I like the rare forays into Modern Image, thanks Sam. re: Matching up to the US wagon, surely that's a different scale (HO rather than OO), so matching up would be quite an unlikely coincidence.
I've paused to read the instructions. When running on DC, it seems that the tail light can be turned off by touching the side of the wagon... There's great engineering put in these thing.
I bought eight of these wagon upon release and although extremely heavy they do run well, even up my gradual inclines. The big problem I had was the knuckle coupling spring disappearing into outer space and then coupling is useless. I have over the past few months I found Dapol supply a socket that a tension lock will fit into OR West Hill Wagon works do a magnetic coupling which really is good.
That's great to hear - they do run great! Yes I've had that happen with this kind of knuckle couplers too, not an easy thing to fix! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
As a Canadian running models with only knuckle couplings, I can say the disconnecting knuckling couplers is a fault of the couplers themselves. Some work fine and others disconnect…I have replaced all of mine with diecast knuckle couplers to fix the issue
Hi mukka... 2000 mm is the distance between the wheel centres on the bogie. The little "turning wheel" is the wagon handbrake! Don’t forget, American wagons are in HO dimensions so the coupler will be closer to the ground... and I believe American wagons, in reality, have a slightly lower coupler height. Greetings from Oz. Gaz
Wow just wow!!! These look amazing i am really getting into dapol recently the silver bullets look amazing which i got a rake of and even there budget unpainted range still has metal wheels really think they are becoming the new leader in wagons at the minute i think the half star for weight was a bit harsh and that flashing led is truly next level. but i do get what you mean great video as always look forward to the next
Hello Sam, great video as always!! The height difference between the american wagon and the hopper is because they are in different scales; the american one is in 1/87 and the british in 1/76...
the scale differenc is never so much I think this is about the prototyp the Couplings are anyway not on the right high. Besouse in reality is the coupling every Time between the Buffer and not below
Yup Sam, Absolute Nugget's! Although I don't know why you'd need Knuckle couplers in the middle and not drawbars. Aside of a maintenance problem, I doubt they even had time to uncouple these rakes of hopper cars in real life. If the weight of these cars is a problem I'm sure their's a solution for that, Too easy to cut the fat off any piece of rolling stock, but I'm sure it's not a problem if they roll good. I've also found extra weight can help keep cars to stay planted on the rails better over the years.
21:47 Quite a few American freight cars like to uncouple around curves, but the ones I've seen it happen to are quite light ones or those that only pivot in one direction. Maybe the heavy weight of these ones caused them to uncouple in reverse I think the coupler height might be the fact that these cars are 1:76 scale as opposed to 1:87 scale
Very good to see the tail light feature. I note that accurascale are doing twin packs of very similar wagons for around £75 / £67 (multiple from accurascale direct) with the tail light at no extra cost! Arguably a much better buy if they are good too. For me these are totally out of era but the weight to me is ridiculous. Yes we want metal locos but larger wagons over 100-125g are not going to be helix friendly whatsoever so for me they are flawed. Especially since they are clearly envisaged to run in prototypical rakes.
Nice video Sam.I have some of the Dapol Freightliner Heavy Haul wagons.£50 per pack of 2 when my first 2 turned up one of my wagons had a twisted axle box..it was so twisted a wheel set would not stay fixed in place.Hattons swapped it for me,i moaned and asked if they checked items before they sent them out,they said no they didnt and the checks should be done at the factory.I then bought a further 2 (my wife said i must be nuts) they turned up missing coupling hook and one of the wagons wont run properly unless i stick a track rubber above the bogie! So detail is great but id rather have something that runs better and not be so detailed !
These hoppers should ideally weigh around 180-185g, given the widely-recommended rolling-stock weight of 1g per mm of length over buffers. However, I can understand that Dapol would find it difficult to match that closely, with basically having to choose between a die-cast chassis, a die-cast body, or both. Their website does go into detail about the different couplings in the model description, though they don't specifically SAY 'you need to buy separate end and middle wagons to form a train' in so many words. Then again, this is a model for the hobbyist, not for the beginner who just wants to play trains. The working Flashing Rear End Device is a brilliant touch. Hopefully Dapol will also make this lamp and socket available as an accessory kit, so it can be fitted to other modern wagons as on the prototype. The strange uncoupling behaviour might be caused by a knuckle face dimension just a fraction of a millimetre too short. On the other hand, it does mean that automatic uncoupling can be achieved with careful shunting -- no need for any separate uncoupling rail or device. Outstanding model, excellent review.
Yeah... it's pretty over the top I think, but yes their decision to diecast the components they did definitely put the weight up there. And the lamp as a kit would be fantastic to see - I'd buy one for sure! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They are indeed impressive wagons! The most natural comparison is the Accurascale PTA wagons - which offer a similar level of detail (with the flashing tail lamp) for a considerably lower price (£149.95 for a pack of five). However, they aren't as heavy; there's no die-cast on them; and the tail lamp is user-unfriendly (it requires a CR2012 battery, which is not included and wasn't easy to find, and the switch is very small and easily damaged). If it weren't for the fact that they're sold out, I'd be interested to see a review of those!
Amazing! The Kadee couplings are mounted too high for normal use with magnetic uncouplers. Maybe that is why they have “automatic” slow speed reverse uncoupling! 😁
These items of rolling stock look really good compared to a lot out there. I think they could be well worth the cost. Dapol has really come into their own with range. I am impressed with these. Question: Do all the knuckle style couplings uncouple in reverse at slow speed? Is this something that could be checked with your Amercian models with that style?
They sure are Brendan - I think they were worth the money! I'm not sure about that - I've never noticed this before with my US models! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have rake of 8 of these wagons. All have been weathered to enhance the detail. The free rolling nature of these wagons enables typical Co Co loco’s hauling these, appear quite effortless.
Dapol is really doing an excellent job lately! I would be curious to see if their N gauge products are also improving in quality… The difference in height with the American rolling stock could be due to the different scale (00 vs H0) maybe?
