If she wants Christianity to be a bulwark against attacks on Enlightenment values, that's going to rule out many (most?) varieties of Christianity, so she's going to need to spell out exactly which type of Christianity carries out this task.
Good point. The more fundamentalist versions of Christianity are mostly anti enlightenment. And the more liberal churches that do embrace the enlightenment usually get labeled as "woke" by conservatives. Quite a tension 🤔
She’s discovered the usefulness of religion as a political tool. In most cases, people utilise that knowledge to abandon theism. It seems she’s not the intellectual the new atheists believed she was.
@@pabloandres6179Meanwhile, people still continue to form the most fantastic beliefs about supernatural events based on hearsay and theological literature culminating in a preferred chosen religion. Delusion is a wonderful thing, it allows you to believe whatever your chosen narrative is but demonstrably, you already know this. *"God"* 😂😂😂
What even is "Western Civilization"? I've never seen a coherent definition of this, unless you mean white conservatism. You see this with the phrase "Judeo Christian", a phrase which whenever I hear it, tells me the speaker is historically illiterate. Jews were persecuted by Christians for most of history, and every non conservative Jew that I know despises the term. If you're going to link the two religions together as one theology, it would make just as much sense, if not more so, to refer to "Abrahamic values". But of course, everyone who uses the phrase "Judeo Christian" wants to specifically exclude the third religion that falls under the "Abrahamic" umbrella, even though if you discuss theological concepts such as the afterlife and whether every human is obligated to hold the correct belief about God, the term "Christo Islamic" is a lot more reality based than "Judeo Christian". Back to "Western Civilization". The "West" is the birthplace of Adam Smith and Karl Marx. Countless works of art and literature from conflicting genres have been produced in Europe and America.
Basically her conversion is based more on the motivations of Christian Nationalists than it does any sense of spiritual growth. Weird reasoning from someone that has taken a stand against the dogmatism of religious thinking.
I just converted to Zorgism, because i like its explanation about the meaning of life and it makes me feel good to believe in something (just don't ask me to demonstrate if its actually true 😮) Don't forget to buy my book about my conversion (i really need more Bitcoin)
I wonder if Ayaan came out of a strong religious belief system and kind of missed it. So she has plunged back in, but to a different religious belief system. A great commentary BTW.
I really like your tone and presentation style. It’s calm, clear, and precise, and the tone of your voice helps make the content feel kind and unharsh (as I’m sure it was intended to be). Came here from Rationality Rules and was pleasantly surprised. Thanks :)
This is the most thought out delve into this "conversion" that I have seen, and it is a bit annoying how many takes I have seen on this. Thanks for making yours worth my time.
The phenomenon of political conversion is nothing new. It seems to have been quite common especially in the late 19th/early 20th century, especially in Britain, and especially rightwing leaning to Roman Catholic (with a disproportionate number being gay/bisexual white men). I would argue that it is a symptom of the decline of religion, because it trivializes religion to the level of politics.
Inane is the word. Thank you for this thoughtful analysis! Clearly Atheism is not a Doctrine or an Ideology, Atheism does not necessitate Nihilism, it is simply not being convinced by Theistic arguments.
Remember when Antony Flew, one of the most if not the most influential atheist philosopher of the 20th century, declared he could no longer subscribe to a wholly naturalistic view of creation following his observations of the Human Genone Project? Remember Richard Dawkins reaction? All he did was call him a senile old man. A genuine intellect would have sought Flew out to ask why the change in thought. A follower of an ideology, again, declared Flew to be a senile old man. And so here is Ali facing the same derision from the faithful of the ideology she left.
Atheism is am ideology. You live as if God doesn't exist so it's a negation of God. You can call it all you want but but Philippians 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The question is, if Jesus was the truth, would you follow it?
@@Masowe. No, not believing in claims by Theists such as yourself is NOT an ideology, no matter how many ignorant petulant bullshit claims you make. You CLAIM there is a God but have exactly ZERO justified evidence to support your claim. I don't consider the Bible to have any Authority so you lose again in your witless attempt to define people according to your bias rather than facts. You are a fool.
Like many lifelong atheists I'd never heard about her before this "conversion". I see this essay as her job application to replace Candy Onions on the Daily Whine, if Benny-boy Shabibo fires her for disagreeing with him about genocide. She could function not only as their token black woman, but also as their ex-Muslim, ex-atheist, and is a US immigrant to boot, while still being busy calling for white supremacy and patriarchy, all under the guise of anti-wokeness, whatever that's supposed to be.
I'd say that would count as prophecy if I believed in that stuff, and in a few months time I suspect you're going to feel a mixture of smugness and sadness as we find out you were right.
Thank you for the discussion. There are fundamental differences between Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Andrew Tate, namely decency and thoughtfulness. I do not need to agree with her conversion for her to have my respect.
This "conversion" is so questionable that I'm withholding respect for this take. Is her next move a thoughtful analysis of her position (because her article was not that)? Or as I suspect will it be a contract with something like the Daily Wire, PragerU or the Heritage Foundation? Because this whole thing stinks of grift to me. We'll see I guess.
I'm not sure she's wrong. The more I learn of Islam, particularly with regard to how they treat women, the less I care for it. But, as a theist myself, I'm not going to complain about people believing in deity. Personally, I think The Urantia Book is the way to go, as the dogma in the Bible, at times, is scarcely any different from the male patriarchy of Islam. But then, being able to understand The Urantia Book requires higher level education, which not everybody has.
She might be right. Islam is certainly a threat to freedom of thought. However, Christianity seems to tolerate freedom over encouraging it. Seems like she’s just joining the strongest tribe in order to fight the things she fears. The enemy of my enemy.
@@Sirrus-Adamalthough I'm with you on the fact she's not wrong I'm an atheist going to Islam I think you do indeed need a cult to fight a cult. You need a group of like minded people who believe in something.
@@NativeVsColonial - The Urantia Book is a divine epochal revelation written by a commission of celestial personalities, sharing their areas of expertise about the cosmos. It's not a "religious" book per se, although it does contain a lot of information about the deities. It does a nice job of blending science and religion and advocates for both coexisting peacefully. It opens thusly: 0:0.1 (1.1) IN THE MINDS of the mortals of Urantia - that being the name of your world - there exists great confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity. Human beings are still more confused and uncertain about the relationships of the divine personalities designated by these numerous appellations. Because of this conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion, I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia. www.urantiabook .org/000-Foreword/#ubf-paperTitle Part IV contains the complete life and teachings of Jesus, our Paradise Creator Son, Michael of Nebadon. It was written by midwayers, who were there then, and are still around today. No, Jesus was not born of a virgin, Mary was a maiden, meaning she'd never given birth before. She and Joseph were already married when Joseph got her pregnant with Jesus. And, according to them, he was born at noon, August 21, 7 BC. They got oddly specific about lots of dates, as well as other details. The key point of the book for me, is the information about Thought Adjusters. We all have one, and they are a direct line to our Divine Father-friend. It shares our entire lives with us, and is there to offer us suggestions on how we can improve our behavior. It's 2100 pages of dense material, so obviously too long to adequately summarize here. [Remove the spaces from the link to activate it and read the book for yourself.]
you just confirmed that you atheism is just a stance, a "i feel more intelligent saying i am atheist" , Atheism mean nothing since is just an "against" stance... You have to call yourself a reductionist materialist. At the end you want to be an atheist because it looks more "cool" forgetting that you also need a philosophical idea ...
She's in a perpetual state of becoming a right winger. Grifterish. She did this decades ago. Her great enlightenment: becoming a right winger. I don't have much respect for the sweaty atheists, mentioned, that embraced her. Very worked up post 2001 anti Muslim rhetoric. That's what resonates here. These guys are/were not very eloquent on the matters. I think their posing resonates more with American culture than with more secularized Europe.
Look, she is very smart and an opportunist. She knows how to manifest herself into the world again and again to be considered important. Thats all she wants.
