Why I Think Lilith Clawthorne Is A Misunderstood Character (The Owl House Video Essay)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 бер 2022
- Lilith Clawthorne, a character from Disney's "The Owl House," has quite the reputation of being the most hated character of the series, at least during the shows first season of its run. But, does she truly deserve all the hate?
This video takes a deep dive into who exactly Lilith is. Is she a boring antagonist that didn't get a full redemption? Or is she someone that was simply blinded by dreams and trauma that caused her to turn out this way?
Credits For Music Used In Video:
Owl House OST By: Tj Hill
Fan Version of Owl House OST By Karu: / k%c4%81ruofficial
God Of War OST by Bear McCreary: / bearmccreary
Memories Of Mother (Piano Version) performed by MusicMike512: / musicmike512
Devil May Cry 4 Shall Never Surrender (Piano Version) Performed by FrostmorEX Favorite Videos and Songs: / @frostmorex
Bury The Light (Piano Version) Performed by Jason Lyle Black: / jasonlyleblack - Ігри
I don't really mind that Lilith went from an antagonist to an ally. She always had good intentions after cursing eda, so it isn't too hard to believe that she could turn good.
Lilith in season 1 was in the same place as Eda and Lilith's mother: she's so determined to cure Eda, she fails to notice that she's hurting Eda.
Different situation but the same concept
I’ll be honest, I was of two minds about Lilith at the end of Agony of a Witch. One part of me was like “Oh no she didn’t!”, but another proclaimed “I watched enough cartoons to know she’ll get redeemed.” And wouldn’t you know it? I was right. I was already interested in her because of her dynamic with Eda, but Season 2 made me love Lilith even more.
That generally seems to be the case these days. A lot more people have grown to like her due to her being like her old, fun self in season 2 rather than season 1, which I can respect. But, I just wanted to show that there still is a lot of depth to her character and can still be interesting for the show, at least, to the few of us that liked her since day 1.
@@MidgardMadness After finally watching season one, I much prefer season one Lilith than season two Lilith of what I have been hearing. I still like her and find her relatable, but the parts I related to were inadequacy, guilt and a caring older sibling. After learning about how the Emperor’s Coven runs, I felt like there was missed opportunity with Lilith. I think she can be a fascinating character. If the writing sometimes didn’t bog down her character.
I especially like her sibling bond with Eda and how much she cares for her which makes her interesting. Her character is about the art of taking responsibility. The only _problem_ I did have was the reveal of splitting spell, which wasn’t brought up in any of the prior interactions and we’re made to believe she’s been looking for a cure for thirty years…Then again it’s a 2020 show that is coming off the tail 2010s where bad guys get redeemed. I would have liked her to be handled with more nuance but I’m used to this at this point.
Lilith hater
In my opinion, Lilith taking on Eda's curse is enough to prove she's genuinely trying to redeem herself. I love cool aunt Lilith
Her haters wouldn't have been satisfied if Lilith was whipped like a slave, electrocuted or burned to death
As a socially awkward older sister with a gifted charming younger sister I can deeply relate to her feelings because it really hurts to have a sister that’s just generally better while wanting to fit in at the same time
Same! I’m the same age as my sister but she’s so successful and I feel like no matter how hard I try I can’t beat her; Lilith making peace with that meant so much to me!
The parallel between the Clawthorne and Wittebane siblings, as well as Belos' role in it, goes underappreciated imo.
In both situations, we have one sibling hurt the other in order to reign them back into society's expectations, as represented by an alien loved one. Eda became a wild witch and trained Luz while Caleb came to love magic and married a witch. Both Lilith and Philip convinced themselves that what they were doing would help their sibling (bringing Eda to the emperor and Philip attempting to kill Caleb's wife). Belos orchestrates this somewhat by convincing Lilith that he could heal Eda.
However, the difference between them lies in their ability to compromise their own desires upon learning the extent to which they hurt their sibling. Lilith saw Eda cursed and about to be petrified. So, she accepted Luz and abandoned the emperor's coven to save Eda. Meanwhile, Philip fought both Evelyn and Caleb because he could not accept Evelyn or witches and, ultimately, Philip murdered Caleb. And continued to murder grimwalker clones of Caleb because he would not compromise and see Caleb's side of things.
