Understanding Time After Time
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
- I have a surprising number of thoughts.
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What makes a great love song? Time After Time has been covered so many times that it's easy to forget there was an original, but before it became a cultural standard, it was a simple last-minute addition to Cyndi Lauper's debut album, She's So Unusual. Even at the time, she and her cowriter Rob Hyman knew they had something special, and they treated the process of writing this song with a level of reverence and care that comes through in every aspect of the final production, from its hauntingly simple melody to its hollow, ticking groove. It's a timeless classic that transcends its origins while remaining intrinsically tied to them. So let's talk about it!
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Some additional thoughts/corrections:
1) You may have noticed the staff paper is different in this video! That's because I'm testing out a new merch item. It should be available soon, and I'll have a full announcement then, but figured I'd at least mention it here.
2) Honestly there's a lot to say about Bazilian's part specifically that wound up getting cut from this video because it didn't really serve the broader structure of the story I was telling, but I did want to give credit where it's due. He's doing a lot of subtle things throughout to the song to fill just enough space that the track never gets boring.
3) I said the bass was played on a Prophet-V, but to be a little more precise, Wittman says he wasn't exactly sure if it was a Prophet-V or another patch on the Memory Moog. He thinks it was a Prophet, though, so I went with that 'cause it was the most definitive source I could find.
4) Another interesting thing about the chorus vocals is that Lauper and Hyman start each line harmonizing in perfect 4ths and 5ths, but then near the end, that slips into 3rds, giving the final words a more colorful tone. The effect isn't huge, partly due to the blending thing I talked about, but it's there and I think it's cool.
So you said the progession (at least in the intro) was F G Em F, but if you replaced the second F with Am you (almost- except for the bass, that is) get the progression in Never Gonna Give You Up!
Moog rhymes with rogue.
Please cover " hole in my heart that goes all the way to china" ... it's a great Cyndi Lauper song so so so underrated
Miles Davis considered this to be one of the best pop songs ever, and in his later career he almost always did a cover of it during his concerts.
Well, he did record the song not long after Cyndi's version was released. It first appears on Davis's 1985 album, "You're Under Arrest" (Davis's recording sessions began in January of 1984 and ended a year later, and Cyndi's version began its chart run in late March of 1984).
Jazz elitists: Nooo pop music is trash!
Miles Davis: Anyway, here's Time After Time
@@bj.bruner Yeah, at the time in 1985 I was at university and lived in a shared flat with a 'Jazz is the only real music' jazz elitist guy, who never listened to pop/rock music.
I was bassplayer in a rock band with a great female singer and we decided to play this song. One day the singer, guitarplayer and me rehearsing it in my room and he later came in saying 'oh this crappy pop singer Cindy Lauper shamelessly copied the song from Miles Davis'. When I showed him the credits on 'You're Under Arrest' he still was 'that can't be, impossible, impossible ...'. He was totally destroyed when he learned that 'Human Nature' is a Michael Jackson song, written by Steve Porcaro.
You can imagine, we made a lot of fun of him for months.
@@dalrok Haha I was like that but with rock; I wouldn't listen to anything past 2000. I've gladly changed my tune since then (pun totally intended)
@@dalrok I can imagine him gripping his hair with both hands while wearing a look of devastation right before he falls to his knees and yells “NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!” while looking towards the sky. His whole world was shattered with those revelations.
19:49 _"...which makes them feel less like a single person and more like a conversation"_ (draws Gollum). No, stop... I can't breathe.... 😂😂😂😂
Time after time is one of the greatest pop songs ever written.
I am more of an old school rock/folk guy and lots of people get surprised when I start playing this song in the middle of some Bob Dylan classics. It is one of my all time favourites. I often hear "I never thought you'd play that".
Honestly, it is simply an astonishing great song.
And now I kind of want "True Colors" as a follow up.
It's an amazing song, but I get the feeling there's less to say about True Colors. A lot of it in my mind is bombastic vocals.
@@pjgoldstein6562 Bombastic? They almost collapse into themselves.
