How to Choose the Right Handlebars? (Width, Reach, & Design)
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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About Neill Stanbury: neillsbikefit....
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Choosing the right handlebar width, reach, and design can be a challenge for many road cyclists out there. Often neck and shoulder pain contribute to the design to change handlebars, so in this video expert bike fitter Neill Stanbury provides and overview of selecting the right handlebar, notably pinpointing drop bare for road cycling. Key talking points include, gape, reach, width and general design.
#Handlebar #bike #fit
The cycling community is so fortunate to have access to this guy.
agreed
Absolutely
Cam is the man. Have learned so much from him
Changed the stock 42 cm Bontrager 100 mm bars on my Trek in exchange for a 40 cm Specialized Short Reach 65 mm and it makes a huge difference. I saved a yard of reach and changed the 90 for a 105 mm stem and get much better access to the STI levers in the drops now...
I personally like to ride narrower bars, although my shoulder width measures 43 cm.
6:40 is the tip for the width which most only care for
great video. you can tell he really know what's he's talking about. No BS, slow talking, confident. perfect
thank you Cam for arranging these videos and Neill has to be the most clear and understandable fitter on youtube!
The best bang for buck is a Pro PLT Ergo aluminum bar. 275-285g range.
Another great video Cam. I could listen to Neil's advice 24/7 as he is so knowledgeable.
This guy is the only one who talks about bent elbows (8:06), I think he may be the best around. Every one else just says shoulder with from A to B and away you go. I have pretty bent elbows so I bought some really narrow flare bars 330 at the bend and 410 at the drops to replace my 420s. It sounds extreme but when I hold my arms in a natural position my hands are only 270mm apart and my thumbs rest inward (kind of like when holding a stearing wheel)so I am thinking these bars may be just the thing to help me not get numb hands and a stiff should. If I lived in Oz I would get a bike fit from this guy, I think he knows his stuff. Tell you how it goes when I fit them and go for a ride (if your interested).
I’m broad shouldered but I love my 36’s. Anything bigger than that feels like it makes you into a human parachute.
Ovalised bars... YES! Such a pain trying to get lights fitted on them...
I never even thought of that, but im glad you mentioned it before i spend a fortune on bars though :)
Another great video Cam - thanks to you and Neill for producing it. One suggestion for a future video would be flexibility and core stability. These factors are always cited as being important in bike fitting, and comfort/performance, and with Neil’s expertise as a fitter and physio, it’d be great to hear from him about this - how flexible/strong do you really need to be on the bike, and any exercises/stretches etc that he’d advise clients to do. Hope that helps, and keep up the good work 👍
Cheers mate and great suggestions for future vids. We'll get onto that. Cheers, Cam
Why do many bikes come with a very wide stock handlebar? I’m currently going through a fitting process and my Cervélo Caledonia came stock with 44cm width bars so I had to order 38cm handlebars. My fitter said that he has only ever fitted three people with 44cm bars and two of those three people were professional CFL football players. Why would Cervélo do this?
I think it would be the other way around---if in doubt, go narrower, not wider. Both my shoulders are wrists had a hard time on 40cm bars in which two bike fitters recommended. I eventually changed to at 38cm and feels just perfect with no stress on wrists or shoulders. The best thing to do is try riding with different widths and not use a static measurement to decide
This is interesting. I go between 38 40 and 42 between 3 different bikes depending on the time of the year. It boggles me how 38s can feel perfect in the Spring and Summer, but during winter even 40s feel too narrow. I think it might have something to do with clothing, wearing more layers in the winter.
I use a Specialized Short Reach handlebar. 65mm reach, 123mm drop. I use a 36cm on c-c so they are around 34cm on the hoods. Great stuff for a small diminutive rider at 1.65m height.
Thanks for sharing Jin
I am looking at getting this exact same bar except in 38. Currently have 42 flared and it's not comfortable at all.
Stanbury has likely saved hundreds of people from hundreds of hours of immense discomfort.