It’s kind of funny that throughout season 1 Lilith would lecture Eda about not taking things seriously and goofing off, but as we got further into season 2, Lilith became the goofier character while Eda became much more serious (both still have their moments on each side, but the balance has definitely tilted). Just something interesting I noticed
I find it very interesting that during the second season, Lilith is wearing a t-shirt that shows an empty battery - having lost her magic, and needing to learn glyphs from Luz.. I think I had noticed it before, but not put all of the pieces together of "this is a witch without power."
to quote one of my favorite *motivated* lads in gaming, you could say she needs... "more power" ;)
SHE SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN GIVEN GLYPHS LESSONS AN SHOULD HAVE STAYED MAGICLESS. SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT LILITH. COME CRAWLING BACK AFTER 40 years of struggle. then will talk.
Something I haven't seen anyone mention is that there wasn't just one spot for the emperors coven. We get to see the list of the scout and it's completely empty. Just like a cult the emperors coven severs your support system so they can better control you, so the "one spot only" was meant just to create conflict between eda and lilith to leave them vulnerable
Lilith and eda were being played from the start
Lilith is one of my favorite characters in the show. Her friendship with HOOTY gives me life!!! I just feel like she was redeemed far too fast. She was basically redeemed in the span of five minutes in the season one finale or at least that’s what it feels like to me
I didn’t really have take issue with it personally because throughout most of Season 1, we see that deep down, Lilith wasn’t completely heartless and still loved Eda despite them being on opposing sides.
It’d only be “fast” if Lilith showed zero redeeming qualities throughout most of Season 1 but then suddenly became good at the end of the season finale.
@@theluigifan1 Hey I get where you’re coming from and I agree in season 1 all Lilith really wanted to do was help her sister but everyone forgave her far too quickly in my opinion
@@barelyhere7200 I think you need to remember that there’s a disparage in the passage of time between the show itself and we, the audience. Sometimes, development happens offscreen. Also in Eda’s eyes, Lilith was already forgiven when she saved her, protected Owlbert and finally shared the curse with her. Luz, while having every right to still hate Lilith, is a naturally forgiving person so she doesn’t hold grudges unless she has a very good reason. And by that point, she saw Lilith was at least trying to make up for what she had done so she too was willing to give her the leg room to repent.
Not every redemption arc requires the other parties to be closed off and mean about it. It only breeds more toxicity, which was the last thing Luz’s found family needed at that point in time.
Lilith’s greatest mistake was done because she couldn’t see the future. She had no way of knowing that the curse she put on her sister would intensify with time, nor could she predict Eda forfeiting the duel.
Lilith's arc before she became redeemed was similar to that line from the Dark knight u either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain and she definitely becomes a villain but has the sense to pull back before it's to late and started down the path of redemption.
Funnily enough, it seems like Lilith's friendship with Hooty helped people warm up to the both of them. When the show first stated, people just looked at Hooty as the dumb annoying comic relief, probably because the show itself treated him like that, giving him nothing to do but say and do weird and creepy things, and having the other characters treat him like Meg Griffin. But when he actually became part of the group, people started to like his bizarre antics, because they saw his dedication to helping the Clawthornes.
i loved her friendship with hooty
I... actually didn't know people hated her... I loved her since the beginning.
Yeah, I loved her since the beginning to, but when I was looking at past Owl House media as the show was coming it out, specifically with Scharfrillas' video discussing it (that was the major inspiration for me wanting to make this), a lot of people just seemed to have a grudge towards her, so I just wanted to make this to show why some us might not
Me neither
Same, I thought she made an interesting antagonist -- especially on rewatching season 1 more times than I remember now -- because she wasn't really a villain. She just had her own agenda that (of course) was not what Eda (independent and free spirit that she is) wanted to do. She was much more affable than outright evil (like Terra Snapdragon).
One might say the first season Lily was so locked in with conformity (see Midgard's references to her thinking she had to have power and respect by joining a Coven and serving Belos), that she couldn't grow beyond it. And it wasn't until she lost it all (but gained a family) that she _could_ grow independently. And be buddies with Hootsifur. :D
@@sarasteege2265 I agree. Lilith is not a villain, she's an antagonist and a victim.
Wait people hate her!? i saw the good in her she just wanted to heal her sisters curse nothing else!!
Perhaps she quickly was redeemed because she hasn't treaded the serpent's path that much, but rather just stood there in an attempt to be accepted by others, instead of finding her own path to her own definition of greatness.