The wagons are two different scales, though running on the same track - so the couplers wont match. If you really do want to mix your countries on one train though, Kaydee and McHenry make couplers that are elevated or below the drawbar.
Yes I do believe the weight, I do, I do, I do, they are Fantastic hopper wagons I love them. I have seen someone use these wagons with locomotives that have to be strong enough, which means you Cavalex of Heljan locomotives to pull a good train of these hoppers.
Great review again Sam! Was slightly puzzled watching the video: Price alright? Too heavy? Says Sam? Lol... But you're right, they are awesome. Regarding the auto-uncouple 'feature' - there is a set of Hunt couplings available for these wagons, they might solve the problem. Adds another 15 quid, for five wagons though (two ends). Thanks again!
Nice wagons Sam. That can be a problem with knuckle-couplers. I have a lot of U.S. rolling stock and they can even come apart while running forward with dire consequences on a round and round layout! If the couplers are slightly out of alignment or the track isn't quite perfect, specially on curves, they can be quite unforgiving. I sometimes wish it was possible to change them for 'tension locks' but they don't come with NEM pockets.
Thank you! Ahh interesting - I'll have to watch out for that in future, not noticed that happen before! Yeah it's unfortunate that the NEM standard isn't used everywhere - I quite like it! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, nice review of these beautiful wagons. As you probably know Kadee makes their coupling with NEM compatible shanks. You should have installed one in the end wagon in place of the tension lock coupling to see if the Kadee was at the correct height there. As for the couplings opening on the curve when reversed, the problem way be that the curved wire under the coupling may be hitting the end of the next wagon, causing the coupling to open and allowing the wagons to uncouple.
The height difference is deliberately done, it's because in real life the inner wagons have higher than standard couplings so hence the need for inner and outer wagons
The mass of the 12 open wagons might be equal to the hopper, but the friction of the wheels, bearings, and the extra friction in the curves will be less for the 8 wheels of the hopper compared to the 48 wheels of the 12 wagons. The pressure footprint per wheel of the 12 wagons will be markedly less than the hopper, but in a situation like the friction from the wheels, bearings, and curves should be significantly less for the hopper. All this to say that the comparison, on the track, will be less that 12 wagons per hopper. I'd be interested to see what the pulling force at the locomotive coupler is for 24 wagons compared to the 2 hoppers.
Sam, Possibly the uncoupling issue may be due to a malformed knuckle on one of those couplers. I would turn the middle wagon around and see if it still does it. If so look closely at the coupler to see if the plastic knuckle has some sort of deformity. This can easily be remedied by replacing the whole coupler with a Kadee designed for Nem Pockets. Love the wagons and your review but I wonder where the decoder goes? You said very little about the pickups and nothing at all about where the decoder fits. Also remember that even though they are heavy, I am sure any of the good 6 axle diesels with all wheel drive would haul them with ease. Think here your Class 37 from Bachmann. Keep up the good reviews please. Looking forward to an Accurascale Deltic review.
I know the weight is excessive, and also that it must put strain on your Locos, but would that kind of bulk numb acceleration to make it seem more realistic?
Not forgetting as well Sam..how heavy they would be if you were to put a load in them..of coal or something. Good one Sam..nice to see a 9 score. All the best.
These are the most expensive hopper trucks and trucks overall and the best hopper trucks and trucks overall I’ve ever seen for model railway rolling stock. All model railway trucks should have optional electric tail lamps now. Dapol yeoman hopper trucks ftw. Well done Dapol.
Have a rake of 15 had a few springs come out on the buckeye and the do come a part on points a lot and push the engine down any little slope But they are amazing to look at
I think if you were to remove the knuckle couplers and put them in the lower NEM sockets they might be at the same height as the American stock. I think those ones are designed for realism rather than as functioning Kadee couplers.
Sam I have a matching Diesel and rake of 9 freightliner hoppers the combination looks super and I wish to fit a light kit to one. Checking the Dapol site no such spare items are listed as an accessory, yes mine are also heavy but most of my diesels handle them on our club helix and other inclines. I have lost a couple of the white circular handles not recessed on mine unlike the ones you have, so spares are an issue. If you have any influence with Dapol or a source for such spares I would be very pleased to receive it. Been watching you on Utube keep it up, as have some others in our club a regular topic of conversation at meetings/ running sessions. from Bill down under
Great looking wagons. You're correct about the weathering - I've never seen a pristine one in real life, and indeed, some are covered in graffiti. I wonder if that will be offered as a deco option by Dapol?
This may be the first dapol products I approve of Mainly because the middle hoppers could look cool behind American engines and rolling stock (because of the knuckle couplers) and the end hoppers could help British engines couple up to American stock, and vice versa with US locomotives (yes, I would go there)
These look awesome; you should defo get a few more to at least test the 59's performance. The couplings I can't comment, I never use knuckle couplings. Someone has told me that these are heavier than the accurascale HYA/IIA hoppers, but a bachmann 66 struggles with my 16 of those hoppers (really need to investigate further because others have had bachmann 66s on a full rake of 24). Of course, the accurascale hoppers are mostly plastic with round metal weights in the hopper ends, and the tail lamps are battery powered.
haha I did think about it - would be cool to put a big rake together! Yeah I definitely can't see many locos managing a lot of these things! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
When describing the prototype, you didn''t quite get the information quite right, so I thought I'd add this in the comments. Exactly 100 PHA's (later recoded JHA) were built in 1989 by Orenstein & Koppel, Dortmund, with 19300 to 19331 being 'outers', and 19332 to 19399 being 'inners'. When first introduced, their main operational use was in Merehead to Acton, Botley, Brentford, Theal and Wooten Basset, hauled by Foster Yeoman Class 59/0's, but have been used to other terminals too. As well as covering increasing demand for stone in the late 80's, these wagons replaced the Procor bogie hoppers hired to Foster Yeoman in 1984, which were found to be unsuitable for heavy stone use due to their aluminium structure. In 1993 Foster Yeoman and ARC joined forces to found Mendip Rail, with assets owned by their parent companied (ARC now being owned by Hanson) but sharing resources of both companies wagons and Class 59's. During the British Rail era and into the early days of EWS, these wagons have been hauled by Class 56's, 58's, 59's, 60's, and on occasion, pairs of 37's. Freightliner currently have the contract to provide drivers and locos (the 59/2's owned by Freightliner) for Mendip Rail.