I think for me the reach is very important as I reach to the hoods as my fastest position. Adding an extra centimeter to the reach is the same as adding an extra centimeter to the stem when I am on the hoods (most of the time)
I had lower back issues forever and always though it was due to cleats, q factor, or saddle issues. Turns out that even though my shoulders are slightly over 42cm my elbows have valgus angles so now I use a 38cm bar and no lower back issues anymore.
this is priceless!! thank you very much
Im a big dude 6’3 120kg FSA Omega Compact all the way-Aluminum, 42mm 80mm reach all day everyday
this is the first time i've ever heard a fitter say go wider if in doubt, wouldn't a wider bar pull your shoulder-blades back causing you to arch your back more? I had that problem with my bars, going more narrow i was able to keep a straighter back and reduced low back pain.
Thanks for sharing Darin, interesting to hear
I had exactly the same experience. It made a big difference for me to get narrower handle bars. But all that happened in combination with setting cleats back and lower the saddle, that helped too.
Will you make a video about frames and how to pick the right size also? That would awesome!
Yes, we will Tom! Thanks for suggesting.
2 years have passed now. Have you done it? In that case, where can i find it? 😊
This guy is a rockstar
Good vid, but conflating deep and wide is no doubt confusing for many.
"There are people who prefer those crazy old bars with the huge drop..."
I resemble that remark. But I get it now.
People who enjoy a classic road set up, with less extream drop between the bars and saddle and ride in the drops on a classic shaped frame that's actually in their size, instead of going through the trial and error of the compact-frame game. A lot of profession fitting is necessitary and a big help because most modern frames do not come within ranges that fit a lot of people, like when frames used to come in one or two centimeter increments.
This guy is a legend
that Chapter bike is never gonna be sold
For me personally, I am straight arms and it's much more painful for me to go wider vs narrow. When i go wider and I'm on the hoods, my wrists tend to bend too much to the outside which leads to numbness.
I've got a carbon 42 3t ergo bar on a bike from a few years ago now. Very stiff but comfortable.
Great as always! Can you and Neil discuss the effect that handlebar height and stem length have on the bike fit?
Also about a factor and spacers if knock kneed or the opposite?
Will cover a fair bit of this next week, stay tuned.
@@CamNicholls Awesome!👊🏾
Yes would like to know more about this as well. Cheers 🚲
Patrick I had a bike fit with Neil on a bike identical to one I had been riding since the 80's. I have 2, one with a neo retro setup and one close to how it was way back when, both with the same dimensions to the contact points. Cockpit is the same on both (Cinelli 1A stem, Giro bars, Potenza levers). For the purpose of my observations, lets imagine they are identical where it counts.
While Neil will explain much better than I why this is done, for my individual circumstances spacers were fitted to the pedals to stop the knees moving from side to side, a thing I'd previously associated with seat height being too low. In fact the seat was too high and was dropped a fair bit. In addition the stem length needs to be shortened but its not an easy thing to do with a quill stem and will happen the next time the bike goes to the shop. Stem was raised to deal with my physiology (old and inflexible) to improve comfort. Handlebars were rotated slightly to move the hoods up and back to reduce the reach as a short term measure to improve comfort. The goal is to reduce weight on the shoulders from memory by not leaning so far forward. Even though I've been riding this way for decades, I noticed an improvement following this correction.
Back to my two previously close to identical bikes. The one he adjusted is now obviously easier to propel and more comfortable than the one he didn't. Side by side you would barely notice a difference between them. And yes, I'll be transferring the measurements across and adding spacers at some point for sure.
Best bike fit ever.
@@KeithHeinrich awesome thanks for the insight! Might just have to travel the 1800km to see him!
You mention normal hand size go with a shallow, short reach bar. What if you have small hands. I am a small dude and wear like an XS glove. Is there something beyond shallow drop, short reach that would be better for me?
