What does the question have to do with anything other than Trump supporters to boost their rhetoric that somehow the straight white male is the most endangered species in America? If they asked any non white Hockey player what it’s like to be black in a predominantly white sport, I would think it’s equally stacked for political reasons. Don’t ask why everyone isn’t asking this question, ask why it’s so important to you that this question gets air time?
I well remember when there were very few black players in any of the major sports, and athletic ability wasn't the issue. I remember when haters called the New York Knickerbockers, the Niggerbockers because they had 5 black starters. White men in America have never been locked out of anything simply because they were white. Black men were locked out by tradition (whites only) because white men didn't want the competition.
He Who Greets With Fire while you’re absolutely right on racism in sports for many decades but there is absolutely racial bias in sports-white guards in the NBA-white CBs in the NFL-up until about 10 years ago black QBs in the NFL...black NHL players....black catchers in MLB etc
@@melvin3997 I was talking about now. Besides if Jackie Robinson couldn't play he wouldn't won over fans, teammates and eventually opposing players like he did. So it still applies.
Rufus Goldstein I’m sure you Amy be speaking about “today” however. As a whole the NBA is less respected than it was I. The 80’s. Why? They’ll tell it’s heart. Love of the game, blah, blah, blah. However I believe it’s more so because of the decline of (white) (American) players in the league. Sure the black players respect anyone that can play but I can’t say that for the other way around. They stand and cheer for white scrubs like Brian Scalabrini, Matthew Delladova ect. But you don’t get that same respect for black scrubs. Just my opinion. Thanks for the exchange. Merry Christmas
I think it is because they are playing against other white Europeans... White Americans are going through Black Americans...and if we are being honest, think about all the black players that don't get better because they also have to go against and play with Black Americans. AAU teams have 9-11 players. 2-3 of them are usually really good and the other kids are just there to help pay for the team. By the time they get to the high school level most of the "other" kids have either quit, or just haven't got much better because Americans (both white and black) get all their court time in AAU. American coached suck for the most part, there is very few teachers of the game, we are left with guys that are just usinig 2-3 kids to win games.
When Legler said “Is it catch & shoot or am I taking it off a rack?” and he said “does it matter?” I was like okay this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about lol
@@dlt9784 STILL dominated And won 3 championships and 3 MVPs and TOLD dudes what he was about to do and told them they couldnt stop him and they couldnt..u can lie to yourself like he didnt dominate but he DID I saw it and grew up in it..it wasn't JUST HYPE..And Isiah Thomas was as dominant as Magic and Bird and was 9 inches shorter and sidnt get his due,Won 2 championships and was more dominant than Allen Iverson who never won a Ring.granted he didnt have the teams Bird had.But a few players that where Great Around Dr Jay era and beginning of Jordan Era get forgotten about Like Isiah Thomas and Bernard King,Larry Bird was up there with Quality players and Dominating and that's a FACT and he would do even better today with No hand checking.
In the sixties and the early seventies most teams were still mostly. Remember in 74 and 76 the Celtics won with Havilcek a white player as their best player. In 75 Golden State won with Rick Barry and 77 Portland won with Bill Walton both white players. It is funny how do many people can forget that basketball is a majority white sport. Just the best players happen to be Black Americans.
Miss he and Sean Elliott on the show. I know it was yrs back, but my fav duo. They'd give their takes, sometimes agree, at times not. Always respectful and informative. .
I remember watching Legler play back in his days as an Omaha Racer. He was a fan favorite and one of the best guys on the team. Glad he made it to the big time.
Look at the ex Bulls. Forget MJ and Pip . Wennington, Perdue, Stacey King, BJ all parlayed the team success into post playing careers. Kerr too, but that's a different story. He's great in his own way.
@@trillville3503 As soon as he said he was applying online I questioned it just lIke the 1st guy that commented on it. I think he just mis-spoke or your 100% right about Nebraska having the greatest dial-up service ever!!
Yea the intranet evolved into the internet and yes it actually has been around for decades it jus wasn't available for public use until late 80s early 90s
The biggest problem with the approach to this conversation, is that nobody wants to use empirical evidence. This is a detailed story, painting if you will, and you don't create a complex painting, using broad strokes of paint. You have very obvious details and maybe some obscure ones. There are reasons as to why this is, and we should be able to have some civil discussions around it. The fact that in most cases, on UA-cam, it seems.....we can't. Which further's the notion to me, that race is actually a huge question in global society. I just hope that we continue to force dialogue in this manner, we don't just get cultural fatigue and say "race doesn't have anything to do with it, end of story".....that's just not true. The more we continue to ignore race & cultural differences as a factor in this country the more angrier we'll become whenever it's brought up.
I don't believe you know what you are talking about. Race is a social construct and not represented biologically. The genetic difference between any two individuals in the world are between 1-3%. This is hard for people to cope with and understand because they have been raised in a society that emphasizes "racial differences". The only difference collectively between "racial" groups arise from differences in culture, not biology. We are one of the species with the least amount of genetic diversity in the world. I'm not sure where you are coming from because your comment was rather vague, but if you are trying to say that there are consistent biological similarities between what we in America define as "races", then that is just not true in the slightest. On the other hand, there are definitely cultural differences that impact people who are put in racial categories, but not everyone who is grouped into the same race have the same culture.
....first let me preface this with...I think we should take this convo off this reply section and inbox each other. However, the genetic difference between a chimpanzee and a human beings is 1.23%. So when you say the genetic difference between two humans is 1-3%, that's disingenuous when you don't put it in the perspective of over a billion genetic material. There are three primary racial identities accepted by the scientific community, even the mythical places that you say don't acknowledge "racial differences". What place doesn't acknowledge racial differences? It's important to understand the difference between what a country wants to portray and what actually happens in that country. Brazil is a PERFECT example of this. It is true that not everyone in a race is apart of the same culture....in fact we have subcultures that have a variety of components.....environmental, historical, and even social patterns. We won't find a conclusion in just two messages but, i'm a little more read than just someone who has only been exposed to societies that identify "racial differences"
Sorry, I meant to type .1-.3%. Anyways, what are you trying to prove? I was discrediting the claim, that you may or may not believe in, that races can be identified strictly on a biological basis. Races that we know today are socially constructed and differ from culture to culture. These socially constructed races can not be verified on a genetic basis. That's all I'm saying.
