Why The Holy Roman Empire Was The WEIRDEST Country Ever
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2016
- The Holy Roman Empire is not only an ironic concept, it's also weirdly complicated. Learn how many titles the rulers needed to see how cool they were trying to be or why the Emperor's rule was only semi-optional.
Thanks for a million views!
EmperorTigerstar No problem
Thanks for being neither an emperor, nor a tiger, nor a star
You're not welcome. Horrible video that misrepresents the issue.
@@GuthixAwake tho?
EmperorTigerstar at 4:36 what did that quick little thing under the picture of Martin Luther say?
Weirdest country? Try Democratic People's Republic of Korea
It's not Democratic
It's not for the People
It's not a Republic
It's not even the whole Korea!
So the real name of North Korea is just 'of'
hereLiesThisTroper 😂😂😂
Theoretically it's democratic because they have elections for their leader. With only one choice being their current leader, but hey, _they have elections!_ That way, they can keep the "democratic" in their title.
***** I think the choices are...
1 - Kim Jong Un
2 - Kim Jong Un
3 - Kim Jong Un
4 - Concentration Camp
well...
1. democracy = citizens (actually demos = someone who has authority to vote. "higher class" so to speak. that's why slaves never had a vote but back to the topic...) vote. north koreans as citizens of north korea do have a vote in their country.
2. "people's" is either wrongly understood by you or even wrongly translated in first place. in fact "people's" in that case means "folk"... like the ones who live in that territory. e.g. german translation for "poeple's republic" is "VOLKSrepublik". so in the case of north korea: yes, north koreans live in that area and they have a right to vote.
3. "A republic (from Latin: res publica) is a sovereign state or country which is organized with a form of government in which power resides in elected individuals representing the citizen body and government leaders exercise power according to the rule of law." ... so as already stated: north korea has official borders in which its citizens elect their leader. it has a law system of which the elected government rules the country.
4. it "depends". if you look up the chronology of the "korean war" and the pre-war situation you'll notice that north korean forces practically occupied almost the whole korea for a short period of time. which "practically" makes the country unified. the intervention of a "third party" in form of US forces which recaptured the south korean territory made the country split again. north korea do not accept todays southern border since the territory that lies behind was occupied by US forces.
so acutally (and i'm only historically speaking here) we have to ask the legitimacy of south korea instead ^^
agreeing or disagreeing with the north korean governmental procedures is a whole other topic and has nothing to do with historical facts.
cccpredarmy well it's true that North Korea is best Korea
You're not an emperor, not a tiger and not a star
GhastCraft lol
GOOD ONE MY FRIEND
CopyRightedSnake
Hahahaha.
Hellol.
@_jeff _ What do you mean?
“Habsburgs won election for 200 years” Putin: “interesting”
Apparently, he’s immortal. So… yeah.
Germans: *_destroy rome_*
Germans: *_try to recreate rome_*
Pope: *_declares the new german rome that doesn't even control rome the true successors to rome_*
Eastern Rome: Um... I'm right HERE?
basicly western christian hates the orthodox christian ppl just because they are not "the western romanian". it still does apply like how ppl hates the russian with it's orthodox christian as it's biggest right wing political party
Russia: *Pretends to be Rome III*
french revolutioner: fuk it we are rome.....before the emperors.
the pope used the title, because the orthodox church didnt defended the christians in western rome, it was not the job of the bytzantic empre and the ydidnt wanted to have that job, expect 2-3 emperors, who reasoned that interest with trade reasons.
the roman pope had thereby the autority as the representative of rome to symbolical enlist the ruler of italy as the defender of all christs in westeuropa. they did the same thing with the short in power gotic emperors.
in an historical view the bytzantic church of the former eastern roman empire is today the catholic church, because shortly before the turks pillaged and conquered bytzantz, the church had to accept a church-uunion with the catholic autority of the pope to get military aid from the catholic states/habsburg and they didnt do much agains the turks after getting them to sign the union. :3
the russian-greek-bulgarian-ukain-whatevernowffs-orthodox church is basicly just a national church with his own patriachat, ignoring the treaty of the bytzantic church with the catholic pope and that worked, because nations became the new religion for state creation.
the germans should be called roman in the HRE, because the HRE had to enforce the statement, that the roman empire still existed. why?....pfff just the bible explaining, that the fall of the roman empire is the start of the apocalypse...the end of the world.....that didnt happend....so oblivious the roman empire have to exist.....or the bible would lie..... :D ....*true story
Actually they controlled Rome for a good many years en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy_(Holy_Roman_Empire)
And on top of that, when it was started out it was more like a unified empire. So we have a unified, catholic empire who held Rome until the split between the Church and Holy Roman Emperor.
Hell part of the reason for the Italian Wars was that they didn't know who had precedence over who. The Pope or the Holy Roman Emperor. Later on, the smaller duchies and principalities such as Austria and Prussia gained dominance over the divided "Protestant German Federation" (actually a cool name tbh). With conflicts such as the Austro-Prussian War weakening it and then finally it being killed off and simplified after the Battle of Austerlitz. Then of course, Prussia allied with the British, fought back against Napoleon leading to the creation of the German Confederation, then finally unifying Germany and defeating the French in the Franco-Prussian War.
@@timesnewlogan2032 Nah, Rome III was claimed by the Otomans
You say that feudalism made the map dumb; I say that feudalism made the map interesting.
I agree with you ;)
Interestingly hard to understand and memorize.
Yeah it'll be fun for people who try to memorize all countries.
why do you want to memorize all states ? thats like memorizing all counties in the USA, do you do that ?
I say Renaissance makes the map smarter.
Shoutout to Bismark who made life so much fucking easier for us history nerds.
Austrian Empire Lol
Serbia, whatever you do don't assassinate the archdu... oh wait, shit....
Austrian Empire Empire? Do you not mean Serbian Back Garden?
Yay! Now, to finally figure out why the Balkans are very unstable.
Boring*
Even in matters as relevant as these Revolutions are better than Counterrevolutions.
So a cat wearing what I can only assume is some sort of mid-to-late nineteenth century Prussian military uniform just taught me about the bizarre politics of the Holy Roman Empire...
