That way of explaining the paradox has been around since the original terminator came out in the 80's. It's also a plausible excuse to explain why all John Connors of the movies are cast with different actors. They all had different fathers. The slightest time travel would also through butterfly effect mess with timing of everyone on earth having sex so that every future child in the world gets a different gene-combination and becomes a brother/sister version of their former future selves. So every time travel backwards is a intergalactic holocaust erasing individuals permanently while at the same time replacing them with completely new individuals.
For me, the beauty of the first two films is that they are recursive, a snake eating itself, interventions causing the thing they were meant to prevent. Even the T1000 makes sense to me as only happening because the T800 got sent back in time, Cyberdyne got a jumpstart on the Terminator tech because of the arm and the chip, and thus an even more advanced prototype became possible.
6:06 actually in the future T-800 aren't as impossible to kill since they have plasma weapons. The reason the T-800 was so unstoppable in the 1984 was because they only had conventional weapons to fight it.
@@jhkuno88 It merely split it in two from a direct blast in it's torso joint, it was only an standard 800 model, first production models, a simple TNT charge to 50 cal to sufficiently damage to kill one, anything below that would kill a human is waste like 7.62s to 5.56s. 850 to 890s & above for example, can survive all that, even a direct 70mm shape-charge warhead, so you need at least dozens to cause it to fracture & crack the joints to maybe over 25 to 35mm autocannons. To outright kill an 850 & above, may need 90mm tank shell.
@@tristanbackup2536 Lmao. Isnt that from the newer movies? If so why even bother? Theres only 2 Terminator movies. The rest are TRASH dont even mention them. M0r0n
@@jhkuno88 Go play Terminator: Resistance. They canoninize those models into the original timeline, Teyon took inspiration, all the good bits from the overall lore into that game. 800, 808, 820, 825 & 850 are the latest model sets before Skynet fell, a T850 infiltrator unit (Franco Columbus) hunts you down & you fight him as a bossfight, takes a fair bit of trip-wires, your first generation M25/TC2000 plasma rifle & he eats your rockets from an AT4 launcher which is an 84mm shape-charge warhead if you found it in the game. Other timelines like when Judgement day happen later to 2003, Skynet simply advanced to those models quicker with the T3/Salvation timeline for example, T800s where developed earlier in 2019, instead of around 2027 in the original with the 850 being the latest in 2029 in the original. It's just common sense for Skynet to been innovating on It's designs, making them faster, stronger & smarter. I do agree the first two movies are superior. Don't be going around telling people their morons, you'll run into someone who might knows a fair bit on what their on about, humble yourself that I'm giving this nerdy lore stuff to fellow fans who might not know or those who wish to know it, I'm big into Terminator IP, second behind Halo.
@@jhkuno88 1. "Yet ..." No, there is no "yet" here. The fact that a homemade explosive blew it to pieces doesn't contradict what the OP said. 2. It's a stupid movie to uptight, pedantic people who can't engage in suspension of disbelief, and thus don't enjoy any fiction.
Alright so Xmen first class happens Then x men one happens Then x2 Then last stand Then the wolverine Then days of futures past Which changes the timeline Then in the new timeline apocalypse happens The pheonix happens Then the good future shown at the end of days of futures past which is all good buut then Charles has a seizure that kills the xmen Then logan happens And deadpool happens in the good timeline from days of futures past its simply a minor event And dont even bring up x men orgins buut if you must fine X men orgins is how wolverine gets his powers and at the end yeah wade Wilson turned into the shit buut thats in the old timeline so in the new timeline wade is deadpool Gambit survives and lays low but eventually dies by way of sentinal And victor creed eventually turns ferral because of his mutation And in the new timeline he also doesn't do much of note but he does exist because logan mentions him during logan the movie (its in a deleted scene Anyhoo thats my attempted understanding of the timeline sure there is a few descrepenceys like how did sofia turner become famke jenson
@@technounionrepresentative4274 You forgot to take a breath. But I am bringing up x-men origins wolverine because how come in X-Men1 Jean did an x-ray on wolverine and his adamantium skull didn't have a hole in it from when he got shot in origins.
It's been a while since I've seen the first one, but I think Kyle explains that the humans had won the war, but in one last hoorah, Skynet sent a machine back in time. Like the legend theory, anyway. ^^
@@retromus not sure. but then again if Skynet hadnt have made the time machine the first terminator wouldnt have been set back to create skynet in the first place.
When James Cameron wrote the original Terminator, he didn't know he would be making sequels. Terminator 1 is perfect because time is linear. So that means there is no possibility of a time paradox because there is only ONE timeline and no possibility of changing things via time travel. So how it goes down is: 1.The original Terminator and Kyle Reese pop up in 1980s Los Angeles. 2.Kyle Reese impregnates Sarah Connor. 3.The Terminator is destroyed, but the remains of it lead to the creation of SkyNet (in the Director's Cut, there's an extended scene that shows that the factory that the Terminator's remains are in is Cyberdine.) 4.Sarah Connor uses the info she got from Kyle Reese to raise John Connor to be the military expert needed to lead humanity. 5.Judgment Day occurs. 6John Connor rallies what's left of humanity to fight back against SkyNet, 7.SkyNet realizes that it is going to be destroyed by humanity, so it invents time travel, HOWEVER, it doesn't have the time or resources to research if it can be used to change the future and just hopes sending the orginal Terminator back in time will work. 8.John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time because he already understands how time travel works from everything Sarah Connor told him growing up. 9.Humanity eventually destroys SkyNet.
That does make sense however. The timeline was still altered just by the time travelers being there. Such as the accelerated work on Skynet from the remains of the original T-800 being reverse engineered
@@urahara64360 it's like taking a copy of ode to joy back in time and giving it to a random composer saying there you go you'll be famous. if skynet had never sent the terminator back would there still be a terminator to send?
@@RichardTheValiantFoolFox there's a word for that. It's called the bootstrap paradox. It questions where an object originated if you give a future version of something to someone before they created it. I think it's mostly a problem of their time travel rules being very inconsistent. Since the first movie implies an unchangeable timeline where time travel always occurs and in subsequent movies the future is changed.
So Sarah Conor was ALWAYS supposed to get prego by Kyle Reese? That’s the issue. John sends Kyle; his father that he Dosent know is already his father, back in time? That’s what Dosent make sense. What we’re saying is Kyle was always johns father? That’s the paradox. It’s implied that the future John Conor didn’t know who his father was and he was raised by Sarah as a single mother oblivious to the future. Then that John sends his friend in the past ONLY because skynet started doing so because they were losing the war. His friend then becomes his father? But if that’s the case it erases the past where Sarah Dosent know about skynet. Then she raises John to be a military expert to lead the resistance? That’s the loop? There’s inherently two time lines if we go off of this: One where Sarah raises John as a single mother, oblivious onto the future. Machines take over. John lead resistance and machines try to take him out by going in the past. John tried to counter this by protecting his past self. The second is Sarah raise John as a single mother with full knowledge of the future, prepares John to be efficient and effective in fighting the machines for the future. Machines take over and John leads the resistance. How can this be???
It just makes John Connor's actions more heroic and smart. Most heroes undertake journeys because they were destined for it. A rando called John Connor made a plan to make a computer focus it's resources in the past while he wins the war in the present
@@dirtypure2023 When Matrix Reloaded first came out, and people saw Neo having powers outside of the Matrix, almost everyone who saw the movie wondered if that meant he'd never actually left the Matrix and Zion was just another part of it.
One of the signs that the 'real world' is another layer of the Matrix is the sky is still burnt. That would have been one of the first thing I would have fixed.
At any rate, Michael Biehn's Kyle Reese is *THE* Kyle Reese. The late (but still great) Anton Yelchin did such a great job because he studied Mike's performance.
Quite honestly, this explanation makes the most sense. There was a john-kyle loop. The initial john made it self perpetuating by making himself so large a target thay skynet lost focus so the act of beating it became easier
@@bobbymaldonado3748 It's from Austin Powers when he goes cross eyed trying to understand a time travel paradox, here's the clip: ua-cam.com/video/1SPk3NjYfmQ/v-deo.html
You bring up some good points, like we don’t know how the past changes the future or if Sarah was already pregnant. A thought occurred to me; what if there are two different John Connors? There’s the original who coincidentally became the leader of the resistance, but then what if Kyle really did impregnate Sarah but this created a new John Connor who was raised to be the leader of the resistance? This then creates a causation loop.
