Bartók's Pitch Axis

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  • Опубліковано 10 лют 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 92

  • @eosborne6495
    @eosborne6495 Рік тому +18

    I would love to hear a conversation between Bela Bartok and Barry Harris.

    • @kamilpeteraj762
      @kamilpeteraj762 5 днів тому +1

      Seriously, man… Both cracked the code. Unbelievable that they arrived fundamentally to the same understanding of families of sonorities, living in two absolutely different epochs of music, with absolutelly different musical and cultural backgrounds. Mind blowing. I think this speaks to the fact that music is a universal language based on universal principles.

  • @rogerweafer2179
    @rogerweafer2179 Рік тому +8

    I was given the Bartok String Quartet box set back in the early 80's. It's always been a great way to open up my mind...without drugs of any kind!

  • @robbes7rh
    @robbes7rh 6 місяців тому +7

    There is no sound around 15:45 for the music examples of tonic/sub dom/dominant areas.

  • @boyisun
    @boyisun 3 роки тому +15

    I didn’t know axis theory is so deeply related with Jazz harmony. This is very informative!

  • @henryauden618
    @henryauden618 Рік тому +4

    This is so eye-opening! Thank you for bringing this topic up and explaining it in such a nice way.

  • @mintchoco5640
    @mintchoco5640 Рік тому +2

    I'm currently learning Bartok's 2nd violin concerto. There was something so oddly satisfying about it and this video explains a lot. In just the first phrase, the major minor duality is present. One of my favorite composers.

  • @vincentcalamatta6082
    @vincentcalamatta6082 3 роки тому +21

    Folk Music 01:30
    Circle of Fifths, 03:45
    Parallel C major/C minor 05:15
    Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet 06:00
    Stravinsky Rite of Spring - 07:00
    Jimi Hendrix Chord E7#9 07:45
    Major Minor Duality 08:25
    Chromatic Circle 10:00
    Tritone Relations 11:10
    Dominant/Subdominant groups 13:00
    Pitch Axis 14:15
    Cadence Sets (3 groups of 4 chords each) 17:15
    Beautiful Chord Progressions to try out at 18:00
    Harmonic Wheel 22:00
    Tonnetz 24:40
    Smells like Teen Spirit by Nirvana 29:20
    Giant Steps by John Coltrane 30:00

  • @kdakan
    @kdakan 3 місяці тому +1

    This is great info perfectly explained, and it has applications in any style of music. In summary the basic cadence I IV V I can be turned into very interesting xhord sequences by applying these chord substitutions: any chord can be substituted with minor or major on the same root, like Dm by D or D by Dm, also, any chord can be substituted with another chord either minor third interval above or below, or tritone apart, like C chord substituted with Eb or A or F# chord (or the same chords but minor ones, like Ebm, Am, or F#m).

  • @hawkbirdtree3660
    @hawkbirdtree3660 Рік тому +2

    I have "consonant tastes" and when I first heard Bartok's string quartets, I fell in love with his music, and I could not tell you why, this will help me. Thank you for posting this.

  • @everydayshowday5151
    @everydayshowday5151 4 роки тому +5

    29:23 wow!! You sir make the wildest ( andprobally basic) music theory a blast to learn.

  • @MehrdadEmadi
    @MehrdadEmadi 4 роки тому +11

    one of the most helpful videos I’ve ever witnessed in my musical journey ... many many thanks ... ❤️

    • @ThreeBeingOne
      @ThreeBeingOne Рік тому

      Same, most of vids are. Not sure if I want to share or keep secret. I still share with ambivalence though.

  • @exitthelemming145
    @exitthelemming145 2 роки тому +1

    Fantastic video that really prised open a rusty door in my head after all these years. Kudos to you sir. I am inspired.

  • @lawrencetaylor4101
    @lawrencetaylor4101 13 днів тому

    I will come back to this, I made it through the first half. I came very late to the music world, after 65 yoa. I'm working on keyboard technique for now, and am playing around with Diminished 7th chords and how to move out of them to each degree. I never knew that the three groups had names like this.
    Like I said, I'll come back.

  • @Katherinedelrosso
    @Katherinedelrosso 11 місяців тому

    I had a dream last night that I was speaking to a professor about music and the heroes journey. He started to give me a lecture on Bartok just before I woke up. So I found this video today and I have to say that I really love how you explain it and makes sense. Also, the song you created at the end is so cool I love how you showed the practical application and I can’t wait to create my own composition using this method. Thank you so much for making this video.93

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  11 місяців тому

      Thanks so much, all best!

