Excellent video. I am a tech working on vintage audio and I can attest this is very true. I have many receivers with all the original caps. Often the culprit is one or more transistors and not the caps at all. When a customer brings in a vintage unit for a "recap" they usually never need it. I pull a few of the caps near the hottest part of the board and check those. I put them on my heathkit capacitor checker that could test leakage up to the rated voltage of the cap. If they pass that and esr then they don't need a recap. Actually, since caps usually degrade slowly, this test could give me a good idea of how long the caps have left on them. If a cap has a little leakage at it's rated voltage and 20% high on capacitance, a little low on esr, then it could last another 10 20 years. But if it can't even get to half it's rated voltage and the capacitance is near twice as high, esr is high, then they should consider a recap. I will also add that many receivers have caps that fail are all the same brand of capacitor, while others on the board from a different capacitor brand will be fine. I never did many "total recap" jobs. I recall a 1966 lafayette amp that was left in shed in hot Florida. That little amp had every capacitor dead, zero capacitance and was all rusted, resistors 50% high, outputs burned up. During covid I had nothing to do so I used that as a challenge to diagnose. I eventually got it working and it sounds great. It needed all outputs, all capacitors, a few resistors, two preamp transistors. It still looks awful, but sounds nice. That's one of the very few "total recap" jobs I had to do. If you have old equipment, power it on every now and then to keep the caps formed. Capacitors don't do well if they sit for decades with no voltage applied. Power on for maybe an hour every six months or a year to keep that electrolyte layer formed on the plates inside the caps. This will help extend the life of the caps. Keith
Thanks Keith! You certainly got my point in the video, thanks for adding your experience. I am originally from Florida, that humidity is a total killer of just about anything that gets left outside, especially electronics. I visited someone that collected all of the TOTL monster receivers and moved from the upper mid-west to Florida. Sadly, all of the receivers are in a screened off garage exposed to the humidity. It is already taking a toll.
I agree. I restore vintage gear as I hobby. My experience is that quality started to decline about 1980, so I decided not to touch anything made after that. I've seen electrolytics from the 40'ies that still measure perfectly.
You make a good point about recapping. When I first got into radio and hifi I recapped everything before even trying to turn on. Now I use a variac and only replace capacitors if they’re bulging or leaking. I have many 30’s era tube radios that work fine on original capacitors
Impressive collection! I was given a "low mileage" Sansui 7070 over 20 years ago by the original owner and since the pandemic & working from home still listen to it almost every day. I think one of the results of the connected nature of modern components (with Internet software updates, subscriptions etc.) has led to a "get it out the door before it's done" philosophy, but those products of old had to really be stable and finished before they were sent out into the world.
I have a beautiful Marantz 2330 which has never been recapped or re-lamped with LEDs. I contacted a local expert in San Diego who refurbishes vintage stereos. He said no, if it’s working well then don’t touch it. I’ve cleaned the pots, but the Balance slider is still touchy. It probably needs a pro to give it the once over and put it on the dyno to check the power output. For a receiver that hasn’t been updated, it’s a 10. Happily paired with JBL L100s purchased in 1977, with a modern crossover upgrade and new foam grills. Love the vintage stuff. Thanks for the great video.
Re-capping is probably more important when it comes to vintage speakers (crossovers). I heard a pair of vintage Sansui SP-100 horn loaded speakers (late 1960's) before re-capping and after re-capping, and the sonic improvement was noticeable.
Capacitors in low voltage areas, like speaker cross overs, are actually a lot less critical to replace, and I would actually leave capacitors in cross overs well alone. The parallel leakage is going to affect the high voltage stages of vacuum tube circuits, more than low voltage areas. Technology has improved, and you can get ome darn expensive capacitors these days, but the performance vs the price you pay is a marginal improvement at best and more often than not it's plecebo effect. Not saying your case was, as we don't know what speakers you recapped and the original crossovers may have been bargain basement parts. With a lot of high quality vintage speakers, the rebuilding a crossover will have little to no effect on the sound. Recapping a Tube Amplifier is not about gettign better sound quality as much as making the device electrically safe so you don't destroy tubes and output transformers, which equate to a very expensive repair.
I have a 1936 Silvertone radio with AM, shortwave and police bands. It belonged to my grandparents. I started playing with it in the early 60s. It has all original parts except for the green tuning eye display tube and the grill cloth. It quit working for a year and suddenly started working again! I have a Marantz 2220b and a Sansui 5050 from the 70s and they are all original too.
My experience with old stuff was (in the 1960's) finding an Altec 15-sector theater horn mostly buried in a back yard. I contacted the retired movie projector operator from where it came, and purchased the two huge matching electromagnet drivers, the Y-shaped bronze throat, the tube diode to run the drivers, and the amp (which I believe was also Altec.) I guess this was 1940's stuff, but it sounded better than any speaker I've heard since. I didn't have space in my living room to put the two cabinets for the four 15" woofers!
Great insight on the old stuff! In 1970 my dad's friend gave me in a pair of Dynaco Dynakit Mark III and preamp and two EV 15" drivers/crossovers/EV-T35's, and a Fairchild turntable. I had no idea how good that stuff was. Then into Pioneer to Luxman L100 to Kinergetics to Adcom to B&K and now back to Luxman L100. Love the vintage stuff for sure!
Well, I have both modern and vintage (up to the late 90s). The 60s and 70s did all just worked. BUT.. I can’t say it sounded too great.. After recapping with good quality caps it sounded great again. The 80s was already less good on cheaper gear, but a nice Luxman or something like that is still very nice.. From the 90s, still quite okay, especially the higher end stuff (and you are comparing the better older stuff as well) seems to hold out pretty well. Recapping of my 1991 Accuphase units still wasn’t necessary, but the late 90s Parasound did need them (it still worked by the way). From the 2000s up, there seems to be a strong separation between high end and consumer. The consumer stuff will most probably have failed already (2 NAD amps, a Sansui, Marantz, Pioneer and Onkyo all failed). But the modern high end stuff, like my tube amp, Accuphase, high end NAD, Naim, it’s really all still fine… So yeah. Upgrading caps on a vintage unit tends to make it sound A LOT better, as the older caps lasted long, but are quite imprecise. The modern caps are SO much better. Again, high quality caps seem to hold out fine, but cheaper caps just fail fairly quickly. It’s a pity, but yeah…
I don't think you'll get a lot of argument from most stereo people. I wish I knew a lot more then what I do, but I believe the move to have China build most of the equipment from 2000 on has made a huge difference in quality. Cheaper wire, pots and just knowledge of craftsmanship. You can't produce a product with the needs of high end stereos with only a few years and limited knowledge. Good video.
Greetings! New to your channel, subscribed today. I have a Yamaha CR400 that I bought new in the summer of 1976. Nowadays it resides in my workshop but stays on 24/7 other than a power outage. Still sounds great. I opened it a year or so ago and blew the dust out , that's about all I knew to do. Anyway, I found your topic interesting and will enjoy more of your content. Thanks!
Another plus about the older components is that their point-to-point hand wiring made most components easier to sub and replace when needed. Some of the new stuff has boards, chips, and odd parts that are hell to find and install.
Wow that Scott amp is killer. While my TV side is a Sony receiver, DVD player, and a Bose surround sound, speaker bar and speakers, my vintage equipment is a Marantz 2226 B receiver, a Marantz cassette deck model 2020 and a Sony CD player. Great video and very informative.Yep today's equipment is buy it, use it, and then chunk it for a new one, its a lot cheaper!
@@stereoniche I wish they would bring the silver faced equipment back, nothing is built like that Marantz of mine its a tank. But we've lost the charm of equipment, its just awful nowadays. Thanks for responding.
I agree about the recapping. I have a Pioneer SX-1250 that as far as I know has not been recapped. No issues with the caps in 2023. I also think these parts should only be replaced if they are failing - or when they are visually showing a clear sign of impending failure - such as bloating or leaking. The other thing I wanted to mention is that I appreciate the visual style of your videos. By that, I mean the clean look of your equipment, and the fact that I do not see wires and cables going everywhere. Something tells me you have taken steps to keep all the cables out of sight. I try to do the same thing in my audio/video setups - with all wiring hidden from view as much as possible. Thanks for sharing!
HI there. Thanks for the comments! I DO try to hide the cable clutter as much as possible. Not perfect, but I try to get the video focused just on the subject at hand which is the GEAR!
I don't subscribe to the notion that vintage equipment today should perform at the same specifications as when it left the factory. I think that undercurrent is what drives a lot of the interest in blanket re-capping. From my experience, opening up a vintage unit to make wholesale changes or "upgrades" is just asking for trouble. Fix what is broken and leave it alone otherwise. I am 66 years old and have gear that I purchased in my 20s. It still works - pretty well I would say, and for the most part performs better than I do these days!
I agree,,,,to an extent,,,, on the history of usage. A unit that is used consistently will stand the test of time and continue to work well. Ones that are stuck in the closet for 10-20 years do have the drying out as you accurately put it and poof. I see you are a Sansui person as am I. That 9090 in front of you, I bought one in Japan 1976 for $340. A lot of money for a E-3 Sailor at the time. Sadly, that unit is gone, (1990?) but I have since replaced it with a gently used 8080. It still rings my bells.
I've only ever owned vintage gear. So I was extremely excited when i was able to purchase new. I purchased an Emotiva preamp, power amp and cd player. In the first five years of ownership, the power amp went in for service twice, the preamp went in 3 times that I can remember and the cd player went in at least once. I later purchased their totl preamp thinking that maybe my original preamp was just a lemon. After a few months of ownership the input selector function became flaky. It got to the point where i always had this sick feeling in my gut that something was going to fail every time I used the system. I decided to sell it all and go back to my vintage gear. I'm not picking on Emotiva. They were very good about warranty work. It's just that they were my only experience with "new" gear. It was a bad experience to say the least. I know people who own Emotiva and love it. I'm truly happy for them.
Two Sansui units here, a 2000 and a 4000. The 2000 I have no clue about, the 4000 had a channel repaired in 1986. The caps are all original in the 4000, as I was in there cleaning it up and have the service records, as I bought from the original owner. The sound out of both units is something modern gear cannot touch, at least all of the gear I have owned. The 4000 is used daily, and is at the heart of my two channel setup.
Complete reccapping is for the future of the device. You dont want to pull apart a reciever every year to look for the odd failed cap. Renew every one at once and you will have 30 years of trouble free use. Some of the gear even needs transistors mass replaced now like the 2sc458.
@@MonguzTea yea , i have googled it a couple of time, but it only ever lists threads on forums with a small number of transistors. i was looking for a more complete list TBH. thanks anyway
Well, a complete recap of two of my moderate vintage amps did them well. I use a Sansui AS7700 in near mint state and a Luxman L80 mint in two seperate vintage chains. Both livened up significantly and gave me improved clarity and soundstage whilst maintaining the original warm sound profile. The Sansui had by measurement an increase from 52 to 67 WPC. Recap was done with prime Japanese quality capacitors according to manufacturers’ specs by my vintage gear enthousiasts repair shop of choice . For €400,- each, for me it was well worth the investment. Hopefully they make it for quite a long time, since I totally enjoy the sound they deliver in combo with either new Wharfedale Lintons or Hyperphon tweeters and crossover modded Linn Keilidhs.
