One of my cousins refused to read Vector Prime or any of its sequels because she found out Chewbacca died. It's ironic Chewie is the only one of the core OT cast that's still alive in canon aside from droids.
There's a very good reason to keep him alive over the human cast: He can be played by any tall dude in a furry suit. He will be appearing in movies and TV for decades to come.
Well with the story the way it is he's the only one that still has a place in the galaxy and I really hope that Disney gives him the place he should have as the leader or at least ambassador of his people.
It would’ve been interesting and funny to see the immense Vong army and the mother ship while a high ranking imperial officer asks Luke. “Do you know what would be useful right now?” Luke *bilwidered* Imperial officer “A Death Star”
That would have required the New Republic to betray its values. The New Republic considered developing biological and genetic weapons to fight the Vong, but came to conclusion that if they did so, they would be tacitly admitting they were really no better than the Empire.
@@terrylong8894 I get that, but being nice about war to an enemy that won’t to you gets your own people annihilated and that’s what almost happened. The Vong were Ruthless. Whether they were blown up on a ship from a super weapon, got stabbed by a lightsaber or shot with a blaster bolt has the same outcome and an instant death seems more humane if that’s what they were going for.
“I can't help but wonder how the old Empire would have handled the crisis. I hope you will forgive my partisan attitude but it seems to me that the Emperor would have mobilized his entire armament at the first threat and dealt with the Yuuzhan Vong in an efficient and expeditious manner through the use of overwhelming force. Certainly better than Borsk Fey'lya's policy if I understood it correctly as a policy of negotiating with the invaders at the same time as he was fighting them sending signals of weakness to a ruthless enemy who used negotiation only as a cover for further conquests." "That's not what the Empire would have done Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors or some other mistake and a hotshot enemy pilot would have dropped a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."
You don’t really need a “can’t be touched by the force” enemy, because conventional enemies already have that sort of plot armour 99% of the time when they fight Jedi and somehow the Jedi only fight by swinging around their lightsaber and forget that they have telekinesis, mind tricks, and so on. Looking at how Force Push works in the shows and movies you would think it has like a one-hour cooldown or something.
No need for a well thought out gimmick when bad writing will suffice and it becomes a competition between incompetent villains and idiot heroes to see which one is slightly less self defeating at the moment... which has been pretty much the entirety of DisCan so far
@@cyberpup2246However, the EU was a flexible area of potential where good stories from it could be brought in. Meanwhile disney’s cannon immediately discredits most of the possibilities outright relegating anything not under their control to fan fiction.
@@cyberpup2246 I’ll definitely agree not allot of the EU works well, but it has its moments and characters. Like I said before, I’d missed the freedom, and some of the better defined rules for things like hyperspace. I must agree the stories you mentioned, even under Disney’s cannon, were ones that worked well.
@@cyberpup2246 the difference though is that DisCan had forty years of material to see what worked and what didn't by what came before. DisCan also had access to a much larger budget and resources than the EU. Finally, DisCan had complete creative freedom to do anything...and they still turned in inferior product.
Lmao, yeah that's true. The force is used so often in the EU in many instances, yet still the Jedi aren't invincible. Canon shouldn't have any problems tbh
Vong were controversial for a lot of reasons. One more important one was there were so many authors who all got a crack at a novel that some of the rules of how they worked got bent. Some books were really good, others were really bad and the constant struggle against the vong organic stuff felt...lacking compared to X-wing vs TiE type crunch. In the end, I think the series was good and interesting, but I doubt we ever see Disney touch them.
I full agree. I read them all but I am not sure if I enjoyed even half of them. And the constant loosing of "our" heroes did not make it better. For me, the turning point was the novel about Jacen on former Coruscant. I enjoyed that one and the aspect of a new force perspective but the most other books of the series were rather exhausting and sometimes even annoying. And I think LucasArts knew that people don't really enjoy the Vong and ended the series rather quickly in the end.
Aside for the wildly inconsistent quality of the writing between the books, my main problem was that it was too depressing. If I remember right, Star by Star (which I think was one of the better books in the series) that detailed the fall of Coruscant was released on the heals of 9/11. Overall though, I enjoyed the new direction for the post OT era.
I started out NJO as a Vong hater, but I've turned around on them. The Vong invasion was a really good way to upset the status quo within the galaxy, and the later stuff when they're dealing with the aftermath and all the Vongformed planets was really interesting. The concept of a whole species cut off from the Force was always kinda wack, but I liked how it evened the playing field between the Jedi and their enemies without it being just another invasion of dark side force users.
Agreed. I wasn't a fan of the idea of the Vong but once I read the series I was blown away by how fleshed (no pun intended) out they were as antagonists. The whole series was very well written, very dark, very morally grey, not for kids
I remember how popular the NJO was when it first came out. It broke away from the "jedi vs sith" narrative that star wars had been up to that point and i think that combined with the dark sadistic nature of the vong is why disney will never pick it up, but it's one of my favorite star series ever.
I'd like to point out that the vong weren't really outside the force. both Anakin and Jacen were able to learn to use "Vongsense" to differing degrees, essentially attuning to the different frequency of the force the vong were using, one which was much much weaker.
Just make them similar to the Orks from the Lord of the Rings with some elements from the Covenant in Halo. Just because you have a disturbing faction does not mean that the films have to have an R rating.
@@Tuskin38 Most of the Legends content was made under license, not in-house like Disney Canon stuff is. Disney/Lucasfilm still technically owns the rights to it, but that doesn't change the fact that someone else came up with it. So it wouldn't be theft in a _legal_ sense, but it would in an _ethical_ sense. But then again Disney's been caught red-handed directly ripping fan-made designs and even stuff made by other companies for other settings _cough40kTauandEldarvehiclesinmarvelcomicscough,_ so I'm surprised they _haven't_ done that yet.
I was a huge fan of the New Jedi Order book series. With the death of Chewbacca at the end of the first book it really set the tone of how the good guys aren't always going to win. I read every book on the edge of my seat cause the good guys were getting their butts kicked every step of the way. It was a bit more on the "horror" side of stories so maybe live action isn't the way to go for that story line.
Disney will never "canon-ize" the Vong for the same reason they won't let Thrawn have his ysalamiri -- the Force just *has* to be the be-all and end-all of everything in their AU -- can't have anything that brings the Jedi and/or Sith down a notch. It's a real shame, because the Vong were far more interesting antagonists than simply using the Empire yet again, especially when it no longer made sense to do so.
I honestly don’t understand why anyone would be surprised - at this point - that Disney doesn’t care about any of the pre-existing EU lore. They don’t even care about their own canon lore.
I liked the concept of an extra-galactic invader that was outside the realm of the force but don't like the Vong in general, they're like a weird hybrid of the Tyranids and Dark Eldar from 40k.
That's my opinion too. My favorite thing from that entire story is how drastically they changed the galaxy, which is something Disney hasn't been willing to do.
I agree with Eck that it’s more likely that we see an analogue to the vong, but what that could be remains to be seen and there’s a lot of stuff that could be worked with.
Howabout the The Ssi-ruuk? they could be quite interesting as antagonistic threat :) Unlike the Yuuzhan Vong they do use technology, but they use the life force (soul?) of living beings to power it through the Entechment technology.
Yes, I found them very sinister. If I remember they captured a human boy and brain washed him to be like a loyal pet. Occasionally this would wear off and he would start to realise he was a prisoner far from home, so then he was taken back to the brain washing chamber. Eventually I think I’m right he played a part in their defeat.
I think the Ssi-Ruuk should come back as an invader, tho idk about the whole entechment thing. I find it funny how ppl hated aspects of the bong and how they worked like them being outside the force and stuff but then ppl were OK with entechment. I wouldn't hate it but I also wouldn't be for it
One of the big issues I always had with the Vong is the fact that their armour wasn't pressurised, yet no-one, not even the Imperial Remnant ever seemed to try to take advantage of that.
@@mithonig6553 I didn't read much into the series TBH. But seriously, a race that could be hindered by tear-gas shouldn't pose that much of a threat on the ground.
@@GoranXII too bad that like a third of them had eye implants that would prevent that and Ooglith suit and gnullith masks would make you immune to gas attacks anyways
This is my opinion on much of the Expanded Universe: It's better that they don't consider it attached to anything made by the disney Corporation. A prime example of what might be: Thrawn. In his own books he's a calculating genius, a great leader and communicator, laying out the thought process behind his brilliant strategies and presenting himself as a figure of menace and terror for his sheer cold effectiveness... In the two shows he's been a part of, he's written by stupid people that think smart people are omniscient wizards. he doesn't have plans, he has plot beats, and when he takes an action it's not something original, but a pale reflection of something someone read in a fragment of a book he was in, minus any of the reasoning or gravitas. Can you imagine what Mara Jade would have been like if written by Disney? How generic and marvel-esque the Vong would have been?
I personally liked the Yuuzhan Vong in the stories; they were a welcome change from the good guys battling endless Imperial stragglers trying to reclaim the Empire. Their "alienness", such as their violent culture and biological "technology", were also pretty interesting. I would love to see them in live action, but I suspect Disney would heavily water them down and make them just a bland group of mooks for the good guys to ragdoll in the big fight scenes.
