Graeber and Wengrow on the Myth of the Stupid Savage
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- We're proud to present this talk by David Graeber and David Wengrow, entitled The Myth of the Stupid Savage: Rousseau's Ghost and the Future of Political Anthropology.
Originally presented at the PPA+ Conference at the University of Amsterdam in May 2019.
Article:
www.journaldumauss.net/?La-sag...
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UrsulaLeGuin: "We live in capitalism; its power seems inescapable -- but then, so did the divine right of kings."
Capitalism will never work. If we free the slaves who will build the stone monuments in which we will lay the god kings to rest?!
👏
@@isidoreaerys8745 “-isms” as the suffix applies here evolves from the observer, and only the observer. That said clearly the so called criteria for something to “work” or not work are generally separated into two camps. Our modern term is perhaps the have’s and the have nots”. Where one argues “Capitalism never works”, must consider neither has any other ism ie Marxism or the eventual Totalitarianism.
@@RoninDosho sounds like you might benefit from reading Wengrow & Graeber's book.
There is no pure kapitalist system anywhere in place, everything is heavily drenched in corporatism.
R.I.P. David Graeber. 1961-2020
@Narges Segran yeah, whenever a leftist in the US dies, a good rule of thumb is to just assume the feds were involved
David Graeber's baseline default setting of quite giggling is one of the most delightful things in the world. RIP.
graeber is like a kid in a candy store with these new revelations.
love him. RIP.
this has two interesting aspects: joy, joy by the result of joy. just opposite of BS jobs.
Also because he sounds like eating candies while talking... sincerely quite annoying.
@@paolograsso5085 I think that's just you.
It’s just simple curiosity … if we have the guts to question narratives it leads to better questions, and new discoveries!
The part about the indigenous critique of French society laying the basis for the enlightenment & French rev is mind blowing. 🤯
I'm so sad that I didn't discover the brilliant mind that was David Graeber before he passed. I've watched dozens of hours of his stuff on youtube now and will get his books when I can. RIP beautiful person.
I know me too…like the time i was at a book fair with my little girl and wondered about the giant crowd of people trying to squeeze into an auditorium for a talk with an author…Christopher Hitchens…I had no idea who he was either….missed it by that much…doh!
Same
Just found him a week ago, have already burned through like 12 hours of speeches and clips
The Dawn of Everything is a masterpiece. One of the best books I've ever read. It starts off by tearing into Pinker and Jared Diamond and gets better and better.
q
I am so grateful to be disabused of my misconceptions.
Great talk.
Indeed, though it is amusing when they babble on like academics!
Hey, love your vids.
The point about how silly it is to assume Europe adopted dietary habits while totally ignoring philosophical and political ideas was so striking yet so simple! Great talk, thank you for uploading
The Book Is Going to Be Called "THE DAWN OF EVERYTHING" (Wengrow is keeping that title as that was what Graeber was hoping it would be called before he tragically died).
Graeber giggling away is one of the purest things I’ve ever heard.
Have got to thank this beautiful mind for all his contributions to the wider movements.
Rest In Power David Graeber! What a blow, and when we need voices and minds like his the most. Michael Brooks not long before that. We gotta step up!
Solidarity!
✊👊🖤☮️🏴🥀🌐A///E
My two favourites also.
Graeber’s brilliance on show once again. You will be missed.
Graeber is so happy. Its so wonderful to listen to him laugh and giggle. And for good reason! This book changed my life, and every time i tell someone its the greatest book and they must read it, they always, always reply “yes! That book changed my life!” Having already read it. Both Davids - thank them both, on the earth and under it.
You're definitely trapped in an echo chamber.
Garbers constant giggling is hilarious. Terrence Mckenna, in the midst of one of his poetic rants said something like " The universe reverberating in a cosmic giggle". He's doing that.
52:33 “This is the smoking gun” I could listen to the following sentence over and over. How right he is. This is powerful work David and David.
20:15 when you share your sense of humor only with yourself
You gotta love when academics and researchers are finding humor in things that mainly just they can appreciate!