Alec Williamson but your basis for making that statement is a percentage of difference on the genetic code. The part that's reaching about that, is that the difference in the genetic code, no matter how small, can lead to some monumental changes in appearances and attributes as seen throughout nature. The scientific community is not all sold on "race" being a purely social construct, but rather a mixture of physical appearance, geographical place, linguistics etc. Biology to some aspect has played a part in the identification of the 3 primary racial distinctions. It's what people use for gene mapping, and finding out where they originated form over 2500 years ago, etc. You're saying that races can't be verified on a genetic basis, i'm saying that has some validity, but genetics is as much apart of an attribute as social constructs.
I have never heard of these 3 primary racial distinctions before and will continue to doubt that heavily until I have been presented with strong empirical data. The thing is, I am not sold on these small genetic differences between each of us being substantial in any way. Races we know today are socially constructed from very small, insignificant biological differences such as skin color and facial structures. These differences mean nothing until we add meaning to them and assign our prejudices to them. The idea that you can define race tends to be unrealistic as well. Races are poorly defined to begin with and are constantly changing and have been changing ever since humans have created societies. Even if you can somehow organize everyone in the world into specific racial groups based purely on genetic differences what good does it do? How different can they actually be from each other? In the end you are only going to influence the uninformed that races are distinct from each other when they are really not. That will lead to philosophies like Eugenics which primarily influence events like the Holocaust.
Very interesting.. From a basketball perspective and me being a ballplayer, I use to take notes from watching shooters like TIM LEGLER and others.. I never realized what he had to go through to finally make it to the NBA.. MUCH RESPECT FOR NOT GIVING UP
Love Tim.. great interview... most ppl today would be sensitive about the questions but these guys are from a different era so the understanding of an interview and answering questions without getting angry. Love this
Most pros can shoot all day practicing but when you play the game shooting is totaly different even steph won't hit 50 straight 3 pointers in a game situation that said legs was a good shooter and an honest guy much respect
I think Channing Tatum could of been good, but he went to other careers. Maybe some of them should place more emphasis on workouts to make them more athletic while maintaining some muscle.
Larry Bird was no way near the athleticism of his opponents but found other ways to become the legend he is today. It ain't the colour, its the skills.
And It's not the color, it's the genetics! Try to stop being stupid, while trying to sound intelligent..... People are not skin tones, their genetical chromazone....... caucasians are not Melenated people!
Miami Heat , Denver Nuggets, and the Dallas Mavs. I can take the best white boys off those teams and put a playoff team on the floor that would make a serious run. Most complete back in the NFL is Christian McCaffrey. The world is changing..
Growing up playing ball in North Carolina, Anywhere I went to play ball... I was a minority and the other white dudes were to timid to touch the ball. Or play defense. And the darker ethnic crowd or hip hop culture ... It doesn't matter what they are but they're just not apart of the Andy Griffith crowd wouldnt want me touching the ball, when I finally do get a rebound. Dudes stop playing and just look at me rolling their eyes. Not realizing.... All I did was touch a basketball in my free time. I didn't like video games, TV, girlfriends or whatever most white dudes did... I used to take my ball and go around the neighborhood playing on any goal til night time. Rain never stopped me.... I got to a point where I could tell if people ball by the way they walk or touch a ball. I didn't need to see them dribble or shoot. I used to make everyone watching look in amazement because I could dribble and shoot like it was all natural... I had done Jordan's post up fadeaway shot so much, while for some reason no one practices that move like it's the sickest basketball movement you can do. I honestly had a hard time understanding why a lot of these dudes are even here if they're not balling 24/7. And yet think because of my skin tone I shouldn't touch a ball. It got real old having dedication and determination being totally disregarded because of people's view of a social conflict within themself. I'm not judging anything... I don't even disrespect anyone if they can't dribble. I look the other way and box out for the rebound because I know it's a brick. But from my experience... People want social conflict if there isn't. It's annoying. You can't play and don't want to get embarrassed is what I see. In my 30s now and have no reason to play... It feels good to go out there but you can see the judgment in people's eyes. But now... Since I've grown up. My court awareness is pretty wild yet athleticism is not good at all. I actually can get a lot of respect by simply setting dudes up for easy buckets and tight defense (and it's been ten years since I played, if you put the time in... You can get respect regardless of color, respect yourself)
Love what you said. I'm also white and in my 30's. From Flint,MI. I would shovel the snow off courts in the winters and would play from the time I woke up till I had to come home at night. Basketball has always been my #1 outlet.
4 роки тому+5
try being an asian in the nba. Yao Ming, Jeremy Lin, that's all i can name.
I remember being at a game between the Hawks and the Mavs. I watched Tim start torching Stacy Augman. Then it happened. Stacy pushed Tim down and kicked him down the court. The refs turned their heads like nothing happened. I liked Tim he was a good shooter.
You could go online before the internet existed. Commodore 64 computers came with a modem and those came out in 1982 I believe? It wasn't websites, it was Bulletin boards and Newsgroups in the 80s. There was email then too. The internet became public in 1993.
Love, Korver, and Redick have spoken on this topic recently. The white guys don't shy away from it. Plus with guys like Jokic, Luka, Dirk, and Nash still having the ability to be elite; it is not like white guys have no chance for roster spots.
@@drechillin2154 -- Hayward is definitely a star, but with the Celtics he takes a back seat to make others comfortable. I'm not sure he can shine with Kemba, Brown, and Tatum. With so many good players it is hard for any of them to stand out. There are still a lot of guys I didn't mention like Sabonis, Bagdonovic, Nurkic and more. There are even some up and comers like Herro and DiVincenzo.
@@drechillin2154 -- He was a multiple time all-star in Utah in the Western conference which was hard to do. He was in his 20s. He was pretty well known in the gaming community as well. He was at least on his way to being a star. The injury and playing with talented team mates has taken away from that. I think being known outside of basketball has a lot to do with the term star. People need a reason to want to see you. You can definitely question if he was a star. He was at least close.
This is analogous to there being zero white guys who have played cornerback in the NFL for years. Even white receivers are given the nickname of “white lightning”. Black players respect the speed of foot. David Stern and the NBA recognized this long ago and had to import white skin from Europe in order prevent there being 10-12 completely all black teams. It was disguised as taking the NBA brand global, but was really all about the need to lighten up the league. The Knicks once had an all black team and the league was not about to let that happen again, even if it had to import its white skin. Image and appearance is everything. It became hard to advertise the NBA as having the world’s greatest athletes and only a handful of American born white athletes were on the floor.
there have been times when I have been the only white guy on the court (non pro), and it was a lot like legler said, you get respect (if you can play). one interesting thing I can say is that I don't think I ever got hurt by a black guy. but whites and mexicans will foul you hard sometimes to compensate for their lack of athletisism, where blacks seem to take more pride and put more effort into their skills.