God bless the internet.
German Empire military uniform, Imperial German cat.
Imperial Crusader
Yes that is a cute Imperial German cat in a Imperial German military uniform. This vicious militaristic feline swears it absolute loyalty to Kaiser Willhelm II.
You do know that cat is actually a character who is a murderer?
Ah, he is just dressed up in the typical fashion of some obscure bloke they call Otto von Bismarck. You probably haven't heard of him. :)
Tigerstar, an evil clan leader who murdered countless of cats just to achieve his own personal goals
You know, for such a "dumb,weird" country, the Holy Roman Empire lasted a very long time and quite frankly there was a lot of method to this madness.
my thoughts... why would such a "dumb" and "stupid" system work for almost 900 years?
The same reason why other dumb and stupid systems keep working now: because rich and powerful people benefited from maintaining it.
No shit they lasted a long time when there weren't any enemies nearby. Had there never been any Spanish kingdoms to fight of the Muslims from the west and Slavic kingdoms to fight the Mongol invaders from the East, the HRE would of collapsed. HRE just got lucky that none of their neighbors were ideological enemies. If you want to see true perseverance look at the actual Roman Empire (Byzantium) they had a shit tone of invasions.
Haha, douchies. Its spelled duchies.
I need to grow up.
@@Fankas2000 are you sure? The Empire was capable of surviving the 30 years war, 30 years of massacre that reduced german population by 50% and destroyed the economy of the country.
This show how powerfull it was
Feudalism is one hell of a drug
That it is.
It is an institution in eu4 in 1.18 :D but thankfully the renaissance institution fires almost instantly.
And cocaine is a stupid governmental paradigm.
Soupy u make a bipolar depression infinitely worse
Nothing like those tech hikes, Adrian
But the HRE does make playing in Europe in EU4 so much more entertaining... one good thing.
Evolved Ape eu4?
So much more annoying you mean... I was playing with Holland trying to form the Netherlands. I only needed Friesland, but by now Friesland had become a free city. I couldn't take on Austria (even though they helped me beat up Burgundy during my independence war preventing them from gaining much land during the Burgundian inheritance LOL) but I realised Friesland was allied to Liege and Liege wasn't allied to anyone else, so I of course declared on Liege, took Friesland, formed the Netherlands and Bob's your uncle... except taking Friesland gave me 55 AE WITH ALL THE HRE!!! I lost the war (of course) and rage-quit the game.
But now I'm having fun with a campaign as the Mamlukes, which means I'll probably be (b)eaten up by Kebab soon...
+Thomas Vrielink I think you should get aroud the free city issue if you disable the DLC Art of War.
Nahhh... that's too easy. I was just joking around, I actually think it's good that it's hard to take a lot of land in the HRE, else you'd be able to grow too easily with all the small nations there. This makes it more of a challenge to play in that area. It's not broken like it is in CK2, where it seems impossible to take land both inside the HRE and from the HRE.
the mamluks need to defeat the ottomans before they get the janissaries event and should prioritize securing the ottoman cores in anatolia as to not let the ottomans take those 100 ~ development for free.
the mamluks can beat the ottomans early, before they take over their cores and before they get the janissaries event.
"No one to represent the true successor of Rome"
Byzantine Empire: Am I a joke to you???
Actually the byzantines werent Rome sucessor,there isnt one and never was a sucessor
Because the byzantines were the roman empire
@@alphagamer9505 What the hell?
@@israfilduran5063 what,being a sucessor means the original entity is dead and gone which isnt the case,the Byzantine empire is the roman empire just with way less land
technically they dont follow the roman church they are the orthodox
oddly since the roman church is in rome and the pope as the leader they crown those dudes but we can still say that byzantine is still the roman empire
The Byzantine Empire was Rome!
Meanwhile New Rome (Byzantium) was fighting the Arabs and bein' all old school Roman Imperialism with Greek overtones.
Maddog3060 Fighting Arabs? You mean the Arabs which conquered them and made them their daddy?
The HRE also continually fought against Muslims for centuries, only difference was they never lost the fight
Arabs took the Levant and Egypt and North Africa from the Byzantine empire
Wilson Elder
are you Sure about that
Turks ain't no different than the arabs. They are all muslim
*Byzantine laughter intensifies*
Wir sind Veloren Not only muslims, catholics played an equal part in its destruction.
Wir sind Veloren that's the case now. The first time constantinople was sacked by catholics, and they burned large parts of the city. Catholic vs Orthodox Hate was huge. It was a “crusade“! Normans conquered whole south of italy andnmade it catholic, conquered south of turkey weaking byzantine. The states genua and venecia led war against byzantium if it didn't do what they wanted, roughly speaking. And byzantines were fucking corrupt and decadent.
Wir sind Verloren small? Spoken like a true catholic
[laughs in Romanov]
Wir sind Verloren you mean the real Romans who held the Islamic tide for 1000 years while the HRE was to busy fighting its self? 😂
Napoleon clicked the Dismantle the HRE button....kudos to him ;)
Randomstuff And he got 100% prestige
I'll never be as good as him dang but at least I got discovery of the new world.
Hope he will do it soon, I cant make my big Byzantine Empire with a Holy Mess in the barbarian lands.
There are 84 provinces in the HRE controlled by states which are not members of the HRE. This changes the emperor's authority by -(fuck this I'm out) yearly.
The feeling from clicking that button... It's indescribable.
Every time I steal land from the HRE in EU4, I get a coalition in my face because some province that no one knows about declared war on me.
Lmao
Lol. I usually inspect the imperial map before declaring war to Germanic nations xD
Feudalism is what makes medieval history so interesting, in my opinion.
Yeah, I agree with you - but I think the Ancient Roman Empire is way more interesting to study, to be honest :)
skrivbok True, many things were much more advanced in the roman times even though it was long before the medieval era, it's very interesting to see that.
LuckasMS
Yeah, the most logical way of thinking is that every era became even more advanced - but when the Roman Empire fell, loads of knowledge and technology was lost for hundreds of years. It's interesting to think what the world would be like today, if the Roman Empire never divided nor fell - and that it was still around to this day.
