. If they did, the accident could have been avoided.
There is a not so secret thing here, about pilot quality. I have several friends who are airline pilots, and a few of them by the time of their initial training were sent for few months to fly in Indonesia. They were appalled at the very poor quality of many airline pilots there.
@@Stoney3K Lmao thank you! You have no idea how useful your comment is for me. So I’m not a pilot yet during the part where he put us into the position of the captain and he asked us what our response would be to the bank angle warning and we looked down, I got confused when he told me that the natural response was to turn left. Why? Because I was thinking that I would look at the relevant instrument panels to try to ascertain what was going wrong.
Huh, I guess I’ve learned more than I thought. I never expected that.
@@tinchote "Hey, lets look at the clouds outside instead of our instruments, we can trust our inner ear anyways"
But I'm just joking, now they recruit those pilots for Ryanair and Spirit Airlines
I am an aircraft mechanic and when we “clean/reset connectors” it’s our way of doing *something* to clear a write up when we can’t duplicate a discrepancy on the ground or don’t feel like digging any deeper. It’s sad but it’s the reality. Pilots, if you ever see this sort of corrective action for a write up, it’s probably not really fixed and will probably come back.
“Don’t feel like digging any deeper”. Not really the best attitude to have if you’re an aircraft mechanic
@@tomstravels520 Change hats and think like maintenance.
The plane is scheduled to lift of in 2 hours - otherwise rescheduling of the flight guest.
You need to do handle some more service items on that plane also take time, but you have other planes that you need to handle - otherwise even more rescheduling.
Then you look at the trouble shoot and maintenance guides: Some are painfully detailed and specific and need to be done. Others are simply non existent (or you don't have them at hand, because the error described/reported does not lead to that guide).
Note that when you test and disassemble systems you have no direct procedure for, you need to be extra careful.
Even flipping a switch the pilots are supposed to check every time can cause an accident.
Incorrect reassembly will make the problem much worse instead of helping. So... when moving something is risky, dissembling is risky, testing is risky, ... isn't less risk just to leave it be...?
Off course, a mechanic can escalate:
When would you label a system inoperative?
When would you ground a plane?
@@tomstravels520 people are humans.
@@sarowie that depends how important the system is and how much redundancy is available as backup if it fails again. Exactly what the MEL is for. But if autothrottle keeps failing repeatedly then either disable the autothrottle (doubt anyone wants to fly like that), dedicate a team to concentrate solely on that aircraft or if you’re really unsure then get the people who made it in and have them look at it. We have had aircraft problems before that we couldn’t fully diagnose and had to call the manufacturer to look at it (eventually found the cause and procedure added to manuals). The same goes for TK1951 that kept having faulty RA. Although in that instance the design of the 737 didn’t help and it wasn’t clearly communicated not to use autoland
@@tomstravels520 With this amount of repeat/recurs we would have dig deeper into this. But you have to remember this is a third world airline with substandard practices and that plays a role.
Literally making me think about how I would react in this situation
When you said what would you do for a bank angle warning and I immediately thought control stick/yoke must turn left or opposite to what it is, to correct for the bank angle warning . ONLY to realize when we look at the bigger picture, that this action will only exacerbate the problem.
My instructor tells me all the time I react too quickly without assessing the situation ( or picture ) first sometimes which leads to over correcting or making too much work for myself trying to get stable .
I think from watching this video and trying to apply good habits/lessons , I need to actively try asses and understand the situation before my input into the aircraft.
Thanks for the video's and hard work you guys put in to create the content
I FINALLY got it through my head the difference between autothrottle and autoPILOT!
Yay, Petter!
When you mentioned that the Captain hadn't looked down at his instruments for 20 seconds, hey, 20 seconds is a LONG time. A 5-to-10-second 6.0 earthquake feels like 10 minutes!
I love you mentioning 'confirmation bias' and the 'startle effect', and the psychological effect of this intense stimuli event and the reflex action of the person.
Your explanation of these psych effects, to me, indicate a lot of looking a lot of the actions you automatically do, plus the research you've done, impress me.
10 years of inactions and one simple but incorrect action blew the whole house of cards in seconds.
Crazy story and painful to watch once you already see where does it lead to. I was like "Please don't touch that yoke. Wait a sec and think."
Yeah.. it was quite painful to research and script this one.
@@MentourPilot Would it be a good idea if you could include a brief discussion on the correct series of steps the pilots could have taken to get out of the critical situation they found themselves in after the bank angle warning?
