Evangelion and Good Friends: Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Spoilercast

[@jackysee]

NGE+EOE can stand on its own story-wise and have its own message. With Rebuild you need to take into account about Anno's life in order to explain the story, like how can Mari and Shinji come together without much development across the 4 movies, except that we have to meta-read Mari = Moyoco. Meta-narrative intrudes the narrative in such a way that the story just felt broken. In EOE, you can have meta-narrative and narrative separately work on two levels.

[@oovdash]

@Wind Rose this was the point Goat Jesus was trying to make. The rebuild films only work if you look at it through meta-narrative. Anno is like a spectre weighing down the rebuild films. His resolutions seem arbitrary because they probably come from a place outside the story itself. If you don’t care for Anno’s personal life or think he is now out of touch with normal everyday life, then these films feel like a celebrity vanity project.

[@oovdash]

@Wind Rose I agree. I have kind of given up on the rebuilds at the moment. I am interested in what the reception will be in 5-10 years.

[@P4Z44K]

@Wind Rose I hate it

[@Khazuki_]

thank you, I thought I was going insane seeing near universal praise for this movie

[@iksarguards]

Kauru: Explodes
Shinji: OMG PTSD
Rei Q : Explodes
Shinji: Oh well these things happen.

[@Robersora]

Opposed to Kaworu, Shinji didn't really know Rei Q. Shinji is a very self-centered child, so in concept his reaction makes sense.

[@Robersora]

@@GoatJesus From what I gathered, he really didn't. He even refused to call her Rei at that point.

[@R0ck3tM0nsT3R]

@@Robersora It honestly doesn’t matter how he chose to see Rei. His PTSD was bad enough to cripple him enough to be mute for days on end. He vomited multiple times just LOOKING at Asuka’s choker. He still sees apparitions of Kaworu later in the movie. Why would he not have any kind of real reaction to Rei’s body popping? Why would seeing the choker be a trigger but not somebody’s head bursting in front of him?
It really comes off as convenience for writing and a real disservice to a portrayal of PTSD, which to me was obviously what they were going for.

[@GoatJesus]

@@Robersora He did. He called her Ayanami pretty constantly at the end there. I'd also argue that he didn't know really anything personal about Kaworu and Kaworu was just nice to him in the same way Rei Q was. So. Idk if there's a point here.

[@Robersora]

@@R0ck3tM0nsT3R I don’t care about the PTSD angle and how „realistic“ it is. It’s a movie with giant robots fighting in the anti-verse, for *understanding*,
but I agree, Shinji snapping out of it was rather abrupt.
The documentary gives a clue for why that might be though. Really curious about Annos original draft for the Village part.

[@salokin3087]

You can really sense the dissapointment in GoatJesus. Hope he makes that rebuild video Unfortunate you couldnt get Rocco on, i know the Mega64 crew had a very unique take on it

[@themegatonmenace1224]

I saw the video that Rocco made so I know that he liked it, but I didn't know that the rest of the crew voiced an opinion.

[@EvaMonkey]

Yeah, I saw Rocco's video, the podcast, and the spoilercast they did, and I plan on watching them all, because I'm a big fan of them and their work, but it's a lot of content! I'd definitely like to talk with Rocco (again) and Garrett some time, because they're big fans, and it has shown up in Mega64 videos on NUMEROUS occasions.

[@fuelbytea]

I’m with GoatJesus entirely. I am utterly confused by the positive reactions to this film, or even the Rebuilds as a whole. We had a watch party with 4 of my friends and all of us started off confused and annoyed, and by the second half it practically became a drinking game of how ridiculous and stupid it all was. Terrible filmmaking. NGE, and particularly EoE, is art and a massive creative inspiration for me. It does not feel like the same creator made the Rebuild series. It’s watered down and weaker in every observable way. I’m still confused with what I watched, but unlike the first time viewing EoE it’s for all the wrong reasons.

[@mikey17091986]

I would agree with GoatJesus take on the series and also your initial thoughts on how you get after watching 4.0. Underwhelmed and down. I couldn’t actually sleep after as I kept running through it in my mind, and not in the positive way I did end of Eva.
Like you say great to keep Eva relevant and us fans talking but…. Yeah it just lost its way I think. I actually enjoyed 3.0 for the most part more than 4.0 I think (despite the time jump feeling like a whole Film was missing) But I would Much preferred 3.0 to be as it was in the teaser at the end of 2.0.

[@revtobiaz]

Glad to hear EvaOtaku here. I remember reading his site back when I first discovered the series. Very much agree with his takes here.

[@EvaMonkey]

Yup. I'm hoping we can do more "talk no jutsu" in the future. lol

[@sedfukand]

I'm really enjoying this talk. Thank you, guys.

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

These guys are underrated ://

[@EvaMonkey]

@@eiwhaz-tina6528 Just a buncha nerds on the internet, shooting the shit about Eva. If you didn't enjoy the discussion, that's cool. If you did, then I'm glad, I put a lot of effort into producing and editing it.

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

@@EvaMonkey I thought it was a great revision of the movie and of what the franchise meant for you all.
Glad to see everyone that Ive been following since years ago come together and talk about this, I feel understood and happy about that.
Recently I saw GJ video and even tho at the moment I felt kinda sad about how he talked of the medium, I now feel better with this take.
And you E.Monkey are also great, smart and efficient when approaching art and when it's time to analyze these types of pieces.
Really, lots of respect for everyone 👏👏

[@zucchini3D]

Some random (spoiler-filled) comments:
1. thank you for this podcast, loved all the guests and differing opinions!
2. Okay the one most notable shot that sticks out in my head was when Asuka was forcing food down Shinji’s throat bc he refused to eat. Man that uncanny mix of rotoscope was visceral and perfect for what the shot was going for.
3. I really liked the anti universe viewing it as this like, simulacrum where its eva iterating on eva iterating on eva and it becomes this disgusting remixed mess, culminating in that now hilariously iconic rei head. Really felt like it was peeking into Anno’s subconscious tbh. So much possibility and madness.
4. Goatjesus hit the nail on the head talking about his criticisms of the ending. Shinji is just literally running away to another reality, UNLESS of course that’s just the same world but in the future. For a while I firmly believed he just became God and jumped ship into a new world where he could be a new man...which again runs counter to the whole damn series’s message about *not running away dammit*. Also, okay the beach scene right before the train scene makes no sense because Yui pushes him away like “nah u dont gotta end your life to save everyone i gotchu (again)”, and then the next scene he’s just alone on the beach about to fade from existence. Either he’s banking on Mari saving his ass or he’s just killing himself again lol, even tho Yui just deus ex machina’d him from that fate. I dunno just a minor nitpick that could be tossed into a loooot of nitpicks about that ending.
5. All the lgbt retconning was not very cool. Like you can’t de-gay Kaworu by making it seem like him loving Shinji was him just trying to love...himself?? Seems like that was implied? And the end shot with Rei and Kaworu yeahh mehhh.
6. Would also love a podcast talking about women and their roles in Eva. Especially considering the whole clones deal.
7. While I dislike Anno using those virtual camera techniques to find “cool angles” only, the actual usage of them for 2D animation is fascinating. Very experimental to use that much previs and I think it totally unlocked some gold shots like the Asuka one mentioned above.
8. It pains me how much I can see Shinji, Asuka, and Rei Q wandering the wastelands being an incredible first major arc. God it wouldve been atmospheric eye candy man, as well as flesh out everyone so much better. Coulda done away with the village scene, or at least cut it down. It was slow and contemplative, buut I woulda much preferred that pace with the core 3 alone.
9. Yeah the whole “touch grass and have a random lady bring you out of your sads, thats what worked for me at least lol” message I prefer not to think about. I get that Eva IS Anno but bro, in all the other films and the series he’s making broader points about becoming a better person and embracing reality, your faults, your mistakes etc. This film is a way more self-obsessed meta. Which...I get...it’s his last Eva film, but The New Good Ending(tm) message doesn’t add anything lol.
10. I loved this film but can absolutely understand all the flaws and criticism. I dont remember if it was in the podcast or if it was a comment but someone said “Anno can only say what Eva ISNT” and thats a perfect way to put it. Sorry for the long comment!