In real life & i'll use the U.S as an example there'd be multiple engines used which i assume you know regardless what country the hoppers are in. I assume dapol would expect the hoppers to be pulled & pushed with more than 1 engine as you'd have a whole train of hoppers ?. Regarding the built in auto uncoupling :p it's a good idea ,as it means you can have a runaway hopper heading downhill to a curve & the complimentary derailing & cleanup crew & crane in your diorama
I do root for dapol… they are innovative and more or less they are appropriately priced… I just hope they get those technical issues sorted out. A lot of models from them seem to have some kind of design flaw or a fault, like how their motors are a bit… weird. I would love them to get those issues sorted, they could become the industry leaders if they did. They would still have to compete with the brand loyalty Hornby and Bachmann have, which is one reason they still sell models when they are overpriced
I think the rolling resistance will be far less than 12 wagons despite the weight as you only have to move 4 sets of wheels which is the same as 2 wagons.
Yes that is true - I was only equating their weight, although on inclines the effect will still be massive compared to lighter wagons! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These are stunning Sam , great review as well Dapol have really got some good products in their range . Will you be getting one of their Manor class locomotives?
Sam Have you checked out Railroads Online, it's a sandbox online multiplayer Narrow/Mountain gauge based game it is US based game but they're looking at a 'workshop' so UK trains may be added
Great review! Dapol makes awesome rolling stock from any era. I wouldnt have knock it down a star as I wouldn't see the weight as excessive especially since they have roller bearings which reduces the friction. A half of a star I could understand for the coupling issue, though you could see it as a secret "hump shunting" feature that these wagons have since the issue only appears when your at the right speed, right curve, and moving in reverse which is more of a rare issue in a worst case senario and even an added benefit than a regular defect like those crazy egg vans🥚. I think 4.5 to 5 stars with the performance is appropriate.
Thanks Jason - they sure do! And that's fair enough - though the lack of friction in the bearings would only help them on the flat - when doing work against gravity (on even a small incline) the weight will have a massive impact, regardless of bearings. And definitely - it'd be great fun to try hump shunting with these! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review Sam definitely some wagons that I may look to get hold of in the future, I had heard some comments from some people on Twitter about the weight of these wagons but from what I have heard they are quite heavy.
Wow nice hopper wagons. O&K is a german company that made rail equpment and exavetors. i like the new dapol `s new hopper wagons. they show how a well built waggon look like. this is some thing for hornby to study when i comes to bulid quality. keep up the good work. 👍👍👍👍👍✨✨✨🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
hey sam, couldnt it also be the fact of american models are in HO scale, which is technically slightly smaller, be the reason the knuckles dont line up? Cause if an American loco were to be modeled in OO, the would be kinda "massive" compared to the british models
Huh, knuckle couples on the middle hoppers? That means you could pick up 3 or 4 of them and slap them behind any of your American engines that haven't been converted yet which is pretty cool I think. I might have to grab a small set XD
These look great dapols really gotten there act together recently also like the dad joke lol btb I was wondering if bulman would show up usually not so often on rolling stock reviews and the coupling is wrong for his truck so you'd have to push him and at that exact second I thought that the contest picked up bullman from behind the pillar well done there and good review of a great product
if you want a conversion wagon to run american rolling stock behind a british loco then why don't you order a set of kadee's in the #17-20 range ( 17's are short shank, up to 20's which are extra long) range of knuckle couplers that are designed to fit NEM pockets, and your done.
From the people that brought you the Egg Vans….. Really enjoyed this as it’s the first time you have reviewed wagons and then ran them as a train that I am looking to buy…albeit in N gauge. These are expected in N gauge from Dapol later this year, and here’s hoping we get some of these great features shrunk down! P.S: We in N gauge are due not one but two new Class 59 models from Dapol and Revolution Trains. Maybe you should look at Revolution trains as they do 00 as well?
I love them to be honest! If they did other less hefty wagons in diecast, I'd be extra impressed. Love the tail lamp feature, but the optic that joins it could do with painting black to get rid of the light bleed behind the lamp. Lovely models!
wow what a wagon Dapol provide nem for the rear wagon is there a interchangeable coupling for the wagon that you would hook up to your loco ??? or did I miss that keep up the good work
Hey Sam i would say these wagons are very good but bhe couplings detach easily as shown but the design is very clean...I think this will go great with a 9f, Black 5 and Merchant Navy. Cheers mate and have a good one!
Awesome wagons, if a little heavy. That and the price would be an issue if you wanted to run anywhere near a prototypical rake. As for the, er, 'auto'-uncoupling feature, that could well be due to the lack of tension in the couplings when running in reverse, together with the slow speed. Having said that, would the rakes of the real wagons ever be reverse-shunted in the traditional fashion?
Actually Sam, the uncoupling is an 'undocumented feature' incorporated by Dapol -- at least that's what we would retort when anyone came complaining about a bug in one of our programmes. ">)
Wow a very nice combination with the locomotive but oh my that weight is absolutely insane you truly need a big powerhouse to pull four of them up a hill which would look amazing but any more and you need a double header 😅 very impressive indeed. About the uncoupling thing in the curves it's not too big of a problem for me, though it's kinda funny and kinda annoying at the same time. Great review Sam 👍
haha yeah - I was glad to have a loco in the same livery! Yes the weight is crazy - but it makes a nice change! Had a few people say they like the uncoupling! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@0v3rr1d3 with realistic derailment weights sure to really break into those foamboard scenery buildings! Really collapse your embankments! Magnificent.