At 15:30 he giggles to himself to a full 15 seconds. I love it.
@@henrymerrilees8501 adorable
He just kind of sits there and you can't even see his mouth move or his body in motion with his laugh, freaks me out! I thought it was a member of the audience at first.
He was probably thinking of the Habsburgs
I regularly search David Graeber videos specifically for intellectual treats like this. Never disappointed. Thanks for posting and keeping youtube relevant.
It is all playing out in the corridors of Whitehall at tbe moment. A so called Cathoilc prime minister is leading Europe a merry dance. He signed a treaty with Europe and ratified it in Parliament, only so that he could be seen to achieve the impossible but when the impossible rose to bite him, He told the world that England was going to break international law,, A law that he and Lord Frost actually asked for and insisted on but now admitted that they only agreed to it to get a majority in government, to stay in power, , A Greek scholar he has us believe, Arriving in Downing st to take over with his Girlfriend pregnant and on the verge of bankruptcy after paying off his wife and 4 children, A Greek scholar steeped in Churchillian rhetoric but along comes Madame Acuri and her Dairy heard to be heard. A bit now and a bit later, just enough to ruffle the dyed blond Boris.. How could any civilised Greek scholar mass murder 20,000 senior citizens and let the bodies pile up. How can the people who engineered this worthless piece of dirt into the highest office in Britain live with their treason. They have done more harm and damage to Britain than both world wars.
Boris and his puppeteers are the real stupid savages.
He was a genius I'd say
"I regularly search David Graeber"
Could you kindly explain to me what's so good about this guy? I never heard of him, I'm just watching this video, and I find it *both* trivial and unconvincing, which is almost a miracle. ;-)
I mean, in his intro, this guy talked for 8 min straight without actually making *any* statements!
So, how is he loved so much? For ideology?
@ bakters . I could not agree more with you. I just wanted a shot at Boris Wooster that's all..
@@bakters try to read of his books or one of his papers. Make sure you do not die without such profound intelectual experience. At a personal level he was very complete as well. Whenever I contacted him he replied.
Oh how a Graeber blooms; for a magical day, that one never forgets. Your favorite comedian. First love, at the first sight. The time, your, underdog team, won a TEAM victory; all did their part. A rainbow, purple, magenta, most beautiful blue to red, sunrise; before you know Davids 😢sunrise, is a sunset. We miss you Mr Graeber.
the chief/diplomat first discussed around 45:00 is Kondiaronk for anyone who is wondering (it took me quite some time to find the name because I had assumed the spelling observed standard French orthography and was searching for like "Condirac" based on their pronunciation lol)
Thank you
Actualy it is rather Kandiaronk (as Graeber explain, a "o" doesnt make sense in Native American language)
I was about to give up google searching, thank you!
great thanks! have already spend several minutes smuching google with misspells
Thank you. 🌹
I was listening to this in headphones and I thought I heard a small child repeatedly laughing. I didn’t think much of it, I just assumed someone must’ve had to take their kid to work with them that day. After almost an hour I look at the screen and there’s David Graeber cackling into his microphone. 😂
David Graeber was truly one of a kind and the enthusiasm he brought to any topic he explained was infectious.
He is so missed. Rest in Power.
Dawn of Everything is really enjoyable! My main reason for watching this is to try and figure out how much the book owes to Wengrow, who I hadn't heard of until this book showed up.
I find that he explains their theories a bit cleaner; it is easier to connect with the idea at hand.
If you look at the references, quite a bit.
it's amazing how much Graeber enjoys what he studies. thank you for the upload
W J Sidis wrote extensively on the influence of native North American culture on the European Enlightenment in his work “The tribes and their states” he spoke Wampanoag and has a lot more information on the subject than what is discussed here, The flow of ideas from the Americas Westwood was a deliberate ploy by the Iroquois nation to send the Englishman home with radical ideas, Oliver Cromwell‘s cousin lived with the Iroquois for a number of years and took their ideas of liberty back to his cousin which started the English Civil War for instance, a fascinating read from the highest IQ of all time
They got it. They really did it! OMG! I am amazed. That kind of stuff has been part of backstage conversation in Anthropology since Pierre Clastres and they actually proved it. Wow!