One of the problems with new stuff is surface mounted circuits. A good example is the Sony SCD-1/SCD-777ES. The control board has a lot of surface mounted components. Back when you could get them repaired they would just replace the whole board and toss the suspect board. There are so many densely packed components on these boards that it is impractical to check each one for defects. Once the replacement boards dried up no one would touch them unless you had a donor unit. They dried up too and now you have $5000.00 Door stop. It’s a shame that manufacturers don’t continue to support these products. Through hole component mounting ensures long life.
Interesting view on wholesale recapping. So from what I'm hearing, dealing with evident faults like a bad channel, leaky cap, hums, scratchy pots and burnt out lights is all that is needed to get that quality sound again with vintage gear.
As with anything, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). The overall point is that, in general, caps seem to have been of better quality, on average, in vintage gear, but each unit should be evaluated independently for the best course of repair needed. By all means, if you feel your unit and budget are best served by a total recap, have at it. But I tend to think that in many cases, that is not needed. If in doubt, get at least the power supply recapped for more peace of mind.
I have owned many 70s amps and receivers. Aside from cleaning the units and the pots as well as replacing bulbs there were not any other problems. I had one pioneer 780 that needed a transistor and such but it was broken when i bought it. A few of my older tube gear did need new can caps but not the majority. The vintage gear i own now are still original. I tend to find mine at estate sales,thrift shops, and yard sales. The older gear i find works but most newer gear i see does not. I always check for bulging or leaking caps but have only seen it a couple times.
The biggest problem of new equipment is all the chips that operate it I had to turn down top of the line Marantz surround sound receivers because the blown chips aren't available any more
I have a vintage computer, and as I started it after ~20years of rest it run just fine - about one hour before a cap exploded. I asked in a specialized forum about this issue, and they already know this exact type of cap to be a mass failure. I replaced all caps of this type, and the machine runs fine since then. So: seems there were also good and bad components that days, but you see only the good ones today, because the bad ones are long gone.
I’m listening to a 1975 Marantz 2325, Klipsch k-horns on A, B are Klipsch Belle’s. For over 30 years I have been rocking. My Marantz get my air compressor every few years. I blow the inside out. Other than that nothing but pure music ! It still brings goose bumps on my arms. I doubt we see that quality today. At least that I could afford. Everything is Walnut, Beautiful and it Rocks ! You could spend a million dollars but you wouldn’t get a million worth of better music. It’s that good. Yes, mybwoofers , crossovers ect have all been serviced. Plus a powered M&K dub, 2x12” up front. Walnut. Everything matches and looks like furniture. Very nice furniture ! This is what I’ll be listening to , unless it dies. I can’t believe after 70 years there has been no real improvements in sound. Not that everyone can afford. Prices have gone Crazy! Even on old gear. People realize a recap could save thousands ! I battle over recapping because it still is Rocking and dead silent. To each their own. Music is a gateway to the Soul !
I had a McCormack dna1 fail due to what they said the pcb mainboard delaminating,my thought was damn i got pcb boards that are 50 plus years old that are fine,kinda reminds me of that astronaut guy ,we would go back to the moon but we lost that technology,Really!
I would still do a thorough test in place, component by component, where possible. Changing out known-issue transistors, OOS caps, transistors with black corrosion, checking components exposed to factory glue where the glue has led to corrosion, and reapplying thermal paste where appropriate. If I do a recap, it's with priority to the power section of the receiver. The rest is ad hoc based on an ESR test and physical check. Solid state rocks!
Well said it is generally on certain vintages/types of Capacitors that have issues. I often test new capacitors against what is installed often the older ones test/perform better. It does seem a fad all this recapping a lot of times it's just not necessary.
I had a 1970 kenwood amp. 400w. Weighed 110 lbs. and ran on leaded gas. Indestructible. I still have my first 5.1 Sony from the late ‘80s. Used it in the garage, dusty and extreme temperatures. Analog. Works great.
I have to say the older stuff was builded so much better than today! And the sound i bet the older stuff sounds better than the newer stuff out there. Not only that if it does not break down they can not sale a new one its all about the money. Cool video!
I almost bought an Odyssey Khartago. Based on this and what others have told me. I dodged a bullet getting something else. This one person told me that the build quality on his was crap and Odyssey would not honor their warranty. I have a NAD C340 Integrated amp that is at least 20 years old and it still works and sounds sweet.
@@boomcrash It was not my purchase, it was someone else's. Evidently this individual bought an Odyssey product that failed, and Odyssey would not honor their warranty. Crap build quality? Cheap parts, bad solder joints etc.
@@boomcrash I can tell you that over a year ago I gave Odyssey a deposit for one of their Khartago amps. I was told by Klaus at Odyssey to buy a multi meter. He was going to call me before shipping and ask for my outlet voltages so he could adjust the bias. Well he took my deposit and disappeared. I haven't heard anything from Odyssey since.
@@boomcrash Yeah I even contacted Odyssey telling them I got the meter, was ready when they were. About the same time I saw some suspicious charges on my CC. I contested the charges and had them credited to my account. I'm not accusing them of the bogus charges but the timing was certainly suspicious.
Have you ever thought about the possibility that vintage gear seems higher quality because all the defective units were thrown out years ago, leaving only the “good ones” for us to enjoy, while we’re in the time where modern gear is just starting to fail?
Actually, yes, it has occurred to me. However, I am also sadly quite familiar with the large volume of vintage gear that was just thrown into the landfill for no reason other than it was old. I think this is actually where the majority of gear went and not because it was faulty.
@@stereoniche It hurts to see all the vintage gear on ebay that has huge dents and scratches on it. I keep thinking "Who in the world could treat this beautiful gear that way??"
My old 70's valve based hifi, ('tubes'... are what we call the London underground rail network) still works perfectly..caps are all well within their operating range, valves have been replaced & it gets a good clean every year... & my vinyl & tapes still sound fuller & richer than any modern mp3 highly compressed source..
I prefer vintage all the way. I have a Sansui 7070 for my main stereo. In my bedroom I have a pioneer SX 535. I think they both look really cool and they just blow all the new stuff away. I’ve had two newer stereos and had a speaker relay go out and several other problems along the way. None with my Sansui. I did have a fuse, blow out on the pioneer, and a couple of lights, that’s it. Actually, this is a topic I’m very passionate about.
I like your perspective on this subject. Especially since you have such an extensive collection. I love the audio gear that was produced 45-50 years ago. I do not disagree with your opinion, although it can be a crap shoot. I have purchased several excellent condition vintage pieces from the 70s. I have had less success in terms of the components viability. Many have had some kind of problem. Either there is static in a channel or a function becomes inoperable. I have several 70s-80s McIntosh mint condition pieces that have had service.
I am really loving your videos and “sound” information- most glad to have found you! That said, and apologizing for my ignorance on this….what do you mean by “RE capping”? I have Klipsch speakers, KLF 10s to be exact, and I’m now noticing harshness on the highs- I DO INTEND to get new gear-most likely a Marantz 8015 or 7015 and get an Emotiva XPA 11ch amp-most likely Klipsch for my fronts, using my KLF 10s for the side surrounds- My question is-do you think I’m on the right track? I also have and old Sansui 7070 still operative that I’d sell to you- cause I GOTTA JUST ❤️LOVE🎵 all that equipment I see in the background as well! YOU, Sir, are the kind of guy I’d love to hang out with! I “think” we’d have quite a lot to talk about! Take care, Al
Hey Al!, Welcome aboard. So, "Re-Cap" is short for Replacement of Capacitors. There are essentially two schools of thought, one side recommends totally "recapping" any and all caps in a vintage unit, while the other camp (the one I and others are in) prefer to just take care of the ones that need it and/or include some critical areas like the power supply, etc.. On your audio journey, you appear to be focused moreso on a surround sound system vs stereo. That is absolutely fine, just not an area where I am well versed. I do have a small setup in my home, but it is quite modest being flanked by large stereo speakers. That 7070 is an awesome receiver that could be the heart of a very nice stereo setup. I could talk "stereo stuff" for days to anyone that stopped by (if I have the time). It just never gets boring, so much great gear and music to experience. Stayed tuned!
@@stereoniche Thank You Sir-and I certainly will DO! Yes, I am interested in surround, but am DEFINITELY CONCERNED AND CONCENTRATED ON 2-Ch Stereo-with all the audio codecs these days, you can have stereo coming out of ALL speakers or just your main fronts-that said, my primary interest in an A/V is a processor that will decode but make STEREO EXPLODE! The Klipschorns I first saw you review are prime examples, I believe. Where’s I have approx 250 surround concerts, I have approx 2,500 or more CDs-you do the math! ANY SUGGESTIONS on an A/V-Preamp (𝙀𝙈𝙊𝙏𝙄𝙑𝘼 XOA 11ch?!) setup would be “soundly” appreciated! I am 70 years and I’m not gonna try to just “get by”-I DEF WANT SOME CLEAN, NATURAL SOUND that WOWs me, as I do get the skin Ohs now! Also, thanks for the explain on the caps-and with that said, I have a pair of Klipsch KLF 10s that are 20 years old and seemingly now a bit harsh on the highs-at least to my ears. Any suggestions there? I DO want to get new fronts when I get the other equipment I mentioned and move the KLF 10s to the side surrounds-unless you think that some overkill or not the best idea as well. Totally enjoying your info videos, comments and I want to thank you for your response! Yours, Al
@@alanpoland7688 Hey Al! Well, when it comes to recommending an AV setup that is great at stereo, I have to admit, I really do not know. I can only recommend a forum like www.avsforum.com that may have a current thread on top AV receivers that also have great stereo. What I ran into is that I have some great vintage speakers that cannot realistically be paired with rear/center channel speakers to match their voicing. So, I actually use some smaller bookshelf AV speakers that sit on top of my large stereo speakers. That means I have a separate AV stereo and vintage stereo system setup for different roles.
I had 5 early 70's Pioneer, Sansui receivers working great! Only replaced fuses and deoxit pots..i believe in rotating them in my listening...they are stronger than today's fake watt ratings, looks far better than modern designs, sounds warmer, and i just use a gud Zen dac bt receiver to stream flac or play records. There's just something special interacting physically with vintage controls over lifeless modern remotes with cheap plastic faces. I've even replaced som side panels with real solid walnut with a little basic woodworking tools...so satisfying!
The Realistic STA-2150 that was our familly system amplifier in the 80's, while not quite an antique, I find has a quality that modern amplifiers lack. I replaced some of the caps in it, the main filter capacitors had leaked through the hole in the PCB on the bottom plate without causing any damage. I figure I will have to recap it completely if I want to keep using it, it still has a bad stench of leaky caps to it. I forgot to mention that it sat idle for quite a while, and sometimes not in the best conditions, it may even have been exposed to more humidity than what is considered ideal.
