Was it a horrible show? No. Was it a bad adaptation? Yes. Also the casting of Dresden is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. This guy is a decent Dresden.
I watched the show as a kid before ever starting the books, and I remember enjoying it a decent amount. Definitely not anything like the books though 😂
Most of the badness comes directly from infighting within the corporate structure of the studio. According to Jim himself (he's talked about it before) the show was supposed to start with Storm Front and have an interconnected story for the entire season. New Powers That Be at the channel decided since it wasn't their baby, they would nuke it. They told the showrunner to get rid of all the connective tissue, mix up the episode order and make them all stand alone. So it didn't have a chance because of ego and power plays.
It was this show that made want to read the books. I agree that the show could have been closer to the books and, thus better. It's Dresden Files filtered through television cliche.
I watched the show before I knew the books existed, and thought it was pretty OK. Then I read the books and felt sorry for Jim Butcher, because the show discarded virtually every important feature of the books. It wasn't as malicious and evil as what a studio did to LeGuin* but it was still horrible. *On this subject, when studios are poking around looking for a great book series to turn into a TV show or a few movies, I bothers me that no one says Earthsea. Here is an epic fantasy adventure that was actually maliciously whitewashed and the author flagrantly disrespected, which could scratch that "we need people of color for diversity" itch, and no one is mobbing the studios waving protest signs with the book cover art on them. Such a missed opportunity.
So Jim actually explained the reason the show used a Jeep instead of a VW Beetle is because it’s incredibly difficult to fit actors, cameras, props, lighting, sound equipment, and anything else required into a small car like the Beetle. So they asked Jim if a WWII Jeep would work, Jim gave his blessing, so we have the Jeep. Hope that clears some stuff up!
There are videos on UA-cam of Butcher discussing this adaptation, what he was cool with and what went on behind the scenes. As I recall, the initial show runner was a fan and wanted to do one book per season, or cover two books per season making the show serialized in format. A new executive came onboard at Syfy, one that did not get Science Fiction or Fantasy as genres, and fired the showrunner, then replaced him with the showrunner from Charmed. The new showrunner opted to make each episode unconnected to the next, because conventional industry wisdom states that makes it easier to put into syndication (the episodes can be run out of order as need be), rewrote the scripts and characters, and the nightmare unfolds. I also seem to remember that Butcher liked how they did Bob (at least the casting of Terrance Mann), and the much maligned Valerie Cruz was the only one who read the books and asked him for input.
@@greencertifiedweb That I heard Terrance Mann as Bob’s voice in my head after watching the show - I have no issue with that. Some fan objections to Paul Blackthorne were ridiculous. He might not be 7 feet tall - but how many viable lead actors are? And, yes, he was balding - but he didn’t wear a hat! And, as a Canadian, I can’t help but approve of the hockey stick as a wizard’s staff. 🤷🏼
@@magnusskallagrimsson6707 I liked Blackthorne as Dresden. I don't picture him when I'm reading, I picture more of a Fox Molder in a long leather coat :) But I think if he'd been handed the real material, he would have carried it off well! He had the subtle asshole part down.
as a Constantine fanboy and someone about to start the Dresden series myself, finding out there was a mediocre, early 2000s adaptation delights me greatly 😂 no irony intended. Obscure adaptations are too often a flag for great source material
@@Veles_Ra I just meant the comic Constantine in general. People have told me Dresden is very similar, which is awesome. I liked the movie too - bit of a different, more broody version of the character, but I dig it
Dresden Files is my favorite literary world. Listen to audio if you can - I agree with Daniel and the rest of the fan base that it's the best way to experience them. Also, the first 2 books are the weakest of the series, so if you have a lackluster reaction, don't give up. Butcher was a college kid when he started writing the series. The series and the narration grow in quality and scope.
I only imagine James Marsters whenever I think of Harry Dresden, because of the audiobooks. He captures the character damn near perfectly. They could've done an animated series, and he'd be perfect for the role.
I started listening to the Dresden audiobooks only after watching Marvel's Runaways, so I imagine Marsters as Johnny Marcone. This show's actresses for Susan and Murphy are flipped. Bob was great, imo. And for Harry, I imagine Noah Wyle because of how similar his character is in The Librarian movies.
Every time Bob talks when I’m reading the books, I hear Salem the cat’s voice from Sabrina the teenage witch. This makes him the best character in the books.
So the show actually did film Storm Front as the pilot, but Syfy didn’t air it first, instead putting it midway through the season, and it really ruined the flow of the show, even for me when I was younger watching it and hadn’t read the books.
Tbh the first few books were made when he first started writing. Even Jim butcher says the books get better after the first two. Wouldn't be surprised if they skipped because of that
You can really tell that JB was still figuring things out when he wrote Storm Front - sweeping up magic scorpions with an enchanted broom really doesn’t fit the rest of the series. If Dresden Files ever gets another try at an adaptation I’d be happy for that book to be skipped or heavily altered. Dead Beat I’d want done faithfully as a film though.
I'd really love to see another crack at adapting Dresden for TV. I'm picturing an animated streaming series on one of the more well-funded services that does mature content like HBO or Prime, with Marsters reprising Harry for the VO. Pull in maybe 2 more big names to do Karen and Marcone, I'm thinking Jeri Ryan and Crispin Freeman maybe, and just faithfully follow the books. They're already rather cinematic as fantasy books go.
I was at a Skin Game signing back in the day and Jim did a Q&A. I specifically asked him his thoughts on the show. He started with a long pause, "I was about to ask which one?" Which got a rise out of all of us thinking their is a new adaptation coming but he quelled these thoughts by saying, "Guys relax as my dad would say nothing is real until the check has cleared." His answer to my question was, "They did the best they could with the restrictions they had."
@@charles3840 I get what you mean. At the same time his audience didn't suffer or tank as fall out from the series and as Daniel pointed out alot of people found the books because of this show. So with the power of almost 2 decades of hinde sight he can look on it and forgive more. That being said I did a fan casting of the show a few years back and while I didn't have James Marsters play Dresden I did cast him as Bob.
I believe Fox bought the rights to it a few years back but idk if that’s true. I really hope a good show comes of it, with all characters appearing on-screen just as they are described in the books and all character flaws present too. Nothing needs to be changed, it’s perfect the way it was written!
This series has a place in my heart because it brought Dresden, Bob, and Merph to me. With all its flaws, I still love my Dresden DVD which proudly sits next to my shelves of Dresden books. Thanks for the memories. 💖
I watched this show and really liked it. Then YEARS later somehow found the first 7? books and read them... Then rediscovered that I'd already seen the show. What I'm saying is that I had the perfect storm of time and space to love both a lot.
As folks have pointed out, Jim has talked about a lot of the issues you bring up. I hadn't read the book when I watched it. The series actually led me to the books. Anton Stout and Jim talked about the incredible boost of sales they saw from the series. While it wasn't the perfect series, it made a huge impact on Jim's career.
Some Points: 1) They didn't do Storm Front as the Premiere since the effects house couldn't do the effects in time.. they return to a Stormfront inspired story later in the season. Apparently much of the season was aired out of written order. 2) Paul Blackthorn (The actor who plays Harry) physically didn't fit inside a volkswagon beetle, so a Jeep was swapped out instead. Honestly the pilot was probably the weakest episode of the season.... bonus fact: Jim Butcher makes a cameo as one of Butter's assistants later in the series.
@@TheJordanK THat's why the Blue Beetle is referred to as a clown car so often, not just the colouring, but also because Dresden probably takes up about 70% of the space inside when he drives :D Think the Tall Man in a beetle joke from the simpsons.
The only episode I remember is the _Storm Front_ adaptation, where aside from it being condensed to fit my biggest gripe was they swapped the brunette and blondes around.
As weird and poorly adapted as this story might be, it was actually my introduction to the Dresden Files. I looked at it as a supernatural CSI, which actually sounded pretty cool to me. Then I bought my sister the first book for her birthday and we watched the show together. Three months later I had read the first ten Dresden Files novels and bought the rest of the series. The books are miles ahead of the show, but it was the show that hooked me into the series.
Same with the Watch series (by Sergei Lukyanenko) for me. I saw the movie and was so fascinated by the world it built that I bought the first three books the very next week - only to learn that the movie was a really terribly watered down and inaccurate adaptation... but it was what got me hooked in the first place.
Same. I'd never heard of the books but saw an advertisement for the TV series while I was on a train in Hong Kong. Watched it and enjoyed it but when I read the books later I enjoyed them a lot more.
Same. I enjoyed the show for what it was before I knew the books. After reading the books, I could never rewatch the show. Books have gotten several re-reads though.
They actually tried the beetle but it was awkward to film in it, the actor actually being very tall (at least they got that right). So they went with a more convenient option from the same era. I think Dresden mentions the anything newer than a WW2 jeep-like car doesn't fit him, so at least they tried to be consistent while also making it convenient for themselves
I found the series decent, I actually quite like the casting as Dresden. I think he makes a great version of dresden. But there are quite a few differences from the book that I don't think was necessary.
An actual good adaptation of this series could make incredible TV, Butcher's characters really leap off the page and it's a smll enough ensemble it could work in a TV setting. Plus the quality of cheaper CG these days can actually pull off the effects with just a little love and not that much money.
It's an overall 5 if you hadn't read the books and I really enjoyed the premise. It also later on got me to pick up the books... and yes the books are better, but is a decent gateway drug to the pure beauty that the Dresden Files.
I watched this show without having read any of the books and thoroughly enjoyed it. So I went into it without any expectations. On the other hand, I read every Marvel Eternals comic book and therefore HATED the Eternals movie due to the MASSIVE deviation from the source material. So, yes, proper adaptation is extremely important.
To be fair, MCU's Eternals movie is just a straight up awful film. Marvel made the bad decision to hand the reigns of a large scale, big budget blockbuster over to the hands of amateur film makers. I haven't read the Eternals comics and I still hated the movie. It just wasn't handled well.
@@MrHoll87 Truthfully, I thought the filmmaking aspect of The Eternals was good, even beautifully filmed in some scenes. It was the script that ruined it for me and so many things that just didn't make sense. Marvel made too many changes.
@@starbrand3726 That's true, some of the shots and scenes were truly beautiful and impactful. The script is definitely the main offender, I agree with that.
I loved the show. Probably because i watched it before i read the books. I never heard of the books before i watched the show, so i am grateful that it introduced me to what would become my favorite urban fantasy series. You can watch the show without ruining the books.
@@janecreek681 Well said. I too enjoyed the series because I had nothing to compare it to. I didn't spend my time groaning about how this or that was different, or how they changed what, or how Dresden doesn't use a hockey stick as a magic staff in the books. I could just enjoy the show.
The Beetle/Jeep thing was logistics. It’s funny to imagine an NBA player driving a bug around in a book but difficult and uncomfortable in real life. Jim Butcher talked about it, I think it’s one of the changes he didn’t mind.
I think it would have been much better received if they maintained the spirit of the Blue Beetle. Like have it painted multiple colors to represent the replaced panels like the beetle in the books.
I’ve met Terrence Mann, the actor who played Bob. Really nice guy, and he tried as hard as he could with the material he was given. He’s a Broadway legend and has done a ton of theatre, originating the roles of Javert in Les Miserables, Beast in Beauty and the Beast, and Rum Tum Tugger in Cats on Broadway, but TV viewers might recognize him as another Bob, which is Bob (short for Bobert) Ballard in 30 Rock S5E16 “TGS Hayes Women”.
