@@TorchyThePyro "Baklava is a layered pastry dessert made of filo pastry, filled with chopped nuts, and sweetened with syrup or honey. It was one of the most popular sweet pastries of Ottoman cuisine." TIL the Ottoman empire is greek.
If I may make a suggestion, I think too many people focus on projectile impacts that are normal to the strike face. I would be curious to see how both types of plates react when struck at 45°. If the target had his arms up in a c-clamp grip, with a projectile essentially ride the strike face and end up in his brachial artery? NIJ standard is for perpendicular impacts, but I think that spec is do for some updating. For science.
@@AdministrativeResults Note that for the steel plates, the spawling will probably come into play. It's an extra 50-75 "addon" that is critical to plates protecting you from the shrapnel. The angle I'm worried about is it nailing me in the chin or the toe/knee.
When I first started in law enforcement in the late 1980's, all soft body armor came with a steel "trauma plate" that went in the middle of the front the carrier and was supposed to help protect your sternum. They stopped using the steel plate in the early nineties due to the spall from hitting the steel plate causing injuries. Most vests now come with an pocket to add an extra layer of soft armor to help protect the sternum. I had a guy punch me in the chest while wearing one of the steel plate inserts. He broke his hand.
Ah, I remember those steel trauma plates. And yup, they did away with that approach. I was down in the warehouse one day and there were crates full of old steel trauma plates. I asked if I could take one, they said sure. I ended up putting it in my new issue vest.....so it was a kevlar vest with a steel trauma plate, and a kevlar trauma plate on top of that. The theory was that if something went through the outer kevlar trauma plate, it would strike the steel and get stopped cold.....and any deflection or Spalding would be minimized by the outer kevlar plate. I dont know if our logic was sound.....but that's how we felt in the late 1990s , early 2000s.....and in the last year or 2, steel trauma plates are making a comeback.
Why i wear ceramic and if i can find one, will wear a softbody carrier. I just dont like softbody cause it only protects against small pistols and when you do get shot its ganna break bones. Ceramic plates will stop basically any gun 99% of civilians own, absorbs energy by fracturing AND spreads that lessened energy over the entire area of the plate (No bruises/Broken bones). Ceramic plates should be standard everywhere and are in militaries. If we can combine ceramics with polymerization we could create iron man type armor where its movable yet brittle and hard as diamond.
I would ask , how many rounds did the steel take before the spall started to escape from the plate, and how many rounds did the ceramic take before penatrating THROUGH the plate. from what I could count the steel held up to more rounds before spalling started to leak out as opposed to the ceramic being PENATRATED by fewer rounds. From what I have observed before steel had the spall coatings applied it was definitely very dangerous. When they started applying the anti spalling coatings that seems to have changed the calculation of how well it performs against ceramic. Ceramics have anti spall coatings applied to them because they cause spall as well. I have seen testing done where a steel plate with the built up coating, inserted into a light weight Kevlar sleeve survive many more hits before allowing spall to escape. From my understanding, if ceramic gets shot once it needs to be retired, the military has both the money and the logistics to replace them quickly. As a civilian with limited funds it's not quite as easy. The only advantage I see to the ceramic is the capability to stop a 30.06 black tip armor piercing round, let's be honest , what are the chances of a military serviceman facing that threat as opposed to a civilian. I'm NOT a expert for sure, these are just observations, so if someone with more expertise could point out what I'm missing please do so ( I'm not being a smart ass I really mean it) I would like to make logical informed decisions before spending money.
Remember bros, whether you have steel or ceramic, the best defense is evasion. Armor is only there to give your medic a chance at saving you when you do get lit up.
Sounds nice, having alot of mobility is nice. Not so much for people who are not as mobile as you... ever had to suffer through fire to get interest out of a red zone, to move support though bombed out areas on foot? Just trying to get people not nearly as hardened as you through the blood muck and shit? Trust me you would hate not having that heavy ass armor more than the slow fucking civilian that is actually making a difference.
Heros are just assholes who take fire for the people doing real work... Your mobility means jack shit if you can't take punishment for the people around you.
Yes, and no. generally speaking, of the 40% hitrate of your torso, the plate protects... hmm. Maybe 50%? Like, you can fit another plate on your torso, about, and still not quite get coverage, but that's if you define torso as being abdominal and pelvic... Bygones! [] an armor plate covers the vitals. *You will NOT DIE unless you suffer MAJOR ARTERIAL WOUNDS and even then you have enough blood in the body to stay up and combat capable for at least 45 seconds.* The FBI found that having your heart obliterated is still 10-15 sec combat effective due to blood circulating, you will live with a puny little graze or GSW through nothing important. [] rifle class hard armor *will keep you up.* Against centerfire rifle threats, the deformation effect has a very low chance of ever taking you down, and it basically can't kill you unless you're comically unlucky. Unless you bought your ceramic plate from Fujian, China, or something. I can't speak for steel, it MIGHT be worse? [] If you don't get T-zoned or CNS'ed, and you have the mental fortitude, even a skinny little teenage girl from nowhereston USA can tank surprising amounts of damage. What really gets you in the end is pain, and the ability to handle, or not handle it.
@@KoishiVibin First back deformation on a plate is extremely important, it manages to break ribs and push them into the lungs. No lungs no air, 45 seconds until you drown in your own blood is a mercy killing at best. Second alot of people are using swimming cuts lately and it does effect coverage, considerably. Special ops and bare roll cages are super cool but don't have any kinda place in rough attrition. You have to move civilians from point a to point b without vehicles and they are carrying maybe 100 pounds each in food and medicine? What would you do? For every one of them killed 20 people will starve. So any percentage to get the real damn heros through the line at the cost of your own comfort because of reduced weight plates assuming you can get more after they are all jacked up because of dynamic motion is the difference between life and death of hundreds, nay thousands of people.
I'm at work so I'm gonna have to watch the video later, just stopping by to say I love you and none of the people on Epstein's client list have been arrested yet
I walk away from this with a greater respect for steel honestly. Here’s what I see ceramic has to offer. Higher single shot threat capability, lighter weight, zero or minimal spalling, maybe a more comfortable profile since it’s a bit thicker than a steel plate. Here’s what I see steel having to offer. Higher multi shot capabilities, massive shelf life, easy to produce and therefore rather inexpensive. But here’s my main issue. While the ceramic plate had zero spalling, it did have a catastrophic failure in that it let a common cartridge (despite the 20 inch barrel [77gr which is slower anyway]) pass clean through which would mortally wound you. A deep laceration or even frag stuck in your facial tissue or neck is brutal but without medical help a gut shot is a death sentence. In SHTF all ceramic plates would also be worthless 5 years down the road because they’d expire. Everyone will be running around with steel, just a note. I think a steel plate with a build up and spall sleeve is the best option. It’s not unrealistic for a swat guy to kick down a door and get hit 3-4 times in the chest with a pistol followed by a common rifle. In that decimal of a chance, he’d suffer a wound he wouldn’t have suffered with steel. Obviously he wouldn’t want to expose himself, but again, shit happens. I think hating steel is the new dig. But weight (despite the difference being fairly drastic in some cases) aside, a build up coated multi curve III+ lightweight plate with a spall sleeve actually seems like it would perform better in virtually every way than a ceramic plate and cost half the price most often. Higher multi hit protection, zero or minimal frag, better value and pricing, long shelf life, and at the very least possible to make on your own. If there’s anything I may be overlooking I’d love to know
I actually love steel in a lot of applications, it’s a tool and different tools work for different jobs. One more consideration though: bouyancy. If you live on or near water, or conduct/plan to conduct any maritime type operations, steel is about the worst thing you can pick. Poly will help keep you from drowning furiously if you were to fall in the water. Just a thought.
@@eddietonore2813 That’s a phenomenal outlook and something I failed to consider. I’m very glad you brought that up because even in non military applications sometimes you might have to cross a river and 20+lbs of steel that is very negatively buoyant would make a huge difference. Add another tally to the ceramic/poly score my friend
@@thecolossalwang2308 Ceramic plates are not at all buoyant either. You will still sink like a brick if you fall into water with ceramic plates on. So ceramic and steel are both equally bad in that regard. The only option with buoyancy is poly plates, which are otherwise similar to ceramic but outrageously expensive.
Something else to note is durability. Ceramic breaks down in extreme heat or cold (not even super extreme, just like below 30 or above 90 degrees) and can crack if it takes a hard impact. Steel has neither of these drawbacks. You can toss a plate carrier with steel plates in the trunk of your car and leave it in there for 10 years, through 110 degree summers and -10 degree winters, and it’s still going to perform. With ceramic you might just get thumped in the chest by a baseball bat and lose the integrity of your armor. Or be forced to expose it to extreme heat or cold for a week... and lose the integrity of your armor. Steel beats ceramic in every way that matters with the exception of spalling, which can be reasonably mitigated with a good coating of anti-spall.
Someone needs to do this test with a carrier with ALL the doodads, doohikies and battle rattle attached. Loaded rifle and pistol mags, I phone, peanut chews and all strapped to it. Watch the pieces fly regardless of what plate you have.
The only problem with these types of tests is the same plate is used over and over again. After getting hit with the first 5 rounds the coating is getting compromised and thus will fail more easily. For a real test of the spalling capture is to use a new plate each time for each caliber round. Then keep track of how many rounds it takes for the coating to start failing. Now this is only for the coating capabilities, not the plate itself.
I agree. It's actually a testament to the strength of metal plates that they can take so many rounds before failing. As you've said it should be a new plate every time but that would up the cost significantly of this type of testing.
I dont think it is, the whole point of steel plates is they're supposed to take more hits than ceramic. If the anti spall coating only lasts 4-5 rounds its effectively the same durability as ceramic but heavier and less consistent at preventing spall.
@@reposter6434 Not really, you can get a set of hesco l210s or 4400s for a couple hundred more than a set of ar500s. If $2-300 on a one time purchase is a deal breaker then you should probably re evaluate your priorities.