I like Legler great straight forward analyst. Bob Sura was my guy im an FSU fan. And yeah blacks was ballin hard especially the 80s and 90s. Plus are naturally faster stronger & jump higher than mpst races.
There's a bit of a hole in his story. You where filling out your paperwork for Villanova Law School on line two years after you graduated college? Did the internet even exist back then???
CBA stood for Continental Basketball Association, not Canadian. Even if it was Canadian, who cares? The NBA has a team in Toronto, so exactly what Nation does National Basketball Association refer to?
BS. If there were a white guy with same skills but same height as Spud Webb, Mugsy Bogues he wouldn't even play D1 much less NBA. Color does come into play.
the athletic breeding theory is complete BS. the way genes work has very little to do with breeding. it takes hundreds of generations to produce any real permanent change in an isolated gene pool, let alone an open gene pool (like in the modern world). not to mention almost all "black" people (excluding those that have recently immigrated from Africa) are part "white". the real reason "black" people are good at sports is the sub culture that is African American. kids grow up around the sports, playing the game from when they're very young. I've played video games from a very young age, and as a result I'm very good at them. it almost looks like I'm genetically predisposed to be good at video games. but I promise you, I'm not. its a cultural thing, not a genetic one.
Shut the fuck up; you don't know what the hell you are talking about! You can't compare playing sports to playing video games. Video games is an hand-eye coordination, not a physical gift. White people make up almost 80% of the country which consists of well over 300 million people; black people aren't even the second majority, it's Mexicans. Black people make up 11%, and you are trying to tell me that more black kids only grow up playing sports than white kids? Gtfoh with that nonsense. You're an idiot for making such remarks!
Jamell Jenkins chill out dude. I actually do know what I'm talking about. the united states is one large culture with literally millions of subcultures. and yes Hispanics (not Mexicans) are the largest minority I don't get what that has to do with anything I said. of course African American culture is more complex that simple basketball. some black kids play dungeons and dragons and couldn't throw a ball to save their lives. rather than growing up to be an NBA star, they might get a Job as an IT specialist. I wouldn't say that more black kids grow up playing sports than white kids. but by and large for MANY reasons, not as many white people peruse basketball, or football as a career when compared to black people. But thats a really complex topic that goes far beyond youtube comments. ask yourself, if black people are somehow genetically bred to be physically superior like the Aryan race (fyi in an open gene pool that kind of genetic specialization is utterly impossible, evolution like that takes hundreds of thousands, to millions of years, not hundreds) then why aren't black people dominating in literally every sport. they don't really dominate much in the way of baseball, or Soccer. race is pretty evenly distributed between the races in other sports like wrestling. and even football has lots of white players. basketball is one of the only sports that is completely dominated by black players. ask yourself why that is. and while you're at it why don't you go read about to the Social Construction of Race. you should start with W. E. B. Du Bois.
Very accurate assesment but too much time waisted on a youtube crowd where random insults will recieve more thumps up then logical analysis of topics. Jamell here would like to believe that he is genetically more athletic and not the simple idea that those atheletes that are at the top of their proffesions simply have worked the hardest throughout their whole lives. Self-ritches view to have not to mention the fact that in a sense it undermines the accomplishments of those that have worked so hard to be where they are.
Jamell Jenkins I beg to differ. I think i made my self very clear JJ, and to me its not a major task to type up one paragraph, i didn't think i said ALL THAT.
We need more diversity in basketball. The government needs to get involved to ensure we are fighting systemic racism in professional sports. Universities strive toward diversity in the classroom but fail to be consistent in their sports programs as well. These opportunities need to be provide to people of all regardless of the color of their skin.
HBO Real Sports has a good segment about the rising costs of youth sports. In 10-15 years the face of sports will be different as rich white kids come of age.
Love, Korver, and Redick have spoken on this topic recently. The white guys don't shy away from it. Plus with guys like Jokic, Luka, Dirk, and Nash still having the ability to be elite; it is not like white guys have no chance for roster spots.
zlw1998 J.J. Watt is the best white player in the league with the exception of the QB position, actually the best Defensive Player in the league, I hope he wins the MVP. Lol Jason Sehorn. There are very good white players though, plenty really.
Weber562 I was responding to original comment of there being no white RB's. I'm aware Watt is white; Luke Kuechly, Harrison Smith, Eric Weddle are also dominant white defensive players. I was just saying how there is a lack of white corners.
I don't think anyone has the answer here so far that has convinced me, and I do not know of an answer. But one factor that I think is ignored is: look at the cost of entry to play basketball. Shoes, and maybe a ball, and hopefully some nearby public or school courts. Now, hopefully you can get to a coach that is good, or you can get an indoor court so you aren't in bad weather and beating your knees on asphalt all the time too, but the basic training needs are cheap. Even maintaining a basic level (not stadium) basketball court is significantly cheaper over long periods of time than a grass field. Almost every other sport requires significantly more investment financially.
aligboyakasha, that is certainly true and the paucity of jobs in the hood would provide the time to perfect one's skills. However in the 60s and early 70s African-American players dominated baseball and higher numbers in the National League provided a big performance advantage relative to the American League.
Has nothing to do with race. Has to do with origins. Whites typically come from hearty cold areas where strength means more than speed and jumping. Blacks where in hotter open flat land where speed and longer distances and quick movements were preferred.
You win the prize. Most racist comment. Jim Bob from Alabama who has never seen snow is white. Antoine from the South Side of Chicago probably made some extra bucks as a kid shoveling snow. Keep your stupidity to yourself.
nope. it has more to do with economic opportunity. sports entertainment have always been a poor mans job. african americans were disenfranchised during most of the countries history and the best opportunities they had to make a living was to be a musician, or athlete. so they specialized their culture in music and athletics.
