Sabarimala and the issues surrounding the temple entry for women
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- What is the Sabarimala issue? Is it about menstruating women being impure? Or is it about religious faith? Can rationality be the yardstick when we judge religious beliefs? I discuss this and many other issues with Padma Pillai from the campaign Ready to Wait.
Follow Padma:
Twitter: @lotophagus
------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to the podcasts on:
SoundCloud: / kushal-mehra-99891819
Spotify: open.spotify.c...
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple...
Stitcher: www.stitcher.c...
------------------------------------------------------------
Support The Cārvāka Podcast:
Become a Member on UA-cam: / the cārvāka podcast
Become a Member on Patreon: / carvaka
UPI: kushalmehra@icici
To buy The Carvaka Podcast Exclusive Merch please visit: kushalmehra.com...
------------------------------------------------------------
Follow Kushal:
Twitter: ku...
Facebook: / kushalmehraofficial
Instagram: www.instagram....
Koo: www.kooapp.com...
Inquiries: kushalmehra.com/
Feedback: kushalmehra81@gmail.com
Very Insight full discussion. Padma is crystal clear in her argument and her stand. I support her 100%. Hindus are too busy raising their families. Padma is provoking a thought in me, I should stand-up for hindu's. I'm sure every hindu feels the same.
When Urban Naxals got charge sheet by MH police back in October, lefty's are waiting for sabarimala to open to create havoc in their last bastion.They think kerala is their Turf. All hindu's has to unite for one final strong push to drown the leftys into Indian Ocean. Hindu's stakes are high, if we let these lefty's rule for another 5yrs, parasurama effort of creating kerala will be in vain. Already church owns 80% of Kerala open land.
New parasuram will come and destroy these Lefty's and Dravida kazhaga scoundrels soon. Let's pray for it intensely. It is all in the hands of Hindus to unit to vote for somebody who can save us and our culture along with peace to establish Sanadhana Dharma.
Go ahead madam all devotees are with you
Swami Sharanam
Very clear discussion which will dispel the doubts of many millennial young Hindus
The English Channel are all biased towards the feminist activist
The only channel that bring facts is Janam TV the fastest growing Malayalam channel
Padmaji my Pranams to you for the noble work
Swami Sharanam
VERY NICELY EXPLAINED!
I have seen & met CHRISTIANS & MUSLIM women who have told me that they do not read their Bible, Quran, go to the Church during their periods. Hindus do it by choice. Why is it wrong to give the women a few orders
Bhad mein jaye (let them go to hell) muslim and christian women!! Please don't talk about this period thing in relation with sabrimala. Its not about discrimination against menstruating women within Dharmic fold. Do you know about Kamakhya temple (very important sakti pitha) in Assam-its a temple dedicated to menstruating Goddess. If hinduism mistreat women just because of their period why the fuck they dedicated a temple to this concept. Its like islam forbid eating pig but allow muslim to make a mazar in its name to worship it. Idiotic!! ignorance!
If people disagree with the ethics of the temple the solution is simple, Don’t Go! Go to a different one, it makes no difference we’re Hindus. Padmaji is truly excellent. Thank you Padmaji. And isn’t Kushalji just luvley? We luv him!
Experiential is the word
‘When there is no single goal there is no essential practice’ Wah!
Homeopathy is irrational but that not mean it hasn’t affected the lives of millions of peoples in positive ways.
Why not respect the law? Why not ask the MUSLIMS & THE CHRISTIANS TO RESPECT THE LAW? Is the law ONLY FOR THE HINDUS? because ONLY HINDUS are native to India, islam & christianity are FOREIGNERS HERE
Brilliant conversation. Very engaging.
Excellent interview. Touched on all the key questions. Padma explained it all so well.
Great job done Padma Chechi...most of the time you represent Hindu community in media...
Stay blessed
Excellent clarification from Padma!! My salutes and respect for you!! You were not allowed to explain. TV debates mostly end up in NOISE!!
I am watching this as Indian from the US and Thank you as it is very educational. I am curious if these arguments were made in the courts while the case was going on, as it seems Hindus were not prepared for justification during the court hearing. And if law suits should be made against why catholic priests and pope are men, and why in the mosques men and women segregated, or islamic polygamy can be the other way.