  • @sigilaudio6615
    @sigilaudio6615 2 роки тому

    Where has your channel been all my life?! Going to change the way I write so much

  • @jacoponeroneproietti8529
    @jacoponeroneproietti8529 4 роки тому +3

    I think one useful thing to note is how the three possible transpositions of the octatonic scale perfectly reflect these three axes. Starting on C with the half/whole (C, Db, Eb, E, F#, G, A, Bb) mode we can see that we can play C, Eb, F# and A (both major and minor). All of them can also be played as dom7, 7b9/#9, min7, halfdim, dim7, m6 etc. If you transpose the scale up a semitone you will have the Dominant axis and down a semitone the Subdominant one. This can help create coherent melodies using this harmonic wheel.

    • @jacoponeroneproietti8529
      @jacoponeroneproietti8529 4 роки тому

      Now that I think about it... when you mix the 4 notes of any axis with those of another axis you will get a mode of the octatonic scale.
      T (C Eb F# A) + D (G Bb C# E) = the scale above
      T (C Eb F# A) + S (F Ab B D) = the half/whole mode of the C octatonic scale.
      This could have fascinating implications if used correctly!

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  4 роки тому +1

      @@jacoponeroneproietti8529 Thanks for the comments. Yes! It's remarkably fluent in that way (and links wonderfully with NRT if you are familiar). I cover a little of the fluidity here... ua-cam.com/video/WL69sIswU_w/v-deo.html

    • @jacoponeroneproietti8529
      @jacoponeroneproietti8529 4 роки тому

      @@miltonline Oh I didn't see that one. Will check it out immediately! Thank you for your content, you're the only theory channel that has made my brain melt recently (and that's a great thing ofc)

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  4 роки тому +1

      @@jacoponeroneproietti8529 Thank you and apologies!

  • @davidbluecame
    @davidbluecame 2 роки тому +1

    Impressive content in this channel. It deserves far more views and likes!! Thank you so much for these excellent videos!

  • @fviannaval
    @fviannaval 2 роки тому

    This has opened my mind A LOT. Thank you, sir.

  • @dorrianstone7264
    @dorrianstone7264 3 роки тому +3

    New sub! Amazed at the depth of Bartok, always wondered how he pulled off what he did! Just thought he was some kind of demented mad genius but this clearly shows more genius, less dementia. 😉
    I’m curious, seeing as Bartok is all about dissonance - any fans of VOIVOD here?

  • @magdalene2229
    @magdalene2229 4 роки тому +1

    This is such a clear and useful explanation of the concept! Thank you so much!

  • @PohlLongsine
    @PohlLongsine 11 місяців тому +1

    There's a nice way to use color that turns out to be a compelling metaphor to the primary and secondary colors in color theory: C, A, F#, and Eb are yellow notes; G, E, C#, and Bb are red notes; and B, Ab, F, and D are blue notes.
    Major and minor triads can be given the secondary colors of orange, purple, and green based upon the mixing of their constituent notes. These secondary colors correspond to the S, T, and D functions.
    This coloring has been called "Metaharmony" by Tom Glazebrook, who uses it in the context of the teachings of Barry Harris, but one could use it for Axis theory as well. They're isomorphic.

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  11 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for the reference and insight, I will explore that. Interesting to see convergent visions...

  • @franktruffaut4312
    @franktruffaut4312 Рік тому +2

    Fantastic!!!!

  • @tritonedelta3464
    @tritonedelta3464 3 роки тому +1

    While writing progression that incorporate an oscillation between those axis groups is fun and can be quite useful, the use of the terminology of tonic, subdominant and dominant for them is vestigial.

  • @Jazzmaster58
    @Jazzmaster58 6 місяців тому

    In Stravinsky"s case since the note is in certain octave I would see that as a bass displacement and give you straight away the Bartok example ,C Eb C E to illustrate the point, in Jazz is a very common chord which is C7 #9 that doesn't have the same function but has the same type of conflict. It's also very used in Blues, and Ravel uses it in the concert in G if I recollect. Very good video

  • @khaledarman5775
    @khaledarman5775 4 роки тому +1

    Once again many thanks for these clear explanations

  • @newatlantis2121
    @newatlantis2121 Рік тому +1

    Thank you so much, Milton !