The cabasa sample always sounded like a ticking stopwatch to me(as you mentioned, too fast to be a clock). Listen to that intro, and then listen to, say, the intro to the 60 Minutes tv show and you'll hear what I mean.
YES! 🙆🏻♂️⏱️
I think about my parents when I hear this song. They were married for 45 years until my father died of cancer in April, and now the song has a whole new meaning to me.
Sorry for your loss. My condolences to your Mom.
Sorry for your loss
honey get up, 12 tone uploaded (i literally got out of bed for this)
SAME!!!
Upvoted faster than any before
Me getting excited thinking it was gonna be Ozzy. Then realizing, oh, yeah the other one
20:17 "...and Hyman responds by calmly holding his line until she finds her way back. It's a really beautiful moment."
Not gonna lie, this part of the analysis left me teary-eyed.
The bit where that initial chord progression doesn't feel like F is so fascinating. I wonder if another thing that helps that is the B-natural taking the progression out of F Ionian.
The kick drum is also the linn drum machine. afaik the whole track is purely just the linn. My personal favorite detail of this song is the very end when she hesitates finishing “time after-“ for the last repeat, with one ever so soft “time” just as the song fades to silence. Gives me chills every time, as does her theramin-like vocal outro on All Through The Night.
I never really gave this song much thought concerning its content and construction. But that's what I love about this channel: it makes me see even familiar music in a different way, and that's always good
"The bass is the star" That's probably because originally the bass was all there was. The story goes that Cyndi Lauper's bass player was jamming by himself, and Cyndi overheard him and joined in, and that's how the song originated.
I assume it's the same bass player you mentioned; my source just says "her bass player" and not his name.
Cyndi lauper is underrated
Cyndi lauper is so that girl
I agree ! I just saw youtube vid of studio recording of ”we are the world”. She just nails it. Amazing. She gets bored and starts improvising while some other stars are struggling with their part.
Money Changes Everything is a banger
Not just musically. A musician friend introduced me to Lauper backstage at a show in Chicago around 2011. she is one of the nicest people whom I've ever met (and very modest and down to earth).
No. In no universe, and at no point in time, was she ever.
An absolutely incredible song fundamentally (chord changes, melody and lyrics), but what takes it over the top is the arrangement. There are hooks all over the place.
Live... Cyndi often just does this with just dulcimer. It's powerful. 😌
Even back in my metal and prog focused youth (I still listen to that stuff, but I listen to other things too now) I knew this was qite special, but I did always secretly enjoy a really good piece of pop too, and this is one of the finest.
Even as a kid I new this song was special. It feels like we don't get songs like this anymore. But the truth is that songs as good as this are rare and on average there are only a few every year.
Thanks for sharing a new prospective of this song with me. ❤
when a song is in a major key and it avoids playing the tonic chord, it can often feel (to me) more like it's in the relative minor key, especially if it has that IV V motion and at least one minor chord.
To me, this song is about thinking of that relationship that never quite works but you just are drawn to each other several times over the years.
The fact that it goes IV-V-iii-IV I think is intentional cause you’re wanting it to resolve, but it just loops back to the IV, with no clear resolution but to repeat the loop again, all this is with the main voice doing the tonic at the end also wanting it to resolve but it goes back to the IV. This is Cyndi reliving those memories of that relationship that never ends fully. They keep playing in a loop.
When it resolves to the I for the verses, it’s Cyndi popping into a particular memory to show how it starts out well. The phrases here are happy ones that go from the 1 to the 3 note in an uplifting phrase, like a new relationship. Then, things start to get out of sync relationship-wise. When he says, “go slow,” as an example, it changes back to that same IV-V-iii-IV phrase and the cracks show in the relationship. It gets stuck back in that loop while they go back to the tonic for the chorus to proclaim to each other they will always have a happy space (the tonic, when singing “time after time”) for each other in their hearts even though things always seem to go bad in reality.
It’s what keeps the song timeless and able to be replayed, because it’s got that loop of wistful nostalgia of something you like that never resolves quite right baked into it at the beginning.