Hi Sam does your Hornby Railroad TTS sound A1 Tornado work on DC because mine doesn't work on DC and I have no way of testing the loco on DCC. Great video Sam.
No they don't work unfortunately - all the TTS locos are DCC only, though you can make them work on DC by removing the decoder and fitting a blanking plate in stead! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Ok. Thank you. I was a bit worried when it wouldn't run on DC. Shame for the price they couldn't do what Bachmann do where they work on DC and some even have working sounds.
Good models good video as always Here's a video experiment idea: How many of my models have a model scale weight? Locos and rolling stock closest to its weight in model form compared to actual wagon / loco
I guess as weight is a scale cubed function the weight of the OO wagon would have to be 1/76.2^3 = 2.26E-6 x actual weight. So JHA 102 tonne aggregate hopper wagon should weigh 0.23 kg.
Kadee does make couplers that are nem compatible! My Trix/Marklin Big Boy has nem pockets and uses the Kadee couplers in them from factory. You’ll have to check out their website and see if there’s one that is the correct height for a conversion wagon.
Bachmann has made EZ-mate couplers that fit into Nem pockets if you hadn't known. I have a few that I use on a british steam locomotive so I can use it to pull american coaches and double-head with an American locomotive. They are still available online.
These are fantastic wagons. I have a rake of 6 currently to run behind a Hornby yeoman class 59 which has been fitted with sound and lights. Hopefully will extend it further in the future. Great vid as usual 👍
Those are some very cool wagons. I wonder if other owners are able to build bigger rakes without overloading their locos, what with the metal bearings and all. Real life Class 59s can pull some huge rakes of JHAs, more than what's feasible on most model railways! The uncoupling shouldn't be happening without a magnet under or between the rails, though. Perhaps that's a consequence of using Kadee clones instead of the genuine article? I can sometimes get my Kadee-equipped rolling stock to automatically uncouple without a magnet, but it takes a lot of effort.
Oh just seen the pics on the hattons site, and as you know by now the end hoppers have buffers. Wow does adding two buffers to a wagon really cost ten quid more? Errm ok so perhaps adding the workings for the tail light adds to the cost, and all the diecast on them as well.
What a shame that the weight is so excessive, it would be completely impossible to run a realistic rake, which would be 20+. They look incredible though, but just not too practical
Bet you if Sam put the money into it, he could get an Athearn locomotive to pull said short lil' train. The weight of those things are the same as MOST rolling stock exceeding 50ft in length, and/or are articulated. Keep in mind, that there are some engines that alone can pull 50 cars/wagons up a 1.2% grade on a layout by them selves.
I wouldn't be surprised if the low friction with the better bearings and wheels will negate the high weight at least a fair bit. Sure on a incline a loco will struggle more. but on flat ground weight is not important. friction in the wagons and traction on the locomotive is what matters. These hoppers clearly have pretty low resistance as they roll freely. So unless you have a lot of inclines a long rake would not be a problem.
I like the rare forays into Modern Image, thanks Sam.
re: Matching up to the US wagon, surely that's a different scale (HO rather than OO), so matching up would be quite an unlikely coincidence.
I enjoyed this too! Yeah that's true too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've paused to read the instructions.
When running on DC, it seems that the tail light can be turned off by touching the side of the wagon... There's great engineering put in these thing.
haha yeah - it's amazing! Though I think this is just DCC - I tried it on DC and it didn't work!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I bought eight of these wagon upon release and although extremely heavy they do run well, even up my gradual inclines.
The big problem I had was the knuckle coupling spring disappearing into outer space and then coupling is useless.
I have over the past few months I found Dapol supply a socket that a tension lock will fit into OR West Hill Wagon works do a magnetic coupling which really is good.
That's great to hear - they do run great! Yes I've had that happen with this kind of knuckle couplers too, not an easy thing to fix!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
As a Canadian running models with only knuckle couplings, I can say the disconnecting knuckling couplers is a fault of the couplers themselves. Some work fine and others disconnect…I have replaced all of mine with diecast knuckle couplers to fix the issue
Hi Sam, the 2000 mm printed of the bogie denotes a 2000 mm/ 2 metre wheelbase bogie.
Duly noted, that makes sense - thanks! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Could also be Roman numerals, since MM = 2000!
Hi mukka... 2000 mm is the distance between the wheel centres on the bogie. The little "turning wheel" is the wagon handbrake! Don’t forget, American wagons are in HO dimensions so the coupler will be closer to the ground... and I believe American wagons, in reality, have a slightly lower coupler height. Greetings from Oz. Gaz
Wow just wow!!! These look amazing i am really getting into dapol recently the silver bullets look amazing which i got a rake of and even there budget unpainted range still has metal wheels really think they are becoming the new leader in wagons at the minute i think the half star for weight was a bit harsh and that flashing led is truly next level. but i do get what you mean great video as always look forward to the next
haha I am too - a lot of their models are awesome at the moment! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
they uncouple at slow speed with reversing force to simulate a hump/loose shunt scenario. an epic feature!!
haha awesome - you think it's intentional then? Though this only seems to happen on curves?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hello Sam, great video as always!! The height difference between the american wagon and the hopper is because they are in different scales; the american one is in 1/87 and the british in 1/76...
the scale differenc is never so much
I think this is about the prototyp
the Couplings are anyway not on the right high. Besouse in reality is the coupling every Time between the Buffer and not below
Yup Sam, Absolute Nugget's! Although I don't know why you'd need Knuckle couplers in the middle and not drawbars. Aside of a maintenance problem, I doubt they even had time to uncouple these rakes of hopper cars in real life. If the weight of these cars is a problem I'm sure their's a solution for that, Too easy to cut the fat off any piece of rolling stock, but I'm sure it's not a problem if they roll good. I've also found extra weight can help keep cars to stay planted on the rails better over the years.
