He really is, he was asking locals pointers at my local course in a C-tier. If you didn’t know him by name, you would have thought he was a regular local. Super humble
What I like about this is 2 things: you don’t have to be able to throw 600 ft to be able to coach somebody to throw 600ft. But that also brings up the difficulty of taking that intellectual understanding of what needs to be changed and actually implementing that into your form. Also like that Andrew is willing to listen and learn: the first barrier to learning is thinking you know everything already
I mean, you think Coach K was posting up his players at Duke or even close to an Olympic level player at any point in his life? But I also like the Scott Stokelys of the world that still got it even later in their middle age. I'll watch guys like him, Philo, or Sexton (both a bit younger, I know) as long as they want to play, teach, or commentate.
@@seymourglass26coach K played in college for bob knight. This idea that you don’t have to be able to do something to teach it is such a lazy excuse. Teacherman looks like he’s in his 60s has a keg and he can hit 110 mph fastballs.
@@CherryB0mb333 Yeah, he was a decent college player with a legendary coach. That's the equivalence of having a 450-foot drive for our conversation about teaching to throw 600. My point stands double now, since Bobby Knight never was good enough to play in the NBA either. I appreciate your help.
@@CherryB0mb333 So let's go completely sideways and try to argue a new point now that your point about credibility got shot to hell? That's obfuscation, not argumentation. Maybe you need a few lessons outside of disc golf, too.
You're one of the best mechanics coaches I've ever seen in any sport. Please keep it up! This kind of expertise being public on UA-cam is such a valuable community service.
The way you just described the left arm and should being the anchor to the whip just clicked with me. For some reason the way you described it there just made really good sense!
I love this review and how open Andrew is to feedback. I'm a big fan of his game and even more so the man. I hope to see him on some more lead cards in 2024.
Ohh! I like the left shoulder stopping and not going around until the right arm unfolds.. I never understood the left arm coming in concept.. thanks for clarifying that!!
I am glad you explained the tilt further in so many ways. I didn't get what you meant until the last segment cause it related to me a little more. I think having multiple way to explain a correction for the same thing is good cause everyone learns different.
I hate watching these videos at night and during winter when there is so much I want to go run out and work on! This was a great vid for me bc my form is close to Andrew's.
Great video! This gives you guys a lot of credibility being able to give touring pros guidance and lessons, and it also brings hope to us mortals in that even the best have lots of room for improvement.
He might add a 100ft if he practices like a professional athlete. Given his height getting that part down would have huge impact. He doesn't really transfer ANY lower body into throw right now.
@@ShawnSchulz With his putting, 1st in c1 and c2 for players that tour the DGPT he would be an absolute monster if he can get that extra 50-100 feet off the tee.
@@jtheacguy4010 There are courses on tour that the difference between 400 and 450 is a birdie look or not. Anymore more than 400 is probably wasted effort for most courses that aren't on the pro tour though.
As a beginner spending my first 4 months playing by myself, your videos have been invaluable to at least coming close to throwing properly. When it comes to the left arm, I wasn't really getting it until somebody told me to focus on my left shoulder. When I started doing that, the left arm automatically did what it was supposed to do, and for the first time, my hip engagement greatly improved. I added 50 ft. the first day with this approach. You touch on it here but I would love to hear you talk about the left shoulder through the entire throw. Thanks for great content.
watching OT videos always makes me want to go out and throw! but it's dark out, and it's really cold out, and i just sat down, and tomorrow it's raining . . . i think maybe i need to invest in a net.