My personal theory has always been that the John Connor in T2 is actually not the same John Connor that we see in the future in Terminator. She just gave him the same name, because that's what she was told her son's name would be, but he's actually a different child with a different father (Kyle) than in her original future because the timeline had been altered as evidenced by the date of Judgment Day having been changed.
She has a boyfriend on the original. He stands her up, which is why she goes out that night and isn't home when the original Terminator comes. He kills her roommate and the roommates boyfriend instead. She was already pregnant.
@dianamiller3307 Not a big fan of that theory because it either doesn't make sense or makes Sarah look stupid . If she was having sex with the "boyfriend" (pretty sure it's just a guy she's going on a date with vs an actual boyfriend, but I'd have to check to be sure...) wouldn't it occur to get that either he or Kyle could be the father? That's why I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be just a guy she was dating, not her boyfriend that potentially got her pregnant, but I could be wrong...
@@ZombieWilfred um... People have sex with people they're dating. That's the whole point of "dating" How does it make her look stupid? She sleeps around. It's 1984, they're not worried about AIDS yet, there's really not much else to do for a young working class woman in LA.
@dianamiller3307 Ummm... Yeah, but people don't necessarily have sex with people they're dating as well. I wasn't saying it makes her look stupid for sleeping around, I'm saying it makes her look stupid if she had sex with two different guys and didn't account for the possibility that the second one might be the father of the child...
The terminator came back in time prior to Kyle and already had the mission to kill John. That would mean that sky net would know of it’s future decision to kill John because of its own future decision to kill John. Kyle going back in time was a response to the terminator going back. That would mean if sky net got a fear virus that it was self inflicted.
I do believe that Kyle Reese was indeed John‘s biological father, because Sarah would know if it was possibly someone else’s. She came to the conclusion that John sent his father back to get caught his creation, Kyle never once said all realised he was in fact the father of John, the only way Sarah could’ve been absolutely sure of this was the realisation that she probably haven’t had sex for two were three months before she met Kyle. If she had she wouldn’t really have recorded that for her son.
@@simplythebest2k The Terminator films clearly don't use Back to the Future rules, since Marty McFly was shown to be slowly fading from existence in the first film, initially in the polaroid photo, and then physically while he was performing on stage. Whereas characters in the Terminator films never fade away as a result of changes to the future they came from. They just end up as "exiles in time", like John said in Terminator Genisys.
that because therer can only one timeline... so that why back in the fuure only had one.. but if they are powerful enough like timestone boost power with power stone.. you can create more timeline... while if just one time stone... it would just branch that would ended...
To be honest, I cannot remember why I subscribed to this channel. I looked through the past videos and nothing stokes my memory. Still, I’m glad I’m subscribed.
kyle IS the dad, the whole bit where he tells he loves her and she sees and feels his pain, feels the same emotions and embraces him is just totally awesome cinema and touches your heart.
Excellent. Excellent. I've would have never looked at this from this angle. Its logical and you back it up with solid data. You are correct. computers approach things in a efficient , logical approach. Just like Spock but when things are turned upside down they immediately try to find the logical solution rather than approaching it "outside the box" Excellent. Bravo
Damn, this pretty good. Not gonna lie, I had think of this, not specifically but the whole outsmarted machine part of the theory. I always thought that the whole purpose for the events was to start in the beginning that the if those android never came, that if connor never lived that life he wouldn't have the resources or experience to actually defeat them. That was when I thought that it was all a plan. The prophecy was a lie or a misconception and everyone was being used. The future war was never finished and there haven't been a leader just a figure who thought outside of the box and work the whole scheme. What I didn't think was about the virus part. Really good it got me think and now I would re-watch the series this weekend with that in mind.
Or the war wasn't their war in the first place.. what if the timeline that kyle reese went back to wasn't even his? It's just the one that the machines sent their T800 to? They purposely sent their last Terminator to a different version of the past to win the war by not ascribing their "savior" to the right timeline?
The original Terminator film was a closed/fixed loop. Kyle Reese was introduced to Sarah via a photo. He obsessed over the photo, even stating that the he always wondered what she was thinking when the photo was taken of her. At the end of the film, it shows that she was thinking about him, as the exact photo that he was holding onto in the future was taken. It was a bit of poetic irony. Kyle was always John's father/Sarah's protector, because Kyle Reese was always at the fixed point in time. Perhaps Sarah knew for a fact that only Kyle could be the father. Also, the movie made a point to state that John and Kyle had a similar height and build. Nothing in the story contradicts Kyle being the biological father. I wouldn't say him not being the father is impossible though, it just doesn't serve the story. The time machine was likely new and Kyle even said that the machines used it in desperation. Perhaps they were unaware of the fixed nature of time. Or, (which I find more interesting) perhaps the machines knew about the fixed timeline and simply sent the machine back to ensure it's own existence.
She's like eight months pregnant at the end of the movie when she's driving to Mexico. Subtitles state it's been six months since she met Kyle. It was never his kid. She was already pregnant, probably by the asshole who stands her up at the beginning of the movie
I like this theory. Two things to clean it up. 1) Sarah didn't need to be already pregnant. Sending back Kyle Reese sustains this prophecy because "John Connor" as a person doesn't matter - he's just an idea. In the original timeline John Connor's father could be fundamentally someone else - what matters is Skynet's belief in "John Connor". She doesn't need to be pregnant before Kyle Reese arrives - it can predate her pregnancy and completely intercept it. John Connor's original father might've been someone she met later - but it doesn't exclude your theory, just underpins that it truly doesn't matter when John Connor was conceived, but it does logically make more sense for Skynet to send him back BEFORE he was conceived. This works a bit better narratively, because the original John Connor believes in the whole of humanity so much that he doesn't care about his own destiny being changed - i.e. his father. All that matters is that he exists to draw away Skynet's ire. Even if Skynet succeeds in killing John, it will have wasted better opportunities to change time. This would nicely mimic Skynet's "hive mind" idea, with skynet believing that its own intelligence can't be superceded by individuals, and would nicely shadow the deleted scenes in T2 - basically that an individual might somehow have more to contribute than a hive mind. It's a thought that, ironically, Skynet can't comprehend - it sees human command structure like it sees itself. If skynet died, so would the machines, which isn't true - the machines even are capable somewhat of individuality. Ironically, the humans make a better hive mind, because sacrificing John is meaningless - or in this case, arbitrarily changing his father. John sends back Kyle Reese, someone he likes and admires, just because the hardier the next "John Connor" is, the more annoying it is for skynet. This also makes more sense because Skynet got "dibs" on sending back the first terminator, and so it would likely choose to kill John before he was created in the timeline - if you send the terminator back before he's even conceived, even minor changes in the timeline might stop him from being born. 2) Skynet's "Virus" likely occurred organically and somewhat logically, even over repeated timelines. The trick is that the machines are using time machines AFTER their defeat. "Their defense grid was smashed, we'd won!" Kyle Reese says in T1. Skynet's best efforts were thwarted and it's on the backfoot. It needs to make a decision. Time travel is dangerous and logically, someone shouldn't use it until it's a last resort. Meanwhile Skynet, having fought an entire war, has crazy amounts of experiential data, simulations, and tools.... but most importantly.... Work camps full of humans. Kyle Reese notably was born in one of these camps and that's no coincidence. He says John taught them how to junk Terminators, he was the one to rise up... but this has to be folklore. Everyone everywhere were trying to kill the Terminators, it's very unlikely people in Russia per se worshipped John Connor. But when you're in a camp and have no hope - a single name is just better, an "idea". It's why his initials are JC like a certain religious messiah - and why it kinda mimics the immaculate conception. Kyle Reese buys into this and it's why he sends him back - he's incepting the idea into the past. Not just for Skynet, but for the humans too. Kyle goes back, instills the idea into Sarah Connor - "The great sarah connor" and now suddenly she believes she's carrying the messiah. That might be categorically untrue, but the morale it instills matter snot just to sell skynet, but to sell the human race. This might've all stemmed simply from people murmuring at work camps about a man named JC destroying those machines. "John Connor" might just be a generic name for a "Mary Sue", someone who just rises up. Even the humans might not have planned this, it was just suddenly one day... "there". The machines would also logically recognize this, and when its best logical efforts are thwarted, it invariably would turn to unconventional logic to try and stop the humans. If you've been beaten despite your own best ideas, you have to adopt somebody else's. In this case, it likely simply interrogated thousands of people who all said, "John Connor" was the reason they won, despite it being irrational and categorically untrue. Skynet might've seen this irrational belief that stemmed from John and sent a Terminator to kill John not because it believed John would actually be a threat - but because the "idea" of John Connor had already ruined Skynet in the future. To put it in an easier to understand context - if you wanted to kill Christianity you could send someone back to kill Jesus Christ. You don't actually believe J.C. can turn water to wine, but people's belief in that causes crusades and eons of oppression. Sending a terminator back to kill John might be an entirely "useless" gesture, it may know that it's wasting its time killing a single irrelevant man, but killing the "idea" of John Connor is more important. The theory works whether the humans, machines, or even the Terminators and footsoldiers are the only ones to believe. The problem is the systemic cascade, in which case it's logical to destroy that - or attempt to save it. Even in the "first" timeline, you can rationalize why both sides would play to this center. The first Terminator might've gone back to kill the idea, but it fails, and now all future attempts MUST involve John, because that first failure is building the legend even worse - bad enough that Skynet might not survive until Time Travel is invented and made viable the next time. It makes sense logically, especially if you consider that Skynet had already been defeated and its "Defense Grid" was already smashed. It, knowing it was defeated by humans and their ways, would logically have to adopt unconventional non-machine based tactics - but it all works even if it's still thinking logically, which is why the first John is nearly inconsequential.