21:47 Quite a few American freight cars like to uncouple around curves, but the ones I've seen it happen to are quite light ones or those that only pivot in one direction. Maybe the heavy weight of these ones caused them to uncouple in reverse
I think the coupler height might be the fact that these cars are 1:76 scale as opposed to 1:87 scale
Very good to see the tail light feature. I note that accurascale are doing twin packs of very similar wagons for around £75 / £67 (multiple from accurascale direct) with the tail light at no extra cost! Arguably a much better buy if they are good too.
For me these are totally out of era but the weight to me is ridiculous. Yes we want metal locos but larger wagons over 100-125g are not going to be helix friendly whatsoever so for me they are flawed. Especially since they are clearly envisaged to run in prototypical rakes.
Nice video Sam.I have some of the Dapol Freightliner Heavy Haul wagons.£50 per pack of 2 when my first 2 turned up one of my wagons had a twisted axle box..it was so twisted a wheel set would not stay fixed in place.Hattons swapped it for me,i moaned and asked if they checked items before they sent them out,they said no they didnt and the checks should be done at the factory.I then bought a further 2 (my wife said i must be nuts) they turned up missing coupling hook and one of the wagons wont run properly unless i stick a track rubber above the bogie! So detail is great but id rather have something that runs better and not be so detailed !
Ahh that's no good Michael - some Dapol models are very dodgy, I can attest to that... happily not these though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
For the uncoupling issue I see that as a feature not a bug.
Imagining having a hump yard type deal.
haha yeah a fair few people have said that - in that case awesome, not a drawback!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These hoppers should ideally weigh around 180-185g, given the widely-recommended rolling-stock weight of 1g per mm of length over buffers. However, I can understand that Dapol would find it difficult to match that closely, with basically having to choose between a die-cast chassis, a die-cast body, or both. Their website does go into detail about the different couplings in the model description, though they don't specifically SAY 'you need to buy separate end and middle wagons to form a train' in so many words. Then again, this is a model for the hobbyist, not for the beginner who just wants to play trains.
The working Flashing Rear End Device is a brilliant touch. Hopefully Dapol will also make this lamp and socket available as an accessory kit, so it can be fitted to other modern wagons as on the prototype.
The strange uncoupling behaviour might be caused by a knuckle face dimension just a fraction of a millimetre too short. On the other hand, it does mean that automatic uncoupling can be achieved with careful shunting -- no need for any separate uncoupling rail or device.
Outstanding model, excellent review.
Yeah... it's pretty over the top I think, but yes their decision to diecast the components they did definitely put the weight up there. And the lamp as a kit would be fantastic to see - I'd buy one for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They are indeed impressive wagons!
The most natural comparison is the Accurascale PTA wagons - which offer a similar level of detail (with the flashing tail lamp) for a considerably lower price (£149.95 for a pack of five). However, they aren't as heavy; there's no die-cast on them; and the tail lamp is user-unfriendly (it requires a CR2012 battery, which is not included and wasn't easy to find, and the switch is very small and easily damaged).
If it weren't for the fact that they're sold out, I'd be interested to see a review of those!
Amazing! The Kadee couplings are mounted too high for normal use with magnetic uncouplers. Maybe that is why they have “automatic” slow speed reverse uncoupling! 😁
Ahh interesting idea - sure could be that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These items of rolling stock look really good compared to a lot out there. I think they could be well worth the cost. Dapol has really come into their own with range.
I am impressed with these.
Question: Do all the knuckle style couplings uncouple in reverse at slow speed? Is this something that could be checked with your Amercian models with that style?
They sure are Brendan - I think they were worth the money! I'm not sure about that - I've never noticed this before with my US models!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have rake of 8 of these wagons.
All have been weathered to enhance the detail.
The free rolling nature of these wagons enables typical Co Co loco’s hauling these, appear quite effortless.
Dapol is really doing an excellent job lately! I would be curious to see if their N gauge products are also improving in quality…
The difference in height with the American rolling stock could be due to the different scale (00 vs H0) maybe?
SAM it is a feature for easy uncoupling in the shunting yard
The wagons are two different scales, though running on the same track - so the couplers wont match. If you really do want to mix your countries on one train though, Kaydee and McHenry make couplers that are elevated or below the drawbar.
Yes I do believe the weight, I do, I do, I do, they are Fantastic hopper wagons I love them. I have seen someone use these wagons with locomotives that have to be strong enough, which means you Cavalex of Heljan locomotives to pull a good train of these hoppers.
Great review again Sam! Was slightly puzzled watching the video: Price alright? Too heavy? Says Sam? Lol...
But you're right, they are awesome. Regarding the auto-uncouple 'feature' - there is a set of Hunt couplings available for these wagons, they might solve the problem. Adds another 15 quid, for five wagons though (two ends).
Thanks again!
Nice wagons Sam. That can be a problem with knuckle-couplers. I have a lot of U.S. rolling stock and they can even come apart while running forward with dire consequences on a round and round layout! If the couplers are slightly out of alignment or the track isn't quite perfect, specially on curves, they can be quite unforgiving. I sometimes wish it was possible to change them for 'tension locks' but they don't come with NEM pockets.
Thank you! Ahh interesting - I'll have to watch out for that in future, not noticed that happen before! Yeah it's unfortunate that the NEM standard isn't used everywhere - I quite like it! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, nice review of these beautiful wagons. As you probably know Kadee makes their coupling with NEM compatible shanks. You should have installed one in the end wagon in place of the tension lock coupling to see if the Kadee was at the correct height there. As for the couplings opening on the curve when reversed, the problem way be that the curved wire under the coupling may be hitting the end of the next wagon, causing the coupling to open and allowing the wagons to uncouple.