I thought having Bob played by a human was fine. Terrence Mann's personality is definitely different to book Bob, and I wasn't a fan of the script for him. But I liked the way he played the character. And one episode in particular, we really got to see some great acting. I found it funny that the show had an English actor playing American Dresden and an American actor putting on an English accent for Bob :)
@@abnunga I didn’t see every episode, so I missed that moment, I’m sure he did great though. The concept of Bob being a ghost of a once mortal man who is bound to a skull is interesting (the scene where he’s doing mathemagical equations by writing fire in the air is awesome) and it would go over great in a concept that wasn’t related to the Dresden universe, but it’s just not what we love about the books. The TV series of the Dresden Files got the Michael Crichton treatment. And another funny example of characters being played by opposites, in the movie Braveheart, Mad Stephen, the only Irish character, is played by a Scottish actor, whereas many of the Scottish characters are played by Irish actors.
I love that show. And yes, it has barely anything to do with the Jim Butcher books. It's like someone described several of the books to the TV writers at a loud party, while they were all somewhat tipsy, and the writers decided to recreate what they remembered a week later. And yes, none of the episode plots are particularely interesting - but I just love the characters of the show (as their own characters, independent of the Jim Butcher books). I love the dynamic between Dresden and Murphy. I love Bob. I love the bickering between Dresden and Morgan. I love Old Mai. I love his evil uncle. It's this guilty pleasures series that I put on when I am sick or depressed and just need something to hang out to. (And actually, some episodes like The Boon Identity, Bad Blood, Things That Go Bump or The Other Dick are actually really fun supernatural detective stories by themselves.)
I actually think that was perfect Dresden casting - ruggedly handsome with a sarcastic smirk at the ready. And Murphy actress gives off her energy very well - the "I can't with this shit" facial expression is spot on. I found the show first, when it aired in my country at some ungodly hour and saw enough potential that I got really excited when I found out it was based on a book series. Some years later ebook torrents became a thing and I was hooked on the series. And then international Internet shopping got realistically attainable and now I'm the proud owner of the whole series in Roc paperbacks 😂
Murphy was a BLOND and Bob was a talking skull, not a corporeal being and his staff is NOT a hockey stick. His home is a basement and his lab is a hole in the ground with a ladder leading in and out. So so much wrong with this abomination. It deserved to be cancelled. I do agree with the Harry Dresden casting. A younger James Cromwell would have been great.
The best thing about this adaptation is that it got me to read the books, because I thought the TV show was interesting, then after reading the books, I could never watch the show again.
When I was a kid I got into Percy Jackson through the movie, so that kinda supports what Daniel said about bad adaptations getting people into good content.
Yeah I was definitely one of those people who happened across the show, kinda liked it, decided to give the books a read, and absolutely fell in love with the series. Just such a rich universe, and one of my all time favourite series now :)
This was my introduction to Dresden. I actually enjoyed the campy-ness and the obvious cheap production in a its so bad its good way. It inspired me to read a series that at surface level wouldn't have appealed to me. A series i have come to love, so I will always have a soft spot for it. Hell i even have it on dvd lol!
I agree with comments stating how the TV series got them to read the books. I personally like the series for the most part. There were parts that i personally didn't care for but it got me to read the series.
I read all of them, well before the tv series. Every time a new one came out, I re-read all of them, to build up. There's a lot more to the entire storyline than could be covered in a single season of a show. The Storm Front didn't cover anywhere near it, but it was like, "Die Trying." Jim Butcher was in the second to last episode. Where are the cursed scorpions! I've done fan art for this, the Blue Beetle, vs. the Chlorofiend. "Chlorofiend? 'plant demon'" "Oh, right.. Love the dialogue. But some things can only be accomplished in literature, that aren't possible in film and television. It's just financially unfeasable, so, read! The brain's a better film director. It lets your imagination run free with all of it. The whole sequence of the denarians, that'd be a thing to see. Lash and Harry. I guess there might be a way to pull that off? But.... better to read. Just my two bits.
James Marsters is the best audiobook reader I have EVER listened to. I was trying to get into other audiobooks, but quickly realized that Marsters must have set the bar too damn high.
I only watched the first episode along with my Mom, both of us have read the whole series, and the most memorable part of the viewing was my Mom screaming out during the opening of the episode: 'Is that a hockey stick?!'.
I watched this back in high school and it’s actually what got me to pick up the books! However, I’ve refused to rewatch it since because… I just can’t. Now I don’t have to! Thanks Daniel!
I can't thank you enough for this video... When Dresden came on TV, I was excited at the concept. I liked it, okay, well, I wanted to like it but it just didn't have a sense of congruence and as is typical of television series, most episodes were 2 steps forward and 2 steps back by the end of the episode. It felt like nothing ever happened, it was a waste of time! I hadn't thought there was a book series, but now I know and I'm enthralled. I don't usually do audio books but took your suggestion on that too! I'd decided to take a brake after "Turn Coat" but the next day, I saw you talking about "Changes" in your "Top Teh Fantasy Series (2020)" and decided to charge on ahead. I'm about 1/3rd through and still in shock! Can't wait for what's to come!
I saw TV show before ever knowing about the books, was a fun experience and got me into the books so great job on that one.... Saying that I will admit it has its flaws but fun wee ride. Also I thought Paul did a great job with what was given to him.
Same here. I had never heard of the Dresden Files, but was an avid watcher of Sci-Fi channel shows. When I watched the first few episodes of this and found myself loving it, I went and bought the first few books. I am a Dresden Files fan to this day.
I started with the books when they were hot off the press... Then I parked my butt in front of the TV when the show came out. I *really* liked the casting... Harry, Murph, Bob... but damn, did I hate the flashbacks to when he was a kid.
I remember the Hype behind this coming out; it was the catalyst that pushed me from a solitary fan into being active in the Dresden fan community. My first impressions were "This isn't Dresden" at the time, but the excitement kept my glasses rose-colored for the most part. Paul Blackthorn wasn't a bad choice overall: he definitely got the Persona down (if only the writing let it shine more). I recall in one of the episodes Murph finds him beside a burned body and he said something like "I'm just hanging out with Mr. Crispy here" that nailed it so good. It's a shame everything else was not up to Par.
I like the point you make about adaptations increasing visibility of a series because that is absolutely what happened with Dresden for me. I hadn't seen the show before I started reading, but I was aware of it. And, I didn't love Storm Front, but the fact that there were 12 more books (at the time) and a TV series made me think that it got better. AND IT DID.
I remember watching this show after reading about 10 of the books, I was appalled as how bad it was. He's barely even a wizard, he's just a guy who knows a tiny bit about magical things with almost no real power. Dresden early in the books certainly wasn't powerful, but he wasn't this weak. Also, the fact that someone could just walk in his door and rip down his wards like they are just pieces of paper really bugged me for some reason, they really betrayed the way wards work in the book. Also Bob....ugh, I assume it was for budgetary purposes as animating a floating skull was probably expensive. Overall, thanks for your thoughts, and now I have to go re-read (listen) to some Dresden to forget this horrible show.
Well that's just the thing though, Bob isn't generally a floating skull in the books, he's a glowing skull that sits on a shelf most of the time. They originally just had him as a skull, like the books, and the "creative" decision was made to make him the ghost of a dead wizard instead.
i remember watching it before reading the books, and being utterly confused about everything. I liked the Harry actor, and everytime i see him now i think "harry dresden", but they really did the show dirty. I really wish they would give it a proper adaption nowadays with the modern cgi for magic, and some fancy props for Bob and other things.
Butcher mentioned in one of his talks that they basically had two options for Bob: cast a person as the spirit and only have the occasional walk-through SFX on him, or have Bob as a combination of animatronic prop sitting on a shelf and and swirly CGI lights when he came out. The second option, for TV, was deemed to be both more expensive and less interesting (having Harry talk to a puppet most of the time) ... and they got Terrance Mann to play Bob so it mostly worked out.
I watch the series BEFORE finding the books, so I didn't mind it. And it was my first Paul Blackthorn series. So I thought it was funny when Quenton Lance would rag on Oliver Queen for bucking the rules.
Honestly, I kind of liked it, even after I read the books (It got me into them). As for the balding, my poor spouse was doing *that* at 19. I've never seen him with a full head of hair; met him at 20
I knew about Dresden Files as they started coming out, but I never picked them up because I was already reading the Anita Blake books by Laurel K. Hamilton. When I got around to picking up Storm Front, I was underwhelmed because he was a less interesting Anita (to my child brain, they are similar in general at first) from the back cover descriptions I read. Eventually in college, a friend convinced me to tipsy watch Dresden Files the show so she could sway me to re-try reading the Files...I was amused by the show, I liked Bob (again, the show was my first exposure to him) and gave the books another try because of it. To be clear, I only made it 3 books into the series because it was just too similar to other urban fantasy series I knew & loved...but with a main character who had flavors of sexist jerk I didnt enjoy as a teenish girl. Eventually (after book 6), the Anita Blake books devolved into utter smut and l gave them up, but I recommend books 1-8 if you've enjoyed Dresden Files.
Damn, you're brave in recommending Anita Blake up to book 8. It got too uncomfortable to reccomend for me already by book 6. I'm saying that as I'm currently hate-reading it marathon style (book 18 now, yay!) 😂 You mentioned other similar series - mind to share them? I'm in the mood for this flavor of urban fantasy, but can't make a decision. I already know the Mercy Thompson and Blood Ties series, when it comes so similar vibes. And I violently reject Sookie Stackhouse 😋
The early Anita Blake books are REALLY good, before she went from Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter to Anita Blake: Vampire F***er. And thereafter, Anita Blake: EVERYTHING F***er (optionally multiples at the same time).
@@DrakeBarrow I _should_ have jumped off when she decided to show off how hardcore she was by chopping fingers and did leave the series when we had the book about sexually molesting children to show how bad the bad things were. By this point: Her monster hunting mentor who was introduced as a crazy extremist she was wary of talking to was a baby man who didn't have the guts to go as far as necessary. Her idealistic apprentice had gone from the innocent she was trying to protect from the world's darkness to somebody just world wise enough to get her killed and who she regularly duped to get him to do things for her. Her cop friend went from probably her best friend to her scariest foe, and the only reason they hadn't tried to destroy each other yet was because of their former friendship. The worst of that is that the supporting cast hadn't really changed, aside from maturing a bit. Blake had changed, though, from a monster hunter of the "nobody else can do it" variety to a self-righteous monster herself. At least when Harry feared he'd crossed the moral event horizon he did his best to make sure he couldn't cause any more harm.
@@boobah5643 Let's not forget her best girl friend, adored and worshiped by her fiancé, who threw regular temper tantrums over not being able to fuck other dudes. I hate how the author destroyed Ronnie. IDK maybe she gets redeemed by dying, haven't read that far.
I actually got into the Dresden Files because I looking for things similar to the Anita Blake series. It's kind of cool to hear about someone else reading that series as well as the Dresden series. I haven't come across a lot of crossover before.
Okay. So, I think it’s now Daniel’s responsibility to fix this. He needs to produce a much better version of this series. I absolutely love Dresden because of Daniel, and I honestly wish he would listen to the Audible version of the Iron Druid series and stick with it for more than the first book because just like James Marsters he improves and more fully develops a wonderful relationship with the characters he’s narrating. Seriously, I’m a big Luke Daniels fan and I’m so glad he’s who Kevin Hearne uses to voice his books. Yes, I WILL die on this hill.