Two things come to mind: 1) Have you taken into account the survivor bias? That is, equipment made in the 1950's and 1960's that themselves became "door stops" are not available to you now (since they've long been junked.) You're buying the survivors. 2) Quality/luxury level: McIntosh was a luxury brand (as much as hi-fi had such things, certainly in the 1950's the so-called _high-end_ market of today did not exist), but the Emotiva brand you mention is mass-market and known to be sometimes of questionable quality. Compare today's McIntosh to your classic McIntosh. You can find many products in the high-end today in which construction is the pride-of-the-brand, to justify the (very high) cost. Beyond even MIL-SPEC. They are very expensive though.
Indeed. Modern day McIntoshes are also REALLY well built. They should easily last quite a long time.. And indeed, I used MIL spec caps in my tube amp, no problems, even after decades of intense use..
At least with silver faced gear, like the 9090 he uses as an example, I don't think survivorship bias applies. That gear was often just moved out of the living room to the garage because people didn't want it in there anymore. Or, the unit had some minor fault (like needed pots cleaned) and people never got it fixed. I only say this because of what original owners told me when I bought that gear.
@@paulv22 Perhaps, but here in the netherlands there is remarkable little left of the old stuff. European that is. Most Japanese stuff is still here and working though...
While I do agree the better brands of yesteryear were premium then as well as now, I think most vintage gear made it to the landfill simply because it was considered "old" and not because it was non-working. In general, I think most passive components, overall, are simply not as good as ones made decades ago. Not that they cannot be sourced, but in total, the average quality has decreased.
@@stereoniche Well, quite possible. I used to have a really nice Sony amplifier from the late 70s that I threw away in the mid 90s. But that was because the amp couldn't deal with playing at a VERY high volume on my B&W speakers for hours and I blew up the power amp section. Later I realised that that might have been repairable, but this was before the Internet held all the answers.. But as I knew people who threw away all their vinyl and CD's (funny thing is they never threw them to me), so older audio equipment? It would surprise me if the same people also threw that out.. For the passive components... I think the current day components are MUCH more accurate (so recapping with good modern caps will most likely make the amp sound a good bit better), but indeed, far less long lasting. Still, caps from the 1970s should really be replaced, but the primitive ones from 1940s tube radios? They should be absolutely fine and perfectly in spec. So more primitive and less precise also might have to do with longevity?
My only Recent gear are Onkyo M504s.. All the rests is vintage ..is like this old gear develops a soul Product of the wisdom of those old engineers that are now in Audio heaven ..
Im all for recapping. But just gear thats worth the struggle. Stuff i use daily in my system is recapped etc. Someday theyll have to be recapped anyhow.
We have vintage and brand new Mac gear. It’s been trouble free. I thought I may have had an issue with our MT10 turntable as it spun slightly slower while playing. I called McIntosh directly in Binghamton NY and they patched me right through to an older gentleman at the factory. All it needed was a drop of the supplied oil to be placed under the magnetic spindle. Wala, good as gold. Also own vintage Carver and Sunfire gear. No issues. Thanks for the vid Scott.
7:00 I'd say survivor bias plays a large part, as you'll only see the gear that kept working, the other failed units much more likely to be binned years back (as much as that hurts to think about). In 2053, would an amp made in 2003 that survived for 50 years be considered lower quality compared to an amp made in 1973 that survived until 2023? 6:10 How does using a unit prevent the capacitors from "drying out"? I would think it would be the opposite, as power cycling and running the components at temperature would accelerate the process. It's not like a car AC that needs to be run to keep the seals supple. 7:55 The capacitor issues in the 2000s hit everything as the suppliers used a faulty electrolyte. There were also component problems around 2006 from the federally mandated move to lead-free solder (see the Onkyo and Yamaha AVRs for example) What about the glue many manufacturers used for their components in the 70s and 80s (?) that would age and turn acidic, destroying components and traces, or the dry and cracked solder joints that can plague older amps from heat cycling? Newer gear also have components that are made with fewer impurities, much higher tolerance, more uniform, run with much lower heat, and have surface mounted components that are less likely to fail. I'm not saying all new stuff is great either (*cough cassette decks*) as demand for good attainable hifi gear wanes and investment firms buy brands to suck the quality out of it for profit. But I think it's hard to compare older and newer gear with an unbiased view.
in our era of modern technology, successful consumer products began with high standards. then the pressure for greater revenue & higher profit margins from corporate directors and financial interests in competitive / growth markets drove attention towards rapid turnover & cost engineering. simulation tools, FEA & the like enabled engineering components, subsystems & products to the ragged edge of reliability over time. as the consumer middle class is under duress, so too is the market for new appealing high quality & lasting products available to them at reasonable prices. thus the "golden age" movement in many segments; cars, bikes, watches, cameras, furniture, etc. it ain't just nostalgia, given the participation of emerging generations.
Too many have fallen into a false sense of security with regards to bulging or "leaking" electrolytic capacitors, ascribing to the physical (chemical) evidence of leakage. While that is one aspect of a faulty capacitor, just as importantly is "electrically leaking" (leaking DC). That, and high ESR can be real trouble in the circuit. I have several H.H. Scott units and have always tested for these precise things. Many of the capacitors I found bad were in the bias circuit which, if left untouched, would have resulted in red-plating of the output tube(s) and possible destruction of the precious output transformers. Selenium rectifiers should be replaced unconditionally as they WILL self-destruct in dramatic fashion ... and you surely don't want to breath the smoke they emit. It's imperative a qualified technician take a good look at this vintage equipment to verify components are up-to-snuff to ensure these wonderful pieces persist well into the future.
I'm surprised that the fusible resistors on the Sansui 9090 aren't giving it problems. It's not all about capacitors going bad in vintage units. I prefer pre-1978 Pioneer units and the small transistors and tantalum caps might work in the units but they definitely degrade the quality of sound.
Indeed, there are certainly other components that can degrade over time and should be addressed as part of any long term maintenance. My point, overall, is that capacitors used in older gear seems to have had a longer "shelf life" than the average capacitors used today.
Power electrolytics do age and if they are handling current will eventually fail, better to replace them than wait and see of they take anything else when they do fail. New caps are much smaller than those used 40-60 years ago. New caps are better but I suspect they are more susceptible to failure because they lose their electrolyte formation if allowed to sit without use faster than the old style caps.
"I suspect they are more susceptible to failure because they lose their electrolyte formation" was the primary point of my video. I was not advocating to never recap, but that essentially, modern caps, on average, do not seem to last as long and to consider that when evaluating what to do with any vintage unit.
I no longer have a desire for the silver faced Receivers because over the years I've owned most of them and they are way too heavy for my bad back so I stick with separates . And most are from the 80s and 90s and have not had to replace any capacitors
Indeed, they are heavy. For that reason, I bought a lift Dolley so I can move them around. Best thing ever, but it is not practical for inside the home.
@@stereoniche I've bought and sold many of the monster receivers mostly in 1999 and I sold an SX1980 for $500 and maybe 20 SX1250s for $250 oh my present retirement would be oh so much better if I'd held onto a few till now but who knew LoL
The idea of re-caping old gear is far overated. I have two Marantz Model 250 power amps amps from the early 1970s. The only capacitor I have ever had to replace is a small value electrolytic used in the speaker delay circuit.
I like your video. I don't know when are the end years to be vintage amplifiers or receivers but i have a old litle Sony TA-AX310 amplifier from 1984 and he continue to work perfectly . I have try 3 or 4 new receivers 9 channels but to listening in stereo 2 channels and they are all have direct audio or Pure audio and the quality of sound are not good like my old litle Sony. why ? its so weird.
There is one vintage brand that's still going strong, that stands out like a sore thumb for being the most malfunctioning problematic brand I've ever experienced. Cassette decks, receivers, you name it. Years ago it even took out one of my speakers, (probably DC current leakage). The continued success of the brand I guess shows that reliability doesn't matter that much to a brands success. The most interesting thing to me about how older stuff was built was their usually bigger and beefier transformers. Escalated shipping prices might have prompted them to go smaller there to save on shipping, and that's usually what it sounds like; smaller and less beefy sound. Less warm also. The emphasis today seems to be on clarity and crispness at all costs. Balance and proper warmth seemed to be more the idea back then, with vintage equipment. Speaker drivers and cables seem to be where the biggest sonic progress has been made. Not that there weren't a few good drivers back then. Of course if you are willing to go high enough in price, you can get amps with big transformers and virtually anything that was part of the good old days.
@@stereoniche I don't wanna get sued. No...harm>>don. The receivers one channel would keep going out, and you had to keep getting up and jiggling the selector switch. I think it ended up getting me in actual better physical shape though. It was almost a relief when a time later, it made a speaker start squealing in a higher pitched tone like a pig. I guess that's what DC current sounds like. One cassette deck made some deep subsonic rumbling sound, even without a tape playing. The other cassette deck was running slow and singers actually had a noticeably lower pitch. The previous owner might have got it repaired and they might have put in a motor that needed to be a bit more powerful. The belts were fine. Someone once tried to sell me a portable cassette player at work; the singers voice sounded like their pitch was headed toward Tiny Tim territory. You'd have barely recognized him. I once bought a 8 track player and the motor (another repaired substitute I presume), must have been the culprit for making rattling sound. You could visually see the part of the 8 track that sticks out doing its rattling dance to the sound of a low rumbling noise. An old Infinity Emit tweeter caught fire once playing a Nutcracker cd. It was the Girgiev conducting performance on cd. Actually it is a great performance and I actually remembered sitting in front of my Christmas tree with a speaker on each side and clapping about 5 minutes earlier. The Paus de Deux was absolutely delightful. Before the top of the left speaker went supernova. I had the tweeter mounted outside the cabinet for more airiness. If it would have been in its usual position inside the speaker with all that foam stuffing; I might have had to find my cell phone quick.
You have to be careful with old gear from the 1960's or earlier, and reforming the filter capacitors is only one part of the process. The coupling capacitors between stages can leak DC power to the next stage, causing the tubes to draw heavy current. You won't know this until you see smoke coming out of the Output or Mains Power transformers. I would not trust the old coupling capacitors in a piece of equipment that I was using as a daily driver. You need to be very careful. You may not need a full recap, but you should at least do the ones in the high voltage areas to protect the transformers, which are not usually easy or cheap to find. Also some tubes are quite expensive these days, so you want to give them the longest life possible as well. A wholesale recap is not usually required, and caps in the low voltage areas can probably be left alone, but in the high voltage stages, you need to be careful, especially when paper/foil capacitors are used as the paper in those high voltage rated capacitors breaks down, and those capacitors that were once rated at 500 plus volts, will now break down below 100volts. The other thing, which you noted in your video, will new parts last as long? Not if you buy from ali express or fleabay. Buy good quality, brand name components from a reputable retailer who will not sell you fake parts, then you will get the longevity from them
really interesting. I wonder if, like in the case of your Emotiva, that the caps used were counterfeits. At the time, which you describe the Emotiva as coming from, this was a big problem. As time has gone on, it seems that a lot of things coming out of China has been improving.
Not from my experience. I have saved vast amounts on their way to the landfill not because they were broken but because they were old and no one thought anyone wanted them.
