I did a S.W.A.G. with my sub placement and my (favorite) chair is the sweetspot. It is bottom firing and my floor is hardwood. It is in the center of a 12x45 foot double wide about 18 inches from the wall. I like how the whole room acts like an amphitheater. The bass is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. You never focus on the sub. 😊
i've agreed my bookshelves with two subs at 60Hz i figured out that the gain and crossover adjustments change the phase of the signal, so i tried to match them in the near field as a full compensation and then switched the phase to 180
@@ahmettaneri 48db ovtave? That's a very STEEEP x-over👀 Sound like it would be better rolling it off a bit slower. Atleast in my experience in all my years of doing it. And man.. The speakers have to be pretty dull if they need help at over 100Hz👀😬 That's the first time I have heard.
@@West3rror Beyond 80hz high steep cross almost a must. Otherwise vocal sounds very problemetic. Actually speakers not dull that freq region but some records lack proper kicks. Sometime I use 80hz 24dB oct it depends how good record is. In car audio systems I always use much smoother crossing but using high pass front speaker make a big difference. At home audio dont want to much interference main speakers.
A lot of subwoofers for studio monitoring have a very steep LPF with a 24 dB/Oct slope in the region of about 80 Hz - some go even a bit higher (depending on the main speakers).
Paul, given how cheap it is to measure (a £100 mic and stand) and REW is free, I think people serious about bass should read up a little and then you can actually see what's going on. It makes the job of setting much, much easier and although you may prefer something that looks 'worse' you can understand why and what's going on
Hello! I hope I will get through with this question here: does it make a big difference if you install mid woofers in two enclosures which are not identical? I mean one is 5 liter and the other one is 5,5 liter? Will it ruin base they give? I don't think this question has come already. Thank you
Paul, a doubt... A colleague of mine stated that in a High-End or Hi-Fi system there should “always” be the presence of a subwoofer, because without the presence of a subwoofer we will not have the reproduction of the lower frequencies. Is this statement correct or incorrect?
If your going to have what I call a Fill sub great but...Let's not forget about the arguably more important, high level wired stereo sub's. If your mains go down to 30hz then maybe a fill sub is all that is needed. Most of our main's do not go that low. I know your FR30's do. I do not see the need for a fill sub in my system as I run stereo sub's that handle everything below 40hz supporting my AR Classic 30's. No fill sub required. How would you wire this fill sub? summed mono? high level, RCA outs? Speaker cabled directly from the amp terminals?
Indeed we don't have much here left where Michael is at but maybe Deetes and Magnolia. Every dealer has their own take and while Deetes is good people his offerings, while excellent, are not everybody's cup of tea. Also Paradyme comes to mind.
so my polk ES60's go down to 36, If I get you right I should start at 26? sure wish my Marantz would go down that low. :) btw, you are the Oracle of sound :)
I did it the same way myself. I used a db spectometer app to see at which low frequency my speakers are going silent at my listening position and used that as an entry point frequency on my sub. The rest was listening if I can locate my sub.
a high power sub woofer , should be able to radiate at leasts 600 W , of extended bass right down to less than 20 Hertz , of music power , as much as it would concerned , only certain type of music would manifests , this sub bass clarity , for examples a classical performance of a strings double bass pieces .
What a subwoofer does for me is not add extension but add punch to the sound in a big room. I have B&W 702's but my room is 30x25 with 10 foot ceilings and without a sub they just sound thin.
In my experience I need to let the sub go higher up than the roll off frequency of the speaker. Depending of the room etc I usualy end up having a 20-30Hz "overlap". I.e my speakers go down to 32Hz. My sub plays up to around 60Hz (don't remember the setting 100%) and that works great in my room. In a car I sometimes have to make the overlap bigger. I.e the sub plays to maybe 80, 100 or 125Hz while the speakers are rolled off somewhere between 60-80Hz depending on the system and so on. So there is no concrete rule or correct setting. You just need to use a good varaity of nusic and test, adjust, test, adjust and so on till it works great on everything.
THX is movies, not audio. THX will have a crossover on the main speakers, to roll the bass off from them. Paul isn't rolling off the mains, he's keeping them full range. Crossing to subs at 80hz, you'll likely hear the sub. Soundstage information will be lost. But, if we're just after sound FX & maximum volume, this doesn't matter.
That's what I thought ass well. I've been running my two 12" in 80hz it's great on som music, but a bit overwhelming on other. I tried 40 hz but that leaves my fronts unassisted on many music tracks. After fiddling upp and down I settled on 60 Hz. I actually think that was overall a better tune for my settup. I have big fronts but a bit to small room. So It goes to show, it all depends on the room I guess, and tast of course..
I did a S.W.A.G. with my sub placement and my (favorite) chair is the sweetspot. It is bottom firing and my floor is hardwood. It is in the center of a 12x45 foot double wide about 18 inches from the wall. I like how the whole room acts like an amphitheater. The bass is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. You never focus on the sub. 😊
i've agreed my bookshelves with two subs at 60Hz
i figured out that the gain and crossover adjustments change the phase of the signal, so i tried to match them in the near field as a full compensation and then switched the phase to 180
Thanks for the great advice, Paul! Love your v. helpful videos. Many thanks from (another) Paul in Japan! (ex-Scotland)
Hello
I'm glad to hear it. I just did it a week ago, I'm very satisfied with the result.
good information.
My friend who loves his organ music crosses over his 12" Goodmans Axiom 301 "subtly" to his subwoofer at 110 Hz!
i got 180hz on my subwoofers, i have two stereo subwoofers of course. if the main speakers do not have 110hz punch the subwoofers need to do it.
