Hardy's Integral

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  • Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 80

  • @michaeljin101
    @michaeljin101 Місяць тому +28

    Thanks!

    • @xinpingdonohoe3978
      @xinpingdonohoe3978 Місяць тому +11

      @@michaeljin101 woah, you *really* wanted this integral done.

  • @kostasch5686
    @kostasch5686 Місяць тому +20

    What an excellent approach. For anyone wondering, the simplest form using only factorials at the end is:
    In=pi/2*sum (2k)!*(2n-2k)!/[k!*(n-k)!]^2*a^(-1/2-k)*b^(-1/2-n+k)

  • @GFJDean35
    @GFJDean35 Місяць тому +3

    Really respect your continued dedication to the UA-cam game Michael

  • @PleegWat
    @PleegWat Місяць тому +11

    The final solution as displayed suggests it is negative half the time due to the (-1)^n term. However that cancels against minus signs embedded in the two binomial coefficients, and the value is actually always positive.

  • @get2113
    @get2113 Місяць тому +6

    Very clever. One of the professors best recently. My preference is analysis over number theory, but others might like all that prime number stuff.😅

  • @whizgranny6203
    @whizgranny6203 Місяць тому +1

    Inside Interesting Integrals... One of my favorite books!

  • @Ben-rd3mg
    @Ben-rd3mg Місяць тому

    Just a stunning solution

  • @calculusmethods
    @calculusmethods Місяць тому +2

    Nice integral

  • @EconAtheist
    @EconAtheist Місяць тому

    Cool! I gotta get that book from the library.

  • @minamagdy4126
    @minamagdy4126 Місяць тому +5

    I believe you can factor out a (-1)^n by turning the final combinations to be combinations of positive half-integers, whic would then cancel the same term outside the sum. Also, I would've liked to see what simplifications come about by taking a factorial-onlu representation

  • @robin1826
    @robin1826 21 день тому

    Lovely!

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 Місяць тому +16

    13:44 Where’s Laurel?

    • @BarryRowlingsonBaz
      @BarryRowlingsonBaz Місяць тому +1

      That's another fine math you got me into Stanley!

    • @yoav613
      @yoav613 Місяць тому

      Laurel?

    • @yoav613
      @yoav613 Місяць тому

      This laurel?ua-cam.com/video/Sbltu2_DATQ/v-deo.htmlsi=RzrbJAYiWBReqfHt

    • @BarryRowlingsonBaz
      @BarryRowlingsonBaz Місяць тому +2

      @@yoav613 this Laurel ua-cam.com/video/B13QoA59tA4/v-deo.html because Hardy...

    • @yoav613
      @yoav613 Місяць тому

      @@BarryRowlingsonBaz oh ok,thanks😃

  • @holyshit922
    @holyshit922 Місяць тому +4

    My first Idea was to derive recurrence relation for I(n)
    but I tried to derive recurrence without using Leibnitz rule for integration

  • @TedHopp
    @TedHopp Місяць тому +17

    Nice problem and solution. Maybe I'm being nit-picky, but at 13:40, it seems off the mark to call a summation "a nice closed-form solution". I would want to evaluate the sum in closed form before describing the solution that way.

    • @BrianGriffin83
      @BrianGriffin83 Місяць тому +1

      So, after all, that was not such a good place to stop...

    • @justcuzy3673
      @justcuzy3673 Місяць тому +2

      True, it would be nice to have a more closed form, but here's what happens:
      Pull out constants- (1/2)!^2, a^(-1/2), and b^(-n-1/2)
      Remainder- (pi^2/2)*(-1/b)^n/(ab)^1/2xSum{1/k!*1/(n-k)!*1/(1/2-k)!*1/(1/2-n+k)!*(b/a)^k}
      One look at this sum should somewhat breakdown the idea; there is no closed form (no, I won't prove this here). As such, we leave the formula in its "cleanest" form, which is what was provided at the end. While it may seem unsatisfactory, there are many other such series definitions for the likes of the elliptic integrals and even definitions for transcendentals like pi and e.

    • @TedHopp
      @TedHopp Місяць тому +3

      @@justcuzy3673 Oh, I have no problem with the solution as presented. I just wouldn't call it a "closed-form solution."
      I agree with you that the prospects for evaluating that sum in closed form seem rather dim.

    • @get2113
      @get2113 Місяць тому +1

      Give the prof a break. Hi final answer is simple to program up eliminating any need for numerical integration.

    • @HPTopoG
      @HPTopoG Місяць тому +3

      It’s a finite sum, so it counts as a closed form. Typically one only has issues with summations not being closed forms when they include infinitely many terms. (The main reason for not considering these closed forms is because of potential convergence issues.)

  • @alexchan4226
    @alexchan4226 27 днів тому

    pie/2, 0, a/b, b/a, ab

  • @felipegomabrockmann2740
    @felipegomabrockmann2740 Місяць тому

    awesome !

  • @r.maelstrom4810
    @r.maelstrom4810 23 дні тому

    Shouldn't be (-1/2)(-3/2)(-5/2)···(-1/2-k+1) for the combinatorial number to be (-1/2)_C_k? And the same goes for the second one.

  • @josepherhardt164
    @josepherhardt164 Місяць тому +2

    Do mathematicians lie awake nights composing "impossible" integrals?

    • @douglaszare1215
      @douglaszare1215 Місяць тому +5

      Typically at the time of Hardy, physicists or engineers would encounter integrals like this when performing some approximation (suppose cows are not perfect spheres, but oblate spheroids--how does that perturb the results?) or an inverse Fourier transform, and when they had trouble they would ask a mathematician for help.