@@reposter6434 bending and coating the steel is the expensive part. I make shooter cut plates from US wear plate that can handle a shitload of strikes for about $40. We use one plate for a target that has taken upwards of 200 strikes, pistol and crappy rifle ammo.
Watch Buffman for more thorough but less theatrical testing. I am not at all using 'theatrical' a pejorative. Theatrical is a good thing when not used to describe your significant other.
For extracting your shrapnel fragments, you might want some hemostats (sometimes more commonly called clamps, long slender alligator gripping surgical tool that locks on the back). Super handy for a wide variety of things and absolutely a dream for extracting just about anything from a tight space, in whatever medium you want.
@AldoSchmedack Now I just want to see ya'lls medic kits. I do the standard break down: -Trauma(standard kit for arterial bleeds with onehand tourniquets and clamps) -Bleed (packing and compression) -Ortho(Sam splints etc for stabalization) -Airway Medicine/oxygen kits excluded unless called for
@QuestionableConcepts , I'm still working on building mine, but my wife is an ER nurse and is helping me. She can also get some of the harder to find goodies.
@QuestionableConcepts , yeah, it's really weird. Some stuff she's able to "acquire" just isn't available in stores that I've seen. I don't know why. Maybe there's just not enough public sector demand to justify the cost of trying to sell something almost no one knows how to really use? I have no idea. The stuff doesn't seem terribly complicated, so I'm not sure why it's so annoying to get ahold of.
Steel spauling is similar to issues they experienced in the bow and arrow days. Back then the added small ramps or flaring at the edges of the breast plate to divert arrows away from the neck and head. I wonder why thats not been tried in modern times
Spalling is negated by the coating and the plate carrier itself… there’s dozens of incidents online of guys in Ukraine and the Middle East using steel plates effectively
@@thalesofmiletus6162 The steel wouldn't be perfectly flat, and as he said the head wouldn't be where it was in this video. There are videos showing how bad spall of an AR500 plate can be and it's terrifying. We should also add that steel plates are incredibly heavy, and that depending on what you are likely to encounter you can choose between lightweight special threat plates or work your way up to some heavier ceramic level 4 plates which I have seen range from 6-8lbs per plate. The AR 500 plates start at 8 and go up to 9.5lbs if you choose the thick coating. Then of course you have poly plates that can stop M80 and M193, and I bet you can find some that are rated higher than lvl 3 that would take M855A1. These plates are light, and help you maintain mobility which is key to staying alive.
For me it’s the durability and longevity of the steel that wins in the end. A 20 year steel plate protects just as good as a 5 year ceramic, just for 15 more years. The spalling thing was interesting as well. Definitely important to switch plates out after taking rounds. But one thing I have heard first hand from an operator: no matter the material it’s made of, you take a hit to the plates, you’re going down. Just some plates have a better chance of not breaking a bone on the other side than others.
Ceramics dont expire after 5 years, manufacturers have a warranty period of 5-15 years. This is not an expiration date. Modern ceramics are made of inert materials that do not expire unless you are letting it sit in a bucket of sweat at high temperatures for prolonged periods of time.
Don't hurt yourself Pauly. Even after a bullet or two you can get very bad spalling. The worst point of steel armor is when you get penetrated, the bullet will throw all that steel it blasted through into you. Steel also doesn't absorb shock like ceramic does, leading you to getting thrown to the floor and breaking a rib.
Steel will direct the force outward if it is curved. most ceramic armor will actually cave in and have lots of backface deformation and can cave in your lungs. no armor is going to feel good when you get hit but I'd rather fall over than have my lungs collapse.
@@patrickhenderson488 no what will happen is that the impact will cause the other side of the plate to spall and ceramic armor absorbs the energy of the impact so you won't get your lungs fucked up.
@@patrickhenderson488 modern ceramic armor has strict BFD standards. Any bfd less than 44mm should cause minimal damage while most credible manufacturers go for less than 15mm of BFD. Steel doesnt transfer the energy outwards, it directly transfers through it.
I haven't seen any steel armor manufacturer incorporate a steel "rim" along the edges of a plate and runs flush with the bed liner coating (whatever they call it). In theory, the "rim" may at least stop or deflect bullet fragments away from the wearer's limbs, neck, and face.
For me, what this test brings to mind are automotive crash tests when comparing 1950s cars to modern day vehicles. Those highway boats would absolutely HOUSE 40-50 mph crashes and only need some paint touch up, yet the same speed crashes for modern cars look like a T-rex chewed it up. The result I care about is what happens to the people inside the car, not the car itself. Ceramic plate technology mimics the principles of the "crumple zone", whereas steel achieves ballistic "protection" via sheer hardness, i.e. Abrasion Resistance 500. The ceramic protection comes out looking messed up, but helps keep the person behind it safe.
My concern is the steel did keep the bullets out of the wearer after extended shots where the ceramic caved and was penetrated. I could see if I'm in a situation where I'm not gonna have access to plates other than what I'm wearing and in an extended fire fight, steel might be preferred
@@ben10mama I've yet to see a level 3/3+ steel plate show as much back deformation as a ceramic plate that has been compromised. also imagine buying ceramic plates 4-5 years prior to a SHTF scenario, and you can't have Fedex ship you a new pair. this is why I own steel. little bit of weight training to make those extra 5-8 pounds disappear. spall covers. and you're set for decades. my neighbor has had an ar500 3/8"x8" circle he's shot at since 92 and it hasn't cracked or shown any signs of it being compromised, after being shot thousands and thousands of times.
I was shot in ceramic when i served over seas and spauling occurs regardless of the type of plate. I would also like to see people test armor how it is supposed to be used. NIJ level 3 is intended for 4-5 hits of 7.62 max..most other armors to include NIJ level 4 is rated for one hit of 30-06AP max. Too many "armor tests" take the stance of lets take one plate and throw 40rnds at it and then go "oh my god the spauling killed him and the plate didnt last." Armor is a just in case, even in the service we swapped plates every patrol whether we took a hit or not, and relied on tactics and cover. Armor of any type will get the layman weekend warrior killed without education and training, especially with these types of "testing". As entertainment its fine but please people learn before you rely on UA-cam for your education.
Civilians aren’t very smart for that bro. We never switched out our SAPI plates unless someone got hit. Your putting too much faith into civilians intelligence regarding real world firearm usage
I find it extremely weird that you swapped SAPI every patrol. I say that cuz we would patrol outside the wire for days on end, in which we would NEVER carry additional SAPI plates with us cuz that would be extremely dumb lmao
@@TheInfantry98 We never carried extra SAPI outside the fence..but once we got back from a route we did swap plates when we saw S3 for resupply...only time we did have extra off FOB was when in convoy to another location...medical unit so we were rather well supplied at all times
The Guard Dog Spall Liner sleeve is amazing. I put a bare steel target in the sleeve and shot it with Winchester green tip out of a 16" barrel at 25yrd and it caught almost 20 rounds of spall before shredding and not being effective
@@Leep_Actual it's completely unrealistic but I just kept going till it failed. It was already not going to be used after the first round anyway, if anything does ever happen it will probably be a few rounds tops. I wasn't going to use the steel armor I already bought if it didn't work and theyre only 40$ so it was well worth the confidence boost to shred one then buy two more.
@Brooklyn Boi what are you some kind of poor? Sure I did? LMAO everyone has steel targets and the liners are only $40 so why not just shoot one to make sure it works before you put it in your vest???
That's steel is very impressive The spall lining on steel plates it's only made it take 3 or 4 rounds before it starts to separate the plate itself can take dozens if not hundreds but the spall liner can only take so many before the spalling starts hitting the person. very impressed with the steel plates it took way more abuse then I would ever imagine and if you're getting hit that many times you need to be moving. thanks for the video it helped me decide to get steel mainly because no expiration date.
I have a friend that double stacks a thin level 3 Kevlar weave plate over his steel, the concept being that it softens the blow to the steel and catches frag. I'd love to see you run this test so i can direct him to your Administrative Results.
A level IIIA kevlar panel is not going to slow down rifle rounds. Frags that become dangerous on steel come out the sides of the plate. If you don't cover the sides, putting a IIIA panel in front isn't going to do anything. That's why many of the popular migtigation systems use a sleeve.
If anything I’d recommend running the level IIIA soft armor behind the steel. It will soften the blow to the ribs and possibly catch anything that passes through the plate. Key word possibly either way it would be better than nothing behind the plate or using a trauma pad not rated to stop anything.
@@BuffRANGE You win some you lose some, you try your best not to get hit. Armour isn’t a magic answer to getting hit, it just increases the chances you go home. Also can’t stop every bump and bruise in a gunfight. I was merely taught to put soft behind hard, and the reason why seemed logically sound.
"Don't cheap out on armor" I mean... RMA 1155 plates are cheaper than most AR500 plate options. I think the bigger moral of the story is: "Use the right tool for the right job in the right way." If you buy an AR500 plate and put a protective kevlar covering over it... Well... Problem solved. Yet ceramics are still going to be more comfortable to wear and be lighter for most people. And... I have yet to meet anyone that's getting shot *_so much_* that they have simply "have" to have the longevity of use of steel armor. I mean, if you're getting shot so much that you somehow require more durability than multi-shot rated Level III+/Level IV ceramic armor... I mean... You probably have more pressing issues than what brand and kind of armor you're wearing.
@@matchesburn to be fair though, if your use case is a worst case scenario plate where you can’t just replace it when you go home or back to base steel seems like it would be the better option, surviving an extended engagement or operation
@@matchesburn I think at point of steel durability becoming an issue, fragment resistant shield usually suffer failure. also, steel v50 and v0 significantly lower than ceramic. while ceramic is possible to suffer high power load and still remain unwounded, if hurting, steel plate has notable problem of folding to faster threat.