***** That's not true. It may have some residue around being a pro basketball or football player today, but even that's debatable. Basketball use to be played by a majority of white players at most major universities. That sticks a whole in your theory. Truth is, when given opportunity, more often than not, it appears that blacks seem to be more dominant physically speaking. That doesn't mean 100 percent of the time, but when given exposure, it tends to be that way. Now what other things can you add? Maybe, there is a correlation between the mentality of someone who plays the game because they love it, and another guy who plays because his and his family's livelihood depended on it. There isn't a one size, fits all reason....and that's ok. Discussion on the topics should be encouraged and various ideas considered.
JCMthebrand Ur right man, I don't know why people shy away from this type of convo, its blatantly in front of us as a society of spectators. The other thing I find is that African Americans display more raw pride than whites in most occasions, they play the game emotionally on a another level, think about smack-talk, pump-up speeches, and celebration after scoring or winning, and all that def has something to do with the upbringing in their respective lives. Not that White Americans aren't emotional either, it just doesn't always show in sports on the same degree as African American players. Like hockey players giving the same old boring answers in their interviews, unlike Richard Sherman or Kevin Garnett lol which is truly inspiring and funny at the same time, and just so raw. Let's say u put 2 guys who are physically identical in ability and size in a ring but 1 is white and the other is black, we don't know their individual backgrounds, who would u bet on to win that fight? I'd say the black guy historically will win that fight, he'll want it more, and has more to prove.
Weber562 me as black man, it's not genetic, it's the desire of the individuals. Race doesn't determine success, it's effort. If u say to an Asian kid, you're smart because you're Asian, they tend to be offended because it's not taken into account the hardwork and effort to get good grades etc. Whites have excelled like Joel Calzhage, Jason Williams, Larry Bird, Steve Largeant, Jordie Nelson because they wanted it.
What is it like to be a white player in the nba? Sort of like being a typical black person in America. Unless u r in the hood, get used to either being the only one or one of a handful in Every room. U Stick out like a sore thumb.
Tim it's full of it the NBA was majority-white up until the 70s and the only reason that changed is because of the dismantling of the ABA which was majority African Brothers
Well, at least he didn't have to sleep in separate hotels and be refused at restaurants like the one or two black players on predominantly white basketball teams in the early days of supposed desegregation. Of course we all remember a time when black and white players couldn't even be on the same court, let alone the same team.
I like how these guys come straight out and ask questions that some people are too afraid to.
@Bo Stephens ✊🏾
What does the question have to do with anything other than Trump supporters to boost their rhetoric that somehow the straight white male is the most endangered species in America? If they asked any non white Hockey player what it’s like to be black in a predominantly white sport, I would think it’s equally stacked for political reasons. Don’t ask why everyone isn’t asking this question, ask why it’s so important to you that this question gets air time?
They aren't white so they can without being called racist by idiot libtards
Naw, there just baiting questions
@@BoardwalkBillionaire well said! Should get more likes but people are stupid.
It’s way harder to make it as a white cornerback in the NFL.
Agreed.
Wow never looked at it like that lol
Can u say UNICORN😂
I well remember when there were very few black players in any of the major sports, and athletic ability wasn't the issue. I remember when haters called the New York Knickerbockers, the Niggerbockers because they had 5 black starters. White men in America have never been locked out of anything simply because they were white. Black men were locked out by tradition (whites only) because white men didn't want the competition.
He Who Greets With Fire while you’re absolutely right on racism in sports for many decades but there is absolutely racial bias in sports-white guards in the NBA-white CBs in the NFL-up until about 10 years ago black QBs in the NFL...black NHL players....black catchers in MLB etc
If you can play, guys will respect you no matter what you look like.
Rufus Goldstein truth
You should be respected whether you're the best player or the last man on the 15-man roster.
Rufus Goldstein tell that to the players that played in the Negro League.
@@melvin3997 I was talking about now. Besides if Jackie Robinson couldn't play he wouldn't won over fans, teammates and eventually opposing players like he did. So it still applies.
Rufus Goldstein I’m sure you Amy be speaking about “today” however. As a whole the NBA is less respected than it was I. The 80’s. Why? They’ll tell it’s heart. Love of the game, blah, blah, blah. However I believe it’s more so because of the decline of (white) (American) players in the league. Sure the black players respect anyone that can play but I can’t say that for the other way around. They stand and cheer for white scrubs like Brian Scalabrini, Matthew Delladova ect. But you don’t get that same respect for black scrubs. Just my opinion. Thanks for the exchange. Merry Christmas
Nowadays there's more European players in the league then White Americans 🤔
Very true
Richard Williams still Caucasian
They grow up believing they can do it. Self-confidence counts for a lot.
@@Se0420_ Yeag but different cultures and work ethics..The Europeans seem tougher too.ESPECIALLY Eastern Europeans
I think it is because they are playing against other white Europeans... White Americans are going through Black Americans...and if we are being honest, think about all the black players that don't get better because they also have to go against and play with Black Americans. AAU teams have 9-11 players. 2-3 of them are usually really good and the other kids are just there to help pay for the team. By the time they get to the high school level most of the "other" kids have either quit, or just haven't got much better because Americans (both white and black) get all their court time in AAU. American coached suck for the most part, there is very few teachers of the game, we are left with guys that are just usinig 2-3 kids to win games.
Brent Price and Mark Price in a shooting match with Legler my lord, they must have went through tons of nets.
King Kanyon #25 Mark was nice...he owned cleveland b4 Lebron..he was watching him growing up
Never really liked Dan’s take on sports, but he does ask the questions u want the answers to.
I love dan .
When Legler said “Is it catch & shoot or am I taking it off a rack?” and he said “does it matter?” I was like okay this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about lol
Oh si, si, 11th Woods, I'm very intrigued
This is why Bird was such a shocking phenomenon. It was a white dude who was dominating cats
Couldn't run, couldn't jump, bad back. Truly a phenom
@@dlt9784 STILL dominated And won 3 championships and 3 MVPs and TOLD dudes what he was about to do and told them they couldnt stop him and they couldnt..u can lie to yourself like he didnt dominate but he DID I saw it and grew up in it..it wasn't JUST HYPE..And Isiah Thomas was as dominant as Magic and Bird and was 9 inches shorter and sidnt get his due,Won 2 championships and was more dominant than Allen Iverson who never won a Ring.granted he didnt have the teams Bird had.But a few players that where Great Around Dr Jay era and beginning of Jordan Era get forgotten about Like Isiah Thomas and Bernard King,Larry Bird was up there with Quality players and Dominating and that's a FACT and he would do even better today with No hand checking.
