How to Save Victims of Disinformation (Anand Giridharadas Interview)
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- Опубліковано 12 лис 2022
- -- Anand Giridharadas, journalist, commentator, and author of the new book "The Persuaders: At the Front Lines of the Fight for Hearts, Minds, and Democracy," joins David to discuss changing minds, persuasion, and much more in today's political climate of disinformation. Get the book: amzn.to/3Ek9OPD
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Broadcast on November 10, 2022
#davidpakmanshow #persuasion #anandgiridharadas
Anand is an absolute treasure, always happy to see what he's been up to :)
The line between making them feel dumb but showing that they’re being misled is a fine one!
It’s nearly impossible. I’ve been trying with this channel for awhile. And you will likely read this and dismiss it. Which demonstrates how impossible it really is.
@@ricardocabeza6006 - It is great to LIKE your own comments.
Asking them questions about what they believe in a way that makes them think deeper about it and makes you seem reasonable from their point of view is a good start. Like: "how does that work", "where did you find this info" and so one.
@@dyronw.brodbeck What do they say about trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome? And he still keeps coming back for more.
@@guacamolekid3899
Please enlighten us
David’s guest was very articulate and engaging. I find it to be mentally stimulating whenever I listen to intelligent people having intelligent discussions.🧠👌🏻
I would look into Anand on UA-cam if I were you. He has some great material.
Don't bother on Troth Sensual then! 👍
David is showing the worst of Chump segments just for you!
He’s one of the absolute best out there. I just LOVE it when he is a guest on just about any show, particularly on Left Independent Media. While he has a lot of different theses, he can often have new and unique conversations and comes away with new perspectives in these conversations. He is a person who thinks, listens and collaborates.
Sarah Silverman said: “People don’t change because of facts. They change because of feelings.”
I've changed my opinion on plenty of things because of facts. The only things I've changed my opinion about because of feeling are subjective things, like sports or music. Most recent example I can think of is that I used to think of weed as mostly harmless, and totally fine, and I still have that opinion for adults. But due to recent research I've seen, or at least that I've seen more recently that shows it can cause harm to younger people who are still developing, I don't think anyone under 20ish should use any form of weed. It can be bad for emotional development. I was guilty of it myself, but whoops I guess, can't change the past.
Anand is fantastic . He’s brilliant on MSNBC when they have him . Wish he had a regular show I could tune into
MSNBC? A pathetic mouth piece for the establishment and for the military industrial complex and pushing a one-sided narrative, devoid of any objectivity and alternative perspectives.
Ah yes, Anand Gridharadas, excellent. Haven't heard much from him over the past few years. For those, like many below, who react positively to the discussion, and Giridharadas in general, I would recommend seeking out some of his talks/interviews over the past 5 or 6 years or so on You Tube, or getting one or two of his books. He is a gem.
I love this guy I can listen to him all day long
Wow! Great interview! We need more conversations like this in the public sphere.
I have been working on a Republican for 6 years. I think I’m FINALLY breaking through! She doesn’t watch Fox News (or really news in general) so she wasn’t completely lost.
Most "republicans" if they understand the policies are more just conservative democrats, or even misguided progressives. It doesn't help that republicans convinced themselves they're the party of Christianity
Yup, it’s official. Politics is the new religion. Congrats on being a missionary of the DNC.
@@ricardocabeza6006 unlike you, when presented with facts, she accepts them. She’s not stupid.
@@ricardocabeza6006 lmao, it really does read like a Christian that's been trying to convert a friend. These lefties are fucking weird man.
@@ricardocabeza6006 - Liking your own comments... How amazing is that?
Thank you for bringing Anand on your show to speak on this subject. It will help me bring more to the table next time a sit down and chat with my father, a far-right conservative (I live in canada and it's just as bad here). My father and I have had a bad relationship most of my life, giving me a reason to leave home at 16. I've been reluctant to spend any time with him since my mother's passing last year but last month I decided to try and bring him back to being a normal conservative; which is someone I can actually put up with. We had supper together and we talked about everything including politics. And I jumped to the occasion to challenge him on his ideology. It went better than I thought and was probably made easier given my current medical issues and his acceptance that I am not making up the symptoms I am experiencing; I have a neurological condition which I am waiting on a diagnosis. Can you image a father not believing his daughter and then telling his own grand-daughter he thinks her mother is crazy and that it's all in her head. I'm not sure why I'm trying to save him from himself and sometimes I simply wonder why I even try!?