Thanx Kushal Mehra for presentinh yrself with trimmed beard n now u look somewhat handsome n presentable !
great job. Padma has great clarity
@13:10 It's neither impurity nor pollution but imbalance. Shuddhi harmonises the spiritual elements.
Thank you both for clear explanation.
You were leading discussions very effectively.Very good.Keep it up.Swami Saranam
Wow...enlightning. well explained and no shouting too. Well done !!
Good session. You must represent in channel discussions
The intro was awesome. Good take on Diwali and new year
The problem with this discussion is you are measuring Hinduism with abrahamic religions like you have only Celsius scale and trying to measure cryogenic or on the other extreme temperatures on the sun with the instrumentation available to you Hinduism says
APAVITRAH PAVITROVA
SARVAA VASTHAM GATHO PIVA
YASMARETH PUNDARIKAXAM
SABAHYA ABHYANTARA SUCHIHIic
PUNDARIKAXA PUNDARIKAXA PUNDARIKAXANAMAH,
so where is the question of purity or impurity in physical sense is coming here. The mental impurity is individualustic as one believes to himself. A profound thought in sanatana dharma. Hinduism is a later coined word to equate it as a religion when it came in contact with Abrahamic religions. I am in US and when I tell temperatures in Fahrenheit my friends in India can't understand.
Padma great talk
Great discussion
What is Naishtika brahamachari ? what is Yoga nidra ?
Yogis went to caves to avoid all disruptions that affect their deep meditation, right ? sound, light, smell, touch, opposite sex all are avoided, right ? remember Vasista caves. See thousands of MUNIYARAs in kerala where maharshis mediatated.. Can they meditate amidst a crowd ? All disruption must be avoided . TO OVERCOME ALL PHYSICAL SENSES.....To attain the deepest state of meditation.
Why is Valmiki went deep meditation but didn't realize termites growing over him. because he overcame physical senses.
Lord ayyappa went to deep jungle for what ?
Sabarimala is prescription for men..
Padma Chechi pranamam
the clear message is a man is divine, he can rise to the level of GOD. 41 days penance can bring an ordinary man a bliss , never experienced before. a man surrenders fully to ayyappa , and a fertile women in the vicinity can disturb an ordinary male devotee .as a decency , a women is away from his vicinity . when we apply equal rights . this is a mission impossible , and this shrine in dock .it is the women devotee who send their son,brother, husband , with respect & devotion. with ready to wait slogan.
sanjay ram no there is no theory that only man is divine , there are women deity’s and saints like akkamahadevi, Meera etc etc , so it not that , here it is such that Ayyappa Swami is a Naisthika brahmachari, and the temple is developed with a male monastery culture where men who have their weakness with desires are helped to stay away and practice rituals that can keep him away from worldly desires to attain something more profound. That is the reason women kept away from this temple rightly . Then there here are temples here in south where men are not allowed at all , also the priest is a lady .It does not mean only women are divine and men will pollute them . As a women I don’t see both these methods as discriminatory nor to women nor men.
i meant manushyan{ male/ female)
sanjay ram oh ok.
women,is mother,sister, , wife ,she got bigger role than a men in life during her fertile time and in her menopause is amma. the goddess to all around her . that is the right time to visit shabarimala.just my view.
sanjay ram women is a mother , wife sister and all of this by choice not by force . In sanathan dharma a women ‘s fertility is never the reason for her inprisonment ( I mean in spiritual path) , a women can always choose the path of bramacharini, she is never denied her path to divinity. Let’s not confuse this with the Sabarimala traditions . Here there is a different reason for not allowing pre- menopausal women. It is very high tantric ritualistic temple , with very high energies probably not suited for younger women, also there are many more reasons let’s not get into it here.Abd it’s not like men who go to Sabarimala benefits alone , as a wife I take part in rituals before the departure of my husband to Sabarimala, I am very much part of his pilgrimage seva even though I am not physically with him while on his journey to the temple.
the word is contamination/ kudos
Women are NOT barred from temples or even temples dedicated to Ayyappa.... Sabarimala happens to be the ONLY temple that has restrictions on women of childbearing age.. BECAUSE of myths and beliefs related to the deity at that temple alone!!! Also there is no requirement or religious dictact that enjoins anyone should go to that temple. If you believe, you go. If you don't, don't go.