@@jalvarez8204 I wasn't being sarcastic. It's awesome what he could do despite those issues
@@dlt9784 Ohh my bad..I thought u where taking shots..yeah man and the guy was SUPER CLUTCH on top of THAT
In the sixties and the early seventies most teams were still mostly. Remember in 74 and 76 the Celtics won with Havilcek a white player as their best player. In 75 Golden State won with Rick Barry and 77 Portland won with Bill Walton both white players. It is funny how do many people can forget that basketball is a majority white sport. Just the best players happen to be Black Americans.
Legs seems like a cool guy. Someone you might wanna grab a beer with.
Miss he and Sean Elliott on the show. I know it was yrs back, but my fav duo. They'd give their takes, sometimes agree, at times not.
Always respectful and informative. .
I like Legs hes a good analyst
Real talk
No question
Still is
Still is
7 UP. hood game. go ahead Tim
Glad I got to watch him and the others back then..game felt more pure then
He looks like Ken Shamrock.
Get out of my wayyyyyyyy!!!!!!!
You're right. It's the chin.
sooperklew shamrock😅😅😅😅
Fc
Yeah ...with a positive face
Damn these comments are weird, Tim Legs is a real dude
He is so so so cute 😍😍🥰🥰😍🥰🤩🤩
I appreciate this point of view
that cba game story is hilarious. hit a nice clean 19 footer at the buzzer and lose by 1 lol
I remember watching Legler play back in his days as an Omaha Racer. He was a fan favorite and one of the best guys on the team. Glad he made it to the big time.
Raymond Johnson y didn't he make it big
Guranteed, this guy is making more 💰 now than 100's of players that had better careers.
Look at the ex Bulls. Forget MJ and Pip . Wennington, Perdue, Stacey King, BJ all parlayed the team success into post playing careers.
Kerr too, but that's a different story. He's great in his own way.
Apparently Omaha had the internet in 1989??
nice
Best internet dial up of the year back then...
@@trillville3503 As soon as he said he was applying online I questioned it just lIke the 1st guy that commented on it. I think he just mis-spoke or your 100% right about Nebraska having the greatest dial-up service ever!!
Yea the intranet evolved into the internet and yes it actually has been around for decades it jus wasn't available for public use until late 80s early 90s
I had Internet in 1994, but it didn't hit the big time until a couple of years after that.
The biggest problem with the approach to this conversation, is that nobody wants to use empirical evidence. This is a detailed story, painting if you will, and you don't create a complex painting, using broad strokes of paint. You have very obvious details and maybe some obscure ones. There are reasons as to why this is, and we should be able to have some civil discussions around it. The fact that in most cases, on UA-cam, it seems.....we can't. Which further's the notion to me, that race is actually a huge question in global society. I just hope that we continue to force dialogue in this manner, we don't just get cultural fatigue and say "race doesn't have anything to do with it, end of story".....that's just not true. The more we continue to ignore race & cultural differences as a factor in this country the more angrier we'll become whenever it's brought up.
I don't believe you know what you are talking about. Race is a social construct and not represented biologically. The genetic difference between any two individuals in the world are between 1-3%. This is hard for people to cope with and understand because they have been raised in a society that emphasizes "racial differences". The only difference collectively between "racial" groups arise from differences in culture, not biology. We are one of the species with the least amount of genetic diversity in the world. I'm not sure where you are coming from because your comment was rather vague, but if you are trying to say that there are consistent biological similarities between what we in America define as "races", then that is just not true in the slightest. On the other hand, there are definitely cultural differences that impact people who are put in racial categories, but not everyone who is grouped into the same race have the same culture.
....first let me preface this with...I think we should take this convo off this reply section and inbox each other. However, the genetic difference between a chimpanzee and a human beings is 1.23%. So when you say the genetic difference between two humans is 1-3%, that's disingenuous when you don't put it in the perspective of over a billion genetic material. There are three primary racial identities accepted by the scientific community, even the mythical places that you say don't acknowledge "racial differences". What place doesn't acknowledge racial differences? It's important to understand the difference between what a country wants to portray and what actually happens in that country. Brazil is a PERFECT example of this. It is true that not everyone in a race is apart of the same culture....in fact we have subcultures that have a variety of components.....environmental, historical, and even social patterns. We won't find a conclusion in just two messages but, i'm a little more read than just someone who has only been exposed to societies that identify "racial differences"
Sorry, I meant to type .1-.3%. Anyways, what are you trying to prove? I was discrediting the claim, that you may or may not believe in, that races can be identified strictly on a biological basis. Races that we know today are socially constructed and differ from culture to culture. These socially constructed races can not be verified on a genetic basis. That's all I'm saying.
Alec Williamson but your basis for making that statement is a percentage of difference on the genetic code. The part that's reaching about that, is that the difference in the genetic code, no matter how small, can lead to some monumental changes in appearances and attributes as seen throughout nature. The scientific community is not all sold on "race" being a purely social construct, but rather a mixture of physical appearance, geographical place, linguistics etc. Biology to some aspect has played a part in the identification of the 3 primary racial distinctions. It's what people use for gene mapping, and finding out where they originated form over 2500 years ago, etc. You're saying that races can't be verified on a genetic basis, i'm saying that has some validity, but genetics is as much apart of an attribute as social constructs.
I have never heard of these 3 primary racial distinctions before and will continue to doubt that heavily until I have been presented with strong empirical data. The thing is, I am not sold on these small genetic differences between each of us being substantial in any way. Races we know today are socially constructed from very small, insignificant biological differences such as skin color and facial structures. These differences mean nothing until we add meaning to them and assign our prejudices to them. The idea that you can define race tends to be unrealistic as well. Races are poorly defined to begin with and are constantly changing and have been changing ever since humans have created societies. Even if you can somehow organize everyone in the world into specific racial groups based purely on genetic differences what good does it do? How different can they actually be from each other? In the end you are only going to influence the uninformed that races are distinct from each other when they are really not. That will lead to philosophies like Eugenics which primarily influence events like the Holocaust.
That last shot, lose by 1 story is one of the greatest 'in-game' sports stories I have ever heard. I am in tears laughing. Respect to Tim Legler.
Not that funny man! Your in need of an education in comedy
@@getsbuckets YOU’RE, not YOUR. YOU’RE in need of elementary English meals lessons. While you’re criticizing the other guy’s sense of humor
Pure 3pt marksmen! N great analyst🏀💪💯
Very interesting..