I'm subbed to gun channels from all over. Kinda fucked up, how many ads get played on Pakistani shooting videos. Not that they don't earn it, but damn. Charity starts at home.
What i was told from an armor person was pick armor with this mindset 1. If you want to stop a bunch of rounds and take multiple hits, buy steel (pay extra for anti-spalling coatings if want to) 2. If you want to be lighter, comfortable and have the spare money to spend and are not expecting to get into a multiperson firefight (Private Security, Concealed armor etc.) and really just want something for a possible 1v1 encounter, buy Ceramic, it will stop the first initial shots and allow you to be more comfortable and menueverable whilst sacrificing strength over all (which ceramics can still stop 1 to 2 308 rounds at lvl4) 3. For picking your level armor, try to base your choice around the ammo you yourself will be carrying when you use the armor... if your just got a sidearm/conceal carry then Level 1-2 would be fine, if your prepping for SHTF scenerios or are using long guns, get yourself Level 3 or Level 4 if you can get ahold of some. If oyur lookign to min/max then there is Special Threat class armor as well thats kinda a well rounded "unofficial" class of armor. 4. DONT BE AFRAID TO SPEND GOOD MONEY FOR GOOD ARMOR this shit is meant to save your life dont cheap out of armor from random sites costing 50$....
@@lolshtf8531 no. I did not say buy steel if you think you'll need it. I said buy steel if you wanna stop more shots. Generally ceramic will be a lot more expensive than steel because of cuts/shape and weight. All I'm saying is don't cheap out on either selection because steel does get expensive and I was more pointing out that there are very cheap listings/ads for like 50-100 dollar armor plates that are level 3+ to 4 where the advertising video looks sketchy, and also it's like a Facebook ad....buy from a reputable place.
Seeing the thumbnail I thought "Well, both will stop your heart and lungs getting turned into ground beef" Shrapnel going elsewhere is kind of an after throught at that threat level lol but going into this Im guessing either one will work wonders catching all that as long as it has a proper rubber coating and wont just let everything bounce everywhere.
It should be said that in the hottest years of the GWOT (early-mid 2000s) tier 1 units used steel plates for DA raids in Iraq for cqb… they’ve since switched of course, but there’s a big difference when you have the funding and tech of JSOC vs the piggy bank on top of your moms fridge.
I took steel and bought carbon fiber 4inx12ft sheet and used gorilla glue spray adhesive and made a very very good spall coating. First one horizontal and then vertical and made all the edges thicker to a kind of deflect or catch more instead of going towards my neck or arms. I tested it and it seems to work well.
@@Zoraxon good for you, statistically there's not enough gain value from going from steel to ceramic the weights not that much better or the protection if you go from steel to the high molecular polyethylene that's a different story. But you do you.
@Brooklyn Boi spoken like a true douchebag, materialistic much? I guess peoples value only comes from the dollar amount in their Bank, never mind if someone like myself who served four years done two deployments just isn't worth anything. Lol it would be hurtful, maybe if you were worth anything or held any value to me but you don't.
I don't like steel armor, but your previous video only showed serious injury to the dummy on the first 5.56 round that hit right on the top edge of the plate and ricocheted upward. Yes, a kevlar bag would help.
@@Austin-jl5pb it’s why I brought it up, also VISM is available from places like Optics Planet so it’s easier for people to digest buying it instead from a random website that might be a card phisher
considering that the spall coating isnt self healing I'm surprised the steel armor kept spalling from being deadly as long as it did. After the 556 you could see how the coating was completely delaminating from the steel.
I love seeing people hate on 762x39 or any AK platform... training is what kills . The guy who trains religiously with his rifle is damn dangerous. I don't care what armor you wear nor how much.
I love your humor and content! I really hope you can gain more funds to get a torso test part too. To really see how the armor holds up with the upper body
Every youtuber that does multiple calibers on a plate always start from least to most threat. And by the time you get the the bigger faster bullets the armor is compromised. I'd rather see the AP rounds first on a fresh plate. Especially on ceramic because the degradation of the plate is due to it catching the lead spalling so it doesn't hit you in the face
Definitely my new favorite channel. Alot of talent and hard work goes into these short stories and I'm always wondering what ol Admin and his crew or cooking up for next vid. Keep up the flow, your killin it brother.
Personally I think both plates should have gotten swapped out between the 5.56x45 and the 7.62x39. I understand how that would be prohibitively expensive
If you want to do the same test but much cheaper, use a ballistics gelatin cube in place of the head. Just set one of the corners facing forward to more closely simulate the frontal angles of a human head a bit. Plus you could just rotate it for a clean portion to continue testing. Having bone structure won't make much difference as you're only trying to show that spalling is happening and that it can cause damage, not that it will penetrate the skull.
If you cannot afford the best quality gear, then anything affordable is better than having none. Kevlar vest with some hard plates is better than none at all. Thanks for the video Sir.
If you are gonna go steel. Look for company with good coating then add a spall liner. Guarddog has a great liner. I run steel only for the shelf life reason for SHTF situation. If my job would involve potentially getting shot at. Then yea I'd spend the money on ceramic.
Another problem here is that once the coating is broken you're almost certainly going to be getting more and more of those fragments. Want to see a raw plate with no damage take some of those 7.62 and see if it still breaches the coating.
The video showed the opposite. The coating was broken from the RPK, then no other fragments in the string. The .308 at the end would have been the highest culprit to cause this.
For anybody who is wondering you can buy frag and spall containment sleeves made from Kevlar or uhdpe that you slide your steel plates in before you insert them into your carrier
@@ryanpeck3377 Not all ceramic is made equal. Quality ceramic is going to cost you $800+ per set. A lot of the cheaper ceramic plates people like are absolute garbage and are definitely not something I'd even think to try as multi-hit capable. Even if companies use the same components, the different ratios and different compositing methods are going to result in a vastly different product even though they're made of the same general materials. The 5 year average time given on ceramic plates isn't because they break down over time chemically, it's because their own weight and mass along with moving them around over time can cause small internal structural failures and cracks over time that you wont see or know your plates are compromised until they're put to the test. Good quality ceramic plates work well, but they do have their downsides. If you're very active and moving around a lot and prone to potentially taking a tumble or two, ceramics are not going to be the best bet for you.
@@ryanpeck3377 right I made the switch to level 4 ceramic and fell in love simply on the weight savings but I also was wearing 11x14 steel front back and sides
When I watched the previous AR video I was actually on the porcelain throne. These videos do enhance the bowel moving experience. Who needs a Squatty Potty when you have Administrative Results?
Great videos as always. I used to do security for AR500 up off the i17 was there in the evenings to mid night once all night. Over night was way to quite there.
Steel plates should have a rim like medieval armour, it existed for a reason, arrows deflect and the rim/ridges/edging you see on Medieval armour was actually designed to guide the arrow and fragments away from the face and or stop them, tests have shown its extremely effective.
@@ryanhadfield5306 hitting the rim, sure, but it should work fine for near edge hits, its just deflecting the shrapnel away by providing a "ramp". European knights at one point actually had a overcoat that was used for arrow splinters/shrapnel much like the coatings and fabrics on plates and plate carriers function. It was phased out in favor of the rimmed armour.(except for the French who used both) Course we don't know the reason it was phased out but it was replaced with the intricate rimmed armour edges, which provide the same function but for less weight so its fair to assume it was due to weight/cost/ effectiveness reasons. Arrows are not bullets, but its worth investigating is my point.
Love my steel armor. More durable and last longer after multiple hits. Yes cumbersome but I’ll take my chances. Oh that I mention it could take multiple hits in the same area? 👍🏽
Damnit quit gear bullying me into making myself poor! Great and concise video yet again showing that just because something stop boolleet doesn't mean it's inherently good armor.
Just because an armor doesn't spall on the surface and can stop a couple rounds before disintegrating into dust, doesn't mean that there is no chance of fragmentation or ricochet, or that it's inherently good armor.
Best test would be a *wooden box,* with a steel plate mounted inside, facing the shooter at a *45°* and behind the plate (which is inside the box) should be a *clay block.* You can catch 99% of any potential frags, under the worst scenario (45° angle - since that sends most frags towards your head) and measure the *backface deformation* in the clay
why would you be getting shot at from 45 degrees below you? from the left or right i get it, hell even 45 from above but i dont understand from below. Also its important to leave the plate inside a carrier as the carrier itself is spall protection. especially the more well made ones that use durable material.
@@foxtrotunit1269 you did. "since that sends most frags towards your head". last i checked your head is above your torso, and you typically don't just lean back at 45 degrees randomly.
@@X4Alpha4X Oh, I see what you mean. You're right I get it now, yeah. My top comment is taking into account the fact that lots of guys have a belly, and so the plate is angled by 15-20 degrees, so testing at 45 degrees is a "margin of error" of sorts. Sound good?
Steel plates are for vehicles, not bodies. Why people still think they’re viable is mind-boggling. Just wait another month or two and save the extra bit to get decent plates. The extra coating on the AR500 plates runs the price up enough to justify never buying them over ceramic.
Before watching the video i can tell you as me and my ex-infantry men friend spoke about this. Steel splinters when hit by a round, meaning shrapnel flies everywhere, potentially hitting you in the face/neck. Ceramic however is just as strong as steel, costs abit more but instead of splintering, Ceramic cracks upon impact making it a lot safer than steel. plus Ceramic weighs a little less making it easier to move about with. Their isn't really any negatives to ceramic, where as steel theirs tons, steel plates are just not safe.
not really any negatives to ceramic?? bro there were pass throughs on the second rifle. ceramic usually cant handle more than 2 rounds to the same spot. steel can take literally thousands of rounds. Also simply taking a hard fall onto a hard surface like a rock or concrete can crack a ceramic plate and if a bullet hits that crack it could pass through if its already on the top end of the rating. Also you already said it yourself but ceramics are more expensive. that's 3 negatives right there.