@@globalvoice... They only needed to do one thing. Scan their instrument before taking any actions. That would have shown the thrust asymmetry instantly.
They only had to look at the instruments. Argh
@@celderian Yep. It just sucks if you get into that mindset box and stop seeing the obvious. It was as well unfortunate that the async thrust alert did not go off as you would expect it... I don't know... the whole situation was a mess and it seems like a tragedy was unavoidable since there were so many problems all over the place for years being overlooked.
The ability of this team to organize and condense 200 pages of information into a comprehensible, educational, and engaging presentation is incredible!
I am curious as to what the “satisfactory by briefing” entails in a proficiency check. Both pilots had SBs related to non-normals. Is there additional education provided? I just wonder if it is significant that this was an issue in both pilots proficiency check, or is it a common occurrence that would not raise any red flags?
I stumbled onto ur videos. Wow, i am hooked! Ur explanations about the equipment, what it does and how it makes the plane DO what it does, is bar- none!!!
Best i have come across. Thanks!
Hello, my name is Fadi, and ive been recently watching your videos and been fascinated by them especially when i am just a flight enthusiast inspired by my pilot brother.
I would love to see an episode explaining Gulf air FL072 incident in BAH back in 2000 and understand all aspects of that incident.
On a final note, a huge thanks for your tips, critical thinking and the different analysis methods you used that could definitely be applied in other industries and has actually helped me out in my line of work.
As a multi-engine pilot myself, it's truly hard for me to understand how such a huge disparity in thrust handles, not to mention the disparity in sound (with an engine at near full thrust) and engine performance instrumentation -- all could go un-noticed by two pilots during a flight. It's such a muscle memory thing for two high time pilots that, if it didn't actually happen, would seem totally implausible.
Kudos for making this video 👍 iam a pilot in Indonesia. And this accident touched me quite a lot because some of my friends lost their loved ones and some have flown with the capt when theyre still working at sriwijaya.
Remember.. keep the blue side up 👍
Ehh ada kak gery
Sorry to hear that but thank you for your feedback.
Fly safe!
Keep the blue side up? That sounds like something 74gear would say.
@@mikoto7693 Yes.
As always, great video! Thank you for all the time and work!
Are you planning on doing a video about the PLL LOT flight 5055?
Soon as I'm finished watching your latest video I waiting for the next one. Thanks for all the work you put into these detailed videos!
It is crazy how clear the way you explained this matter, even though I'm Indonesian and we have quite a few explanation too by our own aviation people, but the way you told the whole story is so easy to understand. Thank you, Petter!
i'm Indonesian, and i remember well this tragic accident, it was all over local news. thank you for this video, now we know what really happened ; -;)7
Another great video. I enjoy your retellings so much, I could post this same comment on all your videos. You focus in on the stuff that matters and convey a good understanding of the situation. Whatever crash or incident you pick, you make it sound like the most fascinating story yet. I'm particularly interested in your revealing and sympathetic thoughts about why the pilots may have reacted the way they did.
I've always enjoyed your videos, but this is the most fascinating one I've seen yet. You did a *great* job of putting us in the pilot's mind when he got the bank angle warning; that was the best part of a great video.
I really love the balance of respect for the victims of these types of accidents, while maintaining the focus on aviation.
As a pilot who flies his bonanza, these accidents constantly remind me the importance of checklists and actually verifying the item on the checklist. It's easy to say for instance on take off that, "engines in the green" with a quick glance, but looking back how often have I actually verified that vs just called it out as a memory item. I have made it a focus on my flying lately to get much better at checking items off and not just going through the motions. I'm also doing more flights with a CFI even though I don't need any additional training per the regulations, just so I can practice emergency procedures more. The more comfortable I am hand flying the plane the better I am at addressing emergencies.
It seems to me if two pilots wrote the the "RH thrust lever was useless" and they ignored it, then something is wrong in the maintenance department.
@@andyharpist2938 Indeed.
A question, how much are the pilots trained to hand fly before they are regular with commercial flights?
@@Dheeraj71192 depends on where they are coming from, US trained pilots do a fair bit of hand flying as they go all the way up through CFI. From there it will transition to more time in simulators with more automation. Most of time after that point will be learning how to deal with automation failures and recovering from them so you will be learning how to manually take over from automation but your training is heavily tilted towards working with automation then not. Also depending on your flight school as you gain certifications, if the school has more advanced technology in the planes you are encouraged to use it.