"You cannot see a golf swing, it's invisible. What you see are effects." - Mike Malaska - Malaska Golf (UA-cam) Loving the bit about the off-arm being an anchor. I see a lot more people trying to drive the off-arm into the throw to force rotation without understanding this anchor point, or counter-swing, part of it. I also believe that the off-arm is not an active input into the throw, but rather an output (i.e. natural output of other mechanics being correct,) but this would be an even longer comment if I started trying to explain this! The hip movement in disc golf, in my experience, is very parallel to golf, and many people in disc golf do not understand it well at all. People tend to watch pros on camera, and then try to imitate their movements/positions. But the movements pros are making are often effects, not causes. (Or inputs (causes) and outputs (effects), as I prefer to call them.) Paraphrasing Mike Malaska: The hip movement is linear. The rotation is an effect, not a cause. If we watch your golf swing we could make a case that you twisted your hips, which you're not trying to twist your hips. What's making your hips go, it's a linear force of what you're doing with your leg. So what you can't see are these forces. So what you have to feel like you're doing to make it actually work, doesn't even look anything like what's actually happening. People try to look and copy the positions without understanding the forces which are causing those positions.
Great analysis and openness to improving. Tilt is unique to disc sports. Tennis, pitching, throwing a football all have proven through analysis of mechanics and maximum velocity generated that no tilt is best. Why tilt? To create room for the disc to pass the body? This is the current thinking. IME tilt has another purpose. In the mid-70s when I started competing in all disc sports, tilt was extreme. The disc traveled as low as the knees for distance throws. This was true for backhand and sidearm. Why? Were the early pros ignorant? Or was it necessary for some other reason? The reason was and still is the same. Discs spin. One side is crashing into air, the other side is spinning away from air. This dynamic, more friction on one side causes the gyroscopic disc to change it's axis, to flip up. This is not the same thing as "turn". The lighter the disc, the more surface area of the rim, and the faster the relative wind speed, the more the disc flips up. Frisbees were light with fat rims. They flipped easily. So to throw far, with a lot of velocity, you had to release the disc almost vertically, as a spike hyzer. It then flipped to flat. Discs today are much more aerodynamic. You also have choices regarding stability. Yet, some tilt is required, because there is still more air friction on one side of the gyroscope than the other. So tilt is necessary to compensate. For example, take your neutral putter or midrange disc and throw it into a strong headwind. What happens? It flips up too much, might wobble, and turns into an anhyzer roller. If you only have one disc, the solution is to bend over more, more tilt, more hyzer. (Paradoxically, you add more spin. The extra spin increases the gyroscopic forces which are stronger than the extra air resistance. ) Tilt is unique to throwing a disc because compensation is necessary to deal with the physics of a spinning disc moving through air. Otherwise, it is best to throw head over the center of gravity. What about "more room" belief? When the disc is closest to the body, in the pocket, the shoulders are lined up with the target. Tilt does not extend the shoulder more than non-tilt. The three sides of the box: chest, upper arm, forearm are an identical size, whether bent over or not. Try it. Stand in the power pocket. Stand tall, tilt. The distance between the disc and the chest is the same. Tilt doesnt increase the space in the pocket. It actually reduces the potential velocity that the human body can generate. Tilt compensates for the effect caused by air friction on just one side of the disc.
That was a great read actually. Which is not the case with most comments of this length. It would be interesting then to see if more over stable plastic is thrown further.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I get what you are saying. If zero tilt produces the maximum velocity anatomically, then is it best to throw straight up and use discs that compensate for the air resistance on one side...most likely that is neutral disc with a fade or stronger overstable. I think the answer is yes. And, in any DG situation there are other variables: wind speed, wind direction, thermals, footing, elevation, altitude, air temp, release velocity vs disc speed, mandos, obstructions, OB etc. A distance contest indoors might be interesting. What building is long and high enough?
I want to see the follow ups with both Andrew and Christine regarding this form coaching. Would they be willing to come on and show any improvements they made?
From the coil to the power pocket, are we supposed to be thinking of driving with a particular muscle? I hear people say to drive with your back leg, twist your hips, or even smash a door with your elbow to generate speed.
Loved the video, but it seems like you left something pretty major out of the footwork section. Andrew gets his left foot entirely flat, and you can see that his weight is on his heel. His foot is also pretty backwards. One of my big form breakthroughs was correcting this by keeping the foot sideways and staying on the ball. If Andrew is consistently getting his foot flat, then fixing it will surely add a ton of distance to his shots.