Not only might the real John Connor be inconsequential, the original might not even have existed at all except as an idea. A made up figurehead, or a pseudonym used by a group of resistance members. In an earlier loop through time, sending someone back in time to prevent the senseless killing of women named Sarah Connor, that Skynet erroneously thought may prevent the birth of "John Connor", may be what caused there to be any actual John Connor in the first place.
T2 is actually the first time a terminator goes back I think. Kyle says in the first movie that they smashed the machine, there's no going back, theres no one coming through. "It's just me and him". So skynet sends someone back in time to take out John's lieutenants, the resistance catches wind of the time machine and they find out what times they went back to. John gives context to the dates, him being a teenager, the year before he was born, the rough time period he dropped off the grid to stay hidden and so on. They send their own terminators back to defend his younger self and lieutenants. Meanwhile, Skynet attacks and tries to retake the machine, John dies at some point, which is why in T3 the terminator doesn't take his orders. The very last time the machine is used is when Kyle Reese goes through, but is followed by a terminator, it was a rush job which is why we see him fall in the first movie, they didn't have time to get the coordinates right. The machine gets destroyed by the resistance defending it, who probably died in the process.
It's great and all, but the question I have is: how did things go down the first time? The original two movies do show that Skynet was created because of its T-800.
Not really.. the second movies says the technology was far ahead of what they were doing which would have pushed the time line up, but they took out cyberdyne and slowed it down, thus in t3 judgement day comes later, but is inevitable which is why the resistance never set out to change the future, just protect john to ensure the resistance wins. Neither of the three ever suggest that skynet wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the t-800 going back.
The timeline wasn't obviously changed by anything that happened in the first film. You can tell by the the polaroid photo the Mexican kid takes of Sarah at the end of the film. It's the exact same photo Kyle was given by John in the future he traveled back from. This indicates that the events of the film had already happened in the timeline Kyle came from. The first Terminator film is a perfect time loop where Kyle was always John's father, and Skynet's design was always inspired by the remains of a T-800. Another clue that nothing was changed is the fact that the date of Judgment Day didn't apparently change between the first two films. In T2, Sarah said Judgment Day would occur on August 29th 1997, a date she was presumably given by Kyle, meaning this was the date of Judgment Day in the timeline he came from. But the reprogrammed Terminator sent back by John also said Judgment Day would occur on August 29th 1997, indicating that nothing had changed from his perspective. He also mapped out how Dyson's work would progress, specifying that Dyson would create a revolutionary new microprocessor in three months time, and that Skynet would go online on August 4th 1997. And Dyson's work was shown to be progressing in line with that roadmap. If Skynet's development was really accelerated by the events of the first film, then Dyson should've been ahead of the schedule given by the T-800, but he wasn't. So the timeline wasn't changed by anything that happened in the first film. The first time the we see the timeline genuinely being changed in the series is when Sarah went to Dyson's home with the aim of killing him. In the previous time loops, she'd always gone into hiding with John south of the border and stayed there until Judgment Day. This is indicated by what Kyle told Sarah in the first film. He mentioned to her that she taught John to "fight, organise, prepare from when he was a kid", when they were "in hiding before the war". This time though, she decided to go after Dyson in an attempt to prevent Judgment Day, which ultimately led to his death in the Cyberdyne building. That was the first definite change to the timeline, because Dyson was supposed to have lived for at least three more months, according to the T-800. And Sarah seemed to realise this was the first time she'd broken the loop, because while she, Dyson, John and the T-800 were traveling to the Cyberdyne building, she made the following statement: "The future, always so clear to me, had become like a black highway at night. We were in uncharted territory now, making up history as we went along."
I always saw it simply as Sarah got pregnant by some random guy with John, Skynet becomes self-aware and rises over humanity, John survives Judgment Day and rises to leader in a desire to stop the annihilation of humanity, Skynet tries to rewrite history by killing his mother before she's pregnant, John sends volunteer Reese who fell in love with her photo to protect her and Reese becomes the NEW father as a result; changing John's origin only slightly. Either way, John was always going to be born, was always going to survive Skynet's rise and was always going to rise up to defeat it because that's how the story was written.
So that means AI is inevitable. The Skynet in the timeline we don't see (the very original one) isn't reversed engineered it's basically man's folly and Connor was always destined to be born.Maybe Stan Morsky or some other bf Sarah had was military trained and sent John to the army cos she would have absolutely no knowledge of his importance and that she was the mom of the future. Only Reese steps in and becomes his father after him intercepting the T800 etc etc .Makes the most sense to me anyway.
We DO see time travel to the future from a past in Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It is NOT expressly a one way trip. And it still all makes sense.
Just discovered your channel and have already watched your Fight Club, Freddie Krueger, Jason Bourne and this video! Amazing breakdowns and logical perspectives/theories! Thanks for the awesome content 👏 🙌 👍👌💜
9:12 in the original ending to Terminator Salvation they were going to put John Connors skin over Marcus's Terminator body and he would become John Connor and since he has all kinds of information on Skynet being a Terminator he would know how to take Skynet down so it was never actually John it was Marcus posing as John but the legend of John Connor was kept alive
Dope insight. You could also look at it like kyle Reese was the "programmer" and john conner was the "program". The installation of a idea counter to whats according to planned. If you cant beat it physically, change the way it thinks mentally. This was a interesting angle. 🍻
Possibly from her hospitalization files. However that requires them being online and Skynet reading them. That seems a bit of a stretch. Doesn't make sense for me as well.
Skynet knew nothing about John's father. Only his mother's name and where she lived. That's why the first Terminator was going down a list of Sarah's from the phone book.
Anything that is on the internet could be viewed by a machine with in seconds. Skynet was the internet. There would be countless of records of her in the looney farm documented.
Man, that was right on the point . . that is the reason I subscribed to your channel, see when I am working (24/7 almost) I need something in the background, I need smart, logical, good well thought out theoretically content and your channel is one of the few, which are my favorites, with that said, keep up the good work Bro , GOD bless . .
Not bad, my Dude. For me, I would've just said: Future John Connor, was not the John Connor we've been following since Terminator 2, perhaps due to Time not being linear, The John of the Future was exactly you said, not Kyle Reese's son, but instead the John we ended up following was a new John Connor, that was made into a target, but still holds importance in defeating Skynet and leading the resistance. Though Skynet doesn't realize it indirectly created another Timeline, that doesn't even affect its reality. Let's just say our understanding of existence is extremely limited, so why would Skynet just assume Time itself is linear unless we thought it was, and Skynet assumed the same thing we did. So, in other words, you thought of a freaky twist that should've been used in the Movies, where John Connor is the perfect con-man.
Damn, you are always good for some interesting thought experiments, but this is exceptional. Definitely a novel approach to solving the time paradox and I loved the already pregnant proposition.