Great Question! But one of significant debate. I, personally, turn them on/off based on when I listen. This alone will "exercise" those caps and it does not need to be done daily for that purpose. There are some, but I think a minority, that prefer to leave them on all the time. There are some early units, I think mostly tube era, that have the volume and power switch together. These are known to fail, so to avoid wearing it out, some owners plug them into a power strip to turn them on/off to avoid using the switch. One habit I have is to let the unit warm up a little before using it. I sort of picked up that habit from using tube gear though.
I bought a Concept 6.5 in 1980. It has been fixed twice over the years. I'm not real sure if a third fix would be cost effective? This unit tends to run hot with a 6 ohms load. Maybe a computer fan under the transformer would be advised? Unit may have more parts value when it eventually fails? Also have a Realistic STA-2080 from my dad. This unit has never failed to perform well and never heats-up. Any idea what the cost range is to fix this unit when it eventually quits?
Concept receivers are fairly rare, so any model would be worth getting fixed. Before trying to cool it, I would have a tech review it. Could be a number of issues causing it to heat up. The Realistic, also another very nice receiver at 80w. Any repair costs are impossible to estimate, all depends on the issue and the pricing for your local area techs. You may want to start looking around for one in advance and see about having both checked out, good techs are in demand, so it can take a while before they are able to look at your unit(s).
The majority of HiFi gear made in the 60s and 70s is sitting in landfills. I suspect the older examples shown here are the exception, not the rule. These older examples have been well cared for over the years by audiophile enthusiasts so its not suprising they still functuon well.
I have a Pioneer receiver (SX-2600) that makes a clicking noise when it has been powered on for about 10-20 seconds. I think the protection relay may be going bad or maybe bad capacitors or too much dc current on a speaker output. What do you think? Is that era of receivers fixable or just not worth it?
Volunteer a very nice set up in the background and I kind of agree with you on everything but I’m kind of torn between everybody saying replace everything also but I get the point I always say why fix it why replace it with a broken I don’t know whatever, but I think when it comes to silver face receivers They’re worth repairing when the time comes just because a holder value far as that Odyssey amp is concerned as my boy would say you don’t love it enough ha ha ha well like I said nice stuff in the background I do have a Sansui G 9700 I think is what the model is the DB unit I’ve gotta replace a power related what turns assist them on but I think I’m a send it to repair shop in having to go through it and replace anything else that might be off on it. It’s a black silver black face unit probably built in the in the European air area
You are more of a hi end guy ... I shop garage sales to pick up my components and most are of the 70s and 80s stuff, before digital. 99% work, just need to be cleaned up. I have bought 90s and 2000s stuff and about 75% work, the worst is Panasonic, I won't buy them anymore. The best low end stuff are LXI receivers and Amps (Sears or Sanyo ) they always work. the cassette decks are junk. And I have picked up Reel to Reels, Akai and Sony with a little cleaning, work all the time, but Teac are about 50% for being junk. I have a 3340-S that is just a mess inside, I hope to get it going. But I do use late 90s stuff like Kenwood and TDK and they work well. Speakers I use, I have a large pair of P.A.S. that I got from a Church for $20, Had to use my van to move them, and some old Polk corner horns, and some old 901s. You guys have the money for the good stuff .... But I think my system sounds damn good !! You guys spend Thousands, I spend hundreds.
How are you determining these 60-70-year-old caps are good? Are you actually testing them with test equipment or just judging by your own opinion on the sound?
Interesting question from someone named Don't Care. Well, realistically, it would be quite challenging to manually check every cap in every piece of gear before using it, so I'll go with the "my opinion" side of the coin.
Thank you Sir for a good review My Marantz PM 94 Amplifier was service by just Audio Corporation and it sounds so Damn good at this moment my Marantz 2265 B is being serviced and i can't wait to listen to the unit thanks again
The irreplaceable transistors and FET units. Labs 100v gear by Sony and Kenwood . This is a great piece , but you can't head to head 70's and early era 80's with modern gear without a rebuilt labs unit. What is say a hagel vs a pair of external power supply L-08m monoblock pair? Or a VFET TA series restored? I guarantee it's absolutely a no contest on paper and in reality. Japanese Heritage law .... My 2 cents not to further drive up the cost. To blame ? The 40th anniversary Sony monoblocks ate up all the remaining FFET . Hong Kong 😉 yes sir NOS FET .
Not constantly, but maybe every other year for a good bit is enough, certainly not every decade. That's for the caps, the pots and other components, well, they like more exercise, if possible. 🙂
@@MasterofPlay7 Absolutely! Now, that doesn't guarantee there will never be an issue, of course. The subject for this video was that, in general, capacitors in older gear tended to last longer than more modern caps. Everything else is subject to any normal wear and tear.
It seems your perspective is from a side that thinks..."a cap went, I'll just replace it and away I go." That's fine if you can just take it to your bench and voila, all good again. For us common folk we would want something that we don't need to *'cross our fingers and hope the protection relay clicks'* every time we turn it on. With electrolytics that are 40 plus years old and small transistors it's a crap shoot they work for a long time going forward. Why wait for a failure that could cause damage to other components or circuit boards. A wonderful piece that has lasted decades already deserves to be "refreshed" so it can carry on reliably for decades more. It's a piece of mind thing and perhaps a sensible course to take to ensure reasonable reliability and wory free use.
Hey Robert! Thanks for watching. Unfortunately, you missed the point of the video. I have not advocated to not do recapping at all. The video is about the quality of the capacitors in vintage gear vs the quality of caps we are seeing in newer gear. Watch again my comments around the 4:30 mark with regard to recapping my own units (and at 8:25). Each unit needs to be evaluated on its own and what the owner wants to do with the unit long term. Some units may be fine with just having the power supply recapped while others may want/need a total recap.
@@stereoniche Ya I get what you said, but a person with vintage gear is really better served to replace 40 plus year old components to get a sense of long term reliability. If they follow your expression here, it's back to "cross your fingers, turn on the power and hope it works" situation. Sure those more than 4 decades old components may last years more but I think the realistic expectation of them is they will fail soon. Also certainly, quality of components have fallen to the "more profit" side of things and quality and longevity have suffered, but old is old.
@@stereoniche I get the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" idea but if you did that with your car you would probably break down (of course it breaks down away from home) on a long trip... LOL That's not what one would want in their car or audio gear. Not rying to counter your message, just stating it's better to just make it reliable again.
As with anything, quality for the time has to taken into consideration. Of the Sonic speakers I have owned, I would not consider them a higher level brand. The point being, just because it may be vintage does not automatically translate to sounding better.
in the old days engineers were well educated and building the good as they possibly could. But in these days, units are built for an expected life span and it seems to be copy-paste without really understanding. In a modern device there seems to be a diode war happening, protecting this and that for exceptions after exception. And the more the better, enormous caps, noisy switch mode psu's as that reduces cost of parts and shipping. Engineering for consumers in stead of engineering for performance and quality.... /cheers
vintage = 1960 - 1994...hand made tokyo .....will never be surpassed or repeated....they had trash cans near every employee, if something wasnt perfect, anyone could throw it in the trash! no questions asked / no blaming!...i have a panasonic tv 1979, works perfect every pixel... 2023!
I recall seeing those manufacturing lines decades ago in some news coverage. It was not for audio electronics, but I do recall the level of detail they went through for each piece. Quite labor intensive.
You dumped on Emotiva because of bad capacitors, but you you didn’t specify the problem when dumping on the Odyssey Khartago. So that we don’t assume it was operator negligence, please describe the failure.
expierence speaks for itself. back in the day companies where proud of what they made and what was put into them now it's all about turnover and farming out labor. that in a nutshell should be a good indicator of what we all have to look forward to. glad I'm an old fart.
You may be right. With that said you can't compare modern gear that's used with TV viewing slash home theater use. The new gear in these situations is used much much more than any 2-ch rig from the 60's and 70's. Also all we're left with from 60's 70's for the most part is the stuff that made it. 3 times as much broken stuff got thrown out 35 years ago. Food for thought.
Excellent video. I am a tech working on vintage audio and I can attest this is very true. I have many receivers with all the original caps. Often the culprit is one or more transistors and not the caps at all. When a customer brings in a vintage unit for a "recap" they usually never need it. I pull a few of the caps near the hottest part of the board and check those. I put them on my heathkit capacitor checker that could test leakage up to the rated voltage of the cap. If they pass that and esr then they don't need a recap. Actually, since caps usually degrade slowly, this test could give me a good idea of how long the caps have left on them. If a cap has a little leakage at it's rated voltage and 20% high on capacitance, a little low on esr, then it could last another 10 20 years. But if it can't even get to half it's rated voltage and the capacitance is near twice as high, esr is high, then they should consider a recap. I will also add that many receivers have caps that fail are all the same brand of capacitor, while others on the board from a different capacitor brand will be fine. I never did many "total recap" jobs.
I recall a 1966 lafayette amp that was left in shed in hot Florida. That little amp had every capacitor dead, zero capacitance and was all rusted, resistors 50% high, outputs burned up. During covid I had nothing to do so I used that as a challenge to diagnose. I eventually got it working and it sounds great. It needed all outputs, all capacitors, a few resistors, two preamp transistors. It still looks awful, but sounds nice. That's one of the very few "total recap" jobs I had to do.
If you have old equipment, power it on every now and then to keep the caps formed. Capacitors don't do well if they sit for decades with no voltage applied. Power on for maybe an hour every six months or a year to keep that electrolyte layer formed on the plates inside the caps. This will help extend the life of the caps.
Keith
Thanks Keith! You certainly got my point in the video, thanks for adding your experience. I am originally from Florida, that humidity is a total killer of just about anything that gets left outside, especially electronics. I visited someone that collected all of the TOTL monster receivers and moved from the upper mid-west to Florida. Sadly, all of the receivers are in a screened off garage exposed to the humidity. It is already taking a toll.
Hey Keith, can you reach out via email to stereoniche@gmail.com
I agree. I restore vintage gear as I hobby. My experience is that quality started to decline about 1980, so I decided not to touch anything made after that. I've seen electrolytics from the 40'ies that still measure perfectly.
You make a good point about recapping. When I first got into radio and hifi I recapped everything before even trying to turn on. Now I use a variac and only replace capacitors if they’re bulging or leaking. I have many 30’s era tube radios that work fine on original capacitors
They keep on ticking....
Impressive collection! I was given a "low mileage" Sansui 7070 over 20 years ago by the original owner and since the pandemic & working from home still listen to it almost every day. I think one of the results of the connected nature of modern components (with Internet software updates, subscriptions etc.) has led to a "get it out the door before it's done" philosophy, but those products of old had to really be stable and finished before they were sent out into the world.
Certainly seems to be developed by committee with materials sourced from the lowest priced provider for many brands.
I have that same receiver and IT HAS CERTAINLY SERVED ME WELL! Good to hear about yours too!
I have a beautiful Marantz 2330 which has never been recapped or re-lamped with LEDs.
I contacted a local expert in San Diego who refurbishes vintage stereos. He said no, if it’s working well then don’t touch it.