[@EvaMonkey]

> Would also love a podcast talking about women and their roles in Eva
This is something that I've got on my list, have actually had conversations and plans going back a few months now. That's part of why I said that it deserves its own discussion. It was 100% relevant to the film and what we were discussing, but... not to say that four mostly straight/white dudes can't have an objective and stimulating conversation about this topic, but I think we can all agree that its better being a female-led conversation.

[@alois9206]

To me it was obvious Shinji didn't run away from the world, he changed it. That's why he still has the collar.

[@GabrielRodriguez-zn3jt]

Yeap, You pretty much acknowledge what happens. There's nothing much but wait what will happen with the spin off and sequels in the upcoming years. Besides, saying this is the end is quite the opposite at the of the day.

[@Anagusame]

This sooo needs to be a podcast on Spotify!

[@EvaMonkey]

I have it set up in Achor, I just need to get around to actually importing the episodes and deploying it. Soon, hopefully!

[@hm.82234]

Yessss

[@cereaI_]

the unanimous praise for the rebuilds, and especially this movie, is baffling. There's not a single thing the rebuilds do better or even half as good as the original series. Goat jesus shitting on this movie was cathartic

[@christ.4658]

It's not baffling at all lol. Even though certainly inferior compared to the original, the Rebuilds are quite good, and arguably even surpass the original in some aspects.

[@APinchofBazel]

@@christ.4658
Nah

[@christ.4658]

@@APinchofBazel Yah

[@APinchofBazel]

@@christ.4658
Name one thing the Rebuilds “surpass” that doesn’t involve shiny 16:9 visuals.

[@christ.4658]

@@APinchofBazel mostly significantly superior visuals compared to NGE, a bit better music, a few characters were arguably done a bit better too.

[@Horrormaster13]

The EVA Fanbase is pretty split right now after 3.0+1.0.

[@JCLawYT]

If they expect the rebuild will be the same as the EOE. They will be disappointed.

[@EvaMonkey]

Except the film itself spends a significant chunk of time reminding people of The End of Evangelion through numerous animation and aesthetic callbacks. If you're going to do that, and repeatedly remind people of another film that's stood the test of time as a masterpiece, then the film had better live up to it. And judging from what I've been seeing, a lot of people found it to be very disappointing in that regard.

[@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r]

@@EvaMonkey Yup. And tbh without those EOE callbacks, I feel like the film wouldn’t get as much love and instead be more subjective to disappointment.

[@JCLawYT]

nahhh.. The only reminder of EOE is at the end of the rebuild. Most of it are original or in a different perspective. I think your missing the real point of the story. The father and son relationship. From the start of the tv series it started with Shinji and Gendo but then it disappear in EOE. Remember 2.22 the post poned dinner. Now, it happen. Anno gave us more details about Gendos past, his reconciliation with Shinji and being at peace in the end. Instead of being decapitated by a Eva in EOE. Yes EOE is a masterpiece and I will not disagree with that but the rebuild gave us the real ending that Anno really wanted in positive way. Again the 1990s Anno is different from the 2020s Anno. And Anno is Shinji, right??? And who's Mari again???

[@GoatJesus]

​@@JCLawYT No. From the start of TV series / 1.0 it started with Shinji and Misato. The parental heart of Evangelion about is how Shinji needs to connect to a mother figure who actually cares about him and reject a patriarch who is using him for completely selfish reasons. Guess what? Misato got shafted in favor of an abusive dad who didn't deserve to be understood by Shinji with lame retooling of Gendo abandoning Shinji as "I thought it was good for him to get abandoned by me."

[@darkknightfan7520]

I can acknowledge and see the flaws but the more I’ve watched it, I like it more & more.
I loved everything done with rei, I wish she had a different ending tho.

[@jikorijo4516]

Since Rei is my #2 favorite character in Eva (after Shinji), I’m curious what kind of ending you would have preferred for her.

[@darkknightfan7520]

@@jikorijo4516 Well, it’s a predictable answer, since the rebuilds were similar to the manga in that there was a focus on shinji & rei’s relationship, I wish there was a better pay off to that.
And since the ending is a rewrite of the world without Eva (and rei’s existence was because of eva) that would mean rei wouldn’t have any relation to yui or shinji, so that would’ve been a great opportunity for them to be together.
I wish we got that, but I knew it wouldn’t happen anyway. :/

[@jikorijo4516]

@@darkknightfan7520 Thanks for the response. I’m busy with something right now, so I’ll give my thoughts about that (and other stuff that was in 3 + 1). For right now, I’ll say as a long time ReiXShinji fan, I enjoyed the film and was satisfied where and how the characters ended up. And I, personally think, any viewer can decide if Shinji ends up in a romantic relationship by the end because of how open ended the ending is. I certainly think Rei and Shinji are together.

[@darkknightfan7520]

@@jikorijo4516 can’t wait hear back from you brother.

[@jikorijo4516]

@@darkknightfan7520 Hey man! Sorry, it took so long to get back to you!
Like I said before, I think anyone can look and make up their own interpretation as to what happened to the world and where the characters are now. Did Shinji and Mari make it back out of the anti-universe? Is the world they're both in the same one that opened the film? Do any of the characters still know each other? To me, these questions rest with the viewer. Anno has always been very obtuse/convoluted when it comes to the lore of Eva and it's endings. These are the same type of questions that someone could ask at the end of the tv series or End of Evangelion. Did anyone return from the Sea of LCL? Will Asuka and Shinji be the last remaining humans? Again, the viewer has to answer these questions for themselves.
What stood out from the other endings, was that Shinji was able to understand his Father and help the rest of the characters with their problems. It feels like Shinji and company got a more happier ending and, personally, I'm happy about that. It feels like this ending reflects where Anno is in his life, after finishing the Rebuild films.
Would I have enjoyed a definitive pairing ending where Shinji wakes up in bed with Rei, while she's breastfeeding their child (now that she's an adult and is able to). Oh sure, I'd love that! But, I don't think Anno cares about wrapping up character relationships in Eva so neatly and I don't think Eva (in any of it's iterations helmed by Anno) ever had a One True Romantic Pairing in it. He wants to show something where people have to draw their own conclusions.
Personally, I think Shinji and everyone else are aware of what has happened and that the world has been rebuilt. I think Rei and Shinji are in a relationship after everything has happened. On that day, Shinji just decided to go to work (or wherever) with Mari (his co-worker, maybe?) as he left Rei to chat with Kaworu. The ending scene at the train station is so without context, that it could mean lots of different things (and even if it’s meant to be taken on a literal or more metaphorical level). But, that's what I saw when I finished the film.