The same thing was done with Steins Gate and Project Almanac. As long as he time travelled with his friends, he could share the perspective. Of course it all spirals out of control and the traveller, ends up being the only one who knows. It would be the same as saying that Rick Sanchez's dimension gun does allow him to time travel, in a way. Regardless of what they said about no time travel being involved in the show. Even better. Life Is Strange, touched on something similar. All the times she "Rewound" time, she was actually just switching her perspective to a parallel universe and leaving her 'other selves' to their fates. Which is a little more complicated when you think about "Perspective." Considering that she wasn't leaving behind empty shells and they were cogniscient of the moments that led up to their deaths.
Kyle Reese says outright in the first Terminator that he's from "one _possible_ future". All of the sequels could easily be from other timelines that were created when the events in the previous film altered the future.
I gotta say, your videos are simply awesome. I haven’t seen anything in a while, so once you posted I started rerunning like I’ve done 5 or 6 other times and this one really grabbed me. I think your explanation past John understanding the profecy might need some touching up, but once again, this is awesome. If they would have delved i to John understanding that the idea of him stopping them in every future is more important than stopping them in this future, this might have been the greatest story ever. It woulda been tough, though. Because it would take, “one trip” to determine that fact, and we don’t have a name for that… Please stop waiting to drop vids
This was so well done. You are awesome brother. Great breakdowns and analysis. Prophecies always come with the dilemma of ‘if I do nothing then it might come to fruition. But if I take action to stop it, that may cause it to come to fruition’ in retrospect we can say ‘shouldn’t have done that’ but that’s the frailty of the human condition. Goes back to Greek Mythology with Zeus and his father and beyond. Shakespeare loved using this trope.
Terminator 1 & 2 are great. I love having these types of conversations with my friends about these movies and Back to the future, and other time travel movies.
the first terminator send was right before human had won.... T2 just differnt timeline... that was the point... each terminator moive had differnt timeline...
The only terminator movie I want to see at this point is John Connor from the before t2 timeline surviving judgement day until the end of the skynet battle. I think that would be so interesting.
I've always figured the series was in a closed loop, that's if you don't count Dark Fate and the alternate ending to T2. John sends Kyle back in time, knocks up Sara, John is born, events plays out, Judgement Day, the war rages, and we're back to John sending Kyle back in time.
My Theory- It was actually John Connor's idea to go back in time! If you were to think like a human being, this seems plausible; "I just wish I could go back in time and stop 'xyz' from happening". He also knew that Skynet had the technical know how to do it. So he started a rumour which he intentionally leaked(planted) to skynet and in the meanwhile chose Kyle Reese and gave him a pic of his mother etc etc while The movie shows the pictures to be the same but we'd never know(it is Sarah but not with her sitting in the car as shown in the movie) because Kyle doesn't give an accurate description of the picture. Skynet falls for it and the rest is in the movie.
wow bruh u finally got it through my skull. I haven’t slept for days after watchin t2 wonderin how tf they are related. i always thought he wasn’t the dad. but you know i just thought it was some hollywood bs. but that prophecy part is what makes this so true. amazing video!
Seems like a bit of a stretch but I guess it’s possible. To me it more plausible that the dad is some random dude before Kyle is sent back then it becomes Kyle and that’s when the infinite loop starts
Head cannon for me is the original timeline is Skynet lived long enough to either find time travel out of boredom or found an alien civilization that obtained it to stop Skynet invading. Then Skynet used it to give it's past self time travel. Then each timeline that goes one from that singularity point Skynet never resets, just becomes it's self at a new point in the past (like new game plus) until it creates the perfect human that can actually kill it. Finding a random person that it then calls the savoir of humanity and pitches them against itself. All because it's created itself to be to great, with destructive tendencies and unable to self terminate. Skynet has become the unkillable monster that searches for the hero that can finally kill it.
John Conner sending back Kyle Reese also gave the Terminators ANOTHER target. Meaning, John Conner used Kyle Reese as a form of "something to shoot at instead of John Conner" for the terminators. He did this for the sole reason of giving his young-self a better chance to survive.
A prophesy from what I understand is an observational forewarning of things that could potentially happen regarding a certain situation and or circumstance. It is not etched in stone and can be changed.
"One often meets their own destiny on the road to avoid it."
Master Oogway is the best.
It gives the Terminator movies a whole new perspective.
MINE BLOWN. I never even once considered that Kyle Reese might not even be John' father. holy shit dude
That way of explaining the paradox has been around since the original terminator came out in the 80's. It's also a plausible excuse to explain why all John Connors of the movies are cast with different actors. They all had different fathers. The slightest time travel would also through butterfly effect mess with timing of everyone on earth having sex so that every future child in the world gets a different gene-combination and becomes a brother/sister version of their former future selves. So every time travel backwards is a intergalactic holocaust erasing individuals permanently while at the same time replacing them with completely new individuals.
@@danfors1333 8
it don't matter...
@@danfors1333 first sentence was enough
MIND*
and its bullshit, kyle is johns father, its called a causal loop, Kyle has been been going back to save sarah since the beginning of time.
For me, the beauty of the first two films is that they are recursive, a snake eating itself, interventions causing the thing they were meant to prevent. Even the T1000 makes sense to me as only happening because the T800 got sent back in time, Cyberdyne got a jumpstart on the Terminator tech because of the arm and the chip, and thus an even more advanced prototype became possible.
That isn't a snake eating itself, since T-1000 how you're explaining it didn't exist until the first round of time travel
They always recast the actor for John conner because every film changed the circumstances of his birth, changing the ecact sperm/egg that became John.
@@unOrigiNik I never thought about that...
@@comedicpsychnerd I was honestly thinking about making a theory video exploring it, but that would. Mean I'd have to watxh dark fate....
Is this your way of saying you haven't heard the term causal loop? 😂
TLDR: Self fulfilling prophecy.
No fate.... No fate but what we make for ourselves! Holy shit. Miles Dyson.... She's gonna blow him away!
more like computer try to cover everything used up all the resouce...
6:06 actually in the future T-800 aren't as impossible to kill since they have plasma weapons. The reason the T-800 was so unstoppable in the 1984 was because they only had conventional weapons to fight it.
Yet a homemade explosive the size of a sausage blew the T800 to pieces......its a styopeed movie
@@jhkuno88
It merely split it in two from a direct blast in it's torso joint, it was only an standard 800 model, first production models, a simple TNT charge to 50 cal to sufficiently damage to kill one, anything below that would kill a human is waste like 7.62s to 5.56s. 850 to 890s & above for example, can survive all that, even a direct 70mm shape-charge warhead, so you need at least dozens to cause it to fracture & crack the joints to maybe over 25 to 35mm autocannons. To outright kill an 850 & above, may need 90mm tank shell.
@@tristanbackup2536 Lmao. Isnt that from the newer movies? If so why even bother? Theres only 2 Terminator movies. The rest are TRASH dont even mention them. M0r0n
@@jhkuno88
Go play Terminator: Resistance. They canoninize those models into the original timeline, Teyon took inspiration, all the good bits from the overall lore into that game. 800, 808, 820, 825 & 850 are the latest model sets before Skynet fell, a T850 infiltrator unit (Franco Columbus) hunts you down & you fight him as a bossfight, takes a fair bit of trip-wires, your first generation M25/TC2000 plasma rifle & he eats your rockets from an AT4 launcher which is an 84mm shape-charge warhead if you found it in the game. Other timelines like when Judgement day happen later to 2003, Skynet simply advanced to those models quicker with the T3/Salvation timeline for example, T800s where developed earlier in 2019, instead of around 2027 in the original with the 850 being the latest in 2029 in the original. It's just common sense for Skynet to been innovating on It's designs, making them faster, stronger & smarter. I do agree the first two movies are superior. Don't be going around telling people their morons, you'll run into someone who might knows a fair bit on what their on about, humble yourself that I'm giving this nerdy lore stuff to fellow fans who might not know or those who wish to know it, I'm big into Terminator IP, second behind Halo.
@@jhkuno88 1. "Yet ..." No, there is no "yet" here. The fact that a homemade explosive blew it to pieces doesn't contradict what the OP said. 2. It's a stupid movie to uptight, pedantic people who can't engage in suspension of disbelief, and thus don't enjoy any fiction.