Far right conservative is an oxymoron, conservatives are moderate right. Further right than that would be a libertarian, and extreme right would be a minarchist or anarchist.
I'm so sorry! I have a fraught relationship with both my parents, unfortunately, but my attempts at civil, respectful conversations challenging their views have all ended in my dad blowing up at me and my mom accusing me of being brainwashed. I've pretty much given up. My parents watch Newsmax, listen to Mike Pillow, and spend every waking hour at their evangelical cult church. They've entrenched themselves over the past several years and I don't think I can rescue our relationship, unfortunately. I don't know what to do with people who have been lied to and who buy the lies hook, line, and sinker. Best of luck receiving a diagnosis and treatment. I'm a long-time sufferer of multiple autoimmune diseases, and I understand the pain. I hope your relationship with your dad improves.
@@lindsayhobbs6536 wow, my pillow guy is so out in left field it's scary that he is able to walk free... and what's worse is he has a following but it all trickles down to the trumps cult and I think Trump is even trying to distance himself from him he goes to the cult rallies but you only see him out front he hasn't been inside or up on stage anymore, but remember you only get one set of parents if there's away I urge you to try and fix things with them just don't talk politics,
Keep plugging away young lady, you sound like a strong woman and maybe in your dad's old age he'll soften up a little rather than getting mean in his old age, and want to get to know his granddaughter, remember you can lead a horse to water but you can't make um drink.. good luck and I hope it works out for you and your father.
One of my very favorite interviews of all time, David. Very hopeful. The book’s suggestions and techniques are so constructive.
Most Excellent! Most Informative. On a personal level, in a series of powerful realizations over 10 years ago, before I could even fathom the currant insanity, I came up with a series, "If Man is to Survive", the first and main one was, "If man does not learn to place value on what has been shown to be true (and conversely reject what has been proven false), he will not survive". I am blown away by the truth and power of what somehow came to me before this age of insanity I could not imagine could exist. Other powerful things too, things in general man assumes to be true/believes without questioning it, that are false or opposite to the truth that send him down a wrong path. Many things man does not want to hear but must. What is sad, I cant find anyone who wants to at least listen to my ideas.
I have been listening to Anand's current book. I find it very interesting and useful in understanding human nature and the mess that we are in nationally and globally.
A great discussion and very timely. Deep canvassing is a powerful technique, as is street epistemology. You can find many video examples of Street Epistemology on UA-cam, but I’m not familiar with any video examples that are publicly available of deep canvassing. I’d love to see some.
Very nice introduction to this guy thanks to you David.
Such a nice addition to the sanity you bring to the world
👍🙏👌
Anand always brings it!. Thanks David.
Fantastic guest David. Clearly someone who can teach us plenty
I am very guilty of the whole “here are some counter facts” and overall being condescending. When I perceive people to be fighting really hard to deny reality for an agenda, it causes me to view them with utter contempt. I need to work on that but honestly it won’t be easy.
Start by asking questions that make them think beyond the surface level talking points. Ask them for their sources so you can learn the "truth". Play along but make them come up with issues with their thinking or point out contradictions in a "that's interesting" tone and follow up with asking what part is right and how do we know.
Same here. It doesn't help when they are so smug about being so wrong, as well. Ignorance is a virtue to them. They just call it "faith" then pat themselves on the back.
You save them with accurate, detailed, extensive, honest information which is sorely lacking on screens everywhere.
This doesn't work. And, as a matter of fact, if you do that, the person will just double down and dig in even deeper into their false way of thinking. Very few people want to be told they are wrong, and be corrected. The only way to change their minds is to plant a seed to get them to challenge their own logic. The issue is, how much self reflection is a person willing to do. Also a problem is the constant barrage of misinformation being hurled at these people by someone who says "I'm not saying it's true, I'm only asking questions."
@@danieldwyer the fact that you see asking questions as a problem shows that you're actually the one living in a make believe fantasy world. People who live in reality aren't scared of questions, even if they don't like the answers.