#AskEck: what were the other Super Star Destroyers besides the Executor doing during and after the original trilogy, who were their captains, what did they do, etc
@@eds1942 yeah, the executor class, I know of the Lusankya and the Executor, but the rest are a mystery to me, and there were supposedly about a dozen of them
The original Star Wars novelization implied the Executor was the only one of its class, being a special build for Vader’s use. Even this was a retcon, as Vader was using an Imperial-class in New Hope. George later admitted that he wanted to boost Vader’s power and explain why the rebel fleet didn’t engage the Empire because of threats like the SSD.
It's specifically because I love the Yuuzhan Vong saga that I'm glad Disney doesn't want to touch it. I don't like Disney Star Wars at all and treat it as fanfiction to the Legends expanded universe. If they don't wanna go this way, good. Better for me to not see something I enjoyed ruined.
Why does it matter if they're gone they don't seem Star Wars like to me it looks like something from The Lord of the Rings they could just bring back a different alien species kind of like them but cool.
Because it was an awesome series that met alot to an entire generation of fans and Disney would rather make a bland politically correct villain than give even a single dollar to an outside creator. Star wars has been fucked since this company got its shitty hands all over it
@@ArgentWolf95 not really the armor looks like something from Lord of the Rings but aside from that maybe they can be in Warhammer 40K and it'll make sense.
Disney SW are circling creative bankruptcy, adamant that all roads lead to their precious First Order -- so at this point I'm very glad they're not thinking of the Vong . It's bad enough to see Admiral Smurf get ruined .
As a fan of Warhammer 40k and Star Wars that is what is probably what makes me like them so much. The Yuuzhan Vong were a interesting addition and the battles from the Yuuzhan Vong war were similar to Warhammer 40k battles. I also like the fact that the Republic and Imperial Remnant had to team up in order to win. The final Space battle of the war was the largest ever in Star Wars.
we all know we won't see them not bcz the force reason but bcz they're like rated M star wars, and we don't even get people with arms being cut off or significant scars or cuts, except kylo's.
Yeah but okay George your Lightsabers have meaning and definition for each one and crystal color. George: "I like pwetty colors." Also, George refusing to kill off Han Solo but then Disney is more than happy to do it and RUIN everything. Incompetence and idiocy plagues Hollywood.
Let's be honest, introducing the Vong couldn't do anything worse to the franchise than Disney already has just by letting Ryan Johnson and to a lesser degree J.J. Abrams near it.
Bruh JJ did more damage than Rian. But ultimately the blame lies on the writers and executives who went into one of the most lore dense universes without a unified story to tell
I dunno, a lot of it comes down to preference of course but I felt like J.J.'s first movie was alright. It wasn't amazing, felt like he was playing it safe and just remaking the originals. But then nearly every single interesting new aspect of the movie with possible story lines were all picked up by Ryan and thrown in the blender and forgotten. Then after the movie came out he went on record saying he didn't know or care about any of the lore. I'm not trying to sound like some elitist snob though I know I will to at least some degree, personally if a director goes into a movie with that mindset I don't think they have any reason to be part of an established franchise. I'm not asking them to read every single book and know every single bit of canon, I sure don't(it definitely helps to have a few of those people as advisers of course) but at the very least someone in charge of the outcome of a movie should respect it exists, which he didn't. Then for the third movie it was mostly just J.J. doing damage control. Him trying to tie up a trilogy that each movie had almost nothing to do with the other two apart from the characters inside it.
@@andrewbryant4259 Heck no man, it was RJ. He didn't want to make a sequel that would have a 3rd movie that follows it. He wanted to make a stand alone story using Star Wars to do whatever he wanted with it. The only issue was, it wasn't a stand alone film. It was the second to a 3 part movie. He even killed off the main villain that JJ mentioned had big plans for. JJ had to run damage control with the 3rd movie leaving not much time for an actual story. Heck he had to bring Palp back. He said it was always his plan but he full of it. RJ could have cared less. What's worse there's even a old clip of him saying the type of film writer he wants to be is one that has half of a fandom saying it's the best thing they ever saw and loving it while the other half says it's the worst thing ever and hates it. He got what he wanted, in his eyes it's mission completed
Gotta say you got your wires crossed bub. The opening toTFA is excellent: new characters, perspectives on a new adventure to find Luke. Except they forget the plot and then Han shows up and just doesn't leave. After Han shows up, every character gets redefined in connection to Han. It's not great writing. All that is fine, until the last scene. Rey meeting Luke in the last 30 seconds. If Rey had just jumped to hyperspace, and the camera drifts to Luke on a planet hidden by a gas Nebula sitting by himself on a rock in the ocean, it would have been fine. The next movie could have started from any point. But nope Rey had to come face to face and setup a meeting, and thaf forced the next movie to open there. People complain about Luke, but he was done dirty in TFA not in TLJ. Honestly in the Sequels I couldn't have given a rats ass about Han making an appearance.
@@andrewbryant4259 Why do we still have to argue whether it was JJ or Rian who did more damage? Imo they did an alley-oop dunking on all of the potential momentum of Star Wars. I say a pox on both of their houses though their crimes to the lore are different from each other.
Simple answer to your question in the title is obviously.... the fact it is now Legends and not Extended universe tells you all you need to know. Disney is reimagining starwars in their image. It is unfortunate. Personally I like starwars for everything pre disney and I have given up on the rest.
Not me, I loved the idea of an unknown enemy with tech or attributes so advanced they can compete with the best of what we know. Pretty much a reminder to not get comfortable
My version of the Vong would be Wounds in the Force. They would be connected through Yuuzhan’tar/Zonama Sekot, who would several it’s connection to them for their brutality, making the entire species Wounds in the Force.
The Vong were cut off from the living Force because they were all so bloodthirsty and warmongering so naturally their best idea for re-establishing their connection is, wait for it, _more_ violence and death? Were they hoping it would go full circle or something? I can see why George Lucas would want to retcon this rather silly notion out of the Vong.
I always liked the Vong; probably because I grew up reading the books. It’s not likely, but I’ve always hoped that if Disney ever picked up your animated legends idea, a NJO series could really sell the Vong to modern audiences and give them a shot at coming into canon.
#AskEck If a Borg Cube encountered a World Devastator, what would happen? Would the Borg be able to adapt to the Devastator's weapon, or would it just get eaten away? Or would they not even fight, but instead join forces, the World Devastator having similar adapting capabilities and being the epitome of Artificial Intelligence they've been striving for? And, should they fight, would the Devastator be able to adapt to and fire back Borg weaponry? *Video 5 of posting this😁
@darthrevan1281 More like the Borg would teleport drones aboard in critical infrastructure areas before the cube is destroyed and start assimilating tech and crew from within.
The Vong are cool. Disney doesn't do cool, it does terror, hate, abuse, discrimination and franchise genocide. We will NEVER EVER see the Legends style era make a return.
I've haven't read any novels on the vong. I've heard enough about them to be quite interested. They are like a blend of warhammer dark eldar, tyranids, and nulls/blanks. They bring a more mature theme to the SW universe
When it became apparent that Ezra had taken Thrawn to another galaxy, I thought the future held some sort of a 3 way royal rumble. Jedi, New Republic and Mandalorians. vs Imperial Remnant and Chiss Ascendency vs the Yuuzhan Vong (or Grysk if you want to call them that etc). Maybe theres some way they get to the SWs galaxy by some ancient device which is in the unknown regions etc. Queue conflict and a good explanation for why the imperial remnant isnt just wiped out by the time of the ST. All that was (or wasnt shown) in that new galaxy / peridia, made me realise that we probably wont see them.
Early Legends was a mess. So Lucas wanted them to establish and stick with a clear continuity and setup a team at Lucasfilm specifically to oversee it. They even went out to bring in the OT cast for a media campaign to draw fans in. However, for their first story arc, Lucas had requested that they move away from the old Jedi vs Sith and Republic vs Empire for something new. Their new enemy was to one that the Jedi would not be able to draw upon the Force to give them the edge over and they should drive both the Jedi and the New Republic to the brink. The DelRey team came up with the Yuuzhan Vong who were originally outside of the Force. This led to Lucas finally answering the question as to whether the Force is universal or a localized phenomenon to the A GFFA. Lucas also wanted them to kill off a main character in the first novel to show everyone that the gloves were off, that nobody was safe. The Del Rey team decided to kill off Chewy since he was more of an extension of Han Solo anyway. The decision upset a lot of fans. Later when Anakin Solo started to stand out as the next hero, Lucas had said that the name might get people confused and that Jacen Solo should be the real hero of the series. The writers decided to kill off Anakin Solo, and made Jacen (the original Ben Solo / Kylo Ren) the hero but tossed in a twist that lead the character to the Darkside. Aside for signing off on the books, that was the extent of Lucas’ involvement with the series. Of course he was invested in the prequels at the time. But his requests for the new direction was the seed for some of the criticisms that the storyline received. The other big issue was with the Force philosophy of the Potentium. Which was on the writers for that one. Lucasfilm had to put out a statement of clarification to clear the issue up. At any rate, after the Disney takeover, the was decided by the higher ups that the sequels should take place around or within a few years after the NJO’s Yuuzhan Vong invasion which turned the galaxy on its end to the point that no one who wasn’t familiar with the EU’s NJO series would recognize the state of the galaxy. So Lucasfilm made the decision to just dump nearly all of the EU into noncanon status under the Legends label to free things up for the new writers for the all of the movies, shows, books and games they had envisioned. And it’s rather ironic that the writers are walking on tippy toes to avoid any issues, with the exception of the Last Jedi which alone divided the fandom more than both the prequels and the NJO series together and more sharply.
