@@WhoIsAlexElliott I do both mixing and tracking in my room so low latency is really important. There is also currently no way of bypassing the Trinnov completely, so you will have latency wether room correction is engages or not (and yes my monitors costs more than 3000$ 😉) I currently use Sonarworks, which I think is just OK, but you need to bypass it every time you track, the sonarworks systemwide app is very buggy and if mixing with multiple monitors then it is not great.
@@HOTROD256969 I recommend going the route of a company like Gik acoustics first. They actually offer free consultations and guide you on how to take a room measurement yourself. + you can then send the measurement to them aswell as room pictures and they will recommend any studio repositioning and then tell you what acoustic treatment you need. Once you’ve got some basic treatment then something like this Arc studio will absolute neaten things up and be the cherry ontop.
I appreciate the transparency and honesty. Ive heard only the good things about ArC Studio but no one really mentioned any constructive criticism like you did. I think I will get it still to see for myself eventually. Thanks again!
In my situation, I would use this for mixing only, not producing. So, is it easy to turn it off so I can do some back-and-forth while producing/mixing?
Loved that latency gag where you delay the audio... And you seem to have a great attitude towards the review. Subscribed and interested to see your future content :)
Definitely worth highlighting the linear phase EQ issue with the Arc Studio! However it's my understanding that delay is part of what makes a linear phase EQ work, so surely this would be the case with any system using linear phase eq
Yes you’re correct. It would be the case with any linear phase EQ. But I guess I had thought because it was now in a hardware unit it would be reduced or less.
Great video, I would like to try the ARC Studio but think room treatment should be applied first. Good you mentioned the decay time which won’t be solved by eq correction. I think for most people good headphones would be a better solution since we can take the environment completely out of the equation. I use headphone eq correction to the Harman target with crosstalk on plannar headphones which have a good low-end and fast transients. The low end is the most difficult part to translate right and I definitely recommend a good sub for that. All in all a good speaker setup could end up being pretty expensive imo. Headphones are for me a absolute winner.
I agree. I’ve achieved great results with headphones also. Speakers become powerful when your with people and some people find the headphone mixing challenging. But I agree with you and ultimately there are strengths to both! Budget is always a key factor in these things 😅
@@WhoIsAlexElliott I totally agree that headphone mixing can be challenging specially with the amount of effects and the balance of the stereo field. I think that for most beginners the Slate VSX would be an excellent choice as far as I understand from a lot of skeptical people it seems to be pretty darn good. If I would upgrade my speaker system I would need to add a sub, room treatment and correction software which would easily end up over a thousand dollars of investment. Since the dimensions of my small room isn’t really optimal I think it would be a waste of money compared to a 300 dollar Slate VSX system. Eventually it all depends on the fact that we learn how our monitor system translates to different systems and that we get to know it. Eventually we need to learn this and stick with it 😀
@@Studio22mix True. But if you already have speakers you love, acoustic treatment is the best investment you’ll ever make & then this unit would be the icing on cake. Headphones can be a good but the end goal is always great speakers, and a great room 😍. And learning your speakers is great. But in my experience, learning that a kick drum should sound weak in my room in order to sound strong outside because I have bass issues is a buzz kill & kill joy. I’d rather my room, just sound great 😅.
Concerning the latency, One doesn't need room correction when tracking. You could just hit the button and turn it off when tracking, then turn it on for a mix. I assume at least. I only just ordered this unit.
Yes it depends on workflow. But that is a possibility. For me personally a great mix starts with great sound selection. So hearing accurately when tracking is super Important for me. But you can for sure make it work by turning it off.
If I press the correction switch is the off mode a true bypass? as yes I can't deal with latency for recording that has to be minimised as much as possible, but well monitors sound good anyways in treated room, switching it off for recording wouldn't be a big deal and then switch on for listening purpose.
Yes the button is a true bypass 👌. So if you’re ok with that workflow then that can work. Although for me my ears will have no perspective on how my speakers are meant to sound as it will get used to one thing and then I’ll click the button and it’ll all change. I would have to learn two different sound profiles in my head which is very confusing for me and may be for others also.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Hmm, yes that's true, although I guess I would treat the recording process different from the mixing, like you could just be recording with headphones as is usually the experience for the player.. A jack for a remote foot switch bypass would have been nice. I'm interested to see what it does to eek out some more detail when listening. I do fully agree on the latency as recently we had some Dutch & Dutch speakers here a week, a most incredible sonic experience but yeah you can't use them to record yourself even in their low-latency mode they add 3ms which coupled with the rest of the system puts the attack behind pressing a key or playing a note on the guitar, it feels sluggish which throws off the timing.
Ahh yes indeed. I realised that you manually mean instrument recoding also but for me it’s when I’m producing that I mostly benefit from room correction because it can seriously effect what sounds you choose, especially kick drums which can comprise the low end of your mix of chosen wrong. That’s why I opted to just treat my room, that and reverb decay time
Hey there, I just got these today and set them up - took me some time to realise the output of my Motu was overloading the Arc, which doesn't have that much headroom - even a little clipping had really bad effects - so word to the people just getting one, you may have to operate at a different output level to your speakers! Once I had it going, it works really well - my room is also luckily perfect for it, by chance. Thanks for the honesty, Alex.
I have a purpose built mixing room with excellent treatment and was already very content with sound I was hearing (and seeing) especially the stereo imaging. However, when I added Arc it blew me away, it corrected two issues one low, one high that until that point hadn't really bothered me but the bigger surprise was that in natural mode the imaging was even better! I think the issue that you are getting is to do with your room. I think ARC or any other form of room correction should be thought of as a final 'tweaker' not a 'fixer', that's the job of acoustic treatment. 😎
So just to re clarify the issue I was having is that my speakers sounded better with it off versus the Natural mode. And it did sound better with it on in Linear mode but the latency was too much. There was no noticeable difference in my stereo imaging but my speakers and room were pretty well set up. It’s not an issue with my room, but if it is an issue with my room then it just further proves the point of the video that this unit cannot correct significant room issues, and works better in a room with acoustic treatment like yours. I’m truly glad you found a solution that works for you. Also my main issue is the latency not the idea of the unit.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Sorry for the late reply. I think this unit is really targeting the home studio / budget studio owners. Most users of that kind of equipment have rather cheap audio interfaces (mostly on USB 2.0) that introduce a LOT of latency anyway. The best advise I could give for that kind of users is to spend a little more on their audio interface to reduce latency (for instance: the MOTU M series are not very expensive at all, but have a relatively really low latency). If you then add the ARC system to that complete chain they will have about the same (and probably much lower) latency as with the cheaper audio interface models without the correction unit at all. And it will give you also the benefit of a much higher audio quality. But what I really wonder about is if that latency is also present if the ARC unit is doing no correction at all. If that is the case, you could turn off the unit (after setting up the instrument sound palette to your liking) for those moments that the really tight timing is important. After that you can playback with correction on for mixing purposes. But I honestly think most of the users with cheaper equipment (especially cheap audio units) are already used to a fair amount of latency anyway, and correct the misaligned timings in their DAW software.