Two things I see as a possibility, is that we'd still have a strong presence of Roman religion and that Latin would most likely have the same status as English has today. Christians would probably be a minority.
skrivbok Even though their empire collapsed they still managed to leave their legacy, aside from Italy that was their main territory they are what gave origin to the French, Spanish, Portuguese and Romanian peoples and languages.
LuckasMS
Yeah, that's absolutely true - and the alphabet we use to this day; it's been in use for almost 2 500 years, now that's something.
Napoleon dreamed of being as great as Charlemagne, but Charlemagne started feudalism and Napoleon ended it...
A ghost of Charlemagne probably appeared and said to Napoleon "Hey, Nap, I fucked shit up, please end it already!"
Lol what? How napoleon ended feudalism exactly?
WWI did that more.
Feudalism had effectively ended way before that. Sure, they retained some of the trappings of feudalism, but an absolute monarchy like Louis XIV's France was nothing feudal anymore.
Feudalism is based on personal vows and relations between noble lords. That gradually faded out of style in the late Middle Ages or early modern age.
Fuedelism was very important for the development of civilazation though
In wasn't because of feudalism that Charlemagne's empire split in three; it was because of gavelkind succession (he had three grandsons) and a desire to create three equal realms that were easier to rule.
dividing your inheritence equally between your sons could be considered "part" of the feodalism system (for the first centuries)
Dividing your inheritance equally was germanic tradition at that point and feudalism is a mix of germanic tribal traditions and the roman systems of government they encountered.
so there is no contradiction, early in the medieval ages (which were already feudal) they splitted their inheritances
The problem was that this applied to all forms of inheritance, whether it was noble titles or the belongings of the peasantry. Later many of the noble houses abolished this law to secure their position and the sanctity of their borders whereas for commoners it was mostly abolished during the Napoleonic wars when new ideas spread throughout europe.
Gavelkind is still practiced in many private wills to this day, dividing the parents' fortune among their children. It does not function well politically as it fosters rivalry and disunity (though primogeniture has its faults as well).
"The Thirty Years War...the war to end all wars between Catholics and Protestants in Europe."
Northern Ireland: Ahem...
andyjay729
You may have missed it but for a single frame in the bottom left-hand corner he says "unless you're the IRA."
4:36
You'll want to slow it down quite a bit.
a little foreplay for the two world wars ,exercising ground
Yet despite being "Stupid/Dumb" it survived for about 1,000 years & provided relative stability for that time. It ruled over a multi ethinc & eventual multi religious people more successfully than any other European power at that time except maybe the Eastern Roman Empire.
For what it is worth, Before Napolean invaded the Holy Roman Empire he first tried to lure away Prussia & then Austria with recognizing them as separate countries, but at the time they said no, we like being a part of the empire.
They also liked controlling foreign lands outside the empire ... playing on both side a bit ...
Not smart. It fearmonger on religion
Lasted this long because the east dealt with most threats
Well give them some credit they lasted for almost a thousand years. Very few empires lasted longer than the HRE.
XXXXXXXXXXX probably because nobody knew how to handle this thing
XXXXXXXXXXX the problem is that it wasn't an empire at all.
The Roman Empire (including all Roman states and the Byzantine Empire) lasted over 2000 years.
Only if you add the Byzantine Empire to it. I personally don't put it with the Roman together bcz. Byzantium was more Greek than Roman. And if you count only from the beginning (Octavian - to the last West Roman Emperor) then it's not even 500 years. If you add the Republic to it maybe 800.
Chris Gebhardt The Byzantine Empire was more Greek, while the Roans were more Latin, but they were still ancestors of the Romans. It's over 2000 years if you include the Roman Republic, Roman Empire Roman Kingdom and Byzantine Empire.
France - Ill create this clusterfuck
France - Ill destroy this clusterfuck
Oh france
Jake Mapping
It.. wasn't really started by France
Franks/Frankic kingdom is NOT France.
Auto Tuna it Kinda is
Aron Johansson
Not really, it was its predecessor, yet with many fundamental differences. Frankic kingdom was a germanic realm with an ethnic division. The homeland of the frankian tribe was the land around the Main river that crosses the modern day *Frankfurt*; and the conquered part of former Gallia which had a mostly romanic population. After Charlemagnes death, the realm split up into 3 parts where the Western part eventually became France.
They didn't Start it as mess - the hre wasn't even really a mess till the Renaissance.
What was so complicated about it? It was like the medieval version of the EU. And the EU is pretty simple, it's, uhm, well... You know, there is an EU parliament... Or several... Well, there are the non-democratically elected commissions and then some courts and the parliaments of the EU, who are democratically elected but basically meaningless, and then the parliaments of the states, who decide themselves if they want to acknowledge some EU decision or not, and the EU has several presidents that most EU citizens don't know, which might sound complicated, but the head of that state is... wait, let me look up wikipedia.... the head of the state is.... I think some Van Rompoy-guy from the netherlands... or belgium... I mean, flanders.... if he's still alive... Ok, another attempt: the official currency of the EU is the Euro, but not every EU-country uses it, because.... Of a decision by.... Someone. And most of it is in the Nato, except for Austria, Finnland, Sweden, while Norway, which is not in the EU, is in the Nato... so... The EU is... That's going to give future history nerds a headache
Well it was consisting of a myriad small states, and i really mean that, hundreds and hundres. Theres a reason why germany is littered with castles, those were the capitals of all those states. There were also bigger states, like countries, souch as Bohemia, Austria, Prussia etc. on top of that, you had free cities like Lubeck, Hamburg, Koln etc. All of these were miraculusly ruled by a semimonarchichal, semi democratic governemt that constantly changed capital. On top of that, these countries wre constantly fighting each other. Quite complicated if you ask me.
When you said "Habsburgs won all the time you completely skipped the Middle ages with the Staufens, Salians, Luxembourgs ...
+rofl0rblades I said "eventually the system got corrupted and suddenly the Habsburgs were winning everything." I never said they won from the beginning.
***** Ok, you're right, you said that. Still strange you skipped that part. But I guess you wanted a shorter video, that is your prerogative.