My only complaint about Lilith is that they never really addressed how she was so willing and eager to kill Luz in the finale and yet the two are chummy next time we see them
It is drastic change in their dynamic, but I do touch on that a bit in my belos video since he was the one that kinda inspired Lilith to use Luz as bait in the first place
@@MidgardMadness use as bait sure, that I can get behind. But using Luz as a meat shield against Eda's attacks and gleefully pushing to impale Luz on spikes to use up Eda's magic was a bit too far onto the evil side for me to not have some kind of making amends period between the two
Understandable
@@hydranoid2009 If I'm not mistaken Lilith herself says "this bubble was for your protection", I believe she only used Luz as a shield because she knew that Eda would deflect the attack, because if the magic took directly on Luz, she would take lilith directly too
I don’t think she was intending to kill Luz, she was just apathetic if she ended up dying. Because when she actually captures Eda, she doesn’t care about Luz anymore and doesn’t attempt to harm her whatsoever.
Still bad she put Luz’ life in danger of course, but it was more of a spur of the moment “I *need* to capture Eda” thing.
Was not expecting a comparison to the Sparda brothers in an Owl House video...but I'm amazed and delighted at how well the parallel fits.
Thank you! Initially thought it was a bit weird to put in there, but ultimately decided to go for it since 1. It's one of my favorite examples of what makes contrasts between rivals so interesting, 2. I just see a lot of Dante and Vergil in Eda and Lilith lol, and 3. They both had the same sort of philosophy behind them, 2 characters went through the same event together, but through their different outlooks, came out as 2 vastly different/opposite people, so I'm glad you found it interesting!
Don't forget eda devil Trigg errrrrr harpy form. I'm sure lily would've gotten her harpy form if we got more episodes too. Not to mention eda primary color scheme is red and lily's is blue & black LMAO
I agree with everything you said. I still don’t think Lilith’s full on forgiveness was deserved or realistic. (I personally would have had her stay in the coven either as a double agent or turn her into a cautionary tale) However, I think that is a minor issue compared to the amazing character she was especially in season 1.
I'm a biiiit late but either way, interesting video.
Unpopular opinion: I enjoyed Lilith way more in season one than in season two (and was surprised when I saw everyone hating on her SO so much). She was insanely misguided, tried doing good but kept failing. She also kept herself to insanely high standards (which touched me a bit ngl). These things aren't excuses, she still did many bad things that she should be help accountable for, but they do provide context and context is really important.
Now that's not to say I don't like her in season 2. Her friendship with hooty is truly amazing. She is less exciting now in my opinion, but she deserves to go study history in peace (I mean, not much peace going on at the moment, but you get me)
Lilith never killed her humanity, uh, witchanity? (idk what you'd call it here) , just locked it away.
That's actually a great way of putting it!
I've always like her character. From day one I knew she was gonna be my favorite, and low and behold my favorite is Hooty. (Jk it's obviously Lilith lmao-)
She's such a well written character. Her journey of finding self love and fixing her mistakes is something I relate to alot.
So glad I'm not the only one who has adored her the beginning.🙃
I have a potential theory for "The Owl House," could Luz (and humans in general) possibly be something of an amplifier for magic cast by witches? The reason I bring this up is because some of the most impressive feats (outside of Eda's) were performed with Luz either being directly involved or in close proximity to the spell being cast. Do you find this theory plausible or am I just finding something where there is nothing?
Lol I have a similar theory to that especially after hollow mind. Everyone is theorizing that Phillips brother married a clawthorne. And with eda being a powerful witch who has human ancestry, the theory would work well cause eda has commented many times that luz (a human) has really strong magic. (Like in the hootys moving hassle episode)
Interesting theory I kinda agree think mating between a witch and a human produces a stronger witch rather than a human being close to a witch that could just be because she’s the main character
That explains why Luz and Philip are so powerful (other than that they’re the main protagonist and main antagonist, and have the same power set). And the Clawthorne sisters are so powerful.
It’s most definitely Disney. They keep doing the “puts persons on line” and then gets a redemption arc. It’s horrible and I wish people could see that Lilith actually regrets cursing her sister so much. She never meant to hurt anybody :(
I used to hate Lillth Because she cursed eda and tried to kill Luz but during the second half of Season 2 I love this cool auntie I'm glad she got redeemed and joined the good side
Hello there :)
i just stumbled accross your video since I love The Owl House.