[@ghxxxyk2]

Great commentary, felt everything that needed to be said RE: eva had already been said in EoE and the TV ending. TV ending was about how ultimately knowing yourself including your own flaws & accepting those of others can lead to happiness. EoE was darker, but ultimately said you need other people, even if you don't see it that way. the movie endings was a lot more pap, blah blah get rid of all evas (and stop enjoying Eva so much nerds... again already said in EoE!) and love will ultimately save/redeem you like it did Gendo and Shinji in the end. just a story that has been told countless times and didn't need to be retold through this series. on a human level glad Anno found happiness but the lesson that real happiness comes from within is fundamentally a better "lesson" and a more accurate to the characters ending. Shinji needed to fix himself, neither Asuka nor Rei could fix him nor should they have been expected to. All the characters had to self actualize to begin their healing and growth. OG TV ending is this ending, but better.

[@Unforgiven11]

Mari was a waste of screen time. She stole Asukas thunder as being the "Wonder Pilot" with natural talents. She was just a weird fanservicey nobody who randomly becomes Shinjis love interest after he meets her for all of 20 seconds between the 4 films? Disappointing.

[@mnl_lnm]

Honestly the whole loop theory with the added deus ex machina of Mari/Wife as a "I'll show what happens in this story if something unexpectedly positive just come out of the sky" would have sense if...EoE didn't already had a bitter but hopeful ending. Now it's just all over the place, with Shinji just.. creating an happy place from scratch? There is no tension like in EoE where to choice was essentially between die (return to unity / instrumentality) or embrace life and its difficulties.

[@RonnyC98]

The entire Tokyo 3 was completely destroyed in near third impact and the characters who were super salty about it were the ones who had family members die from that.

[@CC.M]

It's funny that the EOE which is well developed, has a critical, amazing, important message, and exploits the animation to its fullest doesn't have as many praised or awards as it deserves.
Whereas the last rebuild movie with all its contradictions to the franchise, changing the philosophy of the EOE's message by refuting that we should go outside and live when the main protagonist wishes, resets and fulfils a perfect world (lol), nonsensically trying to give a hollow happy ending to the characters without earning it as well as changing their personalities to their worst, imposing more meta than writing a well concluded story ,a horrendous cgi elements that draw more people to it to give an explanation of how bad is good than the 2d animation, has an award as the best animated movie of 2021 in japan, plenty of blind praised, and will exquise the franchise more for just money because I am sure there will be other 2 or 5 "end of Evangelion" in the following years to *"justify"* more and more nonsense. Such a letdown.
Anywho, that's life (Frank Sinatra)

[@jw0048]

Don't have time to watch the video yet, but I will say my problem with the movie is that the symbolism of the narrative was given an unbalanced priority over its bare factual series of events. Shinji ending up with Mari makes sense symbolically, but not for the characters themselves. The original series was so powerful because it balanced both perfectly.

[@NexusLore]

agreed

[@EvaMonkey]

Thanks to Brendan (of EvaOtaku.com), Mikel (of GoatJesus), and Chester (of AnnoCinema) for joining me for this discussion!

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Not a fan of GoatJesus opinion-as he seems to be truly negative towards the rebuild movies( and really hated Shinji in 2.0) but I was glad to hear everyone's viewpoints shared on the love of Evangelion. I myself was a fan in 96 and got the opportunity to meet and speak with the ADV staff and voice actors. Thank you all for your thoughts and feelings on this legendary series! Personally, id rank the movies as
1.2.0 feels like its own movie and might as well be called ASUKA'S REVENGE!
2. 4.0(1.0+3.0) Decent end but still feels a bit off....
3. 1.0 love some of the new transitions added!
4. 3.0 easily the weakest. Badly structured with very little character backstory of the last 14 years.

[@primusvsunicron1]

Mari was lesbian for Yui

[@Bronzeman-el5hr]

@@primusvsunicron1 "Mari was a lesbian for Yui"...In the manga. In contrast you can say she may have had a crush on Gendo in 4.0 or was at least his best friend prior to Yui.

[@GoatJesus]

​@@LowellLucasJr. Yep! I really am negative toward the rebuilds. But I don't mind people liking them. You're always welcome to be my friend.

[@LowellLucasJr.]

@@GoatJesus I am a friend( meant to say not a fan of your opinion btw my bad on that). Not only have I subscribed to you but I've also been on your live-chats. Unfortunately you have ignored my Shinji questions in past about 2.0 and thought I was trolling you when I was being genuine. Still I always value everyone's viewpoints as they always bring something unique to the table.

[@koioniaku351]

The looping theory really lessens the impact of EOE imo, ima just block the rebuild movies out of my mind

[@koioniaku351]

@Wind Rose exactly. I’m someone who interprets EOE as a hopeful ending, and it’s a movie that genuinely has helped me through some of the toughest moments of my life. The looping idea genuinely upsets me, because reducing EOE to the start of another loop seems to me to reduce the power, meaning and painful beauty of EOE significantly.

[@leemclain8142]

"3.0+1.0 is like EOE and 3.0 made it in bed, but the outcome was due to a hateful and revengeful sex rather than gently at a expense to be happy desperately"

[@bear211]

So if Shinji "rewrote" the entire universe, depending on the starting point of that rewrite, didn't he effectively erase the very people in the village who helped him overcome his traumas? That's a pretty morbid realization to make.

[@devoneriggins7285]

He didn’t rewrite the world. Just got rid of the Evas. You see Asuka land in the village as well as the people from Wille so that’s all still there. The train sequence at the end was him and Mari still in the imaginary world.

[@GoatJesus]

@@devoneriggins7285 what’s Asuka doing in the background of the train station? So weird

[@Zodrex]

​@@devoneriggins7285 To me the train sequence happens after a timeskip where society is now rebuilt.
The world was de-corified and people just moved back to cities. At least that's how I see it.

[@EvaMonkey]

I do question how the scene should be read, but if it's just the future, then why is the DSS Choker still there, and why are Rei, Asuka, and Kaworu all just casually in the background, depicted as strangers?

[@bear211]

@@Zodrex I think it's a perfectly reasonable way of interpreting things with the exception of the whole weirdness of the train station scene. In order to view things in a more straightforward fashion you would have to accept that Shinji and Mari stopped communicating with the other pilots for some reason and don't even acknowlege each other's presence.

[@MajorMechazawa]

Talk about an All Star line-up

[@OneMoreMeme_INeedYou]

Great, in depth conversation. Thank you for all your hard work!

[@EternalFallGroupNeonStudio]

100% on the side of GoatJesus the movie just made me insanely frustrated and extremely disappointed as movie it a 4/10 the rebuild movies are like what if Michael Bay became a philosopher and made this movies.

[@PhaseMyself]

Gonna side with Evamonkey and GoatJesus on this one, I'm mildly disappointed. It's just mind blowing how the vast majority of the community likes it. All it takes for them to overlook the film's glaring flaws is a happy ending.
I'm all for a happy ending, but the execution, and how the film got to that ending...leaves much to be desired.
I liked the village segment and the part where they throwback the original series. The rest....

[@theMoporter]

A "happy ending" where he turns back time so that he never did anything wrong and gets to walk away from all his problems just feels like a delusional fantasy. I don't want that ending.

[@bear211]

@@theMoporter Yeah, and if the "redoing" effectively removes his friends as he knew them then that's not a happy ending at all. It's some kind of black comedy. What about Toji and Hikari's child? Did Shinji erase her? Wtf is that ending?