He also forgot to point out that the Ottoman threat was also a reason for that. Afterall one of the responsibilities that the Emperor had, was to defend his vassals against outside invaders.... however once the Ottomans became a thing in the south east of Europe, becoming the Emperor would have been kinda tricky for most other eligable german Lords that could have considered it.
@@EmperorTigerstar I am a bit late, but the other noble houses won in long, consecutive order as well.. until they died out. The system was corupt from the start.
For those of you who didn't pick up the reference, at 0:45 when it said the Pope was looking for a new Roman Emperor, and "how about... nah, they didn't really get along" the video is referring to the Byzantines. The building in the picture is the Hagia Sophia.
mosquitobight part of the reason why the pope elected Charlemagne as "emperor of the Romans"
Was because the eastern Roman Empire placed a woman on the throne whose name was Irene of Athens.
The Popes of Rome were strongly against having female rulers. Also, the Byzantines never saw themselves as Byzantines
but often referred to themselves as Romans. In fact, the Byzantines often used the Greek word Rhomaoi which means Roman when referring to themselves. The reason why people in the comments see the Byzantines as the true Romans was because of the Roman Emperor Constantine's decision to move the capital of the Roman Empire to Constantinople. Constantinople was referred to as "the new Rome." While the western Roman Empire died out due to Germanic tribes, the eastern half continued on but had to put up with various Muslim empires until 1453 when Mehmet II dealt the final blow.
one word describes the HRE best and that is : clusterfuck.
I prefer calling it "The Holy Mess"
A good French or Swedish invasion takes care of it.
Prince of Orange
I think we all owe Napoleon and Otto von Bismarck for making geography lessons so much less...painful.
marvelfannumber1 I would say thank them for having German Geography lessons at all.
marvelfannumber1 Holy Roman Empire not holy mess .
There seems to be such negativity about the HRE and how decentralized it was. However, it was a far freer and pleasant place to live in than England or France, where getting on the wrong side of the central government was a literal death sentence. Yes, the lack of a central army was crippling in an age of increasing militarism, but the dozens of mostly-autonomous nations allowed for the preservation of distinct cultures as well as a level of economic freedom which provided continued prosperity despite the lack of colonies to exploit.
I personally feel that the world would be better off if every country was organized along the lines of the HRE with minimal central authority and maximal local autonomy.
Idk if it made any difference for the individual if it was the emperor who wanted your head or your local count.
But in the case of Martin Luther you are right: it literally saved his ass that the emperor couldn't execute him whereever he went while his lord Frederick the Wise of Saxony shielded him.
We need more devolution of power to the local level.
Kind of like a bunch of states being united? I’ll call the new country the United States of Rome
@@altoids79762 The US is far too centralized as well... States have virtually no power in comparison to the federal government.
Well balkanization of europe is the future... tiny nations with no power alongside mother monster russia
1 thing to remember about that overused Voltaire quote is that by his time the hre had completely changed and was nothing like what it was 800 years earlier
Voltaire: The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire
Also Voltaire: A witty saying proves nothing
Tells you all you need to know there.
Just for debate... How big of a headache and fucking atrocity would it have been if the HRE survived into industrialization?
I'd be dead of chronic migrane overdose.
Best guess would be that it would have broken down into Germany and Italy due to the rise of nationalism within both regions which would prevent any headaches for map makers today.
Pretty much, maybe we could have seen a South German Federation on the part of Austria.
My brain would be like Islam, a piece there, a piece there, and another piece there.
I see one of two routes:
(A) The bigger states start swallowing up the smaller ones in a version of European colonialism.
(B) There would be a lot of city states formed in a "Central European Union" of sorts. All independent, but sharing open boarders, currency, and trade deals.
Now the title of "least truthful name of a nation" goes to the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea".
They vote, Communism is the will of the people, it has a constitution, and is in Korea.
[Air quotes] "Vote". "Will of the people." "Constitution." "(Half of) Korea".
You have been banned from /r Pyongyang.
Niel Relatado stalin betrayed the revolution
Before 1949 china was ruled by the nationalists and there government was called republic of china and during the closing phases of the chinese civil war the republic of china retreated to the island of Taiwan
I don't agree on the criticism of feudalism at the end. When the feudal hierarchy was strong the emperors were the most powerful rulers in Europe... The German kingship took some serious blows over the centuries, such as the inability to establish a hereditary monarchy, the many civil wars among the most powerful families for the kingship, the reformation, the rise to power of territorial states within the empire.
The problems arose when it got less so a stable hierarchy and more of a disunited mess.
Yeah this option in the voting contest won by almost a landslide. Enjoy!
Thumbs up for your extensive use of the word 'Stupid'
Love it!
In Italy, we learn that the Holy Roman Empire was "roman" because they adopted the roman Corpus iuris civilis, as Code of legal rules to govern the State.
EmperorTigerstar What about the other videos from the vote? Any plans for them?
EmperorTigerstar can you PLEASE map the Texan Revolution?? That would absolutely make my year
Polish Commonwealth (Union of two crowns under elected monarch with a noble-packed Parliament that could be shut down completely by a single veto) laughs at HRE's pretentions to unmatched political lunacy. Niemcy cannot into true political incoherence.
Parliament that could be shut down completely by a single veto
that's crazy
Don't forget that Poland had the highest rate of nobles in all of europe, I think it was up to 9 percent of the population who were nobility.
wilhelmrk and that makes it better
I've always said that the only reason the HRE survived for so long was that it bordered Poland.
HRE can into Poland.
boeftim
I wouldn't say better, just.. uhh.. easier to draw the lucky birthnumber in poland.
0:52 Charlemagne actually just got the title of "Roman Emperor"
Yeah, there wasn't ever the actual title of "Holy Roman Emperor"... the only "holy" thing was the empire itself. But it's a handy way to differentiate the medieval and early modern German emperors from the ancient Roman ones.