Well said Padmaji
I accept all your arguments except your understanding of Advaitha, Padma
Swami Sharanam
Why did Buddha leave his family. Do u critize his family or Buddha?
എത്ര വിദ്യാഭ്യാസമുണ്ടായിട്ടെന്ത് കാര്യം.... ചാണകക്കുഴിയിൽ വീണാൽ പോയില്ലേ കാര്യം. ..
കഷ്ടം....
ആർത്തവം.... അശുദ്ധം... നൈഷ്ഠിക ബ്രഹ്മചാര്യം...
ആധുനിക ലോകത്ത് ജീവിക്കുന്ന പ്രാകൃത മനുഷ്യർ. കേരളത്തിലെ വിദ്യാസമ്പന്നരായ ചില അന്ധവിശ്വാസികൾ...
unnitp30 any waste out Ur body is ashudham only, do u store urine in fridge..
But menstruation has nothing to do with shabarimala.
@@beenapp1009
ഞാൻ കമന്റിൽ പറഞ്ഞ തരത്തിലുള്ള ആൾക്കാരിലുള്ള ഒരാൾ താങ്കൾ ആണെന്ന് മനസ്സിലായി.
'മൂത്രം ഫ്രിഡ്ജിൽ സൂക്ഷിക്കാറുണ്ടോ'
ഭയങ്കര ചോദ്യം തന്നെ. കഷ്ടം.
unnitp30 people like you and the so called liberals have done more damage to women.
Wen a girl attains Puberty it was celebrated..they very same liberals made fun of that also.
Tody the same people are talking abt taboo, impure, etc etc.
Common man has no time for all this ...
@satheesan krishnan
പോത്തിനോട് വേദമോതിയിട്ട് കാര്യമില്ല. ചാണക സംഘികളുടെ കാര്യത്തിൽ വളരെ ശരിയാണ്.
All gods are perceptions of divine .. personified as deities in temples. It is not a prayer hall.. mind it. Meaning of temple and deity is fulfilled as per the customs set for the temple. Every temple is built for that purpose. Especially in Kerala which many North indians may not understand. Kerala temples are very different.. there is purpose.. mind it. Visit the kerala temples and experience it yourself.
In Sabarimala, it is the Sadhana of 41 days vrat to fulfil. It is a prescription for men. There are many temples and rituals prescribed for woman too.. Once you start vrat, wear a MALA, wear black dress for self awareness of vrat and he becomes SWAMI. Should lead satvika life till 41 days. Only satvik food ( no drink,smoke, non-veg, too much spicy foods all avoided). He must talk in mean language. Dont wear chappals. And stay away from woman. Men dont sleep with wife during vrat. This is 41 days vrat Re-sets life of men and they come back with peace of mind. All bad habits are re-set.
Now, why only YOUNG woman should not go there.... It is a prescription for men only.. simple. When husband and wife go together, doesn't have the meaning of vrat. Thats the prescription. There are lot many other temples where there is no such restriction.
It is only a prescription, sky wont fall down if woman go there....
Why some woman want to disrupt the temple tradition and atmosphere.. leave it alone please.
hi padama ma'am swami saranam
കുല സ്ത്രീ മഹാത്മ്യം
Explain to well
You should call SINU JOSEPH TO DISCUSS ON THIS ISSUE
Stop keep saying you are an atheist . you are not ..lol
just wearing the gadgets of an astronaut may not land us in the moon.
#readytowait for #sabarimala.
There is certainly nothing wrong in saying "readytowait". That is always the woman's prerogative. However, it shouldn't be touted as a virtue, either. It isn't...it's just playing it safe and conformist.
Voting rights is a good analogy to think of "ready to wait" and where you fit in the picture.
Until recently, women all over the world were not allowed to vote. The right to vote was not handed to women on a platter, either. It certainly wasn't given because they waited for it!