  • @gilevansinsideout
    @gilevansinsideout 3 роки тому

    Ahhh Bartok, what a legend. Thanks for the great video

  • @Koropokel
    @Koropokel 4 роки тому

    the way you explain it, is perfect!

  • @tristanpaxton51
    @tristanpaxton51 3 роки тому

    New sub! This is all I want out of UA-cam

  • @kymjasmin755
    @kymjasmin755 4 роки тому

    Loved it too. Thanks!!

  • @innerphaze
    @innerphaze 3 роки тому +9

    Thank you so much for that work of art/genius. Totally blew my mind. I am new to music theory, so forgive my ignorance, but I have a question. I can imagine Bartok composing using this system, well because he obviously did, but do other people consciously do that? Or is it that it just sounds good? The part of your lecture that blew my mind the most was when you showed how “Teen Sprit” used the Bartok (is it cadence?) system. So, I began looking at some of the music I have been learning, and holy shit, it follows the Bartok cadence too! I have been trying to learn “Baby I’m a Fool,” by Melody Gardo, on guitar, for a few months now. Its pretty difficult for me, because the chords are pretty weird, but I love the sound, so I've been plugging away at it. Another thing I always thought was weird about her song was the chord progression itself, but I just kind of thought, “must be the jazz.” Then, after I watched your video I went through and looked at the chords, and god-almighty its Bartok! Here are “Baby I'm a Fool,” guitar chords:
    Ab6 Subdominant
    F#6 Tonic
    G6 Dominant
    Ab6 Subdominant
    F#6 Tonic
    G6 Dominant
    Ab6 Subdominant
    Abadd13 Subdominant
    Bbm7 Dominant
    Eb9 Tonic
    Ab6 Subdominant
    Ebm7 Tonic
    Ab7 Subdominant
    DbMaj7 Dominant
    Dbm Dominant
    Ab6 Subdominant
    And it even has the Major-Minor equivalence! Now I get it! Thank you! But I guess I am wondering If this is a thing people who write songs do on purpose, or is it that they are just doing what sounds good, and it just so happens that Bartok’s system explains it? Which sounds implausible now that I say it, but I just don’t know. Anyway, thanks again!

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  3 роки тому +7

      Many thanks for the comments and questions. (Ironically for me to say) but one would be wary of seeing all music through one filter. If you do so then any progression can be seen as either fitting or deftly avoiding said system. Bartok's system wasn't even articulated clearly by him (but one of his students) and if true it emerged organically rather than 'top-down' and there is much much more to his music than this framework. The Nirvana thing was intended for fun, and to show how it might be used to create all sorts of progressions in any style, and the connection to jazz harmony is compelling. The piece you mention however seems to be best met with the harmonic devices of standard jazz. I have lots of material on this which I intend to share when/if there is any time in the world! Many thanks for watching :)

    • @innerphaze
      @innerphaze 3 роки тому +1

      @@miltonline Awesome! can't wait to see!

  • @alchemysticgoldmind4164
    @alchemysticgoldmind4164 Рік тому

    Great Explaination. Thank you

  • @nicolasrioscardona
    @nicolasrioscardona 4 роки тому +1

    28:34 thanks for not to saying "power chord". By the way, what a magnificent video. Thank you doctor MIlton.

    • @raulpardomorales7994
      @raulpardomorales7994 4 роки тому +2

      What would you say is wrong regarding that term?

    • @komitaskomitaskomitas
      @komitaskomitaskomitas 3 роки тому +1

      Power chord is a useful term, no need to overcomplicate and use unnecessary words.

  • @Remour
    @Remour 3 роки тому +4

    I am absolutely MINDBLOWN from this concept, definitely worth the 30 minute watch. I have a question though, could you use this to analyze chords with modal interchange?

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  3 роки тому +5

      Thanks for the comment. No musical system is complete, and this concept as beautiful as it is - is but one way of looking at tonality. That said it could happily accommodate modal interchange in that - for example -
      in C such modal interchange chords as bII and bVIIm (from Phrygian), bVII (from Aeloian/mixolydian) and III (from Augmented Lydian) would belong in the Dominant group.
      II7 (from Lydian), Ivm (from Phrygian) would belong to the Subdominant group. bIII (Aeolian) and bV (Locrian) would belong to the tonic group. (If that's what you mean!)