Great tips well done thank you
bought a Trek Emonda ALR recently and didn’t feel OK; turns out Trek installs 100mm reach handlebars ☹️... my previous bike was a Canyon with 70mm reach; most brands are 70-80mm reach
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing Chris.
Again great video. Wonderful cooperation.
As for the oval top bars.
I used to love them, but when I want to find the right position in the drops, combine that with the right position of the hoods, I find it difficult to keep the plane paralel to my hands.
So I end up feeling "sort of" on a slide.
Roud top bars save me from this reason.
Great info... 🍻
Wide Low Straight Handle Bar like Pipe
Mounted Directly. No need of Pivot
My Favourite
20T Long Wheel Base Aluminum Cycle
This ll ve Handling of BMX & Comfort of MTB
Wit Rear Brake Only. No Disc Brake
Aluminum bcz Aluminum is a Soft Metal
U dnt need Suspension
I need to get back to working out but school is soooo stressful at the end of the semester. I only have a week and a half left and then I can start working out and running again.
All the best with the end of the semester.
I just bought my first dropbar bike, and tonight, after three days worth of riding it, I put a riser set on it. I just could not get comfortable on it. It seems to me there is no good ergonomic position to place the brake levers. For city riding in traffic, it feels unsafe.
Yeah my feeling too, steering one handed through traffic while braking ain’t for drops.
@jojojo8835 Ya know what I did, though? I tooke the drop set, flipped it upside down, chopped it down to short bullhorns, got the brake levers mounted where they're accessible, and it's the most comfy ride I own.
OMG i just got measured and i need a 44, wide bar
great video thanks for the info
Classic video Cam👍.I would prefer an aero drop bar with concealed cable capability😎
Love your content and these bike fit episodes are priceless. Expert advice! One question... I keep seeing these wooden Viking boat bike stands on the set background. What are they and where can they be had? Thanks!
which ever bar that doesn't have internal cable routing is the BEST bar !!
The valgus elbow explanation was so spot on for me and I could never figure out why 36cm c-c bars felt so much nicer to me (I'm just naturally curious so experimented with various bar widths). My shoulders and lats felt like they can comfortably relax more.
Fyi, my shoulder measures 41cm and I got a 42" chest. Never had difficulties breathing when doing harder efforts.
Great stuff.
I’ve heard multiple sources discuss if a bar is too wide, it causes neck and shoulder discomfort. That wasn’t mentioned here. Interesting.
I believe if you’re well outside the parameters that will be the case!
Not sure if this would be feasible, but Neill should offer remote bike fit appointment packages over Zoom - especially for those of us far away, like across the ocean. :)
Any tips for newbee to sprint on Drops? I feel like im going outbalanced when i try sprinting on drops as i sway.
I love this series, thank you for making them. On some previous episode Neill talked with high regard about SQLabs saddles (well, according to Neill they are the best) with SMP being second. This surprises me, because when you look at their profile from the rear the first one is completely flat (at least it shows this way on their website) while SMP is gently curved. Could you ask Neill to comment on this -- I mean, how come flat profile on a long ride does not become a problem? One could think that on a skinny pony you should put a straight plank instead of a regular curved saddle. Sure thing, bicycle and horse are two different things, but still...
More to come on this mate, thanks for suggesting too.
Hmm, this guy better come up with some new "science" to support the current fad of crazy-narrow bars. 👍 Narrow bars are as uncomfortable as they look. I've gone wider for comfort, to 43s and 44. If someone really needs to be a few Watts faster for a couple of minutes, they can move their forearms in.
I think what's left out of the conversation about deeper, traditional drops, is that the bars were never slammed and were much higher, along with lower seat height, stretching the rider horizontally to get aero, not extremely downwards. It was not an uncomfortable stretch, in fact, the position facilitates you spending most of your time comfortably in the drops with hands close to the brake levers and the downtube shifter being automatically reachable(the secret of mastering shifting downtube shifters on a vintage bike, ride in the drops). The drops were usually somewhere that riders sit in the hoods today.