@@jclosed2516just to clarify the arc latency is fixed at 414-42ms of latency. It’s up to the individual if this tolerable of course. If your doing any music to visual this is a headache ofcourse as well as tracking guitars via d.I whiles playing out of the speakers etc. the musicians I was recording couldn’t stand it.
@@jclosed2516I agree with you regarding their target audience though. But I had to make the video so people who are more professional can understand the potential limitations. There definitely was an assumption that with it being a hardware box the latency would be less.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Fair enough. The latency is indeed rather high in this case. As a keyboard player that often use MIDI I can relate to latency being a pain in the behind. That's the reason I suggested to turn off the unit while timing is more important than room correction. That's why I wanted to know if that latency is also present if the unit is switched off. If there is no (or very little) latency, I think the setup could be workable for me.
Hi, I am a little late on this, but just wanted to add this: The latency is only a problem with this new fancy hardware unit. But you can still use the ARC software in the master channel of your DAW. It has been around like that for years. No latency issue then, because it will be corrected in the DAW.
I personally preferred the Natural mode over the Linear mode, due to the pre-ringing in the low end. I find it to be extremely good. I am only using it in a B room setup, as it is only 2 channels.
I would say even if you are a producer but you mix 5% of the time, if you notice no difference when it is bypassed, it's still worth it just to check for major issues before sending your stuff to a mixer. Or to engage when you are occasionally mixing. It's VERY inexpensivve.
When producing it’s all about sound selection. A great mix starts off with great instrument selection/sound choice. So hearing accurate during the production stage is key. There have been many times I’ve received stems to mix and been asked to make it sound like something else but the sound selection was wrong. I can instantly tell the person who produced it wasn’t hearing properly in their room. Especially when it came to kick/BASS relationship.
Thanks for this info. Very helpful as I’m purchasing ARC studio 4 because I work in a less than ideal home studio. Question: is the latency present if you are using the dedicated hardware or just with the VST?
Yes it’s present with the hardware. That most exciting thing for me was hoping the latency would not be present because its hardware but it’s still there and is 42ms (& 1.4ms in natural mode). So just wanted to let people know who have same struggle as me with latency.
YES! This is a great point that people need to be aware of with this kind of software, it is NOT a substitute for room treatment.. It alters the EQ curve but not the reverb time. If you have a resonance at 50hz that takes a second to decay then no EQ is going to fix that, only lots of very thick absorption. I have exactly that issue in my room and it has required a LOT of absorption!
that can work, its not for me as my speaker sound will constantly be changing throughout the day as I switch and I need to trust them and know them 100%. But I'm super sensitive to this stuff as most folks wont be as bothered as me.
One question. To your experience, do you think it's indispensable to jave room correction when Mixing? Or is it just a matter of learning monitors? I just corrected my speakers but just sounds to me like theres a lack of Bass. Help please 😢
I think that room acoustic treatment is what’s indispensable. In particular bass trapping. Otherwise you’ll have a horrible time trying to mix and trusting your speakers, but if you can’t get that then things like arc are good. Ideally you want arc and rockwool treatment. In regards to the lack of low end that is the toughest pill to swallow when working in well treated rooms, balanced speakers will appear to have less bass but that’s because we are used to the sound of a room exciting bass frequencies, as well as most leisure speakers being tuned to have enhanced bass. But if your really serious about mixing then I’d say embrace the adjustment, eventually your ears will recalibrate and become attuned to realise that mid range and lower midrange is where “the men are separated from the boys” in terms of how good a speaker is. And by balancing your mids your mix is 80% there. So rather than thinking you have less bass appreciate that you’re now hearing more mid information (assuming your speakers are now measuring flatter)
Listen to all your favourite records again and relearn them. And yes learning speakers in your room is key. For example if I took my speakers to another room I’d still have an initial struggle cause they would sound completely different.
Weird that you had some resolution issues with your ARC box. I have not noticed anything fishy in the ultra highs at all. Maybe yours is not functioning correctly. I DID notice a little pre ringing in linier phase mode, and actually preferred the "Natural" phase mode with the ARC set for "Broad". It seemed natural and had no artifacts. As for latency, yeah the linier mode is about 22MS at 96K, but the "Natural mode is less than 1Ms. Not a deal breaker for me but I get it.
So there was no problem with the unit. I was just hearing the phase issues being introduced by the EQ correction and the high end in my monitors sounded much better without the units correction when having natural phase mode. 👌
It could to know latency is less at 96k but most people don’t use 96k and it is 42ms at 44.1 unfortunately. I think it works for some people. But a few people like myself were expecting less latency because it’s a hardware box.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott I used Arc 3 for a couple of years and have ARC 4 in line with my Adams, but I've since upgraded to PMC and they have corrective EQ that is pretty good. I'm curious now about how they sound with the PMC's. Maybe I'll notice the phase stuff in the high end you are talking about. Gonna try it. ARC definitely improved my mixes through the smaller 2 way Adams though. Good review.
@@kniferideaudioif you have PMC with the built in EQ option your absolutely sorted. No need for ARC. Arc didn’t do any time/phase alignment stuff. It’s purely corrective EQ. So between REW EQ measurements and your PMC WQ you have the best possible set up already. No point adding another stage of corrective EQ with the arc, it’ll likely just introduce unwanted phase issues if you have both inbuilt Eq and Arc at same time.