@@X4Alpha4X steel can take thousands of rounds, but that isn't really a plus - Coating or sleeves wouldn't last a couple shots to make that point matter. Plus, the whole point is moot when it can't stop the same threats as ceramics in the same weight or price category. Armor have to work, period. If an M193 sails through it, then what's the point? This is one of the reasons why the new NIJ will disqualify most steel plates on the market.
@@trechtzach8151 AR500 as a brand are the only producers to have had M193 pass through a plate. and that's not *because* it was steel, its was because they have terrible QC. Proper MIL-DTL-46100 will absolutely stop M193 3,400 fps without problem. I've personally tested it. Also steel lasting thousands of rounds is 100% a plus. say you use your plate and take 5 hits, your spall liner is now compromised just like a ceramic plate would be. the difference however is now if you survived you can re apply another bed liner as a spall coat. wtf are you going to do with a pile of ceramic dust?
@Raylan Givens you are looking at 2 overlapping fantasies. Complete societal collapse, and the idea that you will be in rolling gun battles everyday. Even the US military isn't going through plates at the rate they think they are, which is causing problems for the industry.
I don't mean to be "that guy," but the fragmentation that splashes out from an impact perpendicular to the plate on the front face isn't "spalling." Spalling would be the material that comes out directly behind the plate on the same trajectory (or a conical shape outward, centered around that point) as the bullet hitting the armor. I'm not sure if there's another technical term for what you're checking for here aside from fragmentation (perhaps it's actually called splash) but I simply know that spalling is a specific phenomenon that comes from engineering and material sciences. And I just happen to have researched it quite a bit while in school several years back for mechanical engineering.
basically it can be boiled down to tanker logic: Fragmentation is the stuff that bounces off the armor, spalling IS the armor once it becomes perforated and weaponized against whatever is behind it
Why not incorporate a kevlar/steel gorget at the top of the plate carrier to both catch spall and defend more area from direct hits? Better yet, incorporate the gorget into the plate itself to deflect spall and provide additional coverage.
A lot of factors. Weight, mobility, and endurance being a few. Average level 4 armor with ceramic plates weighs about 30 lbs and already limits mobility. Now imagine walking around wearing it all day in the heat while doing whatever you do. Gets tiring quick. Wanna add more weight?
@@michaellarocca4879 but no civilians are going to be operating like a military unit, we're not doing foot patrols in afghanistans hills or 20 miles behind enemy lines, we're defending burger town. a little extra weight isnt really an issue for the overwhelming majority of us imo.
@@alphawolfgang173 try living in Florida and working outside. Hell, just stand outside. My mother gave me shit about not working as many hours as i could when it was 110 all week (not that it was her business). I said "im going into this shop here. Get out of my car." "Get out and do what?" "Just fucking stand here as long as you can. Dont get in the car and turn on the AC". I was gone 15 minutes. I came back, she was sitting in the car, AC on full blast and shivering bc she was sweating from her 7 minutes in the heat. She wasnt in Afghanistan, and she wasnt on foot patrol. She spent 7 minutes in Florida heat in a T-shirt. Now imagine adding armor to that equation.
remember kids, ceramic has a short shelf life and can be compromised if dropped on the ground or dipped in water. also it loses surface area when shot. the only upside is weight savings. *Shrug*
So after you shot it ten times with all kinds of crap, then there was a bit of spalding damage... How many times do you plan on getting shot before they dome you anyhow?
@@AdministrativeResults I'm just one of those who doesn't see this as a huge issue. I have both, and I doubt if I were by some I'll fate ever involved in a shooting. I doubt I would have it on.
Me - "Mom, I want Garand Thumb"
Mom - "We have Garand Thumb at home"
At home - This guy
The Talking Baklava
@@AndyE30 Baklava? Hes not a middle eastern dessert.
@@WayStedYou *Greek
Sooooooo, Your Mom has talking Balaclava at Home...
Are you Baby Balaclava? O.o
@@TorchyThePyro "Baklava is a layered pastry dessert made of filo pastry, filled with chopped nuts, and sweetened with syrup or honey. It was one of the most popular sweet pastries of Ottoman cuisine."
TIL the Ottoman empire is greek.
Genuinely laughed out loud at the “spalding damage”. Bravo sir, bravo.
If I may make a suggestion, I think too many people focus on projectile impacts that are normal to the strike face. I would be curious to see how both types of plates react when struck at 45°. If the target had his arms up in a c-clamp grip, with a projectile essentially ride the strike face and end up in his brachial artery? NIJ standard is for perpendicular impacts, but I think that spec is do for some updating. For science.
I'm down to try different angles
@@AdministrativeResults 😏
@@AdministrativeResults Note that for the steel plates, the spawling will probably come into play. It's an extra 50-75 "addon" that is critical to plates protecting you from the shrapnel. The angle I'm worried about is it nailing me in the chin or the toe/knee.
@@AdministrativeResults that's what she said
Ar500 is not NIJ certified as of 3 year ago I am too lazy check just fyi.
When I first started in law enforcement in the late 1980's, all soft body armor came with a steel "trauma plate" that went in the middle of the front the carrier and was supposed to help protect your sternum. They stopped using the steel plate in the early nineties due to the spall from hitting the steel plate causing injuries. Most vests now come with an pocket to add an extra layer of soft armor to help protect the sternum. I had a guy punch me in the chest while wearing one of the steel plate inserts. He broke his hand.
Steel wins 😂
Ah, I remember those steel trauma plates. And yup, they did away with that approach. I was down in the warehouse one day and there were crates full of old steel trauma plates. I asked if I could take one, they said sure. I ended up putting it in my new issue vest.....so it was a kevlar vest with a steel trauma plate, and a kevlar trauma plate on top of that. The theory was that if something went through the outer kevlar trauma plate, it would strike the steel and get stopped cold.....and any deflection or Spalding would be minimized by the outer kevlar plate.
I dont know if our logic was sound.....but that's how we felt in the late 1990s , early 2000s.....and in the last year or 2, steel trauma plates are making a comeback.
@@michaelgross7016
Now that you say it like that. That seems like the way to go
Why i wear ceramic and if i can find one, will wear a softbody carrier. I just dont like softbody cause it only protects against small pistols and when you do get shot its ganna break bones. Ceramic plates will stop basically any gun 99% of civilians own, absorbs energy by fracturing AND spreads that lessened energy over the entire area of the plate (No bruises/Broken bones). Ceramic plates should be standard everywhere and are in militaries. If we can combine ceramics with polymerization we could create iron man type armor where its movable yet brittle and hard as diamond.
I would ask , how many rounds did the steel take before the spall started to escape from the plate, and how many rounds did the ceramic take before penatrating THROUGH the plate. from what I could count the steel held up to more rounds before spalling started to leak out as opposed to the ceramic being PENATRATED by fewer rounds. From what I have observed before steel had the spall coatings applied it was definitely very dangerous. When they started applying the anti spalling coatings that seems to have changed the calculation of how well it performs against ceramic. Ceramics have anti spall coatings applied to them because they cause spall as well. I have seen testing done where a steel plate with the built up coating, inserted into a light weight Kevlar sleeve survive many more hits before allowing spall to escape. From my understanding, if ceramic gets shot once it needs to be retired, the military has both the money and the logistics to replace them quickly. As a civilian with limited funds it's not quite as easy. The only advantage I see to the ceramic is the capability to stop a 30.06 black tip armor piercing round, let's be honest , what are the chances of a military serviceman facing that threat as opposed to a civilian. I'm NOT a expert for sure, these are just observations, so if someone with more expertise could point out what I'm missing please do so ( I'm not being a smart ass I really mean it) I would like to make logical informed decisions before spending money.
I can't believe this dude knew I was on the toilet taking a dump! Good job!
Bro same 😂
Good thing Dale had that armor on. That 9mm could’ve blown his lung out
For those who don't get the reference it's referencing to Joe Biden saying that "9mm blows the lung out of the body".
Leaving an exit wound a foot wide too!!!
How does the ceramic hold up against an F-15? Going to have to take that possibility into account nowadays.
@@DoroteoVilla how does an NIJ IV hold up against 15 Satan II ICBMs? Find out next time on
@@DoroteoVilla the fact that our president has this perception proves that it's actually clowns that rule the world, and not the juice industry.
Remember bros, whether you have steel or ceramic, the best defense is evasion.
Armor is only there to give your medic a chance at saving you when you do get lit up.
Sounds nice, having alot of mobility is nice. Not so much for people who are not as mobile as you... ever had to suffer through fire to get interest out of a red zone, to move support though bombed out areas on foot? Just trying to get people not nearly as hardened as you through the blood muck and shit? Trust me you would hate not having that heavy ass armor more than the slow fucking civilian that is actually making a difference.
Heros are just assholes who take fire for the people doing real work... Your mobility means jack shit if you can't take punishment for the people around you.
Yes, and no.
generally speaking, of the 40% hitrate of your torso, the plate protects... hmm. Maybe 50%? Like, you can fit another plate on your torso, about, and still not quite get coverage, but that's if you define torso as being abdominal and pelvic...
Bygones!
[] an armor plate covers the vitals. *You will NOT DIE unless you suffer MAJOR ARTERIAL WOUNDS and even then you have enough blood in the body to stay up and combat capable for at least 45 seconds.* The FBI found that having your heart obliterated is still 10-15 sec combat effective due to blood circulating, you will live with a puny little graze or GSW through nothing important.
[] rifle class hard armor *will keep you up.* Against centerfire rifle threats, the deformation effect has a very low chance of ever taking you down, and it basically can't kill you unless you're comically unlucky. Unless you bought your ceramic plate from Fujian, China, or something. I can't speak for steel, it MIGHT be worse?
[] If you don't get T-zoned or CNS'ed, and you have the mental fortitude, even a skinny little teenage girl from nowhereston USA can tank surprising amounts of damage. What really gets you in the end is pain, and the ability to handle, or not handle it.