I think a big mistake that lots of people often make is assuming that the 843 Treaty of Verdun marks the end of Charlemagne’s empire. That’s like saying the Roman Empire ended when it split into western and eastern administrative halves. In reality, the Carolingians continued to regard their lands as part of a wider unit and held least 70 summit meetings between 843 and 877 alone. The reason people like to view 843 as the end date for Charlemagne’s Empire is that later 19th century historical convention tried to define the treaty as creating distinct nation states, which of course is just ridiculous (little off topic but it’s why I much prefer history being told in terms of regions rather than nations as the latter will twist history to try to fit it into a nice neat pattern of national development).
So when Otto I became emperor in 962, what it really meant was that the Kings of Germany would now hold the title of emperor as opposed to the Kings of Burgundy or Italy (all of which were still part of the HRE, it’s just for now on the German kings held the definite right to being emperor). The HRE didn’t just end in 843 and restart in 962, its institutions were continuous from 800 to 1806 even if there were periods of interregnum in which there was technically no official emperor in power.
Before even watching this video, i need to say this
''country''
The most country-like country that isn't a country.
Your comment that electing the emperor undermines the concept of monarchy is incorrect. It called elective monarchy and is an ancient concept that was used in many places in Europe long before the HRE. For example England had it until 1066.
That's true, however it didn't use to be the case under the Merovingians and Carolingians. The elective part become a necessity in the 10th century because there wasn't one tribe our house to wield enough power to establish a hereditary monarchy. But they sure tried...
It isn't an absolute monarchy then.
trevor bgs Most monarchies weren't...
MacX1985, I never said most were at that period, at least in Europe.
The Pope is an (and the last existing) elected monarchy because the Pope is the king of Vatican City and elected by the Cardinals. Elected monarchies exist and are just what happens when you have a king that fails to centralize power.
Vatican city has to do with that the king (Pope) is and has always been an elected position. (Well, unofficial until 1059.)
I found your video to be not very helpful. For a start, you are way behind the curve when it comes to recent historical research and thoughts about the HRE. It did, after all, survived for 800 years and was able to adapt to high and late middle ages, the renaissance, and the early modern era, before being brushed aside by Napoleon when it became - and that bit is true - merely an vessel for Habsburgian dynasty policies (also, Napoleon wanted to be emperor himself). But you can't really describe something that was around for so long as a failure. Let's see if the USA are still around in 2.500 AD....
*US SURVIVES FOREVER*
*15 Trillion years later: The United States floats alone in space, earth was destroyed millions of years ago*
"It's complicated" could've been the HRE's national motto.
Firstly: Elected kings were the norm during the early middle ages!!! England had it until the Normans ruined everything. Sweden had it until 1544, and Denmark had it well into the 17th century.
A king is simply the Germanic term for the leader of a nation, nothing more.
Smygskytt #1 Poland - electing monarchs because fuck you
*****
France was technically elective for a very long time though, just that the kings usually appointed their sons co-rulers while still alive.
The system of an elective monarchy was the norm for all Germanic tribes, and its presence in France was a vestige from the Franks.
Concerning Scotland and Ireland, the system of tanistry has similarities with an elective monarchy, but the Celtic clan system makes the HRE look well organized. Yes, medieval Ireland was a bigger clusterfuck than both Poland and the HRE. God help us all!
Do you see that the elective monarchy was very common now?
I agree but i have one correction, Denmark had it but you could only elect members of the royal family.
France was also one of the weirdest countries in my opinion in the medieval times, in the sense the king himself barely even controlled any land to begin with and the rest was just a bunch of other related houses. No one in this messy patchwork even thought of themselves as a unified nation.
France did have a sense of nationalism from early on, at least in Neustria. You can read about how after a few hundred years of Frankish rule a whole lot of their subjects refered to themselves as Franks, even before Karl... However it is still a mystery to me how French spread their sense of nationhood on Normans, Bretons, Burgundians and Corsicans.
You may thank the French Revolution for that when they basically invented nationalism.
Well, they didn't, not until the 20century when compulsary education brought the doctrine of francité and republicanism to every corner of the nation. For example, before 1920 it was not uncommon in Brittany to meet people who didn't speak a word of French. Linguistical transition however went very fast after that, especially with the appearance of television. You have people above 80 who only speak Breton, their children are bilingual, and their grandchildren are usually monolingual French. Nowadays you'll hear Arabic more easily than Breton in Rennes and other cities.
The Corsicans still claim independance till today.
The Burgundians are different, since they allways considered themselves French (altough nominally part of the HRE) , France was divided into two realms and Burgundy simply tried to obtain the French crown from the king in Paris for themselves.
So did the king of England by the way, who called himself also King of france until 1802!
Erik Roggeman That is very interesting. Why didn't a national revival happen?
What I remember from my lectures at uni, in the late High/Late Middle Ages France was the most centralised large monarchy in Europe. Doesn't necessarily pertain to identity, but in terms of institutions and structure it was the most 'proto-nationy' out of the medieval European states.
You could have talked about the Empire without calling it names.
Yeah, but they kind of mangled it since your days. Trust me it earned a lot of those names over time.
Hello Uncle
"Not holy, nor roman, nor an Empire"-- yeah, in *Voltaire*'s time. Seriously? The HRE was a big fucking deal for hundreds upon hundreds of years, and only really fell apart on the tail end.
Prussia was never part of Holy Roman Empire. Brandenburg was. The Electorate of Brandenburg gained the duchy of Prussia (which was outside of HRE) through political marriages. Prussia was then a vassal of Poland. After Brandenburgians gain the duchy of Prussia, and later declared themselfs kings, they had to call themselfs Kings IN Prussia, not OF Prussia (because Brandenburg was a part of HRE and they were vassals to the Emperor).
There is common misconception that the Byzantines were "descendands" of Rome. But in fact, they were Romans. It was only western half of the Empire that was conquered by the barbarians, while eastern part lived on. Their state didn't collapse until the fall of Constantinople in 1453. "Byzantine" Empire wasn't a successor state of the Roman Empire, simply because... Roman Empire didn't cease to exist. There is a continuity from the acient times up to the late medieval period. They could have spoken Greek, but does it really make a difference? A Welshman can see himself as a British person. There are people of many ethnicities using countless languages in the US, yet all of them consider themselfs American.