I'm intending to use ARC4 software only (no rig) for live VST playing (no DAW though), does the ARC4 software add much latency besides sound interface¿? Thanks
Same advice I gave to others to use room acoustics. If you look carefully my room is actually covered in treatment. That entire rear wall is tuned 40hz bass traps also ❤
Great video Alex! my home studio is 2.1. (JBL 305's and 310 Sub). I am seeking a hardware solution. Will this hardware unit integrate to a 2.1 system? if not, would you recommend a h/w unit that would? Keep up the great videos! Cheers!
Assuming your Satellite monitors are plugged into the subwoofer and the subwoofer has a stereo output, then yes it would integrate well. You can come out of your audio interface into the arc, & then the IK arc studio output would be able to plug into the subwoofer, and then output of subwoofer into the Satellites (stereo speakers). When taking the room measurement the arc would just measure your system as one integrated system. Whatever it hears is what it will measure (in your case your subwoofer in combination with your satellites). On separate note I would just experiment a lot with speaker positioning before fine tuning with the IK arc studio. If I was in your position I would measure with the arc and then move the subwoofer around and check which position is improving the sound the most, once I had sub in best position I would then apply the correction. 👌. This is because the position of your subwoofer in your room will have the best impact on low end response.
I was really curious about having the correction built into the hardware itself, set and forget kind of vibe. Back when I tried sonar works it didn’t have the system wide sound option yet & in the past but felt like it was causing phasing issues and I was loosing my transients. Do you have much experience with Sonar-works. How do you find it?
If you have the patience then go for it. But for me that defeats the purpose. Imagine making a beat with it turned off. Then turning it on to realise the kick / 808 you chose was trash and has way less bass in it that you thought but your room was lying to you … 🙈. Or you chose a synth that was warmer sounding only to realise your room had a dip at 5k and they synth is actually harsher than you thought etc …
forgive me if ive got this wrong but if your tracking with headphones on you dont want the unit on, and why are people connecting it from the interface and not from the speaker out of a monitor station that way your headphone mix out to the drummer is completely out of the signal path
@@deesoundrecordingstudio9739 you do connect it from the speaker out. But if your playing in the room DI with the guitar sound coming out the speakers like lots of people love to do then it’s an issue & Especially if your a Producer working alone playing hardware synths out the speakers to get the vibe. Then All your stuff will have an extra 42ms latency added on above the latency of your interface. But if your ok to only and always track in headphones then you can get around the latency. And if your ok to play all your midi in only using headphones then you can escape the latency. I’m not ok to do this so just wanted to give like minded individuals a heads up
42ms from the unit. And then add your interface latency / DAW buffer size latency ontop of that. But in normal mode the latency isn’t noticeable but it also doesn’t sound as good as linear
Great video. I don’t use mine personally until I get to the mixing stage; same as wouldn’t use any heavy bus processing when recording/programming/producing, just because at that stage you are focused on getting the recording and the notes in with zero or as little latency as possible.
That’s a good work around. And if your room is already half decent it works well. But sound selection is so important that hearing accurately can effect what bass and kick samples you choose etc. so would be great for them to get the latency down for the next release so we can create and mix through it. That would be amazing!
Great video! Going to get the Arc Studio, but for Hi-FI use in a dodgy (arch ceiling) room. The ARC sits nicely between the preamp and power amp and a pair of Focal Sopra 2s :) Subscribed!
that is exactly the perfect use case for this unit! I don't have my hifi set up yet, as studio monitors are so expensive as it is. But I cant wait to have my own hifi room
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Anyway, for tracking we don t need this... For playing back, the latency won t matter at all....Anyway, I prefer to treat a room, even if not that well, and injecting eq curves on a speaker, or having a speaker sounding like another speaker......LoL, this last one says it all :)
Yeah I opted for manual route of Gik acoustics room treatment also. I agree about the eq part, I didn’t want to get into those details int he video but unless done properly like trinnov then it messes with phase alignment which affects perception of dynamics, in short transients are less punchy and snappy. And for music producers who program then it would matter for tracking as great production starts with great sound selection, so it would be a case of producing with this turned on!
Interesting i was looking at this for my ( I use VSX and sonarworks for music production and i love them so much i wanted to try something similar in my house audio.) This is slightly cheaper then the home audio most popular product minidsp. latency is not an issue for this purpose as is just listening. i have 5 rooms all connected to the the same digital input) getting that out of sync very much could be as issue. I was only planning on using it in 2 of those rooms so now i have to consider getting 5 or rethink my whole situation. Yeah i decided to go with mini-dsp. It's only $200 more uses Dirac which only results in 8ms delay and Dirac seems to have to significantly more advanced features in room correction beyond just EQ.
No GIK acoustics. But built it up over the years. Getting an extra panel each time I got paid and then measuring each time so I really saw the accumulative differences. Such an eye opening journey.
I think it's a great unit (not only for the price). I went the acoustic treatment route as much as I could and spent as much for the treatment itself as for my monitors (Barefoot Footprints 01 at the moment). I used Sonarworks in the last couple years and while I enjoyed the accuracy and flexibility of that software I was always looking for a way to get this out of the box because of the price you pay for systemwide use or in a plugin in form of latency and CPU load. The linear mode in this unit sounds great but clearly introduces some latency and when I record or produce I rather turn it off or use it in natural mode - which is not as bad as throwing a bitcrusher on my mixbus :)
For myself I personally couldn’t Deal with the normal Mode but Im very sensitive to Eq’s introducing phase issues. Naturally the “normal mode” cannot avoid phase issues being introduced, but I agree the Linear mode does sound great it’s just that darn latency for me! 😅 I’ll do a review on my speakers soon but the main thing I loved about them & made me spend the £7k on them was the transient articulation and the high end, so imagine my disappointment when the normal mode was giving me more low end but ruining the thing that made me love & buy my speakers. Kind of defeats the purpose of adding this unit into my set up! But it sounded great in Linear mode.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Or maybe restrict the treatment only to lower mids and mids. You can tell with HP and LP filters what frequencies will it apply the correction to.