This is fantastic, thank you. Cultural hegemony is a powerful drug.
This is groundbreaking work! Shattering so many Euro-centric myths. I hope this finds a wide audience so that we can unwind all of the harmful ideology that these Europeans gave us and begin to adopt the wisdom of indigenous peoples.
But we must tread lightly on following such a program as old dogmas tend to be replaced with new dogmas. It's tricky, tricky tricky.
@@DanDeLeoninthefield Expanding the context of history and falsifying ahistorical fictions leads to a more clear eyed understanding of where our ideas and beliefs come from. History is a story we tell. The closer that story is to the verified truth, the less susceptible we are to dogmatic structures of thought and behavior.
Europeans invented electricity and internet and you talk about wisdom of indigenous people.
Indigenous people are no better then anyone else, this is on momma, everyone thinks there is a way out of stupidity. There isn’t. Doom Arse surround the une’ verse. 😂 talking heads will get us out of the plastic mess we’re in, Indigenous people never did anything wrong, they never ruined their food supply or pooped in their wheaties 😂 GTFOH. We all doomed, enjoy the eternal meow mang, and smile when you wash your dishes 😊
I think this lecture is a perfect companion to Raul Peck’s Exterminate All The Brutes. The dehumanization of indigenous people leading to colonial genocide grew with an invented story about the indigenous people’s capacity for governance and philosophical thinking.
2021 here speaking! The books been out for 2 months. If you understand David’s laugh and giggle.....you will understand the crux of the book. I don’t care I’m gonna say it I love you!
I am sad to have missed this very interesting lecture last year. During the student protest and occupation movement in 2015 Graeber was one of the first speakers at the occupied Maagdenhuis (the administrative headquarters of the UvA) and he was so eloquent, supportive and of course funny. After his talk I went and talked with him a bit and he was so kind and conscientious.. He will be missed.
Graeber was lost far too soon. A whole library of precious books he could have written, lost forever
this was amazing thank you can't wait to re-read/read through all his material. MUST carry his message forward. MUST build a better world. so little time left.
This is a late reply, but instead of seeing it as having a little time left, see it as a new dawn
Graeber's cheerful little chuckles into his microphone are so enjoyable. I'm deeply saddened that we lost him far too early.
Damn, this makes me miss Graeber, at the same time I can't wait for the book these two wrote together, this talk is such a great teaser.
Just watching this after reading dawn of everything. We are so fortunate they could write that
Graeber giggled quietly every once in a while. What a character.
So many of their points reminded me of Pierre Clastres' Society Against the State
This was super insightful. Tells me that there's a lot to learn about indigenous American culture and history and thought. They were in a good position to critique accepted European norms and values.
There really is. As they show, we have already learned much. But there's much more to learn.
What in the actual f***. I didn't expect my mind to be blown today. I'm supposed to take my finals but instead I'm rethinking my entire life. Thanks alot (fr tho).
Delayed return economies develop in places where there are seasonal food shortages, periodic droughts, or, simply, unpredictable localized failures of fish-runs, game migrations. Experiences of this led to an organized effort, often extremely seasonal in timing, to collect as much surplus as possible, to be processed and stored against risks of starvation. These group efforts take place in a context of leadership. This often develops along lines of kinship seniority. Thus, a ranked society develops. Ranks, such as that of the "Chief" of a lineage, a village, or even a regional cluster of communities, represents not so much aristocratic ownership of land brother property, but rather, increasingly concentrated responsibility for collective risk management. This is not "inequality" in the same sense as that which developed in economically stratified societies in nation states.
Love this so much!!!
One of my favorites
Can't believe I haven't seen this before. I only just heard that these two worked on a book that's coming out this year. I imagine these concepts are central to it.