Ali has been a grifter since seeking asylum in the Netherlands. She was never a female member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Africa, nor forced to marry her ex-husband (he paid her a visit in the Netherland after she was granted asylum). She has pandered to Christians for 2 decades encouraging Christian Missionaries to go to Muslim Countries. I am shocked Ali didn't politically convert years ago.
This lady lied about her name, age and claimed to have fled war zone Somalia when she was living in upper-middle class comfort in Kenya … among other lies … She was found to have not legitimately received her Dutch citizenship … all revealed in the TV programme Zambla …
She doesn't understand how grifting works apparently. You aren't supposed to admit that you are doing a grift. The fact that she can just blatantly admit that she is a christian for purely political reasons and not see any problem with it is baffling.
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. A contract with PragerU, the Daily Wire, the Heritage Foundation or similar entity. She either has one lined up or is hoping for one. The only rational explanation for this ridiculous essay. Because deeply held belief (by her own admission) does not play a part.
Also, she said she believes in a higher power, which first makes her a deist. She hasn't mentioned an intervening higher power, which would then make her a theist. Honestly, she will need to defend these points at some point (as long as she's a public figure) or do some very awkward backtracking
Atheist can't recover from this blow.😅😅😅. Ayaan God bless for this gift to atheist. Atheism has left the west in a state of confusion. They are having debates on what is a woman can you believe this?
I do not think that some objective meaning is necessary for people to have meaningful lives, but even if it is, as a cosmopsychist and an axiarchist I think that nature (or the universe) might have some purpose for us.
Let me be fair but BLUNT, Ayaan Hirsi Ali's belief in God and how she goes about worshipping is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. And if you think you are being a good Christian you are NOT!! Mathew ch. 7, vs. 1 thru 5, "judge NOT lest you be judged" and ends with "thou hypocrite"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn’t always that way, although the ‘new atheists’ were pretty much hard liners from the beginning. I wasn’t surprised to see Dawkins saying some pretty uneducated things about gender recently. It’s not their atheism, it’s their inability to accept different views that makes them feel at home with the far right.
@@TMMx if I just quote Islamic scriptures, is that Islamophobic? Take this for example. I could cite hundreds. Sahih al-Bukhari 2925 Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews until some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O `Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so k.ill him.'"
@@diaryofnricom163 In and of itself, no. It would depend on the motivation. If you're scared of Muslims and you want to make Muslims look scary to others, and you find passages in their scriptures that you think will effectively accomplish that, then in that case it would be Islamophobic.
@@TMMx Muslims are humans like you and me. Horrendous ideology of Islam needs to be exposed as most muslims either ignore horrible parts for convenience or just cherry pick good parts or try to justify the indefensible. Same goes for all religions but since last 50 years, it is beyond doubt as to which religion is most toxic.
So her basic argument is that atheism is insufficiently bigoted for her tastes. Good to know. Frankly I find this outcome wholly unsurprising, she has long been courting the hatemongering Right.
She has been publishing on the same right-wing site for a while now. I would not be surprised that she was pushed, kind of like Jordan Peterson, into milking the Christian crowd.
I may be biased, but it seems to me that Woods has done some very good work attacking Islam. When it comes to his attacks on atheism, then, yeah, he's a clown.
I do see plenty of people that claim to be Christians but don't seem to believe it but in a mostly Christian society see the advantages of the membership.
Atheism is not a "doctrine" as Ayaan states....that is why there is no binding agent built into the concept. Not believing in a God or Gods is all it is. People wander off in all directions beyond that one point of view. I imagine she found it incredibly frustrating to fight against Islam from this perspective. She'd have people accusing her of Islamophobia or some such nonsense. Worse, if you disagree with "woke" concepts then you'd have your own turn against you in many cases.
Agnosticism I understand: "Hey, I don't know how all this got here. All I know is that it's here now." No faith required. But atheism requires a very level of faith. And arrogance.
I strongly believe Ayan has made a good choice. She did mention it's more logical to believe in the existence of a “Transcendent Power” (God) than the theology of atheism. She has made her choice, and that, a good choice. I advise you to open your mind to reason and watch more of her interviews about her new position. There is no future for atheism, either it continues to be tolerated under Christian watch or gets crushed under Islam. The theology of atheism is far from the truth. I am proud to be a Christian, follower of Jesus Christ. Life is not truly beautiful and has no meaning outside of Him.
Correct. Ali is merely signaling her political alignment. If there's any substance to her original post, it's that. Her purported theism is an unconvincing afterthought.
Emerson, did you research her videos of her talking to her therapist ? Ayann explicitly states that the Therapist put it to her that she was "Spiritually Bankrupt ."Ayann then described the void within her and her abuse of alcohol. She said she nows go to Church attempting to learn more about Christianity.ua-cam.com/video/L0d81NWSo68/v-deo.html
Edit: I see you pointed out her main flaw in reasoning at 9:30. I agree...its very difficult to take seriously someone who claims they derive meaning from an entity whose existence has been far from proven. I struggle to see how that would apply to more ancient gods like Zeus or Thor. If you chose to believe in them just because you liked their moral principles, wouldn't that belief effectively be quite hollow? How could you take your own beliefs seriously? And isn't the fakeness of that whole belief system a big reason why we are seeing a thinning out in religious belief in general? Your belief in God ought to be based on something, and if its not, then I don't see how you are defending against Islam or whatever else with a fairy tale that basically has the seriousness of the tooth fairy
Ali is no more a political convert to Christianity as she was to Atheism before that, in-fact less so. She didn't convert cuz of protect the west, she converted cuz of the detrimental effects of Atheism to her state of mind and life. She always was already doing the bullwark against Islam stuff before that.
Maybe a minor point, but I find it interesting that she names Russia as one of the authoritarian threats against which Christianity might provide a bulwark, when Russia has been making an almost identical argument in the other direction: it claims that its alleged championing of traditional Christianity makes Russia one of the world's primary bulwarks against Western "wokeness". From what I've seen, most political converts seem to side with Russia on that point, and often on other points as well.
I am Muslim women from Africa and we live together with Christians in harmony even with our differences but am quite sure she not atheist in the 1st place we know in Africa there are superstitions w/c celebrated yearly... you can criticize religion with evidence i agree with thatbut pretending to be something wich you're not...is shame
we are not mold, we can be spiritual and altruistic without believing in past banalities. Why then believe in a banal religion like the Abrahamic one which has only caused damage? So as long as he's not Buddhist? The reality is that we are satisfied with simple answers.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the philosophers as false, and by the rulers as useful." (Seneca the Younger) "All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." (Lucretius)
I think she has become a Christian in her intimacy, but she is smart enough to sustein the only argument possible of eventually convincing atheists to at least open up to the realization that the "decency" of western civilization comes, at least to some extent, with Christianity.
Jesus actually has a secret weapon: The Spirit of Truth, that can testify to the individual about what is true and what isn't without overbearing logical arguments. Religion is largely emotional, which atheism is not. And emotions are exciting. Obviously I can't claim Ayaan had any awareness of the Spirit of Truth, but upon exposure to Jesus' message of believers becoming like the Father, which is completely absent from Islam, would be a good, attractive thing.
The Spirit of Truth failed to reveal even basic Christology to Christians for several centuries, and never got around to revealing anything as useful as, say, the germ theory of disease. The claim given in John 16:13 appears to be a complete falsehood. Useful knowledge is worked out by men, painfully and over centuries.
@@nevbarnes1034 - I think we have a disconnect. The Spirit of Truth has to do with spiritual truths, not material ones. And most people have not trained their minds to go into the stillness in order to be receptive to it, so no, it's not going to give us unearned knowledge. And by all means, knowledge gained from experience is the basis upon which we all operate. Scientific proofs that confirm that knowledge are nice, but not the main source of information. People who die from eating poisonous plants save those who come after who learn to avoid them. There was a time when plates were porous and if you mixed milk based food with meat products, they didn't play well, so we got kosher laws. The fact that plates are no longer porous should mean keeping kosher is no longer necessary, but many of us are very familiar with that song from Fiddler on the Roof: Tradition, Tradition! Anyhow, Ayaan making that move is interesting, hence this conversation. Realizing a truth can be emotional. But I suspect most religious people are more in it for the safety of group dynamics. Survival improves when you have friends.