If you’re ok to use the natural phase mode then the latency is much lower but it doesn’t sound as good as the linear phase mode that has the increased latency. Best thing I’d say is try to get your hands on one (buy and return) and test it out in your set up & just make sure wherever you get it from offers a return policy
I would dump their hardware, use REW and a calibration mic, run it through your audio interface, then use the IK software to apply the EQ Curves. Only issue with Nova Trinnov setups are that they don't fix anything in reality. They squeeze the sound out at various frequencies to all the speakers and essentially are modifying your sound. i don't think any system that modifies your sound in software is a good solution. Spending more on room treatment would be the best approach (and in your home, you can only do so much anyway). In the end, if you are talented, have a good ear, can use the hardware/software at your disposable, then that is all you need. Majority of the top selling music has been produced in small bedrooms in recent times not in flashy studios running Trinnov RTA or other gizmos. I have to say that IK have produced something which aims to alleviate issues at a reasonable price and for that they need to be commended. Whereas trinnov certainly know how to take the proverbial 😀
I agree. I persanally have zero use for this unit. And I avoid any room correction eq. I’d rather change my speakers to find ones that fit room, do proper speaker positioning. Do proper room acoustics. Which is what I’ve done. Amphions with sub work great in hear. Only issue that was really expensive to fix was covering my rear wall with 40hz tuned bass traps from GIK acoustics.
Sonarworks is better since it isn't just limited to the Zero Latency and Linear Phase modes. It has a third mode called "Mixed" which is basically 99% Linear Phase mode but with only 14ms latency (compared to 44ms on Linear Phase mode). Much more manageable. Not to mention all the extra features like a more custumisable EQ, headphone correction, better calibration process, etc.
But linear phase also creates the ringing, as always it is about the right compromises. I have a plugin and it does not change 21 samples of latency for both, linear and natural phase. This is not a lot really, also when you track a singer or a guitarist, they listen through the headphones so this is not an issue.
I’m a music producer, not just an engineer. Which is why I prefaced my point aiming it to music producers 👌. Because we play midi and we don’t use headphones. Also all the guitarist I work with don’t track in headphones as there are often multiple of us in a room and we all feel the vibe together. They DI and play out loud as we give direction. A room will often be 1/2 producers, an instrumentalist and 1 or 2 writers etc. Your plugin solution is great by the way!
Also 21ms latency is insane 😂😂😂. But maybe thats cause I play a ton of midi programming. Remember this is 21ms added ontop of your systems latency. So if your system is giving 10ms then the total is 31ms
Interesting…seems like a fairly inexpensive product for a person like yourself..everything high end except that arc studio. I subbed..you seem very knowledgeable.
Ex-Machinas Speakers use DSP to emulate good sound but are just not good. Had a pair and the latency was not usable . Their Support will tell you to disable the DSP but then tthe speakers sound like a tin can.
That was exactly my experience although I did like the sound of them with DSP engaged the latency was unbearable. And I agree the disabled DSP didn't sound like the £9k they cost. So thats why I went with the amphion and couldn't be happier. But was also my exact point of frustration with the IK Arc introducing 42ms of latency! I think arc is a good unit for mixers and people who don't mind latency but I had to make the video to warn people who hate latency as much as me!
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Did you guy's have the gen 1 or gen 2? Because I have the gen 2's and I don't agree with either of you. On low latency mode I can play keyboard drums just fine and the sound quality is still pretty good. The only thing that is a bit of annoyance for me is that the latency switch is on the back of the speakers.
For me I was spending that large sum to not get the best sound the speaker produced. And i also was not willing to behind the speaker each time to change the mode. I’m really happy with my amphion with the subwoofers now ❤
That’s how I felt which is why I had to share. A few people seem to not be bothered by it, But just thought I’d share for those who are bothered cause it’s a nasty surprise if you wasn’t aware beforehand. 👌
There is also latency with Trinnov Nova and it is currently 30ms (which is a lot)
So generally for producers thats really tough, it'll be good old fashion acoustic treatment for me! 👌
For mixers if you can afford nova I recommend it, but if you haven't spent more than £3k on speakers then defo IK multimedia. What do you think?
@@WhoIsAlexElliott I do both mixing and tracking in my room so low latency is really important. There is also currently no way of bypassing the Trinnov completely, so you will have latency wether room correction is engages or not (and yes my monitors costs more than 3000$ 😉) I currently use Sonarworks, which I think is just OK, but you need to bypass it every time you track, the sonarworks systemwide app is very buggy and if mixing with multiple monitors then it is not great.
So it’s cheaper to buy the nova or to hire someone to do the test for you ??
@@HOTROD256969 I recommend going the route of a company like Gik acoustics first. They actually offer free consultations and guide you on how to take a room measurement yourself. + you can then send the measurement to them aswell as room pictures and they will recommend any studio repositioning and then tell you what acoustic treatment you need. Once you’ve got some basic treatment then something like this Arc studio will absolute neaten things up and be the cherry ontop.
I appreciate the transparency and honesty. Ive heard only the good things about ArC Studio but no one really mentioned any constructive criticism like you did. I think I will get it still to see for myself eventually. Thanks again!
No problem at all. Glad it helped.
In my situation, I would use this for mixing only, not producing. So, is it easy to turn it off so I can do some back-and-forth while producing/mixing?
@@frederickleblanc7300 yes that will work well
im so glad you covered the latency aspect. i would guess many producers watch your content and now have a better understanding of this product.
No problem. I just wanted to share my experience because no one else was mentioning it. And it’s. Canary surprise if your not expecting it!
Loved that latency gag where you delay the audio... And you seem to have a great attitude towards the review. Subscribed and interested to see your future content :)
Ahh the small details haha. Thankyou and glad to have you over on the channel!
Definitely worth highlighting the linear phase EQ issue with the Arc Studio! However it's my understanding that delay is part of what makes a linear phase EQ work, so surely this would be the case with any system using linear phase eq
Yes you’re correct. It would be the case with any linear phase EQ. But I guess I had thought because it was now in a hardware unit it would be reduced or less.
Great video, I would like to try the ARC Studio but think room treatment should be applied first. Good you mentioned the decay time which won’t be solved by eq correction. I think for most people good headphones would be a better solution since we can take the environment completely out of the equation. I use headphone eq correction to the Harman target with crosstalk on plannar headphones which have a good low-end and fast transients. The low end is the most difficult part to translate right and I definitely recommend a good sub for that. All in all a good speaker setup could end up being pretty expensive imo. Headphones are for me a absolute winner.