Same thing with Byzantines. They always called themselfs Romans, hell, Greeks consider themselfs Roman even today. Because when Rome became empire, it was always multicultural. Someone from Egypt or Gaul were as Roman as a person from Italia. Rome was never a ethnicity. People all around Mediterraan considered themselfs Roman, even if they spoke, for example, Coptic or Syriac.
Greek was always language of science and upper classes. Even Romans in the Eternal City itself spoke Greek. It was very prestigious language.
When western half of the Roman Empire fell, eastern part was mostly Greek, Coptic and Syriac speaking. After Islamic conquest, Coptic and Syriac speakers were absorbed into a Caliphate, while only Greek speakers remained in the Roman Empire. Naturally, empire became more and more Greek, but it never stopped being Roman.
When Charlemagne was crowned as "Imperator Romanorum", Romans in Constantinople were OK with this, they saw Charlemagne as a co-emperor. They viewed him as a barbarian, but they accepted his claim. Later the relations became somewhat worse. But there never came to full scale conflict over the title, as power of Emperors in Constantinople became weaker. By 1453, the Holy Roman Empire was the sole "Roman Empire".
While what Voltaire said was true, it was only so in his time. Early, X century HRE was more centralized and powerful. While HRE in XVIII century was indeed "Neither Holy, nor Roman or an Empire", it wasn't always the case. Ottonian period differs much from the later ones. During the long period of Interregnum, dukes became more and more independent, resulting in the Empire as we now think of when we hear about Holy Roman Empire. By Voltaire's time, Empire was very corrupt and decadent, hence Voltaires view of it.
Vitalis which is why I said Brandenburg - Prussia, not Brandenburg, Prussia. Sorry if it was hard to tell.
What i would like to add is that the inner religious conflict in the 1500's and 1600's had destroyed the authority of the Emperor almost completely. The HRE was already fucked because of the reformation and devided country side between protestants and catholics, but the 30 years war killed it in my opinion.
After these events the HRE was more like a living illusion. Later with the rise of Prussia in the east and France in the west during the 1700's and 1800's; all what remained of the HRE's former glory was Austria and south Germany. In my opinion the true end of the HRE is the german unifaction wars in the 1860's. ( Bavaria lost it's independence in it... i cry every time ).
Imagine a world where the HRE lives on still today. No militaristic prussia = No ww1 and ww2. For me germanys real capital is still Vienna. But maybe that's just my opinion, because we bavarians still hate north germany or "prussia" to the guts.
Well on the end of day i would rather say: "For the emperor!" instead of "For Germany".
Wysey
It is interesting to note that the Habsburgs, particularly the Lictinstine Branch, remain natural, popular political geniuses to this day, with most members having successfully run for office of one sort or other in their communities. Basically, the only difference is that the eligibility of their voter base has gone up.
Indeed, the Reformation and the 30 Year's War sent the HRE into terminal decline. Gustav Adolphus and Richelieu both wanted a weak Germany and so prolonged the war by fighting on the side of the Protestants.
Vitalis In one point you are wrong. Not everybody in the Roman empire was Roman. Only the Minority were. To become a roman as a germanic was a big honor and had many benefits.
- Crushing the holy roman empire with Napoleon - Only 1800's kids will understand
"Holy Roman Empire" wasn't even mention single time in one sentence during it's existence, every treaty and every law ever made by HRE it always call itself as "The Empire" or "Roman Empire", only twice it's call themself as "Holy Empire", but never "Holy Roman" Empire.
The term "Holy Roman Empire" itself established by Austrian Emperor Franz II / Emperor Francis the 1st (he also the last Holy Roman Emperor and the first Austrian Emperor) to differ himself between his position as "Austrian Emperor" and his former position as "Holy Roman Emperor", just like historian call Eastern Roman Empire as "Byzantine Empire" after the fall of western Roman Empire, even thought "Byzantinian" never call themselves as "We are Byzantines" they always call themselves as "Romans" until Constantinople fell to the Ottoman.
I didn’t even know this existed! Thank you for your videos
Whats your beef with Feudalism. Who doesn't like kings and queens and noblemen and ladies and knights and feasts and succession crisis ? Or Emperors and Shoguns and Daimyos and Samurais ?
It's mainly just a joke. But sometimes it does suck when making maps.
Anyone without a title and or wealth. Peasants, serfs and peons of every stripe and nationality.
Olvirki serfdom?
Torin Jones hahahaha that was a joke. of course there were revolts. but stopped with blood. actually people they didn't really have choice. I advise you study more history
Torin Jones ~ I'd like to introduce you To King Louis & Queen Marie Antoinette... Oh wait, I can't, it seems for some reason those revolting peasants cut their heads off. Hmmm... You know, I don't think I've ever made a hash of someone's ignorance so quickly.
Poor Eastern Romen senpai.
The longest lasting phase of the Roman Empire, yet the one everyone (*cough* Catholics *cough*) ignore.
The Byzantines basically had some arguments and conflicts with the Pope, which led to their split, then fall.
Well, to be honest, while it's very impressive that they lasted so long, by the 8h century they weren't at all the superpower they had been with Augustus, or even Justinian. And after the Fourth Crusade they were just a shadow for the last two centuries.
Catholic and crusader assholes ruined them instead of helping them.
Crusaders actually helped muslims more then they ever did Christians.
jmiquelmb, actually they experienced a revival in the 10th-11th centuries where they once again had the strongest army and navy in the east and Mediterranean. In fact, they where able to conquer northern Syria and control Aleppo for the first time in centuries. From there incompetent leadership and the strength of the Seljuk army put East Rome on the path of decline.
History between the Latins and the Byzantines is a lot more complicated than that. Extensive watching of Real Crusade History involving the Byzantines so show ya.
I am a Citizen of Swabia and I am offended by your insults against the historical political system my ethnicity used to be part of for almost 1000 years.
Ente Fetz im poop
Über Baden lacht die Sonne, über Schwaben die ganze Welt
I like the HRE :)
The Holy Roman Empire was hardly the weirdest "country" of its time. If anything it was one of the least complicated entities of feudal times.
poor east Rome. it's always ignored
***** yeah I know about the rivalry. But is kinda stupid that they chose a franko-germanic kingdom over Rome itself
Don't say poor East Rome. They were richer, happier, and healthier then the population in the West. Eastern Romans never had to deal with Feudalism. They kept the classical ideals alive until they were conquered by the Ottomans. Even Ottoman rule was better than Feudalism.