I don't trust anyone to do the NJO right, because some of their own authors, especially Troy Denning, couldn't do it right. Troy Denning never got Traitor by Matthew Stover, and the whole post-NJO suffered because he was allowed to be the main author. I couldn't even be bothered to read the Dark Nest Trilogy or anything after it, because the way Jacen Solo was being handled didn't make any sense.
The Vong invasion and all books onward were my favorite part of the legends timeline ! I loved the Vong invasion, I loved the lost tribe of the Sith. I'm so sad the stories won't continue.
Honestly, the Vong storyline in Legends may have had some hit/miss moments here or there, but all Disney had to do was grab it all, smooth it all, and then... poof, profit. EU had its faults, but Disney had the opportunity of 20/20 hindsight to look back, see what was taken well and not controversial, and streamline everything... yet they chose not too
@@Řẽțářď67 I was curious and looked it up, they never specified and if anything there's some info that contradicts each other. Around Revan's time some Mando's had a bad encounter with Vong scouts, but it's also mentioned that the Vong's oldest worldship wasn't even a thousand years old. Sadly, like a lot of EU stuff, too many writers making stuff happen. Don't get me wrong I preferred the EU personally, but I'm not blind to flaws either
@@IrishEyes1994regarding the oldest vong ship being a thousand years old that was because as they were organic they died and grew again or something like that along the way, but i might be wrong tho
One of the main reasons why the Vong and by extension the New Jedi Order were disliked wasn't because they were 'too edgy or too silly'. It was because they were very, well, 'anti-Star Wars' and is values and seemed like they were killing characters off just for the sake of killing them off. Anakin Solo shouldn't have died after all. Neither should have many of the characters from Young Jedi Knights. And many of the Del Rey editorial decisions seemed to have an outright contempt on the past, be it the Bantam era of books or even the movies themselves. After all, Del Rey is the reason why the Star Wars EU was so unpopular at the end of the day after making Legacy of the Force (where Fate of the Jedi's fix-fic nature couldn't even fix) that the entire EU being rebooted with Disney may have been a good thing. Del Rey killed the EU.
That's a question that most of us asked YEARS ago (when they went with the "New Trilogy" instead of the Vong and the Solo twins. No Mara Jade, no proper Academy,, nothing.
I might be the only one saying this but I hope so. The Vong kind of came off as some 13-year-old’s edgy fanfiction Star Wars race (donut Steel) that needed stupidity from everyone involved as well as writer fiat to become a galactic threat even though they were overpowered as all hell. The writer even had to nerf them just to give the main cast a chance and they still weren't defeated but deus machina’d away at the end. They'd more likely change them to the point of not even being the Vong as you know them anymore to make it fit into the Star Wars Cinematic Universe. If I think they're hilarious, an average Star Wars audience would laugh any movie these Borg Zerg Mary Sues out of theaters .
I've always thought of the NJO as what happens after some Star Wars writers read Sam Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations/Jihad vs McWorld". After Fukuyama's "End of the Empire" ;)
So at this point, after multiple disasters and hilariousness, we're still somehow expecting consistency and uniform direction in canon from Disney Star Wars? *shocked Ewok face*
The Vong being oitside of the Force is a grave misconception. Outside of the Force means outside of nature AKA dead. There were certain methods to actually sense yhe Vong, either through biological implants or connecting to certain objects. The Vong sort of existed on a different plane within the Force, ever since they were severed from their original living homeworld, Yuuzhan'tar.
I honestly love these kind of video. Being someone who never read any lengend-related stuff, I helps me understand things that I overheared here and there. Thanks for that Eck!
The vong could still fit in if they, perhaps did away with the no-force thing, perhaps instead making it so they have no force sensitives, or like only one or two in their entire population, and to make their primary aspect instead the hatred of technology.
Of course they will, just like they ignored Mara Jade. Or Luke's new approach for the Jedi Order. Or Han being a supporting and loving husband and father. Or Thrawn actually being a strategic genius instead of simply being referred to one. Or...
I've never liked the Vong for reasons I won't go into here (my headcanon for the EU timeline essentially ends at the Thrawn duology), so I wouldn't exactly be thrilled if they were reintroduced into the current canon. I do like the idea of an extra-galactic threat so existential and overwhelming that it forces the entirety of the Star Wars galaxy to band together and oppose it, I just wish it had been executed differently. That said, I do have to give LucasFilm execs credit for allowing such a radical narrative change that essentially changed the EU forever. That kind of creative risk taking is unheard of with Disney behind the helm.
Would you mind going into those reasons if someone asked? Because imo the Vong are some of the most interesting concepts ever introduced in Star Wars (I'm specially interested in their biotechnology).
i enjoyed the NJO and would be open to seeing the vong, with some tweaks, set up for rey's jedi. i was so sick of imperial warlords by the time vector prime came out!
The two species that the Yuuzhan Vong were caught between were the Silentium (Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu) and the Abominor (the only known member being the Great Heep from Star Wars: Droids)
I recently finished my re-read of NJO during the course of this year. I still love the series. Some of the best EU books (Star By Star & Traitor for example) appear in the series. There's no way Disney would let LucasFilm touch the Yuuzhan Vong as they were in the books. They are too dark and the version we'd get would be a watered down version for the worse, just like most things LucasFilm pulls from the EU to canon. The other thing I think do a live adaptation of the Yuuzhan Vong would be hard and expensive to do.
@@andrewbryant4259 they're wasting money on disney plus a 15 billion dollar waste. Just just blew over billion this year. Reckless spending doesn't bring in customers.
@@rexthewolf3149 they're not making that much in the parks and a news update disney got caught bribeing reedy creek officials. That's criminal charges right there.
The appealing part to me was that it wasn’t yet another “something, something dark side” story, but sort of a mix between ww2 japanese and islamic fundamentalists. Gave them an aspect of realism that “evil for the sake of being evil”- dark lords never had to me.
idk why i never thought of it before now, but based off the picture of the Vong that was used for the thumbnail of this video, you could use the LEGO "hunter orc" figures from the Lord of the Rings (Hobbit?) sets as stand-ins for the Vong in LEGO Star Wars displays. they look damn similar. missing nose, greasy black hair, pointy ears, pale skin, orange eyes, spikey brown clothing.
Short answer is YES. Long answer is in the video itself. If you reading this either before or during the video, then watch it! You already clicked on it, so why not watch it anyway! Author of this video would be glad if you watched it fully. Also comment, doesn't matter if alone or under mine, that definitly help his statistics on youtube.
I don't think you have to retcon the Vong's disconnection from the Force so much as simply tweak those comments to be a misinterpretation. Remember, in the Phase I-II canon, Thrawn discovered a species that was able to generate an anti-Force field around them. So what if Celestials of some form (perhaps the Mortis themselves) cursed the Vong with a similar field? They're not so much disconnected from the Force as masked from it. This could further be linked to not only their penchent for war, but their total dependence on organic tech - which, in itself, should be connected to the Force simply because it's alive. If the Disney canon ever wants to be accepted as a viable alternatifve or replacement to the Lucas or Phase II canons (Phase I canon has a different Clone Wars and pre-Star Wars history, thus being partially retconned and replaced by Phase II when TPM came out), they HAVE to start respecting those two continuities. Phase II canon remains the most popular canon BECAUSE it makes the Lucas Canon (i.e. the Star Wars Saga only) its core and builds off of it. This continued insistence that "there is no source material" while Filoni keeps trying to slip in bits of Phase II behind Kennedy's back has really harmed Disney Lucasfilm's attempts to create its own canon, and there are far more contradictions within Disney Canon than there ever were in Phase II. We do know the Vong were supposed to appear in the Clone Wars, and they may actually be Disney Lucasfilm's best chance of redeeming themselves. Think about it. The Vong lost their ability to interact with the Force after creating an entire religion and society based around organic-only life. They turned to masochism, most likely as an attempt to seek forgiveness from their gods. But as the Vong fleet made its long journey between the galaxies, they forgot the nature of their sins or why they were doing the things they did. In so many ways, the Vong are a wonderful Star Wars parallel to Catholocism - so full of rites and rituals that have lost their meaning and a history that became completely sidetracked by the bloody events of the Crusades and Inquisition. In Phase II, the Vong had a MASSIVE redemption arc that really fit in with Lucas's message. We need such a redemption arc in modern times, where religious strife between Muslims, Libertines, Christians, and Jews are at an all-time high. Seeing how the Vong are redeemed and learn to coexist with the Jedi while also learning how to sense the Force again and reconnecting with their gods would be a HUGE step in not only bringing fans together, but also in redeeming Disney's current and firm alignment with the Libertine religion and crusade against the very traditional belief and societal systems they once promoted.
#AskEck I’m rereading Legacy of the Force now which hits on Jacen’s flow walking. Jacen goes back to watch operation Knightfall and Anakin slaughtering the Jedi. Do you think there could have been a way for Jacen to affect/alter Anakin’s destiny(had he wanted to) if he had stayed long enough to commune with Anakin?