Agreed. There's also a position on classic bars that I find comfortable and that is to drape your fingers on the ramps behind the hoods with the palm resting on the bend into tops. It doesn't offer an immediate grab on the brakes, but then again if your bar is positioned where the drops are comfortable, you can brake no problem. I dunno, I just like all the eras of bike stuff.
@@allrounderbicycle7193 That's what the ramps are for, they're a resting position that gives your palms a resting spot on old school, short brake hoods. I usually just mind not to rest on the ramps in crowded areas, or if there's traffic and I need to suddenly brake.
Whose sticking their arms out in front of them?
mummies and zombies in cheesy horror movies?
sleepwalkers.. lol
Neil mentions frontal shoulder pain, I get discomfort at the back of my shoulder. I'm assuming thats caused by something different? If so, What!?
I am one of those with the extreme valgus elbow. Had never thought of it in terms of bike fit, but it's good to know that I could be receptive to shallower bars if I ever decided to try it. Maybe give it a shot on the bike I use for Merckx TTs.
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing Stephen.
@@CamNicholls finally got around to having the Mrs help me measure my shoulder width, and it turns out they are 37cm. So a 38cm bar seems definitely worth a try.
I don't race!! no other source of up to date knowledge is out there, inviting new racing want to be's to make the leap. thank you.
This is great fit advice. However, I had Ergonovas at one time and found the hand angle in the drops becomes awkward when you have to get on the brakes hard and repeatedly - on long technical descents. The deep drop bars are much better for this and you can descend with much more control and confidence. I have found shallow drop bars that are slightly flared work well too.
It went together easily in less than an hour. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
Would you recommend the Deda Elementi Zero100 RHM bars?
from my experience .. handlebar width largely is depending on how much support you need from it .. how much weight you put on it
90% of the time .. when you put only minimal weight on the handlebar .. a narrow one would be just fine .. because you are riding with bended elbow .. so it does not matter much the width .. it would not impact your breathing .. because your bended elbow compensate
only in extreme cases where you need more support .. for example in off saddle sprinting .. then you would need a wider handlebar to rock side to side
my 2 cents
Thanks for sharing on the thread mate
Neil, please open a branch or shop here in San Diego CA.
The Cycling Wizard.
haha correct
I went from a bar that had sharp bent drops to bars with more round(uniform) bent drops, because I could not find good position for hods on that sharp bend. If I moved hods up where I liked. I could not reach the levers from drops anymore. I did not want to dial levers reach too much closer too, because I think it shortens the brake pull rate and that's not good with mechanical disc brake.
I have narrow shoulders and long arms.. ape index +9. Don't know how long my arms are relatively to torso length. But on most of bikes that I have had. I always find the reach being too far and handlebar too high.
Now I have bicycle one size smaller than factory recommendation, and also stem replaced with one cm shorter, and all spacers taken out from steerer. That way I'm pretty comfortable. Elbows bent, when riding, and won't get shoulder and neck pain anymore..
With original stem and handlebar that my bike came with. I could adjust it so, that I was comfortable only on drops, and tops, but not on hods. Now I can hold from everywhere, although none of position is 100% comfortable/ideal I think.. maybe 82%? But that is already good enough. I can't imagine riding those old type classic handlebars, with huge reach and drop. Even setting up the compact bar, was so difficult for me.
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing mate.
I have the same exact problem. I also tried turning down the bar and seems to be better in the drop and top position but I always feel short on the hoods, even with a 1cm shorter stem. After 3 hours I always start having muscular pain on the neck and shoulders. This is really annoying
@@mm-ew5df I have now also cranks replaced with shorter ones. I had standard 172.5 mm long cranks. Replaced them with 165mm long cranks last year. And that made things much better. I think that now, with shorter cranks, I would be able to ride with longer stem too, but I feel good with this one too. Crank arm length I selected based on the equation of "tight bone lenght in inches is equal of crank lenght in centimeters." My tight length from hip axle to knee axle is 42 cm which converted to inches is 16.5 inch and so it means 165mm long crank should be right. And really, I'm so glad I replaced the cranks. I can ride much longer and I don't need to stop for catch my breath on top of every bigger slope anymore. I think one factor why I was struggling so much for finding right position for saddle, handlebar and shoe cleats, was because the cranks were little too long for me. ^_^
@@rttm thank you for the reply. I am now building a new bike on an old steel frame. I purchased a campagnolo groupset with 170mm crankset. The difference from 172.5 is minimal but...who knows. What makes me angry about those pains is that I can't join long rides with my friends, even if I have enough training.