I’ve cleaned the pots, but the Balance slider is still touchy. It probably needs a pro to give it the once over and put it on the dyno to check the power output.
For a receiver that hasn’t been updated, it’s a 10. Happily paired with JBL L100s purchased in 1977, with a modern crossover upgrade and new foam grills.
Love the vintage stuff. Thanks for the great video.
Re-capping is probably more important when it comes to vintage speakers (crossovers). I heard a pair of vintage Sansui SP-100 horn loaded speakers (late 1960's) before re-capping and after re-capping, and the sonic improvement was noticeable.
I've had mixed results, to be honest. Caps for speaker manufacturers seemed to vary more widely on their quality than gear.
Capacitors in low voltage areas, like speaker cross overs, are actually a lot less critical to replace, and I would actually leave capacitors in cross overs well alone. The parallel leakage is going to affect the high voltage stages of vacuum tube circuits, more than low voltage areas. Technology has improved, and you can get ome darn expensive capacitors these days, but the performance vs the price you pay is a marginal improvement at best and more often than not it's plecebo effect. Not saying your case was, as we don't know what speakers you recapped and the original crossovers may have been bargain basement parts. With a lot of high quality vintage speakers, the rebuilding a crossover will have little to no effect on the sound.
Recapping a Tube Amplifier is not about gettign better sound quality as much as making the device electrically safe so you don't destroy tubes and output transformers, which equate to a very expensive repair.
I have a 1936 Silvertone radio with AM, shortwave and police bands. It belonged to my grandparents. I started playing with it in the early 60s. It has all original parts except for the green tuning eye display tube and the grill cloth. It quit working for a year and suddenly started working again! I have a Marantz 2220b and a Sansui 5050 from the 70s and they are all original too.
My experience with old stuff was (in the 1960's) finding an Altec 15-sector theater horn mostly buried in a back yard. I contacted the retired movie projector operator from where it came, and purchased the two huge matching electromagnet drivers, the Y-shaped bronze throat, the tube diode to run the drivers, and the amp (which I believe was also Altec.) I guess this was 1940's stuff, but it sounded better than any speaker I've heard since. I didn't have space in my living room to put the two cabinets for the four 15" woofers!
You need a bigger room! I actually know someone that has a basement with 12' ceilings and setup some VOTTs left/right/center channel. 🙂
Great insight on the old stuff! In 1970 my dad's friend gave me in a pair of Dynaco Dynakit Mark III and preamp and two EV 15" drivers/crossovers/EV-T35's, and a Fairchild turntable. I had no idea how good that stuff was. Then into Pioneer to Luxman L100 to Kinergetics to Adcom to B&K and now back to Luxman L100. Love the vintage stuff for sure!
Well, I have both modern and vintage (up to the late 90s). The 60s and 70s did all just worked. BUT.. I can’t say it sounded too great.. After recapping with good quality caps it sounded great again. The 80s was already less good on cheaper gear, but a nice Luxman or something like that is still very nice.. From the 90s, still quite okay, especially the higher end stuff (and you are comparing the better older stuff as well) seems to hold out pretty well. Recapping of my 1991 Accuphase units still wasn’t necessary, but the late 90s Parasound did need them (it still worked by the way). From the 2000s up, there seems to be a strong separation between high end and consumer. The consumer stuff will most probably have failed already (2 NAD amps, a Sansui, Marantz, Pioneer and Onkyo all failed). But the modern high end stuff, like my tube amp, Accuphase, high end NAD, Naim, it’s really all still fine…
So yeah. Upgrading caps on a vintage unit tends to make it sound A LOT better, as the older caps lasted long, but are quite imprecise. The modern caps are SO much better.
Again, high quality caps seem to hold out fine, but cheaper caps just fail fairly quickly.
It’s a pity, but yeah…
I don't think you'll get a lot of argument from most stereo people. I wish I knew a lot more then what I do, but I believe the move to have China build most of the equipment from 2000 on has made a huge difference in quality. Cheaper wire, pots and just knowledge of craftsmanship. You can't produce a product with the needs of high end stereos with only a few years and limited knowledge. Good video.
I think there is something to that as well.
Another great vid! Couldn't agree more! My 45 plus year old Sansuis are still going strong!!
Absolutely! My 9090db and qrx-6001 are both ALL original and still going strong 💪! Sansui is THE best!
Greetings! New to your channel, subscribed today. I have a Yamaha CR400 that I bought new in the summer of 1976. Nowadays it resides in my workshop but stays on 24/7 other than a power outage. Still sounds great. I opened it a year or so ago and blew the dust out , that's about all I knew to do. Anyway, I found your topic interesting and will enjoy more of your content. Thanks!
Welcome aboard!
Another plus about the older components is that their point-to-point hand wiring made most components easier to sub and replace when needed. Some of the new stuff has boards, chips, and odd parts that are hell to find and install.
Wow that Scott amp is killer. While my TV side is a Sony receiver, DVD player, and a Bose surround sound, speaker bar and speakers, my vintage equipment is a Marantz 2226 B receiver, a Marantz cassette deck model 2020 and a Sony CD player. Great video and very informative.Yep today's equipment is buy it, use it, and then chunk it for a new one, its a lot cheaper!
Sadly, disposable is the norm these days.
@@stereoniche I wish they would bring the silver faced equipment back, nothing is built like that Marantz of mine its a tank. But we've lost the charm of equipment, its just awful nowadays. Thanks for responding.
I agree about the recapping. I have a Pioneer SX-1250 that as far as I know has not been recapped. No issues with the caps in 2023. I also think these parts should only be replaced if they are failing - or when they are visually showing a clear sign of impending failure - such as bloating or leaking. The other thing I wanted to mention is that I appreciate the visual style of your videos. By that, I mean the clean look of your equipment, and the fact that I do not see wires and cables going everywhere. Something tells me you have taken steps to keep all the cables out of sight. I try to do the same thing in my audio/video setups - with all wiring hidden from view as much as possible. Thanks for sharing!
HI there. Thanks for the comments! I DO try to hide the cable clutter as much as possible. Not perfect, but I try to get the video focused just on the subject at hand which is the GEAR!
I don't subscribe to the notion that vintage equipment today should perform at the same specifications as when it left the factory. I think that undercurrent is what drives a lot of the interest in blanket re-capping. From my experience, opening up a vintage unit to make wholesale changes or "upgrades" is just asking for trouble. Fix what is broken and leave it alone otherwise. I am 66 years old and have gear that I purchased in my 20s. It still works - pretty well I would say, and for the most part performs better than I do these days!
I agree,,,,to an extent,,,, on the history of usage. A unit that is used consistently will stand the test of time and continue to work well. Ones that are stuck in the closet for 10-20 years do have the drying out as you accurately put it and poof. I see you are a Sansui person as am I. That 9090 in front of you, I bought one in Japan 1976 for $340. A lot of money for a E-3 Sailor at the time. Sadly, that unit is gone, (1990?) but I have since replaced it with a gently used 8080. It still rings my bells.
I've only ever owned vintage gear. So I was extremely excited when i was able to purchase new. I purchased an Emotiva preamp, power amp and cd player. In the first five years of ownership, the power amp went in for service twice, the preamp went in 3 times that I can remember and the cd player went in at least once.
I later purchased their totl preamp thinking that maybe my original preamp was just a lemon. After a few months of ownership the input selector function became flaky. It got to the point where i always had this sick feeling in my gut that something was going to fail every time I used the system. I decided to sell it all and go back to my vintage gear.
I'm not picking on Emotiva. They were very good about warranty work. It's just that they were my only experience with "new" gear. It was a bad experience to say the least. I know people who own Emotiva and love it. I'm truly happy for them.
Thus far, my used experience hasn't been great, unfortunately.
@@stereoniche I'm lucky enough to have the space and equipment to do my own repairs and restorations.
Correction: Thus far, my "more modern" used experience hasn't been great, unfortunately.
I have emotiva xpa-5 xpa-2 xpa 1 since 2oo8 never got any problems.
@Elvin Echevarria 👍
My local tech said the same thing…if the caps aren’t leaking and testing accurately…leave them alone.
Thanks 👋
Two Sansui units here, a 2000 and a 4000. The 2000 I have no clue about, the 4000 had a channel repaired in 1986. The caps are all original in the 4000, as I was in there cleaning it up and have the service records, as I bought from the original owner. The sound out of both units is something modern gear cannot touch, at least all of the gear I have owned. The 4000 is used daily, and is at the heart of my two channel setup.
Complete reccapping is for the future of the device. You dont want to pull apart a reciever every year to look for the odd failed cap. Renew every one at once and you will have 30 years of trouble free use. Some of the gear even needs transistors mass replaced now like the 2sc458.
hi monguz tea is there a website that list known bad transistors ??
@@garygranato9164 google
@@MonguzTea yea , i have googled it a couple of time, but it only ever lists threads on forums with a small number of transistors. i was looking for a more complete list TBH. thanks anyway
Well, a complete recap of two of my moderate vintage amps did them well. I use a Sansui AS7700 in near mint state and a Luxman L80 mint in two seperate vintage chains. Both livened up significantly and gave me improved clarity and soundstage whilst maintaining the original warm sound profile. The Sansui had by measurement an increase from 52 to 67 WPC. Recap was done with prime Japanese quality capacitors according to manufacturers’ specs by my vintage gear enthousiasts repair shop of choice . For €400,- each, for me it was well worth the investment. Hopefully they make it for quite a long time, since I totally enjoy the sound they deliver in combo with either new Wharfedale Lintons or Hyperphon tweeters and crossover modded Linn Keilidhs.
One of the problems with new stuff is surface mounted circuits. A good example is the Sony SCD-1/SCD-777ES. The control board has a lot of surface mounted components. Back when you could get them repaired they would just replace the whole board and toss the suspect board. There are so many densely packed components on these boards that it is impractical to check each one for defects. Once the replacement boards dried up no one would touch them unless you had a donor unit. They dried up too and now you have $5000.00 Door stop. It’s a shame that manufacturers don’t continue to support these products. Through hole component mounting ensures long life.
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion also you have a Beautiful collection of Vintage gear thanks again 👍👍👍🎶🎶
Interesting view on wholesale recapping. So from what I'm hearing, dealing with evident faults like a bad channel, leaky cap, hums, scratchy pots and burnt out lights is all that is needed to get that quality sound again with vintage gear.
As with anything, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). The overall point is that, in general, caps seem to have been of better quality, on average, in vintage gear, but each unit should be evaluated independently for the best course of repair needed. By all means, if you feel your unit and budget are best served by a total recap, have at it. But I tend to think that in many cases, that is not needed. If in doubt, get at least the power supply recapped for more peace of mind.
I have owned many 70s amps and receivers. Aside from cleaning the units and the pots as well as replacing bulbs there were not any other problems. I had one pioneer 780 that needed a transistor and such but it was broken when i bought it. A few of my older tube gear did need new can caps but not the majority. The vintage gear i own now are still original. I tend to find mine at estate sales,thrift shops, and yard sales. The older gear i find works but most newer gear i see does not. I always check for bulging or leaking caps but have only seen it a couple times.
You hit the nail on the proverbial head.