It all depends on the steepness of the LPF in your sub and the range of the main speakers. The other parameters are your room and the furniture.
I'm sometimes cross over my stereo 12" sealed subs 112.5hz 48db/oct. This is help a lot main speakers punch.
@@ahmettaneri 48db ovtave? That's a very STEEEP x-over👀 Sound like it would be better rolling it off a bit slower. Atleast in my experience in all my years of doing it. And man.. The speakers have to be pretty dull if they need help at over 100Hz👀😬 That's the first time I have heard.
@@West3rror Beyond 80hz high steep cross almost a must. Otherwise vocal sounds very problemetic. Actually speakers not dull that freq region but some records lack proper kicks. Sometime I use 80hz 24dB oct it depends how good record is. In car audio systems I always use much smoother crossing but using high pass front speaker make a big difference. At home audio dont want to much interference main speakers.
A lot of subwoofers for studio monitoring have a very steep LPF with a 24 dB/Oct slope in the region of about 80 Hz - some go even a bit higher (depending on the main speakers).
Paul, given how cheap it is to measure (a £100 mic and stand) and REW is free, I think people serious about bass should read up a little and then you can actually see what's going on. It makes the job of setting much, much easier and although you may prefer something that looks 'worse' you can understand why and what's going on
Subs with a good EQ can make a huge difference , mostly cuts and very small boosts. 😊
Thank You MR. McGowan!!! Your My Audio Bible Thumper... HaHaHa Pun Intended 😂👍👍
Hello! I hope I will get through with this question here: does it make a big difference if you install mid woofers in two enclosures which are not identical? I mean one is 5 liter and the other one is 5,5 liter? Will it ruin base they give? I don't think this question has come already. Thank you
How do I make it a question to you, Paul?
Paul, a doubt... A colleague of mine stated that in a High-End or Hi-Fi system there should “always” be the presence of a subwoofer, because without the presence of a subwoofer we will not have the reproduction of the lower frequencies. Is this statement correct or incorrect?
If your going to have what I call a Fill sub great but...Let's not forget about the arguably more important, high level wired stereo sub's. If your mains go down to 30hz then maybe a fill sub is all that is needed. Most of our main's do not go that low. I know your FR30's do. I do not see the need for a fill sub in my system as I run stereo sub's that handle everything below 40hz supporting my AR Classic 30's. No fill sub required. How would you wire this fill sub? summed mono? high level, RCA outs? Speaker cabled directly from the amp terminals?
Indeed we don't have much here left where Michael is at but maybe Deetes and Magnolia. Every dealer has their own take and while Deetes is good people his offerings, while excellent, are not everybody's cup of tea. Also Paradyme comes to mind.
so my polk ES60's go down to 36, If I get you right I should start at 26? sure wish my Marantz would go down that low. :) btw, you are the Oracle of sound :)
I did it the same way myself. I used a db spectometer app to see at which low frequency my speakers are going silent at my listening position and used that as an entry point frequency on my sub. The rest was listening if I can locate my sub.
a high power sub woofer , should be able to radiate at leasts 600 W , of extended bass right down to less than 20 Hertz , of music power , as much as it would concerned , only certain type of music would manifests , this sub bass clarity , for examples a classical performance of a strings double bass pieces .
What a subwoofer does for me is not add extension but add punch to the sound in a big room. I have B&W 702's but my room is 30x25 with 10 foot ceilings and without a sub they just sound thin.
The deepest fundamental tone of a double bass has about 40 Hz. The big tuba goes a bit deeper.
I have a sub per channel. The only channel without a sub is the center channel. I have my subwoofers front and back
Paul keeps saying all systems need a subwoofer, but why haven't I seen any subwoofer in any Paul room?
because PS Audio doesn't make one yet.
He jas one massive REL behind his 💺 seating position, check last 2 video,but am not sure its connected 😢
He often tells of having and using them.
they're usually 8 foot high
Most of FR's and Aspens goes below 25hz already
my main speakers are rated 44-28k(-6db). Where should set my sub? it is currently set at 80hz
It's obvious that PS Audio is working on a subwoofer that is about to be announced soon.
Paul has *always* pushed subwoofers. He's a big REL subs fan.
In my experience I need to let the sub go higher up than the roll off frequency of the speaker. Depending of the room etc I usualy end up having a 20-30Hz "overlap".
I.e my speakers go down to 32Hz. My sub plays up to around 60Hz (don't remember the setting 100%) and that works great in my room. In a car I sometimes have to make the overlap bigger. I.e the sub plays to maybe 80, 100 or 125Hz while the speakers are rolled off somewhere between 60-80Hz depending on the system and so on. So there is no concrete rule or correct setting. You just need to use a good varaity of nusic and test, adjust, test, adjust and so on till it works great on everything.
Buy good speakers 😊
Subwoofer is still needed. 🙂
The best speakers ever made will still have cancellations (distance between speaker and wall) that a coincident additional driver won't solve.
He's talking started your sub crossover at 40ĥz but THX recommends 80hz regardless of the frequency response of the main speakers
THX is movies, not audio. THX will have a crossover on the main speakers, to roll the bass off from them. Paul isn't rolling off the mains, he's keeping them full range. Crossing to subs at 80hz, you'll likely hear the sub. Soundstage information will be lost. But, if we're just after sound FX & maximum volume, this doesn't matter.
That's what I thought ass well. I've been running my two 12" in 80hz it's great on som music, but a bit overwhelming on other. I tried 40 hz but that leaves my fronts unassisted on many music tracks. After fiddling upp and down I settled on 60 Hz. I actually think that was overall a better tune for my settup. I have big fronts but a bit to small room. So It goes to show, it all depends on the room I guess, and tast of course..