I don't see a single green thing in your video, Mr. Green. Nor do I see any objects obviously originating from Emerson, GA. And you expect me to take your Big Time Philosophy Man analysis seriously? For shame.
Wokeness is being aware of social injustice. But conservatism is based on conserving traditional hierarchies which they convince themselves are the natural order, so righting injustice feels like injustice to them. @@myself2noone
She did a great job attacking Islam and now she seeks comfort in the imaginary world of Christianity. I wish her well. She's free to go wherever she wants to go but it doesn't change the truth of what she discovered and wrote in her books.
This definitely needed to be said. Glad you highlighted some of the Christian voices expressing skepticism re her “conversion.” Personally, I don’t care if people call themselves Christians for social reasons, even if they don’t buy the metaphysics. I sometimes think of myself that way (although it has nothing to do with owning the libs in my case). But I don’t think the anti-atheist apologetics crowd should be taking a victory lap here.
Islam doesn't force anyone to do what he/she doesn't like. It was due to unlearned parents who forced her married. May due to family poor live or friend family. Read the Quran with understanding, and then you come out with solutions.
islam doesn't force anyone? the whole history of Islam is filled with death and destruction- responsible for over 200M deaths, and still counting if you count the attacks in nigeria against christians. your quran speaks of beheading anyone who is deemed none-muslim. most of the middle eastern Muslims where christians, and other groups who underwent forced conversations: convert or die. that is islam
For some reason her position reminds me of that of Tom Holland. But to embrace Christianity as a cultural force rather than “a personal relationship with the living Christ” seems odd. Then again Christianity is a broad church - the Christianity of Peter Rollins, Paul Tillich or John Caputo is a long way from traditional Christianity. I love your approach btw!
Hey - loved this analysis. For me, her second argument can be broken down like this: Life without spiritual belief is unbearable (for her and possibly everyone); In order for life to be bearable, she (people) need spiritual belief (the best of which for her/civilization purposes is Christianity); She (and every civilized person) should identify (see themselves) as Christianity. - My response: wrong at every point.
There is a problem with lack of nuance in this issue. If you aren't explicitly Islamophobic, then by default you must support many/all aspects of Islam - politically, socially or religiously. I'd say the single biggest issue with religions is how easily they are co-opted and weaponized by political entities. Islam is arguably the worst for that currently, but Christianity in the past was at _least_ as bad. And I am under no illusions as to what say US society would look like under the ideology of people like Mike Johnson or Matt Walsh. As a vehement anti-theist I'm pretty much equally against Islam and Christianity theologically, morally and politically. It really annoys me when I see atheists making special pleadings for or against specific religions based on what appears to be personal bias.
You can't beat Islam or the LGBT with atheism. You need another religion to do that and Christianity is the best religion around. I don't believe in any god but i think Ayaan is doing the right thing. I just might join her.
Saw Rationality Rule's analysis and had a tough time believing that he wasn't leaving anything out. Nope. The article isn't long and _more_ words are spent on explaining issues with Islam than on the benefits of Christianity. It's a bit shocking that an atheist of such political and philosophical renown would write so very little on such a massive turn about. Its very brevity and in particular use of terms like "woke ideology" and "virtue signalling" indicate to me that her change of heart has more to do with her wallet and clout than any deeply held beliefs. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop such as a contract with the Daily Wire, PragerU or a right wing think tank like the Heritage Foundation.
This is scientifically so interesting!! From this perspective, this is another data point/s in the superfuzzy studies of geopolitical socio-economics. Studying it empirically will be so fascinating for any research scientist who can take a deeper dive into this phenomenon! This is AHA's reaction to her set of influences in her life until now. From suffering as a second-class citizen within the muslim fold and then finding herself at the high policy-making levels of government, privy to studies and expert analysis on the political instability in Europe and the rest of the world - and seeing it in from that lens of 'fear' of an impending fight between enlightened 'western' forces against the backward-looking 'others' (woke/jihadists/authoritarians) is definitely worth a college course!
You (and may otehrs who have commented on this) miss out what I think is the key element of Ms Ali's change of heart. She mentions (publicly) that she went through a prolonged period of mental distress and began seeing therapists to counter her depression. At one point she tells a therapist about her deconversion and how abhorrent she found the idea of God that she had been brought up with and rejected. The therapist suggested that she make up her own "good" god and to her surprise (she says) the ideal God was Jesus. Now sadly she was not pressed on this and failed to elaborate exactly how it led her to belief (both in an interview on Unherd and in her published statement). She also did not elaborate on the precise nature of that belief. However it seems clear that life without faith was a struggle for her and that whatever sort of Christianity she now professes is offering her meaning in both the personal and political spheres of her life.
She may consider herself an ally of Christianity rather than a believer. As an atheist myself I see nothing wrong in believing in a christian God I just don't. Given who to stand with as an ally I would personally defend christianity over Islam any day.
I wonder about the intrinsic/extrinsic distinction here. Any reason can be reframed as instrumental in some sense because they align with someone's goals/values, or there's some personal benefit. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's invalidating.
Depends on what you want meaning or purpose for. I'm assuming you mean the meaning of life. I think you can look at it two ways, both equally valid. One is that you decide for yourself what life means to you, or you believe there is no meaning to life. The thing is, I don't see how adding a God into the mix really changes that. Saying that God gives life meaning is just as arbitrary as determining meaning for yourself.
@@FlyingFox86 First both cannot be equally valid objectively. Also I’d explain to you why God is needed. Now using your explanation, we can discern our meaning or life ourselves, what if I discern the meaning of life and to me it means I can do what ever I want regardless of the repercussion, then who has the right to tell me I am wrong? Or what I am doing is harmful? since that’s my meaning of life. This is where God comes is because he is the standard by which we measure all right or wrong actions, else there is no reason to say I am wrong on anything, and everything goes. Murder, stealing or lying would not be wrong, because everyone discerns their own meaning.
@@Flameoflove01 Both can be equally valid because purpose can mean different things. If you think of purpose as something that has to be given by an external source, by definition, then you cannot give it to your own life. But if you don't define purpose that way, you can give it to your own life. There is no contradiction there. There is indeed nothing stopping you from deciding that the purpose in your life is to cause harm to others. But that doesn't stop me from considering it wrong, and it doesn't stop society from penalizing you. Again, God does not really change any of that. If I believed God existed, I would still make up my own mind about what's right or wrong and about the meaning of my life. The same goes for religious people, who decide for themselves to link those things to a God. But you are muddling up purpose of life with the question of morality. Those may have overlap, but are not the same thing. You are basically arguing that God needs to exist in order for objective morality to exist. But I would deny both that there is such a thing as objective morality and that a hypothetical God could provide it. As a value judgement, morality is by definition subjective. If you follow what you've interpreted as God's law, that is your subjective decision on a subjective interpretation. The same goes for when I decide what is right or wrong based on my core values.
@@FlyingFox86 I agree I probably mixed up morality and purpose in a way. But I still don’t see what would justify anyone/society who would decide to penalise one for doing bad, and on what grounds would the person be penalized. I’d say we are talking about the wrong things because we could debate on purpose and meaning of life for hours… personally I’d say the purpose and meaning to life is already written in our hearts/ in us, because we do it and we seek it without necessarily knowing about its source. To prove there is a God, we’d have to understand the origin and how it all began, and based on human experience we can say anything that has a purpose has a creator, for example a car has a purpose, a cup, table etc and because they have a purpose we can know there is a Creator for these things, why can’t that be applied to the universe and we humans?