The biggest problem of new equipment is all the chips that operate it
I had to turn down top of the line Marantz surround sound receivers because the blown chips aren't available any more
I have a vintage computer, and as I started it after ~20years of rest it run just fine - about one hour before a cap exploded. I asked in a specialized forum about this issue, and they already know this exact type of cap to be a mass failure. I replaced all caps of this type, and the machine runs fine since then.
So: seems there were also good and bad components that days, but you see only the good ones today, because the bad ones are long gone.
Agree, when there was a mass failing, most often it would fail early and they were addressed with better components.
I’m listening to a 1975 Marantz 2325, Klipsch k-horns on A, B are Klipsch Belle’s. For over 30 years I have been rocking. My Marantz get my air compressor every few years. I blow the inside out. Other than that nothing but pure music ! It still brings goose bumps on my arms. I doubt we see that quality today. At least that I could afford. Everything is Walnut, Beautiful and it Rocks ! You could spend a million dollars but you wouldn’t get a million worth of better music. It’s that good. Yes, mybwoofers , crossovers ect have all been serviced. Plus a powered M&K dub, 2x12” up front. Walnut. Everything matches and looks like furniture. Very nice furniture ! This is what I’ll be listening to , unless it dies. I can’t believe after 70 years there has been no real improvements in sound. Not that everyone can afford. Prices have gone Crazy! Even on old gear. People realize a recap could save thousands ! I battle over recapping because it still is Rocking and dead silent. To each their own. Music is a gateway to the Soul !
Another aspect to why I love vintage gear. It was made to be seen with furniture quality real wood veneers!
I've concluded that all the components inside electronic gear run on smoke. Because it seems like once the smoke comes out, it always stops working. 🤣
You may be on to something! 🙂
I had a McCormack dna1 fail due to what they said the pcb mainboard delaminating,my thought was damn i got pcb boards that are 50 plus years old that are fine,kinda reminds me of that astronaut guy ,we would go back to the moon but we lost that technology,Really!
I would still do a thorough test in place, component by component, where possible. Changing out known-issue transistors, OOS caps, transistors with black corrosion, checking components exposed to factory glue where the glue has led to corrosion, and reapplying thermal paste where appropriate.
If I do a recap, it's with priority to the power section of the receiver. The rest is ad hoc based on an ESR test and physical check.
Solid state rocks!
Sounds like a solid approach to me.
I am amazed how well the vintage gear was made going back to the 1950's. We had some really top notch engineers.
Well said it is generally on certain vintages/types of Capacitors that have issues. I often test new capacitors against what is installed often the older ones test/perform better. It does seem a fad all this recapping a lot of times it's just not necessary.
out of interest , what tests do you perform ?
@@garygranato9164 ESR,Leakage,Capacitance
I had a 1970 kenwood amp. 400w. Weighed 110 lbs. and ran on leaded gas. Indestructible. I still have my first 5.1 Sony from the late ‘80s. Used it in the garage, dusty and extreme temperatures. Analog. Works great.
Wow, a 110 lb beast! Do you recall the model?
I have to say the older stuff was builded so much better than today! And the sound i bet the older stuff sounds better than the newer stuff out there. Not only that if it does not break down they can not sale a new one its all about the money. Cool video!
I almost bought an Odyssey Khartago. Based on this and what others have told me. I dodged a bullet getting something else. This one person told me that the build quality on his was crap and Odyssey would not honor their warranty. I have a NAD C340 Integrated amp that is at least 20 years old and it still works and sounds sweet.
Tell us more about the Odyssey failure. Was it a capacitor? I’m always curious what “build quality” actually means.
@@boomcrash It was not my purchase, it was someone else's. Evidently this individual bought an Odyssey product that failed, and Odyssey would not honor their warranty.
Crap build quality? Cheap parts, bad solder joints etc.
@@boomcrash I can tell you that over a year ago I gave Odyssey a deposit for one of their Khartago amps. I was told by Klaus at Odyssey to buy a multi meter. He was going to call me before shipping and ask for my outlet voltages so he could adjust the bias.
Well he took my deposit and disappeared. I haven't heard anything from Odyssey since.
@@bburkie55 ouch…that’s horrible.
@@boomcrash Yeah I even contacted Odyssey telling them I got the meter, was ready when they were. About the same time I saw some suspicious charges on my CC. I contested the charges and had them credited to my account. I'm not accusing them of the bogus charges but the timing was certainly suspicious.
nice video / thank you / I would like to add that finding a qualified tech to repair these vintage pieces of audio equipment is also a challenge.
1000% agree. More valuable than gold when you find one.
I run dual Sansui 9090s, driving 4 full height ESS Towers. I did re-cone the ESS 12" bass drivers.
Have you ever thought about the possibility that vintage gear seems higher quality because all the defective units were thrown out years ago, leaving only the “good ones” for us to enjoy, while we’re in the time where modern gear is just starting to fail?
Actually, yes, it has occurred to me. However, I am also sadly quite familiar with the large volume of vintage gear that was just thrown into the landfill for no reason other than it was old. I think this is actually where the majority of gear went and not because it was faulty.
@@stereoniche It hurts to see all the vintage gear on ebay that has huge dents and scratches on it. I keep thinking "Who in the world could treat this beautiful gear that way??"
@@danmarjenka6361they've been garbage picked from municipality electronics day
My old 70's valve based hifi, ('tubes'... are what we call the London underground rail network) still works perfectly..caps are all well within their operating range, valves have been replaced & it gets a good clean every year... & my vinyl & tapes still sound fuller & richer than any modern mp3 highly compressed source..
I have a rack system from the 80s with various manufactures for the most part it's been rocksolid
I prefer vintage all the way. I have a Sansui 7070 for my main stereo. In my bedroom I have a pioneer SX 535. I think they both look really cool and they just blow all the new stuff away. I’ve had two newer stereos and had a speaker relay go out and several other problems along the way. None with my Sansui. I did have a fuse, blow out on the pioneer, and a couple of lights, that’s it. Actually, this is a topic I’m very passionate about.
My $2,000 Sherwood Micro CPU, FM only tuner died and NO one could fix it. The bleeding edge is to be avoided.
I like your perspective on this subject. Especially since you have such an extensive collection. I love the audio gear that was produced 45-50 years ago. I do not disagree with your opinion, although it can be a crap shoot. I have purchased several excellent condition vintage pieces from the 70s. I have had less success in terms of the components viability. Many have had some kind of problem. Either there is static in a channel or a function becomes inoperable. I have several 70s-80s McIntosh mint condition pieces that have had service.
I am really loving your videos and “sound” information- most glad to have found you! That said, and apologizing for my ignorance on this….what do you mean by “RE capping”? I have Klipsch speakers, KLF 10s to be exact, and I’m now noticing harshness on the highs-
I DO INTEND to get new gear-most likely a Marantz 8015 or 7015 and get an Emotiva XPA 11ch amp-most likely Klipsch for my fronts, using my KLF 10s for the side surrounds-
My question is-do you think I’m on the right track? I also have and old Sansui 7070 still operative that I’d sell to you- cause I GOTTA JUST ❤️LOVE🎵 all that equipment I see in the background as well! YOU, Sir, are the kind of guy I’d love to hang out with! I “think” we’d have quite a lot to talk about! Take care, Al
Hey Al!, Welcome aboard. So, "Re-Cap" is short for Replacement of Capacitors. There are essentially two schools of thought, one side recommends totally "recapping" any and all caps in a vintage unit, while the other camp (the one I and others are in) prefer to just take care of the ones that need it and/or include some critical areas like the power supply, etc..
On your audio journey, you appear to be focused moreso on a surround sound system vs stereo. That is absolutely fine, just not an area where I am well versed. I do have a small setup in my home, but it is quite modest being flanked by large stereo speakers. That 7070 is an awesome receiver that could be the heart of a very nice stereo setup.
I could talk "stereo stuff" for days to anyone that stopped by (if I have the time). It just never gets boring, so much great gear and music to experience. Stayed tuned!
@@stereoniche Thank You Sir-and I certainly will DO! Yes, I am interested in surround, but am DEFINITELY CONCERNED AND CONCENTRATED ON 2-Ch Stereo-with all the audio codecs these days, you can have stereo coming out of ALL speakers or just your main fronts-that said, my primary interest in an A/V is a processor that will decode but make STEREO EXPLODE! The Klipschorns I first saw you review are prime examples, I believe. Where’s I have approx 250 surround concerts, I have approx 2,500 or more CDs-you do the math! ANY SUGGESTIONS on an A/V-Preamp (𝙀𝙈𝙊𝙏𝙄𝙑𝘼 XOA 11ch?!) setup would be “soundly” appreciated! I am 70 years and I’m not gonna try to just “get by”-I DEF WANT SOME CLEAN, NATURAL SOUND that WOWs me, as I do get the skin Ohs now!
Also, thanks for the explain on the caps-and with that said, I have a pair of Klipsch KLF 10s that are 20 years old and seemingly now a bit harsh on the highs-at least to my ears. Any suggestions there? I DO want to get new fronts when I get the other equipment I mentioned and move the KLF 10s to the side surrounds-unless you think that some overkill or not the best idea as well.
Totally enjoying your info videos, comments and I want to thank you for your response!
Yours,
Al
@@alanpoland7688 Hey Al! Well, when it comes to recommending an AV setup that is great at stereo, I have to admit, I really do not know. I can only recommend a forum like www.avsforum.com that may have a current thread on top AV receivers that also have great stereo.
What I ran into is that I have some great vintage speakers that cannot realistically be paired with rear/center channel speakers to match their voicing. So, I actually use some smaller bookshelf AV speakers that sit on top of my large stereo speakers. That means I have a separate AV stereo and vintage stereo system setup for different roles.
I had 5 early 70's Pioneer, Sansui receivers working great! Only replaced fuses and deoxit pots..i believe in rotating them in my listening...they are stronger than today's fake watt ratings, looks far better than modern designs, sounds warmer, and i just use a gud Zen dac bt receiver to stream flac or play records. There's just something special interacting physically with vintage controls over lifeless modern remotes with cheap plastic faces. I've even replaced som side panels with real solid walnut with a little basic woodworking tools...so satisfying!
The Realistic STA-2150 that was our familly system amplifier in the 80's, while not quite an antique, I find has a quality that modern amplifiers lack. I replaced some of the caps in it, the main filter capacitors had leaked through the hole in the PCB on the bottom plate without causing any damage. I figure I will have to recap it completely if I want to keep using it, it still has a bad stench of leaky caps to it.
I forgot to mention that it sat idle for quite a while, and sometimes not in the best conditions, it may even have been exposed to more humidity than what is considered ideal.
Two things come to mind:
1) Have you taken into account the survivor bias? That is, equipment made in the 1950's and 1960's that themselves became "door stops" are not available to you now (since they've long been junked.) You're buying the survivors.
2) Quality/luxury level: McIntosh was a luxury brand (as much as hi-fi had such things, certainly in the 1950's the so-called _high-end_ market of today did not exist), but the Emotiva brand you mention is mass-market and known to be sometimes of questionable quality.