Even when flying regularly pilots often hand fly take off and landings to keep stick and rudder skills up.
Generally speaking as a pilot you learn to use automation as a tool in the cockpit but are familiar with how it can fail and how you are to take over.
That being said many foreign training programs are very heavily tilted towards automation. Also many of these Asian and other foreign airlines require pilots to use auto land and turn over most of the thinking to automation.
While everyone who flies has a level to professionalism to them, I would much rather a US or a European trained airline crew over an Asian crew simply because those crews are much more likely to have a smaller startle effect and can hand fly the planes well.
But that's my two bits.
I was an Assistant Air Traffic Controller in the RAF working at the Rescue Coordination Centre at RCC Edinburgh at Pitreavie Castle outside Rosyth Scotland. I worked there from 1979 - 1983. We were responsible for the Nimrods and Yellow RAF Rescue Helecopters from 5230N and above. The nearest I got to being a pilot was getting my Wings as a Glider Pilot with the Air Training Corps. Why do I say this? I love your vlogs, I can relate to a lot of terms, and I appreciate you dumbing down/explaining to us less knowledgeable in all things piloting. You present a very thorough debrief into these accidents and explain why, when, and how things go wrong. Thank you for these vlogs, I always watch them from start to finish and always leave the vlog with a clear understanding I didn't have before the vlog. Thank you for all you do, Petter. The narration and videography is second to none.
It's been a while since I've watched and I'm really enjoying catching up with your excellent videos. Thanks for all the work you and your team put into them.
As an engineer, I am quite surprised that the auto systems didn't alert to when they are unable to perform their functions.
Seems like it would be very useful for the autothrottle system to alert to an unexpected throttle position (say to due to a stuck throttle), regardless of asymmetric thrust.
Likewise for the autopilot to alert to it hitting the limit of it's control range. Given human weakness at monitoring stuff, would have been better for an alert that something was wrong to come well before the bank angle alert.
Yeah it's something that seems to be common factor that some of the messages that the aircraft is providing maybe could be more clear instead of general X issue. It's not like they can't afford more detailed messages that'd still be concise
I'm going through a series of interviews for my absolute dream job of being an operations analyst in the aviation industry. I may be tasked with being a tiny part of solving the pilot shortage issue here in the US, and I'm very excited. Thank you for your amazing videos, I always learn a little something new with each one.
Best of luck!!
I watch these videos because chain of failure is applicable to any workplace. What struck me about this incident was the brief timespan of 27 seconds between the pilots becoming aware of the fault, and the plane being destroyed. While it’s clear that the pilot exacerbated the situation by not fully assessing the state of the aircraft prior to attempting corrective action, it’s still frightening how quickly that led to the aircraft entering an unrecoverable state.
No shit!
Fascinating, as always !!
Looking forward to next, have also an absolutely fantastic day, Peter 🤗
2021...
Crazy to think this disaster is just last year.
Here is hoping the Indonesian Pilot workspace learn HEAVILY from this accident, and always self-report every problem to ensure safety for everyone involved.
Thanks, Peter.
I read the final report, what surprised me most was how multiple flight crews have never noticed any thrust asymmetry problems in previous flights when it happened, so they never put it in the logbook.
Also not picked up is the controls binding. A long running problem on this plane with all attempts at fixing appearing to be blamed on the electronics. Surely the logs should be audited by maintenance and the real fault found and fixed.
did previous crews never notice it ... or just not report it ?
AFTER the United Express aircraft went off the runway at Presque Isle Northern Maine Airport ... then PREVIOUS flights started reporting the ILS problem !
Couldn't Boeing just add some sort of warning lights etc ... seems insane
Here I quote from the report:
"... .The differences in engine parameters during aircraft descent and the right thrust lever late on the take-off roll while the A/T engaged, most likely might have resulted in the thrust levers split.
The Quick Access Recorder (QAR) data recorded 7 thrust levers split occurrences between 2020 and 2021. No pilot reported on these occurrences in the AML. Most of the pilots stated that they did not recall the occurrences."
"If the FMC CDU INTERACTIVE TEST was performed for thrust lever movement problem during the A/T system engagement will result to FWD LOOP or THROT SPLIT fault messages. The subsequent trouble shooting steps would use procedure contained in the AMM chapter 71-00-49 (Power Plant-- Trouble Shooting (Engine Controls)). Similarly, for pilot report of thrust lever split event, the same troubleshooting step should also be in accordance with the procedure in AMM chapter 71-00-49, which contained maintenance steps to check the friction of the engine control cable.