The height difference is deliberately done, it's because in real life the inner wagons have higher than standard couplings so hence the need for inner and outer wagons
The mass of the 12 open wagons might be equal to the hopper, but the friction of the wheels, bearings, and the extra friction in the curves will be less for the 8 wheels of the hopper compared to the 48 wheels of the 12 wagons. The pressure footprint per wheel of the 12 wagons will be markedly less than the hopper, but in a situation like the friction from the wheels, bearings, and curves should be significantly less for the hopper. All this to say that the comparison, on the track, will be less that 12 wagons per hopper. I'd be interested to see what the pulling force at the locomotive coupler is for 24 wagons compared to the 2 hoppers.
Sam, Possibly the uncoupling issue may be due to a malformed knuckle on one of those couplers. I would turn the middle wagon around and see if it still does it. If so look closely at the coupler to see if the plastic knuckle has some sort of deformity. This can easily be remedied by replacing the whole coupler with a Kadee designed for Nem Pockets.
Love the wagons and your review but I wonder where the decoder goes? You said very little about the pickups and nothing at all about where the decoder fits. Also remember that even though they are heavy, I am sure any of the good 6 axle diesels with all wheel drive would haul them with ease. Think here your Class 37 from Bachmann.
Keep up the good reviews please. Looking forward to an Accurascale Deltic review.
I know the weight is excessive, and also that it must put strain on your Locos, but would that kind of bulk numb acceleration to make it seem more realistic?
Yeah I think so - they would behave realistically!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Not forgetting as well Sam..how heavy they would be if you were to put a load in them..of coal or something. Good one Sam..nice to see a 9 score. All the best.
These are the most expensive hopper trucks and trucks overall and the best hopper trucks and trucks overall I’ve ever seen for model railway rolling stock. All model railway trucks should have optional electric tail lamps now. Dapol yeoman hopper trucks ftw. Well done Dapol.
Have a rake of 15 had a few springs come out on the buckeye and the do come a part on points a lot and push the engine down any little slope
But they are amazing to look at
I think if you were to remove the knuckle couplers and put them in the lower NEM sockets they might be at the same height as the American stock. I think those ones are designed for realism rather than as functioning Kadee couplers.
Sam
I have a matching Diesel and rake of 9 freightliner hoppers the combination looks super and I wish to fit a light kit to one.
Checking the Dapol site no such spare items are listed as an accessory, yes mine are also heavy but most of my diesels handle them on our club helix and other inclines. I have lost a couple of the white circular handles not recessed on mine unlike the ones you have, so spares are an issue. If you have any influence with Dapol or a source for such spares I would be very pleased to receive it. Been watching you on Utube keep it up, as have some others in our club a regular topic of conversation at meetings/ running sessions.
from Bill down under
Great looking wagons. You're correct about the weathering - I've never seen a pristine one in real life, and indeed, some are covered in graffiti. I wonder if that will be offered as a deco option by Dapol?
This may be the first dapol products I approve of
Mainly because the middle hoppers could look cool behind American engines and rolling stock (because of the knuckle couplers) and the end hoppers could help British engines couple up to American stock, and vice versa with US locomotives (yes, I would go there)
These look awesome; you should defo get a few more to at least test the 59's performance. The couplings I can't comment, I never use knuckle couplings.
Someone has told me that these are heavier than the accurascale HYA/IIA hoppers, but a bachmann 66 struggles with my 16 of those hoppers (really need to investigate further because others have had bachmann 66s on a full rake of 24). Of course, the accurascale hoppers are mostly plastic with round metal weights in the hopper ends, and the tail lamps are battery powered.
haha I did think about it - would be cool to put a big rake together! Yeah I definitely can't see many locos managing a lot of these things!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
On the uncoupling...if they work like a Kadee, they're meant to uncouple with some slack, but usually over a magnetic uncoupler.
Ahh interesting - wonder if it is intentional then?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
When describing the prototype, you didn''t quite get the information quite right, so I thought I'd add this in the comments.
Exactly 100 PHA's (later recoded JHA) were built in 1989 by Orenstein & Koppel, Dortmund, with 19300 to 19331 being 'outers', and 19332 to 19399 being 'inners'.
When first introduced, their main operational use was in Merehead to Acton, Botley, Brentford, Theal and Wooten Basset, hauled by Foster Yeoman Class 59/0's, but have been used to other terminals too.
As well as covering increasing demand for stone in the late 80's, these wagons replaced the Procor bogie hoppers hired to Foster Yeoman in 1984, which were found to be unsuitable for heavy stone use due to their aluminium structure.
In 1993 Foster Yeoman and ARC joined forces to found Mendip Rail, with assets owned by their parent companied (ARC now being owned by Hanson) but sharing resources of both companies wagons and Class 59's.
During the British Rail era and into the early days of EWS, these wagons have been hauled by Class 56's, 58's, 59's, 60's, and on occasion, pairs of 37's.
Freightliner currently have the contract to provide drivers and locos (the 59/2's owned by Freightliner) for Mendip Rail.
In real life & i'll use the U.S as an example there'd be multiple engines used which i assume you know regardless what country the hoppers are in. I assume dapol would expect the hoppers to be pulled & pushed with more than 1 engine as you'd have a whole train of hoppers ?. Regarding the built in auto uncoupling :p it's a good idea ,as it means you can have a runaway hopper heading downhill to a curve & the complimentary derailing & cleanup crew & crane in your diorama
Some amazing wagons. I love the Fred unit at the end and how it functions, would be cool to see it on the actual end instead of being the front car
With DCC you can configure the tail lamp to only work in 1 direction, as a diode, I'm surprized that it did work in both directions on analogue.
I like the little feature of the small lamp on the back
Cheers Jasper & Willow
I do too - amazing!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
are you going to make a rake Sam? To see how many cam comfortably hauled with the sheer weight?
Hey Sam, could you perhaps do a video on how to put on the accessories for the models if you haven't already?