Compare today's McIntosh to your classic McIntosh.
You can find many products in the high-end today in which construction is the pride-of-the-brand, to justify the (very high) cost. Beyond even MIL-SPEC. They are very expensive though.
Indeed. Modern day McIntoshes are also REALLY well built. They should easily last quite a long time.. And indeed, I used MIL spec caps in my tube amp, no problems, even after decades of intense use..
At least with silver faced gear, like the 9090 he uses as an example, I don't think survivorship bias applies. That gear was often just moved out of the living room to the garage because people didn't want it in there anymore. Or, the unit had some minor fault (like needed pots cleaned) and people never got it fixed. I only say this because of what original owners told me when I bought that gear.
@@paulv22 Perhaps, but here in the netherlands there is remarkable little left of the old stuff. European that is. Most Japanese stuff is still here and working though...
While I do agree the better brands of yesteryear were premium then as well as now, I think most vintage gear made it to the landfill simply because it was considered "old" and not because it was non-working. In general, I think most passive components, overall, are simply not as good as ones made decades ago. Not that they cannot be sourced, but in total, the average quality has decreased.
@@stereoniche Well, quite possible. I used to have a really nice Sony amplifier from the late 70s that I threw away in the mid 90s. But that was because the amp couldn't deal with playing at a VERY high volume on my B&W speakers for hours and I blew up the power amp section. Later I realised that that might have been repairable, but this was before the Internet held all the answers..
But as I knew people who threw away all their vinyl and CD's (funny thing is they never threw them to me), so older audio equipment? It would surprise me if the same people also threw that out..
For the passive components... I think the current day components are MUCH more accurate (so recapping with good modern caps will most likely make the amp sound a good bit better), but indeed, far less long lasting.
Still, caps from the 1970s should really be replaced, but the primitive ones from 1940s tube radios? They should be absolutely fine and perfectly in spec.
So more primitive and less precise also might have to do with longevity?
My only Recent gear are Onkyo M504s.. All the rests is vintage ..is like this old gear develops a soul
Product of the wisdom of those old engineers that are now in Audio heaven ..
The smoothness comes from the wisdom of their years. :-)
Maybe the power supply caps should be checked and replaced. Love my vintage gear.
Completely agree.
I fell for the total recap wholesale philosophy thanks to audiokarma now I know better😂
It has been a bit of a mantra.
Im all for recapping. But just gear thats worth the struggle. Stuff i use daily in my system is recapped etc. Someday theyll have to be recapped anyhow.
We have vintage and brand new Mac gear. It’s been trouble free. I thought I may have had an issue with our MT10 turntable as it spun slightly slower while playing. I called McIntosh directly in Binghamton NY and they patched me right through to an older gentleman at the factory. All it needed was a drop of the supplied oil to be placed under the magnetic spindle. Wala, good as gold.
Also own vintage Carver and Sunfire gear. No issues.
Thanks for the vid Scott.
Not much more rewarding than to have something just continue to work because it was built well from the beginning.
@@stereoniche so true buddy. And I’m looking forward to your vintage phase linear, Carver, and / or Sunfire reviews someday. 😎
Good techs and some critical parts are quickly disappearing so I'm looking at some new stuff now. Still have my vintage gear, but downsized a bit.
7:00 I'd say survivor bias plays a large part, as you'll only see the gear that kept working, the other failed units much more likely to be binned years back (as much as that hurts to think about). In 2053, would an amp made in 2003 that survived for 50 years be considered lower quality compared to an amp made in 1973 that survived until 2023?
6:10 How does using a unit prevent the capacitors from "drying out"? I would think it would be the opposite, as power cycling and running the components at temperature would accelerate the process. It's not like a car AC that needs to be run to keep the seals supple.
7:55 The capacitor issues in the 2000s hit everything as the suppliers used a faulty electrolyte. There were also component problems around 2006 from the federally mandated move to lead-free solder (see the Onkyo and Yamaha AVRs for example)
What about the glue many manufacturers used for their components in the 70s and 80s (?) that would age and turn acidic, destroying components and traces, or the dry and cracked solder joints that can plague older amps from heat cycling? Newer gear also have components that are made with fewer impurities, much higher tolerance, more uniform, run with much lower heat, and have surface mounted components that are less likely to fail.
I'm not saying all new stuff is great either (*cough cassette decks*) as demand for good attainable hifi gear wanes and investment firms buy brands to suck the quality out of it for profit. But I think it's hard to compare older and newer gear with an unbiased view.
in our era of modern technology, successful consumer products began with high standards. then the pressure for greater revenue & higher profit margins from corporate directors and financial interests in competitive / growth markets drove attention towards rapid turnover & cost engineering. simulation tools, FEA & the like enabled engineering components, subsystems & products to the ragged edge of reliability over time. as the consumer middle class is under duress, so too is the market for new appealing high quality & lasting products available to them at reasonable prices. thus the "golden age" movement in many segments; cars, bikes, watches, cameras, furniture, etc. it ain't just nostalgia, given the participation of emerging generations.
Too many have fallen into a false sense of security with regards to bulging or "leaking" electrolytic capacitors, ascribing to the physical (chemical) evidence of leakage. While that is one aspect of a faulty capacitor, just as importantly is "electrically leaking" (leaking DC). That, and high ESR can be real trouble in the circuit. I have several H.H. Scott units and have always tested for these precise things. Many of the capacitors I found bad were in the bias circuit which, if left untouched, would have resulted in red-plating of the output tube(s) and possible destruction of the precious output transformers. Selenium rectifiers should be replaced unconditionally as they WILL self-destruct in dramatic fashion ... and you surely don't want to breath the smoke they emit. It's imperative a qualified technician take a good look at this vintage equipment to verify components are up-to-snuff to ensure these wonderful pieces persist well into the future.
I'm surprised that the fusible resistors on the Sansui 9090 aren't giving it problems. It's not all about capacitors going bad in vintage units. I prefer pre-1978 Pioneer units and the small transistors and tantalum caps might work in the units but they definitely degrade the quality of sound.
Indeed, there are certainly other components that can degrade over time and should be addressed as part of any long term maintenance. My point, overall, is that capacitors used in older gear seems to have had a longer "shelf life" than the average capacitors used today.
Thanks for share your knowledge Sr 🙌
Power electrolytics do age and if they are handling current will eventually fail, better to replace them than wait and see of they take anything else when they do fail.
New caps are much smaller than those used 40-60 years ago. New caps are better but I suspect they are more susceptible to failure because they lose their electrolyte formation if allowed to sit without use faster than the old style caps.
"I suspect they are more susceptible to failure because they lose their electrolyte formation" was the primary point of my video. I was not advocating to never recap, but that essentially, modern caps, on average, do not seem to last as long and to consider that when evaluating what to do with any vintage unit.
I no longer have a desire for the silver faced Receivers because over the years I've owned most of them and they are way too heavy for my bad back so I stick with separates .
And most are from the 80s and 90s and have not had to replace any capacitors
Indeed, they are heavy. For that reason, I bought a lift Dolley so I can move them around. Best thing ever, but it is not practical for inside the home.
@@stereoniche I've bought and sold many of the monster receivers mostly in 1999 and I sold an SX1980 for $500 and maybe 20 SX1250s for $250 oh my present retirement would be oh so much better if I'd held onto a few till now but who knew LoL
The idea of re-caping old gear is far overated. I have two Marantz Model 250 power amps amps from the early 1970s. The only capacitor I have ever had to replace is a small value electrolytic used in the speaker delay circuit.
Those Marantz are quite solid machines. :-)
Thank you great info take care thumbs up !
Totally agree
I like your video. I don't know when are the end years to be vintage amplifiers or receivers but i have a old litle Sony TA-AX310 amplifier from 1984 and he continue to work perfectly . I have try 3 or 4 new receivers 9 channels but to listening in stereo 2 channels and they are all have direct audio or Pure audio and the quality of sound are not good like my old litle Sony. why ? its so weird.
vintage hifi is very much the same as vintage cars.parts are surprisingly reasonable in price and still available too
There is one vintage brand that's still going strong, that stands out like a sore thumb for being the most malfunctioning problematic brand I've ever experienced. Cassette decks, receivers, you name it. Years ago it even took out one of my speakers, (probably DC current leakage). The continued success of the brand I guess shows that reliability doesn't matter that much to a brands success. The most interesting thing to me about how older stuff was built was their usually bigger and beefier transformers. Escalated shipping prices might have prompted them to go smaller there to save on shipping, and that's usually what it sounds like; smaller and less beefy sound. Less warm also. The emphasis today seems to be on clarity and crispness at all costs. Balance and proper warmth seemed to be more the idea back then, with vintage equipment. Speaker drivers and cables seem to be where the biggest sonic progress has been made. Not that there weren't a few good drivers back then. Of course if you are willing to go high enough in price, you can get amps with big transformers and virtually anything that was part of the good old days.
Which brand is that? I'm guessing Sony.
Inquiring minds want to know, who is the mystery brand? :-)
@@stereoniche I don't wanna get sued. No...harm>>don. The receivers one channel would keep going out, and you had to keep getting up and jiggling the selector switch. I think it ended up getting me in actual better physical shape though. It was almost a relief when a time later, it made a speaker start squealing in a higher pitched tone like a pig. I guess that's what DC current sounds like. One cassette deck made some deep subsonic rumbling sound, even without a tape playing. The other cassette deck was running slow and singers actually had a noticeably lower pitch. The previous owner might have got it repaired and they might have put in a motor that needed to be a bit more powerful. The belts were fine. Someone once tried to sell me a portable cassette player at work; the singers voice sounded like their pitch was headed toward Tiny Tim territory. You'd have barely recognized him. I once bought a 8 track player and the motor (another repaired substitute I presume), must have been the culprit for making rattling sound. You could visually see the part of the 8 track that sticks out doing its rattling dance to the sound of a low rumbling noise. An old Infinity Emit tweeter caught fire once playing a Nutcracker cd. It was the Girgiev conducting performance on cd. Actually it is a great performance and I actually remembered sitting in front of my Christmas tree with a speaker on each side and clapping about 5 minutes earlier. The Paus de Deux was absolutely delightful. Before the top of the left speaker went supernova. I had the tweeter mounted outside the cabinet for more airiness. If it would have been in its usual position inside the speaker with all that foam stuffing; I might have had to find my cell phone quick.
You have to be careful with old gear from the 1960's or earlier, and reforming the filter capacitors is only one part of the process. The coupling capacitors between stages can leak DC power to the next stage, causing the tubes to draw heavy current. You won't know this until you see smoke coming out of the Output or Mains Power transformers. I would not trust the old coupling capacitors in a piece of equipment that I was using as a daily driver. You need to be very careful. You may not need a full recap, but you should at least do the ones in the high voltage areas to protect the transformers, which are not usually easy or cheap to find. Also some tubes are quite expensive these days, so you want to give them the longest life possible as well.
A wholesale recap is not usually required, and caps in the low voltage areas can probably be left alone, but in the high voltage stages, you need to be careful, especially when paper/foil capacitors are used as the paper in those high voltage rated capacitors breaks down, and those capacitors that were once rated at 500 plus volts, will now break down below 100volts.