Therefore, the termination of the trouble shooting after the BITE test result of “no faults” and without the pilot report of thrust lever split, resulted in the engineers stopped the trouble shooting steps and not proceed to examine the engine thrust control as required in AMM chapter 71-00-49. This is likely the reason why the defect prolonged."
@@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty 65 incidents recorded by the Quick Access Recorder and 7 that year. And no one noticed anything? Except maybe the first officer who was alongside the captain the year previous as described by Petter in the "serious incident ". What, did he wait for the plane to crash a year later and then decide to spill his guts on the previous incident then? Multiples of systemic and organisational failures here. Pilots and this accident are just the conduit through which these failures have come to light. Have the 130 other first officers and captains been hauled over the coals regarding failures to report, or did they see nothing too? They are all just lucky it didn't go so wrong on their watch! Its not judgement that spared all the rest, its luck! Imho. RIP to all those who died.
I’ve watched every one of your vids. They are so good and informational. Thank you for everything you do
!
You always post wonderful informational videos. You have such an understanding of your subject and the delivery of a natural teacher. Keep it up. Stay safe.
It's sad when these accidents occur because of a persistent mechanical issue that is never properly diagnosed and fixed. In my opinion every system in a passenger aircraft should be considered critical, especially those that directly impact the flight characteristics of the aircraft. It's not like when the "Check Engine" light comes on in your car.
Uh, please don't ignore the Check Engine warning in your car either! Part of why traveling by car is so unsafe is because people don't have awareness for the force they are commanding. Some of the causes that trigger the warning are pretty severe failures that could result in a fire, for example.
Oh for Gods sake. Tell me about all the times there's been a major car accident because someone didn't immediately address a check engine light. You're not at 30,000ft in a car. It's okay if the car doesn't end up at the shop right away. I'd like to see the reaction of a tow truck driver if the only reason you called them was that your check engine light was on. They'd look at you like you're a damn fool. Oil light on, yes pull over because you can ruin your engine. Check engine light does not mean your car is about to explode. @@sleepysera
@@sleepysera Check Engine lights have little to no critical function.
Name me one NTSB report a fire occurred from a Check Engine light...
I don't have much to add.. the comments speak for themselves.. I just want to tell about myself.. I have always been extremely afraid of flying. You have no idea how difficult it was for me to get through a flight. In the last six months after I discovered this channel and saw all the videos, something changed in me.. In the last three flights I used to sit and wait for fear.. nothing happened.. the fear disappeared completely.. and on the contrary I found myself reassuring other people.. I want to say thank you From the heart! Waiting for every new video with great excitement!
It's often said that we fear what we don't understand.
The greater your understanding of how aviation works and the chain of unlikely events that cause accidents the less you fear. :)
That's really remarkable. I'm so happy for you! I understand the crippling fear of flying.
Hurray! Now you can enjoy flying and travel!
@@mbvoelker8448 Lol! My sister is afraid to fly and I'm afraid of spiders. One day we were traveling down the road when I saw a spider on my window and freaked out so my dad pulled over and told my sister to get it.
She said to my dad "Oh brother, it's just a little thing"! I said "Well, planes can be too, but you wouldn't board a little one, either"!😉
That is really sad to sit there for hours in fear. It would have probably helped to have a little therapy dog, sitting w/you throughout the flight. I'm glad you no longer fear flying. Mentour Pilot is very generous in sharing his expertise.✈
Heard some really short news clips on radio about some near miss incidences in USA over the last week. I hope you make a video about what is up with that soon. You always provide way more info than any news coverage. I really appreciate your extremely detailed explanations.
Extremely well explained. I really enjoy these videos. Keep up the good work! 👍
Thanks Petter, great video as always.
As a retired 737 captain, I’m blown away by the lack of monitoring of flight instruments and controls to allow this sort of thing to happen, and the lack of reporting of events that eventually lead up to this.
But then, it is Indonesia, so sadly, hardly surprising.
Remember (amongst so many others) Adam Air. 😢
Some will say I’m being harsh, but the runs are on the board.
Indeed. I would also add Air Asia Indonesia Flight 8501 were nearly the same negligence of the Maintenance happened as in this case.
As a regular viewer for quite some time now, the production value of these just keeps getting better and better. Thanks!
Glad you enjoy it!