I just want to share my experience. I once had a psychotic episode from lack of sleep and depression. I became paranoid and delusional believing i have a psychic connection with a guy I saw on TV. Luckily i realized i had a problem and seek help straight away. I've seen many interviews of ex qanon believers saying they were having mental health issues when they started to consume qanon materials. It may sound like an excuse but i think most of qanon believers essentially have mental health issues which makes them vulnerable and susceptible to anything that speaks to that vulnerability. I would suggest building trust with that person and connect with them to first make sure they don't have any psychological issues. So media or merely spewing facts are not the right tools for this. It has to be done on the personal level i.e. ppl who already has a connection with them
@@zahirahza Leftists are far more likely to have mental health issues than moderates and conservatives. The further left someone goes, the more likely they have at least one diagnosed mental disorder. Interestingly, the same trend isn't nearly as pronounced on the right. Even people on the extreme right have about the same likelihood of mental illness as people just a little left of center.
@@markzuckergecko621 what study is this based on?
That was so hopeful and inspiring!
Excellent guest and interview. Thank you.
A good example of this is Anthony Magnabosco’s “Street Epistemology.” He is able to use the Socratic Method to probe people’s beliefs, often without the conversation devolving into an argument or debate.
Thank you David and Anand for your enlightening ,nuanced discussion……..always a pleasure!…….want more…..Be Well Everyone………..
This was really really good. Thank you both 🖖
Another angle is to reinforce the true complexity of the problems around us, not by finding solutions, we tend to over simplify solutions, but by talking about why a problem is a problem from experts and teachers then we can truly awaken our understanding against a belief or feeling.
Love this dude. Super insightful.
Thanks for this interview. Amazing topic!
The other thing I've found that works is finding some grievances that they have which they attribute to something and expanding that grievance to include stuff on the right. This cracks the blind faith they have and you can slowly tug them to the centre and perhaps eventually to the left. In my experience, it's not a smooth process nor a quick one, but possible
Perhaps..primetime can air a special and show people past psych experiments that show how easy it is to manipulate minds...on other subjects prior to politics, to maybe prime an opening...for reality. 100-200 level Psych classes cover this...
💯🎯. Yes, I see huge manipulation on both the right and the left. I love how Dems stand up for what is morally right on many issues, but I see many of them fall for the same manipulation that Hitler used: Trading your Rights for "Security". This is where I have a libertarian stance. Republicans also have the same issue as well as some immoral ones such as LGBTQ are not equal. Mainstream media lies, and often quote bad studies to fit their agenda. People need to learn to do thier own research, learn the scientific method and learn fact checking so they won't be duped by politicians, police and the media.
FOX SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. please follow up on that lawsuit.... 30 balloons 🎈
Fabulous, David. I learned a lot. 👍🏻
I'm reading Anand Giridharadas' book right now. Loving it. Thanks for pointing it out to us David!
Wow I need this badly
Thank you, David. I will take a different approach when it comes to those dupped by a con-man.
Anand is one of my favorite authors
Reassuring stuff! Thanks David and Anand.
This was very educational! Thank you!
There are people who know the difference between beliefs and facts. Opinionated vs Learned. Knowledgeable vs Ignorant. Stubborn vs Open minded.
They are fighting the educating of people out of being vulnerable to disinformation and misinformation. Some people have the bound-to's and the can't help-it's. Those who are bound to join and those who can't help joining. Skepticism is what needs to be taught. This is one thing that George Carlin had right;
Excellent!
I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks David
What I find fascinating about our history is the switching of the party platforms in the early 19th century . Republicans were originally the party of bigger government. They changed in about 1930 . Democrats used to be conservatives..they changed when the republicans did . If the ‘platform’ defines what political ‘faction’ a person is elected into, then why can’t we agree to change the complete designation /names of the parties . If one party is for lower taxes and less government, they should have to file platform policies with this in mind. They should be designated with this in mind. When we use names/designators like Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal it doesn’t mean what the word stands for . That person is being sorted into a party that they could very well disagree with . Nobody will require them to file agreement or opposition with a platform prior to joining . Nothing will officially be asked of them other than that they offer up support for the party /designees they want to win favor with . The names are triggering war. Change them .
YOU are the only one who can change your mind. So, persuading, only works by planting a seed so the idea change is their own.
Great conversation
Really enjoy Anand's writings!