Don't think Flow Walking works that way as Jacen teaches Tahiri to do it and she tries and ultimately fails multiple times to alter Anakin Solo's destiny. Or at least that's how I remember it, haven't read Legacy since it was being printed
"Edgy" is really the defining word, you nailed it. They are very 90s edgelord, extreme, hyper-violent, etc. There is an excessively 90s design to them. While any era of Star Wars has always been of their time, most of it ages well. 1977 Star Wars doesn't have so much of the 70s baked into it to make it stand out in that way. Compare it to the Thrawn trilogy, which doesn't scream "80s!" This is also why Dark Empire doesn't fair so well. Being in my twenties in the 90s, there were certain super edgy tropes you would see in all our media which immediately stood out as "extreme dark and edgy." A lot of it was popular, which is why it kept getting made...but a lot of it was abject failure. It was a response creatively sound art which it aped the ideas of without understanding the substance. And it is something we still see today (Zach Snyder's take on Superman/Justice League comes to mind.) A lot of us saw it for what it was, and a lot of us loved it...and 20 years from now it will have aged so poorly, and nobody will want to draw from any of that part of the mythos at all. The Vong are a terrible execution of some interesting ideas. They are clearly exploring some of the ideas that are worth exploring, and we saw it in Ahsoka. They also don't even make sense. How are they simultaneously cut off from the force and making everything out of organic life?
#askEck What ultimately brought about Jacen Solo's fall to the dark side? It seemed strange to me after what happened in the final book of the new jedi order.
Pride, arrogance, the idea that because he had been the first to consider new concepts about the Force he was suddenly above old fashioned ideas like "good" and "evil", not talking to any of his family for five whole years, delusions that what he was doing were necessary for the greater good.
I would argue he pulled a Revan during his travels to learn and master the Force. He learned so many esoteric powers in the process - hence the Revan comparison - but became convinced that there was no true difference between Light and Dark before Lumiya seduced him into the Sith by working from Vergere's existing teachings.
what david said, and also the fact that he had been tortured extensively by Vegere. That crazy bird lady broke him and he never really recovered. If luke had any sense he would have thrown him in a loony asylum after the war. But this is also the same guy who let the vong live in peace so you know
when i saw the title my first guess was "what if it turns out the vong's name sounds similar to something like 'democracy now!" in chinese then disney would definitely have to avoid using them
#AskEck I'd love to see a genuine analysis of Jacen Solo's fall in Dark Nest and LotF. Is it character assassination? Did Denning misunderstand the philosophy of Lucas and the NJO writers? Is it worse than TLJ Luke?
Years ago, i heard Chewbacca was killed off early on because of how hard the character is to write for in books. Cant remember the source so no idea if it's true.
Yeah, they dropped a moon on poor Chewie...I mean that literally. At least he went out like a hero. I think he died saving Han and Leia's kids, if I remember correctly.
@@g00n71please do. New Jedi Order is amazing. It builds on a lot of the rest of the EU post-endor, you will get a little more out of it if you read the catalogue, but it's still really good without it
honestly... I'm okay with this. The Vong, while a cool and interesting concept, aren't quite "it". I like the idea of an extra galactic threat but the vong are just kinda super edgy bois straight out of Warhammer. Which is fine, I think Star Wars could always use a little Warhammer injected into it's DNA from time to time. But the Vong are a bit much imo Star Wars needs a short series of things just kinda happening around the Galaxy and maybe a "What If" style show. the EU never shied away from more mature forms of violence so it's not like it wouldn't fit. It just needs to be kinda side conent
#AskEck: Do you think we will get or that there IS an explanation for the various magicks in Star Wars, (like obviously the nightsisters but also even less explored examples like Orphne and Rish Loo's Gungan magick) and do you have any personal thoughts on how these can stem from the force but not be directly connected?
#AskEck: how would palpatine, with or without vader fared in the sith empire that was around during the old republic era, either as a regular sith lord or doing what he tried in the prequel trilogy (guessing this wouldn't work as well considering the era differences and the jedi even at this time being less hooked to the republic.)
Palpatine was so steeped in the rule of two it’s almost impossible to imagine him coordinating with other sith equals. He was all about dominating even his closest allies. Interesting topic, but ultimately I think either he kills all the other sith and forms his empire or they recognize the danger in him and kill him at a young age
palpatine would've overthrown whoever was in power. he'd murk exar kun or darth vitiate or whoever. he was the pinnacle of the rule of two and he was the product of 1000 years of knowledge and power. The old republic sith aren't that powerful, with a few exceptions. common misconception.
#AskEck: What are your thoughts on Operation Domino and how the Galactic Civil War would've gone if it was successful? I wish we could've gotten more lore about the "Secession Worlds" mentioned in The Essential Guide to Warfare that the Empire crushed early on.
The Vong, were, without a doubt, my favorite bad guys. They were a terrifying threat that felt realistic, and evil. The jedi/sith conflict is the most tiring aspect of SW (at this time) as it felt like it had gone nowhere. It was the same tired tropes and nothing grew, nothing changed. The Vongs lack of the force/empathy forced EVERYONE to change. The jedi/sith's journey to growing as factions was interesting (as was the Republic actually getting off its ass to become a semi functioning govt). I still remember reading Vector Prime, and Chewie dying, it was shocking and for once i got the feeling, that the main characters werent safe and it really hammered home how bad these guys were (which made the story all the more interesting). It must be said that chewie went out like a boss, a true hero, saving Han's kids. Ill never forget that scene. All these things are probably examples as to why they wont come back, the current SW trend is not to push boundries, but do the bland crap they know will sell toys.
One of my cousins refused to read Vector Prime or any of its sequels because she found out Chewbacca died. It's ironic Chewie is the only one of the core OT cast that's still alive in canon aside from droids.
There's a very good reason to keep him alive over the human cast: He can be played by any tall dude in a furry suit. He will be appearing in movies and TV for decades to come.
@@AndorianBlueshow dare you call Chewbacca a furry
@@TheTrollingMaster-xr9ellmao
Well with the story the way it is he's the only one that still has a place in the galaxy and I really hope that Disney gives him the place he should have as the leader or at least ambassador of his people.
I hope they keep Chewie around for a long time. That’s one of the changes that I actually appreciate.
It would’ve been interesting and funny to see the immense Vong army and the mother ship while a high ranking imperial officer asks Luke. “Do you know what would be useful right now?” Luke *bilwidered* Imperial officer “A Death Star”
That would have required the New Republic to betray its values. The New Republic considered developing biological and genetic weapons to fight the Vong, but came to conclusion that if they did so, they would be tacitly admitting they were really no better than the Empire.
@@terrylong8894 I get that, but being nice about war to an enemy that won’t to you gets your own people annihilated and that’s what almost happened. The Vong were Ruthless. Whether they were blown up on a ship from a super weapon, got stabbed by a lightsaber or shot with a blaster bolt has the same outcome and an instant death seems more humane if that’s what they were going for.
. . . yeah, that joke is actually in the several books in a few different variations.
Imagime this scene with the P. Funk ufo as the mother ship
*Vong get out of the ship
-Aaaw we want the funk
“I can't help but wonder how the old Empire would have handled the crisis. I hope you will forgive my partisan attitude but it seems to me that the Emperor would have mobilized his entire armament at the first threat and dealt with the Yuuzhan Vong in an efficient and expeditious manner through the use of overwhelming force. Certainly better than Borsk Fey'lya's policy if I understood it correctly as a policy of negotiating with the invaders at the same time as he was fighting them sending signals of weakness to a ruthless enemy who used negotiation only as a cover for further conquests."
"That's not what the Empire would have done Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors or some other mistake and a hotshot enemy pilot would have dropped a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done."
You don’t really need a “can’t be touched by the force” enemy, because conventional enemies already have that sort of plot armour 99% of the time when they fight Jedi and somehow the Jedi only fight by swinging around their lightsaber and forget that they have telekinesis, mind tricks, and so on. Looking at how Force Push works in the shows and movies you would think it has like a one-hour cooldown or something.
No need for a well thought out gimmick when bad writing will suffice and it becomes a competition between incompetent villains and idiot heroes to see which one is slightly less self defeating at the moment... which has been pretty much the entirety of DisCan so far
@@cyberpup2246However, the EU was a flexible area of potential where good stories from it could be brought in. Meanwhile disney’s cannon immediately discredits most of the possibilities outright relegating anything not under their control to fan fiction.
@@cyberpup2246 I’ll definitely agree not allot of the EU works well, but it has its moments and characters. Like I said before, I’d missed the freedom, and some of the better defined rules for things like hyperspace. I must agree the stories you mentioned, even under Disney’s cannon, were ones that worked well.
@@cyberpup2246 the difference though is that DisCan had forty years of material to see what worked and what didn't by what came before. DisCan also had access to a much larger budget and resources than the EU. Finally, DisCan had complete creative freedom to do anything...and they still turned in inferior product.
Lmao, yeah that's true. The force is used so often in the EU in many instances, yet still the Jedi aren't invincible. Canon shouldn't have any problems tbh
Vong were controversial for a lot of reasons. One more important one was there were so many authors who all got a crack at a novel that some of the rules of how they worked got bent. Some books were really good, others were really bad and the constant struggle against the vong organic stuff felt...lacking compared to X-wing vs TiE type crunch. In the end, I think the series was good and interesting, but I doubt we ever see Disney touch them.
I full agree. I read them all but I am not sure if I enjoyed even half of them. And the constant loosing of "our" heroes did not make it better. For me, the turning point was the novel about Jacen on former Coruscant. I enjoyed that one and the aspect of a new force perspective but the most other books of the series were rather exhausting and sometimes even annoying. And I think LucasArts knew that people don't really enjoy the Vong and ended the series rather quickly in the end.