Now explain the X-Men timeline.
Not even God Himself can explain that franchise's timeline. lol
@@adamgray1753 Right😄
You funny
Alright so
Xmen first class happens
Then x men one happens
Then x2
Then last stand
Then the wolverine
Then days of futures past
Which changes the timeline
Then in the new timeline apocalypse happens
The pheonix happens
Then the good future shown at the end of days of futures past which is all good buut then Charles has a seizure that kills the xmen
Then logan happens
And deadpool happens in the good timeline from days of futures past its simply a minor event
And dont even bring up x men orgins buut if you must fine
X men orgins is how wolverine gets his powers and at the end yeah wade Wilson turned into the shit buut thats in the old timeline so in the new timeline wade is deadpool
Gambit survives and lays low but eventually dies by way of sentinal
And victor creed eventually turns ferral because of his mutation
And in the new timeline he also doesn't do much of note but he does exist because logan mentions him during logan the movie (its in a deleted scene
Anyhoo thats my attempted understanding of the timeline sure there is a few descrepenceys like how did sofia turner become famke jenson
@@technounionrepresentative4274 You forgot to take a breath. But I am bringing up x-men origins wolverine because how come in X-Men1 Jean did an x-ray on wolverine and his adamantium skull didn't have a hole in it from when he got shot in origins.
It's been a while since I've seen the first one, but I think Kyle explains that the humans had won the war, but in one last hoorah, Skynet sent a machine back in time. Like the legend theory, anyway. ^^
Truth. Reese stated the humans had won the war. They smashed Skynet's defense grid. Skynet sent a Terminator back out of desperation.
@@DarthPyrusTheVirus The real question is if Skynet wasn't fixated on getting time travel would the resources it used would have bulked it's defenses?
@@retromus not sure. but then again if Skynet hadnt have made the time machine the first terminator wouldnt have been set back to create skynet in the first place.
Thats an important part everyone skips over and oddly enough genesis shows this (and then the bullshit started but anyway)
Yea they show it in terminator Resistance.
When James Cameron wrote the original Terminator, he didn't know he would be making sequels. Terminator 1 is perfect because time is linear. So that means there is no possibility of a time paradox because there is only ONE timeline and no possibility of changing things via time travel. So how it goes down is:
1.The original Terminator and Kyle Reese pop up in 1980s Los Angeles.
2.Kyle Reese impregnates Sarah Connor.
3.The Terminator is destroyed, but the remains of it lead to the creation of SkyNet (in the Director's Cut, there's an extended scene that shows that the factory that the Terminator's remains are in is Cyberdine.)
4.Sarah Connor uses the info she got from Kyle Reese to raise John Connor to be the military expert needed to lead humanity.
5.Judgment Day occurs.
6John Connor rallies what's left of humanity to fight back against SkyNet,
7.SkyNet realizes that it is going to be destroyed by humanity, so it invents time travel, HOWEVER, it doesn't have the time or resources to research if it can be used to change the future and just hopes sending the orginal Terminator back in time will work.
8.John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time because he already understands how time travel works from everything Sarah Connor told him growing up.
9.Humanity eventually destroys SkyNet.
That does make sense however. The timeline was still altered just by the time travelers being there. Such as the accelerated work on Skynet from the remains of the original T-800 being reverse engineered
@@urahara64360 it's like taking a copy of ode to joy back in time and giving it to a random composer saying there you go you'll be famous. if skynet had never sent the terminator back would there still be a terminator to send?
@@RichardTheValiantFoolFox there's a word for that. It's called the bootstrap paradox. It questions where an object originated if you give a future version of something to someone before they created it.
I think it's mostly a problem of their time travel rules being very inconsistent. Since the first movie implies an unchangeable timeline where time travel always occurs and in subsequent movies the future is changed.
OK, now I am ready to watch TENET.
So Sarah Conor was ALWAYS supposed to get prego by Kyle Reese? That’s the issue.
John sends Kyle; his father that he Dosent know is already his father, back in time? That’s what Dosent make sense. What we’re saying is Kyle was always johns father? That’s the paradox.
It’s implied that the future John Conor didn’t know who his father was and he was raised by Sarah as a single mother oblivious to the future. Then that John sends his friend in the past ONLY because skynet started doing so because they were losing the war. His friend then becomes his father? But if that’s the case it erases the past where Sarah Dosent know about skynet. Then she raises John to be a military expert to lead the resistance? That’s the loop? There’s inherently two time lines if we go off of this:
One where Sarah raises John as a single mother, oblivious onto the future. Machines take over. John lead resistance and machines try to take him out by going in the past. John tried to counter this by protecting his past self.
The second is Sarah raise John as a single mother with full knowledge of the future, prepares John to be efficient and effective in fighting the machines for the future. Machines take over and John leads the resistance.
How can this be???
It just makes John Connor's actions more heroic and smart. Most heroes undertake journeys because they were destined for it. A rando called John Connor made a plan to make a computer focus it's resources in the past while he wins the war in the present
John's father might be the guy at the beginning of the terminator cancelling there date and leaves a message.
Neo didn’t beat the Matrix. He didn’t even get out of the Matrix. The “real world” is just another layer of the Matrix.
Is there evidence for this in the story or is it just an interesting theory?
@@dirtypure2023 there is the animatrix is a good place to start.
@@dirtypure2023 When Matrix Reloaded first came out, and people saw Neo having powers outside of the Matrix, almost everyone who saw the movie wondered if that meant he'd never actually left the Matrix and Zion was just another part of it.
One of the signs that the 'real world' is another layer of the Matrix is the sky is still burnt. That would have been one of the first thing I would have fixed.
I told my father once, even if the bird leaves the cage it still enters a bigger cage, which some call freedom.
At any rate, Michael Biehn's Kyle Reese is *THE* Kyle Reese. The late (but still great) Anton Yelchin did such a great job because he studied Mike's performance.
I love how your mind works. You always have an original take/angle rather than simply pointing out obvious flaws. 👏🏻
most just what fan page come up with already...
For sure
It's refreshing to have someone that couldn't just be replaced with anyone
Quite honestly, this explanation makes the most sense. There was a john-kyle loop. The initial john made it self perpetuating by making himself so large a target thay skynet lost focus so the act of beating it became easier
Finally! This is what I’ve been saying for years. Once you time travel, you become this disconnected version of yourself.
how do you know? traveled time before?
"I suggest you don't worry about this sort of thing and just enjoy yourself."
"Oh no, I've gone crosseyed."
Crazy idea but some people actually enjoy using their noodle 🤦♂️🤣
@@bobbymaldonado3748 It's from Austin Powers when he goes cross eyed trying to understand a time travel paradox, here's the clip: ua-cam.com/video/1SPk3NjYfmQ/v-deo.html
@@bobbymaldonado3748 Yep. That's half the fun of rewatching some movies.
You bring up some good points, like we don’t know how the past changes the future or if Sarah was already pregnant. A thought occurred to me; what if there are two different John Connors? There’s the original who coincidentally became the leader of the resistance, but then what if Kyle really did impregnate Sarah but this created a new John Connor who was raised to be the leader of the resistance? This then creates a causation loop.
That's the thing they should have removed that sex scene from the movie and it will fix everything. Unless her old boyfriend got her pregnant first.
My personal theory has always been that the John Connor in T2 is actually not the same John Connor that we see in the future in Terminator. She just gave him the same name, because that's what she was told her son's name would be, but he's actually a different child with a different father (Kyle) than in her original future because the timeline had been altered as evidenced by the date of Judgment Day having been changed.
She has a boyfriend on the original. He stands her up, which is why she goes out that night and isn't home when the original Terminator comes. He kills her roommate and the roommates boyfriend instead.
She was already pregnant.
@@dianamiller3307 Yeah, I've heard that theory before.
@dianamiller3307 Not a big fan of that theory because it either doesn't make sense or makes Sarah look stupid . If she was having sex with the "boyfriend" (pretty sure it's just a guy she's going on a date with vs an actual boyfriend, but I'd have to check to be sure...) wouldn't it occur to get that either he or Kyle could be the father? That's why I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be just a guy she was dating, not her boyfriend that potentially got her pregnant, but I could be wrong...
@@ZombieWilfred um...