I mostly agree with everthing you bring up in the video about the decission Lilith made to join the emperor's coven by cursing Eda. But as you mentioned yourself in the beginning, it was based on Belos's saying, that one has bring sacrifices. As we all know Emperor Belos/Philipp Wittebane has very manipulative traits and his influence on young Lilith's mind, might have been quite strong. I would not put all the blame on her for the decission of cursing Eda. That is of course not an excuse for her actions, but I'd like to believe she is a little bit more innocent and misunderstood. For the mind of a child can be influenced easily. And personally think that Lilith still has a lot of humanity/compassion/care for Eda left, since she tries so desperately to help her. Yet blinded by ambition she pursues her dream. Also this does not excuse her actions shown in season 1. And I personally don't like that Lilith decided to cheat by cursing Eda (not only not considering what the consequences might be) and that she didn't ask her, if they could work out something together. If she would have mentioned that to Eda, Eda probably would have said that she's not interested in joining the emperor's coven anyway. But of course, without that we wouldn't have this convoluted story ^^
And in my opinion I think Lilith is a character with much depth and many different facettes.
I very much liked your video essay and thank you for shining a more posivite light on Lilith :)
Here's a video (you probably might have seen yourself) about Belos's influence on the Boiling Ilses: ua-cam.com/video/6fefF-zQYjE/v-deo.html
Thank You! I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it interesting. Lilith to me is just a character that seems to get a lot of hate that I personally believe she doesn't deserve, so I wanted to make this to show people why there are some of us that do genuinely like her. Also, I see what you did there with the Belos video, linking my own video, I can't believe I fell for that lol
Man this video deserves more, i think it really achieves the goal to explain how great and cool is Lilith, and make you love her even more if you already loved her anyway!
Really was the big inspiration for why I wanted to make this, it just felt wrong to me for her to have all the hate she did, so I just wanted to show why some people MIGHT like her before hand, so I'm glad you enjoyed it!
@ Midgard Madness You know something interesting Midgard? When we feel worthless, which Lillith obviously did based on how we see her mother treat her in season 2, we as human beings, and in this case Witches, like to associate ourselves with what society defines as great. Whether it be a certain religion, position of power, getting straight As, joining in on war efforts, or serving an authority figure, we want to feel like our life has a purpose. But what if that purpose isn't to do great things, but to live a great life? Lillith chose to ne looked at as great in her society, Eda chose to live the life she wanted to live. Purpose for Lillith was defined by the emporer. Purpose for Eda has become defined by what she can do to defy the expectations of her society and care for Luz and King as a mother figure. It's fortunate now that Lillith has become the Bad Girl Historian she's thrilled to be. If the end of season 2 didn't happen, I'm sure her life would have been much better being something she wanted to be.
I liked lilith even after young blood old souls. I felt bad for her.
obviously, there are tons of parallels between the inhabitants of the owl house and the emperor's coven (luz and eda vs hunter and belos) but i think one of the most interesting ones is the parallel of the clawthorne sisters and the wittebane brothers. even though we haven't seen much of the relationship between philip and caleb, i believe they had a very similar dynamic, philip wanting power over the witches and caleb wanting to join them. through lilith's character growth throughout s2 we get to see the way she regains eda'a trust and mends their relationship, directly opposing the way philip never tried to understand caleb's side to the story and subsequently murdered him. this could have easily ended up being the result of eda and lilith's disagreement, had they never spoke about the conflict, but instead they show the healthy way to repair the rift. i look forward to seeing how far this parallel grows in season 3
Tied with her sister? She can't even beat eda at her worst ;)
(s2b spoilers) havent seen the full video yet so idk if youre gonna talk about this here but i just wanna say that i LOVE the parallel of the clawthorne sisters and the wittebane brothers that seems to be implied. lilith was probably only ever chosen to become coven head because of the fact that belos recognized her from the events of elsewhere and elsewhen, but i also think it's really interesting how he probably felt reminded of the situation between him and his brother in the one between lilith and eda (keyword: reminded, NOT empathized lol), which could also play into why he decided that eda was going to be publicly petrified (because we know that he's actually been petrifying and killing many more witches behind the scenes for a long time now)
I love Lilith but I do think the criticism is fair because she’s introduced as insanely powerful but after that she turns into a joke
A joke?
@@dylansharp8471 yeah they make her ridiculously week with her getting beaten really easily
I mean, it does make sense though?
As said before: Lilith is (in terms of power) the weakest of the Clawthorne sisters and after taking on half of Edalynn's curse (that manifested and became more powerful over the years) she of course will become very weak. Eda had the time to learn her way around her disability, but Lilith has to deal with it in the snap of a finger.