@@christianscheidl5364 The novel is Traitor
@@christianscheidl5364I basically liked the series till after traitor then got tired
Aside for the wildly inconsistent quality of the writing between the books, my main problem was that it was too depressing. If I remember right, Star by Star (which I think was one of the better books in the series) that detailed the fall of Coruscant was released on the heals of 9/11.
Overall though, I enjoyed the new direction for the post OT era.
I argue it's because of the true violence, the mutilation and torture.
Edit:star by star is truly the best.
I started out NJO as a Vong hater, but I've turned around on them. The Vong invasion was a really good way to upset the status quo within the galaxy, and the later stuff when they're dealing with the aftermath and all the Vongformed planets was really interesting. The concept of a whole species cut off from the Force was always kinda wack, but I liked how it evened the playing field between the Jedi and their enemies without it being just another invasion of dark side force users.
yeah exactly they were a different kind of enemy that broke the repetitive dark side/light side cycle of the Star Wars galaxy
Agreed. I wasn't a fan of the idea of the Vong but once I read the series I was blown away by how fleshed (no pun intended) out they were as antagonists. The whole series was very well written, very dark, very morally grey, not for kids
I like the Vong invasion the most because it was finally something other than the repetitive Jedi/Sith pissing match.
I remember how popular the NJO was when it first came out. It broke away from the "jedi vs sith" narrative that star wars had been up to that point and i think that combined with the dark sadistic nature of the vong is why disney will never pick it up, but it's one of my favorite star series ever.
Do the Yuuzhan Vong, conquer planets and then later destroy them, or just straight up destroy them directly?
@ezrathewolf3726 Both. They would terraform them to match their homeworld, or destroy the planet if the resistance was too much
I'd like to point out that the vong weren't really outside the force. both Anakin and Jacen were able to learn to use "Vongsense" to differing degrees, essentially attuning to the different frequency of the force the vong were using, one which was much much weaker.
And Tahiri... kinda
Having this sort of weak connection, rather than none at all, seems more consistent with the idea of The Force flowing through all life and whatnot.
@@cobaltrogue9175I mean they are supposed yo have evolved a symbiotic force bound with their living homeworld... which they blow up.
They didn't use it.
It’s going to be hard to make the Vong work on screen without an R rating.
No it's not hard.
Yuh huh.
Just make them similar to the Orks from the Lord of the Rings with some elements from the Covenant in Halo.
Just because you have a disturbing faction does not mean that the films have to have an R rating.
Then do it.
Here’s an idea: stop being emotionally fragile and get angry at real stuff like people hoarding property or slavery
It’s disappointing that they ignore so much of the legends books because they had such cool ideas and great stories
I wouldn't be so bad if they created some content just as good but it's just terrible all around.
@@AlejandroFlores-vi8tl they've made a ton of good content.
They would just end being accused of “stealing” from legends.
@@neofulcrum5013 How can someone steal from themselves? Lmao those people are silly.
@@Tuskin38
Most of the Legends content was made under license, not in-house like Disney Canon stuff is. Disney/Lucasfilm still technically owns the rights to it, but that doesn't change the fact that someone else came up with it. So it wouldn't be theft in a _legal_ sense, but it would in an _ethical_ sense.
But then again Disney's been caught red-handed directly ripping fan-made designs and even stuff made by other companies for other settings _cough40kTauandEldarvehiclesinmarvelcomicscough,_ so I'm surprised they _haven't_ done that yet.
I was a huge fan of the New Jedi Order book series. With the death of Chewbacca at the end of the first book it really set the tone of how the good guys aren't always going to win. I read every book on the edge of my seat cause the good guys were getting their butts kicked every step of the way. It was a bit more on the "horror" side of stories so maybe live action isn't the way to go for that story line.
Exactly if Chewie and the Solo kids aren't safe no one was.
I still remember freaking out over Anakin's sacrifice 😂😂
Disney will never "canon-ize" the Vong for the same reason they won't let Thrawn have his ysalamiri -- the Force just *has* to be the be-all and end-all of everything in their AU -- can't have anything that brings the Jedi and/or Sith down a notch. It's a real shame, because the Vong were far more interesting antagonists than simply using the Empire yet again, especially when it no longer made sense to do so.
can we not talk about what disney did to Thrawn.
I honestly don’t understand why anyone would be surprised - at this point - that Disney doesn’t care about any of the pre-existing EU lore. They don’t even care about their own canon lore.
I liked the concept of an extra-galactic invader that was outside the realm of the force but don't like the Vong in general, they're like a weird hybrid of the Tyranids and Dark Eldar from 40k.
That's my opinion too. My favorite thing from that entire story is how drastically they changed the galaxy, which is something Disney hasn't been willing to do.
Honestly this is close enough to my opinion I'm just going to up vote rather trying to go into details
And that makes them awesome.
The Yuuzhan Vong was just C tier grimdark space fantasy shoehorned into Star Wars.
Yeah , they're too fantasy even for Star Wars
I agree with Eck that it’s more likely that we see an analogue to the vong, but what that could be remains to be seen and there’s a lot of stuff that could be worked with.
Howabout the The Ssi-ruuk? they could be quite interesting as antagonistic threat :) Unlike the Yuuzhan Vong they do use technology, but they use the life force (soul?) of living beings to power it through the Entechment technology.
Yes, I found them very sinister. If I remember they captured a human boy and brain washed him to be like a loyal pet. Occasionally this would wear off and he would start to realise he was a prisoner far from home, so then he was taken back to the brain washing chamber. Eventually I think I’m right he played a part in their defeat.
I think the Ssi-Ruuk should come back as an invader, tho idk about the whole entechment thing. I find it funny how ppl hated aspects of the bong and how they worked like them being outside the force and stuff but then ppl were OK with entechment. I wouldn't hate it but I also wouldn't be for it
The dinosaurs with snakes coming out of their noses?
@@rector0455 yep
The Yevetha were always cooler/more threatening to me than mean dinosaurs
One of the big issues I always had with the Vong is the fact that their armour wasn't pressurised, yet no-one, not even the Imperial Remnant ever seemed to try to take advantage of that.
Wait i thought Anakin and the Givin ventured the Atmosphere out of that one space station
@@mithonig6553 I didn't read much into the series TBH. But seriously, a race that could be hindered by tear-gas shouldn't pose that much of a threat on the ground.
@@GoranXII they had masks for stuff like that and given how they tteated pain they would probably get a high out of tear gas
@@mithonig6553 Worshipping of pain or not, when your eyes are streaming with tears, you're _not_ operating at full efficiency.
@@GoranXII too bad that like a third of them had eye implants that would prevent that and Ooglith suit and gnullith masks would make you immune to gas attacks anyways
It’s probably for the best that they don’t mess that story up.
Hard to mess up a story arc that was already garbage from the get go.
They won't be adapting the NJO series of novels, though?
@@Spectro108 Hard to mess up? You underestimate Disney lol.
@@Spectro108It’s better than anything Disney is putting out in their boring subpar canon.
Enjoy your garbage can.🗑️
This is my opinion on much of the Expanded Universe: It's better that they don't consider it attached to anything made by the disney Corporation.
A prime example of what might be: Thrawn.
In his own books he's a calculating genius, a great leader and communicator, laying out the thought process behind his brilliant strategies and presenting himself as a figure of menace and terror for his sheer cold effectiveness...
In the two shows he's been a part of, he's written by stupid people that think smart people are omniscient wizards. he doesn't have plans, he has plot beats, and when he takes an action it's not something original, but a pale reflection of something someone read in a fragment of a book he was in, minus any of the reasoning or gravitas.
Can you imagine what Mara Jade would have been like if written by Disney? How generic and marvel-esque the Vong would have been?
The Yuuzhan would be cool. Seeing Thrawn’s ysalamiri would be also.
I personally liked the Yuuzhan Vong in the stories; they were a welcome change from the good guys battling endless Imperial stragglers trying to reclaim the Empire. Their "alienness", such as their violent culture and biological "technology", were also pretty interesting. I would love to see them in live action, but I suspect Disney would heavily water them down and make them just a bland group of mooks for the good guys to ragdoll in the big fight scenes.
#AskEck: what were the other Super Star Destroyers besides the Executor doing during and after the original trilogy, who were their captains, what did they do, etc
Of the Executor class?
I know of the ‘Iron Fist’ and the ‘Lusankya’.
@@eds1942 yeah, the executor class, I know of the Lusankya and the Executor, but the rest are a mystery to me, and there were supposedly about a dozen of them
@@thatguy45177 in Legends, SSD Terror was guarding, and apparently being equipped as a carrier for, the Tie Phantom project.
The original Star Wars novelization implied the Executor was the only one of its class, being a special build for Vader’s use. Even this was a retcon, as Vader was using an Imperial-class in New Hope. George later admitted that he wanted to boost Vader’s power and explain why the rebel fleet didn’t engage the Empire because of threats like the SSD.
@@thatguy45177 a dozen sounds about right.
It's specifically because I love the Yuuzhan Vong saga that I'm glad Disney doesn't want to touch it. I don't like Disney Star Wars at all and treat it as fanfiction to the Legends expanded universe. If they don't wanna go this way, good. Better for me to not see something I enjoyed ruined.
Well, they made sure Kol Skywalker was never born
Bio-horror peoples aren't exactly considered brand friendly by companies like Disney. Which is sad, because they are insanely cool.