@@KoishiVibin First back deformation on a plate is extremely important, it manages to break ribs and push them into the lungs. No lungs no air, 45 seconds until you drown in your own blood is a mercy killing at best. Second alot of people are using swimming cuts lately and it does effect coverage, considerably. Special ops and bare roll cages are super cool but don't have any kinda place in rough attrition. You have to move civilians from point a to point b without vehicles and they are carrying maybe 100 pounds each in food and medicine? What would you do? For every one of them killed 20 people will starve. So any percentage to get the real damn heros through the line at the cost of your own comfort because of reduced weight plates assuming you can get more after they are all jacked up because of dynamic motion is the difference between life and death of hundreds, nay thousands of people.
@@KoishiVibin to be fair I really liked your take on this. 🤌
I'm at work so I'm gonna have to watch the video later, just stopping by to say I love you and none of the people on Epstein's client list have been arrested yet
Well said, Gus.
Looks like they have their backs covered by a couple friends
I love this community
Have a good day at work Gus
@@mistergrosbig4085 Their back blast area is clear.
I walk away from this with a greater respect for steel honestly. Here’s what I see ceramic has to offer. Higher single shot threat capability, lighter weight, zero or minimal spalling, maybe a more comfortable profile since it’s a bit thicker than a steel plate. Here’s what I see steel having to offer. Higher multi shot capabilities, massive shelf life, easy to produce and therefore rather inexpensive. But here’s my main issue. While the ceramic plate had zero spalling, it did have a catastrophic failure in that it let a common cartridge (despite the 20 inch barrel [77gr which is slower anyway]) pass clean through which would mortally wound you. A deep laceration or even frag stuck in your facial tissue or neck is brutal but without medical help a gut shot is a death sentence. In SHTF all ceramic plates would also be worthless 5 years down the road because they’d expire. Everyone will be running around with steel, just a note. I think a steel plate with a build up and spall sleeve is the best option. It’s not unrealistic for a swat guy to kick down a door and get hit 3-4 times in the chest with a pistol followed by a common rifle. In that decimal of a chance, he’d suffer a wound he wouldn’t have suffered with steel. Obviously he wouldn’t want to expose himself, but again, shit happens. I think hating steel is the new dig. But weight (despite the difference being fairly drastic in some cases) aside, a build up coated multi curve III+ lightweight plate with a spall sleeve actually seems like it would perform better in virtually every way than a ceramic plate and cost half the price most often. Higher multi hit protection, zero or minimal frag, better value and pricing, long shelf life, and at the very least possible to make on your own. If there’s anything I may be overlooking I’d love to know
I actually love steel in a lot of applications, it’s a tool and different tools work for different jobs. One more consideration though: bouyancy. If you live on or near water, or conduct/plan to conduct any maritime type operations, steel is about the worst thing you can pick. Poly will help keep you from drowning furiously if you were to fall in the water. Just a thought.
@@eddietonore2813 That’s a phenomenal outlook and something I failed to consider. I’m very glad you brought that up because even in non military applications sometimes you might have to cross a river and 20+lbs of steel that is very negatively buoyant would make a huge difference. Add another tally to the ceramic/poly score my friend
@@thecolossalwang2308 Ceramic plates are not at all buoyant either. You will still sink like a brick if you fall into water with ceramic plates on. So ceramic and steel are both equally bad in that regard. The only option with buoyancy is poly plates, which are otherwise similar to ceramic but outrageously expensive.
Something else to note is durability. Ceramic breaks down in extreme heat or cold (not even super extreme, just like below 30 or above 90 degrees) and can crack if it takes a hard impact. Steel has neither of these drawbacks. You can toss a plate carrier with steel plates in the trunk of your car and leave it in there for 10 years, through 110 degree summers and -10 degree winters, and it’s still going to perform.
With ceramic you might just get thumped in the chest by a baseball bat and lose the integrity of your armor. Or be forced to expose it to extreme heat or cold for a week... and lose the integrity of your armor.
Steel beats ceramic in every way that matters with the exception of spalling, which can be reasonably mitigated with a good coating of anti-spall.
the future will be composite armour with ERA bricks. you get shot? just have bits of your chest rig explode back at the assailant!
Someone needs to do this test with a carrier with ALL the doodads, doohikies and battle rattle attached. Loaded rifle and pistol mags, I phone, peanut chews and all strapped to it. Watch the pieces fly regardless of what plate you have.
thanks to the growing up with unsupervised access to the internet i can confirm that the fal shot to the dome at point blank is pretty realistic.
Sheesh
Lol we might've gotten flashbacks to the same video. 3 round burst, black rifle, basketball shorts and flip flops?
@@alexfaudel5245 Lemme guess, Brazil?
The only problem with these types of tests is the same plate is used over and over again. After getting hit with the first 5 rounds the coating is getting compromised and thus will fail more easily. For a real test of the spalling capture is to use a new plate each time for each caliber round. Then keep track of how many rounds it takes for the coating to start failing. Now this is only for the coating capabilities, not the plate itself.
I agree.
It's actually a testament to the strength of metal plates that they can take so many rounds before failing.
As you've said it should be a new plate every time but that would up the cost significantly of this type of testing.
I dont think it is, the whole point of steel plates is they're supposed to take more hits than ceramic. If the anti spall coating only lasts 4-5 rounds its effectively the same durability as ceramic but heavier and less consistent at preventing spall.
i get it man, but tbf these plates do cost alot, but for it to be fair new plates should be used for each fired round.
@@reposter6434 Not really, you can get a set of hesco l210s or 4400s for a couple hundred more than a set of ar500s. If $2-300 on a one time purchase is a deal breaker then you should probably re evaluate your priorities.
@@reposter6434 bending and coating the steel is the expensive part. I make shooter cut plates from US wear plate that can handle a shitload of strikes for about $40. We use one plate for a target that has taken upwards of 200 strikes, pistol and crappy rifle ammo.
I love body armor testing and seeing what common rounds can defeat it. I've heard 55g out of a 20 inch barrel defeats a lot of level 3
Watch Buffman for more thorough but less theatrical testing. I am not at all using 'theatrical' a pejorative. Theatrical is a good thing when not used to describe your significant other.
This is true. lvl 3 is not rated for 3000+ fps which can be done with a 20in barrel and 55g
Speed kills.
Long barrel 556 will always be king, cringe af to see all these short barrels
Check out Military Arms Channel's testing of the Hesco L210s. Stopped an M855A1 out of a 20". Super impressive.
I know absolutely nothing about firearms but this is so entertaining! I just found your channel and I am loving going through all of your videos! 😳🤯🙌🤩
The moment you said I kno you’re watching this taking a dump…couldn’t have been anymore truer. LOL
For extracting your shrapnel fragments, you might want some hemostats (sometimes more commonly called clamps, long slender alligator gripping surgical tool that locks on the back). Super handy for a wide variety of things and absolutely a dream for extracting just about anything from a tight space, in whatever medium you want.
Should keep in med kit to clamp off bleeders too. Esp where a tournie won't work.
@AldoSchmedack Now I just want to see ya'lls medic kits.
I do the standard break down:
-Trauma(standard kit for arterial bleeds with onehand tourniquets and clamps)
-Bleed (packing and compression)
-Ortho(Sam splints etc for stabalization)
-Airway
Medicine/oxygen kits excluded unless called for
@QuestionableConcepts , I'm still working on building mine, but my wife is an ER nurse and is helping me. She can also get some of the harder to find goodies.
@chthulu27 that's great man!
Even providone iodine (from reliable medicalgrade producers) can be hard to purchase in some areas as a consumer.
@QuestionableConcepts , yeah, it's really weird. Some stuff she's able to "acquire" just isn't available in stores that I've seen. I don't know why. Maybe there's just not enough public sector demand to justify the cost of trying to sell something almost no one knows how to really use? I have no idea. The stuff doesn't seem terribly complicated, so I'm not sure why it's so annoying to get ahold of.
Steel spauling is similar to issues they experienced in the bow and arrow days. Back then the added small ramps or flaring at the edges of the breast plate to divert arrows away from the neck and head. I wonder why thats not been tried in modern times
Spalling is negated by the coating and the plate carrier itself… there’s dozens of incidents online of guys in Ukraine and the Middle East using steel plates effectively
@@Chicano_pistolero liar
Now I’m picturing a revival of old school armor and I’m here for it
@@arighteousname5882 how is he lying?
@@thalesofmiletus6162 The steel wouldn't be perfectly flat, and as he said the head wouldn't be where it was in this video. There are videos showing how bad spall of an AR500 plate can be and it's terrifying.
We should also add that steel plates are incredibly heavy, and that depending on what you are likely to encounter you can choose between lightweight special threat plates or work your way up to some heavier ceramic level 4 plates which I have seen range from 6-8lbs per plate. The AR 500 plates start at 8 and go up to 9.5lbs if you choose the thick coating.
Then of course you have poly plates that can stop M80 and M193, and I bet you can find some that are rated higher than lvl 3 that would take M855A1. These plates are light, and help you maintain mobility which is key to staying alive.
Ahhh let’s see Paul Allen’s ceramic and steel armor🥴
Oh my god, it even has a watermark.
For me it’s the durability and longevity of the steel that wins in the end. A 20 year steel plate protects just as good as a 5 year ceramic, just for 15 more years. The spalling thing was interesting as well. Definitely important to switch plates out after taking rounds.
But one thing I have heard first hand from an operator: no matter the material it’s made of, you take a hit to the plates, you’re going down. Just some plates have a better chance of not breaking a bone on the other side than others.
Ceramics dont expire after 5 years, manufacturers have a warranty period of 5-15 years. This is not an expiration date. Modern ceramics are made of inert materials that do not expire unless you are letting it sit in a bucket of sweat at high temperatures for prolonged periods of time.