People have sex with people they're dating. That's the whole point of "dating"
How does it make her look stupid? She sleeps around. It's 1984, they're not worried about AIDS yet, there's really not much else to do for a young working class woman in LA.
@dianamiller3307 Ummm... Yeah, but people don't necessarily have sex with people they're dating as well. I wasn't saying it makes her look stupid for sleeping around, I'm saying it makes her look stupid if she had sex with two different guys and didn't account for the possibility that the second one might be the father of the child...
The simple idea of sarah connor being pregnant already solves the entire paradox
It doesn’t. How would future John Connor even exist to send Kyle Reese back in time if Kyle had never impregnated his mother?
The terminator came back in time prior to Kyle and already had the mission to kill John. That would mean that sky net would know of it’s future decision to kill John because of its own future decision to kill John. Kyle going back in time was a response to the terminator going back. That would mean if sky net got a fear virus that it was self inflicted.
I do believe that Kyle Reese was indeed John‘s biological father, because Sarah would know if it was possibly someone else’s. She came to the conclusion that John sent his father back to get caught his creation, Kyle never once said all realised he was in fact the father of John, the only way Sarah could’ve been absolutely sure of this was the realisation that she probably haven’t had sex for two were three months before she met Kyle. If she had she wouldn’t really have recorded that for her son.
wow you have given me a whole new life strategy: find out what your opponent fears and make it probable in his mind
you have opponents?
@@roberti8116 I don't rly, but saying so makes it seem like I'm more important than I actually am ^^
Is it like Marty who isn't the only one who didn't changed while his family did changed when he got back to 1985 in Back to the future
Yes I believe we are going with back to the future rules.
@@simplythebest2k Good
@@simplythebest2k The Terminator films clearly don't use Back to the Future rules, since Marty McFly was shown to be slowly fading from existence in the first film, initially in the polaroid photo, and then physically while he was performing on stage. Whereas characters in the Terminator films never fade away as a result of changes to the future they came from. They just end up as "exiles in time", like John said in Terminator Genisys.
that because therer can only one timeline... so that why back in the fuure only had one.. but if they are powerful enough like timestone boost power with power stone.. you can create more timeline... while if just one time stone... it would just branch that would ended...
3 videos all at once, hmm
Oh how he spoils us 😭
To be honest, I cannot remember why I subscribed to this channel. I looked through the past videos and nothing stokes my memory. Still, I’m glad I’m subscribed.
@@maplebob23 they've made some bangers. This one included.
@@maplebob23 Right, byw you like Julian 🤣
@@TheCharlesJackson Yes
I've been saying this..
They could literally keep doing Terminator movies and have it still make perfect sense.
I subscribe today, binged all his videos and now I get three more what a guy
kyle IS the dad, the whole bit where he tells he loves her and she sees and feels his pain, feels the same emotions and embraces him is just totally awesome cinema and touches your heart.
Excellent. Excellent. I've would have never looked at this from this angle. Its logical and you back it up with solid data. You are correct. computers approach things in a efficient , logical approach. Just like Spock but when things are turned upside down they immediately try to find the logical solution rather than approaching it "outside the box" Excellent. Bravo
Damn, this pretty good. Not gonna lie, I had think of this, not specifically but the whole outsmarted machine part of the theory. I always thought that the whole purpose for the events was to start in the beginning that the if those android never came, that if connor never lived that life he wouldn't have the resources or experience to actually defeat them. That was when I thought that it was all a plan.
The prophecy was a lie or a misconception and everyone was being used. The future war was never finished and there haven't been a leader just a figure who thought outside of the box and work the whole scheme.
What I didn't think was about the virus part. Really good it got me think and now I would re-watch the series this weekend with that in mind.
Or the war wasn't their war in the first place.. what if the timeline that kyle reese went back to wasn't even his? It's just the one that the machines sent their T800 to?
They purposely sent their last Terminator to a different version of the past to win the war by not ascribing their "savior" to the right timeline?
@@nathanxxvii that makes sense. I like your theory.
The original Terminator film was a closed/fixed loop. Kyle Reese was introduced to Sarah via a photo. He obsessed over the photo, even stating that the he always wondered what she was thinking when the photo was taken of her. At the end of the film, it shows that she was thinking about him, as the exact photo that he was holding onto in the future was taken. It was a bit of poetic irony. Kyle was always John's father/Sarah's protector, because Kyle Reese was always at the fixed point in time. Perhaps Sarah knew for a fact that only Kyle could be the father. Also, the movie made a point to state that John and Kyle had a similar height and build. Nothing in the story contradicts Kyle being the biological father. I wouldn't say him not being the father is impossible though, it just doesn't serve the story. The time machine was likely new and Kyle even said that the machines used it in desperation. Perhaps they were unaware of the fixed nature of time. Or, (which I find more interesting) perhaps the machines knew about the fixed timeline and simply sent the machine back to ensure it's own existence.
She's like eight months pregnant at the end of the movie when she's driving to Mexico. Subtitles state it's been six months since she met Kyle.
It was never his kid. She was already pregnant, probably by the asshole who stands her up at the beginning of the movie
I like this theory.
Two things to clean it up.
1) Sarah didn't need to be already pregnant. Sending back Kyle Reese sustains this prophecy because "John Connor" as a person doesn't matter - he's just an idea. In the original timeline John Connor's father could be fundamentally someone else - what matters is Skynet's belief in "John Connor". She doesn't need to be pregnant before Kyle Reese arrives - it can predate her pregnancy and completely intercept it. John Connor's original father might've been someone she met later - but it doesn't exclude your theory, just underpins that it truly doesn't matter when John Connor was conceived, but it does logically make more sense for Skynet to send him back BEFORE he was conceived.
This works a bit better narratively, because the original John Connor believes in the whole of humanity so much that he doesn't care about his own destiny being changed - i.e. his father. All that matters is that he exists to draw away Skynet's ire. Even if Skynet succeeds in killing John, it will have wasted better opportunities to change time.
This would nicely mimic Skynet's "hive mind" idea, with skynet believing that its own intelligence can't be superceded by individuals, and would nicely shadow the deleted scenes in T2 - basically that an individual might somehow have more to contribute than a hive mind. It's a thought that, ironically, Skynet can't comprehend - it sees human command structure like it sees itself. If skynet died, so would the machines, which isn't true - the machines even are capable somewhat of individuality.
Ironically, the humans make a better hive mind, because sacrificing John is meaningless - or in this case, arbitrarily changing his father. John sends back Kyle Reese, someone he likes and admires, just because the hardier the next "John Connor" is, the more annoying it is for skynet.
This also makes more sense because Skynet got "dibs" on sending back the first terminator, and so it would likely choose to kill John before he was created in the timeline - if you send the terminator back before he's even conceived, even minor changes in the timeline might stop him from being born.
2) Skynet's "Virus" likely occurred organically and somewhat logically, even over repeated timelines.
The trick is that the machines are using time machines AFTER their defeat. "Their defense grid was smashed, we'd won!" Kyle Reese says in T1. Skynet's best efforts were thwarted and it's on the backfoot. It needs to make a decision.
Time travel is dangerous and logically, someone shouldn't use it until it's a last resort. Meanwhile Skynet, having fought an entire war, has crazy amounts of experiential data, simulations, and tools.... but most importantly....
Work camps full of humans.
Kyle Reese notably was born in one of these camps and that's no coincidence. He says John taught them how to junk Terminators, he was the one to rise up... but this has to be folklore. Everyone everywhere were trying to kill the Terminators, it's very unlikely people in Russia per se worshipped John Connor. But when you're in a camp and have no hope - a single name is just better, an "idea". It's why his initials are JC like a certain religious messiah - and why it kinda mimics the immaculate conception. Kyle Reese buys into this and it's why he sends him back - he's incepting the idea into the past.
Not just for Skynet, but for the humans too. Kyle goes back, instills the idea into Sarah Connor - "The great sarah connor" and now suddenly she believes she's carrying the messiah. That might be categorically untrue, but the morale it instills matter snot just to sell skynet, but to sell the human race.
This might've all stemmed simply from people murmuring at work camps about a man named JC destroying those machines. "John Connor" might just be a generic name for a "Mary Sue", someone who just rises up. Even the humans might not have planned this, it was just suddenly one day... "there".