Why does it matter if they're gone they don't seem Star Wars like to me it looks like something from The Lord of the Rings they could just bring back a different alien species kind of like them but cool.
Because it was an awesome series that met alot to an entire generation of fans and Disney would rather make a bland politically correct villain than give even a single dollar to an outside creator. Star wars has been fucked since this company got its shitty hands all over it
@@Automaton237 this is far from Tolkien too. They are from Warhammer 40k.
@@ArgentWolf95 not really the armor looks like something from Lord of the Rings but aside from that maybe they can be in Warhammer 40K and it'll make sense.
@@Automaton237 they have a big Sadomasochism thing going on in their lore, even the Orcs and Uruks aren't that bad mate.
Disney SW are circling creative bankruptcy, adamant that all roads lead to their precious First Order -- so at this point I'm very glad they're not thinking of the Vong .
It's bad enough to see Admiral Smurf get ruined .
They’ve been ignoring the expanded universe (Legends) from the start
The Yuuzhan Vong feel like they wandered into the Star Wars galaxy right out of the Warhammer 40k Galaxy.
As a fan of Warhammer 40k and Star Wars that is what is probably what makes me like them so much. The Yuuzhan Vong were a interesting addition and the battles from the Yuuzhan Vong war were similar to Warhammer 40k battles. I also like the fact that the Republic and Imperial Remnant had to team up in order to win. The final Space battle of the war was the largest ever in Star Wars.
I'm currently 5 books in. Just finished the Battle of Fondor.
Good luck I'm 11 books in and I needed a break.
@@razorburn645 Already took it. Started Wheel of Time. I'll jump back and forth after Christmas.
I'm on book 11... Get those tissues ready for Star by star
we all know we won't see them not bcz the force reason but bcz they're like rated M star wars, and we don't even get people with arms being cut off or significant scars or cuts, except kylo's.
I love that George ignores what he doesn't like. “I made it up; I do what I want.”
Yeah but okay George your Lightsabers have meaning and definition for each one and crystal color.
George: "I like pwetty colors." Also, George refusing to kill off Han Solo but then Disney is more than happy to do it and RUIN everything. Incompetence and idiocy plagues Hollywood.
I can't think of a villian that's less Star Wars than the Yuuzham Vong.
Let's be honest, introducing the Vong couldn't do anything worse to the franchise than Disney already has just by letting Ryan Johnson and to a lesser degree J.J. Abrams near it.
Bruh JJ did more damage than Rian. But ultimately the blame lies on the writers and executives who went into one of the most lore dense universes without a unified story to tell
I dunno, a lot of it comes down to preference of course but I felt like J.J.'s first movie was alright. It wasn't amazing, felt like he was playing it safe and just remaking the originals. But then nearly every single interesting new aspect of the movie with possible story lines were all picked up by Ryan and thrown in the blender and forgotten. Then after the movie came out he went on record saying he didn't know or care about any of the lore. I'm not trying to sound like some elitist snob though I know I will to at least some degree, personally if a director goes into a movie with that mindset I don't think they have any reason to be part of an established franchise. I'm not asking them to read every single book and know every single bit of canon, I sure don't(it definitely helps to have a few of those people as advisers of course) but at the very least someone in charge of the outcome of a movie should respect it exists, which he didn't.
Then for the third movie it was mostly just J.J. doing damage control. Him trying to tie up a trilogy that each movie had almost nothing to do with the other two apart from the characters inside it.
@@andrewbryant4259 Heck no man, it was RJ. He didn't want to make a sequel that would have a 3rd movie that follows it. He wanted to make a stand alone story using Star Wars to do whatever he wanted with it. The only issue was, it wasn't a stand alone film. It was the second to a 3 part movie. He even killed off the main villain that JJ mentioned had big plans for. JJ had to run damage control with the 3rd movie leaving not much time for an actual story. Heck he had to bring Palp back. He said it was always his plan but he full of it. RJ could have cared less. What's worse there's even a old clip of him saying the type of film writer he wants to be is one that has half of a fandom saying it's the best thing they ever saw and loving it while the other half says it's the worst thing ever and hates it. He got what he wanted, in his eyes it's mission completed
Gotta say you got your wires crossed bub.
The opening toTFA is excellent: new characters, perspectives on a new adventure to find Luke. Except they forget the plot and then Han shows up and just doesn't leave. After Han shows up, every character gets redefined in connection to Han. It's not great writing. All that is fine, until the last scene. Rey meeting Luke in the last 30 seconds. If Rey had just jumped to hyperspace, and the camera drifts to Luke on a planet hidden by a gas Nebula sitting by himself on a rock in the ocean, it would have been fine. The next movie could have started from any point. But nope Rey had to come face to face and setup a meeting, and thaf forced the next movie to open there.
People complain about Luke, but he was done dirty in TFA not in TLJ.
Honestly in the Sequels I couldn't have given a rats ass about Han making an appearance.
@@andrewbryant4259 Why do we still have to argue whether it was JJ or Rian who did more damage? Imo they did an alley-oop dunking on all of the potential momentum of Star Wars. I say a pox on both of their houses though their crimes to the lore are different from each other.
Alien Queen is a disney princess now. I'd be glad to see some of these characters facehugged.
Look at what happened when Disney took "Palpatine returns" from Dark Empire, everyone complains.
Lol are you serious? Somehow palpatine returns and somehow people hate it. Maybe explain stuff
there's a big diffrence between a well written plot that is well explained and somehow hufflepuff returned.
Geeeesh... that "I am 12 years old and this is so cool" design of this creatures....
At this point I don't want Lucasfilms to touch any of the IP anymore. I just hope they find someone else worthy of the mantel.
Simple answer to your question in the title is obviously.... the fact it is now Legends and not Extended universe tells you all you need to know. Disney is reimagining starwars in their image. It is unfortunate. Personally I like starwars for everything pre disney and I have given up on the rest.
I always hated the idea of the Vong. I don't miss them in the least.
Exactly, thank you!!!
Not me, I loved the idea of an unknown enemy with tech or attributes so advanced they can compete with the best of what we know. Pretty much a reminder to not get comfortable
My version of the Vong would be Wounds in the Force. They would be connected through Yuuzhan’tar/Zonama Sekot, who would several it’s connection to them for their brutality, making the entire species Wounds in the Force.
I think the Vong shouldn't be made Canon. Simple because they'll be ruined.
The Vong were cut off from the living Force because they were all so bloodthirsty and warmongering so naturally their best idea for re-establishing their connection is, wait for it, _more_ violence and death? Were they hoping it would go full circle or something? I can see why George Lucas would want to retcon this rather silly notion out of the Vong.
I always liked the Vong; probably because I grew up reading the books. It’s not likely, but I’ve always hoped that if Disney ever picked up your animated legends idea, a NJO series could really sell the Vong to modern audiences and give them a shot at coming into canon.
They're going to ignore the body-horror, pain addicts? But it's just such a fertile ground for kids toys! Think of the Vong themed Micky ears!!
#AskEck If a Borg Cube encountered a World Devastator, what would happen?
Would the Borg be able to adapt to the Devastator's weapon, or would it just get eaten away? Or would they not even fight, but instead join forces, the World Devastator having similar adapting capabilities and being the epitome of Artificial Intelligence they've been striving for? And, should they fight, would the Devastator be able to adapt to and fire back Borg weaponry?
*Video 5 of posting this😁
@darthrevan1281 More like the Borg would teleport drones aboard in critical infrastructure areas before the cube is destroyed and start assimilating tech and crew from within.
The Vong are cool. Disney doesn't do cool, it does terror, hate, abuse, discrimination and franchise genocide. We will NEVER EVER see the Legends style era make a return.
I've haven't read any novels on the vong. I've heard enough about them to be quite interested. They are like a blend of warhammer dark eldar, tyranids, and nulls/blanks. They bring a more mature theme to the SW universe
Yeah, they’re probably the most WH40K thing in SW
When it became apparent that Ezra had taken Thrawn to another galaxy, I thought the future held some sort of a 3 way royal rumble.
Jedi, New Republic and Mandalorians. vs Imperial Remnant and Chiss Ascendency vs the Yuuzhan Vong (or Grysk if you want to call them that etc).
Maybe theres some way they get to the SWs galaxy by some ancient device which is in the unknown regions etc. Queue conflict and a good explanation for why the imperial remnant isnt just wiped out by the time of the ST.
All that was (or wasnt shown) in that new galaxy / peridia, made me realise that we probably wont see them.
Early Legends was a mess. So Lucas wanted them to establish and stick with a clear continuity and setup a team at Lucasfilm specifically to oversee it. They even went out to bring in the OT cast for a media campaign to draw fans in.
However, for their first story arc, Lucas had requested that they move away from the old Jedi vs Sith and Republic vs Empire for something new. Their new enemy was to one that the Jedi would not be able to draw upon the Force to give them the edge over and they should drive both the Jedi and the New Republic to the brink. The DelRey team came up with the Yuuzhan Vong who were originally outside of the Force. This led to Lucas finally answering the question as to whether the Force is universal or a localized phenomenon to the A
GFFA. Lucas also wanted them to kill off a main character in the first novel to show everyone that the gloves were off, that nobody was safe. The Del Rey team decided to kill off Chewy since he was more of an extension of Han Solo anyway. The decision upset a lot of fans. Later when Anakin Solo started to stand out as the next hero, Lucas had said that the name might get people confused and that Jacen Solo should be the real hero of the series. The writers decided to kill off Anakin Solo, and made Jacen (the original Ben Solo / Kylo Ren) the hero but tossed in a twist that lead the character to the Darkside. Aside for signing off on the books, that was the extent of Lucas’ involvement with the series.