[@devoneriggins7285]

@@theMoporter He didn’t turn back time. The ending with him and Mari and the train station was still in that imaginary world. Them running out was them returning to the real world. You saw that the Wille people and Asuka landed in the village. He didn’t erase that.

[@theMoporter]

@@devoneriggins7285 Okay, but in that situation, he's literally just running away from his problems without making up for anything he did wrong. That's...worse.

[@PhaseMyself]

@@theMoporterAgree. Sadly, most fans don't care about that. All that matters for them is how meta, how happy, and how 'satisfying' the ending is (I swear I've seen 3.0+1.0 and 'satisfied ' in the same sentence a hundred times by now).
I think it would be better to remove the reset/rewind at the ending. Instead, have them Rebuild the world (cue montage of humanity literally rebuildinh the world with their own hands) . I mean, what was the seed pods for if everything was just proofed back in place.

[@hm.82234]

Loved the different perspectives, great episode.

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

This is a good analysis

[@nico-wj1mh]

based goatjesus

[@sonicstage1]

I really loved all the world building at the start, and catching up with old characters grown up. It really filled in a lot of the gaps from 3. 0 for me.

[@robertvolek8360]

In my headcannon, the rebuilds are one of the possible worlds Shinji imagines while in the instrumentality
Like he does in episode 26

[@ILoveAsuka]

This podcast made me wish I had a friend to talk with

[@oscia3741]

Is there an eva discord?

[@ILoveAsuka]

@@oscia3741 not that I'm aware of

[@FelipeFritschF2]

I'm surprised EvaOtaku is still around... woah! Also very cool that GoatJesus has an interesting job!

[@RoyalKnightVIII]

Yup that's why he's pretty much gone from the internet. His Twitter is nuked, patreon is gone

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

I grew up with father issues when I met the evangelion franchise at 14 years old. My father abandoned me and rejected me every time I tried to connect with him.
When I finished Evangelion, EoE, it helped me get over him.
Now when we had the therapy session in this last movie... I felt unconfortable.
I remember watching that scene and thinking: "...Why are we doing this? We were over this. Evangelion solved this years ago".
And then... Gendo was redeemed... And i was like...
Okay. You know what, I don't buy it, but whatever.

[@yharnamiyhill787]

A good story has to be based on Truth. Anno redeeming Gendo is like Gaara's father all of the sudden turn out to be a loving dad. It is not realistic and a bad message.

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

@@yharnamiyhill787 Exactly. I think the same as you.

[@seacrystal6189]

I feel the same. As someone with an abusive father, his redemption felt insulting. Original series helped me sort through the trauma I have regarding him. I was heartbroken when I saw that scene

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

@@seacrystal6189 you get it too :(

[@gigaman6]

There's a difference between Redemption and Understanding. Shinji's gaining understanding of his father doesn't in any way redeem him, but part of Shinji's own personal growth comes from his ability to understand and forgive his father. Not as a way of excusing his behavior, but as a way of clearing the path for his own progression. This is something that Adults MUST learn to do in order to be truly unburdened. Anno understands that (Although it took him some time, clearly). I wish this sort of grace for everyone with childhood trauma.

[@Blitzbogen]

Just finished watching the movies thanks for the podcast, enjoyed it until the end

[@evagunpla7944]

I always thought the rebuild films were just fan service for fans who want more Evangelion.
I agree that the last film could’ve been better.

[@paulhoffmann3405]

One thought about the ending, about leaving the fictional world of Eva to go into the real world. Maybe its not just a meta commentary on Otaku culture... I always interpreted Shinji (and Anno) as an introvert. And for introverts, "going out" and connect with people can be really hard. Maybe this aspect is there as well in the ending. That Shinji managed to overcome the barriers to other human beings.

[@manta660]

The finale of this podcast honestly invested me with more hope than the end of 4.0 lol

[@hasbug223]

If they improved the dialogue and have Shinji leave the train while Gendo stayed on to symbolize Gendo's need to go through the process of finding his own happiness being the last scene we see him, the last quarter of the movie would have been so much better.

[@jayfolk]

Main reason I like the farm more then the big battle at the last half cause when they bring up a new idea, they explain it as opposed to throwing it aside to get to the next new jargon word: spear, wunder, 4 ships, imaginary lilth, another spear, etc, etc, etc
vs
what is rice, waht is thank you, what is goodbye, what is cute?

[@RabidCupcake2010]

I concur, Demolition D+ stream vod uploader man

[@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r]

The Rebuilds were always unnecessary in my opinion, and after seeing the last film, it still is for me. But anyone can feel different.

[@groggod666]

Well, i have a different opnion, but i'm starting to feel that i like the Rebuilds because i'm a newer fan lol
(i started watching EVA in 2015 or something like that)

[@vojtechjilovec]

I liked the rebuilds way more than the original anime, but you don't see me pushing it anywhere else.
You have to look at the rebuilds as their own thing (like a *rebuild*), like it isn't even an Eva show, even if its sharing the same name - That's how you'll be able to enjoy both.

[@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r]

@@vojtechjilovec Even as its own thing I still didn’t enjoy it. As a standalone series it still fails for me.

[@evagunpla7944]

I didn’t mind it as much after rewatching EOE & Thrice upon a time. Their both great films that aren’t perfect but amazing.
Tributes to the Tokusatsu community

[@8bitdee]

They're not unnecessary. Watch the video on UA-cam titled "Why Rebuild of Evangelion Exist" and you'll understand their existence has a purpose. Not to the story of Evangelion itself, but to allow Anno to generate the funds to give rising animators the space and opportunities to create their own works, and elevate their craft.

[@ServitoreLuceGialla]

The first thing i always say about the rebuilds now is that well they aren't quite rebuilding anything at all. The more they go on the more i've seen them relying on the legacy of the original series, for context on "stuff", lore, and most glaringly character writing. IS this bad? can't say. Are they bad? nobody can completely agree on this. If you watched the original series though, they are surely worth watching.
Maybe their own legacy will be that of having opened the franchise for a new era of lore-expanding and side stories, that could surely be interesting but it's a very quick path for franchise inconsistency and i don't think Eva needs it.
Perhaps this IS the beginng of that. But for now, the first thing that should be said is that the rebuilds can't stand at all on their own, and wasn't that their original objective? the scope in the many years of production has changed. If this goes on, we as fans have to realize that the scope of the franchise itself will change, and that therefore every work needs to stand on its own, be its own evangelion and not this kind of in-between that the rebuilds have been. Still, i enjoyed them. I think they're good. What do you think?

[@ThomasOsborn7]

On the thoughts that the "meta-narrative" is about "i found love now you go do". I don't think Anno is specifically saying that. To me, it is more generic 'go live life'. Anno I think has shifted from his thoughts on his own fandom coming from EoE where he had detest and spite for the sad individuals attracted to his works. To a realization that these people needed his support and love. Rebuild says "go live life, in the real world". We don't need reasons for Mari and Shinji to end up together, other than "life happened" and specifically a life without Evangelion where now it might be possible. If anything I would say that we could have had longer here with characters like Rei and Asuka being in a generic crowd (instead of entirely comprising a sparse train station) to show, without Nerv/Eva/Angels Shinji doesn't know these people they are living their own lives.

[@Tamacat388]

I think you should read what the so-called death threats actually were in End of Eva before saying detested sad individuals who became attached to Eva.

[@hm.82234]

The “Go live life without evangelion” part really hit home.