Novusod they basically didn't have the Renaissance but they did have a slow 1000 years decline
That's because they were more Hellenic than Roman.
Martin Ledermann yes but they were still Rome. They were the remnant of the empire and even considered themselves roman
the holy non roman non empire
the *non holy
So what do we call it then?
The Non Holy Non Roman Non Empire
Spiniiosa☯ That's better.
But it was an empire, just not in the we think of Empires today. The HRE was a uni-continental empire, meaning it only held territory on one continent. The HRE had all the characteristics of being and empire: it had lots of land and had lots of different ethnic groups living within its boarders.
This is one of the funniest and most sarcastic videos I've seen in a while....EXCELLENT WORK !
This is my favorite video on UA-cam.
Austria was the leader of the counter reformation so technically it could still call itself Holy.
Roman refers to the Roman Catholic Church.
In practice the emperor was often obeyed by most of the empire until 1648, varying by emperor to emperor. And this isn't even uncommon in monarchies; for example the Duchy of Burgundy was almost always an enemy of the King of France, which didn't become very centralized until Louis XIV.
I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "Frankia" btw, good video though
Yeah, because it's the empire of the "Franks" or Frankish.
Not, it´s Francia like in Spanish.
Lupetto Versilia Wasn't the C in Latin always pronounced as a hard K in earlier times? I'm not sure when the change took place. That is where "Kaiser" as "Caesar" comes from.
Lupetto Versilia Yeah, I understand. Your English is pretty ok!. Though, whether it had changed by the time of the 10th century, I suppose that is the question
Most Spanish say Franthia... that's definitely wrong ;)
I love this video, you should do more of these, its amazing. Also I like your voice. :3
Rome:
Am I A Joke To You?
Charlemagne was technically not the first Holy Roman Emperor, that term was first used for Otto I in 961. Charlemagne was given the titles "Augustus and Emperor" while at the same time keeping his German title: "King of the Franks and of the Lombards." Later Emperors like the Ottonians claimed Charlemagne as the first Emperor because it gave them legitimacy.
Correction of a mistake:
the King of Germany ( the Guys that always got Emperor ) always got elected.
The other way around: The election was for "Roman King". He then had to travel to Rome to be crowned emperor (which not all kings did). We call them "emperors" nonetheless, even though they technically weren't. Only since the 16th century they abolished the need to go to Rome, and the elected King became Emperor basically automatically.
varana312 No, those that did not get crowned by the pope arent called emperor
Example: King Konrad III.
Otherwise, i said the same thing as you did
Actually that was before the Golden Bull. You both are right depending on the time you are talking about.
This was very enjoyable. Thank you.
when i look at a map of the HRE with all the little countries in it, i get a mapgasm from it
i like those video... make more of this...not only mapping
I hate to brake it to you but not only the Emperor but the German kings in general got elected. It's an old tradition from the time when the germanic tribes choose their leaders. Also the HRE was not a country. It was a confederation of countries. What's so complicated about that?
nope, first of all the emperor was the king anointed by the pope. second this does not refer to old germanic traditions but was introduced 1356 with the Golden Bull decree. In the times before 1356 the oldest living son was usually crowned as king. but hey, things can get a little bit messy if the dukes are stronger than the king, or even worse the royal blood line get extinct.
No No No. The Golden Bull decree came into being to finally implement who elects the king. The Kings in the german lands were always elected or chosen by the aristocracy. This goes back to Otto the great and beyond.
well, see if they elected a king because the former dynasty vanished (in this case Louis the Child, last ruler of the Carolingian DYNASTY - do you know, what dynasty means?) this means not a electorial monarchy. i fact you mentioned Otto the Great who followed his father on the throne. that's called hereditary monarchy.
I know what dynasty means. Never the less, there was no ensured succession in German kingdom. The kings *dependet* on the loyality of the aristocracy, which wasn't always are sure thing. There were many ocasition were Germany was ruled by counter kings.
Btw. Google doesn't hand off your messages to me. Makes my immediate response difficult.
Love yours videos man ! Keep them coming!
Voltaire was wrong, the HRE was like a giant feudal system. And like feudal lords they were semi independent but declared allegiance to the emperor
why so much hate on feudalism? it's so fun, i have come to love the middle ages studying history just because of the complexity of it
hey, the mongolian empire is weirder if you look at it.
they are always the exception
*queue mongoltage*
Romania means citizen of Roman Empire if I am not wrong, and they are the ancient Dacians, not the Romans. (Althought they have been conquered by them.)
Aizec300 most of the dacian tribes were settled by the romans near the fall of the western empire, back then it was starting to be common practice to recruit barbarian tribesmen under the empire's protection, so the byzantines generally accepted tribes to settle on their lands
Aizec300 Romania is propagandic name.Byzantines(and some Hre emperors i think) called his country "Romania" it has nothing to do with the 19.century(and today) existing Romania.Romanians before that were called vlachs.
Nice upload, thank you.
I've been looking for a channel like this for a long time niice
Hey, if you are interested in history - read a book about the matter, or go look articles written by historians. As someone who has done a fair share of reading and listening to lectures on the HRE, this video is utterly horrible.
Haha! I will do that. I thought it was interesting that a warrior cats fan was making history videos.
Okay so let's call everything we don't understand "stupid", "dumb" and "insane"!
i am glad, my schoolteacher wasnt a jerk like tigerstar. makes me sad to see 600 years of history explained in a 5min comedy video
I feel like it was more "let's call everything we don't like stupid"
Okay, you're stupid! Am I doing it right?
If you want to say you don't understand what I wrote, you're doing it perfectly right!
Yay!
when I was a kid I always thought germany was called somehting like germania or something like that in medieval times.
I was very confused when I heard it was called "Heiliges römisches Reich deutscher Nation"
"War to end all wars" this phrase could easily roll off the tongue, doent it?