I been watching the videos for about a month now and I love it the details you go through it's amazing and not only on technical side but also on human side your explanation is fantastic, helped me understand how someone could not see something obvious. I'm not a pilot, I just flew in WWII sim's sometime ago, I know some thing so for me they way you doing things is absolute perfection. Love the work and the accent 💙
Love your vids ! watch them all repeatedly, @16:48 you state the autopilot mode changes from L-NAV to Heading, the vid shows the V-NAV not L-NAV.
Just letting you know !
Keep up the amazing work you do !
This is just so terrifying to me. All he did was be distracted for like 15 seconds and then turn the wheel and bam. All those lives lost. I'm a bit opposite of many comments. I never had a fear of flying before and flew quite a bit. Now after watching these videos, idk how we don't have more accidents. If just one detail is missed, one step taken incorrectly, it's done for everyone. I have so much more respect for pilots after this. Feel like I want to bring mine a huge gift basket on my next flight 😭
"If just one detail is missed, one step taken incorrectly, it's done for everyone."
But it wasn't just one detail missed. It was the lack of proper maintenance, which ended in two systems failing (the autothrottle system and the CTS-system), that was combined with the pilots not monitoring their systems which led to being surprised and out of surprise reacting the wrong way (partly because of wrong training). I'd argue that this wasn't just one missed detail, but a lot of them on different levels, that had to come together.
@@livinghypocrite5289 I think part of what's so unexpected is also the timeframe of potential recovery being so small. Maybe it's just me, but unlike something like a bus where I obviously expect a crash right away if the driver messes up, I always was under the impression that, with the usual altitude planes travel at, there would be a lot more that could be done if something goes wrong. Hearing about how basically one wrong input at the wrong time is enough to bring a plane down, because there's only seconds between the input and the crash too despite the high altitude, is pretty shocking 😅
In this particular case, of course several factors combined, but ultimately none of them would have mattered if the pilots had just taken a single look at their thrust levers. It amazes me flying is as safe as it is with how little can cause major upsets, just means the average pilot is doing that great.
Great video for this terrible accident 😢 As always, I love the way you explain, and the animation is perfect 🙏
Everytime i watch your videos i realize how lucky i was…😅😅😅 I have logged over 29.000 hrs in a lot of commercial jet modela, from the 737/200 all the way to the A350, being a training captain in all of them, and apart from couple
of engine failures and 2
or 3 partial hydraulic failures i had a quite uneventful 43 year carrer!! Cheers Peter, keep
up the wonderful work!!
This video to me felt just like Air Crash Investigation I used to watch years ago, I believe it is no longer continued, so I'm really grateful that you made this video because it does feel like I'm watching the continuation.
I remember watching this on the news in early 2021! Weird to think it was 2 years ago already! The most frustrating thing about the accident is that the chain of events had started nearly a decade prior, which was more than enough time to sort out the problem completely, but it sadly didn’t!
and there where multiple system in place to prevent that incident.
Yes.
👍
You and your team continue to explain these incidents and tragedies in a way that anyone can follow while still maintaining just enough technical education to truly set yourselves apart. Thank you to all you at Mentour for giving us in depth and easy to understand summaries of these often tedious and insanely long and detailed reports (I studied aerospace engineering, and I still remember doing case studies on air incidents as part of our undergrad) to help tell the world why flying is so safe today!
Hah, that’s similar to my experience with the introductory training to working safely on the apron and aircraft stands. When the training video featured past incidents to teach us not to do the same or similar things I felt a sinking feeling when I realised I’d already learned it from this channel and knew what was about to happen, particularly during my ramp training about the importance of loading and labelling cargo properly and what things are hazardous such as lithium batteries. I recognised UPS flight 6 immediately and I still feel sympathy for that poor first officer and what he endured alone for the final minutes of his life. But yeah much of the things I’ve learnt from this channel built the foundation of my understanding of aircraft which I’ve since built on.
😆 You know that the lessons have truly sunk in when he apologised for being technical at the start of this video and the responding thought was “this is technical?” Before the thought scatters while following the narrative.
This was very well explained as usual, excellent job
I always love your straightforward and non-biased videos. You also show compassion for any tragic incidences. I am a Patron member, and sometimes I will watch a favorite video more than once. I get Menor Pilot withdrawals waiting for new videos. 😉
This flight always sends chill to my spine. I took PK-CLC (Citra) on December 2 or 3 weeks prior, from Semarang (SRG) to Makassar (UPG). Nothing unusual or remarkable, other than Old Classic 737. I sat on my table with families & relatives during this accident. I just froze when hearing the news on TV.