@@Flameoflove01 The thing that justifies penalizing people doing bad, is that we don't want people doing bad. As long as enough of a population has some common ground on what they consider wrong, we can make laws penalizing it. Again, God's existence would not change that. Things don't have a creator because they have purpose. Things have purpose because they have a creator (though that isn't always the case either). We know the purpose of human created objects, because we created them. But you can't deduce there is a creator from the existence of purpose, as you need to know there is a creator in order to determine if there is a purpose. You are right that to prove God exists, you'd need to understand the origin and how it all began. At least for a certain definition of God. We currently don't know how it all began, if it began at all.
I think that she's probably closest to the average west European christian who is fairly sure there is a god, but isn't too bothered about the rest of scripture and only gets to church for baptisms,weddings and funerals. It provides (or at least appears to provide) some sort of societal structure for the West. But just maybe it was classical civilisation that did that and not the Roman Catholic church?
I suspect Tom Holland would disagree. He examines the Classical world in his book _Dominion,_ and concludes that Classical values fall a long way short, and that our contemporary values come from Christianity.
If she is all about "Judeo-Christian" values, why doesn't Ali convert to Judaism rather than Christianity? This all seems very opportunistic and devoid of conviction.
Good for her. Those that haven’t been through the spiritual journey would not be able to understand what it is to be “ spiritually bankrupt “. Only those who had a relationship with the divine can understand this. Do not judge her, nobody mock God, she is in a journey, and if her motives are wrong only God knows. Be patient and pray for her. And those who are curious just wait and you’ll see. Galatians 6: 7-8. “ Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whoever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life”.
"Those that haven’t been through the spiritual journey would not be able to understand what it is to be “ spiritually bankrupt “" She has not been. That is the whole point. Prayers are overrated. Where was god when german nazi was killing 7 million jews? Oh, wait, they were praying to the wrong god. I'm sorry. My bad. LMAO
What a stupid infantile comment you atheist infant. In fact there is no point in elaborations as you are clearly an idiot. atheists are almost worse than Muslims, both lose their minds when someone actually decides to leave and publicly point to the depressing and futile worldviews of both
@@sabriya7647 WOW I cannot believe that WOKE ideology is so similar to Islam, it's outrageous. I'm not American I'm Irish and Thank God we haven't become soft like you idiots
Fundamental errors of Ali's thinking include: 1 - Western civilization is founded on Ancient Greek culture and philosophy, not Judeo-Christian tradition. 2 - Christianity was imposed on the West by the Roman Empire by the sword. 3 - Islam started as a sect of Christianity. 4 - "Wokeism" is not one of the threats to civilization, but the solution. 5 - Progressive thinking is what made Western civilization worth accepting. Christianity represents the opposite, regression, reactionary thinking and lack of inclusion.
The important thing is that she realizes the importance of Christ's message for the hope of civilization, like Tom Holland, that it is at the foundation of all we hold dear about the West. For an atheist to write an article like she did, no matter if she used the right expressions or not, is evidence of a sea change that cannot be denied. Sometimes seeing the light begins like this, seeing that Jesus life and teachings makes a difference in existence, for the whole, and as well as the individual. I am celebrating her enlightenment, even if she didn't cross the t's and dot the i's. Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!
Except that many of Christ's teachings have become largely outdated. Jesus used to condone slavery in Luke 17. So did Peter in 1 Peter 2:18. Jesus believed that people would be blessed for believing despite not seeing, something which many conmen would have loved from the people they are trying to exploit. Jesus talked about how one ought to receive further injury in Matthew 5:38. What would that do to someone who takes that seriously? They'd allow themselves to be a doormat. And read Matthew 5:38 carefully, Jesus did not say you ought to use your own discernment to determine when to receive further injury, but that this was ANYONE who inflicted injury on you. Jesus stated he was here to split families, saying he was here to bring a sword, not peace. A sword implies violence, not just mere beef you have with someone. Now why would the prince of peace come down to earth and espouse violence, and not solidarity? As someone who calls on others to be fishers of man, and himself who draws people unto him, it is rather contradictory to think people deserve eternal punishment on the grounds of belief. And what does it mean when someone who has not even accepted the core doctrine of Christianity chooses to identify themself as a Christian? Don't you think that would be a false conversion? A wolf in sheep's clothing? What does it mean for the church to joyfully accept such a person? Would you accept Simon the Sorcerer into the church for wanting the power and influence that Peter had just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali does to withstand the power of foreign countries? She is a most dangerous person to the Christian faith right now, and she will 'distort' Christ's message to suit her needs, as many men and women in the past have done. A sea of change will happen all right, but consider carefully what it will be. ua-cam.com/video/OsAaxOFOUl4/v-deo.htmlsi=ugKkEovXGsi3znsj
She is the Simon the Sorcerer of the modern time. Attracted to power, the power to withstand the powers of foreign countries, not the doctrine of Christianity.
If she wants Christianity to be a bulwark against attacks on Enlightenment values, that's going to rule out many (most?) varieties of Christianity, so she's going to need to spell out exactly which type of Christianity carries out this task.
Especially considering how christian Russia is
Good point. The more fundamentalist versions of Christianity are mostly anti enlightenment. And the more liberal churches that do embrace the enlightenment usually get labeled as "woke" by conservatives. Quite a tension 🤔
I don’t think that she realizes attacks against Enlightenment values transcends theistic religions, and include political and ideological ones.
Given that she's become a darling of religious fundamentalists, she probably thinks traditional Catholicism will secure Enlightenment values.
Enlightenment values are Christian values
She’s discovered the usefulness of religion as a political tool. In most cases, people utilise that knowledge to abandon theism. It seems she’s not the intellectual the new atheists believed she was.
None of the new atheists are intellectuals 😂
which moron ever thought she was an intellectual? shes been a right wing grifter since day one
@@pabloandres6179 you might want to read some of Dan Dennetts works before making such a bold statement.
@@pabloandres6179Meanwhile, people still continue to form the most fantastic beliefs about supernatural events based on hearsay and theological literature culminating in a preferred chosen religion. Delusion is a wonderful thing, it allows you to believe whatever your chosen narrative is but demonstrably, you already know this. *"God"* 😂😂😂
@@ArjanKop You'd have to teach him to read first.
Is it wrong to call you ginger Jesus? Your new style is rad... your analysis is also insightful.
It’s not wrong. Some might say it’s morally obligatory.
What even is "Western Civilization"? I've never seen a coherent definition of this, unless you mean white conservatism. You see this with the phrase "Judeo Christian", a phrase which whenever I hear it, tells me the speaker is historically illiterate. Jews were persecuted by Christians for most of history, and every non conservative Jew that I know despises the term. If you're going to link the two religions together as one theology, it would make just as much sense, if not more so, to refer to "Abrahamic values". But of course, everyone who uses the phrase "Judeo Christian" wants to specifically exclude the third religion that falls under the "Abrahamic" umbrella, even though if you discuss theological concepts such as the afterlife and whether every human is obligated to hold the correct belief about God, the term "Christo Islamic" is a lot more reality based than "Judeo Christian".
Back to "Western Civilization". The "West" is the birthplace of Adam Smith and Karl Marx. Countless works of art and literature from conflicting genres have been produced in Europe and America.
Well said!
Finally someone who knows history. holy fuck. I feel like history has been hijacked by these fucking right wing grifters. and it's sad.
Unsavoury beliefs and motivations are always hidden behind ambiguous terms.
"Judeo-Christian" just means "not the Muslims".
She means the enlightenment and liberal democracies that protect minority rights. How is this not obvious?
Basically her conversion is based more on the motivations of Christian Nationalists than it does any sense of spiritual growth. Weird reasoning from someone that has taken a stand against the dogmatism of religious thinking.
I just converted to Zorgism, because i like its explanation about the meaning of life and it makes me feel good to believe in something (just don't ask me to demonstrate if its actually true 😮)
Don't forget to buy my book about my conversion (i really need more Bitcoin)
Zorgism will save civilisation from the existential threat that is "wokism"! 😅
I wonder if Ayaan came out of a strong religious belief system and kind of missed it. So she has plunged back in, but to a different religious belief system.
A great commentary BTW.