Please edit your post to get the chord progression corrected. Your post repeatedly shows an out of key Major Superdominant (aka Submediant, VI chord) while what you mean is the Subdominant (IV) chord. As your post is otherwise quite good and well written, it's a shame to have it be marred by a repeated typo in the chord progression. Please?
- sj
@@slickjack2618 thank you for catching that.
Corrected, thanks @slickjack2618
@@EAS76 It's the "aged pedant" in me breaking free from the constraints I normally place around it while reading UA-cam posts.
Really, your post was quite good, with insights into the lyric choices and the harmonic changes that are related to those changes in the lyrics that just seemed to cry out for a correction in the chord progressions.
- sj
@@slickjack2618 Ha, I do that too. Too bad I forget to check my own stuff before posting.
For some reason, when I hear Time After Time, I'm immediately reminded of Live to Tell by Madonna. (And vice versa) I hope some day 12tone has a reason to talk about that beautiful song too.
Yes… Live to Tell is a masterpiece. I was mostly into hard rock and metal at the time, having recently started playing guitar, but would totally jam out to that song when it came on.
Valid criticism is valid because it is executed as art. After watching your posts on and off over the past few years, it struck me to subscribe. Thanks.
I had the 12 Deadly Cyns video tape with music videos and behind the scenes and Time After Time was on there. So beautiful. Thank you for this video!
I like the interpretation that instead of being a song about lovers, it's a song about a parent and child. The lyrics hit different listening that way and it takes on a completely new meaning.
That’s the great thing about any type of art. The meaning can be personal and can even change while experiencing the same art.
Ivanka Trump and Ashley Biden be like: 😟😭😟
Remember the Southpark where the kids wanted to start a Christian band so they just took love songs and made them about Jesus 😂😂😂😊
Same for Dylan’s “feel my love”. I think it’s written about romantic love but it hit different after I had a child.
That album is all killer no filler.
Seeing him represent "another thing we haven't seen in this context" with the drawing of a water bear prompted me to go on Google and stare at random photos of water bears for ten minutes. This might seem obvious, but they're not actually bears. Nature is pretty weird sometimes. Oh, and great analysis of "Time After Time."
I honestly cannot think of anything better than that tardigrade to illustrate the idea of something we've never seen before in this context.
love the Black Lotus as a "starting point" great reference
I hear the kick pattern as a heartbeat. Surprised that wasn't in the symbolism of the percussion section. Maybe that's just me though.
I’ve always felt that way too.
Same!
Bingo. It's a heartbeat riding along with the passage of time.
I bought the album "She's So Unusual" when this song came out on radio and listened to this song incessantly. Thank you for this analysis!
This is one of those songs i heard way too much as a kid and got annoyed by. Then i started choosing my own music and didnt hear it for a few years until finally in my late teens i heard it again and realized "oh wait, this was always good. This is something really special, even."
You should do Good Riddance(Time of Your Life) in one of your next videos!
I have a feeling he already did it, but im not sure
@@pedrohenriquecanciamsantar2044they did Boulevard of Broken Dreams awhile ago but I dont think they ever did a video about Good Riddance, unless it was either deleted or included as a section of a more general video.
Don't get me wrong, I like the song, but how is it worth a video? I can't name something that could stand out from it.
She wrote a memoir, and the cover is a pic of her as a young, bratty-looking teenager. So deceptive because my gut reaction was "what does this kid have to teach me?", but after reading it learned that, like this song, there is a lot of substance to her.
Live... Cyndi almost always goes back to one of these hauntingly poetic lines...
One... "I've got a, suitcase of, memories I've, almost left behind... Time after time..."
Or...
Two... "You said to, go slow but, I fall behind... Time after time..."
Thank you for your Videos!!! I adore music and this helps me to understand the beauty im hearing. Also i love your drawings ^^
It's one of two of her songs that break my heart,the other is True Colors.💘💘💘
Outstanding job! I thought I knew the song well, but that was very enlightening.