It's kind of funny that when Butcher went on to include Skinwalkers in the series, they were portrayed as nigh indestructible, semi-divine beings that posed a major threat to all but the most powerful entities. And even then it was kind of a toss-up whether or not you'd win if you went toe to toe with one. Like, it's not a "They got this part wrong!" thing because Turn Coat came out years after this. But it's still amusing.
I only just now saw the first episode of the tv series. Was already caught up in the books. So when they said the very first villain was a skinwalker I was pretty surprised. Especially considering the one in the book was terrifying and overpowering to "team up with a fallen angel to break into hades" level Dresden.
This was absolutely the review I didn't know I needed. Thanks for doing it! I remember finding the series after I read the first 10 or so books, binging the entire thing, being so annoyed with how bad it was and dishonest to the source material.... and then deciding I wanted to binge it 2 more times over the next few years lol
What the show did with Bianca was the best thing about it. They really established her as an early peer level villain of Dresden. And Joanne Kelly from Warehouse 13 did wonderfully.
“Absolutely Betrays the source material.” Is my new favorite way to describe this type of “adaptation”. It’s hard to say an adaptation is an adaptation when it’s basically a skin suit.
@@alvedonaren I’ve seen too many “adaptations” which are skin suits of the characters, their names, and vague lip service to plot points to the point where you change the title you wouldn’t connect it back to the source. It is evil.
Adaptations like this are so lacking in source material, skin suit might be too strong. More like a name tag. Just look at Murphy. They didn’t even try to get her appearance right.
@@jwmcniel that’s what I was thinking the entire video. The wheel of time guy likes the WOT adaptation which is objectively unfaithful to the source material
I originally watched this show without knowing there were any novels. I wasn't bothered by anything in it too much. When I found out there were actual novels, I went straight to Barnes & Noble and bought everyone they had. I read them straight through one after the other and have been hooked ever since. Now I own all the novels hardback and paperback, plus digital copies on e-reader, plus the audio books. I also always picture Dresden looking like Paul Blackthorne, just with longer hair.
I like the show. It had great casting of Dresden and Bob. I also loved the Dresden actor on Arrow. I also like how they adapted Bob which made sense for a visual medium. But I will say that Marsters IS Dresden.
Re: Marsters tldr: he passed. He was invited to audition, and he wasn't willing to commit to moving himself/his family to where it was being shot (Canada) for the possible length of the contract. Also, again, KUDOS to Buzzy Multimedia--a small audiobook company whose premise was to create buzz about works they sold by using readers who already had fanbases from genre work. Their biggest success was having James Marsters read the first couple of Dresden books. Later, the audiobooks were produced by Random House . . .
@@DanielGreeneReviews - they got some things right with the casting. Blackthorne is tall, dark haired, and not a pretty boy. He cared about his performance. You're completely right about the script. It bugged me that they changed Murphy's name, though really, they changed the character so much that the name hardly mattered after awhile.
I got into the Dresden Files back in high school, so when the show came out, I was excited for it. I remember watching it several times with my dad, as kind of a shared thing to do on Sunday night. (Weirdly, we would later bond in a similar way over Arrow, where Paul Blackthorne was in the supporting cast.) So I definitely have a fair bit of nostalgia for the series, even if I acknowledge it's not a great representation of the books. And I think a lot of your criticisms are spot-on (the changing of the phone call section is 100% on point), but a couple of them feel weaker to me. So, to waste a bit of my day off chatting about a nostalgic show, and to give you a bit of an algorihm bump, I wanted to highlight one or two of those. For instance while it's certainly not fully in character for Harry to dismiss the kid out of hand, him hiding the full scope of the magical world from normals is pretty standard, especially for the first few books, where it's a regular strain on his and Murphy's relationship. He just tends to do so less by directly denying the supernatural, instead playing dumb or framing the truth as sarcasm. Him telling a child "I'm sure you're just imagining things, I won't take your money", especially in the opening of an early story, is pretty in-character for him. His phrasing is a little too solid in the show (like, he does acknowledge that he doesn't KNOW monsters aren't after them, and notes that "most" monsters don't exist, but he could be a little more cunning in presenting that point) and he definitely should have made some minor concession (given the kid the ward then, or promised to look into it) but the basic frame of the scene is, IMO, mostly correct. Similarly, Bob in the second scene is still pro-helping the kid: he asks if Melissa is POSITIVE nothing's up, then suggests Harry "at least" go tell the kid that he's safe. He doesn't refer to the kid as snot-nosed as an insult, but as a joke about kids in general, and as foreshadowing for the raven's feather tracking spell. And the read I get off the mom in her first scene is purely a "we are humoring the kid by giving him a "magic symbol" to calm him down", so it at least makes sense that she's confused when Harry starts treating it as real after he's kidnapped. Or like, back when I first saw the show, I instantly clocked that he was using an old-school jeep instead of the blue beetle because it fits the "magic messes with complicated electronics, so Harry drives a really old car" idea without forcing their team to build a potentially expensive prop vehicle. Yeah, it was a bit of a bummer, but SyFy was known for not being able to throw a ton of cash at their shows at the time. Still, your criticism did drive me to hunt down the episode to double-check what I remembered, and see that I had misremembered Bob and Harry's first talk about the kid, which I had remembered much more as, funnily, Bob denies it being: Bob attempting to get Harry to take the cash for an easy open-and-shut case, and a chance to flirt with the Melissa woman. (I actually thought that my point was going to be that Bob was less genuine in the first scene, meaning he fits better with his second scene, and was surprised that it was "no, Bob is just generally more of a nice guy this episode.")And overall, you're right that it's a real mess at drawing us into the world. Looking at it, it's funny to me how much better the episode would have been with like, one more pass at the script. Tweak a couple of the plot points, re-organize some of the stuff, and I think this would work pretty easy. There's some good bones to the episode (it introduces Harry, Karrin, and Bob, keeps the initial episode on a fairly small conflict, establishes that the supernatural world has good, bad, and neutral components, it even introduces an entirely new faction as something for book fans to be interested in), it's just let down by a poor implementation/structure of its components. Hell, just MOVING the call with Karrin to before Harry meets the kid, and making it Karrin calling Harry to trade getting the boot off his car for some off-the-books investigation of this new murder scene that night, would at least help structure the episode: Now we have a reason Harry doesn't want to spend a lot of time with the kid, since he has something gruesome to prepare for, that builds into "okay, I should be there for this kid", to "Oh dear, the cases are connected!"
It's been a while since I saw the show but I think that Melissa was supposed to be the show's equivalent of Ivy, The Archive, which would be terrible and thus fit with the rest of their choices.
As someone who has never read the books and saw this show by accident a few years back because it was/might still be free on one of the free TV apps on Roku, yeah, this show was a perfectly serviceable stand alone series. I liked it, and was sad it only had one season.
Idk, I think that's done a decent job so far. Yes, there are differences, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Wait to see where it goes with them. I think it's still too early to judge at this point, given how short it is. Now, Foundation, _that_ was a bad adaptation.
I have not read the WoT so I have no gripes with the adaptation part of it but as a whole I found the show barely watchable. I'd rather watch The Outpost, at least its camp and production quality seem to come from the budget and not the lack of creativity and effort.
@@olhristov If you just take the WoT show by itself... it's bad enough. As you say, "barely watchable"... if that. If you compare it against the books, it's even WORSE... a complete betrayal.
@@Nyet-Zdyes yeah. I was specifically addressing the "Totally fine show" part. I have heard almost unanimously from people that love the books or have at least read them that it is even worse for them.
So I remember watching this when it came out, and seeing the book title in the credits. Then I read the books, almost 20 years later still grateful to the show for that.
I watched the show, thought they messed it up by showing episodes out of order. Now I've read all the books and basically wait on the next one to be released. Easily my favorite series and I have many that I love.
You didn't talk about the bloody hockey stick. I watched the 1 season, it does not get better as it goes along. And Bianca turns out to be a friend and sometimes lover.
Yes, lots of issues with the show as an adaptation but it actually got me to go out and buy the first 8 books which were available at the time up through Proven Guilty. I've been hooked as a Dresden fan ever since. I actually liked Bob in the show as it provided a viewable foil for Dresden, but yes as a fan of the books I hope someone will try again and do a more faithful adaptation.
I actually started reading the Dresden Files yesterday, and I couldn't help clicking on this. I'm so glad you shied away from specific spoilers, and focused on the episode itself and large themes that were misrepresented lol. It's my fault for taking the risk of getting spoiled, but it looks like I'm lucky this time around
Literally my most fav show. US was my introduction to the supernatural genre as a whole. UK was my intro to specifically British tv. That rabbit hole led me to bbc Merlin, dr who and bunch of other classics. US will always hold a special place in my heart. Never really quite got over my love of the main four’s found family dynamic. Still searching for something like it to this day. Good comment bro. Don’t see a lot of people talk about those two shows
Perhaps the majority of viewers of The Dresden Files (2007-2008) had read the book "Storm Front" which came out in 2000. I had never heard of Jim Butcher before the show. After watching the series, without preconceived notions, I found it highly entertaining. When the show was canceled I bought "Fool Moon" got hooked on the books and became a fan. Butcher is an amazing author and I have read everything he has written. Had it not been for the TV series - I would have missed out on a fantastic writer. So cut the series some slack, it was a gateway drug into the magical world of Butcher.
And that's totally fair! Now having read the books, imagine how much better and more people would have gotten into the series if they had been extremely faithful to the books. My only problem with tv series was the amount of small but important things they changed but oh well
@@TheSmokingMustache lockwood & co was fairly faithful (had to cover 2 books in one season) and is beloved by the fanbase. Got cancelled after one season. The percy jackson tv show was so bad, it divived the fandom. Many of the fans who hated the more inaccurate movie started to appreaciate it because unless the tv show it's fun. Gets a second season. Quality does not decide the success of a show or it's influence on it's source material.
I found the TV Series before I read the books, so I was unburdened by expectations. I enjoyed the TV series, that's right I'll admit to it. That said the TV series cannot compare to the books and especially not the Audio Books read by James which is hands down my absolute favorite book series ever.
This reminds me of the Tom Ellis Lucifer show. It's a decent show (I heared) but it doesn't really have anything to do with the comic it was inspired by
On of my favorite parts of Dresden is how they handle “super natural world is a secret” trope. Cause our world would 100% not believe it for a long time. I love it Also Harry would probably drop everything to find out why the kid has 5k or how he can help him. He’s got a bit of a soft spot for kids who don’t seem to have their parents available. That’s an understatement
hey daniel, i discovered your channel a few days ago and i've been binge watching your videos actually! i'm still new to reading fantasy books (english is my second language, so before i used to read mostly non-fiction or classics but since i started reading in english i've been really enjoying fantasy). so basically i read an enchantment of ravens which is a YA fairytale-like fantasy, and then the sword of kaigen (which has become one of my favorite books ever) and then i...just went on..... and picked up the way of kings? uh- it was all great, that was before i stumbled upon your video and learned that this 1000 page-long book.... is a part of a series with other 1000 page-long books. i mean- 169 pages in and i'm loving it so far but it has also been the source of my depression. (please kaladin deserves the worlds why must they do this to him?) but i was wondering if you had like- any standalone fantasy recommendations? maybe you could make a video about standalone fantasy book recommendations. :) and your content is great, keep up the good work. :)
I was a big fan of the book series and was so excited to see it get an adaptation. I saw the first episode and never watched another one. There just seemed to be nothing that connected the books to the show: no trench coat, hat, staff, blue beetle, Bob, etc. I read later why a few of those things didn't happen, but at the time, I was completely baffled at how they got the simplest things wrong.