[@chipkipperly3904]

2.2 was the best out of the rebuilds

[@iqmalaidil3414]

My man! It was my first ever Eva media I consumed. It wasn't too deep, esp. compared to EoE and the Original TV series, but it was a breather almost. A last, flashy tribute to the original TV series before the Rebuilds truly diverge events wise.

[@Jsimms1324]

My 2nd favorite of the films. I need to re-watch it.

[@pedro-wu6hp]

good stuff loved the podcast

[@khaii13]

wow, many of my favourite Evangelion analysts in a single place, i love it. and i love all the different opinions. I myself grew up with Eva. watched the series with a Filipino Dub way back in 99. then watched EOE 2 years later (which is still my favourite ending so far). then of course the rebuild series which i liked overall. is it a perfect movie? not really. i mean that mas produced eva fight against the original reminds me of the last episode of Gundam 00 more than eva. the fight scene in the beginning was full fan service, with the Wille crew even doing a mini fourth wall break saying "you'd think the crew would be spared from wearing these ridiculous suits". though i did like how, other than the re-suply, it gave precedent to the containment field. the ghibli village was by far one of the best parts, as it shows the world picking up the pieces post impact (something we did not get to see by EOE) which helps flesh out the characters more and help them get to a place where they can move on. i kinda like how messy and action packed the final battle is only to subvert audience expectations when the final battle cannot be solved with the final climactic battle. it's still a fast (some can argue: poorly) paced mindf*** that still kinda evokes the way i felt when i first watched the TV ending and EOE. and many of the various points you guys mentioned are stuff i'm still processing within my head. except about the Rei Q part. it shows that time has passed and Rei Q kept visiting him and giving him food and waiting for him....and it's that child-like innocence that pulls him out of his shell and gets him opening up again. Her death upset shinji, but he has come to terms with the state of that world and that the rei series cannot live indefinitely outside certain conditions so it solidifies his resolve instead to end things. i mean we could spend more time to make the recovery from ptsd more "realistic" but then it would've been unbearably long. plus we got 3.0 where we've seen him traumatized already and confused.
the little nuances, i liked also. like when shinji puked when he saw the DSS choker, the next scene she hides it. or how that scene with ritsuko kinda explains why Misato suddenly turned to a Gendo 2.0, because she was guilt ridden as the guardian who egged him on to ending the world way back on 2.0.and then theres the conflict with everyone having mixed feelings towards shinji and they dont want him to pilot anymore because the times he did, he nearly ended the world but but the world would have ended anyway if he did not pilot in the first place.
but on to the point i really wanna make is that all three endings are the same ending. the tv ending says tells the message of self acceptance. EoE says that even when you accept yourself and decide to live more positively, the consequences of your past choices still remain. while 3.0+1.0 with that 14 years timeskip mentions that despite all that, if you keep moving forward, you can move on and step out into the future.
also, the universe was not reset, i think. he simply erased the existence of all EVA and a skip to the time when the world has recovered and everyone's gotten on with their lives separetely.

[@flimpeenflarmpoon1353]

Film 1 the show but worse
Film 2 the show but worse
Film 3 at least its different?
Film 4 farmer rei

[@kumirapau-chan9880]

I don't hate this movie, but yeah, I'm definitely disappointed by it - especially in regards of the ending.

[@enygma1777]

I have to disagree with some things about the male gaze section.
I think one of the problems of the USE of the concept, not of the concept itself, is the assumption that EVERY CASE of woman objectification is inherently mysoginist. I will argue that's not the case and that, actually, the mysoginy is an something like an enhancer.
For example, think in Kyle who sees his couple as a mere instrument for his satisfaction and act saccordingly. I haven't say if his couple is a man or a woman, but while some people would asume ipso facto that his attitude is mysoginist in the second case, that won't happen in the first. Sure, is possible to have some misandry or even mysoginy behind (is not important how), but most people would agree that that is not NECESSARY. Sexual objectification can happen and, indeed, happens without of the intervention of social structures about sex and gender or from 'botton to top', women also objectify men. Sure, is happens MORE from men to women for different factor, for example, the social gender structures. That is because, as I have said, is an enhancer. But, in the same way that some women objectify men, objectification from men to women, at least in some cases, is independent of the gender structures.
Shinji objectifies women, but not because he is mysoginist. He objectifies EVERYONE for different reasons. The reason Asuka, Rei and Misato are also sexually objectified is because he (mostly) is sexually attracted to women. Here, the fact they are women is not the cause, is only an accidental aspect of the situation. Misato sexually objectifies men, but she is not a misandric because the condition of men of her 'victims' is irrelevant. People a lot of time sexually objectify others for reasons of escapism and THAT is what Anno criticized in the original series. I think that Shinji has some sexism, thought, but for other reasons.
I would also argue that NGE/EOE doesn't have fan-service. That is a trap for the hospital scene, after that there is nothing.

[@MrJerkdude1]

"People a lot of time sexually objectify others for reasons of escapism and THAT is what Anno criticized in the original series." This is what I believe the rebuilds answers to when it comes to the fan-service. Now that the sexualization is no longer rooted in any deep issues, it's mostly treated as an average thing.

[@mehmetugur2924]

@@MrJerkdude1 Showing ass and tits when you have a story to tell is not maturity. Seeing nudity throughout the whole movie or with different plugsuits each time while Asuka has no story is nothing but selling toys to otakus. Butt shots of Toji's sister during dramatic scene is (not) healthy.

[@YoshisUncle]

I just watched 3.0 + 1.0 this week and was happy I could come back to this channel! I’d been in a media blockout of Eva so I could go in blind cuz I was so busy. It was really nice to hear thoughts from a bunch of Eva fans like myself. Thank you Eva Monkey!!!
I personally really loved the film. It felt cathartic and hit me as an adult how EoE and NGE hit me as a teen. The rebuilds are far from the quality, tightness, and emotional resonance from the OG In my view, as I choose to see it as more of a reflection on the material (quoting Rocco Botte) than a ‘sequel’ or ‘loop’.
I don’t think The OG leads into the rebuilds. I think they, and the manga, are all different takes on this story of loneliness, depression, abuse, sexuality, and living.
I guess I’d put it in these terms: if NGE and EoE were about finding happiness without running away from your pain and responsibilities, then the Rebuilds were about embracing the unknown when finding closure within a loop of abuse.
Whether that’s Anno commenting on the fandom, himself, or Eva is anyones interpretation. Personally, I see it as a way for Anno finding closure with his creations, and for myself, is about the catharsis of closing a chapter of your life and opening the next. It’s easy to be stuck in a time of your life as you age, and if you can find it in yourself to have closure then you’ll be holding yourself back. I think that’s why the final 40 minutes were they were, albeit rushed and not tight narratively. But the idea is there, imo, that Shinji has realized with the death of Rei Q that he needed to free himself from a cycle of abuse caused by his father and carve a new future for himself.
As someone who has an abusive father, it didn’t completely land for me like with Goat Jesus, but the sentiment landed, in the sense that you have to find closure how you can in order to not be beholden to whatever inner turmoil you’re holding onto; not that easy in the real world, but I found it inspirational and optimistic in its sincerity.
The rebuilds are very flawed, and in a narrative sense do fall apart in a lot of ways. But I think emotionally, meta wise, and generally, conveys a very different message than the original series but one that can be seen as equally hopeful.
All that said, I don’t think NGE leads into the Rebuilds. They are two different interpretations of the material and linking them undermines each other. They’re best seen as using a single template and going into different directions to say something unique from one another.
Last thing I’ll say is I do think it’s the same world in the end. It’s a time skip showing all the characters on new paths as they’ve reconciled and have a future of unknown possibilities ahead of them. I don’t think they retcon Kaworu to be hetero like I don’t think Shinji and Mari are an item. In my view, Shinji being flirtatious shows his growth, and his readiness to connect with people. The future is unwritten, and he can very well reconnect with his old friends in this rebuilt world-without the Evas. The Evas, Of which, represent something new in this framework-a cycle and loop of abuse.
Phew. That was a lot. If anyone managed to read all of this, I hope you took something out of it. Any who, I still love all of Eva and always will. My favorite series in all of entertainment and hits me like nothing else.