For real. Lilith is my favourite character from this show, i loved her from the first time she appeared. And now, my love to her grows even more and more, like without limits. I watched the entire video, and i can agree to each of your words. It's really nice to know, that there are people out there, that also really like Lilith, and can appreciate her
Finally some justice for Lilith
Her character has always meant a lot to me, I naturally gravitated to her from her first appearance and when I found out about all the hate she got I was confused because to me she was clearly someone who wanted to do good and wanted to make amends but was manipulated and didn’t go about it the right way. I also always saw myself in her and could relate to her which made sympathizing with her much easier. It was hard joining the fandom when everyone hated her so I just gravitated to the few artists and creators I found that also shared my love of her and as time has gone on a lot of other have also started liking her which has been great to see
I'm a couple minutes in and this is phenomenal. A couple things I would recommend is
1. Maybe slow down a bit and try to pronounce some words more clearly
2. I don't know the full details of how you record your voice but maybe put your face a couple inches further from the microphone so it's not so "sharp to the ear"
3. Try to put more personality to your voice. I know that the way you did it is the way you intended it so I would recommend not allowing your voice to hit that low note where you can hear your voice vibrating a bit. (it made so much more sense in my head)
Other than those three things, this is fantastic and the point of view to this is excellent.
(Oh and sorry I'm 12 hours late 😋)
Thank you so much for the feedback, I really appreciate it, and I'm glad you enjoyed!
I'll definitely have to take those notes, my voice has always just been born deep and fast (big reason why I added subtitles to help people understand if they had a hard time with it), so it's hard to break that norm lol
Bro the extent of this video essay is insane!
Thank You! Kinda cringe for me to look back at this since it was when I was first learning how to make videos lol, but a majority of the stuff I brought up do still stand, so I'm glad you enjoyed it!
i didn't hate lilith just feel like there we're some lose threads they needed to tie like she nearly killed luz but you never see that mistrust other a then luz saying that its still hard to trust each other and king was very petty you would think he would have a probleem with lilith but nope never work thru that other then its alright not amazing but not bad either
I saw the title of this video and i was like "whaat?!!" There's people out there that don't like Lilith?" Because i at least liked her from the first day she showed up, that surprised me.
If you're wondering why, go watch Schafrillas' video on The Owl House S1, that was the big inspiration for why I wanted to make this.
@@MidgardMadness Thanks
an eye for an eye leave'z the whole world blinded
i really think lilith is the best character her seep feelings and kept emotions are bigger than her heart she always cries but in silence sometimes even her sister do not hear her inner pain here where hooty found a way to her heart so she could actually trust after so many breack downs and mistrust even though she seems to be a little bit broken but she learned to deal with it and accept this new life mistakes but never stop trying to fix them to make everything perfect was all what she once believed but now she just why not just let it be and let it go keep changing but why not stay the same that is true lilith
29:37
"I didn't get into The Owl House until it was a year old, so I was pretty late to the scene and the fandom."
Ayyyy me too!
I finally decided to watch it in August 2021 after a few months of two of my friends saying I should watch it; it was right when they were in the middle up releasing season 2A.
Little did I know how important it would become lol
So important that I've decided I want a flackjack tattoo like the Hexaide kids have as a reminder of how important this show became to me.
Wasn’t a big fan of Lilith in season 1 but I LOVE her in season 2
As soon as I watched the body switching episode, I knew that Lilith wasn’t a true antagonistic character , all she wanted in season 1 was to cure Eda and have them join the emperors coven ( which has been her dream since childhood) sure she went about it in a non helpful way but she was manipulated by belos, and I knew she was going to become an ally of them by the time the season ends which she did and she became a top 5 character for me , I love how she goes from scary powerful witch and leader of a whole ass army , to cool aunt Lilith bad girl historian
Great video. I never got way people disliked her so much. She’s a great character and her dynamic with her sister is one of my favorite parts of the show. I do think they kind of rushed her redemption but not on her part. I think that Eda and Luz were a tad too forgiving. Especially Eda considering how much the curse has harmed her physically, mentally and how it’s destroyed her relationships. But aside from that I love her, especially adorkable season 2 Lilith.
They seem to hate her for a few certain reasons.
Like @jamesverner9132 above.
You know, sometimes i think that someone who hated Eda a lot heard that Lilith was going to curse her with a curse that will take away her powers for a day but she didn't realize that the subject who hated Eda went faster than her to the night market hiding in that place to change that curse for the other one that the owl beast contained, making Lilith not suspect that subject and will naively take that curse
I am the only one who thinks that?
I really doubt that this will be all that seen, but as I was watching TOH season 2, especially the episode where Mrs. Clawthorne shows up, it really painted a clear picture to me that Lilith is a Glass Child (someone who has a sibling who has special needs, be it a disibility, drug addiction, or any other all-encompassing handicap). Now there is not much research on Glass Children out there (why study the 'normal' kid when the "special" one is right there), but the main idea is that Glass Children feel a great deal of pressure seeing their sib with special needs, that they become self-sufficient, and their needs get put to the side.