I remember you saying in your One Piece and Berserk reviews you really like manipulator/ master-mind antagonists, so I recommend you to check "Monster" by Urasawa Naoki if you haven't. I'm reading it right now for the first time and it's pretty good so far.
Taking the skinwalker, the most horrific, vile, and malice-filled creature from the entire series that completely outclassed Dresden so much that he got literal mental trauma from just LOOKING at it for a split second, and turning it into a budget-Supernatural normal looking person monster-of-the-week that gets defeated with a random trinket is just so dumb it's actually impressive of how wasteful of potential it is.
I watched the series knowing nothing of how it is in the books. I genuinely enjoyed it and wish there would be more. I do read books now so I can clearly see the difference, but I still love series as well
I've never seen this but I'll check it out now just because the lead actor plays Laurel and Sara Lance's dad in Arrow, and I can't not see him in that role😂
Thanks for saving me from this show. I was looking up interesting series with Fae in it, and had dresden files on my list, and just hearing how awful the start is and terrible writing and direction of that first episode, just gosh, thank you. I'll just have to pick up the books or audiobooks if I want to get into
Yeah, it's just as well since they never even got around to introducing the fae in the DF TV series. They threw so much of the books' terrific worldbuilding out the window, it's sad.
So the show itself isn't bad if you disconnect yourself from the books. If you expect it to be true to the books you will be horribly unsatisfied. Also, the fae really don't have a presence in the show.
My wife was a big fan of these books! She was reading them to me for awhile, but we kind of fell out of the series before I got very far into it. We listened to review of this together and it really rekindled our interest in the books, so we're probably going to give them another go here soon (especially since one of my biggest complaints was the 'milady-ness' of the first few books, and I'm glad to hear it gets less egregious over time). Thanks for the review!
Ok, I have a confession to make. I liked the series. Not at first but when I changed my attitude from "this is a dresden adaptation" to "this is a urban fantasy flick". But I have also never analyzed is at hard as Daniel so many flaws went unnoticed.
My brother has been trying to get me to read the Dresden files for a while now but I wasn't interested. I heard about Bob the skull and a wizard TRYING to be public in this video and now I'm interested.
They wanted to start the show before storm front, to my understanding, because they wanted to have someone freedom to grow into the stormfront Dresden and beyond. TV used to have diff expectations. Have to have Bob as a person because a skull with flickering lights is “boring to watch”
I watched the show years ago (and I watched it again last week) but I am about to start reading the books for the first time because of the show. Looking forward to learning about all the characters.
Wheel of Time is THE perfect example of how not to adapt a series. Nothing else will ever come close to the complete and utter disaster of when the Dark One won the last battle. The TV show is what happens when the Dark One remakes the Wheel.
I discovered the show before the books, and on my first watch through I completed the series and enjoyed the show enough to pick up the first book. Of course now that I am in deep with the novels I went back to watch the show again and I just couldn’t… it’s so bad in comparison.
I saw the show before I started the books. Honestly, I think the show being on SyFy made it doomed before it started. Sci-fi channel shows lean into the campy tropes that nobody likes. I think the only show on that channel that was more or less universally liked by everyone was Warehouse 13, but camp works for that kind of show. The Dresden Files show was trying to be serious while keeping that level of camp, and it didn't work.
@@MichaelAlthauser Fair enough, I hadn't seen enough of Eureka to have an opinion of it. Wasn't it also a loose spin-off of Warehouse 13? I think I recall seeing characters on both shows make guest appearances on the other.
I have a soft spot for the Dresden Files TV Show. It was my introduction to Dresden as a whole. A friend of mine had been trying to get me to read the books, but I hadn't yet. Then I saw the show a figured I'd give the books a chance. It was a step up. So even though it wasn't what the books were, it brought me to the series and to Jim Butcher, who ended up being one of my all time favorite authors.
I picked up the first book of the series at my local library after hearing so much praise for the series in a lot of videos on this channel. I had been warned of how women are described in this book. I thought it would be fine as long as the rest of the story was good. Still, Dresden's view of women threw me completely. I didn't make it past twelve pages before I had to pause as the misogyny was hitting me hard. By page 30 I put the book down and I probably won't pick it back up. The promise that it gets better when you've gotten past book six, but that it is still prevalent, is not enough for me. It might be a series that I would love for a lot of other things. But it would not be worth it as I would be constantly boiling with rage and frustration over the misogyny. There are so many other books and series out there that won't make me feel this way and I will be better off without reading Dresden files. I understand that everyone's experience with a novel will be different and I don't want to take away from anyone else's experience. To the people who love the series - good for you. From what i heard the series has a lot to offer. I'm just not the right audience and that's okay.
If you ever do want to give it another go, I’d honestly recommend starting from book 3. The first two books are the weakest entries (in most people’s opinions) and nothing* super important happens in them. And starting on book 3 will skip most of what I think you dislike.
The 8th episode is the Storm Front one and it’s easily the best in the series, BUT it suffers from the exact things you say. The choices are just so weird and plot convenient. Many of the changes that frustrate fans are just so unnecessary and almost seem to be designed to make sure that fans know there will not be a fun book tie in later.
This and WOT are my most favourite fantasy series and both of them got a shitty adaptation. And in both cases it was because you had writers who thought they could do better than the original author. And I refuse to see either as more true than your average fanfic. Dresden Files has one excuse the current adaptations don't have. It just came too early. Dresden Files was made in the vein of the Buffys and Angels, before serialized long form storytelling was the main stream.The Dresden Files books are perfect for modern adaptations. 6 to 8 episodes around 40 minutes or so would have been the perfect length to cover one book. If it was made today it may have actually turned out quite good.
I watched most of the tv show after reading the books. It definitely had the fingerprints of the era it come out in. Buffy, Angel, Charmed obviously had a massive influence on the writers/directors.
I only saw the Dresden Files show recently, but I found it really interesting. I wish it had kept going. It was bad, but like... in a way that I kept wanting to see what it was doing. It definitely did a LOT of things that I absolutely hate. It leaned more heavily on the "magic is real but it's secret" side of Dresden that I think is one of the books weakest aspects. I HATE that trope in fiction. It's completely nonsensical. If magic were real, there would be no way of keeping it secret. The line about "people ignore what they don't understand" is bullshit made up by people who sell magic healing crystals and need a line to explain to gullible people why their doctor doesn't know shiny rocks cure cancer. It's fiction. There's no reason to have magic be secret in it. No one is going to be stupid enough to think this shit is actually happening in the real world. You aren't making people suspend disbelief by saying "on top of the laws of physics being different, also human nature is different in my story."
yeah i fucking hate it when books or movies make the science and reason guy the dismissive idiot and the batshit crazy conspiracy nuts to be the real reasonable one.
I never saw the show but watching this I'm very glad I didn't 😂...thanks for the fun breakdown here...your Dresden content is the only reason I bothered reading the series, as this brief attempt at a TV series was the only time I'd ever even heard of it and I knew the show failed so had no reason to look further...you're doing Jim Butcher and Harry Dresden a service 🙏
As a hardcore Dresden' fan, I do genuinely recommend watching the rest of the series. You're right, it does have a lot of issues, and in a lot of respects, doesn't faithfully adapt the story/ies; but there are great nuggets to be found in it. I actually DO love the show, despite all that. Not out of blind fandom, but because I was entertained by it, I liked some (not all, just some) of directions they take, and the interesting differences that came with it, and I do wish the show had continued beyond the first season. Maybe it's just a guilty pleasure for me, I couldn't say for sure, but probably both. But if this episode really did bother you as much as it seemed to, and you have zero desire to even give the rest of it a chance, that's perfectly understandable, because I 100% get why most of the fans of the books did not enjoy it at all. (I just think it's not quite as bad as most say, and I think you did see the effort that was put into it, even though the production and writing was hamstrung by the sudden additional producer and all the interfering they did to it.) Hell, I'd love to personally discuss the show with you if you were ever up for that; because I feel like I'm the only fan who loves the show haha.
Was it a horrible show? No. Was it a bad adaptation? Yes. Also the casting of Dresden is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. This guy is a decent Dresden.
I watched the show as a kid before ever starting the books, and I remember enjoying it a decent amount. Definitely not anything like the books though 😂
Most of the badness comes directly from infighting within the corporate structure of the studio. According to Jim himself (he's talked about it before) the show was supposed to start with Storm Front and have an interconnected story for the entire season. New Powers That Be at the channel decided since it wasn't their baby, they would nuke it. They told the showrunner to get rid of all the connective tissue, mix up the episode order and make them all stand alone. So it didn't have a chance because of ego and power plays.
I watched it a long time ago but I didn't like it because it was so different from the books.
It was this show that made want to read the books. I agree that the show could have been closer to the books and, thus better. It's Dresden Files filtered through television cliche.
I watched the show before I knew the books existed, and thought it was pretty OK. Then I read the books and felt sorry for Jim Butcher, because the show discarded virtually every important feature of the books. It wasn't as malicious and evil as what a studio did to LeGuin* but it was still horrible.
*On this subject, when studios are poking around looking for a great book series to turn into a TV show or a few movies, I bothers me that no one says Earthsea. Here is an epic fantasy adventure that was actually maliciously whitewashed and the author flagrantly disrespected, which could scratch that "we need people of color for diversity" itch, and no one is mobbing the studios waving protest signs with the book cover art on them. Such a missed opportunity.
So Jim actually explained the reason the show used a Jeep instead of a VW Beetle is because it’s incredibly difficult to fit actors, cameras, props, lighting, sound equipment, and anything else required into a small car like the Beetle. So they asked Jim if a WWII Jeep would work, Jim gave his blessing, so we have the Jeep. Hope that clears some stuff up!
Sensible answer
Also in film tests when Dresden would get out of the car, it looks like a clown car because the actor was so tall.
@@jeffreyhancock4096 Yes.. But, that fits! The camera is a good reason.. The clown car appearance was no excuse.. it was cannon!
@@jeffreyhancock4096 That's exactly what Jim was going for, though. Some people call it a clown car in the book series.
@@jeffreyhancock4096 but that's the whole point!
There are videos on UA-cam of Butcher discussing this adaptation, what he was cool with and what went on behind the scenes. As I recall, the initial show runner was a fan and wanted to do one book per season, or cover two books per season making the show serialized in format. A new executive came onboard at Syfy, one that did not get Science Fiction or Fantasy as genres, and fired the showrunner, then replaced him with the showrunner from Charmed. The new showrunner opted to make each episode unconnected to the next, because conventional industry wisdom states that makes it easier to put into syndication (the episodes can be run out of order as need be), rewrote the scripts and characters, and the nightmare unfolds. I also seem to remember that Butcher liked how they did Bob (at least the casting of Terrance Mann), and the much maligned Valerie Cruz was the only one who read the books and asked him for input.
I agree. I'm now 11 books in and I could see Terrance Mann as sort of the ghost of bob. He definitely has that acerbic wit down pat.