[@brandonninomtz336]

Absolutely hated how they tried to flesh Rei's character out only to have her die, all while Shinji doesn't react at all. Talk about lazy writing

[@jikorijo4516]

You didn’t think Rei Q’s (Rei #6, I believe they called her) character development filtered back to the Rebuild Rei (Rei #5?) because she was holding a Tsubame doll at the end?

[@charliekowittmusic]

This exactly. Rei gets 30 minutes of character development, even if most of it is “What’s this? What’s that?” And then Tangs.
Shinji gets virtually zero character development but changes personalities overnight?
K.

[@Bronzeman-el5hr]

A failure of Anno's disinterest for Shiniji's character arc and his interest in Gendo's character arc in 4.0.

[@Jsimms1324]

Yeah no, I thought it was handled well and with grace.

[@jeffpalaganas7404]

@David McVey Nah.

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

To be honest it’s was better than I thought it was going to be. But overall it’s more of mix bag. And there are issues I noticed, especially in the third act, But I enjoyed it overall.

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

But as for what I want for the franchise. I would love to see other people work on Eva. Like I would not mind a G Evangelion or a Trun A Evangelion.

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

As for Anno in the future. I’m excited to see the shin ultraman and shin kamen rider movies.And mabye the nassica remake.

[@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r]

@@MrSpoodersaurus G Evangelion especially

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

@@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r exactly

[@oovdash]

@@MrSpoodersaurus I would love a Nausicaa sequel.

[@morenojames5868]

I'm sure it's been said but in an interview Sadamoto said that the ending of the manga which had Mari was just a tidbit thrown in for the fans. He chuckled and said it wasn't meant to be implying anything more and that he liked how the fans looked so deeply into everything. The manga ends with the ending, though, without any actual hint of a loop. Really it's only the Rebuilds which add a concrete image of a loop theory, which started with the fanbase to begin with.
But then again, Sadamoto's said a lot of things that contradicted what he originally put into the manga, so taking it as a work unto itself I suppose you could view the Mari extra as a hint at a loop into the Rebuilds anyway.

[@smileyjojo4913]

Gendo's whole redemption was something that really resonated with me. I recently met up with my dad again after not seeing him for years, essentially having grown up without him and we had some heart to heart talks, wherein he told me he had so many of the same issues I had, issues which had inadvertently stemmed from him being absent in my life. That's literally the exact thing that happens between Gendo and Shinji, so it was a really relatable and heavy scene to me. I think the strength of that scene lies in how much you relate to it. There's only so much you can empathize when you see it through the lens of someone who had a physically abusive father. Whereas I had an absent father figure who shares many of my same emotional issues. It might seem like silly writing to you, but its something I experienced firsthand.

[@patrickweller5254]

Excited to hear this.

[@residentcontrarian2955]

let's gooooooooo can't believe I'm this early, super keen to chuck this on and vibe for a few hours

[@lberserker7889]

It's interesting to contrast Goat's view on the Gendo arc with the guys from Mega64's take on it. The latter seemed very positive on it for finally forcing Gendo to go through a similar journey of self-loathing and reflection that Shinji has been going on throughout both series. However, it becomes far less cathartic a concept after hearing how it contradicts with Goat's personal journey towards accepting the presence an abusive father. Maybe a good balance could've been found by having Shinji accept his father's new view, but also communicate it doesn't atone for the horrible things he's already done. This feels in line with how Asuka and Shinji's relationship ends off in EoE as well.
Also, shoutouts to e-monkey for collecting so many nuanced and conflicting perspectives and being a great host in general

[@mehmetugur2924]

No, their relationship is definitely not like Asuka and Shinji's. Because their relationship was a journey, a finale where both made mistakes and saw both sides finally take steps to change. In Rebuild, Shinji has almost no relationship with his father in the first 3 movies and they suddenly becomes the main basis of the story. In a hurry, before solving the story of these two, gendo's background is told and he suddenly abandons his 20-year plan because he tells his background. It's not a terrifying reality but hopeful ending like EoE, it's wish-fulfilling fantasy.

[@mnl_lnm]

@@mehmetugur2924 I kinda of agree with this take, EoE final is much more meaningful, restoring the conflict in the world since this is part of life, and also there's some sorta of rushed redemption for Gendo, but I was also thinking assuming 25&26 tv and EoE happens simultaneosly, could we not say that also Shinji rethinks his view of life and understand its meanings by..talking to himself and then stopping Instrumentality? I mean Gendo maybe rethinked that confronting his son.

[@mehmetugur2924]

​@@mnl_lnm Yes this is probably the most logical answer. But again, Gendo didn't experience anything to rethinks his view of life. In the original work, Shinji was a coward. Could not communicate with people, did not understand or did not want to understand people because people could also bring pain.
Eventually all the characters realize that running away won't fix things, maybe it won't bring them pain, but it won't bring them happiness either. NGE does this too well that I can't keep it short. But even EoE was telling it perfectly even though it was a finale. Shinji, who gave up from the beginning to the near end of the movie, thinks his world is destroyed, but still loses something from his life in every inaction. Every time he fled, things got worse. That's why in the worst moment (when the whole world is destroyed) Shinji chose to live.

[@JCLawYT]

The guy who's talking to the other mic is 👌. As I said before... The 1990s Anno is different to the 2020 Anno. Simple logic.

[@OrtegaSeason]

That's not logic dude.

[@sonicfoamyfan9805]

I feel like I'm in the perfect position to enjoy this film because while I enjoy NGE I'm not a fan but still can respect its themes so I can appreciate the Rebuilds on their own as it tries to sort of marry the more typical narrative and action similar to the manga while also knowing enough to get its meta narrative

[@YalkYalk_]

I rewatched the show a couple of days ago and there's definitely way, way less fanservice than the rebuilds. In the show fanservice is usually done for dumb comedy, or like GoatJesus said to show things from Shinji's perspective. However the films just have fanservice shots for no other reason than fanservice.

[@misbehaven1237]

yeah the fanservice in the rebuilds has actually made me feel kinda uncomfortable, like it feels creepy.

[@oscia3741]

I cannot imagine seeing man-service shots almost literally every minute and not getting incredibly confused and weirded out by them. Like, throw a whole handful of fanservice shots if you'd like, but this got to the point where poosi felt like a part of the damned narrative.

[@cyndakip2255]

I hope to see more podcasts! Would also be cool if you guys branched out to outside of Eva, would be an interesting listen.

[@EvaMonkey]

Most definitely! I am putting very serious thought into doing episodes about both RahXephon and Kare Kano / His and Her Circumstances.

[@bedayaya1]

Surprised no discussion on what they did with Kaworu's resolution and his relationship with Shinji.