From a basketball perspective and me being a ballplayer, I use to take notes from watching shooters like TIM LEGLER and others.. I never realized what he had to go through to finally make it to the NBA..
MUCH RESPECT FOR NOT GIVING UP
Upload more Highly Questionable my favorite ESPN show!
That's how I felt playing ball in Plymouth hence never shinning yet closer to London was different
He said that’s the white shooters club lol
John Jourdan don’t cut yourself with all that edge
0:21 Tim Legler chanelling his inner Adam Gase
NBA shoot around..I'M UNDEFEATED! NEVER LOST!!
Cuz we respect greatness that's why! He was a great player, love this guy
Legs was Tough Very Decent Person & Player
“ NICE INTERVIEW “
Much respect to Legs
Love Tim.. great interview... most ppl today would be sensitive about the questions but these guys are from a different era so the understanding of an interview and answering questions without getting angry. Love this
Great interview
I would’ve paid to watch a Legler and Mark Price shoot around talk about buckets 😂🏀
Dude hasn't aged in 10 years
didn't know Chael Sonnen was a really good basketball analyst as well!
Most pros can shoot all day practicing but when you play the game shooting is totaly different even steph won't hit 50 straight 3 pointers in a game situation that said legs was a good shooter and an honest guy much respect
Mark price shoots better than all of them
Til Steph, Mark was as great a shooter as there has been. He's still pretty close.
Such a good interview. Dan had more hair.
I think Channing Tatum could of been good, but he went to other careers. Maybe some of them should place more emphasis on workouts to make them more athletic while maintaining some muscle.
Larry Bird was no way near the athleticism of his opponents but found other ways to become the legend he is today. It ain't the colour, its the skills.
And intelligence and heart. Which Bird was head and shoulders above most
@@muckmire3716 Of course that aswell 🙂. Who would win a if Bird and Magic played 1v1??
And It's not the color, it's the genetics! Try to stop being stupid, while trying to sound intelligent.....
People are not skin tones, their genetical chromazone....... caucasians are not Melenated people!
"A collective groan in the crowd....."
This is one of the corniest shows on ESPN
That's the beauty of it. Embrace the corn my man.
Yet you're here!
White tears alert
$400 a week in CBA?
Super Kyle Yes. And we’re not talking the Chinese Basketball Association either lol
Not bad really considering.
@@selfishstockton6123 lol thats not bad that sounds like fun. He could of kept playing like that and did his lawyer school.
A better question is....What is it like being black in America?
Guys chill. The NBA creates a lot of African American millionaires. Let's be happy about that.
whats it like to be a jew and own a team
They should get Ron Artest on and ask him what it's like being a black player in the NBA.
Tyler herro is a baller
Time proved you to be correct.
Thid dude said he was applying to law school on line. That was in 89-90. Sure you were online then buddy
Miami Heat , Denver Nuggets, and the Dallas Mavs. I can take the best white boys off those teams and put a playoff team on the floor that would make a serious run. Most complete back in the NFL is Christian McCaffrey. The world is changing..
You fucking stupid. Don't let an all black team get out together
If someone can play they can play nothing else matters
Wow... a 2 pointer to lose by 1!
Growing up playing ball in North Carolina, Anywhere I went to play ball... I was a minority and the other white dudes were to timid to touch the ball. Or play defense. And the darker ethnic crowd or hip hop culture ... It doesn't matter what they are but they're just not apart of the Andy Griffith crowd wouldnt want me touching the ball, when I finally do get a rebound. Dudes stop playing and just look at me rolling their eyes. Not realizing.... All I did was touch a basketball in my free time. I didn't like video games, TV, girlfriends or whatever most white dudes did... I used to take my ball and go around the neighborhood playing on any goal til night time. Rain never stopped me.... I got to a point where I could tell if people ball by the way they walk or touch a ball. I didn't need to see them dribble or shoot. I used to make everyone watching look in amazement because I could dribble and shoot like it was all natural... I had done Jordan's post up fadeaway shot so much, while for some reason no one practices that move like it's the sickest basketball movement you can do. I honestly had a hard time understanding why a lot of these dudes are even here if they're not balling 24/7. And yet think because of my skin tone I shouldn't touch a ball.
It got real old having dedication and determination being totally disregarded because of people's view of a social conflict within themself. I'm not judging anything... I don't even disrespect anyone if they can't dribble. I look the other way and box out for the rebound because I know it's a brick. But from my experience... People want social conflict if there isn't. It's annoying.
You can't play and don't want to get embarrassed is what I see.
In my 30s now and have no reason to play... It feels good to go out there but you can see the judgment in people's eyes. But now... Since I've grown up. My court awareness is pretty wild yet athleticism is not good at all. I actually can get a lot of respect by simply setting dudes up for easy buckets and tight defense (and it's been ten years since I played, if you put the time in... You can get respect regardless of color, respect yourself)
Love what you said. I'm also white and in my 30's. From Flint,MI. I would shovel the snow off courts in the winters and would play from the time I woke up till I had to come home at night. Basketball has always been my #1 outlet.
try being an asian in the nba. Yao Ming, Jeremy Lin, that's all i can name.
Yao Ming is the only other Asian and the kid from Gonzaga that was drafted by Washington.
Zhou Qi and Yi Jianlin are others off the top of my head
Also, Rui Hachimura is the guy from Japan
@ I was clarifying the "kid from Gonzaga that was drafted by Washington" that Catherine Williams was replying
@@nicholasthomas7659 I couldn't remember his name. Thank you.
The reason there is 15 is because The NBA isn't racist like the NHL. That's why there's way less Black players in the NHL.
I remember being at a game between the Hawks and the Mavs. I watched Tim start torching Stacy Augman. Then it happened. Stacy pushed Tim down and kicked him down the court. The refs turned their heads like nothing happened. I liked Tim he was a good shooter.
🧐
Jeremy Lin too got hacked and refs didn't call much.
*Augmon aka Plastic Man. UNLV legend
There was "online" during his 2nd year out of college?
Idan Solon Uhhh, yeah. 1990.
You could go online before the internet existed. Commodore 64 computers came with a modem and those came out in 1982 I believe? It wasn't websites, it was Bulletin boards and Newsgroups in the 80s. There was email then too. The internet became public in 1993.
That's what I was thinking lol good one
@@TRJ2241987 91
imagine legler daring to speak about this today.