@@greencertifiedweb That I heard Terrance Mann as Bob’s voice in my head after watching the show - I have no issue with that. Some fan objections to Paul Blackthorne were ridiculous. He might not be 7 feet tall - but how many viable lead actors are? And, yes, he was balding - but he didn’t wear a hat! And, as a Canadian, I can’t help but approve of the hockey stick as a wizard’s staff. 🤷🏼
@@magnusskallagrimsson6707 I liked Blackthorne as Dresden. I don't picture him when I'm reading, I picture more of a Fox Molder in a long leather coat :) But I think if he'd been handed the real material, he would have carried it off well! He had the subtle asshole part down.
The only one to read the books and ask for input?! Jeebas. That's... excuse me, I might need to go vomit.
Thanks that explains a lot
as a Constantine fanboy and someone about to start the Dresden series myself, finding out there was a mediocre, early 2000s adaptation delights me greatly 😂 no irony intended. Obscure adaptations are too often a flag for great source material
Are you talking about Keanu Reeves Constantine? Cuz it was not a bad movie in my opinion.
@@Veles_Ra I just meant the comic Constantine in general. People have told me Dresden is very similar, which is awesome. I liked the movie too - bit of a different, more broody version of the character, but I dig it
Would love a Dresden/Constantine crossover.
Dresden Files is my favorite literary world. Listen to audio if you can - I agree with Daniel and the rest of the fan base that it's the best way to experience them. Also, the first 2 books are the weakest of the series, so if you have a lackluster reaction, don't give up. Butcher was a college kid when he started writing the series. The series and the narration grow in quality and scope.
Late 2000s (2007)
I only imagine James Marsters whenever I think of Harry Dresden, because of the audiobooks. He captures the character damn near perfectly. They could've done an animated series, and he'd be perfect for the role.
Me too. He is Harry in my imagination now.
An anime style adaption might be the best medium for the Dresden files...
I started listening to the Dresden audiobooks only after watching Marvel's Runaways, so I imagine Marsters as Johnny Marcone. This show's actresses for Susan and Murphy are flipped. Bob was great, imo. And for Harry, I imagine Noah Wyle because of how similar his character is in The Librarian movies.
Every time Bob talks when I’m reading the books, I hear Salem the cat’s voice from Sabrina the teenage witch. This makes him the best character in the books.
Harry Dresden would be too hard to do with live actors unless you want to swap out Harry's like James Bonds or Batmans.
So the show actually did film Storm Front as the pilot, but Syfy didn’t air it first, instead putting it midway through the season, and it really ruined the flow of the show, even for me when I was younger watching it and hadn’t read the books.
🖖🖖🖖🖖
Tbh the first few books were made when he first started writing. Even Jim butcher says the books get better after the first two. Wouldn't be surprised if they skipped because of that
You can really tell that JB was still figuring things out when he wrote Storm Front - sweeping up magic scorpions with an enchanted broom really doesn’t fit the rest of the series. If Dresden Files ever gets another try at an adaptation I’d be happy for that book to be skipped or heavily altered.
Dead Beat I’d want done faithfully as a film though.
@@Edramon53 Dead Beat is when the Dresden Files went from a fun book series I casually read into an obsession for me
Yes, and Bob character is presented as the scull there (as far as I remember). It was about an one hour film.
I'd really love to see another crack at adapting Dresden for TV. I'm picturing an animated streaming series on one of the more well-funded services that does mature content like HBO or Prime, with Marsters reprising Harry for the VO. Pull in maybe 2 more big names to do Karen and Marcone, I'm thinking Jeri Ryan and Crispin Freeman maybe, and just faithfully follow the books. They're already rather cinematic as fantasy books go.
Fox optioned the show and they were working stuff out when Disney bought fox no updates since then
I was at a Skin Game signing back in the day and Jim did a Q&A. I specifically asked him his thoughts on the show. He started with a long pause, "I was about to ask which one?" Which got a rise out of all of us thinking their is a new adaptation coming but he quelled these thoughts by saying, "Guys relax as my dad would say nothing is real until the check has cleared." His answer to my question was, "They did the best they could with the restrictions they had."
You can tell when an author's work is very close to being optioned when they clam up and are forgiving towards the Hollywood machine.
@@charles3840 I get what you mean. At the same time his audience didn't suffer or tank as fall out from the series and as Daniel pointed out alot of people found the books because of this show. So with the power of almost 2 decades of hinde sight he can look on it and forgive more. That being said I did a fan casting of the show a few years back and while I didn't have James Marsters play Dresden I did cast him as Bob.
I believe Fox bought the rights to it a few years back but idk if that’s true. I really hope a good show comes of it, with all characters appearing on-screen just as they are described in the books and all character flaws present too. Nothing needs to be changed, it’s perfect the way it was written!
I met my wife at the skin game signing in Oregon lol.
@@Ellesdy1 yeah, let's end wokeness! Let's all drink choccy milk and take nappies, instead!!
... I should go to sleep. It's 1am here lol
This series has a place in my heart because it brought Dresden, Bob, and Merph to me. With all its flaws, I still love my Dresden DVD which proudly sits next to my shelves of Dresden books. Thanks for the memories. 💖
I watched this show and really liked it. Then YEARS later somehow found the first 7? books and read them... Then rediscovered that I'd already seen the show.
What I'm saying is that I had the perfect storm of time and space to love both a lot.
Exactly the same for me. I found it saw in the credits that it was based on the book and have been hooked
As folks have pointed out, Jim has talked about a lot of the issues you bring up. I hadn't read the book when I watched it. The series actually led me to the books.
Anton Stout and Jim talked about the incredible boost of sales they saw from the series. While it wasn't the perfect series, it made a huge impact on Jim's career.
Yea, i just imagine how much larger that impact would have been if they had done a good and faithful adaptation
Some Points: 1) They didn't do Storm Front as the Premiere since the effects house couldn't do the effects in time.. they return to a Stormfront inspired story later in the season. Apparently much of the season was aired out of written order. 2) Paul Blackthorn (The actor who plays Harry) physically didn't fit inside a volkswagon beetle, so a Jeep was swapped out instead.
Honestly the pilot was probably the weakest episode of the season.... bonus fact: Jim Butcher makes a cameo as one of Butter's assistants later in the series.
Wait that’s funny. I never thought of that. Harry probably shouldn’t have a beetle how does he fit in it lol he’s taller than the actor
@@TheJordanK THat's why the Blue Beetle is referred to as a clown car so often, not just the colouring, but also because Dresden probably takes up about 70% of the space inside when he drives :D Think the Tall Man in a beetle joke from the simpsons.
YEAAAH i forgot Jim made a cameo. Hell i was surprised Butters was in the show at all when i went to watch it last year
The only episode I remember is the _Storm Front_ adaptation, where aside from it being condensed to fit my biggest gripe was they swapped the brunette and blondes around.
As weird and poorly adapted as this story might be, it was actually my introduction to the Dresden Files. I looked at it as a supernatural CSI, which actually sounded pretty cool to me. Then I bought my sister the first book for her birthday and we watched the show together. Three months later I had read the first ten Dresden Files novels and bought the rest of the series. The books are miles ahead of the show, but it was the show that hooked me into the series.
Same with the Watch series (by Sergei Lukyanenko) for me. I saw the movie and was so fascinated by the world it built that I bought the first three books the very next week - only to learn that the movie was a really terribly watered down and inaccurate adaptation... but it was what got me hooked in the first place.
This is also how I found the books.
Same. I'd never heard of the books but saw an advertisement for the TV series while I was on a train in Hong Kong. Watched it and enjoyed it but when I read the books later I enjoyed them a lot more.
Same. I enjoyed the show for what it was before I knew the books. After reading the books, I could never rewatch the show. Books have gotten several re-reads though.
I liked how he carried around a hockey stick as his wizard's staff, that was a cool addition.
They actually tried the beetle but it was awkward to film in it, the actor actually being very tall (at least they got that right). So they went with a more convenient option from the same era. I think Dresden mentions the anything newer than a WW2 jeep-like car doesn't fit him, so at least they tried to be consistent while also making it convenient for themselves
I found the series decent, I actually quite like the casting as Dresden. I think he makes a great version of dresden. But there are quite a few differences from the book that I don't think was necessary.
An actual good adaptation of this series could make incredible TV, Butcher's characters really leap off the page and it's a smll enough ensemble it could work in a TV setting. Plus the quality of cheaper CG these days can actually pull off the effects with just a little love and not that much money.
It's a horrible adaption. If it was even a little bit more accurate the monster of the week thing could have worked but my god this was just bad
@@calencummins7466 they're trying to say that a good adaptation could be made, not that this one was a good adaptation
It's an overall 5 if you hadn't read the books and I really enjoyed the premise.
It also later on got me to pick up the books... and yes the books are better, but is a decent gateway drug to the pure beauty that the Dresden Files.
I watched this show without having read any of the books and thoroughly enjoyed it. So I went into it without any expectations. On the other hand, I read every Marvel Eternals comic book and therefore HATED the Eternals movie due to the MASSIVE deviation from the source material. So, yes, proper adaptation is extremely important.
To be fair, MCU's Eternals movie is just a straight up awful film. Marvel made the bad decision to hand the reigns of a large scale, big budget blockbuster over to the hands of amateur film makers. I haven't read the Eternals comics and I still hated the movie. It just wasn't handled well.
@@MrHoll87 Truthfully, I thought the filmmaking aspect of The Eternals was good, even beautifully filmed in some scenes. It was the script that ruined it for me and so many things that just didn't make sense. Marvel made too many changes.
@@starbrand3726 That's true, some of the shots and scenes were truly beautiful and impactful. The script is definitely the main offender, I agree with that.
I loved the show. Probably because i watched it before i read the books. I never heard of the books before i watched the show, so i am grateful that it introduced me to what would become my favorite urban fantasy series. You can watch the show without ruining the books.
@@janecreek681 Well said. I too enjoyed the series because I had nothing to compare it to. I didn't spend my time groaning about how this or that was different, or how they changed what, or how Dresden doesn't use a hockey stick as a magic staff in the books. I could just enjoy the show.
The Beetle/Jeep thing was logistics. It’s funny to imagine an NBA player driving a bug around in a book but difficult and uncomfortable in real life. Jim Butcher talked about it, I think it’s one of the changes he didn’t mind.
Shaq has a vehicle that I would bet money he couldn't fit in if I hadn't seen him do it first.
I think it would have been much better received if they maintained the spirit of the Blue Beetle. Like have it painted multiple colors to represent the replaced panels like the beetle in the books.
Dresden is supposed to be a really tall guy and he had problems fitting inside the bug in the books, but it runs so he keeps with it.
An older Jeep also meets the requirement that there are not too many electronics, which would just blow around Harry.
I’ve met Terrence Mann, the actor who played Bob. Really nice guy, and he tried as hard as he could with the material he was given. He’s a Broadway legend and has done a ton of theatre, originating the roles of Javert in Les Miserables, Beast in Beauty and the Beast, and Rum Tum Tugger in Cats on Broadway, but TV viewers might recognize him as another Bob, which is Bob (short for Bobert) Ballard in 30 Rock S5E16 “TGS Hayes Women”.
I thought having Bob played by a human was fine. Terrence Mann's personality is definitely different to book Bob, and I wasn't a fan of the script for him. But I liked the way he played the character. And one episode in particular, we really got to see some great acting.