No. What happened was that handfuls of women, in country after country, FOUGHT for the right to vote. There were always the Padmas who said, "Why fight for this stupid right? Tradition is tradition, let it be. We have never been allowed to vote, so why start now? We don't need it. We're ready to wait".
Cut to today, and descendants of both the waiters and the suffragettes have the right to vote. No woman cribs about it because equal opportunity is never a bad thing. The scales of tradition need to fall from the eyes to appreciate that.
Being on the frontlines of a struggle isn't for everyone. It is only given to a select few who feel the pangs more acutely than others, to visionaries who see generations into the future. Most people are by default Padmas, and there is no shame in that. Thankfully, Padma's daughter, or her granddaughter, will be able to enter any temple whenever she wishes. Thankfully, no one will remember Padma. Period.
Your analogy of *Fight for voting rights* does not fit in the Sabarimala #Readytowait . It is like comparing apples with jackfruit.
Firstly, there is NO DISCRIMINATION against women in Sabarimala case, which Padma has very clearly explained. So, there is nothing to fight for.
Secondly, the persecution of women, considering them as inferior or even equivalent to objects that can be traded is NOT Bharatheeya culture. You can never get a single example in the history whether civilizational, cultural, political that in Indic culture women were inferior and had no rights whatsoever.
Coming back to your analogy , it has relevance to European countries where they enacted *suffrage* (right to vote in political elections) in the interwar era; Canada (1917), Britain (1918 for women above 30 & 1928 for above 21), Germany, Poland in 1918,, Austria, Netherlands in 1919, US in 1920. The earliest was Finland in 1906.
In Bharat, the Great Rajaraja Chola (985 CE - 1014 CE) had hus sister Kundhavai Nachiyaar helping him in political, religious and especially temple matters. Pls read book THE History of Cholas ( By Neelakanta Shastri). There were village and urban planning committee which were presided by women who were elected.
There are many such examples in recorded history.
My suggestion to you dear friend:
1. Please do not get swayed by some ideology that doesn't suit the situation.
2. It's always good to check the facts, data, historical evidences etc ., So that there is no bias or wrong judgements.
3. Only similar situations should be compared, not otherwise.
4. A dispassionate listening to the views of others will always do good.
@@shanthidurgapai674 very well said ma'am
U r a waste
See you clearly don't understand the depth of the situation . This case is different from any other cases of discrimination of the past . But the problem is not your lack of understanding but you guys have pledged to not give the other side a chance . Perhaps , for you rascals it is a matter of fun or an opportunity to show intellectualism or activism and in the process deeply hurting the sentiments of kerela hindus both men and women . If i am not wrong few days ago situation was very bad there with clashes between police and protesters and while all this is happening so called intellectual activists who have lit this fire are smiling from a safe distance or coming and commenting on the internet . Seriously , there are no words to describe these bastards .
@@bratinranjanroy3493 exactly
What issue people of Kerela already exposed all drama and script by facist out completely get outhouse
Swami Sharanam : Firstly the claim on, who is the Custodian of the Temple is still under debate. There is a Tribal Community called the MALA ARAYA Community, which claims that the 18 Steps of the Temple signify the 18 Hills of the Dense Forrest that encompasses the Shabarimala Shrine Temple. The name of the Last Priest is inscribed on the plaque and has been buried and plastered onto the steps leading to the Idol of Lord Aiyappa.
Once the flow of traffic & money pouring into the Temple got noticed by the Brahmin community of Kerala, the shrine was taken over and the Tribals were intimidated & chased out from the Temple. Finally turned into a Hindu Shrine, by invoking Hindu references to it. Even to this day, the Tribals are given a customary place of representation, but no voice in the administration. The Man from the Mala Araya Community, leading the campaign to regain control of the Shabarimala Temple is Mr.P.K.Sajeev - You can google it to find more details of him and his campaign. He claims that the Temple used to allow women to enter, but such freedom was removed by the Patriarchal Brahmins of Kerala and restricted MENSURATING WOMEN from Entering the Temple.