Love, Korver, and Redick have spoken on this topic recently. The white guys don't shy away from it. Plus with guys like Jokic, Luka, Dirk, and Nash still having the ability to be elite; it is not like white guys have no chance for roster spots.
Semi Hayward
@@drechillin2154 -- Hayward is definitely a star, but with the Celtics he takes a back seat to make others comfortable. I'm not sure he can shine with Kemba, Brown, and Tatum. With so many good players it is hard for any of them to stand out. There are still a lot of guys I didn't mention like Sabonis, Bagdonovic, Nurkic and more. There are even some up and comers like Herro and DiVincenzo.
Semi I wouldn’t say star
@@drechillin2154 -- He was a multiple time all-star in Utah in the Western conference which was hard to do. He was in his 20s. He was pretty well known in the gaming community as well. He was at least on his way to being a star. The injury and playing with talented team mates has taken away from that. I think being known outside of basketball has a lot to do with the term star. People need a reason to want to see you.
You can definitely question if he was a star. He was at least close.
85 3 pointers in a row? almost unbelievable
The last shall be first.
I’m a huge fan of Tim Legler...honest, real, and fair
Facts my favorite analysts
I am amazed liberal ESPN hasn't deleted this video.
This is analogous to there being zero white guys who have played cornerback in the NFL for years. Even white receivers are given the nickname of “white lightning”. Black players respect the speed of foot. David Stern and the NBA recognized this long ago and had to import white skin from Europe in order prevent there being 10-12 completely all black teams. It was disguised as taking the NBA brand global, but was really all about the need to lighten up the league. The Knicks once had an all black team and the league was not about to let that happen again, even if it had to import its white skin. Image and appearance is everything. It became hard to advertise the NBA as having the world’s greatest athletes and only a handful of American born white athletes were on the floor.
Nathan Hollis Lmao you can’t actually believe that right?
@Fredrick Frederickson do u think they'd get the same shot?
there have been times when I have been the only white guy on the court (non pro), and it was a lot like legler said, you get respect (if you can play). one interesting thing I can say is that I don't think I ever got hurt by a black guy. but whites and mexicans will foul you hard sometimes to compensate for their lack of athletisism, where blacks seem to take more pride and put more effort into their skills.
How do you know they are from Mexico and not another latin country?
Big P he asked them
Reverse and put one black guy against white guys he think he Kobe 🤣
Lol this is delusional. Blacks will cheap shot you any chance they get in AAU.
I like Legler great straight forward analyst. Bob Sura was my guy im an FSU fan. And yeah blacks was ballin hard especially the 80s and 90s. Plus are naturally faster stronger & jump higher than mpst races.
That's why I love sports..its an EQUAL opportunity thing, it depends on ABILITY, not FEELINGS, Religion, race, or nationality.
85 threes made in a row is unreal lol
There's a bit of a hole in his story. You where filling out your paperwork for Villanova Law School on line two years after you graduated college? Did the internet even exist back then???
You must be a child. You can apply for law school once you complete your Bachelor's. And the internet did exist.
Those long winters in Omaha loblol nebraska cba haha
Why does the CBA have games in USA?
CBA stood for Continental Basketball Association, not Canadian. Even if it was Canadian, who cares? The NBA has a team in Toronto, so exactly what Nation does National Basketball Association refer to?
And how many did he ever make in the 3 point competition? Huh....20/30......that ain't no 80%.....guess he got better after he retired.
It has nothing to do with color if your good enough u will play🤷🏽♂️
I think that’s the point they just aren’t that good lol
BS. If there were a white guy with same skills but same height as Spud Webb, Mugsy Bogues he wouldn't even play D1 much less NBA. Color does come into play.
the athletic breeding theory is complete BS. the way genes work has very little to do with breeding. it takes hundreds of generations to produce any real permanent change in an isolated gene pool, let alone an open gene pool (like in the modern world). not to mention almost all "black" people (excluding those that have recently immigrated from Africa) are part "white". the real reason "black" people are good at sports is the sub culture that is African American. kids grow up around the sports, playing the game from when they're very young. I've played video games from a very young age, and as a result I'm very good at them. it almost looks like I'm genetically predisposed to be good at video games. but I promise you, I'm not. its a cultural thing, not a genetic one.
Shut the fuck up; you don't know what the hell you are talking about! You can't compare playing sports to playing video games. Video games is an hand-eye coordination, not a physical gift. White people make up almost 80% of the country which consists of well over 300 million people; black people aren't even the second majority, it's Mexicans. Black people make up 11%, and you are trying to tell me that more black kids only grow up playing sports than white kids? Gtfoh with that nonsense. You're an idiot for making such remarks!
Jamell Jenkins chill out dude. I actually do know what I'm talking about.
the united states is one large culture with literally millions of subcultures. and yes Hispanics (not Mexicans) are the largest minority I don't get what that has to do with anything I said. of course African American culture is more complex that simple basketball. some black kids play dungeons and dragons and couldn't throw a ball to save their lives. rather than growing up to be an NBA star, they might get a Job as an IT specialist.
I wouldn't say that more black kids grow up playing sports than white kids. but by and large for MANY reasons, not as many white people peruse basketball, or football as a career when compared to black people. But thats a really complex topic that goes far beyond youtube comments.
ask yourself, if black people are somehow genetically bred to be physically superior like the Aryan race (fyi in an open gene pool that kind of genetic specialization is utterly impossible, evolution like that takes hundreds of thousands, to millions of years, not hundreds) then why aren't black people dominating in literally every sport. they don't really dominate much in the way of baseball, or Soccer. race is pretty evenly distributed between the races in other sports like wrestling. and even football has lots of white players. basketball is one of the only sports that is completely dominated by black players. ask yourself why that is. and while you're at it why don't you go read about to the Social Construction of Race. you should start with W. E. B. Du Bois.
Very accurate assesment but too much time waisted on a youtube crowd where random insults will recieve more thumps up then logical analysis of topics. Jamell here would like to believe that he is genetically more athletic and not the simple idea that those atheletes that are at the top of their proffesions simply have worked the hardest throughout their whole lives. Self-ritches view to have not to mention the fact that in a sense it undermines the accomplishments of those that have worked so hard to be where they are.
rnv18 you said all of that and said absolutely nothing. STOP COMMENTING!
Jamell Jenkins I beg to differ. I think i made my self very clear JJ, and to me its not a major task to type up one paragraph, i didn't think i said ALL THAT.
Remember Leg" well nba pro !