I found it funny that the show had an English actor playing American Dresden and an American actor putting on an English accent for Bob :)
@@abnunga I didn’t see every episode, so I missed that moment, I’m sure he did great though. The concept of Bob being a ghost of a once mortal man who is bound to a skull is interesting (the scene where he’s doing mathemagical equations by writing fire in the air is awesome) and it would go over great in a concept that wasn’t related to the Dresden universe, but it’s just not what we love about the books. The TV series of the Dresden Files got the Michael Crichton treatment.
And another funny example of characters being played by opposites, in the movie Braveheart, Mad Stephen, the only Irish character, is played by a Scottish actor, whereas many of the Scottish characters are played by Irish actors.
I've met him too! I actually was in a concert with him when I was in graduate school. Really great guy, as you say.
I actually liked him as Bob. That was one of the better castings for the show.
Every Dresden book when I read Bob I visualize Mr Mann
I love that show. And yes, it has barely anything to do with the Jim Butcher books. It's like someone described several of the books to the TV writers at a loud party, while they were all somewhat tipsy, and the writers decided to recreate what they remembered a week later. And yes, none of the episode plots are particularely interesting - but I just love the characters of the show (as their own characters, independent of the Jim Butcher books). I love the dynamic between Dresden and Murphy. I love Bob. I love the bickering between Dresden and Morgan. I love Old Mai. I love his evil uncle. It's this guilty pleasures series that I put on when I am sick or depressed and just need something to hang out to. (And actually, some episodes like The Boon Identity, Bad Blood, Things That Go Bump or The Other Dick are actually really fun supernatural detective stories by themselves.)
I actually think that was perfect Dresden casting - ruggedly handsome with a sarcastic smirk at the ready. And Murphy actress gives off her energy very well - the "I can't with this shit" facial expression is spot on.
I found the show first, when it aired in my country at some ungodly hour and saw enough potential that I got really excited when I found out it was based on a book series. Some years later ebook torrents became a thing and I was hooked on the series. And then international Internet shopping got realistically attainable and now I'm the proud owner of the whole series in Roc paperbacks 😂
Dresden was pretty decent casting.
The probs came up w mucking about w the storyline and other characters.
Murphy was a BLOND and Bob was a talking skull, not a corporeal being and his staff is NOT a hockey stick. His home is a basement and his lab is a hole in the ground with a ladder leading in and out.
So so much wrong with this abomination. It deserved to be cancelled.
I do agree with the Harry Dresden casting. A younger James Cromwell would have been great.
The best thing about this adaptation is that it got me to read the books, because I thought the TV show was interesting, then after reading the books, I could never watch the show again.
When I was a kid I got into Percy Jackson through the movie, so that kinda supports what Daniel said about bad adaptations getting people into good content.
Yeah I was definitely one of those people who happened across the show, kinda liked it, decided to give the books a read, and absolutely fell in love with the series. Just such a rich universe, and one of my all time favourite series now :)
This was my introduction to Dresden. I actually enjoyed the campy-ness and the obvious cheap production in a its so bad its good way. It inspired me to read a series that at surface level wouldn't have appealed to me. A series i have come to love, so I will always have a soft spot for it. Hell i even have it on dvd lol!
I agree with comments stating how the TV series got them to read the books. I personally like the series for the most part. There were parts that i personally didn't care for but it got me to read the series.
I have it in my Amazon cart 😁
that makes two of us. I found out there were books. "Books? there are books! Must have ... "
This was me as well.
I read all of them, well before the tv series. Every time a new one came out, I re-read all of them, to build up.
There's a lot more to the entire storyline than could be covered in a single season of a show.
The Storm Front didn't cover anywhere near it, but it was like, "Die Trying." Jim Butcher was in the second to last episode. Where are the cursed scorpions!
I've done fan art for this, the Blue Beetle, vs. the Chlorofiend. "Chlorofiend? 'plant demon'" "Oh, right.. Love the dialogue. But some things can only be accomplished in literature, that aren't possible in film and television. It's just financially unfeasable, so, read! The brain's a better film director. It lets your imagination run free with all of it.
The whole sequence of the denarians, that'd be a thing to see. Lash and Harry. I guess there might be a way to pull that off? But.... better to read. Just my two bits.
James Marsters is the best audiobook reader I have EVER listened to. I was trying to get into other audiobooks, but quickly realized that Marsters must have set the bar too damn high.
I only watched the first episode along with my Mom, both of us have read the whole series, and the most memorable part of the viewing was my Mom screaming out during the opening of the episode: 'Is that a hockey stick?!'.
your review of this thing finally made me buy the first 3 books on audible. so thanks for that.
I watched this back in high school and it’s actually what got me to pick up the books! However, I’ve refused to rewatch it since because… I just can’t. Now I don’t have to! Thanks Daniel!
I can't thank you enough for this video...
When Dresden came on TV, I was excited at the concept. I liked it, okay, well, I wanted to like it but it just didn't have a sense of congruence and as is typical of television series, most episodes were 2 steps forward and 2 steps back by the end of the episode. It felt like nothing ever happened, it was a waste of time!
I hadn't thought there was a book series, but now I know and I'm enthralled. I don't usually do audio books but took your suggestion on that too! I'd decided to take a brake after "Turn Coat" but the next day, I saw you talking about "Changes" in your "Top Teh Fantasy Series (2020)" and decided to charge on ahead. I'm about 1/3rd through and still in shock! Can't wait for what's to come!
I saw TV show before ever knowing about the books, was a fun experience and got me into the books so great job on that one.... Saying that I will admit it has its flaws but fun wee ride.
Also I thought Paul did a great job with what was given to him.
Same here. I had never heard of the Dresden Files, but was an avid watcher of Sci-Fi channel shows. When I watched the first few episodes of this and found myself loving it, I went and bought the first few books. I am a Dresden Files fan to this day.
Same
Me as well! That's funny
I started with the books when they were hot off the press...
Then I parked my butt in front of the TV when the show came out.
I *really* liked the casting... Harry, Murph, Bob...
but damn, did I hate the flashbacks to when he was a kid.
I remember the Hype behind this coming out; it was the catalyst that pushed me from a solitary fan into being active in the Dresden fan community. My first impressions were "This isn't Dresden" at the time, but the excitement kept my glasses rose-colored for the most part.
Paul Blackthorn wasn't a bad choice overall: he definitely got the Persona down (if only the writing let it shine more). I recall in one of the episodes Murph finds him beside a burned body and he said something like "I'm just hanging out with Mr. Crispy here" that nailed it so good. It's a shame everything else was not up to Par.
I like the point you make about adaptations increasing visibility of a series because that is absolutely what happened with Dresden for me. I hadn't seen the show before I started reading, but I was aware of it. And, I didn't love Storm Front, but the fact that there were 12 more books (at the time) and a TV series made me think that it got better. AND IT DID.
I remember watching this show after reading about 10 of the books, I was appalled as how bad it was. He's barely even a wizard, he's just a guy who knows a tiny bit about magical things with almost no real power. Dresden early in the books certainly wasn't powerful, but he wasn't this weak. Also, the fact that someone could just walk in his door and rip down his wards like they are just pieces of paper really bugged me for some reason, they really betrayed the way wards work in the book. Also Bob....ugh, I assume it was for budgetary purposes as animating a floating skull was probably expensive.
Overall, thanks for your thoughts, and now I have to go re-read (listen) to some Dresden to forget this horrible show.
Well that's just the thing though, Bob isn't generally a floating skull in the books, he's a glowing skull that sits on a shelf most of the time. They originally just had him as a skull, like the books, and the "creative" decision was made to make him the ghost of a dead wizard instead.
i remember watching it before reading the books, and being utterly confused about everything. I liked the Harry actor, and everytime i see him now i think "harry dresden", but they really did the show dirty.
I really wish they would give it a proper adaption nowadays with the modern cgi for magic, and some fancy props for Bob and other things.
Butcher mentioned in one of his talks that they basically had two options for Bob: cast a person as the spirit and only have the occasional walk-through SFX on him, or have Bob as a combination of animatronic prop sitting on a shelf and and swirly CGI lights when he came out. The second option, for TV, was deemed to be both more expensive and less interesting (having Harry talk to a puppet most of the time) ... and they got Terrance Mann to play Bob so it mostly worked out.
But that's EXACTLY what the toad demon DID. Charged up its energy, and barged right through Harry's wards.
I watch the series BEFORE finding the books, so I didn't mind it. And it was my first Paul Blackthorn series. So I thought it was funny when Quenton Lance would rag on Oliver Queen for bucking the rules.
Honestly, I kind of liked it, even after I read the books (It got me into them).
As for the balding, my poor spouse was doing *that* at 19. I've never seen him with a full head of hair; met him at 20
Mine started to recede in my mid 20s. Ten years later and I've got a big bald spot and about a third of my beard is grey.
my best friend's brother started balding at 15. That and his freakish hight got him mocked a lot in school. 4th grade at 6ft. is not a good sight.
I knew about Dresden Files as they started coming out, but I never picked them up because I was already reading the Anita Blake books by Laurel K. Hamilton. When I got around to picking up Storm Front, I was underwhelmed because he was a less interesting Anita (to my child brain, they are similar in general at first) from the back cover descriptions I read.
Eventually in college, a friend convinced me to tipsy watch Dresden Files the show so she could sway me to re-try reading the Files...I was amused by the show, I liked Bob (again, the show was my first exposure to him) and gave the books another try because of it.
To be clear, I only made it 3 books into the series because it was just too similar to other urban fantasy series I knew & loved...but with a main character who had flavors of sexist jerk I didnt enjoy as a teenish girl.
Eventually (after book 6), the Anita Blake books devolved into utter smut and l gave them up, but I recommend books 1-8 if you've enjoyed Dresden Files.
Damn, you're brave in recommending Anita Blake up to book 8. It got too uncomfortable to reccomend for me already by book 6. I'm saying that as I'm currently hate-reading it marathon style (book 18 now, yay!) 😂
You mentioned other similar series - mind to share them? I'm in the mood for this flavor of urban fantasy, but can't make a decision. I already know the Mercy Thompson and Blood Ties series, when it comes so similar vibes. And I violently reject Sookie Stackhouse 😋
The early Anita Blake books are REALLY good, before she went from Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter to Anita Blake: Vampire F***er. And thereafter, Anita Blake: EVERYTHING F***er (optionally multiples at the same time).
@@DrakeBarrow I _should_ have jumped off when she decided to show off how hardcore she was by chopping fingers and did leave the series when we had the book about sexually molesting children to show how bad the bad things were.
By this point:
Her monster hunting mentor who was introduced as a crazy extremist she was wary of talking to was a baby man who didn't have the guts to go as far as necessary.
Her idealistic apprentice had gone from the innocent she was trying to protect from the world's darkness to somebody just world wise enough to get her killed and who she regularly duped to get him to do things for her.
Her cop friend went from probably her best friend to her scariest foe, and the only reason they hadn't tried to destroy each other yet was because of their former friendship.
The worst of that is that the supporting cast hadn't really changed, aside from maturing a bit. Blake had changed, though, from a monster hunter of the "nobody else can do it" variety to a self-righteous monster herself.
At least when Harry feared he'd crossed the moral event horizon he did his best to make sure he couldn't cause any more harm.
@@boobah5643 Let's not forget her best girl friend, adored and worshiped by her fiancé, who threw regular temper tantrums over not being able to fuck other dudes. I hate how the author destroyed Ronnie. IDK maybe she gets redeemed by dying, haven't read that far.