@@mm-ew5df I remembered there was a video about neck pain at road cycling academy channel.. I will look if I can find it. Here it is.
ua-cam.com/video/q36DPGAHHjI/v-deo.html Maybe it's useful.
PS. I always ride solo. So I don't know the pain of not being able to ride with friends, but I know, that the neck and shoulder pain, is really bad and annoying. I hope you get it solved. :)
What’s Neils’s watch?
What is the net weight of this bike?
He's good isn't he!
What are your thoughts about the new Speedco Handlebars?
No experiences here Luuk, sorry.
@@CamNicholls the new one with no stem, they look very weird. Made with bear cycling team
What does "relatively" really mean? How does someone know what is normal for shoulder width? Any guidelines?
If your mates call you 'Big Steve', you've probably got wide shoulders. If your mates call you 'Little Steve', you've probably got narrow shoulders. If they call you just Steve, you're 'normal'. 👍🏽
@@leroy_who :-) OK, point well taken. (Assuming my friends are relatively normal sized, lol)
@@steveransom8134 haha, yes good point! 👌🏽
Is this the same concept with mtb?
If a narrow bar could be a problem, why do ultra-endurance cyclists use aero bars without issues? Those must have an effective width of about 12cm.
Years of training and conditioning, gradually training their bodies into tolerating the more cramped position.
narrower handlebars can also affect sprint performance.
Wait, what happened to the SMP on the BMC?
haha! More to come on that. Just playing around with a SQ labs as a trial, which isn't on the bike in this vid.
@@CamNicholls really enjoying your videos with Neill. Went to 165 cranks and can’t believe it took me this long to switch. Still having issues with my neck and the cleats are getting some attention but the new video may offer some clues. With the virus raging here in the US, my go to fitting guy is closed until further notice. So it’s me and the trusty tool box working on improving the comfort part of riding.
@@mannysamaniego702 what made you decide to go with smaller crank? What size was the previous crank?
@@JitinMisra rode 172.5mm (one of my bikes still has them). But read some about it and then followed Cam’s videos and his thoughts. I decided to give it a try and the first few minutes it did feel a bit different but about 20 mins in, no issues. I have noticed it more on hills, the spinning does help. Again, this is just my humble opinion. So far, very happy with the change.
Not gonna lie, I chose my handlebars based on being attached to the bicycle upon its purchase.
Thanks for sharing on the thread mate.
Thank you for guys - been using 44cm for years now and realised my arms are converging - might need to go for 46 next time or even 48? Wide shoulders. 188cm/105kg guy with a 198cm reach (yes stupidly long arms).
can he answer some questions here too?
No but he will in the feature. Stay tuned.
There's the handlebar munchkin who thinks hes a doctor! 😂👍
Smaller than it appeared in the photo
I guess I'm only person using 44 cm bars lol
I recently switched to 44cm and I wish I would have done it years ago lol.
It seems like 44cm bars are the most common for larger tall person frames. I'm tall so Ive always had 44 that came with my bike but my shoulders are narrow so I'm going smaller.
@@daryl4841 try 42
What about flat bars? Yes, some of us use them.
First comment ✌🏽
Anyone know what bike is in the background? (the black aero bike?)
I have a 42 Roval Rapide and end up with shoulder pain (upwards of 80km rides), I’m broad shouldered and only ever so slightly flared outward. Is this because of the bars being too wide?