I won't go too much more into this since this is just a youtube comment, but Lilith being a Class Child really explains and fleshes out a great deal of her character's motivations.
I really can’t say how much I agree with you on this. Lilith is definitely one of my favorite characters of the show, and I her redemption was really well handled to me since she really deserves a second chance. I read a fanfic crossover with Kingdom Hearts, and the fact that it didn’t redeem Lilith for a pretty petty reason REALLY rubbed me the wrong way and kinda ruined the fic for me.
She’s shown that, even when her and Eda argue or on opposing sides, they still care about each other and want to make things right. And season two just made her even better!
I didn't really like Lilith in the beginning because of how cold she could be at times like in agony of a witch when she throws Lus of the bridge that seen made me grow a hate for Lilith and I thought her redemption was pretty rushed........But then again I started watching Owl house when yesterday's lie was the latest ep so. But I grew to like her character::)
Well, people was mad that what happen when the episode was out and in the next week, people doesn't thinking straight and assume what she done was inforgivable just because they was just mad, it was raw emotion. And when the next episode was released and we saw the reason of her action and Lilith tried to redeem herself, people think it wasn't enought to excuse her. That doesn"t help that it was an long hiatus after that, so they still debated that if it was sincere or fake for mouths.
So no wonder if Lilith is still polarised even today.
All I want to says that Lilith in season 2b cloths was very cute.
Exactly, I just wanted to make this video since I hear people just didn't like the writing behind her. Go watch Schafrillas' video on TOH S1 if you want to know what I mean (he was really the big inspiration for why I wanted to make this)
We can also add the fact Lilith doesn't apologize at Luz onscreen yet. And with that, people thinking that her threatening Luz at the end of season 1 was not a big deal and wasn't satisfied until it would appear onscreen.
Amen! Much Love on this Analysis .... : )
I really relate to Lilith, I’m a greyromantic asexual girl who has sisters, and has done things that deeply hurt our relationships. Lilith showed me that the worst things I’ve done can be mended, I can still have a relashinship with them. Lilith is also an overachieving nerd who was manipulated by an evil cult leader who was just naive and scared of failure and letting people down. Of course what she did to eda isn’t excusable, but it’s understandable. She thought it would only last a day, and she was guarded and distrusted her sister, she clearly believed her sister would not hesitate to beat her and steal her dream, and now she feels like the worst person ever. She has dedicated her life to fixing that mistake, even though she seems to have resentment towards the love her mother has for eda and the lack of attention she got from her mother.
As someone who came in after the first episode of the third season came out, I can understand why she was dislike despite not agreeing with it. Firstly, she talks down to a fanfavorite (Luz) and was ignoring her own sister's wishes of not joining the Emperor's Coven, which a lot of people probably latched onto and ignored the hints that she was more than she seemed. To me, she was never meant to be a villain in the first season and more of an antagonist/rival who chose the wrong path, but when you look at the way she acts towards her sister.... it can get very personal and is something a lot of people can relate to from Eda's POV so people are naturally hostile to her as a result.
I don't agree with that notion though, as I always saw a little of my flaws in Lillith. Despite being more on the receiving end of Eda's conflict with her sister, I understand Lilith's desire to be "great" and accepted by others around her. She wants admiration and that's a very genuine flaw to have.
I was shocked when she was fighting Eda and shouted "Then why were you so easy to curse?!" It's a buildup of all that family drama that really made me like her. I could just feel like there was so much regret and sadness and grief in that line along with all that fury and desire to be the best. This scene also probably polarized people, along with the fact that people think she got off easy.
I really, really, really don't think she's got off easy, considering that her whole wish, her whole life up to this point, has been as Eda said "a lapdog to the emperor". Her whole life is tragic, and I feel like if they kept pressing her and reminding her of her faults it would have done more harm than good, so I'm glad they "let her off easy".
In season 2 as she goes on, she's more in her natural state. No goals, no powerful motives, she's just able to live without antagonizing the main cast which I feel is the main reason why people started liking her more because she wasn't being a @hole to the main cast. Pairing her up with Hooty was also fun because he honestly needed a friend.
Me *heart beating faster*: "You use Eda Requiem song! Eeeeeeeee!!!"