I actually got into the Dresden Files because I looking for things similar to the Anita Blake series. It's kind of cool to hear about someone else reading that series as well as the Dresden series. I haven't come across a lot of crossover before.
Okay. So, I think it’s now Daniel’s responsibility to fix this. He needs to produce a much better version of this series. I absolutely love Dresden because of Daniel, and I honestly wish he would listen to the Audible version of the Iron Druid series and stick with it for more than the first book because just like James Marsters he improves and more fully develops a wonderful relationship with the characters he’s narrating. Seriously, I’m a big Luke Daniels fan and I’m so glad he’s who Kevin Hearne uses to voice his books.
Yes, I WILL die on this hill.
Same
It's kind of funny that when Butcher went on to include Skinwalkers in the series, they were portrayed as nigh indestructible, semi-divine beings that posed a major threat to all but the most powerful entities. And even then it was kind of a toss-up whether or not you'd win if you went toe to toe with one. Like, it's not a "They got this part wrong!" thing because Turn Coat came out years after this. But it's still amusing.
I only just now saw the first episode of the tv series.
Was already caught up in the books.
So when they said the very first villain was a skinwalker I was pretty surprised.
Especially considering the one in the book was terrifying and overpowering to "team up with a fallen angel to break into hades" level Dresden.
This was absolutely the review I didn't know I needed. Thanks for doing it!
I remember finding the series after I read the first 10 or so books, binging the entire thing, being so annoyed with how bad it was and dishonest to the source material.... and then deciding I wanted to binge it 2 more times over the next few years lol
What the show did with Bianca was the best thing about it. They really established her as an early peer level villain of Dresden. And Joanne Kelly from Warehouse 13 did wonderfully.
“Absolutely Betrays the source material.” Is my new favorite way to describe this type of “adaptation”. It’s hard to say an adaptation is an adaptation when it’s basically a skin suit.
Skin suit, eh? Now that's a fitting analogy, considering the pilot.
@@alvedonaren I’ve seen too many “adaptations” which are skin suits of the characters, their names, and vague lip service to plot points to the point where you change the title you wouldn’t connect it back to the source. It is evil.
and yet Daniel liked the WOT adaption? SMH
Adaptations like this are so lacking in source material, skin suit might be too strong. More like a name tag. Just look at Murphy. They didn’t even try to get her appearance right.
@@jwmcniel that’s what I was thinking the entire video. The wheel of time guy likes the WOT adaptation which is objectively unfaithful to the source material
I originally watched this show without knowing there were any novels. I wasn't bothered by anything in it too much. When I found out there were actual novels, I went straight to Barnes & Noble and bought everyone they had. I read them straight through one after the other and have been hooked ever since. Now I own all the novels hardback and paperback, plus digital copies on e-reader, plus the audio books. I also always picture Dresden looking like Paul Blackthorne, just with longer hair.
I like the show. It had great casting of Dresden and Bob. I also loved the Dresden actor on Arrow. I also like how they adapted Bob which made sense for a visual medium. But I will say that Marsters IS Dresden.
Re: Marsters
tldr: he passed.
He was invited to audition, and he wasn't willing to commit to moving himself/his family to where it was being shot (Canada) for the possible length of the contract.
Also, again, KUDOS to Buzzy Multimedia--a small audiobook company whose premise was to create buzz about works they sold by using readers who already had fanbases from genre work. Their biggest success was having James Marsters read the first couple of Dresden books. Later, the audiobooks were produced by Random House . . .
Yknow, when I read “he passed” I thought he died and got sad
@@MEWtiful lol, i was just about to google it to see.
I will admit I never read the books but I sort of liked the series. Namely Paul Blackthorne. Good actor.
I genuinely don’t mind him as Dresden if he had a better script. He’s totally alright.
@@DanielGreeneReviews - they got some things right with the casting. Blackthorne is tall, dark haired, and not a pretty boy. He cared about his performance. You're completely right about the script. It bugged me that they changed Murphy's name, though really, they changed the character so much that the name hardly mattered after awhile.
I got into the Dresden Files back in high school, so when the show came out, I was excited for it. I remember watching it several times with my dad, as kind of a shared thing to do on Sunday night. (Weirdly, we would later bond in a similar way over Arrow, where Paul Blackthorne was in the supporting cast.) So I definitely have a fair bit of nostalgia for the series, even if I acknowledge it's not a great representation of the books. And I think a lot of your criticisms are spot-on (the changing of the phone call section is 100% on point), but a couple of them feel weaker to me. So, to waste a bit of my day off chatting about a nostalgic show, and to give you a bit of an algorihm bump, I wanted to highlight one or two of those.
For instance while it's certainly not fully in character for Harry to dismiss the kid out of hand, him hiding the full scope of the magical world from normals is pretty standard, especially for the first few books, where it's a regular strain on his and Murphy's relationship. He just tends to do so less by directly denying the supernatural, instead playing dumb or framing the truth as sarcasm. Him telling a child "I'm sure you're just imagining things, I won't take your money", especially in the opening of an early story, is pretty in-character for him. His phrasing is a little too solid in the show (like, he does acknowledge that he doesn't KNOW monsters aren't after them, and notes that "most" monsters don't exist, but he could be a little more cunning in presenting that point) and he definitely should have made some minor concession (given the kid the ward then, or promised to look into it) but the basic frame of the scene is, IMO, mostly correct.
Similarly, Bob in the second scene is still pro-helping the kid: he asks if Melissa is POSITIVE nothing's up, then suggests Harry "at least" go tell the kid that he's safe. He doesn't refer to the kid as snot-nosed as an insult, but as a joke about kids in general, and as foreshadowing for the raven's feather tracking spell. And the read I get off the mom in her first scene is purely a "we are humoring the kid by giving him a "magic symbol" to calm him down", so it at least makes sense that she's confused when Harry starts treating it as real after he's kidnapped.
Or like, back when I first saw the show, I instantly clocked that he was using an old-school jeep instead of the blue beetle because it fits the "magic messes with complicated electronics, so Harry drives a really old car" idea without forcing their team to build a potentially expensive prop vehicle. Yeah, it was a bit of a bummer, but SyFy was known for not being able to throw a ton of cash at their shows at the time.
Still, your criticism did drive me to hunt down the episode to double-check what I remembered, and see that I had misremembered Bob and Harry's first talk about the kid, which I had remembered much more as, funnily, Bob denies it being: Bob attempting to get Harry to take the cash for an easy open-and-shut case, and a chance to flirt with the Melissa woman. (I actually thought that my point was going to be that Bob was less genuine in the first scene, meaning he fits better with his second scene, and was surprised that it was "no, Bob is just generally more of a nice guy this episode.")And overall, you're right that it's a real mess at drawing us into the world.
Looking at it, it's funny to me how much better the episode would have been with like, one more pass at the script. Tweak a couple of the plot points, re-organize some of the stuff, and I think this would work pretty easy. There's some good bones to the episode (it introduces Harry, Karrin, and Bob, keeps the initial episode on a fairly small conflict, establishes that the supernatural world has good, bad, and neutral components, it even introduces an entirely new faction as something for book fans to be interested in), it's just let down by a poor implementation/structure of its components. Hell, just MOVING the call with Karrin to before Harry meets the kid, and making it Karrin calling Harry to trade getting the boot off his car for some off-the-books investigation of this new murder scene that night, would at least help structure the episode: Now we have a reason Harry doesn't want to spend a lot of time with the kid, since he has something gruesome to prepare for, that builds into "okay, I should be there for this kid", to "Oh dear, the cases are connected!"
I saw a sticker on one if my library Dresden books that said "as seen on Syfy" and I was like "there was a show????"
I'll wait for the Wheel of Time TV show rewatch review where you go after it with this level of honesty.
It's been a while since I saw the show but I think that Melissa was supposed to be the show's equivalent of Ivy, The Archive, which would be terrible and thus fit with the rest of their choices.
As someone who has never read the books and saw this show by accident a few years back because it was/might still be free on one of the free TV apps on Roku, yeah, this show was a perfectly serviceable stand alone series. I liked it, and was sad it only had one season.
"Totally fine show that ABSOLUTELY betrays the source material"
Totally how I'd describe Wheel of Time by Amazon
Well... Amazon's WoT definitely, ABSOLUTELY, betrays the source material... in damned near every way possible.
Idk, I think that's done a decent job so far. Yes, there are differences, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Wait to see where it goes with them. I think it's still too early to judge at this point, given how short it is.
Now, Foundation, _that_ was a bad adaptation.
I have not read the WoT so I have no gripes with the adaptation part of it but as a whole I found the show barely watchable. I'd rather watch The Outpost, at least its camp and production quality seem to come from the budget and not the lack of creativity and effort.
@@olhristov If you just take the WoT show by itself... it's bad enough.
As you say, "barely watchable"... if that.
If you compare it against the books, it's even WORSE... a complete betrayal.
@@Nyet-Zdyes yeah. I was specifically addressing the "Totally fine show" part. I have heard almost unanimously from people that love the books or have at least read them that it is even worse for them.
So I remember watching this when it came out, and seeing the book title in the credits. Then I read the books, almost 20 years later still grateful to the show for that.
I watched the show, thought they messed it up by showing episodes out of order. Now I've read all the books and basically wait on the next one to be released. Easily my favorite series and I have many that I love.
You didn't talk about the bloody hockey stick. I watched the 1 season, it does not get better as it goes along. And Bianca turns out to be a friend and sometimes lover.
Yes, lots of issues with the show as an adaptation but it actually got me to go out and buy the first 8 books which were available at the time up through Proven Guilty. I've been hooked as a Dresden fan ever since. I actually liked Bob in the show as it provided a viewable foil for Dresden, but yes as a fan of the books I hope someone will try again and do a more faithful adaptation.
I actually started reading the Dresden Files yesterday, and I couldn't help clicking on this. I'm so glad you shied away from specific spoilers, and focused on the episode itself and large themes that were misrepresented lol. It's my fault for taking the risk of getting spoiled, but it looks like I'm lucky this time around
Have you ever watched Being Human? The UK series is pretty great, the USA one has a very different dynamic that was more meh but ended so strong IMO.
Literally my most fav show. US was my introduction to the supernatural genre as a whole. UK was my intro to specifically British tv. That rabbit hole led me to bbc Merlin, dr who and bunch of other classics. US will always hold a special place in my heart. Never really quite got over my love of the main four’s found family dynamic. Still searching for something like it to this day. Good comment bro. Don’t see a lot of people talk about those two shows
“You know, I’m something of a Dresden fan myself.”
-The Greene Goblin
Perhaps the majority of viewers of The Dresden Files (2007-2008) had read the book "Storm Front" which came out in 2000. I had never heard of Jim Butcher before the show. After watching the series, without preconceived notions, I found it highly entertaining. When the show was canceled I bought "Fool Moon" got hooked on the books and became a fan. Butcher is an amazing author and I have read everything he has written. Had it not been for the TV series - I would have missed out on a fantastic writer. So cut the series some slack, it was a gateway drug into the magical world of Butcher.
And that's totally fair! Now having read the books, imagine how much better and more people would have gotten into the series if they had been extremely faithful to the books. My only problem with tv series was the amount of small but important things they changed but oh well
@@TheSmokingMustache lockwood & co was fairly faithful (had to cover 2 books in one season) and is beloved by the fanbase. Got cancelled after one season.
The percy jackson tv show was so bad, it divived the fandom. Many of the fans who hated the more inaccurate movie started to appreaciate it because unless the tv show it's fun. Gets a second season.