[@Tamacat388]

That bit is just so bizzare and out of left field its difficult to remeber it even happens lol

[@whtunderdog5378]

Kaworu was always a selfish and toxic relationship

[@bedayaya1]

@@whtunderdog5378 I don't really agree. But importantly, I think the relationship is important enough for Shinji to warrant one of the big emotional moments of the film. And the relationship of these characters changes from Series to Manga to Q to 3.0+1.01 to warrant a comment.
I felt a lot of the character info dump they did during instrumentality wasn't really something they built up well during the movies and was just to shoehorn a way to break all of Shinji's relationships.

[@zzymyn]

Any bets on how many years until they do a full shot-for-shot remake of the whole series? At least then we’ll get episode 16 in good quality.

[@RFLCPTR]

I fear the CGI.

[@SHINKU93]

The dude who talks more than anyone this whole time (idk who it is) I disagreed with pretty much everything he said

[@Jsimms1324]

Yep, same here. It almost sounded like he was hosting the podcast.

[@aioli4869]

Glad Chester and Brendan are part of this podcast. Outside of them, Rocco from Mega64 has the most relatable take imo.

[@Jsimms1324]

Dude same here. I’m fine with cynical takes, but to have one dominate the conversation with no opposition would’ve been tedious.

[@ethan37066]

The butt shots are because nishigori is the animation director aka directed of darling in the franxx character design for gurren lagann it’s his thing

[@EvaMonkey]

Did you watch the NHK documentary on Prime? It looked like Anno was the one picking all of the camera angles.

[@ethan37066]

@@EvaMonkey I watched it. That was for the parts where they used previsualization. They talk about it in the interview with tsuremaki you could buy at the theater in japan. Anyway It’s still a collaborative process and the other staff do their thing. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that there’s way more out of place ass shots in the film and it’s the only one he’s animation director on and that’s what he’s known for. Anno isn’t the only person credited for storyboarding that would be ridiculous

[@yharnamiyhill787]

*I noticed Yui is in the Rebuild.. How is that even possible? She left the planet in EoE. (That is why the Re-Take fanfic manga had the souless Eva unit 1.)
I thought that Shinji had an unconscious sync with Unit 1 in 1.0 which further supports that theory in 2.0 ending scene. So now in 4.0, Yui exists?
This is a sad story telling message - to manipulate a life style over 1 character. Again, the Re-Take manga was able to settle every character's story arc through Shinji, both by directly and indirectly.

[@4Clubs]

I hard a really strong negative reaction to 3.0+1.0. I don't think that EoE is some kind of unsurpassable masterpiece or that you can't iterate on it, but the Rebuild franchise feels like it's ashamed of the original series and its own legacy and cultural impact and is trying to rewrite it. It doesn't feel exciting, it doesn't feel creative, it just feels resentful and remorseful. I would even go so far as to say that discussing the fantastic cinematography is impertinent to the discussion when the script was so poorly thought out. It feels preachy and hypocritical to me. It's just baffling to me why anyone would even do this, why this even needed to exist. I try to justify this film and this series and all I come up with is the quality cinematography (for the most part) and not much else.
Edit: I apologise for the negativity. I know this isn't the spirit of this channel, but I wanted to share because you guys had such a frank discussion on it. I've been following Evangelion for almost 20 years and I was always very excited to know how Anno would "rewrite" it considering how personal this work always was. I genuinely can't say why this was even made. I had more fun watching Anno yelling at his wife and throwing her cellphone in the bathtub in Last Letter than I did watching 3.0+1.0.

[@dandiaz19934]

Tbf i didn't get the impression that Rei and Kaworu were romantically together in the end scene...

[@GAINAX01]

I feel when Rei Q dies there was definitely trauma involved, I've seen people say how Shinji doesn't care, but he literally grabs her plug suit and starts crying. The film just chooses to skip ahead as we've already witnessed Shinji struggling with his emotions for the first 30 minutes of the movie. Could you imagine another 20 minutes of Shinji angsting and crying before boarding the Wunder? The pacing would be way off. Also, Shinji's only known this Rei for like a week at max?
The key point of the scene is that Rei's death serves as a catalyst for Shinji to face his father. He's tired of being manipulated by him and seeing others suffer because of his actions. It was of the upmost importance he boarded the Wunder, and probably put on a brave face when asking Asuka to come along.

[@jag1087]

I had thought that Shinji wasn’t as affected by Rei Q’s death because he knew she was a clone. Presumably he blames his father for her death (rather than blaming himself or holding regrets) which is why he seems angry or determined when asking to board the Wunder. I do wish they had an extra scene to give more context.

[@immaterialboy6806]

nah

[@theMoporter]

"Well, I only knew this person who looks like a close friend that I failed to save from a traumatic death for like a week, so it's gonna take me maybe an hour tops to calm down"

[@Robersora]

I struggle to understand the American Puritan angle towards "objectification" of drawings. If anything there was too little male objectification for me.
To be serious though, the cognitive dissonance of some scenes (Sakura shooting Misato while she shows us her everything) is kind of wonky, but in a weirdly intriguing way. Evangelion always had a trashy element to it, so I don't see why this would suddenly be a problem, just because it is more gratuitous/contextualized differently than in NGE. These movies are, opposed to the original series, not made for children. So I don't think preaching the obvious is that necessary.
Like if this were real 14 year olds portrayed by real actors, that would be uncomfortable. But it's drawings for an adult audience. I don't really see the problem with that on a fundamental level. (except for maybe breaking suspension of disbelief for some)

[@The_10th_Man]

I think I would have enjoyed a 2 hour film completely taking place in the village. Everything after that was mostly incoherent. I would have had it start with Shinji wishing away the Evas and then conducted all the character developement in the village.

[@DefaultProphet]

Wille is mad at Shinji because they’re Ex-Nerv and Shinji blew up Nerv and Tokyo 3 with the N3I. Presumably they had people who they cared about die when that happened

[@solemnjestersacc1282]

I dont like the theory on asuka kensuke kaworu and rei in the background being depicted as strangers after everything they have gone through especially how shinji tells asuka to give his regards to kensuke

[@christ.4658]

There's no reason why any of them shouldn't have kept their memories. Shinji only wished for the destruction of all Evas. Back at Earth everyone continues their lives as normal, time hasn't been turned back and nothing has really been "reset". There is however a debate about whether Kaworu is alive in the end (I believe he isn't, as he "joins" Kaji and Misato is what I believe is the afterlife). As for Rei, we still have no idea about her whereabouts in the end.

[@solemnjestersacc1282]

@@christ.4658 Yeah i would like to get a hint of what happens after the end of 3.0+1.0 in the future maybe anno will release a small manga on what might have happened in the far future

[@christ.4658]

@@solemnjestersacc1282 I don't think he will, but who knows! I certainly hope we get something that takes place between 2. 0 and 3.0, however!

[@solemnjestersacc1282]

@@christ.4658 Either way it would be class

[@FazerGS]

There's a great Reddit thread explaining all this. Shinji and Mari are still in the Imaginary Dimension in the final scene of the movie and are escaping it right as the credits roll. Seeing the other characters on the train platform is a metaphor for how they worked out their baggage. The village still exists, as can be seen in the shots showing that the escape pods and Asuka's plug made it back to the village. Shinji was initially going to sacrifice himself for the sake of the others, hence the "give my regards to Kensuke" line, but Mari rescues Shinji from the imaginary dimension and it's presumed they return to the village after this. The footage of Anno's hometown is just something meta and not literally what the world was "reset" to.