The question is, how many black owners are there of NBA teams?
We need more diversity in basketball. The government needs to get involved to ensure we are fighting systemic racism in professional sports. Universities strive toward diversity in the classroom but fail to be consistent in their sports programs as well. These opportunities need to be provide to people of all regardless of the color of their skin.
@Negus With Gratitude It was hyperbole.
HBO Real Sports has a good segment about the rising costs of youth sports. In 10-15 years the face of sports will be different as rich white kids come of age.
Hold up 15 starting guys? Guards? Ehhhh what year was this
This sure was long before Luka Doncic was dominating the league. Wait yeah...he was 12 when this video was made!!!!!!!!
The league was made less physical so that Europeans could compete.
If they talked about this today it would not be good haha
Love, Korver, and Redick have spoken on this topic recently. The white guys don't shy away from it. Plus with guys like Jokic, Luka, Dirk, and Nash still having the ability to be elite; it is not like white guys have no chance for roster spots.
Legs is an elite storyteller
Brutally honest!
Inspirational
I remember watching that game where he pumped faked and hit the two when they needed a three-pointer LOL.
lmao i thought this was a sketch at first
thank God Dan grew out that beard. jeez
So u find him attractive now .....do u
Try finding a white RB in the NFL today i think there is maybe 2. John Riggins was the last great white RB, that was way back in the 80's.
Alstott was a beast! Yes, techniclly he was a FB, but he got to the endzone. Won me a FFB title too :)
Toby Gerhart, Peyton Hillis, Brian Leonard. Try finding a white cornerback, last one on an NFL roster was Jason Sehorn in 2002.
zlw1998 J.J. Watt is the best white player in the league with the exception of the QB position, actually the best Defensive Player in the league, I hope he wins the MVP. Lol Jason Sehorn. There are very good white players though, plenty really.
Weber562 I was responding to original comment of there being no white RB's. I'm aware Watt is white; Luke Kuechly, Harrison Smith, Eric Weddle are also dominant white defensive players. I was just saying how there is a lack of white corners.
Christian macafrie one of the best
Tim went to my school
Really??
Are you getting mixed up because there is a school called CBA
Tim went to tucker high school thats where i go
oh cool
Poor Bob Sura! haha
I don't think anyone has the answer here so far that has convinced me, and I do not know of an answer.
But one factor that I think is ignored is: look at the cost of entry to play basketball.
Shoes, and maybe a ball, and hopefully some nearby public or school courts.
Now, hopefully you can get to a coach that is good, or you can get an indoor court so you aren't in bad weather and beating your knees on asphalt all the time too, but the basic training needs are cheap. Even maintaining a basic level (not stadium) basketball court is significantly cheaper over long periods of time than a grass field.
Almost every other sport requires significantly more investment financially.
aligboyakasha, that is certainly true and the paucity of jobs in the hood would provide the time to perfect one's skills. However in the 60s and early 70s African-American players dominated baseball and higher numbers in the National League provided a big performance advantage relative to the American League.
Not a good argument, Football is dominated by blacks and a ton of equipment is needed to play.
Took a two instead of the three...he was playing the percentages.
Bobby Sura! LOL.
Has nothing to do with race. Has to do with origins. Whites typically come from hearty cold areas where strength means more than speed and jumping. Blacks where in hotter open flat land where speed and longer distances and quick movements were preferred.
You win the prize. Most racist comment. Jim Bob from Alabama who has never seen snow is white. Antoine from the South Side of Chicago probably made some extra bucks as a kid shoveling snow.
Keep your stupidity to yourself.
nope. it has more to do with economic opportunity. sports entertainment have always been a poor mans job. african americans were disenfranchised during most of the countries history and the best opportunities they had to make a living was to be a musician, or athlete. so they specialized their culture in music and athletics.
***** That's not true. It may have some residue around being a pro basketball or football player today, but even that's debatable. Basketball use to be played by a majority of white players at most major universities. That sticks a whole in your theory. Truth is, when given opportunity, more often than not, it appears that blacks seem to be more dominant physically speaking. That doesn't mean 100 percent of the time, but when given exposure, it tends to be that way. Now what other things can you add? Maybe, there is a correlation between the mentality of someone who plays the game because they love it, and another guy who plays because his and his family's livelihood depended on it. There isn't a one size, fits all reason....and that's ok. Discussion on the topics should be encouraged and various ideas considered.
JCMthebrand Ur right man, I don't know why people shy away from this type of convo, its blatantly in front of us as a society of spectators. The other thing I find is that African Americans display more raw pride than whites in most occasions, they play the game emotionally on a another level, think about smack-talk, pump-up speeches, and celebration after scoring or winning, and all that def has something to do with the upbringing in their respective lives. Not that White Americans aren't emotional either, it just doesn't always show in sports on the same degree as African American players. Like hockey players giving the same old boring answers in their interviews, unlike Richard Sherman or Kevin Garnett lol which is truly inspiring and funny at the same time, and just so raw. Let's say u put 2 guys who are physically identical in ability and size in a ring but 1 is white and the other is black, we don't know their individual backgrounds, who would u bet on to win that fight? I'd say the black guy historically will win that fight, he'll want it more, and has more to prove.
Weber562 me as black man, it's not genetic, it's the desire of the individuals. Race doesn't determine success, it's effort. If u say to an Asian kid, you're smart because you're Asian, they tend to be offended because it's not taken into account the hardwork and effort to get good grades etc.
Whites have excelled like Joel Calzhage, Jason Williams, Larry Bird, Steve Largeant, Jordie Nelson because they wanted it.
Good solid guy
What is it like to be a white player in the nba?
Sort of like being a typical black person in America.
Unless u r in the hood, get used to either being the only one or one of a handful in Every room. U Stick out like a sore thumb.
Token white?! 🤔
Boy, Dan has put on some weight and aged in just eight years ;-)
Tim Legler is such a great shooter. Id be shocked if I made more then 40
Tim leaker is the ONLY player in CBA his toe to win the three point shoot out and the slam dunk contest
Legler
Tim it's full of it the NBA was majority-white up until the 70s and the only reason that changed is because of the dismantling of the ABA which was majority African Brothers
Well, at least he didn't have to sleep in separate hotels and be refused at restaurants like the one or two black players on predominantly white basketball teams in the early days of supposed desegregation. Of course we all remember a time when black and white players couldn't even be on the same court, let alone the same team.
Good stuff by legs