I can imagine that.
I live in Pontianak, and relieved this explanation finally come out. Thank's, Petter!
@mentourpilot just subbed to your amazing channel as an avid aviation fan and trainee ppl student ( suspended due to cost ) I really enjoy watching you just back from a very enjoyable trip to Marrakesch I was sat next to a nervous lady, who because of my understanding of aircraft and flight was able to put her at ease explaining the noises accossiated with gear coming up etc the aircraft we flew out on was an Easy Jey A319 safe flights to you from your latest fan. 👍
Love the channel. Do Quick Access Recorders fall under the same rules as Flite Data or Cockpit Voice Recorders. In other words, are they looked at with the same level of questions, or is the operator of the a/c able to access these recorders without anyone else seeing them?
Petter is so good, I don't even fast forward his ad segment! I would listen to him read the phone book! he's so good!
Awww 💕💕
Finally a new Mentour Pilot Video!
Looking forward to learn what has caused that tragedy and how it made aviation safer!
Literally found your channel earlier this month and now I can't let a day go by without watching at least one of your videos...phenomenally researched and articulated and the visual design and animation is crisp and brilliantly executed. I have a request: if you can do a video on the Air India Express crash in Mangalore, India in 2010? I lost my 16 year old cousin in that plane crash. 🙏🏽
Thank you for your videos ... they are informative and really deep dive into both the technical but also the human side of aviation upsets.
Thank you sincerely for your continued generosity in giving so much to a grateful community of followers 🙏 👍
It's my pleasure! 💕
Never been in a cockpit but it seems insane that someone wouldn’t notice the split thrust levers .
or the bank angle increasing in the wrong direction. or the engine performance displays. or the navigation display.
Or the pfd or flight director
I’d think you’d notice the thrust lever split 90% of the time, but I’ll give them a free pass on that. If it was the last flight of the day or they hadn’t slept well the night before, then perhaps they weren’t at their sharpest and the levers are on the periphery of your vision. Not noticing the left turn is egregious, however, especially since they were in transient, both in heading and altitude-they really should’ve been watching the plane closely during this phase.
What really kills me though is the complete failure to recover from the upset. His right hand should have instinctively gone to the thrust levers and he would have noticed the split. A lack of recent upset training really doesn’t excuse this as this is such a BASIC skill. It almost the equivalent of swerving to avoid an animal but completely forgetting to use the brake (not a perfect analogy). On top of that, you’ve got the first officer being COMPLETELY useless, just screaming, “captain, Captain!” Like..dude, take over the dang controls if the captain is botching the recovery 🤦🏼
@@jacobshaw808 that's a good point. I think you could miss the split if one is roughly where it belongs and one is moving. However disconnecting autopilot and NOT putting one hand on the throttle is really weird, especially if taken by surprise, and at that moment you should feel something is wrong. I feel like we have heard a lot of stories out of Indonesia.
@@jacobshaw808 Per the video, it was this crew's _first_ flight of the day.
I love all you videos. You do a great job explaining what can go wrong with a flight. Thank you
I love these videos! I'm in mechanical engineering and we come across many troubleshooting experiences similar to the venn diagram you showed, though not with such dramatic consequences. Just the other day we had replaced the transmission in a piece of machinery and the new transmission made grinding noises at every shift. we drained the oil, send a sample for analysis.. asked the manufacturer for oil fill procedures, checked and double checked again and again and still, in every test drive, that grinding noise came back.
We put the machine on jackstands and ran some tests in the shop with one mechanic driving the machine with it's wheels off the ground and the other one sitting next to the open hood looking at what was going on in there. It turned out to be the powertrain assembly not being properly lined up on the engine mounts and the cooling fan being too close to the radiator shroud. At every gear change, the motor would jolt slightly and the fan blades were grinding against the shroud. All that time, the logic seemed to be that an issue fixed with the transmission must mean the this problem also came from the transmission! In any situation, never assume that what you think is happening is really what is happening!!
Indeed, exactly.
I remember when this accident happened.. one of the first things I thought was… interested to what my favorite pilot UA-camrs have to say about this… thanks for another informative vid. Love you guys!