Don't hurt yourself Pauly. Even after a bullet or two you can get very bad spalling. The worst point of steel armor is when you get penetrated, the bullet will throw all that steel it blasted through into you. Steel also doesn't absorb shock like ceramic does, leading you to getting thrown to the floor and breaking a rib.
Steel will direct the force outward if it is curved. most ceramic armor will actually cave in and have lots of backface deformation and can cave in your lungs. no armor is going to feel good when you get hit but I'd rather fall over than have my lungs collapse.
@@patrickhenderson488 no what will happen is that the impact will cause the other side of the plate to spall and ceramic armor absorbs the energy of the impact so you won't get your lungs fucked up.
@@patrickhenderson488 modern ceramic armor has strict BFD standards. Any bfd less than 44mm should cause minimal damage while most credible manufacturers go for less than 15mm of BFD. Steel doesnt transfer the energy outwards, it directly transfers through it.
I haven't seen any steel armor manufacturer incorporate a steel "rim" along the edges of a plate and runs flush with the bed liner coating (whatever they call it).
In theory, the "rim" may at least stop or deflect bullet fragments away from the wearer's limbs, neck, and face.
Way back in the day have been, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
For me, what this test brings to mind are automotive crash tests when comparing 1950s cars to modern day vehicles. Those highway boats would absolutely HOUSE 40-50 mph crashes and only need some paint touch up, yet the same speed crashes for modern cars look like a T-rex chewed it up. The result I care about is what happens to the people inside the car, not the car itself. Ceramic plate technology mimics the principles of the "crumple zone", whereas steel achieves ballistic "protection" via sheer hardness, i.e. Abrasion Resistance 500. The ceramic protection comes out looking messed up, but helps keep the person behind it safe.
you forgot to mention the backface deformation that ceramic had compared to the steel. this will tell you how safe it keeps the person.
Great input, I agree
No seat belt? Bucket seats? What could go wrong?
My concern is the steel did keep the bullets out of the wearer after extended shots where the ceramic caved and was penetrated.
I could see if I'm in a situation where I'm not gonna have access to plates other than what I'm wearing and in an extended fire fight, steel might be preferred
@@ben10mama I've yet to see a level 3/3+ steel plate show as much back deformation as a ceramic plate that has been compromised. also imagine buying ceramic plates 4-5 years prior to a SHTF scenario, and you can't have Fedex ship you a new pair. this is why I own steel. little bit of weight training to make those extra 5-8 pounds disappear. spall covers. and you're set for decades. my neighbor has had an ar500 3/8"x8" circle he's shot at since 92 and it hasn't cracked or shown any signs of it being compromised, after being shot thousands and thousands of times.
I was shot in ceramic when i served over seas and spauling occurs regardless of the type of plate. I would also like to see people test armor how it is supposed to be used. NIJ level 3 is intended for 4-5 hits of 7.62 max..most other armors to include NIJ level 4 is rated for one hit of 30-06AP max. Too many "armor tests" take the stance of lets take one plate and throw 40rnds at it and then go "oh my god the spauling killed him and the plate didnt last." Armor is a just in case, even in the service we swapped plates every patrol whether we took a hit or not, and relied on tactics and cover. Armor of any type will get the layman weekend warrior killed without education and training, especially with these types of "testing". As entertainment its fine but please people learn before you rely on UA-cam for your education.
Civilians aren’t very smart for that bro. We never switched out our SAPI plates unless someone got hit. Your putting too much faith into civilians intelligence regarding real world firearm usage
I find it extremely weird that you swapped SAPI every patrol. I say that cuz we would patrol outside the wire for days on end, in which we would NEVER carry additional SAPI plates with us cuz that would be extremely dumb lmao
@@TheInfantry98 We never carried extra SAPI outside the fence..but once we got back from a route we did swap plates when we saw S3 for resupply...only time we did have extra off FOB was when in convoy to another location...medical unit so we were rather well supplied at all times
🧢
Good advice sir
Bro, I -only- watch Admin. Results when I'm taking my morning dump. There's my sacrifice. Thanks for being amazing 👏
I laughed so hard at Spalding damage when you threw the basketball it’s absurd. Thank you for that.
One of the best content creators I've seen. Watched a BUNCH A VIDS. Keep it up bud!
The Guard Dog Spall Liner sleeve is amazing. I put a bare steel target in the sleeve and shot it with Winchester green tip out of a 16" barrel at 25yrd and it caught almost 20 rounds of spall before shredding and not being effective
And if you get shot 20 fucking times you're having a bad day boss
@@Leep_Actual it's completely unrealistic but I just kept going till it failed. It was already not going to be used after the first round anyway, if anything does ever happen it will probably be a few rounds tops. I wasn't going to use the steel armor I already bought if it didn't work and theyre only 40$ so it was well worth the confidence boost to shred one then buy two more.
@Brooklyn Boi what are you some kind of poor? Sure I did? LMAO everyone has steel targets and the liners are only $40 so why not just shoot one to make sure it works before you put it in your vest???
Just concreted my decision to get the guard dog liners. 👍🏻
This is just poverty justification with extra steps.
Admin Results let’s get the demonetization out of the way real quick UA-cam:
Obliterates the ballistics gel head
Our days have been maybe better thanks to this man, keep it up admin
Ooo. Taking a dump whilst eating my coffee and drinking my beer. You know my morning routine too well.
That's steel is very impressive The spall lining on steel plates it's only made it take 3 or 4 rounds before it starts to separate the plate itself can take dozens if not hundreds but the spall liner can only take so many before the spalling starts hitting the person. very impressed with the steel plates it took way more abuse then I would ever imagine and if you're getting hit that many times you need to be moving. thanks for the video it helped me decide to get steel mainly because no expiration date.
I have a friend that double stacks a thin level 3 Kevlar weave plate over his steel, the concept being that it softens the blow to the steel and catches frag. I'd love to see you run this test so i can direct him to your Administrative Results.
A level IIIA kevlar panel is not going to slow down rifle rounds. Frags that become dangerous on steel come out the sides of the plate. If you don't cover the sides, putting a IIIA panel in front isn't going to do anything. That's why many of the popular migtigation systems use a sleeve.
If anything I’d recommend running the level IIIA soft armor behind the steel. It will soften the blow to the ribs and possibly catch anything that passes through the plate. Key word possibly either way it would be better than nothing behind the plate or using a trauma pad not rated to stop anything.
I’ve been taught to put the soft armour _behind_ the plate, as it protects from shards coming through the plate, spalling, and deformations.
@@yobrodontshoot1130 It doesn't protect from fragmentation coming out the sides of the plate though...
@@BuffRANGE You win some you lose some, you try your best not to get hit. Armour isn’t a magic answer to getting hit, it just increases the chances you go home. Also can’t stop every bump and bruise in a gunfight.
I was merely taught to put soft behind hard, and the reason why seemed logically sound.
Moral of the story: don't cheap out on armor. Buy calls on AAPL by the way.
"Don't cheap out on armor"
I mean... RMA 1155 plates are cheaper than most AR500 plate options.
I think the bigger moral of the story is: "Use the right tool for the right job in the right way."
If you buy an AR500 plate and put a protective kevlar covering over it... Well... Problem solved. Yet ceramics are still going to be more comfortable to wear and be lighter for most people. And... I have yet to meet anyone that's getting shot *_so much_* that they have simply "have" to have the longevity of use of steel armor. I mean, if you're getting shot so much that you somehow require more durability than multi-shot rated Level III+/Level IV ceramic armor... I mean... You probably have more pressing issues than what brand and kind of armor you're wearing.
Or duct tape!
What expiration date?
@@matchesburn to be fair though, if your use case is a worst case scenario plate where you can’t just replace it when you go home or back to base steel seems like it would be the better option, surviving an extended engagement or operation
@@matchesburn
I think at point of steel durability becoming an issue, fragment resistant shield usually suffer failure.
also, steel v50 and v0 significantly lower than ceramic. while ceramic is possible to suffer high power load and still remain unwounded, if hurting, steel plate has notable problem of folding to faster threat.
Demonetized in so many awesome ways
I'm subbed to gun channels from all over. Kinda fucked up, how many ads get played on Pakistani shooting videos.
Not that they don't earn it, but damn.
Charity starts at home.
I just now discovered you and now you are literally my favorite… keep it up man
Another great one. The solution, which you have made crystal clear, is to rock BOTH, ceramic on the outside.
He kinda cute tho
Got a dump truck too
Oh he drives a dump truck, has diesel and ammo? Oh my.
@@robertpatter5509 he is the dump truck 😏
What i was told from an armor person was pick armor with this mindset
1. If you want to stop a bunch of rounds and take multiple hits, buy steel (pay extra for anti-spalling coatings if want to)
2. If you want to be lighter, comfortable and have the spare money to spend and are not expecting to get into a multiperson firefight (Private Security, Concealed armor etc.) and really just want something for a possible 1v1 encounter, buy Ceramic, it will stop the first initial shots and allow you to be more comfortable and menueverable whilst sacrificing strength over all (which ceramics can still stop 1 to 2 308 rounds at lvl4)
3. For picking your level armor, try to base your choice around the ammo you yourself will be carrying when you use the armor... if your just got a sidearm/conceal carry then Level 1-2 would be fine, if your prepping for SHTF scenerios or are using long guns, get yourself Level 3 or Level 4 if you can get ahold of some. If oyur lookign to min/max then there is Special Threat class armor as well thats kinda a well rounded "unofficial" class of armor.
4. DONT BE AFRAID TO SPEND GOOD MONEY FOR GOOD ARMOR this shit is meant to save your life dont cheap out of armor from random sites costing 50$....