I agree. I’ve achieved great results with headphones also. Speakers become powerful when your with people and some people find the headphone mixing challenging. But I agree with you and ultimately there are strengths to both! Budget is always a key factor in these things 😅
@@WhoIsAlexElliott I totally agree that headphone mixing can be challenging specially with the amount of effects and the balance of the stereo field. I think that for most beginners the Slate VSX would be an excellent choice as far as I understand from a lot of skeptical people it seems to be pretty darn good. If I would upgrade my speaker system I would need to add a sub, room treatment and correction software which would easily end up over a thousand dollars of investment. Since the dimensions of my small room isn’t really optimal I think it would be a waste of money compared to a 300 dollar Slate VSX system. Eventually it all depends on the fact that we learn how our monitor system translates to different systems and that we get to know it. Eventually we need to learn this and stick with it 😀
@@Studio22mix True. But if you already have speakers you love, acoustic treatment is the best investment you’ll ever make & then this unit would be the icing on cake. Headphones can be a good but the end goal is always great speakers, and a great room 😍.
And learning your speakers is great. But in my experience, learning that a kick drum should sound weak in my room in order to sound strong outside because I have bass issues is a buzz kill & kill joy. I’d rather my room, just sound great 😅.
Concerning the latency, One doesn't need room correction when tracking. You could just hit the button and turn it off when tracking, then turn it on for a mix. I assume at least. I only just ordered this unit.
Yes it depends on workflow. But that is a possibility. For me personally a great mix starts with great sound selection. So hearing accurately when tracking is super Important for me. But you can for sure make it work by turning it off.
If I press the correction switch is the off mode a true bypass? as yes I can't deal with latency for recording that has to be minimised as much as possible, but well monitors sound good anyways in treated room, switching it off for recording wouldn't be a big deal and then switch on for listening purpose.
Yes the button is a true bypass 👌. So if you’re ok with that workflow then that can work. Although for me my ears will have no perspective on how my speakers are meant to sound as it will get used to one thing and then I’ll click the button and it’ll all change. I would have to learn two different sound profiles in my head which is very confusing for me and may be for others also.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Hmm, yes that's true, although I guess I would treat the recording process different from the mixing, like you could just be recording with headphones as is usually the experience for the player.. A jack for a remote foot switch bypass would have been nice. I'm interested to see what it does to eek out some more detail when listening. I do fully agree on the latency as recently we had some Dutch & Dutch speakers here a week, a most incredible sonic experience but yeah you can't use them to record yourself even in their low-latency mode they add 3ms which coupled with the rest of the system puts the attack behind pressing a key or playing a note on the guitar, it feels sluggish which throws off the timing.
Ahh yes indeed. I realised that you manually mean instrument recoding also but for me it’s when I’m producing that I mostly benefit from room correction because it can seriously effect what sounds you choose, especially kick drums which can comprise the low end of your mix of chosen wrong. That’s why I opted to just treat my room, that and reverb decay time
Is this box also adding another ad/da conversion? That’s kinda cancelling out the lynx?
Ahhh yes that’s exactly what’s happening 👌👌👌
Hey there, I just got these today and set them up - took me some time to realise the output of my Motu was overloading the Arc, which doesn't have that much headroom - even a little clipping had really bad effects - so word to the people just getting one, you may have to operate at a different output level to your speakers! Once I had it going, it works really well - my room is also luckily perfect for it, by chance. Thanks for the honesty, Alex.
Thanks for sharing and awesome your getting on well with it.
I have a purpose built mixing room with excellent treatment and was already very content with sound I was hearing (and seeing) especially the stereo imaging. However, when I added Arc it blew me away, it corrected two issues one low, one high that until that point hadn't really bothered me but the bigger surprise was that in natural mode the imaging was even better! I think the issue that you are getting is to do with your room. I think ARC or any other form of room correction should be thought of as a final 'tweaker' not a 'fixer', that's the job of acoustic treatment. 😎
So just to re clarify the issue I was having is that my speakers sounded better with it off versus the Natural mode. And it did sound better with it on in Linear mode but the latency was too much. There was no noticeable difference in my stereo imaging but my speakers and room were pretty well set up.
It’s not an issue with my room, but if it is an issue with my room then it just further proves the point of the video that this unit cannot correct significant room issues, and works better in a room with acoustic treatment like yours.
I’m truly glad you found a solution that works for you. Also my main issue is the latency not the idea of the unit.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Sorry for the late reply. I think this unit is really targeting the home studio / budget studio owners. Most users of that kind of equipment have rather cheap audio interfaces (mostly on USB 2.0) that introduce a LOT of latency anyway. The best advise I could give for that kind of users is to spend a little more on their audio interface to reduce latency (for instance: the MOTU M series are not very expensive at all, but have a relatively really low latency). If you then add the ARC system to that complete chain they will have about the same (and probably much lower) latency as with the cheaper audio interface models without the correction unit at all. And it will give you also the benefit of a much higher audio quality.
But what I really wonder about is if that latency is also present if the ARC unit is doing no correction at all. If that is the case, you could turn off the unit (after setting up the instrument sound palette to your liking) for those moments that the really tight timing is important. After that you can playback with correction on for mixing purposes. But I honestly think most of the users with cheaper equipment (especially cheap audio units) are already used to a fair amount of latency anyway, and correct the misaligned timings in their DAW software.
@@jclosed2516just to clarify the arc latency is fixed at 414-42ms of latency. It’s up to the individual if this tolerable of course. If your doing any music to visual this is a headache ofcourse as well as tracking guitars via d.I whiles playing out of the speakers etc. the musicians I was recording couldn’t stand it.
@@jclosed2516I agree with you regarding their target audience though. But I had to make the video so people who are more professional can understand the potential limitations. There definitely was an assumption that with it being a hardware box the latency would be less.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Fair enough. The latency is indeed rather high in this case. As a keyboard player that often use MIDI I can relate to latency being a pain in the behind. That's the reason I suggested to turn off the unit while timing is more important than room correction. That's why I wanted to know if that latency is also present if the unit is switched off. If there is no (or very little) latency, I think the setup could be workable for me.
Very helpful. I was about to pull the trigger on this, but just can’t deal with latency when I’m playing.
You can put it in low latency mode but doesn’t sound as good for me
Hi, I am a little late on this, but just wanted to add this: The latency is only a problem with this new fancy hardware unit. But you can still use the ARC software in the master channel of your DAW. It has been around like that for years. No latency issue then, because it will be corrected in the DAW.