Of course he was invested in the prequels at the time. But his requests for the new direction was the seed for some of the criticisms that the storyline received. The other big issue was with the Force philosophy of the Potentium. Which was on the writers for that one. Lucasfilm had to put out a statement of clarification to clear the issue up.
At any rate, after the Disney takeover, the was decided by the higher ups that the sequels should take place around or within a few years after the NJO’s Yuuzhan Vong invasion which turned the galaxy on its end to the point that no one who wasn’t familiar with the EU’s NJO series would recognize the state of the galaxy. So Lucasfilm made the decision to just dump nearly all of the EU into noncanon status under the Legends label to free things up for the new writers for the all of the movies, shows, books and games they had envisioned. And it’s rather ironic that the writers are walking on tippy toes to avoid any issues, with the exception of the Last Jedi which alone divided the fandom more than both the prequels and the NJO series together and more sharply.
My opinion: legends is canon. Disney is not canon
I don't trust anyone to do the NJO right, because some of their own authors, especially Troy Denning, couldn't do it right. Troy Denning never got Traitor by Matthew Stover, and the whole post-NJO suffered because he was allowed to be the main author. I couldn't even be bothered to read the Dark Nest Trilogy or anything after it, because the way Jacen Solo was being handled didn't make any sense.
Vong are just too weak for Rey Skywalker for the audience to consider them a threat to Rey.
Honestly good thing, I for one really hated how tese bastards just got away scot-free with all the shit they did in the books.
The Vong invasion and all books onward were my favorite part of the legends timeline ! I loved the Vong invasion, I loved the lost tribe of the Sith. I'm so sad the stories won't continue.
Honestly, the Vong storyline in Legends may have had some hit/miss moments here or there, but all Disney had to do was grab it all, smooth it all, and then... poof, profit.
EU had its faults, but Disney had the opportunity of 20/20 hindsight to look back, see what was taken well and not controversial, and streamline everything... yet they chose not too
#Ask Eck
At what point in galactic history did the Vong begin their long journey to the Star Wars galaxy?
I believe it was around 10,000 BBY but I might be wrong
@@Řẽțářď67 I was curious and looked it up, they never specified and if anything there's some info that contradicts each other. Around Revan's time some Mando's had a bad encounter with Vong scouts, but it's also mentioned that the Vong's oldest worldship wasn't even a thousand years old. Sadly, like a lot of EU stuff, too many writers making stuff happen. Don't get me wrong I preferred the EU personally, but I'm not blind to flaws either
@@IrishEyes1994regarding the oldest vong ship being a thousand years old that was because as they were organic they died and grew again or something like that along the way, but i might be wrong tho
One of the main reasons why the Vong and by extension the New Jedi Order were disliked wasn't because they were 'too edgy or too silly'. It was because they were very, well, 'anti-Star Wars' and is values and seemed like they were killing characters off just for the sake of killing them off. Anakin Solo shouldn't have died after all. Neither should have many of the characters from Young Jedi Knights. And many of the Del Rey editorial decisions seemed to have an outright contempt on the past, be it the Bantam era of books or even the movies themselves.
After all, Del Rey is the reason why the Star Wars EU was so unpopular at the end of the day after making Legacy of the Force (where Fate of the Jedi's fix-fic nature couldn't even fix) that the entire EU being rebooted with Disney may have been a good thing. Del Rey killed the EU.
Disney cant even tell a complete story
It's a smart idea it's not worth it. Most people don't really want it and most that do just want it so they can rage farm more
That's a question that most of us asked YEARS ago (when they went with the "New Trilogy" instead of the Vong and the Solo twins.
No Mara Jade, no proper Academy,, nothing.
No Darth Caedus -----
I might be the only one saying this but I hope so.
The Vong kind of came off as some 13-year-old’s edgy fanfiction Star Wars race (donut Steel) that needed stupidity from everyone involved as well as writer fiat to become a galactic threat even though they were overpowered as all hell. The writer even had to nerf them just to give the main cast a chance and they still weren't defeated but deus machina’d away at the end.
They'd more likely change them to the point of not even being the Vong as you know them anymore to make it fit into the Star Wars Cinematic Universe.
If I think they're hilarious, an average Star Wars audience would laugh any movie these Borg Zerg Mary Sues out of theaters .
Vector Prime is an insanely amazing book. It should be remade into the 7 episode - no less.
Maybe they should change the invading aliens.
The problem with the Vong is that they are R rated, imo. The book I read was pretty grisly, almost like a fanfic of Star Wars meets grimdark.
The Vong would interfere Disney's genius masterplan of keeping the Empire vs Rebellion war going for all eternity.
😂😂😂😂 I read this with the palpatine voice
I've always thought of the NJO as what happens after some Star Wars writers read Sam Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations/Jihad vs McWorld". After Fukuyama's "End of the Empire" ;)
I would be very happy without the Vong ever resurfacing in Star Wars.
Yes. I hope they do. They can’t even do Thrawn correctly.
lol, watching the short first few seconds of the video game u can see the turbo lasers " curve " after being shot lol
So at this point, after multiple disasters and hilariousness, we're still somehow expecting consistency and uniform direction in canon from Disney Star Wars? *shocked Ewok face*
The Vong being oitside of the Force is a grave misconception. Outside of the Force means outside of nature AKA dead. There were certain methods to actually sense yhe Vong, either through biological implants or connecting to certain objects. The Vong sort of existed on a different plane within the Force, ever since they were severed from their original living homeworld, Yuuzhan'tar.
I honestly love these kind of video. Being someone who never read any lengend-related stuff, I helps me understand things that I overheared here and there. Thanks for that Eck!
The vong could still fit in if they, perhaps did away with the no-force thing, perhaps instead making it so they have no force sensitives, or like only one or two in their entire population, and to make their primary aspect instead the hatred of technology.
Of course they will, just like they ignored Mara Jade. Or Luke's new approach for the Jedi Order. Or Han being a supporting and loving husband and father. Or Thrawn actually being a strategic genius instead of simply being referred to one. Or...
I've never liked the Vong for reasons I won't go into here (my headcanon for the EU timeline essentially ends at the Thrawn duology), so I wouldn't exactly be thrilled if they were reintroduced into the current canon. I do like the idea of an extra-galactic threat so existential and overwhelming that it forces the entirety of the Star Wars galaxy to band together and oppose it, I just wish it had been executed differently. That said, I do have to give LucasFilm execs credit for allowing such a radical narrative change that essentially changed the EU forever. That kind of creative risk taking is unheard of with Disney behind the helm.
Would you mind going into those reasons if someone asked? Because imo the Vong are some of the most interesting concepts ever introduced in Star Wars (I'm specially interested in their biotechnology).
i enjoyed the NJO and would be open to seeing the vong, with some tweaks, set up for rey's jedi. i was so sick of imperial warlords by the time vector prime came out!
Not sure Disney could do that level of body horror justice
The two species that the Yuuzhan Vong were caught between were the Silentium (Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu) and the Abominor (the only known member being the Great Heep from Star Wars: Droids)
I recently finished my re-read of NJO during the course of this year. I still love the series. Some of the best EU books (Star By Star & Traitor for example) appear in the series. There's no way Disney would let LucasFilm touch the Yuuzhan Vong as they were in the books. They are too dark and the version we'd get would be a watered down version for the worse, just like most things LucasFilm pulls from the EU to canon. The other thing I think do a live adaptation of the Yuuzhan Vong would be hard and expensive to do.
In short yes. But if they do it's because they are desperate. Disney has no more money to spend wastefully.
Disney’s profit. PROFIT for 2023 is estimated at almost $30B. They have money to waste
@@andrewbryant4259 they're wasting money on disney plus a 15 billion dollar waste. Just just blew over billion this year. Reckless spending doesn't bring in customers.
Just because films fail doesn’t mean the don’t make money from other avenues.
@@rexthewolf3149 they're not making that much in the parks and a news update disney got caught bribeing reedy creek officials. That's criminal charges right there.
The appealing part to me was that it wasn’t yet another “something, something dark side” story, but sort of a mix between ww2 japanese and islamic fundamentalists. Gave them an aspect of realism that “evil for the sake of being evil”- dark lords never had to me.
Disney seems a lot more interested in alienating the OG fans than appeasing them.
Self proclaimed "OG fans" / "lore masters" tend to be the loudest cry babies. Forget those losers.
idk why i never thought of it before now, but based off the picture of the Vong that was used for the thumbnail of this video, you could use the LEGO "hunter orc" figures from the Lord of the Rings (Hobbit?) sets as stand-ins for the Vong in LEGO Star Wars displays. they look damn similar. missing nose, greasy black hair, pointy ears, pale skin, orange eyes, spikey brown clothing.
The Vong remind me of something out of Star Trek
This is how I felt about the Vong as well.
Bio-borg basically
They reminded me of the Shadows from Babylon 5.
Short answer is YES. Long answer is in the video itself. If you reading this either before or during the video, then watch it! You already clicked on it, so why not watch it anyway! Author of this video would be glad if you watched it fully. Also comment, doesn't matter if alone or under mine, that definitly help his statistics on youtube.