I really like your tone and presentation style. It’s calm, clear, and precise, and the tone of your voice helps make the content feel kind and unharsh (as I’m sure it was intended to be). Came here from Rationality Rules and was pleasantly surprised. Thanks :)
Thank you! Very nice of you to say. :)
This is the most thought out delve into this "conversion" that I have seen, and it is a bit annoying how many takes I have seen on this. Thanks for making yours worth my time.
I subscribed because Rationality Rules recommended you.
Me too 👍
The phenomenon of political conversion is nothing new. It seems to have been quite common especially in the late 19th/early 20th century, especially in Britain, and especially rightwing leaning to Roman Catholic (with a disproportionate number being gay/bisexual white men). I would argue that it is a symptom of the decline of religion, because it trivializes religion to the level of politics.
Inane is the word. Thank you for this thoughtful analysis! Clearly Atheism is not a Doctrine or an Ideology, Atheism does not necessitate Nihilism, it is simply not being convinced by Theistic arguments.
I think people equate atheism and nihilism because atheism doesnt actually offer anything in the realm of philosophy or worldview. It only negates
Remember when Antony Flew, one of the most if not the most influential atheist philosopher of the 20th century, declared he could no longer subscribe to a wholly naturalistic view of creation following his observations of the Human Genone Project? Remember Richard Dawkins reaction? All he did was call him a senile old man. A genuine intellect would have sought Flew out to ask why the change in thought. A follower of an ideology, again, declared Flew to be a senile old man. And so here is Ali facing the same derision from the faithful of the ideology she left.
The best analysis of the evidence says theism.
ua-cam.com/video/9SL_xqSvWqU/v-deo.htmlsi=qbFQKOppfMvxlrVw
Atheism is am ideology. You live as if God doesn't exist so it's a negation of God. You can call it all you want but but Philippians 2:10-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The question is, if Jesus was the truth, would you follow it?
@@Masowe. No, not believing in claims by Theists such as yourself is NOT an ideology, no matter how many ignorant petulant bullshit claims you make. You CLAIM there is a God but have exactly ZERO justified evidence to support your claim. I don't consider the Bible to have any Authority so you lose again in your witless attempt to define people according to your bias rather than facts. You are a fool.
An opportunist … self serving person …
Like many lifelong atheists I'd never heard about her before this "conversion".
I see this essay as her job application to replace Candy Onions on the Daily Whine, if Benny-boy Shabibo fires her for disagreeing with him about genocide.
She could function not only as their token black woman, but also as their ex-Muslim, ex-atheist, and is a US immigrant to boot, while still being busy calling for white supremacy and patriarchy, all under the guise of anti-wokeness, whatever that's supposed to be.
pretty much
You are 💯per right.
I'd say that would count as prophecy if I believed in that stuff, and in a few months time I suspect you're going to feel a mixture of smugness and sadness as we find out you were right.
quite likely
Hope so!❤
Thank you for the discussion. There are fundamental differences between Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Andrew Tate, namely decency and thoughtfulness. I do not need to agree with her conversion for her to have my respect.
This "conversion" is so questionable that I'm withholding respect for this take. Is her next move a thoughtful analysis of her position (because her article was not that)? Or as I suspect will it be a contract with something like the Daily Wire, PragerU or the Heritage Foundation? Because this whole thing stinks of grift to me. We'll see I guess.
Even Dawkins refers to himself as a "cultural Christian".
All the New Atheists are diving in now.
She basically said that, to fight a cult we need a cult 😂
I'm not sure she's wrong. The more I learn of Islam, particularly with regard to how they treat women, the less I care for it. But, as a theist myself, I'm not going to complain about people believing in deity.
Personally, I think The Urantia Book is the way to go, as the dogma in the Bible, at times, is scarcely any different from the male patriarchy of Islam. But then, being able to understand The Urantia Book requires higher level education, which not everybody has.
@@Sirrus-Adam What the “Urantia Book” is about? Don’t say it’s an another update from Jeebus, lol
She might be right. Islam is certainly a threat to freedom of thought. However, Christianity seems to tolerate freedom over encouraging it. Seems like she’s just joining the strongest tribe in order to fight the things she fears. The enemy of my enemy.
@@Sirrus-Adamalthough I'm with you on the fact she's not wrong I'm an atheist going to Islam I think you do indeed need a cult to fight a cult. You need a group of like minded people who believe in something.
@@NativeVsColonial - The Urantia Book is a divine epochal revelation written by a commission of celestial personalities, sharing their areas of expertise about the cosmos. It's not a "religious" book per se, although it does contain a lot of information about the deities. It does a nice job of blending science and religion and advocates for both coexisting peacefully. It opens thusly:
0:0.1 (1.1) IN THE MINDS of the mortals of Urantia - that being the name of your world - there exists great confusion respecting the meaning of such terms as God, divinity, and deity. Human beings are still more confused and uncertain about the relationships of the divine personalities designated by these numerous appellations. Because of this conceptual poverty associated with so much ideational confusion, I have been directed to formulate this introductory statement in explanation of the meanings which should be attached to certain word symbols as they may be hereinafter used in those papers which the Orvonton corps of truth revealers have been authorized to translate into the English language of Urantia.
www.urantiabook .org/000-Foreword/#ubf-paperTitle
Part IV contains the complete life and teachings of Jesus, our Paradise Creator Son, Michael of Nebadon. It was written by midwayers, who were there then, and are still around today. No, Jesus was not born of a virgin, Mary was a maiden, meaning she'd never given birth before. She and Joseph were already married when Joseph got her pregnant with Jesus. And, according to them, he was born at noon, August 21, 7 BC.
They got oddly specific about lots of dates, as well as other details.
The key point of the book for me, is the information about Thought Adjusters. We all have one, and they are a direct line to our Divine Father-friend. It shares our entire lives with us, and is there to offer us suggestions on how we can improve our behavior.
It's 2100 pages of dense material, so obviously too long to adequately summarize here. [Remove the spaces from the link to activate it and read the book for yourself.]
you just confirmed that you atheism is just a stance, a "i feel more intelligent saying i am atheist" , Atheism mean nothing since is just an "against" stance... You have to call yourself a reductionist materialist. At the end you want to be an atheist because it looks more "cool" forgetting that you also need a philosophical idea ...
She's in a perpetual state of becoming a right winger. Grifterish. She did this decades ago. Her great enlightenment: becoming a right winger.
I don't have much respect for the sweaty atheists, mentioned, that embraced her. Very worked up post 2001 anti Muslim rhetoric. That's what resonates here. These guys are/were not very eloquent on the matters. I think their posing resonates more with American culture than with more secularized Europe.
Also, I’m not sure what she means exactly by so called ‘Judeo-Christian’ values, seems to just mean conservatism.
Look, she is very smart and an opportunist. She knows how to manifest herself into the world again and again to be considered important. Thats all she wants.
Ali has been a grifter since seeking asylum in the Netherlands. She was never a female member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Africa, nor forced to marry her ex-husband (he paid her a visit in the Netherland after she was granted asylum). She has pandered to Christians for 2 decades encouraging Christian Missionaries to go to Muslim Countries. I am shocked Ali didn't politically convert years ago.
None of this will make a difference anyway,
Religion in the United States is dying regardless of what is trotted out to try and endorse it.
This lady lied about her name, age and claimed to have fled war zone Somalia when she was living in upper-middle class comfort in Kenya … among other lies … She was found to have not legitimately received her Dutch citizenship … all revealed in the TV programme Zambla …
Christianity vs Russia? Does she (or you) not know that Christianity is central to Putin's politics?
She doesn't understand how grifting works apparently. You aren't supposed to admit that you are doing a grift. The fact that she can just blatantly admit that she is a christian for purely political reasons and not see any problem with it is baffling.
I don't think it really matters anymore, tbh. Hate the right people, flatter the right people, and you can be as obvious as you want.
I think Trump taught many in 2016 that they no longer need to be subtle about it.