    • @Remour
      @Remour 3 роки тому +1

      @@miltonline Yeah that’s exactly what i was referring to! I’ve been analyzing songs that I love that use a lot of modal interchange after I had watched the video and it made understanding their function much easier. Though, you mention there are other ways of analyzing such progressions with modal interchange, I’d love to know what they are

  • @walkingbassline
    @walkingbassline 4 роки тому

    Thanks! Great presentation.

  • @haikel527
    @haikel527 4 роки тому

    Think you great job, clear and methodic

  • @Jazzmaster58
    @Jazzmaster58 6 місяців тому +1

    There's a big chunk after minute 15 without sound, no one wrote so I assume is probably recent, check it out.

  • @pedroeustache5511
    @pedroeustache5511 3 роки тому +1

    I've been acquainted with Bartok's harmonic substitution system for many years (for example, the chords of my piece "TAQA' TIME", present here in youtube, came from me applying this system to the basic chords of "Mary Had a Little Lamb"), ... Yet your presentation here is absolutely super refreshing!!... (specially with the Nirvana & Coltrane examples at the end)... ABSOLUTELY SUPER BRILLIANT!! BRAVISSIMO!!

  • @QuidProQuoGroup
    @QuidProQuoGroup 2 роки тому

    AMAZING! thank you so much for this video!!!!

  • @ianlopes7485
    @ianlopes7485 Рік тому

    Great! Thanks a lot❤

  • @KieranGarland
    @KieranGarland 8 місяців тому +1

    i can barely hear any of the musical example from 14:58 onwards. is that a sound issue my end?! except for a few bars, the entire piece was silent, although i could hear all the voice over. feel like i'm missing something

    • @KieranGarland
      @KieranGarland 8 місяців тому

      regardless, absolutely wonderful video, thank you!

  • @SamMuirUkulele
    @SamMuirUkulele 4 роки тому

    Brain melty! Thank you!!!

  • @udomatthiasdrums5322
    @udomatthiasdrums5322 2 роки тому

    love it!!

  • @louchesimon
    @louchesimon 4 роки тому

    Man, thanks you very much for this vidéo

  • @AntHenson
    @AntHenson 4 роки тому

    Great explanation, thank you

  • @Sidekicc777
    @Sidekicc777 4 місяці тому

    this is gold

  • @rowanmackenna1683
    @rowanmackenna1683 Рік тому

    Great video, very good explanation! what's the name of the piano piece at 1:40?

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  Рік тому +1

      Thank you! It's Gyermekeknek (For Children) Sz. 42: Volume 2 - XII. Romance - "I Know a Little Forest" - the beautiful melody is taken from a recording and transcription Bartok conducted himself
      in November 1907 of a Slovakian girl (Matilda Kolárová) in then North-west Hungary.

  • @jimvandersteege
    @jimvandersteege 3 роки тому +1

    Aah this is such great info with beautiful examples. Thanks so much. Which piece is that from @12.15?

    • @jimvandersteege
      @jimvandersteege 3 роки тому

      Sometimes I find the cursor hard to follow with my eyes when youre making gestures. Maybe you could try one of those yellow circles around your cursor?

  • @kondorram9073
    @kondorram9073 3 роки тому

    Brilliant

  • @nigelhaywood9753
    @nigelhaywood9753 2 роки тому +1

    What's the 'H Move'? You mention it when you play the chords of E and C minor (I think)

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  2 роки тому +1

      It’s short for ‘’hexatonic pole’ so called because those 2 chords each make up 3 of the 6 notes of a hexatonic scale (in this case C Eb E G G#/Ab B). It’s included in NRT as it is a close voice leading with no shared notes (each of the notes move by just one semitone). Video on the topic in the pipeline…cheers!

    • @nigelhaywood9753
      @nigelhaywood9753 2 роки тому

      @@miltonline Thanks. I've never heard of these terms, although I'm familiar with the basic concepts. I don't know what the abbreviation NRT stands for either. If you're going to do another video about these things then hopefully I'll be able to take advantage of that to clear up these queries. I've read most of Lendvai's book so I am familiar with the Axis Theory and have been using it for a while. In fact I was using it before I consciously knew what it was.