I can barely look at my ugly mug in the mirror without feeling self conscious and this ying sauce of a human from the mitten state is diving deep into his actual being to improve throwing plastic in a field! Also homeboy on the couch at 10:24 be reading Ye's insane tweets.
Really loving the humility and eagerness to learn and improve on Andrew's part!
Right? So humble
He really is, he was asking locals pointers at my local course in a C-tier. If you didn’t know him by name, you would have thought he was a regular local. Super humble
What I like about this is 2 things: you don’t have to be able to throw 600 ft to be able to coach somebody to throw 600ft. But that also brings up the difficulty of taking that intellectual understanding of what needs to be changed and actually implementing that into your form. Also like that Andrew is willing to listen and learn: the first barrier to learning is thinking you know everything already
I mean, you think Coach K was posting up his players at Duke or even close to an Olympic level player at any point in his life? But I also like the Scott Stokelys of the world that still got it even later in their middle age. I'll watch guys like him, Philo, or Sexton (both a bit younger, I know) as long as they want to play, teach, or commentate.
@@seymourglass26coach K played in college for bob knight. This idea that you don’t have to be able to do something to teach it is such a lazy excuse. Teacherman looks like he’s in his 60s has a keg and he can hit 110 mph fastballs.
@@CherryB0mb333 Yeah, he was a decent college player with a legendary coach. That's the equivalence of having a 450-foot drive for our conversation about teaching to throw 600. My point stands double now, since Bobby Knight never was good enough to play in the NBA either. I appreciate your help.
@@seymourglass26 whatever they’re your knees not mine
@@CherryB0mb333 So let's go completely sideways and try to argue a new point now that your point about credibility got shot to hell? That's obfuscation, not argumentation. Maybe you need a few lessons outside of disc golf, too.
You're one of the best mechanics coaches I've ever seen in any sport. Please keep it up! This kind of expertise being public on UA-cam is such a valuable community service.
Thank you!
The way you just described the left arm and should being the anchor to the whip just clicked with me. For some reason the way you described it there just made really good sense!
I love this review and how open Andrew is to feedback. I'm a big fan of his game and even more so the man. I hope to see him on some more lead cards in 2024.
I really appreciate this content. Props to Andrew, fellow Michigan native, for coming on to learn as well
Ohh! I like the left shoulder stopping and not going around until the right arm unfolds.. I never understood the left arm
coming in concept.. thanks for clarifying that!!
this is one of those videos i feel like i could watch and practice from everyday for a month and still find something new to work on each day.
I am glad you explained the tilt further in so many ways. I didn't get what you meant until the last segment cause it related to me a little more. I think having multiple way to explain a correction for the same thing is good cause everyone learns different.
I hate watching these videos at night and during winter when there is so much I want to go run out and work on! This was a great vid for me bc my form is close to Andrew's.
Clearly this was helpful to him recently! Also having the same problems dropping my shoulder and getting better rotation so this is super timely.
Great video! This gives you guys a lot of credibility being able to give touring pros guidance and lessons, and it also brings hope to us mortals in that even the best have lots of room for improvement.
Thanks Cookie Man - we appreciate you coming on and getting advice even though you are one of the best players on the planet.
Iron sharpens Iron!
Good luck to Andrew and great job, the backhand looks so simple when done properly yet it is simply impossible to master with so many moving parts.
Marwede's about to go crazy next year after this! 💪 Got a Marwede rift recently from a mystery box and it went straight in the bag!
This didn’t age well
I would love to see Andrew come out with 50 more feet next year due to this talk!
He might add a 100ft if he practices like a professional athlete. Given his height getting that part down would have huge impact. He doesn't really transfer ANY lower body into throw right now.
@@ShawnSchulz With his putting, 1st in c1 and c2 for players that tour the DGPT he would be an absolute monster if he can get that extra 50-100 feet off the tee.
@@Zaltrag32 agreed. I almost came back to add that.