  • @mohamedtahiri4388
    @mohamedtahiri4388 Місяць тому +5

    It's very important and higher technics of solving this type of integral thanks for sharing this

  • @statebased
    @statebased Місяць тому +1

    Inside Interesting Integrals by Paul J. Nahin

    • @Alphabet576
      @Alphabet576 Місяць тому +1

      it’s really good i’ve read through it multiple times lol

  • @bergeenglert5169
    @bergeenglert5169 9 днів тому

    The simplest way of stating the result is in terms of the (n-1)th Legendre polynomial.

  • @AnkhArcRod
    @AnkhArcRod Місяць тому +78

    Can we please all agree to just call it Leibnitz rule and not Feynman's trick?

    • @primenumberbuster404
      @primenumberbuster404 Місяць тому +19

      What's in the name? We call it the "try differentiating under the integral" rule.

    • @debtanaysarkar9744
      @debtanaysarkar9744 Місяць тому +3

      Nooooooo

    • @davidruhdorfer3857
      @davidruhdorfer3857 Місяць тому +20

      I would agree, but the guy's name is Leibniz, not Leibnitz.

    • @bjornfeuerbacher5514
      @bjornfeuerbacher5514 Місяць тому +12

      @AnkhArcRod: Leibniz invented the rule, but as far as I know, it was Feynman who first used it extensively for actually calculating integrals. So both names fit.

    • @bjornfeuerbacher5514
      @bjornfeuerbacher5514 Місяць тому +2

      @@davidruhdorfer3857 That's true starting from 1671; before, there were varying different versions of how his name was written. (And his father's name was actually Leibnütz.)

  • @Calcprof
    @Calcprof Місяць тому

    With the product of the binomials, factor out all the 1/2's, then you are left with two products of odd integers, which you re-write in terms of factorials. {\displaystyle (2k-1)!!={\frac {(2k)!}{2^{k}k!}}={\frac {(2k-1)!}{2^{k-1}(k-1)!}}\,.} I'm not sure this makes things simpler, because I haven't actually done it! 🙂

  • @yukfaicheung7484
    @yukfaicheung7484 Місяць тому

    hardy, cambridge professor

  • @thatman3107
    @thatman3107 Місяць тому +2

    Can someone help me understand the expansion using the binomial formula at 9:00?

    • @jesusalej1
      @jesusalej1 Місяць тому

      Why make it easier if it can be made more complicated.

  • @roberthead9149
    @roberthead9149 28 днів тому

    I wish I understood what this was all about

  • @Achill101
    @Achill101 Місяць тому

    Does the end result help us in other problems, compared to evaluating the integral atnthe start numerically for given n, a, and b?

  • @theartisticactuary
    @theartisticactuary Місяць тому +3

    I'd tidy it up a little more. Bring b^n and 1/sqrt(ab) common factors out to where they belong, to the left of the summation sign

  • @kmlhll2656
    @kmlhll2656 Місяць тому

    Waw waw waw !

  • @aidansgarlato9347
    @aidansgarlato9347 Місяць тому

    can you analytically continue the last statement for n to the complex plane?

    • @TomFarrell-p9z
      @TomFarrell-p9z Місяць тому

      I was wondering about whether the technique could be modified for real, or at least rational n. But then there is no termination for the iteration of integrals where Michael solves for n = 1.

  • @seanfife
    @seanfife Місяць тому

    Any way this extends to Rational numbers for n?

  • @hoodedR
    @hoodedR Місяць тому +3

    Could have all been a lot simplier bh exploiting symmetry at any step before he binomial expansion. we can see that I is symmetric about the transformation ab and so dI/da = dI/db. You can also prove it rigorously by using the substitution x=π/2-x in either expression for dI/da or dI/db

    • @alricboullemant3117
      @alricboullemant3117 Місяць тому +1

      The substitution doesn't quite work, you'll have an a*sin(x)^2 + b*cos(x)^2 in the denominator, so dI/da ≠ dI/db... maybe you meant that we have dI/da (a,b) = dI/db (b,a) and vice-versa, which I'm pretty sure is definitely the case. This doesn't really simplify stuff tho
      If there was that first symmetry then the final result would indeed have a much nicer expression

    • @Achill101
      @Achill101 Місяць тому

      Penn used the symmetry by writing the forms for b without discussion, because it was the same form as for a.

    • @hoodedR
      @hoodedR Місяць тому

      @@alricboullemant3117 ahh yeah you're right 🤔 I jumped the gun there a bit. My bad

  • @GokmatematikMATEMatik
    @GokmatematikMATEMatik Місяць тому

    HEY AM HARDYY HE I AM EASLYYYYYYYYYYYYY

  • @Alan-zf2tt
    @Alan-zf2tt Місяць тому

    Knee jerk reaction at 0:02 Oh no! It has got an I in it. A capital I.
    And it is followed by 'n' a lower case 'n'. Two tricky letters added together must make a very tricky integral In 🙂 in 'I' and in 'n'

  • @gp-ht7ug
    @gp-ht7ug Місяць тому +1

    From 09:04 onwards 🤔😵‍💫

    • @MrMctastics
      @MrMctastics Місяць тому +1

      One short class in multiplicative number theory or enumerative combinatorics will make you sick of discrete convolutions!

  • @shubhanyujain5208
    @shubhanyujain5208 Місяць тому

    first