Also thanks for the video, your video help me with the idea for my story
I always was eager and interested in lilith as a character, even back during season 1, so i really enjoy watching vids like that even now that lilith is a fan favourite
I really like Lilith as a character and I’m glad she’s finally able to be who she is. But I do agree with a lot of people when I say that her redemption arc felt a bit rushed. Also Luz should have held a grudge longer since Lilith tried to kill her (but she didn’t hold a grudge with Amity so I guess she doesn’t hold grudges that often.) But I won’t fault that on the character or the creators and I’m okay with what they did with her in season two. I just wish they showed her fight more. She proved herself to be good with glyphs. Can she just not use them anymore? That always bugged me with s2 as a whole. With Eda and Lilith not using glyphs more.
Rushed?
As a certified Lilith simp, I thank you for this video. :)
Lilith tragic decision choices
I never saw lilith as a bad character after all the moments eda and lilith had were funny and cute :) season 2 lilith was just so funny and cool! She even is cool aunt lilith hahaha
your underatted
Thank You! Really just try to do my best lol
@@MidgardMadness no problem
I looked up Lilith and I immediately saw some not very poggers things.
Nice vid
I love this video!
I'm glad you do! Was really nervous about making it since it's kinda a hot take in the fandom, so I'm glad you enjoyed!
Frankly, i could never forgive eda's sister for what she did to her. no matter what level of forgiveness or family bonds stands for the betrayal and unwillingness to be openly remorseful for so long in the sisters' lives has installed a deep hatred for Lilith that can't be repaired.
lilith should never be forgiven for what she had done. Had it not been for eda's determination to live her life would have been cut short long ago. lilith hunted and harassed her for decades after lying about her actions. she kidnapped children, attacked people and would have finished her sister off permanently had it not been for strangers eda meet intervening. She has not truly Undone what she has committed onto her sis. Yet others choose to forgive her WHY.!?!?
THE balance has not been restored lilith NEEDS TO EXPERIENCE THE SAME LIFE AS EDA in its entirety before they can claim to be equalled again. THAT MEANS THE FULL CURSE EFFECTS, ostracized from society, years of threats and fights with law enforcement, a complete hobo lifestyle where you never know where your next meal or medicine will come from.
F U Lilith
Well she realized what she did was terrible and changed.
Plus she did work for years in a way to reverse the curse (hey that rhymed), and probably spent years feeling guilt over it. Not to mention, all her work to get into the Coven was all for nothing in a way so........
Repaired by who tho?
That's why I think some forgave Lilith.
Are the shots of Luz and Eda are from prior to Lilith's redemption?
This was made prior to season 2B, so a lot of the stuff I bring up may be outdated, however a lot of it I do still stand by, but I do still respect other peoples opinions that have come to still dislike Lilith regardless of what I say
@@MidgardMadness
Like uh.....
the spikes thing?
I like Season 1 Lilith, and her attempts to fix her mistakes while living her dream. I like Seasons 2-3 Lilith, and her journey on redeeming her past. What I DON'T like, is the transition between the two. I don't buy her going from one to the other in the space of a WEEK(granted, the seasons 1 and 2 transition is jarring for a lot of other things, but Lilith is the worst by far).
i think lilith and eda can do magic together(s3 thery)
People forget that a character being unlikeable at times doesn’t make them a bad character. Of course Lilith was unlikeable, they were doing terrible stuff. But thats the point, they are an antagonist, and they became a better person. Even so, they were always a good character, and were pretty funny.
She's honestly my favourite character asides Luz herself
I never really hated Lilith at all I’m sure I didn’t hate her.
11:16
LILITH AHS AND ALWAYS WILL BE MY FAV CHARACTER
maybe its because i love angsty aunt/mom characters
We all like steve
Steve
Yeah tell this to diviantart.
I kinda like lilith but i was kinda sus of her with the way she treated king in wherefore art thou titan. Eda had to.remind her that he was her nephew. Other than that and her actions in season 1 i really like her. She gets way too much hate
That may be due to how she still kinda has the social perception she's gained from how Belos warped it for her and the people of the Isles. He told the people that the titans were gods and beings that deserve worship through what they've given to the people. Lilith may now have the knowledge that Belos had this hidden agenda of killing of the witches, but still holds onto some of that information that he told, since the topics he covers aren't necessarily that well known, such as the titans. So, when she found out that King was a titan, she fell back into that mindset that titans are divine beings that demand worship and loyalty, hence why she has that sort of behavior in that specific episode, until King tells her that he doesn't want to be treated different simply because he's a titan.
It's a topic that I'm sure I would've talked about in this video, but this was made prior to S2B, and really was more of a defense towards something Schafrillas said in his first Owl House video, but good point of discussion!