Quality does not decide the success of a show or it's influence on it's source material.
Started reading Dresden Files bc of you. Just finished Summer Knight. Absolutely love it so far
I found the TV Series before I read the books, so I was unburdened by expectations. I enjoyed the TV series, that's right I'll admit to it. That said the TV series cannot compare to the books and especially not the Audio Books read by James which is hands down my absolute favorite book series ever.
Side note: "Absolutely Betrays Source Material" would be a great t-shirt. Please put it in the merch shop.
This reminds me of the Tom Ellis Lucifer show. It's a decent show (I heared) but it doesn't really have anything to do with the comic it was inspired by
I will say that I love Paul Blackthorn. I can't help but think of him as Dresden in my mind.
On of my favorite parts of Dresden is how they handle “super natural world is a secret” trope. Cause our world would 100% not believe it for a long time. I love it
Also Harry would probably drop everything to find out why the kid has 5k or how he can help him. He’s got a bit of a soft spot for kids who don’t seem to have their parents available. That’s an understatement
Thank you very much for this info! I look forward to getting back into the series, but this time with the audiobooks!
hey daniel, i discovered your channel a few days ago and i've been binge watching your videos actually! i'm still new to reading fantasy books (english is my second language, so before i used to read mostly non-fiction or classics but since i started reading in english i've been really enjoying fantasy). so basically i read an enchantment of ravens which is a YA fairytale-like fantasy, and then the sword of kaigen (which has become one of my favorite books ever) and then i...just went on..... and picked up the way of kings? uh- it was all great, that was before i stumbled upon your video and learned that this 1000 page-long book.... is a part of a series with other 1000 page-long books.
i mean- 169 pages in and i'm loving it so far but it has also been the source of my depression. (please kaladin deserves the worlds why must they do this to him?) but i was wondering if you had like- any standalone fantasy recommendations? maybe you could make a video about standalone fantasy book recommendations. :)
and your content is great, keep up the good work. :)
Can agree, as a new fan (1st book) im already in love with narration and characters and lore. Def an 11/10 listening experience
I was a big fan of the book series and was so excited to see it get an adaptation. I saw the first episode and never watched another one. There just seemed to be nothing that connected the books to the show: no trench coat, hat, staff, blue beetle, Bob, etc. I read later why a few of those things didn't happen, but at the time, I was completely baffled at how they got the simplest things wrong.
I'd love this be a channel series because I'd love you see you take on Shannara, and The Legend of the Seeker.
I remember you saying in your One Piece and Berserk reviews you really like manipulator/ master-mind antagonists, so I recommend you to check "Monster" by Urasawa Naoki if you haven't. I'm reading it right now for the first time and it's pretty good so far.
Taking the skinwalker, the most horrific, vile, and malice-filled creature from the entire series that completely outclassed Dresden so much that he got literal mental trauma from just LOOKING at it for a split second, and turning it into a budget-Supernatural normal looking person monster-of-the-week that gets defeated with a random trinket is just so dumb it's actually impressive of how wasteful of potential it is.
Let's be honest.... you could probably have made the same video about WoT. But hey, I will die before giving up hope on Season 2!
I watched the series knowing nothing of how it is in the books. I genuinely enjoyed it and wish there would be more. I do read books now so I can clearly see the difference, but I still love series as well
To me this feels like someone had a fantastical crime drama in a writer's room somewhere and slapped on the Dresden name for a pre-existing fanbase
I've never seen this but I'll check it out now just because the lead actor plays Laurel and Sara Lance's dad in Arrow, and I can't not see him in that role😂
Thanks for saving me from this show. I was looking up interesting series with Fae in it, and had dresden files on my list, and just hearing how awful the start is and terrible writing and direction of that first episode, just gosh, thank you. I'll just have to pick up the books or audiobooks if I want to get into
Yeah, it's just as well since they never even got around to introducing the fae in the DF TV series. They threw so much of the books' terrific worldbuilding out the window, it's sad.
So the show itself isn't bad if you disconnect yourself from the books. If you expect it to be true to the books you will be horribly unsatisfied. Also, the fae really don't have a presence in the show.
My wife was a big fan of these books! She was reading them to me for awhile, but we kind of fell out of the series before I got very far into it. We listened to review of this together and it really rekindled our interest in the books, so we're probably going to give them another go here soon (especially since one of my biggest complaints was the 'milady-ness' of the first few books, and I'm glad to hear it gets less egregious over time). Thanks for the review!
Ok, I have a confession to make. I liked the series. Not at first but when I changed my attitude from "this is a dresden adaptation" to "this is a urban fantasy flick". But I have also never analyzed is at hard as Daniel so many flaws went unnoticed.
My brother has been trying to get me to read the Dresden files for a while now but I wasn't interested. I heard about Bob the skull and a wizard TRYING to be public in this video and now I'm interested.
They wanted to start the show before storm front, to my understanding, because they wanted to have someone freedom to grow into the stormfront Dresden and beyond. TV used to have diff expectations. Have to have Bob as a person because a skull with flickering lights is “boring to watch”
I watched the show years ago (and I watched it again last week) but I am about to start reading the books for the first time because of the show. Looking forward to learning about all the characters.
The show is the reason I found out about the book series, so while I don’t think it’s a great adaptation I can’t help but be grateful to it :)
That Dresden Files show was more faithful than Amazons Wheel of Time lol
Wheel of Time is THE perfect example of how not to adapt a series. Nothing else will ever come close to the complete and utter disaster of when the Dark One won the last battle. The TV show is what happens when the Dark One remakes the Wheel.
FINALLY I've been waiting forever to hear you talk about this haha
I discovered the show before the books, and on my first watch through I completed the series and enjoyed the show enough to pick up the first book. Of course now that I am in deep with the novels I went back to watch the show again and I just couldn’t… it’s so bad in comparison.
You should make this a series. Episode 2 should be Amazons: The Wheel of Time.
I saw the show before I started the books. Honestly, I think the show being on SyFy made it doomed before it started. Sci-fi channel shows lean into the campy tropes that nobody likes. I think the only show on that channel that was more or less universally liked by everyone was Warehouse 13, but camp works for that kind of show. The Dresden Files show was trying to be serious while keeping that level of camp, and it didn't work.
Pretty sure Eureka was fairly universally liked.
@@MichaelAlthauser Fair enough, I hadn't seen enough of Eureka to have an opinion of it.
Wasn't it also a loose spin-off of Warehouse 13? I think I recall seeing characters on both shows make guest appearances on the other.
Farscape.
I have a soft spot for the Dresden Files TV Show. It was my introduction to Dresden as a whole. A friend of mine had been trying to get me to read the books, but I hadn't yet. Then I saw the show a figured I'd give the books a chance. It was a step up. So even though it wasn't what the books were, it brought me to the series and to Jim Butcher, who ended up being one of my all time favorite authors.
I picked up the first book of the series at my local library after hearing so much praise for the series in a lot of videos on this channel. I had been warned of how women are described in this book. I thought it would be fine as long as the rest of the story was good. Still, Dresden's view of women threw me completely. I didn't make it past twelve pages before I had to pause as the misogyny was hitting me hard. By page 30 I put the book down and I probably won't pick it back up.
The promise that it gets better when you've gotten past book six, but that it is still prevalent, is not enough for me. It might be a series that I would love for a lot of other things. But it would not be worth it as I would be constantly boiling with rage and frustration over the misogyny. There are so many other books and series out there that won't make me feel this way and I will be better off without reading Dresden files.
I understand that everyone's experience with a novel will be different and I don't want to take away from anyone else's experience. To the people who love the series - good for you. From what i heard the series has a lot to offer. I'm just not the right audience and that's okay.
If you ever do want to give it another go, I’d honestly recommend starting from book 3. The first two books are the weakest entries (in most people’s opinions) and nothing* super important happens in them. And starting on book 3 will skip most of what I think you dislike.
I think what the world needs right now is a series of deep dives on every dresden files episode from the goblin
The 8th episode is the Storm Front one and it’s easily the best in the series, BUT it suffers from the exact things you say. The choices are just so weird and plot convenient.
Many of the changes that frustrate fans are just so unnecessary and almost seem to be designed to make sure that fans know there will not be a fun book tie in later.
It also only barely resembles the plot of Storm Front. No Marcone, no Toot Toot, and the ending is totally different.
If they wanted to reuse restaurant sets, at least make it a Burger King
You know, the restaurant that Harry ACTUALLY goes to frequently
This and WOT are my most favourite fantasy series and both of them got a shitty adaptation. And in both cases it was because you had writers who thought they could do better than the original author. And I refuse to see either as more true than your average fanfic.
Dresden Files has one excuse the current adaptations don't have. It just came too early. Dresden Files was made in the vein of the Buffys and Angels, before serialized long form storytelling was the main stream.The Dresden Files books are perfect for modern adaptations. 6 to 8 episodes around 40 minutes or so would have been the perfect length to cover one book. If it was made today it may have actually turned out quite good.
Almost like the WoT, meaning an abomination of an adaptation and a meh show 😂
I watched most of the tv show after reading the books. It definitely had the fingerprints of the era it come out in. Buffy, Angel, Charmed obviously had a massive influence on the writers/directors.
I only saw the Dresden Files show recently, but I found it really interesting. I wish it had kept going. It was bad, but like... in a way that I kept wanting to see what it was doing. It definitely did a LOT of things that I absolutely hate. It leaned more heavily on the "magic is real but it's secret" side of Dresden that I think is one of the books weakest aspects. I HATE that trope in fiction. It's completely nonsensical. If magic were real, there would be no way of keeping it secret. The line about "people ignore what they don't understand" is bullshit made up by people who sell magic healing crystals and need a line to explain to gullible people why their doctor doesn't know shiny rocks cure cancer.
It's fiction. There's no reason to have magic be secret in it. No one is going to be stupid enough to think this shit is actually happening in the real world. You aren't making people suspend disbelief by saying "on top of the laws of physics being different, also human nature is different in my story."
yeah i fucking hate it when books or movies make the science and reason guy the dismissive idiot and the batshit crazy conspiracy nuts to be the real reasonable one.
I never saw the show but watching this I'm very glad I didn't 😂...thanks for the fun breakdown here...your Dresden content is the only reason I bothered reading the series, as this brief attempt at a TV series was the only time I'd ever even heard of it and I knew the show failed so had no reason to look further...you're doing Jim Butcher and Harry Dresden a service 🙏
As a hardcore Dresden' fan, I do genuinely recommend watching the rest of the series. You're right, it does have a lot of issues, and in a lot of respects, doesn't faithfully adapt the story/ies; but there are great nuggets to be found in it. I actually DO love the show, despite all that. Not out of blind fandom, but because I was entertained by it, I liked some (not all, just some) of directions they take, and the interesting differences that came with it, and I do wish the show had continued beyond the first season. Maybe it's just a guilty pleasure for me, I couldn't say for sure, but probably both.
But if this episode really did bother you as much as it seemed to, and you have zero desire to even give the rest of it a chance, that's perfectly understandable, because I 100% get why most of the fans of the books did not enjoy it at all. (I just think it's not quite as bad as most say, and I think you did see the effort that was put into it, even though the production and writing was hamstrung by the sudden additional producer and all the interfering they did to it.) Hell, I'd love to personally discuss the show with you if you were ever up for that; because I feel like I'm the only fan who loves the show haha.