Actually speaking the Young Women in Kerala don’t want to go to the Temple, carrying a head load of Coconut and Rice in a Piece of Cloth as offerings to the Lord Aiyappa. There are several reasons behind their refusal to go to the Hill Shrine viz. Obesity, Laziness, prestige, Beauty Cautiousness, No Western Style Toilet facilities. Most of the men who walk up the Hill Shrine (5 kms Hill trekking) are bearded men from neighbouring States of Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka etc. These bare chested bearded, Untidy men, bring with them their culture of Curiosity towards Women and especially Fairer Women, much less to talk about the amount of filth and garbage they leave behind their path. You can see Pigs and Stray Dogs just loitering around feeding on all the waste left behind by these men.
Kerala is the HIGHST TAX PAYING REGIONAL STATE OF India to the Central Govt. Though the Kerala has a Communist Govt, but it is a Democratically Elected Govt. and is far more Democratic and Secular than the MOBOCRACY of Rest of India. And this is something that the Far-Right Central Govt. of India is trying to dislodge and turn Kerala into something like the Northern States wherein, it is the Mob that rules the Street and people.
Sadly no Indian is bothered about the basic needs in their day to day lives ie. Clean Drinking water, Schools, House, employment etc. Just a slight string on the religion is sufficient for them to forget and leave behind everything and fight amongst each other
Waiting for Godot.
Who is this crook guy? Look and behave like......
സ്വാമി ശരണം
thanks പത്മ പിള്ള മാഡം
Save ശബരിമല
Usually a Custom/Tradition/Practise/ritual entails that a person or group of persons be required to do some act/kriya/activity. Barring women from entering a place of worship cannot be put in the catergory of a tradition. It is purely a Belief System; and a flawed one at that.
If you don't like the faith, leave , rather than messing with it's worship traditions which incidentally are specific to each temple.
@Malini salim babu True indeed. But the totality of hereditary social hierarchy was responsible, not temple tradition as such. Even kings and the highest spiritual authorities had to follow the norms and taboos. Now , the following requires an unprejudiced, non ideological mind to ponder. Decades back, I had put this up before a conservative authority of agama. His reply was that there was certainly injustice in the social system . But temple entry rules by themselves were based only on the dictates of sanctity and decorum. These were essentially private temples , where a social class had enshrined a living deity of their choice, for worshipping the deity with the highest degree of sanctity. One section of the people had been Buddhists for centuries, and had their own lifestyle and worship norms. Others had their own shrines and deities . It was only in the late 19 th Century that these sections became generally educated and refined for desiring integration. So it was the overall society that was oppressive. " But you are observing it from the opposite end , with prejudice ". Nowadays, Christian friends accept that social segregation is far greater in Kerala Churches , albeit in thinly disguised forms.
@Malini salim babu I know that for many centuries up to 1820, the temple belonged to the Pandalam kings who were Kshatriyas. Although the temple of Dharma Shastha, a Saivaite deity - all eight forms of Shastha , per Tamizh Sangam classics dating back to the Third Century CE, were Shaivite - apparently was extant for several centuries before an adopted child of the family Ayyappan, legendarily merged in the deity. It doesn't appear logical that
a) the Pandalam royals would entrust a temple to which they had an emotional connection, to the Malayarayas. The latter had rights to light the Makaravilakku;
b) or if that were the case, they would retain rights over the temple after they had ceded the kingdom itself to Travancore in 1820;
c) that the Travancore kings who were extremely solicitous to the tribes within their domain, an astute policy , would usurp the worship management from the hill tribe
I am of an open mind, and am willing to support the Malayarayas, if there is historical evidence to support their ownership claim to the temple. Please do not repeat Marxist canards which they have currently organised in order to bulldoze the Hindu faith.
@Malini salim babu You know the facts. Only the ignorant can be educated, not the predisposed. Only the foolish can be corrected, not the malicious. By the way, why where there tens of thousands of dark - veiled women , and tens of thousands of Jacobite women too, protesting against a long extinct Brahmanical Patriarchy and a living Sabarimala tradition ? The day I become convinced that you no longer frame a false narrative in order to implement an agenda of destroying Hinduism, that you treat all faiths uniformly and no longer use minoritarian armies to subjugate the disaggregated dharmik Hindus, that day I will develop fraternal feelings for you all.