[@themegatonmenace1224]

This movie confirmed that Rebuild is a Sequel to EoE.

[@EvaMonkey]

That is how some interpret it, but I'm not entirely convinced. Like, Eva already has this alternate/multi-verse thing going on... but I just don't see them as being directly linked to one another. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've had time to do a complete re-watch/re-read of the franchise, but for now, I respectfully disagree. And just to be completely clear, I'm not saying your read isn't valid, I just don't share it.

[@8bitdee]

No it doesn't. All it confirms is that Kaworu has been reliving the events of the Rebuilds multiple times. He has been reliving a time loop of THIS universe, the Rebuild universe. But nowhere does it make a the clear distinction that after Shinji tried to choke Asuka at the end of EoE the universe got reset. None at all.

[@whtunderdog5378]

@@EvaMonkey Is more like the eternal return of Nietzsche not a multiuniverse

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

​@@EvaMonkey I rather have a multiverse then a time loop. because if this was a time loop then things are going to be more complicated and confusing.
At least a Multiverse is more easier to understand.

[@kolardgreene3096]

Hearing EvaMonkey explain the plot of this movie is so fucking funny

[@EvaMonkey]

I hope that's a good thing. :/

[@kolardgreene3096]

@@EvaMonkey It is lol

[@darmansbar7900]

1:43:00
To Be Fair
Evangelion always was about "Touching grass" even tho I agree with the point made

[@mercenaryknight5419]

I love the previous Rebuild films as they make a great trilogy and I will defend those films to the death, I agree with a lot of what is said here on the final. I found this one a disappointment in many major aspects too.
Also, note how the first three were about major lessons with their titles, but this did not have one. Says a lot, eh?
To me this is the least well done of the Rebuild films. It did not feel as congruous with the previous three as it could have been and it did seem like it retconned major details from the first three Rebuilds. The ending also felt incomplete to me. The first three feel like a complete trilogy, but Thrice Upon A Time feels like an attempt at an epilogue than a final chapter. The fact it took NINE years to get this film made likely was a reason.
Another thing, I can't help but feel the final film lost a lot of things in the editing room as major details are seemingly skipped, like there are missing scenes.
Seven years ago, the short film Until You Come To Me done for the Studio Khara Japan-Animator Expo felt more like a conclusion to Rebuild than this film.

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

Now that the dust has settled.
Is it fair to say that the rebuilds are on the same level as the Star Wars prequels?
I’m curious if people would agree with that statement.

[@fcwaffles]

anno decided to close the case with this movies. disney just started the whole sequel madness

[@Jsimms1324]

No, these characters are better than anything the prequels could muster up. These movies are also visually more impressive and better written as a whole. Not to say they’re perfect, but I’ll take them anyday over those prequels.

[@victorvalencia5822]

Not the prequels, it would be on the same level as the sequels.

[@benparker4361]

Excited to watch this in the morning, just hope you cant convince me I'm wrong for how much I enjoyed and was satisfied with the movie hahaha

[@rickytripp1107]

Ngl the most surprising thing about this podcast was seeing so many Kare Kano fans in one place. It always seems like a show fans who really know Anno’s works mention in passing but barely ever make videos about.

[@EvaMonkey]

In that case, I'll just say that it's on my short list for a future installment.

[@luisruiz5933]

will there be another movie explaining what happened between the 14 year time skip???, 2.22-3.33?

[@nickschulz7085]

I think 3.0+1.0 is more of a coming of age message to the viewers. (Curse of eva is all of us who have been stuck talking about NGE/EoE for years). Then in real life, things happen that totally knock you over (eg Mari) who wasnt around when your younger and going through the angst of highschool and even college. Shinji is portraying the audience letting go of Eva from an obsessive perspective which Anno didnt want to happen with original Eva.

[@4Clubs]

It's presumptuous to think that you can mend the fandom with the Rebuild series. Though I agree that was likely the sentiment that animated this production, judging by the interviews.

[@Grudgebearer47]

It was good, but could have done without the whole “anime is bad” rant at the end

[@patrickweller5254]

Where was that?

[@Lesandira]

Call to Adventure, Fun & Games, Dark Night of the Soul - someone has memorized their Heroes' Journey / Save the Cat! story beat elements. I like it

[@holku1990]

Does anybody have the 1 hour goat Jesus video with the Angela anaconda picture?

[@capsuez]

Apparently, he took it down and is planning to make a full one at some point. I'd love to listen to that thing again. That was the only video that really drilled into 3+1 with the disrespect it deserved.

[@thepsychopotato]

Death collars. A fashion statement. Nice. Hahaha!

[@sentz.]

1:37:34 I think the world reset is just for those in the anti Universe... Everyone outside lives in the normal World and shinji lives in the New World

[@hm.82234]

The metanarrative concept is so interesting

[@khaii13]

oh, also, in 1.0 opening scene, you can see the difference in tokyo 3. the sea is red, places where the Eva landed in battle on the original series are there, just before the angel appeared in front of Shinji you can see the ship asuka threw during EOE, the blood streak from lilith rei on the moon. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed these things. what else were the loop things you noticed prior to watching 3.0+1.0?
[edit] prologue anyone? like the setup leading up to the second impact? and why was the giant of light looking uncanily more like an eva than lilith if he was the first angel adam? and maybe tie in the story with mari, since most likely it was her cells used for contact with "adam" causing second impact and giving her the so called curse of EVA.

[@oscia3741]

Also, why the Hell didn't Maya end up with Ritsuko!!! They didn't awknowledge her attraction to her afghhggh!!

[@PharosAnonymous]

I want to love 3.0+1.0 so much but I can’t

[@red878787]

3.0+1.0 was masterfully ended. A perfect ending for Anno and evangelion - from his depressed and angst driven end of evangelion to his mature and hopeful 3.0+1.0. it's an evolution of Anno and progression through life. Go out and live and love people.

[@hajobo2003]

all I wanted for this film was a satisfying conclusion that didn't end on a downer note and I got that, as someone who really doesn't like the ending of EoE I massively appreciated the tonal shift; imo this movie will be more liked as time passes, but honestly right now it's my favourite out of the Eva series.

[@patrickweller5254]

Its a bit unclear if the world is new or not. You can see that Asuka and the Wille crew land back in the village.

[@godzillakingofkaiju6366]

8:30 could you please tell me where you heard this. I’m working on a Rebuild video and I’d be extremely grateful for your help!

[@Bronzeman-el5hr]

I do think that the new world could still be the future of post 4th impact due to Ikaris DSS choker still on him cause the magic anti-L containment field essential turns the world back to normal. Its so ambiguous that both point of views are true. Though the re-write is much more likely.

[@Jsimms1324]

I felt like Brendan’s opinion really lined up with mine. He did a good job of explaining his points for liking it. Chester offered some good points as well

[@AjeoDub]

In my opinion, Shinji send each "main" character to a different Evangelion Universe:
* Asuka ends with Kensuke in the Rebuild Universe
* Rei goes to the happy world of Neon Genesis Evangelion (where she is the new classmate)
* Kaworu is part of Nerv with Kaji in other Universe
* Shinji with Mari in ours Universe? (where Asuka, Kaworu and Rei exist, but they do not know each other)
For me, Shinji has to left behing his old friends to move forward in his new life without Evangelion.