I have elbow pains when using a 42 handlebar, and find myself turning my wrist inside to a narrower position, even though I have 44 cm shoulders. My brother's 40 cm is much more comfortable, and it didn't make any sense to me until he talked about valgus elbows, which I have!
Thanks for sharing Serigo, interesting to hear
I have been riding 42cm bars for decades, but I recently started having shoulder pains. I did some research and decided to try narrower 38 cm bars; voila! shoulder pain gone. I am a slightly built guy and probably should have always been using narrow bars - it took old age for bad ergonomics to catch up with me.
@@H457ur Same thing here. My upper body is now slightly twisted as it learned to compensate for excess width.
Modern hoods extend a good inch or more farther than old simple brake levers, and fit near level across the top of bars, the far more ergonomically improved setup; but this almost necessitated the evolution of shorter reach bars, to keep from overextending on the hoods.
Have to agree when in doubt a touch wide is always better for comfort, breathing and control.
For me 42 is spot on for my shoulder width but I vastly prefer 44. After spending a couple yrs on a 16 degree flare on the gravel bike, I am considering a 10-degree flare for the road. It's just more comfortable and with my hyper flexible back they function like a deeper drop. They also offer more stability decending
I recently built up a vintage Ti road bike and had some spare “gravel” bars sitting around with 12 degree flare. Decided to give them a try as I’ve come to love the 20-24 degree flare on my off-road oriented gravel bike. Turns out the flared bars are amazing on a road bike. I can stay in the drops indefinitely with no wrist pain and have better control. Not going back.
Cam, I may have misunderstood, but what was the big announcement your were talking about in the beginning? Or is that part of another video. Cheers
Stay tuned Christiane, yet to be announced.
Neill's basically my main bike fit mentor, virtually anyway. In addition to the Ergonova recommend, my all time favorite budget bar is the FSA Wing Pro compact. I've got really wide palms thought not very flexible at the hips, so I don't want a deeper drop and this bar just works perfectly. The shoulder of the bar are have nice round radius that allow for smooth cable routing. Also the ovalized top is angled back just right. All-time fav, now discontinued apparently.
For me the tops are kind of useless. Never ride in them, uncomfortable, not efficient. It just feels wrong...
“the hoods feel much better these days” yeah maybe if you have big hands, but I prefer the feel of my old early 80’s Campy or Dura-Ace 7400 hoods over my modern Shimano 9170 hoods .. my 9170 hoods are just too fat and I feel like I have less control of the bike out of the saddle, and the wide 9170’s will cramp my hands after a while .. but I have pretty small hands for a guy. To each his own I guess. Great discussion 👍
What point in the process is it best to start swapping bars over? Should I get the reach (stem length) and stack height sorted out first?
Miguel Indurain made shallow drops relevant
3:33 is swag on 3000%
Hi Neil, im curious of stem lenght, with bike handling what size stem would you start from?
I love riding and training on a fixed bike and discovered it is the best bar testing bike before I go all in on the install with my road or gravel bike. I’ve gone through a good number of bars, and have dialed that in pretty nicely.
when measuring the drops do you us centre to centre or the top of the bar to the bottom, thanks
Great stuff!
Great info, what about sprinters Vs climbers, does it make sense for sprinters to have slightly wider bars for leverage or narrower for aero?
Great Q, I'll need to position that with Neill during one of our next chats.
When I tried a very narrow (36 cm c/c) bar it felt really good when seated but if I came out of the saddle for climbing or to sprint it felt really unstable, there simply wasn’t enough leverage. Went up a size and it was way better.
@@darrellvarley1765 Precisely..
FSA compact bars also great. Same drop feel as the 3T ergonova.
Cam and Neill - This entire series is SO helpful. After 20 years out of the saddle, doing my part to raise our kids - your series has helped me get back in gear and setup. Can't say enough about this. It is such a positive resource. Wish I lived in Australia to buy you both a coffee. Realistic advice and results are coming. Fan-f-ing-tastic!
3T Ergonova FTW
I reckon!