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. A contract with PragerU, the Daily Wire, the Heritage Foundation or similar entity. She either has one lined up or is hoping for one. The only rational explanation for this ridiculous essay. Because deeply held belief (by her own admission) does not play a part.
Also, she said she believes in a higher power, which first makes her a deist. She hasn't mentioned an intervening higher power, which would then make her a theist. Honestly, she will need to defend these points at some point (as long as she's a public figure) or do some very awkward backtracking
When “woke” is invoked, I find the argument is weakened
Atheist can't recover from this blow.😅😅😅. Ayaan God bless for this gift to atheist. Atheism has left the west in a state of confusion. They are having debates on what is a woman can you believe this?
I do not think that some objective meaning is necessary for people to have meaningful lives, but even if it is, as a cosmopsychist and an axiarchist I think that nature (or the universe) might have some purpose for us.
A low-key and sympathetic description of Hirhi Ali's conversion. Thanks for that.
Let me be fair but BLUNT, Ayaan Hirsi Ali's belief in God and how she goes about worshipping is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. And if you think you are being a good Christian you are NOT!! Mathew ch. 7, vs. 1 thru 5, "judge NOT lest you be judged" and ends with "thou hypocrite"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Somebody smarter than me should explain why there seems to be a connection between the new athiest movement and right wing politics 🤔
I suspect that it has a lot to do with the fact that the popularity of the New Atheists in the 2000s was partly due to post-9/11 Islamophobia.
It wasn’t always that way, although the ‘new atheists’ were pretty much hard liners from the beginning. I wasn’t surprised to see Dawkins saying some pretty uneducated things about gender recently. It’s not their atheism, it’s their inability to accept different views that makes them feel at home with the far right.
@@TMMx if I just quote Islamic scriptures, is that Islamophobic? Take this for example. I could cite hundreds.
Sahih al-Bukhari 2925
Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar:
Allah's Messenger said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews until some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O `Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so k.ill him.'"
@@diaryofnricom163 In and of itself, no. It would depend on the motivation. If you're scared of Muslims and you want to make Muslims look scary to others, and you find passages in their scriptures that you think will effectively accomplish that, then in that case it would be Islamophobic.
@@TMMx Muslims are humans like you and me. Horrendous ideology of Islam needs to be exposed as most muslims either ignore horrible parts for convenience or just cherry pick good parts or try to justify the indefensible. Same goes for all religions but since last 50 years, it is beyond doubt as to which religion is most toxic.
So her basic argument is that atheism is insufficiently bigoted for her tastes. Good to know. Frankly I find this outcome wholly unsurprising, she has long been courting the hatemongering Right.
She has been publishing on the same right-wing site for a while now. I would not be surprised that she was pushed, kind of like Jordan Peterson, into milking the Christian crowd.
Finally someone call Woods for what he is
"Absolute clown" indeed!
I may be biased, but it seems to me that Woods has done some very good work attacking Islam. When it comes to his attacks on atheism, then, yeah, he's a clown.
I do see plenty of people that claim to be Christians but don't seem to believe it but in a mostly Christian society see the advantages of the membership.
Atheism is not a "doctrine" as Ayaan states....that is why there is no binding agent built into the concept. Not believing in a God or Gods is all it is. People wander off in all directions beyond that one point of view. I imagine she found it incredibly frustrating to fight against Islam from this perspective. She'd have people accusing her of Islamophobia or some such nonsense. Worse, if you disagree with "woke" concepts then you'd have your own turn against you in many cases.
Agnosticism I understand: "Hey, I don't know how all this got here. All I know is that it's here now." No faith required. But atheism requires a very level of faith. And arrogance.
How?
I'm not atheist but it seems you have to misrepresent it in order to claim it's a faith.
I strongly believe Ayan has made a good choice. She did mention it's more logical to believe in the existence of a “Transcendent Power” (God) than the theology of atheism. She has made her choice, and that, a good choice. I advise you to open your mind to reason and watch more of her interviews about her new position.
There is no future for atheism, either it continues to be tolerated under Christian watch or gets crushed under Islam. The theology of atheism is far from the truth.
I am proud to be a Christian, follower of Jesus Christ. Life is not truly beautiful and has no meaning outside of Him.
Correct. Ali is merely signaling her political alignment. If there's any substance to her original post, it's that. Her purported theism is an unconvincing afterthought.
Hey, good comparison there with Ali. I find people who worship some vague "West" to be blind, but then, I am an anarchist.
Emerson, did you research her videos of her talking to her therapist ? Ayann explicitly states that the Therapist put it to her that she was "Spiritually Bankrupt ."Ayann then described the void within her and her abuse of alcohol. She said she nows go to Church attempting to learn more about Christianity.ua-cam.com/video/L0d81NWSo68/v-deo.html
Edit: I see you pointed out her main flaw in reasoning at 9:30. I agree...its very difficult to take seriously someone who claims they derive meaning from an entity whose existence has been far from proven. I struggle to see how that would apply to more ancient gods like Zeus or Thor. If you chose to believe in them just because you liked their moral principles, wouldn't that belief effectively be quite hollow? How could you take your own beliefs seriously? And isn't the fakeness of that whole belief system a big reason why we are seeing a thinning out in religious belief in general? Your belief in God ought to be based on something, and if its not, then I don't see how you are defending against Islam or whatever else with a fairy tale that basically has the seriousness of the tooth fairy
Ali is no more a political convert to Christianity as she was to Atheism before that, in-fact less so. She didn't convert cuz of protect the west, she converted cuz of the detrimental effects of Atheism to her state of mind and life. She always was already doing the bullwark against Islam stuff before that.
Maybe a minor point, but I find it interesting that she names Russia as one of the authoritarian threats against which Christianity might provide a bulwark, when Russia has been making an almost identical argument in the other direction: it claims that its alleged championing of traditional Christianity makes Russia one of the world's primary bulwarks against Western "wokeness". From what I've seen, most political converts seem to side with Russia on that point, and often on other points as well.
I am Muslim women from Africa and we live together with Christians in harmony even with our differences but am quite sure she not atheist in the 1st place we know in Africa there are superstitions w/c celebrated yearly... you can criticize religion with evidence i agree with thatbut pretending to be something wich you're not...is shame
A respecful and well articulated point of view. Well said Emerson Green
we are not mold, we can be spiritual and altruistic without believing in past banalities. Why then believe in a banal religion like the Abrahamic one which has only caused damage? So as long as he's not Buddhist? The reality is that we are satisfied with simple answers.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the philosophers as false, and by the rulers as useful." (Seneca the Younger)
"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." (Lucretius)
Can you define religion?
You know what and why and how it occured?
What the story mean.
I think she has become a Christian in her intimacy, but she is smart enough to sustein the only argument possible of eventually convincing atheists to at least open up to the realization that the "decency" of western civilization comes, at least to some extent, with Christianity.
Jesus actually has a secret weapon: The Spirit of Truth, that can testify to the individual about what is true and what isn't without overbearing logical arguments. Religion is largely emotional, which atheism is not. And emotions are exciting. Obviously I can't claim Ayaan had any awareness of the Spirit of Truth, but upon exposure to Jesus' message of believers becoming like the Father, which is completely absent from Islam, would be a good, attractive thing.
The Spirit of Truth failed to reveal even basic Christology to Christians for several centuries, and never got around to revealing anything as useful as, say, the germ theory of disease. The claim given in John 16:13 appears to be a complete falsehood. Useful knowledge is worked out by men, painfully and over centuries.
@@nevbarnes1034 - I think we have a disconnect. The Spirit of Truth has to do with spiritual truths, not material ones. And most people have not trained their minds to go into the stillness in order to be receptive to it, so no, it's not going to give us unearned knowledge.
And by all means, knowledge gained from experience is the basis upon which we all operate. Scientific proofs that confirm that knowledge are nice, but not the main source of information. People who die from eating poisonous plants save those who come after who learn to avoid them. There was a time when plates were porous and if you mixed milk based food with meat products, they didn't play well, so we got kosher laws. The fact that plates are no longer porous should mean keeping kosher is no longer necessary, but many of us are very familiar with that song from Fiddler on the Roof: Tradition, Tradition!