Sorry forgot to mention. Hunt couplings, West Hill Wagon Works sell them.
i am buying these in n gauge. hopefully dapol do a good job with these ones too.
It’s nice to see that at least some manufacture’s care about both their quality and consumers.
haha very much so - very reassuring indeed!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
There could be some automatic shunting fun with those couplings at gradual speeds. Neat wagon and fun video :)
I do root for dapol… they are innovative and more or less they are appropriately priced…
I just hope they get those technical issues sorted out. A lot of models from them seem to have some kind of design flaw or a fault, like how their motors are a bit… weird. I would love them to get those issues sorted, they could become the industry leaders if they did.
They would still have to compete with the brand loyalty Hornby and Bachmann have, which is one reason they still sell models when they are overpriced
I think the rolling resistance will be far less than 12 wagons despite the weight as you only have to move 4 sets of wheels which is the same as 2 wagons.
Yes that is true - I was only equating their weight, although on inclines the effect will still be massive compared to lighter wagons!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These are stunning Sam , great review as well Dapol have really got some good products in their range .
Will you be getting one of their Manor class locomotives?
Thanks Darren, they sure are awesome! I sure will be doing :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam Have you checked out Railroads Online, it's a sandbox online multiplayer Narrow/Mountain gauge based game it is US based game but they're looking at a 'workshop' so UK trains may be added
Great review! Dapol makes awesome rolling stock from any era. I wouldnt have knock it down a star as I wouldn't see the weight as excessive especially since they have roller bearings which reduces the friction. A half of a star I could understand for the coupling issue, though you could see it as a secret "hump shunting" feature that these wagons have since the issue only appears when your at the right speed, right curve, and moving in reverse which is more of a rare issue in a worst case senario and even an added benefit than a regular defect like those crazy egg vans🥚. I think 4.5 to 5 stars with the performance is appropriate.
Thanks Jason - they sure do! And that's fair enough - though the lack of friction in the bearings would only help them on the flat - when doing work against gravity (on even a small incline) the weight will have a massive impact, regardless of bearings. And definitely - it'd be great fun to try hump shunting with these! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I feel the disconnection when they slow down is purposeful. It didn’t disconnect when going quickly
haha it could be! Though I only noticed this happen on curves!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam, have you ever brought one of the exclusive models from the York Railway Museum?
Great review Sam definitely some wagons that I may look to get hold of in the future, I had heard some comments from some people on Twitter about the weight of these wagons but from what I have heard they are quite heavy.
Sounds good David - I can recommend it! They are astoundingly heavy, that's for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
aaAA- i want to get one too now!! but do you NEED a middle hopper with it i dont think i understood that part?
Wow nice hopper wagons.
O&K is a german company that
made rail equpment and exavetors.
i like the new dapol `s new hopper wagons.
they show how a well built waggon look like.
this is some thing for hornby to study when i comes to bulid quality.
keep up the good work.
👍👍👍👍👍✨✨✨🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
Thanks a lot for the info - appreciate it my friend!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains you are wellcome sam.
Did you try a right hand reverse turn to see if they uncouple?
hey sam, couldnt it also be the fact of american models are in HO scale, which is technically slightly smaller, be the reason the knuckles dont line up? Cause if an American loco were to be modeled in OO, the would be kinda "massive" compared to the british models
Hey Sam is the 14xx the same size as the jinty or is it smaller
Huh, knuckle couples on the middle hoppers? That means you could pick up 3 or 4 of them and slap them behind any of your American engines that haven't been converted yet which is pretty cool I think. I might have to grab a small set XD
Sadly not - the couplings are at a different height to US models... these are designed specifically for the JHA :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These look great dapols really gotten there act together recently also like the dad joke lol btb I was wondering if bulman would show up usually not so often on rolling stock reviews and the coupling is wrong for his truck so you'd have to push him and at that exact second I thought that the contest picked up bullman from behind the pillar well done there and good review of a great product
Are not the American wagons HO scale so is it not fair that the couplings will be lower?
Sam will you be getting the dapol class 59 Foster Yeoman livery when it comes out to go with the wagons
if you want a conversion wagon to run american rolling stock behind a british loco then why don't you order a set of kadee's in the #17-20 range ( 17's are short shank, up to 20's which are extra long) range of knuckle couplers that are designed to fit NEM pockets, and your done.
From the people that brought you the Egg Vans…..
Really enjoyed this as it’s the first time you have reviewed wagons and then ran them as a train that I am looking to buy…albeit in N gauge.
These are expected in N gauge from Dapol later this year, and here’s hoping we get some of these great features shrunk down!
P.S: We in N gauge are due not one but two new Class 59 models from Dapol and Revolution Trains. Maybe you should look at Revolution trains as they do 00 as well?
I love them to be honest! If they did other less hefty wagons in diecast, I'd be extra impressed. Love the tail lamp feature, but the optic that joins it could do with painting black to get rid of the light bleed behind the lamp. Lovely models!
wow what a wagon Dapol provide nem for the rear wagon is there a interchangeable coupling for the wagon that you would hook up to your loco ??? or did I miss that keep up the good work
You have to buy an end hopper to couple to a loco, unless you want to modify/provide your own coupling for a middle hopper
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I can't wait for the N'Gauge version to come out
I've always thought these Dapol modern wagon wheels look a bit crude and unrealistic. What's your opinion?
I haven't really noticed - some of their bogies do for sure, never thought that about the wheels personally!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam i would say these wagons are very good but bhe couplings detach easily as shown but the design is very clean...I think this will go great with a 9f, Black 5 and Merchant Navy. Cheers mate and have a good one!
Yeah the detaching couplings are very annoying, but I only had it happen in reverse!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
9F or Merchant Navy?? Really??
@@MistaMatthews dude it's my choice...i bet 9f can pull like hundreds of those or maybe 80 or 90...but still its my choice ok...sue me
Awesome wagons, if a little heavy. That and the price would be an issue if you wanted to run anywhere near a prototypical rake. As for the, er, 'auto'-uncoupling feature, that could well be due to the lack of tension in the couplings when running in reverse, together with the slow speed. Having said that, would the rakes of the real wagons ever be reverse-shunted in the traditional fashion?