No one currently employed by Disney even knows what this is. You assume too much.
I don't think you have to retcon the Vong's disconnection from the Force so much as simply tweak those comments to be a misinterpretation. Remember, in the Phase I-II canon, Thrawn discovered a species that was able to generate an anti-Force field around them. So what if Celestials of some form (perhaps the Mortis themselves) cursed the Vong with a similar field? They're not so much disconnected from the Force as masked from it. This could further be linked to not only their penchent for war, but their total dependence on organic tech - which, in itself, should be connected to the Force simply because it's alive.
If the Disney canon ever wants to be accepted as a viable alternatifve or replacement to the Lucas or Phase II canons (Phase I canon has a different Clone Wars and pre-Star Wars history, thus being partially retconned and replaced by Phase II when TPM came out), they HAVE to start respecting those two continuities. Phase II canon remains the most popular canon BECAUSE it makes the Lucas Canon (i.e. the Star Wars Saga only) its core and builds off of it.
This continued insistence that "there is no source material" while Filoni keeps trying to slip in bits of Phase II behind Kennedy's back has really harmed Disney Lucasfilm's attempts to create its own canon, and there are far more contradictions within Disney Canon than there ever were in Phase II. We do know the Vong were supposed to appear in the Clone Wars, and they may actually be Disney Lucasfilm's best chance of redeeming themselves.
Think about it. The Vong lost their ability to interact with the Force after creating an entire religion and society based around organic-only life. They turned to masochism, most likely as an attempt to seek forgiveness from their gods. But as the Vong fleet made its long journey between the galaxies, they forgot the nature of their sins or why they were doing the things they did. In so many ways, the Vong are a wonderful Star Wars parallel to Catholocism - so full of rites and rituals that have lost their meaning and a history that became completely sidetracked by the bloody events of the Crusades and Inquisition.
In Phase II, the Vong had a MASSIVE redemption arc that really fit in with Lucas's message. We need such a redemption arc in modern times, where religious strife between Muslims, Libertines, Christians, and Jews are at an all-time high. Seeing how the Vong are redeemed and learn to coexist with the Jedi while also learning how to sense the Force again and reconnecting with their gods would be a HUGE step in not only bringing fans together, but also in redeeming Disney's current and firm alignment with the Libertine religion and crusade against the very traditional belief and societal systems they once promoted.
#AskEck I’m rereading Legacy of the Force now which hits on Jacen’s flow walking. Jacen goes back to watch operation Knightfall and Anakin slaughtering the Jedi. Do you think there could have been a way for Jacen to affect/alter Anakin’s destiny(had he wanted to) if he had stayed long enough to commune with Anakin?
I'm pretty certain flow-walking explicitly does not allow for one to alter or commune with individuals if I recall. Only to observe and interact.
Don't think Flow Walking works that way as Jacen teaches Tahiri to do it and she tries and ultimately fails multiple times to alter Anakin Solo's destiny. Or at least that's how I remember it, haven't read Legacy since it was being printed
"Edgy" is really the defining word, you nailed it. They are very 90s edgelord, extreme, hyper-violent, etc. There is an excessively 90s design to them. While any era of Star Wars has always been of their time, most of it ages well. 1977 Star Wars doesn't have so much of the 70s baked into it to make it stand out in that way. Compare it to the Thrawn trilogy, which doesn't scream "80s!" This is also why Dark Empire doesn't fair so well.
Being in my twenties in the 90s, there were certain super edgy tropes you would see in all our media which immediately stood out as "extreme dark and edgy." A lot of it was popular, which is why it kept getting made...but a lot of it was abject failure. It was a response creatively sound art which it aped the ideas of without understanding the substance.
And it is something we still see today (Zach Snyder's take on Superman/Justice League comes to mind.) A lot of us saw it for what it was, and a lot of us loved it...and 20 years from now it will have aged so poorly, and nobody will want to draw from any of that part of the mythos at all.
The Vong are a terrible execution of some interesting ideas. They are clearly exploring some of the ideas that are worth exploring, and we saw it in Ahsoka.
They also don't even make sense. How are they simultaneously cut off from the force and making everything out of organic life?
#askEck
What ultimately brought about Jacen Solo's fall to the dark side? It seemed strange to me after what happened in the final book of the new jedi order.
Pride, arrogance, the idea that because he had been the first to consider new concepts about the Force he was suddenly above old fashioned ideas like "good" and "evil", not talking to any of his family for five whole years, delusions that what he was doing were necessary for the greater good.
A fundamental misreading of the NJO series post-Star by Star
I would argue he pulled a Revan during his travels to learn and master the Force. He learned so many esoteric powers in the process - hence the Revan comparison - but became convinced that there was no true difference between Light and Dark before Lumiya seduced him into the Sith by working from Vergere's existing teachings.
what david said, and also the fact that he had been tortured extensively by Vegere. That crazy bird lady broke him and he never really recovered. If luke had any sense he would have thrown him in a loony asylum after the war. But this is also the same guy who let the vong live in peace so you know
Add to all that whomever he saw on the Throne of Balance in the Pool of Knowledge.
when i saw the title my first guess was "what if it turns out the vong's name sounds similar to something like 'democracy now!" in chinese then disney would definitely have to avoid using them
#AskEck
I'd love to see a genuine analysis of Jacen Solo's fall in Dark Nest and LotF. Is it character assassination? Did Denning misunderstand the philosophy of Lucas and the NJO writers? Is it worse than TLJ Luke?
IMO Disney will probably do some cheap, worse, knock-off version of the Vong and rename it, kind of like the Dark Empire and the Sequels.
Years ago, i heard Chewbacca was killed off early on because of how hard the character is to write for in books. Cant remember the source so no idea if it's true.
Interesting, I think the death trooper book wrote Chewbacca pretty well but who knows
Yeah, they dropped a moon on poor Chewie...I mean that literally. At least he went out like a hero. I think he died saving Han and Leia's kids, if I remember correctly.
@@sterlingdennett i need to read that series
@@g00n71please do. New Jedi Order is amazing.
It builds on a lot of the rest of the EU post-endor, you will get a little more out of it if you read the catalogue, but it's still really good without it
I think they wanted to show just how serious the Vong invasion was and they needed to kill a massively popular character.
honestly... I'm okay with this. The Vong, while a cool and interesting concept, aren't quite "it". I like the idea of an extra galactic threat but the vong are just kinda super edgy bois straight out of Warhammer. Which is fine, I think Star Wars could always use a little Warhammer injected into it's DNA from time to time. But the Vong are a bit much imo
Star Wars needs a short series of things just kinda happening around the Galaxy and maybe a "What If" style show. the EU never shied away from more mature forms of violence so it's not like it wouldn't fit. It just needs to be kinda side conent
#AskEck: Do you think we will get or that there IS an explanation for the various magicks in Star Wars, (like obviously the nightsisters but also even less explored examples like Orphne and Rish Loo's Gungan magick) and do you have any personal thoughts on how these can stem from the force but not be directly connected?
thank god yes let's ignore that stuff. PLEASE
#AskEck: how would palpatine, with or without vader fared in the sith empire that was around during the old republic era, either as a regular sith lord or doing what he tried in the prequel trilogy (guessing this wouldn't work as well considering the era differences and the jedi even at this time being less hooked to the republic.)
Palpatine was so steeped in the rule of two it’s almost impossible to imagine him coordinating with other sith equals. He was all about dominating even his closest allies. Interesting topic, but ultimately I think either he kills all the other sith and forms his empire or they recognize the danger in him and kill him at a young age
palpatine would've overthrown whoever was in power. he'd murk exar kun or darth vitiate or whoever. he was the pinnacle of the rule of two and he was the product of 1000 years of knowledge and power. The old republic sith aren't that powerful, with a few exceptions. common misconception.
@@andrewbryant4259devil's advocate I wouldn't overlook that a palp who isn't a descendent of the rule of two wouldn't act as if he was
I bought every Star Wars Timothy Zahn Book for Christmas on the sales, already half way through Heir to the Empire and am Loving IT!!! 👍❤️
#AskEck: What are your thoughts on Operation Domino and how the Galactic Civil War would've gone if it was successful? I wish we could've gotten more lore about the "Secession Worlds" mentioned in The Essential Guide to Warfare that the Empire crushed early on.
Disney has ruined everything they touch. Why wouldn’t they ruin the Vong?
The Vong, were, without a doubt, my favorite bad guys. They were a terrifying threat that felt realistic, and evil. The jedi/sith conflict is the most tiring aspect of SW (at this time) as it felt like it had gone nowhere. It was the same tired tropes and nothing grew, nothing changed. The Vongs lack of the force/empathy forced EVERYONE to change. The jedi/sith's journey to growing as factions was interesting (as was the Republic actually getting off its ass to become a semi functioning govt). I still remember reading Vector Prime, and Chewie dying, it was shocking and for once i got the feeling, that the main characters werent safe and it really hammered home how bad these guys were (which made the story all the more interesting). It must be said that chewie went out like a boss, a true hero, saving Han's kids. Ill never forget that scene. All these things are probably examples as to why they wont come back, the current SW trend is not to push boundries, but do the bland crap they know will sell toys.
Except that the toys aren't even selling.
This was my main concern in Disney if they did the new movies with the bong story line the fan base would have ignored a lot of the pandering