This song makes me cry every time thinking about the dancing scene in the Rugrats movie.
Super excited about this!
Love the content. Love to see you break down pictures of you by the cure.
I have absolutely no clue about music theory, and it's a subject that doesn't *interest* me enough for even a cursory overview. But because you explain the results of the the theory (how each choice changes the "feel"), I get a better understanding of some of my favourite songs and (even though I'm already in awe of those people who have spent the time to master their art) I find myself even more impressed at the thought behind the pretty tunes.
Thank you. ❤️
(Oh, and for the kick drum, I always thought it was representing a heartbeat rather than time. As you said, something so simple providing so much scope... 😉)
A new 12Tone and a new Pat Finnerty video on the same day! Merry Christmas to me!
Ahhh, a fellow Billy Joel purist
"would this ruin the song" while drawing Scappy Doo. ROTFLMAO. Perfect.
If Miles Davis covers your song, it must be good...
I love this song!
I will be waiting!
I did not expect to see Aunt Dirt at 13:12 but I agree; she is a very important addition.
This song holds a special place in my heart. I was 15 when it came out, and this was _the_ song of my first true love.
Can you do an analysis of Kashmir by Led Zeppelin?
I love your Nisse drawing!
2:00 Did you just draw River Surges in Sunlight?!
You have excellent taste in board games. 😁
I'd totally buy a poster of one of the fully annotated pages you draw in your videos if you sold them!
One of the greatest songs of all time, pop or otherwise, frankly.
Thanks man, great breakdown. Like about a million other couples out there this is my wife's and my song.
I first heard this song in the 2000s from a band called Quietdrive - I didn't even realize it was a cover at the time. Still an absolutely gorgeous song, definitely a testament to the value of simplicity!
whenever I hear that very sparce base drum pattern the rhythm sort of (while listening to the song) in my ears slowly morph into the feeling of a slow resting heart beat. Something about that captures to me that same described feeling of being there.
This analysis made me tear up for some reason
One of my favorite songs (and go-to karaoke songs)!
Nice. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Cemetery Gates.
It also happened to be her Birthday when you published this video.
I would never have guessed this song is in a Major key
"There's not much voice leading and the chord functions don't make a lot of sense." Yes, there's not much voice leading, but the chord functions are COMPLETELY standard. This is the back half of a circle of fifths progression, IV - viio - iii - vi - ii - V - I, except the viio has been turned into a V, which is basically the same chord, just with a different sound, and the vi has been turned into a IV, which is extremely common as well. IV - V - iii - vi is also the Traditional 80's Intro -- see Never Gonna Give You Up for the most obvious example. Changing the vi into a IV doesn't change this very much. It's also not hiding the key. The F, G, and Em triads together make up the entire C major scale and, in that order, are very characteristic of major-mode music, and that particular combination of functions doesn't make sense in A minor (the Em would have been an E7 in this progression, but even then I think it would sound like a V7/vi in C more than a V7 in Am). This is standard run-of-the-mill C major with no tricks.
It may tell a timeless story in a timeless way but if you look at just the timbre selection of the song it remains extremely 80s forever 😊
3:27 the video got possessed
Great video, for a second i though this is gonna a be about time after time of chat Baker, one of my favorites songs, but i guess this ain't bad
Please do a video on a Scritti Politti song! Ideally 'Don't Work That Hard'.
Any Scritti Politti song will do.
@@GordonPavilion For sure. Lots of love for the punk/postpunk early days, but the pop is where it's at for me. A breakdown of the intricate drum sequencing on either of the 1st 2 albums would be neat.
Not sure if actually call it “simple”. There are a lot of subtle changes and little shifts, like the key ambiguity or hypermeter change. Those totally make the song but would make learning it properly quite challenging. It’s not able to be boxed out easily.
An absolute gem of pop songwriting.
I always heard the intro as a double deceptive cadence: IV - V seems as if it leads to I, but no, we are heading for the minor parallel by hearing its (minor) dominant iii. But, while IV - V - iii - vi would be a perfectly sound, almost classical cadence, it gets deceptive again with iii leading to the submediant of a-minor, i.e. IV.