I wish more models had diecast details
Actually Sam, the uncoupling is an 'undocumented feature' incorporated by Dapol -- at least that's what we would retort when anyone came complaining about a bug in one of our programmes. ">)
You should try kadee ho train cars they have all separate parts all down to working sprung wheels!
Wow a very nice combination with the locomotive but oh my that weight is absolutely insane you truly need a big powerhouse to pull four of them up a hill which would look amazing but any more and you need a double header 😅 very impressive indeed. About the uncoupling thing in the curves it's not too big of a problem for me, though it's kinda funny and kinda annoying at the same time. Great review Sam 👍
haha yeah - I was glad to have a loco in the same livery! Yes the weight is crazy - but it makes a nice change! Had a few people say they like the uncoupling!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The uncoupling is almost the coolest feature! Auto uncoupling with enough skill. They're perfect. I want one and i don't even have a layout xD
Yeah, you can simulate kicking the cars!
@@0v3rr1d3 imagine, how the hell did you do that? Oh do your Hornbys not do that? XD
Dapol, now featuring realistic risky yard maneuvering!
@@0v3rr1d3 with realistic derailment weights sure to really break into those foamboard scenery buildings! Really collapse your embankments! Magnificent.
Only with this fantastic product can you create such realistic train wrecks on your own layout! Thanks, Dapol!
Where can i buy Britsh Railway's old wagons?
Hi Sam does your Hornby Railroad TTS sound A1 Tornado work on DC because mine doesn't work on DC and I have no way of testing the loco on DCC. Great video Sam.
No they don't work unfortunately - all the TTS locos are DCC only, though you can make them work on DC by removing the decoder and fitting a blanking plate in stead!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Ok. Thank you. I was a bit worried when it wouldn't run on DC. Shame for the price they couldn't do what Bachmann do where they work on DC and some even have working sounds.
I have 11 Hornby Yeoman PTAs which I run behind my 59 and 66, I got them with the 59 for £240
Ahh fantastic - can't really go wrong at that price! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Super looking. Let’s hope that they make it into n gauge, would be great, but not at the price range. Great review Sam.
looks they be made in N Gauge. Outer & inner at £34 so probably not tail light.
buckeye couplings they are called .
Good models good video as always
Here's a video experiment idea: How many of my models have a model scale weight?
Locos and rolling stock closest to its weight in model form compared to actual wagon / loco
I guess as weight is a scale cubed function the weight of the OO wagon would have to be 1/76.2^3 = 2.26E-6 x actual weight. So JHA 102 tonne aggregate hopper wagon should weigh 0.23 kg.
Awesome video today Sam beautiful wagons I really wanna get some
Kadee does make couplers that are nem compatible! My Trix/Marklin Big Boy has nem pockets and uses the Kadee couplers in them from factory. You’ll have to check out their website and see if there’s one that is the correct height for a conversion wagon.
Can you review the Bachmann skarloey
Bachmann has made EZ-mate couplers that fit into Nem pockets if you hadn't known. I have a few that I use on a british steam locomotive so I can use it to pull american coaches and double-head with an American locomotive. They are still available online.
whats the grey thing in the background @ 21:46 , on the edge of the hatch?
I agree with your rating
Got to give a shoutout to the old Lima 59 hauling over half a kilo of rolling stock. :)
Haha yeah! Reckon it could do a fair few more too!!
Wow great review. The combination of the wagons with that loco looks very good too. Thanks for the video.
They are so heavy that Hornbys class 59 cannot pull them. However I am sure that Dapols new 59 can!!!!!!. But this has been delayed so many times.
Hi Sam, Nice review , good looking running looks good, but to big for my layout , All the best Brian 😃
Thanks a lot Brian, haha that's understandable!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
These are fantastic wagons. I have a rake of 6 currently to run behind a Hornby yeoman class 59 which has been fitted with sound and lights. Hopefully will extend it further in the future. Great vid as usual 👍
They really are aren't they - a decent rake would look amazing with those class 59s! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Those are some very cool wagons. I wonder if other owners are able to build bigger rakes without overloading their locos, what with the metal bearings and all. Real life Class 59s can pull some huge rakes of JHAs, more than what's feasible on most model railways!
The uncoupling shouldn't be happening without a magnet under or between the rails, though. Perhaps that's a consequence of using Kadee clones instead of the genuine article? I can sometimes get my Kadee-equipped rolling stock to automatically uncouple without a magnet, but it takes a lot of effort.
Oh just seen the pics on the hattons site, and as you know by now the end hoppers have buffers. Wow does adding two buffers to a wagon really cost ten quid more? Errm ok so perhaps adding the workings for the tail light adds to the cost, and all the diecast on them as well.
Seems like the Class 59 was anxious to get into shot!
Trust in Lima, Sam. They do what they are supposed to do, even after all these years.
haha that's certainly true!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
What a shame that the weight is so excessive, it would be completely impossible to run a realistic rake, which would be 20+. They look incredible though, but just not too practical
It would certainly be an awful lot of work to haul 20 of these for sure - impractical is definitely the word!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bet you if Sam put the money into it, he could get an Athearn locomotive to pull said short lil' train. The weight of those things are the same as MOST rolling stock exceeding 50ft in length, and/or are articulated. Keep in mind, that there are some engines that alone can pull 50 cars/wagons up a 1.2% grade on a layout by them selves.
I wouldn't be surprised if the low friction with the better bearings and wheels will negate the high weight at least a fair bit. Sure on a incline a loco will struggle more. but on flat ground weight is not important. friction in the wagons and traction on the locomotive is what matters.
These hoppers clearly have pretty low resistance as they roll freely.
So unless you have a lot of inclines a long rake would not be a problem.