Fantastic!
I personally preferred the Natural mode over the Linear mode, due to the pre-ringing in the low end. I find it to be extremely good. I am only using it in a B room setup, as it is only 2 channels.
Glad it worked out for you.
I would say even if you are a producer but you mix 5% of the time, if you notice no difference when it is bypassed, it's still worth it just to check for major issues before sending your stuff to a mixer. Or to engage when you are occasionally mixing. It's VERY inexpensivve.
That’s a great use case that can for sure work for some people!
What would be the benefit for having it on for producing ?
When producing it’s all about sound selection. A great mix starts off with great instrument selection/sound choice. So hearing accurate during the production stage is key. There have been many times I’ve received stems to mix and been asked to make it sound like something else but the sound selection was wrong. I can instantly tell the person who produced it wasn’t hearing properly in their room. Especially when it came to kick/BASS relationship.
Thanks for this info. Very helpful as I’m purchasing ARC studio 4 because I work in a less than ideal home studio.
Question: is the latency present if you are using the dedicated hardware or just with the VST?
Yes it’s present with the hardware. That most exciting thing for me was hoping the latency would not be present because its hardware but it’s still there and is 42ms (& 1.4ms in natural mode). So just wanted to let people know who have same struggle as me with latency.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott gotcha. Was hoping for less latency as I track, edit, and mix for live and commercial.
@@revp01 had same hopes
YES! This is a great point that people need to be aware of with this kind of software, it is NOT a substitute for room treatment.. It alters the EQ curve but not the reverb time. If you have a resonance at 50hz that takes a second to decay then no EQ is going to fix that, only lots of very thick absorption. I have exactly that issue in my room and it has required a LOT of absorption!
💯 % 🙌🙌🙌
What if you switch between natural and linear mode as you playing an instrument and tracking?
that can work, its not for me as my speaker sound will constantly be changing throughout the day as I switch and I need to trust them and know them 100%. But I'm super sensitive to this stuff as most folks wont be as bothered as me.
One question. To your experience, do you think it's indispensable to jave room correction when Mixing? Or is it just a matter of learning monitors? I just corrected my speakers but just sounds to me like theres a lack of Bass. Help please 😢
I think that room acoustic treatment is what’s indispensable. In particular bass trapping. Otherwise you’ll have a horrible time trying to mix and trusting your speakers, but if you can’t get that then things like arc are good. Ideally you want arc and rockwool treatment. In regards to the lack of low end that is the toughest pill to swallow when working in well treated rooms, balanced speakers will appear to have less bass but that’s because we are used to the sound of a room exciting bass frequencies, as well as most leisure speakers being tuned to have enhanced bass. But if your really serious about mixing then I’d say embrace the adjustment, eventually your ears will recalibrate and become attuned to realise that mid range and lower midrange is where “the men are separated from the boys” in terms of how good a speaker is. And by balancing your mids your mix is 80% there. So rather than thinking you have less bass appreciate that you’re now hearing more mid information (assuming your speakers are now measuring flatter)
Listen to all your favourite records again and relearn them. And yes learning speakers in your room is key. For example if I took my speakers to another room I’d still have an initial struggle cause they would sound completely different.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Thank you man! I read all your comment. It really really helped me a lot🙏
@@dynoprod. no problem bro. Glad it helped
wow. Took only this video to sub to yr channel. I like honest content. The way you explained everything was just excellet! thank you
Thanks so much. This goes much further than you think. Sometimes I feel like I’m wasting my time with UA-cam but comments like this help ❤
Weird that you had some resolution issues with your ARC box. I have not noticed anything fishy in the ultra highs at all. Maybe yours is not functioning correctly. I DID notice a little pre ringing in linier phase mode, and actually preferred the "Natural" phase mode with the ARC set for "Broad". It seemed natural and had no artifacts. As for latency, yeah the linier mode is about 22MS at 96K, but the "Natural mode is less than 1Ms. Not a deal breaker for me but I get it.
So there was no problem with the unit. I was just hearing the phase issues being introduced by the EQ correction and the high end in my monitors sounded much better without the units correction when having natural phase mode. 👌
It could to know latency is less at 96k but most people don’t use 96k and it is 42ms at 44.1 unfortunately. I think it works for some people. But a few people like myself were expecting less latency because it’s a hardware box.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott I used Arc 3 for a couple of years and have ARC 4 in line with my Adams, but I've since upgraded to PMC and they have corrective EQ that is pretty good. I'm curious now about how they sound with the PMC's. Maybe I'll notice the phase stuff in the high end you are talking about. Gonna try it. ARC definitely improved my mixes through the smaller 2 way Adams though. Good review.
@@kniferideaudioif you have PMC with the built in EQ option your absolutely sorted. No need for ARC. Arc didn’t do any time/phase alignment stuff. It’s purely corrective EQ. So between REW EQ measurements and your PMC WQ you have the best possible set up already. No point adding another stage of corrective EQ with the arc, it’ll likely just introduce unwanted phase issues if you have both inbuilt Eq and Arc at same time.
@@kniferideaudiocongratulations on a fantastic speaker purchase.
I'm intending to use ARC4 software only (no rig) for live VST playing (no DAW though), does the ARC4 software add much latency besides sound interface¿? Thanks
I believe it will still add a noticeable latency in the linear phase mode, so may be worth trying the non linear phase mode.
I recommend building some bass tubes you can move around easy. They actually work better than the panels. They do take up more room.
Same advice I gave to others to use room acoustics. If you look carefully my room is actually covered in treatment. That entire rear wall is tuned 40hz bass traps also ❤
Great video Alex! my home studio is 2.1. (JBL 305's and 310 Sub). I am seeking a hardware solution. Will this hardware unit integrate to a 2.1 system? if not, would you recommend a h/w unit that would? Keep up the great videos! Cheers!
Assuming your Satellite monitors are plugged into the subwoofer and the subwoofer has a stereo output, then yes it would integrate well.
You can come out of your audio interface into the arc, & then the IK arc studio output would be able to plug into the subwoofer, and then output of subwoofer into the Satellites (stereo speakers).
When taking the room measurement the arc would just measure your system as one integrated system. Whatever it hears is what it will measure (in your case your subwoofer in combination with your satellites).