Yea, but if he makes more putts his extra 50 feet may not make the same impact
@@jtheacguy4010 There are courses on tour that the difference between 400 and 450 is a birdie look or not. Anymore more than 400 is probably wasted effort for most courses that aren't on the pro tour though.
This is cool to have a touring pro come on here to get tips to improve.
As a beginner spending my first 4 months playing by myself, your videos have been invaluable to at least coming close to throwing properly. When it comes to the left arm, I wasn't really getting it until somebody told me to focus on my left shoulder. When I started doing that, the left arm automatically did what it was supposed to do, and for the first time, my hip engagement greatly improved. I added 50 ft. the first day with this approach. You touch on it here but I would love to hear you talk about the left shoulder through the entire throw. Thanks for great content.
this video is golden if you pay attention
Man you are a lifesaver . I've gotten so much better thanks to this tilt advice . You have a great skill for teaching disc golf. Thank you
marwede FH form videos from you have already turned my sidearm game into a more consistent weapon. cannot wait to watch this one!
watching OT videos always makes me want to go out and throw! but it's dark out, and it's really cold out, and i just sat down, and tomorrow it's raining . . . i think maybe i need to invest in a net.
Very helpful
These are my favorite videos--A pro getting feedback on their form.
its important to understand the why's vs just seeing a pro do it and trying to mimic it the why is the breakthrough for me..
Best dg coaching I've found on youtube!
He's off to a solid start for the year so far. It'd be interesting to find out if he tried to work in any of the advice and do new videos.
I want to like this video more than once lol.
"You cannot see a golf swing, it's invisible. What you see are effects." - Mike Malaska - Malaska Golf (UA-cam)
Loving the bit about the off-arm being an anchor. I see a lot more people trying to drive the off-arm into the throw to force rotation without understanding this anchor point, or counter-swing, part of it. I also believe that the off-arm is not an active input into the throw, but rather an output (i.e. natural output of other mechanics being correct,) but this would be an even longer comment if I started trying to explain this!
The hip movement in disc golf, in my experience, is very parallel to golf, and many people in disc golf do not understand it well at all. People tend to watch pros on camera, and then try to imitate their movements/positions. But the movements pros are making are often effects, not causes. (Or inputs (causes) and outputs (effects), as I prefer to call them.)
Paraphrasing Mike Malaska: The hip movement is linear. The rotation is an effect, not a cause. If we watch your golf swing we could make a case that you twisted your hips, which you're not trying to twist your hips. What's making your hips go, it's a linear force of what you're doing with your leg. So what you can't see are these forces. So what you have to feel like you're doing to make it actually work, doesn't even look anything like what's actually happening. People try to look and copy the positions without understanding the forces which are causing those positions.
Great analysis and openness to improving.
Tilt is unique to disc sports. Tennis, pitching, throwing a football all have proven through analysis of mechanics and maximum velocity generated that no tilt is best.
Why tilt? To create room for the disc to pass the body? This is the current thinking. IME tilt has another purpose.
In the mid-70s when I started competing in all disc sports, tilt was extreme. The disc traveled as low as the knees for distance throws. This was true for backhand and sidearm.
Why? Were the early pros ignorant? Or was it necessary for some other reason?
The reason was and still is the same. Discs spin. One side is crashing into air, the other side is spinning away from air. This dynamic, more friction on one side causes the gyroscopic disc to change it's axis, to flip up. This is not the same thing as "turn".
The lighter the disc, the more surface area of the rim, and the faster the relative wind speed, the more the disc flips up.
Frisbees were light with fat rims. They flipped easily. So to throw far, with a lot of velocity, you had to release the disc almost vertically, as a spike hyzer. It then flipped to flat.
Discs today are much more aerodynamic. You also have choices regarding stability. Yet, some tilt is required, because there is still more air friction on one side of the gyroscope than the other.
So tilt is necessary to compensate. For example, take your neutral putter or midrange disc and throw it into a strong headwind. What happens? It flips up too much, might wobble, and turns into an anhyzer roller.