It took me to long to see that message you flashed at 4:36 " Unless your the IRA"
HRE: Me am the successor of Rome.
Byzantines and the Ottomans: That’s cute.
0:12 "The Holy Roman Empire was amongst of the dumbest and weirdest countries ever made." - A guy who has a cat in a pickelhaub as his avatar.
Weird can be good :)
Yeah. And this "dumb" empire lasted for almost 1000 years
I love the fact that there is a semi-big youtuber that has read the Warriors series
Actually, Francis II abdicated and dissolved the Holy Roman Empire (or what was left of it) so that Napoleon could not claim the Holy Roman Imperial Crown for himself, because, despite ist loss of actual power, the titel and regalia still held enormous prestige even in the last phase of the Empire.
Anyone here play EU4?
You know it
The history of the Empire and the internal struggle is a lot more complicated than EmperorTigerstar shows to us:)
www.chapelcomic.com/17/
Me. Love that game.
I main Ming
yo bois
Feudalism is great, it was a holy roman empire, liking less states due to map preference is so stupid and blind
Imagine going from Berlin to Rome and pay toll every time you get in another county
I'm doing Tudor England rn so this cleared a lot up, thanks!
The Hapsburgs sound like the midieval Clintons
Habsburgs*
Tobias in german its "Habsburger"
lady love Habsburger in english means something that is made by the Habsburgs, or someone who is of the Habsburgs, or a place that they have occupied etc.
Tobias i know that, i only wanted to say what it is in german, i dont want to say "habsburgs" is wrong, i am just saying that @Jack s comment wasnt completly false. Sorry if i am wrong here, please dont hate...
Tobias i know that, i only wanted to say what it is in german, i dont want to say "habsburgs" is wrong, i am just saying that @Jack s comment wasnt completly false. Sorry if i am wrong here, please dont hate...
This video was uploaded on my birthday. Well, I guess I can learn about the weirdest nation in history today.
nice name
Aren't you the king of Belgium who abused Congo and used as his own?
Dinex Origami yeah he is
MiguelPmpM Yes, obviously I'm not acting as King Leopold II
How can you, he wasn't born before you were dead. #Albert I
when your mom thinks you're doing homework but you're secretly trying to reunite the holy roman empire
Love the channel name XD
EU4 is great
Holiness ain't free, kiddo. The streets of the empire has got to be littered with the blood of the French. Karl der Große and not Charles la magne, OK?
One of the Emperors declared that everyone was entitled to a mug of beer a day though. At least there's that.
this video is a masterpiece
The Byzantine empire should be called Holy Roman Empire
Byzantine empire has nothing to do with roman empire! their capital was in the fucking Turkey!!! within bizantine empire there weren't even people speaking latin or languages related to latin, and yes only chatolics can be "holy" according to the standards of the time since Pope is chatolic and the term "holy" indicate that the emperor has the approval of the Pope! The true Roman empire was the western Roman empire remember that!!
Internet entity i have the feeling u are Greek! Am i wrong? I am Italian and i have much respect for Greece from the ancient times to these days but please don't claim our history, don't say that the Roman empire was a greek thing, because even if it was greatly influenced by greek culture, The Romans, in the end, developed their own culture. Latins were NOT Greeks!
The greeks had their settlements in southern Italy and Sicily not in Rome!
Relupo.
Firstly, I have my doubts on you being Italian, considering you can't even spell Catholic, and claiming that you're from a nation does not boost your argument. Second, Anatolia was just as European as France until the siege of Constantinople, so it's not Turkey, the same way Spain is European because is isn't An Andalus anymore. And while Latins may not have been Greek, a vast majority of the Roman Empire such as Aegyptus, Judea, and Dalmatia were as Greek as Constantinople and Athens. They were Roman. Yet they were culturally Greek. The lines between Greek and Latin are fuzzy, so you have no excuse for making them black and white. So yeah... Your argument fell on its face faster than the Western Roman Empire.
New Philosopher,
i am italian and i don't understand why the fact i misspelled the word Catholic in ENGLISH may lead you to think i am not, since that word in italian is spelled "Cattolico", anyway thanks for let me notice it. About the topic instead, all i wanted to say is that even if Bizantine Empire had indeed his roots in the roman empire, with time they became something very different both in cultural and religious aspects
First of all, I knew that Catholic was Cattolico. I have family in Italy. However, nowhere in English or Italian is it it spelled Chatolic. However, maybe English isn't your strong suit, so I'll give you a pass. Secondly, just because the Byzantines were Greek doesn't make them any less Roman! The Holy Roman Empire was German ever since the beginning. I still think the Byzantines were the true successors.
I thought the Holy Roman Empire was unique, but oh well.
It is special in it's own way
Is there any difference between a duchy and kingdom besides being ruled by a duke or King?
Yes. A duke is usually vassal to a king.
You're skipping the other weakening part which was the great interregnum and what you're referring to is the Golden Bull which formalizes the election process
Two things:
-Napoleon did not end the HRE, but the Emperaor.
-Perphaps you need to read a bit more of history to understand why feudalism was important. Read in particular III century.
Who do you think made him? He never said feudalism wasn't important, he was poking fun at how complicated it was to understand it.
Napoleon made many thinks in his life. Disolving the HRE was not one of them.
I agree in the fact he did not say Feudalism was not important. I should have said that he did not understand why feudalism was so useful for the society.
Cheers.
Yes the Emperor himself knew that France would claim the Emperor title for himself. To prevent this from happening he dissolved the Empire (otherwise he would have been kind of a vassal of Holy Roman France) and created the Austrian Empire which later became Austria-Hungary which later epically failed in WW1.
So Napoleon didn't end the HRE, as I said.
it wasn't me it was Francis
Aaaaactually we were still fighting amongst ourselves Catholics vs Protestants here in Ireland officially until 1998 and unofficially still here and there up to today ... I mean Ireland does count as Europe right ?!
Otherwise awesome video dude 😎 !
Actually that is covered in the footnote when he says that part, the footnote however only appears for a single frame in the bottom right corner where it will be obscured if you hover over or pause the video.
Thank you Napoleon, very cool!
The feudalism bits are spot on xD