On separate note I would just experiment a lot with speaker positioning before fine tuning with the IK arc studio. If I was in your position I would measure with the arc and then move the subwoofer around and check which position is improving the sound the most, once I had sub in best position I would then apply the correction. 👌. This is because the position of your subwoofer in your room will have the best impact on low end response.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Thank you sir!
Great Video! Why did you opt to try this out and not Sonarworks?
I was really curious about having the correction built into the hardware itself, set and forget kind of vibe.
Back when I tried sonar works it didn’t have the system wide sound option yet & in the past but felt like it was causing phasing issues and I was loosing my transients. Do you have much experience with Sonar-works. How do you find it?
Oh and Thankyou by the way.
I was also hoping because it’s hardware it wouldn’t add latency
So, did you measure latency in linear phase mode, so that we can decide for ourselves if it's acceptable?
It’s 42ms. So imagine you already have 10-12ms from your computer, now Add another 42ms ontop of that giving you 52-54ms latency
Thanks@@WhoIsAlexElliott
Great video, thank you
no problem at all
Hey my first time watching your channel I just subscribed. What about if you turn it off when you’re making beats?
If you have the patience then go for it. But for me that defeats the purpose. Imagine making a beat with it turned off. Then turning it on to realise the kick / 808 you chose was trash and has way less bass in it that you thought but your room was lying to you … 🙈. Or you chose a synth that was warmer sounding only to realise your room had a dip at 5k and they synth is actually harsher than you thought etc …
And Thankyou for the sub also. Hopefully I can continue to provide useful content for you all
forgive me if ive got this wrong but if your tracking with headphones on you dont want the unit on, and why are people connecting it from the interface and not from the speaker out of a monitor station that way your headphone mix out to the drummer is completely out of the signal path
@@deesoundrecordingstudio9739 you do connect it from the speaker out. But if your playing in the room DI with the guitar sound coming out the speakers like lots of people love to do then it’s an issue & Especially if your a Producer working alone playing hardware synths out the speakers to get the vibe. Then All your stuff will have an extra 42ms latency added on above the latency of your interface. But if your ok to only and always track in headphones then you can get around the latency. And if your ok to play all your midi in only using headphones then you can escape the latency. I’m not ok to do this so just wanted to give like minded individuals a heads up
How much latency do we talk about?
42ms from the unit. And then add your interface latency / DAW buffer size latency ontop of that.
But in normal mode the latency isn’t noticeable but it also doesn’t sound as good as linear
Great video. I don’t use mine personally until I get to the mixing stage; same as wouldn’t use any heavy bus processing when recording/programming/producing, just because at that stage you are focused on getting the recording and the notes in with zero or as little latency as possible.
That’s a good work around. And if your room is already half decent it works well. But sound selection is so important that hearing accurately can effect what bass and kick samples you choose etc. so would be great for them to get the latency down for the next release so we can create and mix through it. That would be amazing!
What value does ARC Studio offer if I already own the iLoud MTM with a measurement microphone?
None. Unless you maybe had a second set of monitors you could use it for that. But if you got MTM you’re good!
thanks, in amazon Spain they sell arc studio for 199€ amazing price
@@WhoIsAlexElliott
Great video thank you 🙏🏽💛
No problem.
I appreciate your honesty brother
❤️👌
Great video! Going to get the Arc Studio, but for Hi-FI use in a dodgy (arch ceiling) room. The ARC sits nicely between the preamp and power amp and a pair of Focal Sopra 2s :) Subscribed!
that is exactly the perfect use case for this unit! I don't have my hifi set up yet, as studio monitors are so expensive as it is. But I cant wait to have my own hifi room
how much latency? i thinks its reported at around 1.4 milliseconds
The IK arc studio in linear phase mode adds 42ms of latency.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott that s like a light year, LMAO
Yeah. That’s why I thought it important for people to know at least before making a Decision.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Anyway, for tracking we don t need this... For playing back, the latency won t matter at all....Anyway, I prefer to treat a room, even if not that well, and injecting eq curves on a speaker, or having a speaker sounding like another speaker......LoL, this last one says it all :)
Yeah I opted for manual route of Gik acoustics room treatment also. I agree about the eq part, I didn’t want to get into those details int he video but unless done properly like trinnov then it messes with phase alignment which affects perception of dynamics, in short transients are less punchy and snappy. And for music producers who program then it would matter for tracking as great production starts with great sound selection, so it would be a case of producing with this turned on!
Appreciate very much your honesty about the unit 👍🏼
No problem at all. Hopefully there’s some other video that are also helpful
Interesting i was looking at this for my ( I use VSX and sonarworks for music production and i love them so much i wanted to try something similar in my house audio.) This is slightly cheaper then the home audio most popular product minidsp. latency is not an issue for this purpose as is just listening. i have 5 rooms all connected to the the same digital input) getting that out of sync very much could be as issue. I was only planning on using it in 2 of those rooms so now i have to consider getting 5 or rethink my whole situation.
Yeah i decided to go with mini-dsp. It's only $200 more uses Dirac which only results in 8ms delay and Dirac seems to have to significantly more advanced features in room correction beyond just EQ.
Glad you find a helpful solution and that the video flagged the issue for you! 🙌
Amazing bass trapping in there dude. you problably do and listen to bass heavy music with low rumble sub for sure
@@MuzdokOfficial thanks a lot. I worked really hard on it & yes I recently got the Amphion flexbass25 also 😅👌
@@WhoIsAlexElliott DIY?🤩
No GIK acoustics. But built it up over the years. Getting an extra panel each time I got paid and then measuring each time so I really saw the accumulative differences. Such an eye opening journey.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott I got GIK also in 2018. Ones ff the best commercial ones out there! Cheers!
Thanks for this honest review. Subscribed.
Thankyou. And amazing. Glad to have you 🙌
I think it's a great unit (not only for the price). I went the acoustic treatment route as much as I could and spent as much for the treatment itself as for my monitors (Barefoot Footprints 01 at the moment). I used Sonarworks in the last couple years and while I enjoyed the accuracy and flexibility of that software I was always looking for a way to get this out of the box because of the price you pay for systemwide use or in a plugin in form of latency and CPU load. The linear mode in this unit sounds great but clearly introduces some latency and when I record or produce I rather turn it off or use it in natural mode - which is not as bad as throwing a bitcrusher on my mixbus :)
Thanks for sharing your experience with this unit. I didn’t get along with Sonarworks either but I’m really Glad this works well for you.