Peace and love to the families of those lost in this horrible accident
Oooh, by total coincidence, I'm watching this on a rainy afternoon in the departure lounge at Jakarta! Luckily, I'm in no way a nervous flyer - a PPL who watches as many accident in incident videos as possible in order to learn from the experience of others. Thanks again for all your hard work.
Another perfect review of an accident sequence. Your conclusions are spot on. I would like to add that having tactile feedback (when available) can prevent an upset before it happens. Always keep your hands on yoke and thrust levers, at least until the 10 thousand foot mark. More important still is for the Pilot Flying to be flying the aircraft even on full automation, this includes scanning your instruments. Thanks for these videos, I always look forward to them as I always learn something new. Bravo!
👍
Indeed, exactly.
I know this may seem like something very small, but I absolutely love it when you specify a certain detain will become important later! It becomes a lot easier to follow the technical explanations when you guide us through it like that. Thank you for another great video
I always say, "Uh-oh" when he says that.
We love and are absolutely addicted to your content. We really appreciate they way this series narrates accidents and incidents and we love nerding out on all the mechanical, engineering or scientific explanations. We would love to see a video about the Spanair flight 5022 accident.
Thank you very much for your content!
Many thanks. I had flown with Sriwijaya several times not long before this occurred (between Jawa and Sumatra) and was of course shocked and saddened by the accident. But until today I didn't know what was the cause.
As a professional driver (18 years) I was taught always scan your gauges mirrors every few seconds. You wouldn't believe how many problems prevented by doing this. ALL PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS HOLDING OTHER PEOPLE 'S LIVES SHOULD DO THIS. ALWAYS!!!!!!???
It seems that systems that are implemented to make the pilot's job easier actually can make the pilot's job more difficult when those systems fail without the pilots being aware of the failure and it's ramifications.
Yes, that’s unfortunately always the case.
I know things are vastly more complicated than it seems from my couch, but I do feel like a mild amount of _extra_ computer guard rails + human oriented UX could have prevented this issue - if a significant difference in thrust is detected, you could have a chime that says in a human voice "Thrust asymmetry" every so often until confirmed as intentional on the flight computer. Gmail bugs me when I try to send an email that says "attached are photos.." without any attachments... I feel like a plane should be able to do something similar for pilots.
I'm sure someone smarter than me thought of this and maybe they found it would be too spurious / annoying for the vast majority of pilots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@gdehms I guess I was thinking about other accidents that killed many. For example, the recent Boeing 737 Max accidents could have been avoided if the MCAS had been implemented better. I also think of Lada Air where the thrust reverser had deployed in flight. I wonder if the pilots could have shut down the engine quickly would that have made a difference? There are enough sensors in airliners that a decent program could provide a more intuitive interface to the pilots, not replace their judgement.
@@gdehms there's of course always a balance between too many and too few warnings. If the plane warned the pilots of every single thing, there would be warning chimes ringing in the cockpit all the time. So some of the more obvious faults causing autopilot disconnect, like asymmetric thrust, are left for the pilots to discover since it's right in front of you (thrust levers and engine instruments both immediately reveal the problem). In this case, though, the thrust asymmetry warning wouldn't have worked regardless, since the system that should have detected it wasn't working. And since the pilots didn't react correctly to the bank angle warning due to being startled, it's a bit unclear if another warning on top would have helped. The pilots were already in trouble after losing situational awareness in IFR conditions, they just didn't know it. Perhaps a "look at your instruments" warning every 20 seconds would have been useful here..
I always watch all of your videos mate a take care of your selfs when flying airbus iv got a receaver I love listening to aircraft keep the good work going man
Hello Peter, I really enjoy your breakdowns of accidents and near accidents. It makes them very understandable. I have about 15 hours in C-172 over 30 years ago, so I have enough real personal flight experience to be dangerous and not helpful. One thing I thought about watching the above video, has there been any discussion that you know of regarding changing the “Bank Angle” audible alert to include the direction? Something like “Bank Angle Left” in this case. We will never know if an alert like that would have triggered this captain to better recognize this event, but it seems to me it might have triggered his hyper focus on the yoke to recognized the incongruence between the yoke position and the alert for the “Bank Angle Left”. Perhaps he might have taken the moment longer to find his artificial horizon?
I am a Paramedic by training and I am also very aware of alarm overload and fatigue in some situations. Adding extra detail to the audible alert may not be preferred for other very good reasons. Thanks for your time.
I literally crying for each chapter passed.