I get what he's saying. Ive used this technique on my mother. But the fact that people can't connect the dots without doing all that still makes me sad.
this was an amazing interview
This is why there's a new right wing documentary every month. They're working perfectly to encase people's lightly held beliefs in cement. They identify with these ideas so much questioning them feels like death.
Most research shows that the right tends to understand the beliefs of the left much more than the reverse. There's a much largely conversion of left to right than of right to left left. So it appears the right and conservatives are more capacity for self-criticism than the left. .
@@shlockofgod I've not seen that research. If true I can imagine it's the trend of people to get slightly more conservative when they get older due to making more money they don't want taxed and having kids which makes them more fearful which is the engine of reactionary conservatism.
@@Chelts The research is detailed in Jonathan Haidt's, "The righteous mind". The same research did not find that conservatives were more fearful but did have or develop a greater disgust response. In terms of fear the leftists and socialists tend to live in a semi-permanent scarcity mindset, always requiring a government safety net and the pseudo parentage of the state.
I did a piece on Edward Bernays nearly 2 years ago. He was the innovator behind behavior modification, now called propaganda and advertising, and also happened to be Sigmund Freud's nephew. It works all the time. It's just a question of to what degree.
Excellent.
For those with older patents in the cult... The best thing to do is to introduce good media into their ecosystem. You can do this directly or indirectly. Unsub them from crazy chain emails, change their default news station/radio, unfollow reactive friends on their facebook news feed so they see more reasonable or nonpolitical pages. As hard as it is, try to stay in their lives and anchor them to reality. When the real world disconnects with them, they dig in their heels and are harder to get out.
persuasion is the correct term for what is happening in the world now. people are persuaded every day by tv and the internet
Anand speaks like the author James Baldwin. Very intelligent and compelling.
Well in the UK Media Studies/Communication Studies did exactly what is now being asked for. But the Right Wing has purged all subjects involving critical thinking about the media and society.
Would love to save my dad from this...
Great interview
Good information
"Detect and interdict." I agree.
'Watch a voter change their mind about transgender discrimination' is the name of the video Anand mentions at 18:40
'education is the answer' has been the proposed answer for many social problems. the problem is, under neoliberalism, public education has been systematically undermined for cheap votes for about 40 years now. teaching used to be a desirable profession, it used to pay enough for a single teacher to buy a home in a better than average area and go on regular holidays. it used to be that a teacher had respect in society and from the parents of their students. this does not exist in any anglophone country now. also; extreme right wingers are forever interfering in what teachers want to teach. believe me, if that included critical thinking they would brand it as 'grooming' or something. its too late, anand, too late
Socratic questioning however is very persuasive, true. But it depends on having a face to face relationship.
How did you suggest to handle a family member that thinks everything they see on social media is fake?
Most of it is not accurate and/or misleading.
I would just suggest they're right, much of it is fake. Maybe they should totally forego social media and get their news from other reliable news sources. PBS, AP, NPR, USA today, Reuters, BBC, etc.
@@FleurPillager So there is really no way to find a source that will give you accurate information?
@@Bdermady use multiple sources and critical thinking. The second part is the hard part, because some people lack the necessary equipment. But you shouldn't trust or distrust information based on the source it's coming from. That's what cults do. You should believe it disbelieve things based on the evidence and verification, and you also have to have the humility to know you could be wrong.
Persuade them to get their GED. Critical thinking is taught at the high school level.
When I talk to people about my liberal views. I Don't tell they are wrong in their fears or dislikes. But in how much better we can do, if we only work for the people and not for business. The government is not a business, it is a tool to be used for the better of you, me, society our world. We all want only one thing: Justice
If these persuadable people are so easily manipulated, how do we know that they're persuadable beliefs aren't again changed for the worse, double edged sword this argument.
Why do people vote against helping those that are clearly in need of assistance… then complain about them for the position that they are in?
Criticizing people like that when you are partly responsible for the position that they are in… seems to be what defines you.
We have to thank trump and the gop… he and them created a villain without anyone asking that ppl can unite against and allow society to tackle complex issues… ppl hate change
People hate change, so they elected a reality show business mogul as president instead of the same old uniparty suits we elected for pretty much the entire history of the country? Yea little fella, your logic doesn't check out.
Great interview, my first question is: what is in the can he is drinking? Is that Diet Coke?