@@MidgardMadness yeah king kinda pointed that out. I love his line. Is this how you acted with the emporer im sensing a pattern with you. Still though we stan cool aunt lilith i love how self aware the show can be sometimes.
I feel like people who say she got off easy just think in a binary way with punishment
“Did bad, must punish” it doesn’t matter to them that she did good, that she got better, they think that she should still be punished even though she understands what she did was wrong and won’t ever do it again
Going to disagree with your view of Vergil killing Arkham. He knows that Arkham is going to kill him the second the magician has no further use for him. Vergil was getting in first. He also has no further use for him, Arkham gets stabbed.
You should make a full review of Lilith now The Owl House has finished!
Actually have a script draft for a video idea covering another aspect of her character in full from the whole series
@@MidgardMadness Nice! I love your videos btw!
BRO I LOVE LILITHHH SHE’S JUST SOOOO-
AHHHHHHH
Lilith is one of my favorite character
I love lilith.
weirdly enough i liked lillith after a bit she my favrote and non have came close
I actually liked Lilith more then Eda 😆
: D
I had tonpause. What are you reviewing here? Dmc or Owl house. Because even though I've played it. You are putting this review on a platform where others haven't so you're gonna have to stop using DMC as an example for everything. I mean, Google has some great references.
mmm I think Lilith is overrated still, she was forgiven much too fast and the fandom has already fallen in love with her.
I still dont think lilith is redeemed after all of these years eda suffered the curse. I like Lilith but she is not redeemed in my eyes
That feels like an oxymoron
She grew into a better person and is actively aiding Eda and Luz, what else would you have her do, eat a nuke? Redemption arc isn’t suffering-porn.
Quite the dejavu ayy? At least YOU didn't use it on tyrants, now haven't you?
@@haihuynh8772 People take time to forgive so perhaps simply have it take a little longer to do so?
@@Barakon If the owl house had at least time for redemption episodes... The series is about to end and we've only had one filler episode in the entire series
Well this aged like fine milk dint it ?
How so?
your voice is nasally
To answer your question. Yes, she does deserve to be hated.
Well, she has turned over a new leaf?
..You gonna elaborate, or..???
@@funnylittlecreature He's not. He's malding about Lilith on every Video she is in and has creepy Murder-Fantasies about her. He's pretty obsessed with them, too.
@@alexandersturnn4530 She almost killed a child, forced her to remain trapped on the demon realm away from her mother, almost had her sister killed (petrified), and mocked her of the curse she gave her. Should I go even deeper when it comes to lying to her family and forcing Eda to deal with the curse for years and tearing apart her family. I understand this was done by a naive child, but it still does not change the facts and, as an adult, she had the choice and opportunities to help them sooner. But of course, everyone has forgotten and pretty much forgave her just like that, as if nothing has happened. You think I want her to die or be sacrificed for her to be redeemed. No. I want her to fully feel ashamed and go all the way in enduring the years worth of punishment she gave her sister and fully turn into the raven creature again, only to be forever trapped in that and then accept her fate. She is too far from being given any form of redemption and you all should not forgive this easily. You should not get too attached to her and you should not automatically accept her, neither should the characters in the show. She may have changed, but it still does not erase the damage. Eda may have better control over her curse, but Lilith should not get her harpy form and have it controlled or be accepted by anyone. That is how Eda felt for the last 30 years. Now I am sorry if you don't agree with my response, but she can't be redeemed and was unfairly forgiven for everything she caused. Yet, everyone seems to move on to hate Camila for no reason because she wanted her daughter back and wanted to help her. You all have your appreciation misplaced on her. If you love her then fine, but I, however, can never forgive her.
@@chineduokafo4856 Like I said: Creepy Murder and Revenge Fantasies over a fictional Character
That's all I'm seeing from you.
Lilith is over-appreciated. She should not be forgiven. She is the worst character and the worst part of this show.
Even worse than Odalia?
uh oh!! looks like someone clicked on a video solely because they disagreed with the title and then didn’t watch it!!!
@@quinnfletcher3906 Indeed. And that includes learning of Odalia willingly helping Belos carry out his plans.
@@funnylittlecreature I have and I am still not convinced about that ugly harpy being redeemed or otherwise good.
@@chineduokafo4856 Okay, now you have officially lost all credibility.
Whatever you may think about Lilith and her Actions, what she did was objectively NOT worse then knowingly and willingly participating in a Genocide just to increase her own Social Status like Odalia did.