@@lolshtf8531 no. I did not say buy steel if you think you'll need it. I said buy steel if you wanna stop more shots. Generally ceramic will be a lot more expensive than steel because of cuts/shape and weight. All I'm saying is don't cheap out on either selection because steel does get expensive and I was more pointing out that there are very cheap listings/ads for like 50-100 dollar armor plates that are level 3+ to 4 where the advertising video looks sketchy, and also it's like a Facebook ad....buy from a reputable place.
Administrative results is becoming one of the most honest guntubbers. Not bought out.
Seeing the thumbnail I thought "Well, both will stop your heart and lungs getting turned into ground beef" Shrapnel going elsewhere is kind of an after throught at that threat level lol but going into this Im guessing either one will work wonders catching all that as long as it has a proper rubber coating and wont just let everything bounce everywhere.
It should be said that in the hottest years of the GWOT (early-mid 2000s) tier 1 units used steel plates for DA raids in Iraq for cqb… they’ve since switched of course, but there’s a big difference when you have the funding and tech of JSOC vs the piggy bank on top of your moms fridge.
I took steel and bought carbon fiber 4inx12ft sheet and used gorilla glue spray adhesive and made a very very good spall coating. First one horizontal and then vertical and made all the edges thicker to a kind of deflect or catch more instead of going towards my neck or arms. I tested it and it seems to work well.
I bought ceramic plates and haven't had to worry about it
@@Zoraxon good for you, statistically there's not enough gain value from going from steel to ceramic the weights not that much better or the protection if you go from steel to the high molecular polyethylene that's a different story. But you do you.
I do wanna get some UHMWPE plates, but that'll be a minute.
Also, ruck with plates and tell me ounces don't make pounds
@@Zoraxon I ruck with Steel for training. Every day in 100+ is a reminder to buy ceramics and a better carrier. But hey, train hard work easy.
@Brooklyn Boi spoken like a true douchebag, materialistic much? I guess peoples value only comes from the dollar amount in their Bank, never mind if someone like myself who served four years done two deployments just isn't worth anything. Lol it would be hurtful, maybe if you were worth anything or held any value to me but you don't.
I don't like steel armor, but your previous video only showed serious injury to the dummy on the first 5.56 round that hit right on the top edge of the plate and ricocheted upward.
Yes, a kevlar bag would help.
It would be interesting seeing you hit some poverty pony shit like the ceramic poly VISM(a division of NcStar) plates that aren’t even NIJ certified
Oh no. Not NcStar.
@@robertpatter5509 I mean I’d imagine a bunch of airsoft LARPers liked NcStar 😎
@@yupikgaming4503 and Barska
Mrgunsngear does some tests on em like botachs ceramic plates. They can eat a shit ton of rounds.
@@Austin-jl5pb it’s why I brought it up, also VISM is available from places like Optics Planet so it’s easier for people to digest buying it instead from a random website that might be a card phisher
2:28 That skull aint no mistake thats just your brand new patented realistic zombie head I am so impressed by the creativity of this channel
No body:
Big pointy sticks: Am I a joke to you?
So you're telling me that my SKS is far more deadly than my AR is to someone wearing a steel plate.
Me sitting here with my RPK: 😎
Absolutely it is
considering that the spall coating isnt self healing I'm surprised the steel armor kept spalling from being deadly as long as it did. After the 556 you could see how the coating was completely delaminating from the steel.
No. Your AR is more deadly. Speed kills armor.
I love seeing people hate on 762x39 or any AK platform... training is what kills . The guy who trains religiously with his rifle is damn dangerous. I don't care what armor you wear nor how much.
I love your humor and content! I really hope you can gain more funds to get a torso test part too. To really see how the armor holds up with the upper body
So what I’m taking away from this is don’t get shot multiple times with either types of armor.
Just don't get shot
Every youtuber that does multiple calibers on a plate always start from least to most threat. And by the time you get the the bigger faster bullets the armor is compromised. I'd rather see the AP rounds first on a fresh plate. Especially on ceramic because the degradation of the plate is due to it catching the lead spalling so it doesn't hit you in the face
"Impressive, very nice; let's see Paul Allen's armor plate..."
Definitely my new favorite channel. Alot of talent and hard work goes into these short stories and I'm always wondering what ol Admin and his crew or cooking up for next vid. Keep up the flow, your killin it brother.
Now I’m wondering what the effects of the bullet would be when it goes through the magazine with ammunition and into the plate.
I always find these tests lack real-use wear situations just like that. Would be a blast to see
Demo ranch probably has a video like that
I'm not sure if it was him or garand thumb that already tested this, along with if your rifle would stop a bullet.
@@HandleHandle123 garand thumb tested if your gun would stop a bullet, and demo ranch did the loaded mag test.
@@autisticANDarmed shit now imma look for that video. Thanks.
"its not the armor that kills you, its the bullets that go through it"
, sun tsu(probably)
Thanks that was a truly mind blowing intro
Now my little brother will never annoy me again
The best admin is a masked one
Personally I think both plates should have gotten swapped out between the 5.56x45 and the 7.62x39. I understand how that would be prohibitively expensive
Here’s my sacrifice to Moloc…..I mean the algorithm gods for the balaclava boi.
Same same
If you want to do the same test but much cheaper, use a ballistics gelatin cube in place of the head. Just set one of the corners facing forward to more closely simulate the frontal angles of a human head a bit. Plus you could just rotate it for a clean portion to continue testing.
Having bone structure won't make much difference as you're only trying to show that spalling is happening and that it can cause damage, not that it will penetrate the skull.
This is a beautiful combination of comedy and guns
If you cannot afford the best quality gear, then anything affordable is better than having none. Kevlar vest with some hard plates is better than none at all. Thanks for the video Sir.
My man Admin out here telling the truth about Spalding! The threat from sports equipment is real my fellow Kings. Stay EZ, stay Breezy, stay vigilant.
I'd ask for partial return on those jelly bois, they should mail it with some sorts dryice or cool gell pack.
If you are gonna go steel. Look for company with good coating then add a spall liner. Guarddog has a great liner. I run steel only for the shelf life reason for SHTF situation. If my job would involve potentially getting shot at. Then yea I'd spend the money on ceramic.
Oh man I'm such a fan of this channel! Frigging amazing stuff!
Love the Malcom in the middle reference "there's asbestos in the ceiling"
If you're taking that many, you're in the wrong place to begin with.
"No, no. The first 6 rounds of 9x19 and 4 rounds of 77 grain OTMs were just a suggestion that I might be doing something wrong."
@@matchesburn warning shots
That's how you become robocop.
Wrong Place at Wrong Time is my Native American name. Just ‘Wrong’ for short
can you buy bulletproof vests off amazon?
That opening shot with the FAL
*LESSON LEARNED:* Of *_ALL_* things to cheap out on . . . your body armor is *_NOT_* one of them
You should do another video with the plates in a spall containment sleeve to contrast the differences
Welcome to Administrative Results!
Technically we're Garand Thumb on a Budget!
No knocking, love the content and been following for ages!
Another problem here is that once the coating is broken you're almost certainly going to be getting more and more of those fragments. Want to see a raw plate with no damage take some of those 7.62 and see if it still breaches the coating.
Duct tape?
The video showed the opposite. The coating was broken from the RPK, then no other fragments in the string. The .308 at the end would have been the highest culprit to cause this.
For anybody who is wondering you can buy frag and spall containment sleeves made from Kevlar or uhdpe that you slide your steel plates in before you insert them into your carrier
By the time you spend the extra for that you could have probably just bought ceramic plates for the same or close $$
@@ryanpeck3377 Not all ceramic is made equal. Quality ceramic is going to cost you $800+ per set. A lot of the cheaper ceramic plates people like are absolute garbage and are definitely not something I'd even think to try as multi-hit capable. Even if companies use the same components, the different ratios and different compositing methods are going to result in a vastly different product even though they're made of the same general materials. The 5 year average time given on ceramic plates isn't because they break down over time chemically, it's because their own weight and mass along with moving them around over time can cause small internal structural failures and cracks over time that you wont see or know your plates are compromised until they're put to the test. Good quality ceramic plates work well, but they do have their downsides. If you're very active and moving around a lot and prone to potentially taking a tumble or two, ceramics are not going to be the best bet for you.
@@Talishar RMA 1155s level 4s and a set is $300. Definitely not absolute garbage either given they are NIJ certified too
@@ryanpeck3377 right I made the switch to level 4 ceramic and fell in love simply on the weight savings but I also was wearing 11x14 steel front back and sides
@@ja0298 300$ for level 4 ???
It wont matter what they're wearing if you aim for the pelvic girdle (the best hit box on the entire body).
JFC ITS JASON BOURNE
Remember this when the IRS tries to get frisky, and yes you are right its the best fucking hit box ever.
@@Opachki69420 i disagree and prefer the T Zone™️ action.
@@GeauxRussGeaux real chads staccato machine gun fire from groin to t zone
@@Opachki69420 it is, as the kids say, “checking ALL the boxes.” 😎👉👉
'Gentlemen, I know you're watching this from the toilet taking a dump...'
Me: HOW DOES HE KNOW!?!?
Holy shit, the UA-cam algorithm actually put something entertaining in my feed
I put kevlar spall sleeves over my steel plates and I feel like it will definitely last longer round for round against ceramic
Lol. You mean cope sleeves? Because in no situation is steel better than ceramic unless you think being shot 20 times is viable🤡
@@AnrchyXRY are you just mad that you spent a lot on ceramics but steel with a spall sleeve is better for a lot cheaper? lol
@@alphawolfgang173 “Better” Yeah that’s false. Cheaper? For sure. Quality comes at a price. Have fun with the coping though, poor.
@@alphawolfgang173 defending spall sleeves instantly make you a troglodyte
@@razalfraz6618 nooo you cant just use a cheap and effective solution!
When I watched the previous AR video I was actually on the porcelain throne. These videos do enhance the bowel moving experience. Who needs a Squatty Potty when you have Administrative Results?