The other thing, which you noted in your video, will new parts last as long? Not if you buy from ali express or fleabay. Buy good quality, brand name components from a reputable retailer who will not sell you fake parts, then you will get the longevity from them
really interesting. I wonder if, like in the case of your Emotiva, that the caps used were counterfeits. At the time, which you describe the Emotiva as coming from, this was a big problem. As time has gone on, it seems that a lot of things coming out of China has been improving.
Hopefully that is the case. Scary to think how much gear will end up in landfills.
Isn't that the all the bad and new broken vintage audio has been thrown away back then and gone? What is left are the good ones?
Not from my experience. I have saved vast amounts on their way to the landfill not because they were broken but because they were old and no one thought anyone wanted them.
Is it better to leave these stereos on all the time, or let them rest, or turn off an on ?
Great Question! But one of significant debate. I, personally, turn them on/off based on when I listen. This alone will "exercise" those caps and it does not need to be done daily for that purpose. There are some, but I think a minority, that prefer to leave them on all the time.
There are some early units, I think mostly tube era, that have the volume and power switch together. These are known to fail, so to avoid wearing it out, some owners plug them into a power strip to turn them on/off to avoid using the switch.
One habit I have is to let the unit warm up a little before using it. I sort of picked up that habit from using tube gear though.
I bought a Concept 6.5 in 1980. It has been fixed twice over the years. I'm not real sure if a third fix would be cost effective? This unit tends to run hot with a 6 ohms load. Maybe a computer fan under the transformer would be advised? Unit may have more parts value when it eventually fails?
Also have a Realistic STA-2080 from my dad. This unit has never failed to perform well and never heats-up. Any idea what the cost range is to fix this unit when it eventually quits?
Concept receivers are fairly rare, so any model would be worth getting fixed. Before trying to cool it, I would have a tech review it. Could be a number of issues causing it to heat up. The Realistic, also another very nice receiver at 80w. Any repair costs are impossible to estimate, all depends on the issue and the pricing for your local area techs. You may want to start looking around for one in advance and see about having both checked out, good techs are in demand, so it can take a while before they are able to look at your unit(s).
Forgot to mention new gear sounds just ok
The majority of HiFi gear made in the 60s and 70s is sitting in landfills. I suspect the older examples shown here are the exception, not the rule. These older examples have been well cared for over the years by audiophile enthusiasts so its not suprising they still functuon well.
Agree, I think MOST older gear ended up in a landfill because it was old, not because it needed any significant repair.
Vintage units certainly have an easier repairability.
I have a Pioneer receiver (SX-2600) that makes a clicking noise when it has been powered on for about 10-20 seconds. I think the protection relay may be going bad or maybe bad capacitors or too much dc current on a speaker output. What do you think? Is that era of receivers fixable or just not worth it?
Did you already clean the relay?
Volunteer a very nice set up in the background and I kind of agree with you on everything but I’m kind of torn between everybody saying replace everything also but I get the point I always say why fix it why replace it with a broken I don’t know whatever, but I think when it comes to silver face receivers They’re worth repairing when the time comes just because a holder value far as that Odyssey amp is concerned as my boy would say you don’t love it enough ha ha ha well like I said nice stuff in the background I do have a Sansui G 9700 I think is what the model is the DB unit I’ve gotta replace a power related what turns assist them on but I think I’m a send it to repair shop in having to go through it and replace anything else that might be off on it. It’s a black silver black face unit probably built in the in the European air area
You are more of a hi end guy ... I shop garage sales to pick up my components and most are of the 70s and 80s stuff, before digital. 99% work, just need to be cleaned up. I have bought 90s and 2000s stuff and about 75% work, the worst is Panasonic, I won't buy them anymore. The best low end stuff are LXI receivers and Amps (Sears or Sanyo ) they always work. the cassette decks are junk. And I have picked up Reel to Reels, Akai and Sony with a little cleaning, work all the time, but Teac are about 50% for being junk. I have a 3340-S that is just a mess inside, I hope to get it going. But I do use late 90s stuff like Kenwood and TDK and they work well. Speakers I use, I have a large pair of P.A.S. that I got from a Church for $20, Had to use my van to move them, and some old Polk corner horns, and some old 901s. You guys have the money for the good stuff .... But I think my system sounds damn good !! You guys spend Thousands, I spend hundreds.
As long as you are enjoying it, that is the measure that really counts!
How are you determining these 60-70-year-old caps are good? Are you actually testing them with test equipment or just judging by your own opinion on the sound?
Interesting question from someone named Don't Care. Well, realistically, it would be quite challenging to manually check every cap in every piece of gear before using it, so I'll go with the "my opinion" side of the coin.
@Douglas Blake whast about the leakage test ?? is leakage nopt important ?
@Douglas Blake nice one
Most of my gear is 25-plus years old with no intent to "upgrade"......
What rate (percentage/time) is considered good to use on a variac to bring vintage equipment back up to full power?
A great question. One best answered by a long term tech like Douglas Blake. Let's see if he chimes in here. @Douglasblake
Thank you Sir for a good review My Marantz PM 94 Amplifier was service by just Audio Corporation and it sounds so Damn good at this moment my Marantz 2265 B is being serviced and i can't wait to listen to the unit thanks again
The irreplaceable transistors and FET units. Labs 100v gear by
Sony and Kenwood . This is a great piece , but you can't head to head 70's and early era 80's with modern gear without a rebuilt labs unit. What is say a hagel vs a pair of external power supply L-08m monoblock pair? Or a VFET TA series restored? I guarantee it's absolutely a no contest on paper and in reality. Japanese Heritage law .... My 2 cents not to further drive up the cost. To blame ? The 40th anniversary Sony monoblocks ate up all the remaining FFET . Hong Kong 😉 yes sir NOS FET .
Tube vs SS is apples and oranges.
so you have to use it constantly? I thought if you use them too much it will ruin them since they are so old
Not constantly, but maybe every other year for a good bit is enough, certainly not every decade. That's for the caps, the pots and other components, well, they like more exercise, if possible. 🙂
@@stereoniche can I just use it daily for like 5 to 10 hours?
@@MasterofPlay7 Absolutely! Now, that doesn't guarantee there will never be an issue, of course. The subject for this video was that, in general, capacitors in older gear tended to last longer than more modern caps. Everything else is subject to any normal wear and tear.
A reviewer who sells vintage amps say that vintage amps are better than newer. Totally unbiased…
Well, I guess one should be cautious for those that are established sellers vs a collector like me. 😀
a pro in stadium and sql systems for over 40 years, says ya vintage is good, more watts today, but you need 12000 wrms?!
@@lunam7249 of course it is not about watts only, but mainly about sinad ect.
My Pioneer SX 780 will outlast me, lol
I have an original Sansui 9090DB I bought in 1979 (or so). I'll sell it to you for $500 you pay shipping. It hsn't been turned on in 10 years.
I have two already, so do not "need" a 3rd, but post your location, someone may be interested.
This is something common with other products. Stuff was built to last. Think old time appliances.
It seems your perspective is from a side that thinks..."a cap went, I'll just replace it and away I go." That's fine if you can just take it to your bench and voila, all good again. For us common folk we would want something that we don't need to *'cross our fingers and hope the protection relay clicks'* every time we turn it on. With electrolytics that are 40 plus years old and small transistors it's a crap shoot they work for a long time going forward. Why wait for a failure that could cause damage to other components or circuit boards. A wonderful piece that has lasted decades already deserves to be "refreshed" so it can carry on reliably for decades more. It's a piece of mind thing and perhaps a sensible course to take to ensure reasonable reliability and wory free use.
Hey Robert! Thanks for watching. Unfortunately, you missed the point of the video. I have not advocated to not do recapping at all. The video is about the quality of the capacitors in vintage gear vs the quality of caps we are seeing in newer gear. Watch again my comments around the 4:30 mark with regard to recapping my own units (and at 8:25). Each unit needs to be evaluated on its own and what the owner wants to do with the unit long term. Some units may be fine with just having the power supply recapped while others may want/need a total recap.
@@stereoniche Ya I get what you said, but a person with vintage gear is really better served to replace 40 plus year old components to get a sense of long term reliability. If they follow your expression here, it's back to "cross your fingers, turn on the power and hope it works" situation. Sure those more than 4 decades old components may last years more but I think the realistic expectation of them is they will fail soon. Also certainly, quality of components have fallen to the "more profit" side of things and quality and longevity have suffered, but old is old.
@@stereoniche I get the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" idea but if you did that with your car you would probably break down (of course it breaks down away from home) on a long trip... LOL That's not what one would want in their car or audio gear. Not rying to counter your message, just stating it's better to just make it reliable again.
When you recapped the emotiva, did the sound signature change?
YES, completely! It went from no sound (non-working) to GREAT sound (working). 🙂 When I bought it, the unit went straight into protection mode.
@@stereoniche haha. That was funny. I was assuming you recapped it and it changed the sound signature. why did you not send it back to emotiva?
@@kenmark5676 The unit is well past warranty by Emotive. I bought it as part of a group lot, so it was as-is.
How about sonics? Old stuff sound better as a whole?
As with anything, quality for the time has to taken into consideration. Of the Sonic speakers I have owned, I would not consider them a higher level brand. The point being, just because it may be vintage does not automatically translate to sounding better.
in the old days engineers were well educated and building the good as they possibly could. But in these days, units are built for an expected life span and it seems to be copy-paste without really understanding. In a modern device there seems to be a diode war happening, protecting this and that for exceptions after exception. And the more the better, enormous caps, noisy switch mode psu's as that reduces cost of parts and shipping. Engineering for consumers in stead of engineering for performance and quality.... /cheers
vintage = 1960 - 1994...hand made tokyo .....will never be surpassed or repeated....they had trash cans near every employee, if something wasnt perfect, anyone could throw it in the trash! no questions asked / no blaming!...i have a panasonic tv 1979, works perfect every pixel... 2023!
I recall seeing those manufacturing lines decades ago in some news coverage. It was not for audio electronics, but I do recall the level of detail they went through for each piece. Quite labor intensive.
100% correct , rotel gear from the 80's is a classic example of quality
the khartago is still warranty!
20 year
You dumped on Emotiva because of bad capacitors, but you you didn’t specify the problem when dumping on the Odyssey Khartago. So that we don’t assume it was operator negligence, please describe the failure.
Caps in power supplies of hifi and tv equipment made in China are absolute dreadful crap these days.
expierence speaks for itself. back in the day companies where proud of what they made and what was put into them now it's all about turnover and farming out labor. that in a nutshell should be a good indicator of what we all have to look forward to. glad I'm an old fart.
You may be right. With that said you can't compare modern gear that's used with TV viewing slash home theater use. The new gear in these situations is used much much more than any 2-ch rig from the 60's and 70's. Also all we're left with from 60's 70's for the most part is the stuff that made it. 3 times as much broken stuff got thrown out 35 years ago.
Food for thought.
vintage quality is much better , only the modern sound processor circuit is bettern in modern stereo. i prefer the vintage for built quality.