@Malini salim babu I find it strange that you want change in all religions. Then first place to start is get the women out of burkas....and women to become equal in church administration. What @Babu says..
എന്തൊരു തള്ളയാണ്.. കെട്ടിയോന് അവാർഡ് കൊടുക്കണം.
എന്താണ് ബിബി സെബാസ്റ്റ്യൻ, ബിഷപ് ബ്രോങ്കോ കുഴപ്പൂവുമില്ല അല്ലെ
Biby sondham palli nanakeettu va..... pinney samsarikka
hindu talibans ... no point in arguing with these people fight them ...that is the only way
A commie taleban is ruling kerala!
What is taliban can you pls make it clear ? For all I know all were forced to follow Islam else slayed,well but here all they are saying is that Ayyappan is not compulsory, all who don’t believe in him are free to take up another methodology . There will not be persecuted for leaving Ayyappan culture , it your choice to accept or not . Ayyappan is not compulsory for all Hindus , he is only a deity for his devotees and no where in Hindu scriptures says that Ayyappan is the only way to Moksha , there are always other path , choose any one that suits you or you are even free to be charvaka nobody is whipping you or behead you for that .Like we let atheist & other believers to follow their way pls let the Ayyappan devotees to follow their traditions . Don’t force yourself on us 🙏.
taliban want to purify religious practices they want to strictly follow what is in the text .. that is what these hindus are also saying .. killing and oppression comes next ... conformity to text comes first ..
I am a devotee i have gone there several times and few times through erumale 60 km trek but i dont think there is any problem in women entering there. and the prohibition is merely based on some cooked up stories. then these people say u cant be reckoned as devotee . when some one take such an adamant stand there is no other way but to fight it ..my ayyappa has no problem with women if u people are not ok u choose some other method for moksha
anilkumar4017 now how do you decide what is cooked up story and what is not? Some may say that Ayyappan itself is a cooked up story , now what part of Ayyappan story do you believe in, you cannot accept a part of the tradition and claim the other part is cooked up story .Becos all the traditions followed by Ayyappan devotees etc are part of the same tradition that claim that Ayyappan has vowed Naisthika bramacharya, but you should also understand that it’s not just about the deity but the place of Sabarimala is itself created as a place of monastery culture for men to attain higher vibrations renouncing worldly desires and needs , not all may achieve what Ayyappan himself could but they are trying to step in his footpath , that’s the reason that all men who have taken the 41 day penance is called Swami , its like a school of teaching , Ayyappan showed that he followed to Moksha . Now this method may not be more suited for women , it does not mean they have no other methodology or school of spirituality to raise to divinity. Now in some Shakti temples men are not allowed , why cos it is not compulsory that men can only attain spirituality through these temples . You cannot compare deity’s with God in Abrahmic faith , where their scriptures makes it compulsory for all to adhere to only the rule of the book or a particular god to attain heaven , else you are doomed , well then you can say women are Denied the right to heaven, if they are not allowed to practice the book.Here you have different paths & deity’s and methods to attain the same truth .Anyway Brahman is genderless, formless , attributeless ( Nirguna ). Now Ayyappan ‘a methodology of 41 day penance , bathing in the pampa river , might be too much for a menstruating women , imagine if a women menstruated in her way up how is she going to manage this condition without proper hygiene & sanity available, now being a environmental sensitive forest region can this place handle lakhs of women women in such conditions , I strictly believe people trekking to this forest region should be sanitised for carrying plastics and materials that can harm the life in the forest , what about animals that are sensitive to human blood . Also let the tenor be many construction & even vehicals allowed to such areas , let the people trek like in the past . Else it is a disaster in waiting.
@@anilkumar4017 you have just exposed your total ignorance on the Hindu Diety Ayyappa.. go update yourself. There is lot of material on the internet itself, in case you are too lazy to read books yourself, so as to begin to see some light.
Btw we are less concerned what taleban does to their own ppl, but what they do to other religions and cultures is what is problematic. Similarly, here what these rowdy commies-taleban do to hindu dieties is what is topic is.
onnu pooo Ammachi
Kula sthreeyo....
Aramayorthayirikkum
Shabrimala is adivasi property
Who is ummer karappan, are u adivasi?