Anyhow, Ayaan making that move is interesting, hence this conversation. Realizing a truth can be emotional. But I suspect most religious people are more in it for the safety of group dynamics. Survival improves when you have friends.
Tom Holland, author of _Dominion,_ says he is a Christian but not a theist. I suspect Ali is in a similar camp.
I have a hard time calling someone a liberal that hugs the right wing extreme and calls people "woke".
why do you look so different.
Contacts? Not cutting my hair? I've also been replaced with a clone. That might be it.
The more i look into her the more it feels like a right wing grift. She worked for Prager U
How can one defend enlightenment values, which are the rule of reason and evidence -based thinking, with Christianity,, which is their negation?
I don't see a single green thing in your video, Mr. Green. Nor do I see any objects obviously originating from Emerson, GA. And you expect me to take your Big Time Philosophy Man analysis seriously? For shame.
Nevermind, there is a green book on the shelf. One million billion apologies. You still have to justify your Emersonianism.
Most Russians profess Christianity.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali JUST NEEDS TO GET PAID!!!
She wants attention!
3:12 how the heck is the CCP & Putin related to wokeness!?
… i dont like her
They can't even define wokeness.
@@lizd2943Illiberal social justice. And there's your awnser. They're both Illiberal.
Wokeness is being aware of social injustice. But conservatism is based on conserving traditional hierarchies which they convince themselves are the natural order, so righting injustice feels like injustice to them. @@myself2noone
They just conflate all they hate into one category….
She did a great job attacking Islam and now she seeks comfort in the imaginary world of Christianity. I wish her well.
She's free to go wherever she wants to go but it doesn't change the truth of what she discovered and wrote in her books.
This definitely needed to be said. Glad you highlighted some of the Christian voices expressing skepticism re her “conversion.”
Personally, I don’t care if people call themselves Christians for social reasons, even if they don’t buy the metaphysics. I sometimes think of myself that way (although it has nothing to do with owning the libs in my case). But I don’t think the anti-atheist apologetics crowd should be taking a victory lap here.
Islam doesn't force anyone to do what he/she doesn't like. It was due to unlearned parents who forced her married. May due to family poor live or friend family. Read the Quran with understanding, and then you come out with solutions.
islam doesn't force anyone? the whole history of Islam is filled with death and destruction- responsible for over 200M deaths, and still counting if you count the attacks in nigeria against christians. your quran speaks of beheading anyone who is deemed none-muslim. most of the middle eastern Muslims where christians, and other groups who underwent forced conversations: convert or die. that is islam
For some reason her position reminds me of that of Tom Holland. But to embrace Christianity as a cultural force rather than “a personal relationship with the living Christ” seems odd. Then again Christianity is a broad church - the Christianity of Peter Rollins, Paul Tillich or John Caputo is a long way from traditional Christianity. I love your approach btw!
Soon, she will convert Judaism
Well, I couldn't wait after reading your post, lol....so much to say...
Hey - loved this analysis. For me, her second argument can be broken down like this: Life without spiritual belief is unbearable (for her and possibly everyone); In order for life to be bearable, she (people) need spiritual belief (the best of which for her/civilization purposes is Christianity); She (and every civilized person) should identify (see themselves) as Christianity. - My response: wrong at every point.
and today Dawkins is essential claiming the same as her- but using a more colourful term- cultural Christianity
Not really. Dawkins is doing it to admit history. She’s doing it for other reasons, motivated by fear, allyship & at least some personal gain.
people debating a woman are hilarious.
But I understand her in the way that many atheists are afraid of criticising Islam
There is a problem with lack of nuance in this issue. If you aren't explicitly Islamophobic, then by default you must support many/all aspects of Islam - politically, socially or religiously.
I'd say the single biggest issue with religions is how easily they are co-opted and weaponized by political entities. Islam is arguably the worst for that currently, but Christianity in the past was at _least_ as bad. And I am under no illusions as to what say US society would look like under the ideology of people like Mike Johnson or Matt Walsh.
As a vehement anti-theist I'm pretty much equally against Islam and Christianity theologically, morally and politically. It really annoys me when I see atheists making special pleadings for or against specific religions based on what appears to be personal bias.
David Wood ain’t no clown, see?
You can't beat Islam or the LGBT with atheism. You need another religion to do that and Christianity is the best religion around.
I don't believe in any god but i think Ayaan is doing the right thing. I just might join her.
You can't be homophobic or transphobic and claim enlightenment values. Conservatism is the worst enemy of western civilization.
😂😂😂😂😂
She followed who pay well.
Saw Rationality Rule's analysis and had a tough time believing that he wasn't leaving anything out. Nope. The article isn't long and _more_ words are spent on explaining issues with Islam than on the benefits of Christianity. It's a bit shocking that an atheist of such political and philosophical renown would write so very little on such a massive turn about.
Its very brevity and in particular use of terms like "woke ideology" and "virtue signalling" indicate to me that her change of heart has more to do with her wallet and clout than any deeply held beliefs. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop such as a contract with the Daily Wire, PragerU or a right wing think tank like the Heritage Foundation.
This is scientifically so interesting!! From this perspective, this is another data point/s in the superfuzzy studies of geopolitical socio-economics. Studying it empirically will be so fascinating for any research scientist who can take a deeper dive into this phenomenon! This is AHA's reaction to her set of influences in her life until now. From suffering as a second-class citizen within the muslim fold and then finding herself at the high policy-making levels of government, privy to studies and expert analysis on the political instability in Europe and the rest of the world - and seeing it in from that lens of 'fear' of an impending fight between enlightened 'western' forces against the backward-looking 'others' (woke/jihadists/authoritarians) is definitely worth a college course!
😢😢😢
You (and may otehrs who have commented on this) miss out what I think is the key element of Ms Ali's change of heart. She mentions (publicly) that she went through a prolonged period of mental distress and began seeing therapists to counter her depression. At one point she tells a therapist about her deconversion and how abhorrent she found the idea of God that she had been brought up with and rejected. The therapist suggested that she make up her own "good" god and to her surprise (she says) the ideal God was Jesus.
Now sadly she was not pressed on this and failed to elaborate exactly how it led her to belief (both in an interview on Unherd and in her published statement). She also did not elaborate on the precise nature of that belief. However it seems clear that life without faith was a struggle for her and that whatever sort of Christianity she now professes is offering her meaning in both the personal and political spheres of her life.
It's weird I made a video on Ayaan four days before you that featured this article on Andrew Tate. I'm genuinely curious if you saw my video.
She may consider herself an ally of Christianity rather than a believer. As an atheist myself I see nothing wrong in believing in a christian God I just don't. Given who to stand with as an ally I would personally defend christianity over Islam any day.
I wonder about the intrinsic/extrinsic distinction here. Any reason can be reframed as instrumental in some sense because they align with someone's goals/values, or there's some personal benefit. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's invalidating.
"absolute clowns like David Wood" 👍
and clowns like apostate prophet who is willing to host anyone no matter how disgusting they are as long as they hate muslims.
How then can you derive meaning/purpose without a God?
I am sincerely curious, what Atheists or agnostics like you think about this.
Depends on what you want meaning or purpose for. I'm assuming you mean the meaning of life. I think you can look at it two ways, both equally valid. One is that you decide for yourself what life means to you, or you believe there is no meaning to life.
The thing is, I don't see how adding a God into the mix really changes that. Saying that God gives life meaning is just as arbitrary as determining meaning for yourself.
@@FlyingFox86 First both cannot be equally valid objectively. Also I’d explain to you why God is needed. Now using your explanation, we can discern our meaning or life ourselves, what if I discern the meaning of life and to me it means I can do what ever I want regardless of the repercussion, then who has the right to tell me I am wrong? Or what I am doing is harmful? since that’s my meaning of life. This is where God comes is because he is the standard by which we measure all right or wrong actions, else there is no reason to say I am wrong on anything, and everything goes. Murder, stealing or lying would not be wrong, because everyone discerns their own meaning.