No sorted, but divided, separated.
You are talking about the differences between leaders and followers.
When listening to the Jordan Klepper interviews you just see people talking in contradictions and just blazing on :/
I'm not even interested in bringing them back their lost
The time has come to honour political correctness. Why has that even become something negative among the hip?
I subscribe to Pakman for content like this. Much moreso than the silly dunking on republicans (I get it, that stuff is fun, but videos like this are more interesting and important)
That gay vote in cali was more to do with just bad wording. Opponents did a great job wordsmithing it so you really didnt know what it was saying, so it was prudent to vote know.
Thats something I'd like to do, go knock on some MAGA doors and ask questions, I really cant understand what makes someone a Donald Trump supporter. I want to know, I want to know what they're thinking, what they THINK they'll get from supporting him, how they don't see him as the con-clown that he is, to prove me wrong, to show me that he ISN'T a clown and grifter. I want to do a reverse canvass, go door to door asking people why I should vote for Donald Trump. Explain it to me.
This was a really really good interview…kind of makes me want to start a cult though.
How to stop the people at the root of disinformation.
He's selling some hope
That added to our (public?) education system will sit so well in with CRT and grooming! These same tin foilers will block it at every turn!
I was involve with a national effort to get "Critical Thinking" courses into the public school system in the '80's. Parents thought that would be wonderful until little Johnny or Janie came home with this new skill and questioned long held family "values". Courses usually got 2-3 months before parents shut them down.
You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
FLYNNIE the Q and piglet MTG apprenticeship
TrumpT STONE preys on greivance of his victims
Girr R Das
I disagree. Everyone can be taught, no matter how rooted your believe is. But only through logic and justice. Have to teach them to think. Have to show how to recognize fake news. Make them think, as only we can teach ourself anything by thinking.
Such as, why listen to politicians that tell you not to listen to the experts?
They should feel stupid. (I’m being facetious).
No one addresses that the division is within white communities
I agree with that
You're right, I consider myself divided from anyone who considered themselves a part of the "white community", or any other identity based community for that matter. My community is my friends and family, and the people living around me.
"White community?"😂
Second!
Free hot dogs and spiked 🍊 juice.
so elon musk is a disinformation "artist". yea credibility down the drain after tht comment lol
Sorry Pakman, I prefer truth that points out the BS from both sides.
Jimmy Dore has shown me what you are
You can't lie to me.
I know better.
I feel like you could help anybody with that dude's hair. Probably have some type of magical properties
Pakman: Did you warn your viewers that Sam Bankman is a con artist?
Why not?
You give out financial advice as if you are Dave Ramsey!
Sam Bankman is a huge financial donor to the Democrat Party.
I have to disagree. Only minorities on both sides are open to be persuaded to think logically, not the majority.
Why is that?
Treat others how you would like to be treated. It's in the Bible guys. Cmon.
You were wrong about the midterms
I'm gay and I can say that I do think Trans is weird, I think its such a narrow and small section of society and I wish we could get off of it as a party, yes, they deserve to be treated with respect and to be as happy as the next person. It shouldn't be such a talking point for us, we've become so defined by that niche stuff and its hurting us at the ballots. That isn't the hill I want to die on and it makes us look weird. Once we've addressed the BIGGER issues that are actually RELEVANT to the majority THEN we can move on to the minority and it IS a minority, like REALLY REALLY small group of people to be taking up so much oxygen. Sorry to sound like a bigot, I'm not, its just my thought.
Trans people aren't necessarily gay. 🙄
@@emmarae4322 I didn't say they were,, I said that I WAS so that people didn't think I was a "Cisgendered majority making bigoted comments" although people will probably paint me as a gay person making bigoted comments.
What’s with the “SIR” thing? It’s getting obnoxious now.
nobody has ever said immigrants are lazy. on the contrary i think ppl were worried about the strain on the social service system. and the under the counter cheap labor that displaces lower income professions
FIRST!!!!
Crazy eyes here is the king of misinformation
You must have a fetish for David’s eyes dude. Control yourself
You can't persuade people who know you're lying.
I hope that's lemonade in my cup. Feels a little bit too warm though.
It is easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled -- Mark Twain
Considering all the LIARS you subscribe too... do you consider Ben Shapiro, Ron Johnson & tim pool reliable source of information?