I can't wait to read their book on the matter.
really enjoyed this talk
David Graeber will live forever, humble, honest, authentic, sincere,
What an outstanding and lovely guy! ; Intellectually brilliant, immensely knowledgeable, profoundly interesting, he has identified the truth, which our current iteration attempts to hide from us, and he shares his insights generously, and genuinely, with us, we are privelidged to have heard his words, and to have made his acquaintance, a person of OUTSTANDING stature, Thoroughly decent, complete, uncomplicated, genius.
A difficult but worthwhile listen, thank you.
Interesting talk!
Thanks for this upload, and free of adverts, beautiful human who facilitated all that! 🙏
So very interesting, thank you.
This takes up some of what Terrance McKenna was onto about about consciousness...consciousness is relational. Conversation IS consciousness, not a binary, septic, give and take exchange from one sperate and individual mind to another.
Yes it explains why I talk to myself whenever I think about a problem. Also you can't be an individual/have an individual conscious without another person to compare/bounce yourself off of. I never thought of it like that. Blew my mind in the first 9 minute lol
Essential reflection!!!
Thank you so much for this upload! this is probably the most interesting thing I've heard in a while. I am looking forward to the book!
Any time and so are we!
+1 engagement points for that algorithm
x2 engagement multiplier
x3 Margeret Thatcher is dead
Wow, this research sounds awesome. I've been reading some anthro recently and I look forward to adding this book to the library when they finish it!
Anthropology knows better
You won't find anwers in economics
Thank you!
Thanks!
Very enjoyable! I feel this work will be picked up and carried for the betterment of humanity
Wonderful people too.
Very interesting! Looking forward to the book.
Do you have the Q&A part of the talk?
I have been looking forward to their collective lecture and their book for a long time now.
Also, is that someone from Red Plateaus introducing the Davids?
Nope, the introducer is Enzo Rossi, at the University of Amsterdam.
thank you.
"Coincidence is what's left over when you apply a bad theory." McKenna
Fantastic!
This is... Amazing.
Lovely surprise. 🌹
Thank you! this is great fun in times of COVID19 :D.
Interesting. I came upon similar things in Brasil, when I lived there. The french introduced laws in the end forbidding their subjects to go native. Rio de Janeiro were especially hit by it, so much so that the authorities feared it would go extinct since more and more migrants moved into indian villages around it, since they prefered the life lived there. There were some 80 years of peaceful interchange between indan and europeans before hostilities took over and real conquest occured.
Finally, Wengrow and Graeber together! What a treat!
Ceci n'est pas une *community engagement*
Shortly before the Pandemic began and Graeber died. BRILLIANCE..Soooo Thankful !
self-conscious is not the same as Self-awareness.
We experience self-consciousness as inhibitory 'controls', masking, and distancing - as in self-alienations that then form social reinforcement.
Unselfconscious joy is of a different order.
We project our backstory as our 'past'. Not merely contents but contextual reframing.
Just got the dawn of everything.
this was nice
It would have been great to hear the Q&A. Do you still have this or did you stop recording?
Can you please upload the wider dialog that ensued. Thank you ✌️
Afraid not. But next time we have a talk recording we'll try.
@@RedPlateauswhy
Fascinating how the "complex hunter gatherers" are basically an embodiment of dialectics. You can almost see a reflection of this tendency in modern politics dividing into starkly opposed camps. It's not difficult to imagine individual people or groups in those societies flipping between the options like the "pendulum swing" phenomenon people recognize today. Having wildly different societies neighbor each other seems like an adaptation of the social system to mitigate discontent. If one option is bad enough to you, there's a different way of doing things over there. Paradoxically this is also a kind of check against tyranny because if enough people leave, society ceases to function, but only if the other option really is different enough.
In the regionally divided groups, this makes more sense, but the temporally divided ones are a different question. The totality of that system is some kind of balance between two systems. I think the key to understanding those is that the more "ordered" versions are temporary and have different people in the same positions. The similarity to permanently stratified societies seems superficial when that's accounted for. The defining feature of permanent stratification is the maintenance of dynasties snd other entrenched power with particular groups. Adopting those roles temporarily vs permanently strikes me as quite like the distinction between consensual BDSM role-play and actual sexual violence.