Yeah, it’s a pretty sad story throughout
You & Kelsey are the only two aircraft channels I watch. The graphics on Mentour are excellent. In one picture, that Swiss cheese diagram describes perfectly how disasters happen (I don’t care if you didn’t invent it). That aileron/spoiler shot was the first time I ever saw the difference between the two. Love your content
Peter, I like your videos so much, I even cought myself watching your entire commercial. Great content which teaches you a bit of everything, aviation, psychology, physics, weather, geography, technical stuff etc.. Love your voice and humble attitude and wisdom telling these one of a kind stories. Thank you for making so many episodes and cheers to bingewatching. Greetings from Prague!
Welcome to the club. I find myself neglecting or postponing other priorities to binge addict watch these videos. I was a plane mechanic up until 1985 but still never forgot my love of aviation. Thus these rekindled the spark.
I’ve always looked for your videos to understand aviation accidents because you’re so good at explaining them. Any chance you could do Alaska Airlines 261? I find it so fascinating yet horrifying
The most difficult part seems to me training your reflexes to always quickly assess THEN react. Not so much applying immediate a (perceived) solution, but following a set of visual and mental steps.
true for the last seconds. but... an instrument and/or flight control scan would have shown: Engine levers in disagreeing position. Engine with wildly different performances. With those indications, the correct action would be obvious.
Artificial horizon showing a wrong direction: Hold the flight controls/increase input - not the "corrective" action, but at least not making things worse.
Eh. Hard and hard. Someone new at driving a car and a bird hits the windscreen? Can you expect the driver to not sway and end up crashing into something? But someone supposedly experienced and trained should not flip out and take actions that are deadly or just wrong.
Have driven vehicles and had birds hit me right in the face out of no where and only closed my eyes for a split second before recovering my senses. It helps having a windscreen that can take the hit for you. Was driving a 24m long 60 000kg heavy lorry at 80km/h. 3 lane road with cars traveling next to me and nothing to stop me jumping over to the oncoming 3 lanes if the bird startled me. Ones in a position of being trusted to not make rash reactions when flying or maneuvering anything. The bird hitting your vehicle even if in your face is not meant to have you take any reaction not even hit the brakes even. Your expected to be so well aware of your surrounding and have the situation awareness to be able to quickly asses and have everything under control. The person riding with me was half a sleep and wondered what the sound was from. If not for the huge DUNK into the windscreen there was no upset but the drivers eyes blink and then everything was over like nothing happened.
Imagen the damage that can be caused from just a bird or a fly hitting someones windscreen. Or bonnet flying open or literately anything. Someone not really experienced or whatever is not really ready for that. I remember the summers of having flies hit my windscreen. I'm awful when it comes to people throwing balls or anything towards me. It is just to dangers to not quickly assess THEN react.
Only time it is react and THEN asses is emergency braking or getting out of a drift/loss of traction. There is no time but react.
But since I started to become even half decent at driving my FPS shooter and in general sharp reflexes are just totally gone :c. It is really hard pulling a virtual trigger on someone as fast anymore. It takes everything out of me to get out of the mindset of not quickly assessing and just flick shot someone. It is really upsetting having to super focus to get flick shots off. It was not something I struggled with before driving.
24:03 I'm not a pilot but when you're flying in clouds and hear "Bank Angle" warning, shouldn't you look at the attitude indicator and maybe backup attitude indicator to figure out what to do, instead of looking or feeling the yoke? When you consider what could possibly fail in a modern jet, attitude indicator is maybe the most reliable data input you can have.
I think that's one thing I've picked up from a few of these videos - although we like to think that every Captain is going to be a Chuck Yeager who will react with 'ice cool' logic in a surprising situation or upset, most pilots are normal humans - if they're not getting regular training on upsets they can just freeze or brain fart like the rest of us.
Just subscribed as I am an aviation nut and have had flying lessons but due to expenses it is on hold. I love watching your content and did land the aircraft a cesena 172 on my first lesson .👍👍
Excellent technical review, thank you. Amazing how such a minor oversight can lead to chaos.
I’ve been noticing that your video quality be it old or the newer uploads have been consistently really really good! Kudos to you and your team. A lot of people tend to not watch old videos of a creator assuming that the quality/format won’t be as good as their recent uploads, but that’s not the case with your channel! Thank you and keep up the good work!!
Petter, you are one professional pilot who present information in an understandable format and you have an extremely talented production crew.
Glad I got to know you!! 🎉
Thank you so much on behalf of the whole team