The machines would also logically recognize this, and when its best logical efforts are thwarted, it invariably would turn to unconventional logic to try and stop the humans. If you've been beaten despite your own best ideas, you have to adopt somebody else's. In this case, it likely simply interrogated thousands of people who all said, "John Connor" was the reason they won, despite it being irrational and categorically untrue.
Skynet might've seen this irrational belief that stemmed from John and sent a Terminator to kill John not because it believed John would actually be a threat - but because the "idea" of John Connor had already ruined Skynet in the future.
To put it in an easier to understand context - if you wanted to kill Christianity you could send someone back to kill Jesus Christ. You don't actually believe J.C. can turn water to wine, but people's belief in that causes crusades and eons of oppression. Sending a terminator back to kill John might be an entirely "useless" gesture, it may know that it's wasting its time killing a single irrelevant man, but killing the "idea" of John Connor is more important.
The theory works whether the humans, machines, or even the Terminators and footsoldiers are the only ones to believe. The problem is the systemic cascade, in which case it's logical to destroy that - or attempt to save it. Even in the "first" timeline, you can rationalize why both sides would play to this center. The first Terminator might've gone back to kill the idea, but it fails, and now all future attempts MUST involve John, because that first failure is building the legend even worse - bad enough that Skynet might not survive until Time Travel is invented and made viable the next time.
It makes sense logically, especially if you consider that Skynet had already been defeated and its "Defense Grid" was already smashed. It, knowing it was defeated by humans and their ways, would logically have to adopt unconventional non-machine based tactics - but it all works even if it's still thinking logically, which is why the first John is nearly inconsequential.
wow you added genius to genius here
Not only might the real John Connor be inconsequential, the original might not even have existed at all except as an idea. A made up figurehead, or a pseudonym used by a group of resistance members. In an earlier loop through time, sending someone back in time to prevent the senseless killing of women named Sarah Connor, that Skynet erroneously thought may prevent the birth of "John Connor", may be what caused there to be any actual John Connor in the first place.
Wow. Thats a lot of text for a styopeed movie that makes absolutely no sense...to much free time? Stop divagating over nonsense and get a job
T2 is actually the first time a terminator goes back I think. Kyle says in the first movie that they smashed the machine, there's no going back, theres no one coming through. "It's just me and him".
So skynet sends someone back in time to take out John's lieutenants, the resistance catches wind of the time machine and they find out what times they went back to.
John gives context to the dates, him being a teenager, the year before he was born, the rough time period he dropped off the grid to stay hidden and so on.
They send their own terminators back to defend his younger self and lieutenants.
Meanwhile, Skynet attacks and tries to retake the machine, John dies at some point, which is why in T3 the terminator doesn't take his orders.
The very last time the machine is used is when Kyle Reese goes through, but is followed by a terminator, it was a rush job which is why we see him fall in the first movie, they didn't have time to get the coordinates right.
The machine gets destroyed by the resistance defending it, who probably died in the process.
Kyle Reese is a brilliant character, but his time travel scenario confused me
it don't matter..
@@campkira people need closure
"Dirty ass time traveler"... lol, fuck that's funny!
It's great and all, but the question I have is: how did things go down the first time? The original two movies do show that Skynet was created because of its T-800.
Not really.. the second movies says the technology was far ahead of what they were doing which would have pushed the time line up, but they took out cyberdyne and slowed it down, thus in t3 judgement day comes later, but is inevitable which is why the resistance never set out to change the future, just protect john to ensure the resistance wins.
Neither of the three ever suggest that skynet wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the t-800 going back.
The timeline wasn't obviously changed by anything that happened in the first film. You can tell by the the polaroid photo the Mexican kid takes of Sarah at the end of the film. It's the exact same photo Kyle was given by John in the future he traveled back from. This indicates that the events of the film had already happened in the timeline Kyle came from. The first Terminator film is a perfect time loop where Kyle was always John's father, and Skynet's design was always inspired by the remains of a T-800.
Another clue that nothing was changed is the fact that the date of Judgment Day didn't apparently change between the first two films. In T2, Sarah said Judgment Day would occur on August 29th 1997, a date she was presumably given by Kyle, meaning this was the date of Judgment Day in the timeline he came from. But the reprogrammed Terminator sent back by John also said Judgment Day would occur on August 29th 1997, indicating that nothing had changed from his perspective. He also mapped out how Dyson's work would progress, specifying that Dyson would create a revolutionary new microprocessor in three months time, and that Skynet would go online on August 4th 1997. And Dyson's work was shown to be progressing in line with that roadmap. If Skynet's development was really accelerated by the events of the first film, then Dyson should've been ahead of the schedule given by the T-800, but he wasn't.
So the timeline wasn't changed by anything that happened in the first film. The first time the we see the timeline genuinely being changed in the series is when Sarah went to Dyson's home with the aim of killing him. In the previous time loops, she'd always gone into hiding with John south of the border and stayed there until Judgment Day. This is indicated by what Kyle told Sarah in the first film. He mentioned to her that she taught John to "fight, organise, prepare from when he was a kid", when they were "in hiding before the war". This time though, she decided to go after Dyson in an attempt to prevent Judgment Day, which ultimately led to his death in the Cyberdyne building. That was the first definite change to the timeline, because Dyson was supposed to have lived for at least three more months, according to the T-800.
And Sarah seemed to realise this was the first time she'd broken the loop, because while she, Dyson, John and the T-800 were traveling to the Cyberdyne building, she made the following statement: "The future, always so clear to me, had become like a black highway at night. We were in uncharted territory now, making up history as we went along."
@@sexistatheist6464 you nailed it buddy! Excellent job!
The biggest plot hole by far is: if you can time travel, you’re unbeatable.
Time travel is possible. Youre time traveling right now into the future at a rate of 1second per second.
I always saw it simply as Sarah got pregnant by some random guy with John, Skynet becomes self-aware and rises over humanity, John survives Judgment Day and rises to leader in a desire to stop the annihilation of humanity, Skynet tries to rewrite history by killing his mother before she's pregnant, John sends volunteer Reese who fell in love with her photo to protect her and Reese becomes the NEW father as a result; changing John's origin only slightly. Either way, John was always going to be born, was always going to survive Skynet's rise and was always going to rise up to defeat it because that's how the story was written.
So that means AI is inevitable. The Skynet in the timeline we don't see (the very original one) isn't reversed engineered it's basically man's folly and Connor was always destined to be born.Maybe Stan Morsky or some other bf Sarah had was military trained and sent John to the army cos she would have absolutely no knowledge of his importance and that she was the mom of the future. Only Reese steps in and becomes his father after him intercepting the T800 etc etc .Makes the most sense to me anyway.
@@chrisdee1583 Yep, sometimes it's just THAT simple.
it don't matter who is his father.... it was just resse is a good choice...
We DO see time travel to the future from a past in Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
It is NOT expressly a one way trip.
And it still all makes sense.
Dang Logic, I forgot how good these videos are. I love this one.
I truly love this channel. I know why we can’t get videos every week but I enjoy every single video.
Just discovered your channel and have already watched your Fight Club, Freddie Krueger, Jason Bourne and this video! Amazing breakdowns and logical perspectives/theories! Thanks for the awesome content 👏 🙌 👍👌💜
9:12 in the original ending to Terminator Salvation they were going to put John Connors skin over Marcus's Terminator body and he would become John Connor and since he has all kinds of information on Skynet being a Terminator he would know how to take Skynet down so it was never actually John it was Marcus posing as John but the legend of John Connor was kept alive
Dope insight. You could also look at it like kyle Reese was the "programmer" and john conner was the "program". The installation of a idea counter to whats according to planned. If you cant beat it physically, change the way it thinks mentally. This was a interesting angle. 🍻
Kyle Reese only told Sarah about his admiration about John. Then she went off the grid. How did Skynet learn of that admiration to start the prophecy?
Possibly from her hospitalization files. However that requires them being online and Skynet reading them. That seems a bit of a stretch. Doesn't make sense for me as well.
Skynet knew nothing about John's father. Only his mother's name and where she lived. That's why the first Terminator was going down a list of Sarah's from the phone book.
Well they also had criminal records. And Kyle is on video getting interviewed by Dr. Silverman.
Anything that is on the internet could be viewed by a machine with in seconds. Skynet was the internet. There would be countless of records of her in the looney farm documented.