This seems like a stretch. It would not have been simple to move from one society to another, both because of the difficulty of traveling so far and also due to the complexity and variability of languages throughout California and the PNW.
That was a major waste of brain power and time on your part. I'm genuinely sorry that you think that was worth writing.
@@RenegadeShepard69 ...two paragraphs of text is a lot to you?
@@BossIgnostic ...No? I didn't say it was a waste for being "a lot"...
More of this
We hope so!
Graeber's giggle is infectious. RIP
The *seasonality* dimension, mostly sub rosa, is super-important to Emile Durkheim's "story", both early (in the DoLinS) and late (Elementary Forms).
It would be the most wonderful thing keeping this work
Not all of us have this shot
Life is unfair
David Graeber is bae
Baevid Baeber
RIP king
Similar title to my book, "The Myth of the Intelligent Human", in which I postulate that humans highly over-rate their own species' intelligence by only comparing us with animals of lesser brain size and function with no conception of how a superior intelligence would think. We fancy ourselves the peak of intelligence while operating on a meat computing system of limited capacity, we have serious problems that should bring into question the rationality and capacity of humans, indeed, whether we are the most intelligent species in ways that really matter.
I propose that we will evolve higher intelligence before we make much progress on "The Enlightenment" but we may well devolve through our own destructive tendencies or destroy our species by self-extinction. At this point, humans are beyond question, still stupid on average.
Can we have Skype session about your book, please?
Where can I get this book of yours? Sounds like something I could've said, I'd be very interested in reading it.
This is not an original idea: how did you stretch it into a BOOK??
I suggested to Curt Jaimungal that he interview Mr. Wengrow.
I look forward to _that!_
😃
it would be cool if this is made into a book
I believe that's their plan.
@@RedPlateaus The Book is Being Called "The Dawn of Everything" (Wengrow is keeping that title as that was what Graeber was hoping it would be called).
Just bought his book "debt"
This is a good video
RIP David Graeber
Self-consciousness works not only in dialogues. Every time you think about your self, how you look to other people, or reflect on your past actions, or plan what you’ll do tomorrow - it’s your self-consciousness working. Even taking selfies is a part of self-consciousness.
Fantastisk presentasjon!
Glad du liker'e!
good
Can someone please tell me how to find an English translation of the Article in the description? I don't speak French fluently enough to read an academic article.
Thanks.
We don't know if there is one yet, but hopefully it'll be part of the book they're writing together.
That's the plan, it is meant to be a chapter of that book
They have an article called 'how to change the course of human history' in Eurozine from last year that they wrote while researching their book, and while it's not the one in question, you would probably find it interesting.
@@ehall2877 To make it as easy as possible for anyone reading this, here's a link to that: www.eurozine.com/change-course-human-history/
@@RedPlateaus HAD been writing together. What a tragedy
How polite of them to use the word Myth rather than Lie. The truth is that native cultures were not stupid. They observed and analyzed capitalist culture and rejected it for its dangers. They thus CHOSE not to have a predatory money system. From their deep ancient understanding of how all people and things are connected they CHOSE to live simpler lives in harmony with nature.
exactly. I am forever indebted to Leanne Betasamosake Simpson for making me realize this
Spot on
I just wish they read some books by Enrique Dussel for their research!
Does anyone know where to find more information on the discussion of self-awareness lasting only a couple seconds aside from when we are talking to people? It sounds really interesting and believable, I just had trouble finding anything on it from a casual online search.
Thank you a lot! I'd like to translate this to spanish. Should I upload the subtitles to this video or should I upload a video specifically for spanish subtitles? And I want to ask you I you have an english transcription of this video that would fasten the translation process or if you don't and I can make the transcription.
Good
Does anyone know if Wengrow and Graeber have given any other talks together?
8:20 so interesting