  • @khaledarman5775
    @khaledarman5775 4 роки тому

    Very well many thanks

  • @MikeNichols50
    @MikeNichols50 3 роки тому

    Interesting that you referenced "Giant Steps"...

  • @RememberGodHolyBible
    @RememberGodHolyBible 2 роки тому +1

    Isn't the sharp 9 different than the flat third in tuning and function? The flat 3 is the third note in the scale and the sharp nine is an altered 2nd. The altered 2nd is higher in pitch than the flat 3. To have a major 3rd and a minor 3rd in the same chord is to imply two keys at once, which is not the same as having a sharp 9 and major 3 together, because in that case it isn't bi tonal, you are not expected to hear 2 different thirds at once, but rather a 2nd and a third.
    I only play in pythagorean tuning, so enharmonically the spelling matters when it comes to tuning. Is Fb fair game in the dominant group coming from C major? You would hear and have a difference in pitch between the E note in the C triad and the Fb note in the Fb triad. Is that going to sound bad? Does this theory account for spelling and tuning differences with spellings, or is this just something invented for equal temperament?
    The comma differences may limit which enharmonic versions you can go to without it sounded like your music suddenly went out of tune. Any thoughts? In any key having a limited number in each group may be necessary, but not sure.

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  2 роки тому +1

      Good questions! So I don't believe it's helpful to have any one fixed perspective.And yes, sharp 9 has a different implication than a minor 3rd. In some cases a sharp-nine is an appropriate perspective (for example if it is voiced higher and is used as an additional colour on a clearly major context).. Other perspectives/approaches might imply a minor 3rd (for example the Prokofiev chord with an A major chord over a C natural bass)

  • @selfscience
    @selfscience 5 місяців тому

    Finnaly, somone who can explain this thing.

  • @bribes_for_nouns
    @bribes_for_nouns 4 роки тому +1

    the ending made me lol @ so hard xD

  • @alfredgpogo5032
    @alfredgpogo5032 Місяць тому

    Since when is the dominant of the dominant subdominant?

  • @rogercawkwell5413
    @rogercawkwell5413 2 місяці тому

    #9 chord - no-one mentioned Miles Davis Kind of Blue 1959

  • @ludotex
    @ludotex 2 роки тому

    "I dont know it might work" ^^

  • @ize1000009
    @ize1000009 Рік тому

    What about 7th chords? Would we just change the dominant group chords from major to dom7-s with their relative min7 chords? Or would we also use dom7 chords when moving from a sub dominant group to dominant group? And what about half and fully diminished chords? How do those fit into axis theory?

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  Рік тому +1

      Each group contains 4 major and 4 minor chords, 4 dominant 7, 4 minor 7, 4 half diminished and 2 of the 3 possible diminished chords. This is covered in the later videos. Thanks for watching!

  • @alchemysticgoldmind4164
    @alchemysticgoldmind4164 Рік тому

    Yes I knew that would Hurt😂😢😂

  • @cochonoob
    @cochonoob 3 роки тому

    Hey Milton! I have come again and again since last year to use what you explained and I think I have an idea to unravel what you can't conceptualize for these wierd cadences between E and C that you call Goldfinger. When you concatenate the notes (E G# B and C E G) but understand the G# as an Ab it could be understood as an incomplete Harmonic major scale C D E (F) G Ab B. What do you think? Maybe it is more about your other video about octatonic scale?

    • @franktruffaut4312
      @franktruffaut4312 Рік тому

      The Ab being the flat 9 of G7 altered, then it makes sense, the flat 9 pulls down to resolve to the 5th of C

  • @oykuyank6685
    @oykuyank6685 4 роки тому

    Where is the page at 13:03 from? Amazing video :)

  • @Jazzmaster58
    @Jazzmaster58 6 місяців тому

    I stopped watching to write, so, there you go, next time I'll wait.

  • @SimonAJones
    @SimonAJones 4 роки тому

    242 my bookmark in this video rn

  • @Tabu11211
    @Tabu11211 2 роки тому +1

    Barry Harris felt this but could not articulate it.

  • @gabriskillo
    @gabriskillo 10 місяців тому

    foreman sent me here

  • @HexFent
    @HexFent Рік тому

    STD!

    • @miltonline
      @miltonline  Рік тому

      It’s okay I’m a doctor (of music).