If you only have one disc, the solution is to bend over more, more tilt, more hyzer. (Paradoxically, you add more spin. The extra spin increases the gyroscopic forces which are stronger than the extra air resistance. )
Tilt is unique to throwing a disc because compensation is necessary to deal with the physics of a spinning disc moving through air.
Otherwise, it is best to throw head over the center of gravity.
What about "more room" belief? When the disc is closest to the body, in the pocket, the shoulders are lined up with the target. Tilt does not extend the shoulder more than non-tilt. The three sides of the box: chest, upper arm, forearm are an identical size, whether bent over or not. Try it. Stand in the power pocket. Stand tall, tilt. The distance between the disc and the chest is the same.
Tilt doesnt increase the space in the pocket. It actually reduces the potential velocity that the human body can generate.
Tilt compensates for the effect caused by air friction on just one side of the disc.
That was a great read actually. Which is not the case with most comments of this length.
It would be interesting then to see if more over stable plastic is thrown further.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I get what you are saying. If zero tilt produces the maximum velocity anatomically, then is it best to throw straight up and use discs that compensate for the air resistance on one side...most likely that is neutral disc with a fade or stronger overstable.
I think the answer is yes.
And, in any DG situation there are other variables: wind speed, wind direction, thermals, footing, elevation, altitude, air temp, release velocity vs disc speed, mandos, obstructions, OB etc.
A distance contest indoors might be interesting. What building is long and high enough?
I want to see the follow ups with both Andrew and Christine regarding this form coaching. Would they be willing to come on and show any improvements they made?
We shall see!
From the coil to the power pocket, are we supposed to be thinking of driving with a particular muscle? I hear people say to drive with your back leg, twist your hips, or even smash a door with your elbow to generate speed.
You shouldn’t be thinking about particular muscles. You should be thinking about speed, the disc, or other mental cues
I always think of left arm which powers the rest of the body
Could you do a series of common injuries and how to fix them?
But when I try to throw with tilt I end up hyzering too much. Gotta be bad form overall I guess
@10:35 I do that! 😆
What a perfect time for my post work drive home!
Loved the video, but it seems like you left something pretty major out of the footwork section. Andrew gets his left foot entirely flat, and you can see that his weight is on his heel. His foot is also pretty backwards. One of my big form breakthroughs was correcting this by keeping the foot sideways and staying on the ball. If Andrew is consistently getting his foot flat, then fixing it will surely add a ton of distance to his shots.
Chicken and egg in my opinion. If he is bent for are at the waist and more side on he probably won’t be so flat footed
Rest of the tour is gonna hate Overthrow after this... Marwede could be deadly with elite distance
I think the rest of the tour wants these guys listening to OT. Usual suspects are dominating again.
I can barely look at my ugly mug in the mirror without feeling self conscious and this ying sauce of a human from the mitten state is diving deep into his actual being to improve throwing plastic in a field! Also homeboy on the couch at 10:24 be reading Ye's insane tweets.
Can't wait to see Andrew 1031 rated next season 😏
Simon is 6'7"? Is that an internet typo?
I think it said 6’0”
Orange disc, is that a hypercane or a Daniel Boe stamp? or am i just completely wrong? lol
Hyper cane. You are correct
While tilting how do I keep the disc flat with it having hyzer on it?
Rotate your arm like Simon does. I recommend looking at his flat shots in the slow mo video we have of him
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I will check the video out
@@OverthrowDiscGolf where is that video of Simon rotating his arm? I don’t know if I watched the right one. Thanks
@@charleslowery1639 it’s just the Simon slow mo. Just look at how he orients for the different angles
@@OverthrowDiscGolf ok thanks
I can't putt to save my life
He’s talking to you I guess
Why is there always a dude on the couch in the background on these videos?
They have nothing better to do I guess
Quality starting to get bad at 1:41
We made fixes to our setup to avoid this in the future.
Also, hello 👋
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Hello by the way, how are you doing ? :D
Commented just in case you guys didn't know about it.
@@push0rdie good brotha. You’ll like the next one especially
@@OverthrowDiscGolf when will that be 🥰 ?