Squatty potty for the win 🥇
Great videos as always. I used to do security for AR500 up off the i17 was there in the evenings to mid night once all night. Over night was way to quite there.
“Hey do you want more armor” PERHAPS
Steel plates should have a rim like medieval armour, it existed for a reason, arrows deflect and the rim/ridges/edging you see on Medieval armour was actually designed to guide the arrow and fragments away from the face and or stop them, tests have shown its extremely effective.
Many mentioned that already and yes it would realy make sense
Or get a spall containment sleeve lol
@@ryanhadfield5306 doesnt work well on near edge hits.and weighs more then a slight rim.
@@givemeanameman1 I see your point but would expect that a rim would also not be effective for a near edge hit as well, especially hitting the rim.
@@ryanhadfield5306 hitting the rim, sure, but it should work fine for near edge hits, its just deflecting the shrapnel away by providing a "ramp".
European knights at one point actually had a overcoat that was used for arrow splinters/shrapnel much like the coatings and fabrics on plates and plate carriers function. It was phased out in favor of the rimmed armour.(except for the French who used both)
Course we don't know the reason it was phased out but it was replaced with the intricate rimmed armour edges, which provide the same function but for less weight so its fair to assume it was due to weight/cost/ effectiveness reasons.
Arrows are not bullets, but its worth investigating is my point.
got some lvl4 Hescos for pretty affordable the weight makes em good for pull ups lol, I found em to be cheaper then extra spall coat steel plates
Spall coat does shit
How much did u spend
@@Token_Black_Guy I bought some right before covidrona for like 250
Bought Medium Hesco 4400MC for around $230-$240 per plate from SKD Tactical. Heavy fuckers, but I’m happy with them.
Got RMA 1155s, those are good as well. I got them from apex armor solutions.
Friends don't let friends buy steel armor.
Love my steel armor. More durable and last longer after multiple hits. Yes cumbersome but I’ll take my chances. Oh that I mention it could take multiple hits in the same area? 👍🏽
@@vicdiaz5180 you are obviously oblivious to the videos circulating.
@@AsianWithHat at this point people have to be trolling
@@vicdiaz5180 bait
Damnit quit gear bullying me into making myself poor! Great and concise video yet again showing that just because something stop boolleet doesn't mean it's inherently good armor.
Just because an armor doesn't spall on the surface and can stop a couple rounds before disintegrating into dust, doesn't mean that there is no chance of fragmentation or ricochet, or that it's inherently good armor.
@@randyb3851 nothing is infallible but minimizing risk is the goal.
Dude i was literally sitting on the toilet when you said that. Your the man!
How can u not like this guys humor! Lot funnier then garrand thumb
It'd be cool to watch a test of steel vs ceramic on a full torso with organs and bones from ballisticdummy
Would be, too poor for channel
@@AdministrativeResults start a go fund me I'd donate to get that video up. End the test with 10lbs of tanerite kek
There’s a joke to be made about live targets here.
Great content with cool delivery, mate!
Best test would be a *wooden box,* with a steel plate mounted inside, facing the shooter at a *45°* and behind the plate (which is inside the box) should be a *clay block.*
You can catch 99% of any potential frags, under the worst scenario (45° angle - since that sends most frags towards your head) and measure the *backface deformation* in the clay
why would you be getting shot at from 45 degrees below you? from the left or right i get it, hell even 45 from above but i dont understand from below. Also its important to leave the plate inside a carrier as the carrier itself is spall protection. especially the more well made ones that use durable material.
@@X4Alpha4X Who said anything about bellow? Read my top comment again :)
@@foxtrotunit1269 you did. "since that sends most frags towards your head". last i checked your head is above your torso, and you typically don't just lean back at 45 degrees randomly.
@@X4Alpha4X Oh, I see what you mean. You're right I get it now, yeah.
My top comment is taking into account the fact that lots of guys have a belly, and so the plate is angled by 15-20 degrees, so testing at 45 degrees is a "margin of error" of sorts. Sound good?
FORWARD OPERATIONS GROUP PATCH lmaoooo this guy has a sick sense of humor
I have stumbled upon my new favorite firearms channel
Steel plates are for vehicles, not bodies. Why people still think they’re viable is mind-boggling. Just wait another month or two and save the extra bit to get decent plates. The extra coating on the AR500 plates runs the price up enough to justify never buying them over ceramic.
People have a “buy it now” mentality and don’t know how to wait
@@ja0298 Which is baffling since they want to be operators and get into gunfights, but not take the time to buy good kit.
@@k31owner46 I blame the Amazon prime consumerism mentality. That and just being having a poor and just as good mindset.
“A fool and his money are soon parted.”
Before watching the video i can tell you as me and my ex-infantry men friend spoke about this. Steel splinters when hit by a round, meaning shrapnel flies everywhere, potentially hitting you in the face/neck. Ceramic however is just as strong as steel, costs abit more but instead of splintering, Ceramic cracks upon impact making it a lot safer than steel. plus Ceramic weighs a little less making it easier to move about with. Their isn't really any negatives to ceramic, where as steel theirs tons, steel plates are just not safe.
not really any negatives to ceramic?? bro there were pass throughs on the second rifle. ceramic usually cant handle more than 2 rounds to the same spot. steel can take literally thousands of rounds. Also simply taking a hard fall onto a hard surface like a rock or concrete can crack a ceramic plate and if a bullet hits that crack it could pass through if its already on the top end of the rating. Also you already said it yourself but ceramics are more expensive. that's 3 negatives right there.
@@X4Alpha4X steel can take thousands of rounds, but that isn't really a plus - Coating or sleeves wouldn't last a couple shots to make that point matter.
Plus, the whole point is moot when it can't stop the same threats as ceramics in the same weight or price category. Armor have to work, period. If an M193 sails through it, then what's the point?
This is one of the reasons why the new NIJ will disqualify most steel plates on the market.
@@trechtzach8151 AR500 as a brand are the only producers to have had M193 pass through a plate. and that's not *because* it was steel, its was because they have terrible QC. Proper MIL-DTL-46100 will absolutely stop M193 3,400 fps without problem. I've personally tested it.
Also steel lasting thousands of rounds is 100% a plus. say you use your plate and take 5 hits, your spall liner is now compromised just like a ceramic plate would be. the difference however is now if you survived you can re apply another bed liner as a spall coat. wtf are you going to do with a pile of ceramic dust?
@Raylan Givens you are looking at 2 overlapping fantasies. Complete societal collapse, and the idea that you will be in rolling gun battles everyday. Even the US military isn't going through plates at the rate they think they are, which is causing problems for the industry.
@Raylan Givens re read what I said.
I don't mean to be "that guy," but the fragmentation that splashes out from an impact perpendicular to the plate on the front face isn't "spalling." Spalling would be the material that comes out directly behind the plate on the same trajectory (or a conical shape outward, centered around that point) as the bullet hitting the armor. I'm not sure if there's another technical term for what you're checking for here aside from fragmentation (perhaps it's actually called splash) but I simply know that spalling is a specific phenomenon that comes from engineering and material sciences. And I just happen to have researched it quite a bit while in school several years back for mechanical engineering.
basically it can be boiled down to tanker logic: Fragmentation is the stuff that bounces off the armor, spalling IS the armor once it becomes perforated and weaponized against whatever is behind it
No one seems to understand that, I just gave up correcting people.
Why not incorporate a kevlar/steel gorget at the top of the plate carrier to both catch spall and defend more area from direct hits?
Better yet, incorporate the gorget into the plate itself to deflect spall and provide additional coverage.
A lot of factors. Weight, mobility, and endurance being a few. Average level 4 armor with ceramic plates weighs about 30 lbs and already limits mobility. Now imagine walking around wearing it all day in the heat while doing whatever you do. Gets tiring quick. Wanna add more weight?
@@michaellarocca4879 2 more pounds to stop shrapnel from cutting my jugular, yeah I'll take that.
@@michaellarocca4879 but no civilians are going to be operating like a military unit, we're not doing foot patrols in afghanistans hills or 20 miles behind enemy lines, we're defending burger town. a little extra weight isnt really an issue for the overwhelming majority of us imo.
@@alphawolfgang173 try living in Florida and working outside. Hell, just stand outside. My mother gave me shit about not working as many hours as i could when it was 110 all week (not that it was her business). I said "im going into this shop here. Get out of my car."
"Get out and do what?"
"Just fucking stand here as long as you can. Dont get in the car and turn on the AC".
I was gone 15 minutes. I came back, she was sitting in the car, AC on full blast and shivering bc she was sweating from her 7 minutes in the heat. She wasnt in Afghanistan, and she wasnt on foot patrol. She spent 7 minutes in Florida heat in a T-shirt. Now imagine adding armor to that equation.
@@michaellarocca4879 ok then dont live where the weather kills you? why would you live in florida?
I like your channel's name.. Administrative Result, instead of Executive Outcomes. Also with the knight.
If your plate takes that many hits. You have made some serious bad decisions
or youre in a vehicle that got ambushed. i think steel is a decent option for someone that may be in a more static position.
@Shinshocks get a better vest lol
@Shinshocks thats a plate, not vest
Remember kids, there’s no excuse to buy steel plates when RMA 1155s are $300 a set
And if you want to shave off weight, MIRA safety has a level 4 that's 2.4lbs lighter per plate for $500/pair.
remember kids, ceramic has a short shelf life and can be compromised if dropped on the ground or dipped in water. also it loses surface area when shot. the only upside is weight savings. *Shrug*
Weight
So after you shot it ten times with all kinds of crap, then there was a bit of spalding damage... How many times do you plan on getting shot before they dome you anyhow?
10 times I guess
@@AdministrativeResults I'm just one of those who doesn't see this as a huge issue. I have both, and I doubt if I were by some I'll fate ever involved in a shooting. I doubt I would have it on.
“Why wear this balaclava?” Has shown his face since (which by the way looks awesome)
the intro is really mind blowing