For myself I personally couldn’t Deal with the normal Mode but Im very sensitive to Eq’s introducing phase issues.
Naturally the “normal mode” cannot avoid phase issues being introduced, but I agree the Linear mode does sound great it’s just that darn latency for me! 😅
I’ll do a review on my speakers soon but the main thing I loved about them & made me spend the £7k on them was the transient articulation and the high end, so imagine my disappointment when the normal mode was giving me more low end but ruining the thing that made me love & buy my speakers. Kind of defeats the purpose of adding this unit into my set up!
But it sounded great in Linear mode.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Or maybe restrict the treatment only to lower mids and mids. You can tell with HP and LP filters what frequencies will it apply the correction to.
@@linstate007you’ll still get a ton of phase and time domain issues. So it’s better to let it fix everything or nothing
Great video. I completely agree
👌
thank you for your review.
No problem glad it helped.
Great info. Latency is important to me as a producer. Do you think it’s possible to correct the latency? Something IK could do?
If you’re ok to use the natural phase mode then the latency is much lower but it doesn’t sound as good as the linear phase mode that has the increased latency. Best thing I’d say is try to get your hands on one (buy and return) and test it out in your set up & just make sure wherever you get it from offers a return policy
Great review.
Glad you enjoyed it
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
No problem at all!
Great video. Do more
Thankyou. This encouragement helps me keep going. Along as I know it’s helpful for people I’ll keep doing it!
I would dump their hardware, use REW and a calibration mic, run it through your audio interface, then use the IK software to apply the EQ Curves. Only issue with Nova Trinnov setups are that they don't fix anything in reality. They squeeze the sound out at various frequencies to all the speakers and essentially are modifying your sound. i don't think any system that modifies your sound in software is a good solution. Spending more on room treatment would be the best approach (and in your home, you can only do so much anyway). In the end, if you are talented, have a good ear, can use the hardware/software at your disposable, then that is all you need. Majority of the top selling music has been produced in small bedrooms in recent times not in flashy studios running Trinnov RTA or other gizmos. I have to say that IK have produced something which aims to alleviate issues at a reasonable price and for that they need to be commended. Whereas trinnov certainly know how to take the proverbial 😀
I agree. I persanally have zero use for this unit. And I avoid any room correction eq. I’d rather change my speakers to find ones that fit room, do proper speaker positioning. Do proper room acoustics. Which is what I’ve done. Amphions with sub work great in hear. Only issue that was really expensive to fix was covering my rear wall with 40hz tuned bass traps from GIK acoustics.
you should do a whole series of the hidden truth.
Awsome idea let me know somethings you'd want me to breakdown
Sonarworks is better since it isn't just limited to the Zero Latency and Linear Phase modes. It has a third mode called "Mixed" which is basically 99% Linear Phase mode but with only 14ms latency (compared to 44ms on Linear Phase mode). Much more manageable.
Not to mention all the extra features like a more custumisable EQ, headphone correction, better calibration process, etc.
That’s sounds quite solid!
Appreciate the truth brother always nice work
No problem at all. Also name by the way 🙌😅
But linear phase also creates the ringing, as always it is about the right compromises. I have a plugin and it does not change 21 samples of latency for both, linear and natural phase. This is not a lot really, also when you track a singer or a guitarist, they listen through the headphones so this is not an issue.
I’m a music producer, not just an engineer. Which is why I prefaced my point aiming it to music producers 👌. Because we play midi and we don’t use headphones. Also all the guitarist I work with don’t track in headphones as there are often multiple of us in a room and we all feel the vibe together. They DI and play out loud as we give direction. A room will often be 1/2 producers, an instrumentalist and 1 or 2 writers etc.
Your plugin solution is great by the way!
Also 21ms latency is insane 😂😂😂. But maybe thats cause I play a ton of midi programming. Remember this is 21ms added ontop of your systems latency. So if your system is giving 10ms then the total is 31ms
I like honest content.
Will do my best to always give that!
I guess natural is enough to track and general production tasks and linear is when you nail the final mix.
Shame there is a natural button on the unit. Would have made the work flow smoother
Thanks!
No problem!
I fink dis would be jolly good for my first schtudio innit
Go for it. It still sounds great and does a good job. The latency is just a big turn off for me.
Interesting…seems like a fairly inexpensive product for a person like yourself..everything high end except that arc studio. I subbed..you seem very knowledgeable.
Glad to have you as a sub. I think your right also, I would need something like trinnov but for people with lower end gear this can make more sense
Good review but have to say that, as a producer, I simply use it when mixing :)
Glad it works for you and Thankyou. Just wanted to share as no one is talking about that part 👌
The latency is about 41MS according to other reliable reviews.
👌👌👌
Ex-Machinas Speakers use DSP to emulate good sound but are just not good. Had a pair and the latency was not usable . Their Support will tell you to disable the DSP but then tthe speakers sound like a tin can.
That was exactly my experience although I did like the sound of them with DSP engaged the latency was unbearable. And I agree the disabled DSP didn't sound like the £9k they cost. So thats why I went with the amphion and couldn't be happier. But was also my exact point of frustration with the IK Arc introducing 42ms of latency! I think arc is a good unit for mixers and people who don't mind latency but I had to make the video to warn people who hate latency as much as me!
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Did you guy's have the gen 1 or gen 2? Because I have the gen 2's and I don't agree with either of you. On low latency mode I can play keyboard drums just fine and the sound quality is still pretty good. The only thing that is a bit of annoyance for me is that the latency switch is on the back of the speakers.
@@davidallanmusicglad it works for you. Not everyone is as sensitive to these things 👌.
For me I was spending that large sum to not get the best sound the speaker produced. And i also was not willing to behind the speaker each time to change the mode. I’m really happy with my amphion with the subwoofers now ❤
@@WhoIsAlexElliott Did you own the Gen 1's or Gen 2s?
Thanks.
No problem
45ms is just TOO MUCH!
That’s how I felt which is why I had to share. A few people seem to not be bothered by it, But just thought I’d share for those who are bothered cause it’s a nasty surprise if you wasn’t aware beforehand. 👌