@@Flameoflove01 Both can be equally valid because purpose can mean different things. If you think of purpose as something that has to be given by an external source, by definition, then you cannot give it to your own life. But if you don't define purpose that way, you can give it to your own life. There is no contradiction there.
There is indeed nothing stopping you from deciding that the purpose in your life is to cause harm to others. But that doesn't stop me from considering it wrong, and it doesn't stop society from penalizing you.
Again, God does not really change any of that. If I believed God existed, I would still make up my own mind about what's right or wrong and about the meaning of my life. The same goes for religious people, who decide for themselves to link those things to a God.
But you are muddling up purpose of life with the question of morality. Those may have overlap, but are not the same thing. You are basically arguing that God needs to exist in order for objective morality to exist. But I would deny both that there is such a thing as objective morality and that a hypothetical God could provide it.
As a value judgement, morality is by definition subjective. If you follow what you've interpreted as God's law, that is your subjective decision on a subjective interpretation. The same goes for when I decide what is right or wrong based on my core values.
@@FlyingFox86 I agree I probably mixed up morality and purpose in a way. But I still don’t see what would justify anyone/society who would decide to penalise one for doing bad, and on what grounds would the person be penalized. I’d say we are talking about the wrong things because we could debate on purpose and meaning of life for hours… personally I’d say the purpose and meaning to life is already written in our hearts/ in us, because we do it and we seek it without necessarily knowing about its source.
To prove there is a God, we’d have to understand the origin and how it all began, and based on human experience we can say anything that has a purpose has a creator, for example a car has a purpose, a cup, table etc and because they have a purpose we can know there is a Creator for these things, why can’t that be applied to the universe and we humans?
@@Flameoflove01 The thing that justifies penalizing people doing bad, is that we don't want people doing bad. As long as enough of a population has some common ground on what they consider wrong, we can make laws penalizing it.
Again, God's existence would not change that.
Things don't have a creator because they have purpose. Things have purpose because they have a creator (though that isn't always the case either). We know the purpose of human created objects, because we created them. But you can't deduce there is a creator from the existence of purpose, as you need to know there is a creator in order to determine if there is a purpose.
You are right that to prove God exists, you'd need to understand the origin and how it all began. At least for a certain definition of God. We currently don't know how it all began, if it began at all.
I think that she's probably closest to the average west European christian who is fairly sure there is a god, but isn't too bothered about the rest of scripture and only gets to church for baptisms,weddings and funerals. It provides (or at least appears to provide) some sort of societal structure for the West. But just maybe it was classical civilisation that did that and not the Roman Catholic church?
I suspect Tom Holland would disagree. He examines the Classical world in his book _Dominion,_ and concludes that Classical values fall a long way short, and that our contemporary values come from Christianity.
If she is all about "Judeo-Christian" values, why doesn't Ali convert to Judaism rather than Christianity? This all seems very opportunistic and devoid of conviction.
Good for her. Those that haven’t been through the spiritual journey would not be able to understand what it is to be “ spiritually bankrupt “. Only those who had a relationship with the divine can understand this. Do not judge her, nobody mock God, she is in a journey, and if her motives are wrong only God knows. Be patient and pray for her. And those who are curious just wait and you’ll see. Galatians 6: 7-8. “ Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whoever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life”.
"Those that haven’t been through the spiritual journey would not be able to understand what it is to be “ spiritually bankrupt “" She has not been. That is the whole point.
Prayers are overrated.
Where was god when german nazi was killing 7 million jews? Oh, wait, they were praying to the wrong god. I'm sorry. My bad. LMAO
She believes in money 💰
What a stupid infantile comment you atheist infant. In fact there is no point in elaborations as you are clearly an idiot. atheists are almost worse than Muslims, both lose their minds when someone actually decides to leave and publicly point to the depressing and futile worldviews of both
Exactly the new right-wing political grift
@@sabriya7647 WOW I cannot believe that WOKE ideology is so similar to Islam, it's outrageous. I'm not American I'm Irish and Thank God we haven't become soft like you idiots
Seriously? Do you really think she is desperate for cash? This seems to me to be unnecessarily cynical.
@@nevbarnes1034 check out her and her husband's net worth for God's sake, its got nothing to do with money
Ex-Muslim here. I agree with her that Western civilization needs to be preserved and defended.
From what?
@@LGpi314 Wokeism + communism + political Islam
@@greatguy2141 what are you babbling about?
Define communism for me.
Define wokeism.
What the fck is political islam?
@@LGpi314 Actually, it's Islam period, not just political Islam. The others you can search on your own.
@@greatguy2141 Ok. Islam is bad, so as the any other religion. Why did you not answer other questions?
Someone “witnessed” to her and she drank the CoolAid
Ayaan is on a spiritual journey. Be patient.
Fundamental errors of Ali's thinking include:
1 - Western civilization is founded on Ancient Greek culture and philosophy, not Judeo-Christian tradition.
2 - Christianity was imposed on the West by the Roman Empire by the sword.
3 - Islam started as a sect of Christianity.
4 - "Wokeism" is not one of the threats to civilization, but the solution.
5 - Progressive thinking is what made Western civilization worth accepting. Christianity represents the opposite, regression, reactionary thinking and lack of inclusion.
total lies. muhamed was never a christian.
The important thing is that she realizes the importance of Christ's message for the hope of civilization, like Tom Holland, that it is at the foundation of all we hold dear about the West. For an atheist to write an article like she did, no matter if she used the right expressions or not, is evidence of a sea change that cannot be denied. Sometimes seeing the light begins like this, seeing that Jesus life and teachings makes a difference in existence, for the whole, and as well as the individual. I am celebrating her enlightenment, even if she didn't cross the t's and dot the i's. Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!
Except that many of Christ's teachings have become largely outdated. Jesus used to condone slavery in Luke 17. So did Peter in 1 Peter 2:18. Jesus believed that people would be blessed for believing despite not seeing, something which many conmen would have loved from the people they are trying to exploit.
Jesus talked about how one ought to receive further injury in Matthew 5:38. What would that do to someone who takes that seriously? They'd allow themselves to be a doormat. And read Matthew 5:38 carefully, Jesus did not say you ought to use your own discernment to determine when to receive further injury, but that this was ANYONE who inflicted injury on you.
Jesus stated he was here to split families, saying he was here to bring a sword, not peace. A sword implies violence, not just mere beef you have with someone. Now why would the prince of peace come down to earth and espouse violence, and not solidarity? As someone who calls on others to be fishers of man, and himself who draws people unto him, it is rather contradictory to think people deserve eternal punishment on the grounds of belief.
And what does it mean when someone who has not even accepted the core doctrine of Christianity chooses to identify themself as a Christian? Don't you think that would be a false conversion? A wolf in sheep's clothing? What does it mean for the church to joyfully accept such a person?
Would you accept Simon the Sorcerer into the church for wanting the power and influence that Peter had just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali does to withstand the power of foreign countries?
She is a most dangerous person to the Christian faith right now, and she will 'distort' Christ's message to suit her needs, as many men and women in the past have done. A sea of change will happen all right, but consider carefully what it will be.
ua-cam.com/video/OsAaxOFOUl4/v-deo.htmlsi=ugKkEovXGsi3znsj
6:43 R....*Randy* Rouser????
Slandering a person is not the right way to engage them!
She must be running out of money, what better way to make money than selling a conversion story.
It is okay. Let her be.
Looks like a conversion of convenience, doesn't it? All that attention aimed at 'wokeness' is rather telling.
Haha atheist are still to recover from this shock.😢😢😢.
No shock, no need to recover…
@@christopherhamilton3621 you are still in a state of denial,we do understand bro.
She is the Simon the Sorcerer of the modern time. Attracted to power, the power to withstand the powers of foreign countries, not the doctrine of Christianity.