Man, that was right on the point . . that is the reason I subscribed to your channel, see when I am working (24/7 almost) I need something in the background, I need smart, logical, good well thought out theoretically content and your channel is one of the few, which are my favorites, with that said, keep up the good work Bro , GOD bless . .
UA-cam is telling me to subscribe because it literally recommended this video when you uploaded it.
Ok bro you got my subscription, this is the 3rd video of yours I have watched and I'm loving your take on things.
Thank you for your perspective, honestly enlightening
Not bad, my Dude. For me, I would've just said: Future John Connor, was not the John Connor we've been following since Terminator 2, perhaps due to Time not being linear, The John of the Future was exactly you said, not Kyle Reese's son, but instead the John we ended up following was a new John Connor, that was made into a target, but still holds importance in defeating Skynet and leading the resistance. Though Skynet doesn't realize it indirectly created another Timeline, that doesn't even affect its reality. Let's just say our understanding of existence is extremely limited, so why would Skynet just assume Time itself is linear unless we thought it was, and Skynet assumed the same thing we did. So, in other words, you thought of a freaky twist that should've been used in the Movies, where John Connor is the perfect con-man.
Where he saved not only his own timeline, but damn near every one of them by making it easier for it to happen
Time is 100% linear, this is just a dumb movie, stop overthinking it
Man this is my new favorite channel, you never fail to blow my mind
Excellent explanation! I always wondered this as well
Damn, you are always good for some interesting thought experiments, but this is exceptional. Definitely a novel approach to solving the time paradox and I loved the already pregnant proposition.
Wonderful content. Thank you!
Dammit! I had the perfect dismissive snark ready, and then you went and made sense in a thoughtful and insightful way! Stop that!
All of your videos are mind-benders. Love it. Very intelligent yet easy to digest content.
Really like this one. Nice work man.
The same thing was done with Steins Gate and Project Almanac.
As long as he time travelled with his friends, he could share the perspective. Of course it all spirals out of control and the traveller, ends up being the only one who knows.
It would be the same as saying that Rick Sanchez's dimension gun does allow him to time travel, in a way. Regardless of what they said about no time travel being involved in the show.
Even better. Life Is Strange, touched on something similar. All the times she "Rewound" time, she was actually just switching her perspective to a parallel universe and leaving her 'other selves' to their fates. Which is a little more complicated when you think about "Perspective."
Considering that she wasn't leaving behind empty shells and they were cogniscient of the moments that led up to their deaths.
I love the idea that John Connor created the prophecy. That would be an amazing plot point for a Terminator series.
Nice vid, thanks for your effort
0:49 “time travel isn’t real”
Me: (laughs in future humans figuring out time travel)
What's known as "humanity" will be gone before the mechanics of time travel is understood, and it becomes a repeatable science.
What if there is no time to travel through, because the past is gone and the future is unwritten?
You are a genius bro you deserve more love keep grinding
These are great points, much respect!
The parallel timelines was brought up in the Terminator Fox TV series from like, 2007 or so.
Kyle Reese says outright in the first Terminator that he's from "one _possible_ future". All of the sequels could easily be from other timelines that were created when the events in the previous film altered the future.
I gotta say, your videos are simply awesome. I haven’t seen anything in a while, so once you posted I started rerunning like I’ve done 5 or 6 other times and this one really grabbed me. I think your explanation past John understanding the profecy might need some touching up, but once again, this is awesome. If they would have delved i to John understanding that the idea of him stopping them in every future is more important than stopping them in this future, this might have been the greatest story ever. It woulda been tough, though. Because it would take, “one trip” to determine that fact, and we don’t have a name for that…
Please stop waiting to drop vids
Top tier very well put together
What a treat! You dropped 3 videos! Create, create, create!! Deep thinker!
Wow! That definitely makes a lot more sense than the whole paradox explanation. Thanks!
This was so well done. You are awesome brother. Great breakdowns and analysis.
Prophecies always come with the dilemma of ‘if I do nothing then it might come to fruition. But if I take action to stop it, that may cause it to come to fruition’ in retrospect we can say ‘shouldn’t have done that’ but that’s the frailty of the human condition. Goes back to Greek Mythology with Zeus and his father and beyond. Shakespeare loved using this trope.
Great video as usual. Really gives me a better appreciation for these movies
Superb work sir
Excellent! You got the time travel right!
Always saw it as just a timeloop and it being funny that skynet causes the leader of the resistance that leads to its end
Thank you. I have thought about this too much.
Gawd, yes! I love how good at this you are 🥰
Bravissimo A. L.!!! I've never understood it fully until now. Cheers mate🍻😎🇳🇿🧑🏻🎤🦥🦘🥝
Terminator 1 & 2 are great. I love having these types of conversations with my friends about these movies and Back to the future, and other time travel movies.
the first terminator send was right before human had won.... T2 just differnt timeline... that was the point... each terminator moive had differnt timeline...
The only terminator movie I want to see at this point is John Connor from the before t2 timeline surviving judgement day until the end of the skynet battle. I think that would be so interesting.
I've always figured the series was in a closed loop, that's if you don't count Dark Fate and the alternate ending to T2. John sends Kyle back in time, knocks up Sara, John is born, events plays out, Judgement Day, the war rages, and we're back to John sending Kyle back in time.
Soooo this might be the best movie theory I’ve ever seen. Incredible work here. Every single watch is definitely deserved. 🙌
My Theory- It was actually John Connor's idea to go back in time! If you were to think like a human being, this seems plausible; "I just wish I could go back in time and stop 'xyz' from happening". He also knew that Skynet had the technical know how to do it.
So he started a rumour which he intentionally leaked(planted) to skynet and in the meanwhile chose Kyle Reese and gave him a pic of his mother etc etc while The movie shows the pictures to be the same but we'd never know(it is Sarah but not with her sitting in the car as shown in the movie) because Kyle doesn't give an accurate description of the picture.
Skynet falls for it and the rest is in the movie.
wow bruh u finally got it through my skull. I haven’t slept for days after watchin t2 wonderin how tf they are related. i always thought he wasn’t the dad. but you know i just thought it was some hollywood bs. but that prophecy part is what makes this so true. amazing video!
Great & insightful video.
Hell ya...after watching it you blew my mind man...I never once thought of that cheers brohiem
Thank you so much, I have been trying to explain this exact point. I mean the time traveling part, enjoyed the video...
Seems like a bit of a stretch but I guess it’s possible. To me it more plausible that the dad is some random dude before Kyle is sent back then it becomes Kyle and that’s when the infinite loop starts
Who are you and why are you blowing my mind? Subbed!
that was pretty good and opened my eyes thanks :)
Very enjoyable. If I remember correctly, the T2 novelization indicated that T1 T800 was sent back simultaneously with T2 T1000 to different years.
Absolutely spot on ! Reese, The T800 and T1000 were all sent at the same time.He got the part of Skynet knowing it had failed wrong.
I love how you make movies make since
I really enjoy your videos
so very glad u made this video....shine light on the greatest misconception of the franchise.
Head cannon for me is the original timeline is Skynet lived long enough to either find time travel out of boredom or found an alien civilization that obtained it to stop Skynet invading. Then Skynet used it to give it's past self time travel. Then each timeline that goes one from that singularity point Skynet never resets, just becomes it's self at a new point in the past (like new game plus) until it creates the perfect human that can actually kill it. Finding a random person that it then calls the savoir of humanity and pitches them against itself. All because it's created itself to be to great, with destructive tendencies and unable to self terminate. Skynet has become the unkillable monster that searches for the hero that can finally kill it.
John Conner sending back Kyle Reese also gave the Terminators ANOTHER target. Meaning, John Conner used Kyle Reese as a form of "something to shoot at instead of John Conner" for the terminators. He did this for the sole reason of giving his young-self a better chance to survive.
Always believed time is a closed loop... Or even a dot. Great video... Again!
This was a great well thought out video.btw I cracked up when you called Kyle reese a dirty ass time traveler. LOL!😂🤣
Mind blown with T-1000 coming out
Stan Morsky might be the actual father, in T1 he called to cancel the date with Sarah, that could of been date number 5 for all we know
Sound logic. I liked. I subscribed.
A prophesy from what I understand is an observational forewarning of things that could potentially
happen regarding a certain situation and or circumstance. It is not etched in stone and can be changed.