I also love the cover by Iron and Wine. It’s just one male voice and an acoustic guitar, part of it was used in a McDonald’s ad.
Just watched over on Nebula. Excellent content. The song is beautiful because it's good. And simple.
Can you give a breakdown of some technical death metal, like Necrophagist or The Faceless? I know it's not up your alley but I would love to hear the technical analysis of tech death lol
I absolutely LOVE this song, and there's something about the effects on the guitar that give me a hazy late summer night feel. Similar to that of the sound and feel I get from the guitar on Hysteria by Def Leppard, the phase-y, synth-y sort of dynamic it has. I wish I knew more about guitar tone and sound design (I'm just a drummer XD). But altogether, it's simple and beautiful. I listen to this one around the camp fire often. Awesome break down and analysis.
It is a great guitar tone, sounds like a single-coil guitar (strat) into a not-very-subtle stereo chorus/flange with a high depth and a slow rate. Apparently the original unit used on the recording is rack mounted and rare (Publison DHM B2), but that kind of guitar sound was ubiquitous the 80s, largely due to the Roland JC-120 amp and CE-1 chorus pedal being extremely popular at the time and using the same circuit for the chorus effect.
@@claris108 FLANGE! Thank you, I could not think of the right word for the life of me 🤘
I had to stop and laugh for a second because the isolated harmony vocal line sounded like Jimmy Fallon's rock dude impersonation 😅
Would love to see a reading on aespa. A relatively new kpop group that has some weird songs.
rob hyman of the hooters mentioned 🗣️🗣️🗣️
🔥🔥🔥
Triple one do the most amazing cover.
wholeheartedly went in thinking it would be time after time by REM,, was wholeheartedly wrong and happy about it
Please do 1979 by Smashing Pumpkins
good video
3:14 tontu the beloved
I always loved this song but then i saw sf debris make an amv to it with madoka magica clips and damn it makes me cry now
Time After Time is practically perfect as is. Any added bells and whistles would have just subtracted from it.
Thanks for making me look that up that Cadential 6/4 coming from Violin my chord theory lacks. That does sound smooth.. G6/4 to G... Thanks.
It was always so weird to me that this song and Girls Just Want to Have Fun were by the same person and came from the same album.
yayyy
Hey 12tone! How about Time after Time by Dr. Sin? It's a brazilian power trio you might like :)
Love your videos dude. Ok, but something just hit me and maybe I just haven't been around here long enough. How are you recording the drawing? In your intro you are writing right handed. It appears you are writing left handed in the narrative. But, you are writing words from end to start? WTF IS GOING ON!!!!
I don't know for sure but I suspect the pen is just a prop and all the drawings are done digitally
I don't know why I watch these videos. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I find it interesting anyways. I also don't think most of the artists put as much thought into their songs as you do.
I think artists “may not put as much thought” into their songs because they may not know the theory, but they get the feel that certain chord combinations, percussion, bass lines, etc. can give. 12 tone is great at showing you exactly why things do what they are doing and give the feelings they give because he can read the background language the theory gives. It’s just two ways of looking at the same thing.
Technically, the song isn't in C.
It is in F Lydian.
She was underestimated,
I just learned something new about Tina Belcher
Now do the other Time after Time, the one by Sammy Cahn and Jule Styne.
Lauds the simplicity of the song, then proceeds to explain why it's not so simple.
Elephants all the way down!
This is not what I expected from Time after time
Randy’s breakup song (For those who get that reference.)
Alcoves, alcoves is that the word you were searching for?
Anyone else think of Napoleon Dynamite with this song?
You would love the musicality of Steven Universe. It’s honestly beautiful music.
Why does the Motorik beat sound new wave?
Hey would you consider doing a roundabout analysis I’m broke or I would donate to the patreon and all that but I’ve been a long time viewer and I feel that song would do well
I keep hearing Seth MacFarlane singing this as Stewie Griffin