I'm a tall and broad rider. I noticed as in previous video I was heavy on my arms...numb Gooch and pins and needles in my Wang. Also my quads were overloading. With the suggestion of putting the seat right back/tilting forward slightly and then adjusting by 5mm every 20 mins ride... I found my comfort zone in all areas... Thanks invaluable advice and information 👍🏼
Q: "Why would you want to tilt your saddle up?" A: "You wouldn't" (pause ...) A: "Unless you're riding a Brooks" The reason I clicked on here was that as a recent purchaser of a Brooks saddle, I find it most comfortable with a slight uptilt. Thanks for letting me know I'm quite normal!
100% correct about Brooks saddles. I have one on my mtb and I just bought one for my road bike and they are more comfortable tilted back, but also if you get the standard leather Brooks saddles they are slippery as hell so if you have it tilted down you are for sure going to keep sliding forward. With that said I've always tilted my saddles back. It just helps me sit on the widest part of the saddle and keep in that position so i have the most support.
I've always been curious where to place the level on the saddle. This video definitely answered that question. Great content, thank you for putting this together for us. 👍
A MASSIVE thank you to both of you. Neil, I bought an SMP Drakon saddle a couple of years ago. My understanding was that the rear of the saddle should be level with the front. Well, I'm after destroying countless chamois, countless sores, and always had numbness in my fingers. Last week I adjusted the saddle tilt downwards in front by a width of a finger. All I can say is WOW. Game changer!!! No numbness in fingers, saddle so comfortable, and I can ride indoors 3hrs+ without any sores. So again, Neil, thank YOU so much. What a channel, what content you both provide. Thanks again!!!
Returned to cycling after a decade or more. 35 kgs ago the saddle / bike was at one. Struggling ever since last year. Multiple saddles. No change on height yet weight onto the hands. Never had that. Realise weight impact but this video is excellent. Just ordered a SMP now. £54. Reviews are good. I’m hoping this will change the comfort as it’s ruining the rides. Although shook of 10 kgs now. Thank you for keeping it simple too !!
Massive thank yous, to both you and Neil for these fantastically informative videos, they are gold....! Two of his suggestions has already paid me back in spades, saddle height and tilt, the genius is using the level at the front part of the saddle, where it is flat. Right from the first ride, it felt so much more comfortable and I felt my pelvis roll naturally and it felt very stable. Such a tiny thing, I used to use my level over the entire length of the saddle and it never felt right, now, it feels like I am welded into my fit, and that alone takes so much stress of the rest of me. Shout youse a beer next time I'mon the Sunny...!
Hi sir Hi sir could you help me the exact size of road bike and my height is 5'3" or 160cm. As of now in have the twiiter road bike 48cm size but the top tube size is 53cm is too long and it is aggressive very aero could please help me the exact size
I'm watching your whole video series about adjusting the saddle height and now tilt and realised that I got exactly the 612 Ergowave active mentioned. It is awesome. My mistake was that it requires to be tilted a _bit_ (1-2 degrees) backwards for greater comfort and it stacks up higher then a normal saddle does (0.5-1cm), but using the tips about slowly going lower with the saddle and a bit more back, it is now super comfortable.
Thanks for all the info, very insightful! Recently had a fit and changed to a Romin Evo, for various reasons my fit was split over two sessions but I had the saddle set to around 1.5 degrees downward tilt and got on really well with it, nice even spread of pressure and felt good. Fitter proceeded to tell me I set it up wrong in 2nd session and it should be 3* downward tilt... OK I thought, fair enough. The first few weeks after it just felt wrong, uncomfortable, felt like I was falling off the front, quads burning AND started getting sores. Eventually had enough and set it back to 1.5* and INSTANTLY felt better. He improved the rest of my fit, everything else felt more comfortable and just nicer but actually a tad annoyed he just changed it without considering me, ya know, the person sat on the thing! :D Keep up the good videos btw. :)
Had exactly the same thing, I've persevered for a long time but after reading this I may put it back slightly. Same as you though, the bike fit solved a lot of problems
I have a similar Selle SMP saddle on my gravel bike. I decided to drop the bars and tweak the seat position to get a feel a bit more like my road bike. The seat just was not quite there. Tried the finger under the level thing in the video and it suggested I had the nose too low. Tilted it so the nose as up sufficiently for the finger gap to put the level horizontal and it rides much better.
Thank you Cam. These bike fit videos are great. I’m messing with my position and saddle tilt is what Ive been adjusting recently. I finally got my seat height, and seat for and aft. Now I’m messing with the tilt. Nice to hear from this guy so I understand what adjustments I need to make. Love these. Keep em coming.
Also Cam, I’ve been messing with my lever position so that I can rest my forearms on the bar as my hands hold the hoods. I believe it was Mathew Vanderpole who tilts his levers inward. I did that and its much more comfortable having the levers tilt inward. Now I’m messing with the reach of the levers. I got my seat height and for/aft position on the seat set thanks to your videos. What do you and your bike fit buddy think about tilting levers inward.
After years of fiddling I’ve got it nailed for me. I use a spirit level and a 10mm Allen key. One end of the level sits just where the up curve at the back of the saddle takes off. The other end of the level sits on the Allen key which I place about an inch back from the nose of the saddle. When I’ve centred the bubble, I’ve hit my “saddle tilt sweetspot”. I use a similar approach to helping my friends. We go out for a ride then adjust to feel. With a range of Allen keys or other known size chocks we can dial in and have something that can be reproduced on other bikes. If a friend brings a new bike in to have his saddle set he just tells me its “an 8mm Allen key” or whatever his measurement was. Just remember to keep the bike on a horizontal floor when doing this!
The SMP saddle (Dynamic) is not allowing you to "roll pelvis forward more." Rather, it is holding your pelvis rolled forward more, and by virtue of the larger cut out, making it more comfortable to hold this anteroversion more comfortably. This means your lumbar spine will be in a more neutral (i.e., straight position), which in turn will also reduce the need to flex your cervical spine (i.e. neck) back in extension. Some people will not find the SMP comfortable because they relieve pressure on the perineum by constantly rolling their pelvis back and forth and moving front to back in order to adjust the load on their hands. SMP does not allow you to slide back and forth so much, and you'll really feel this going down a steep descent. You're locked in, but well supported. It is a different style of riding and for sprinting, or crit riding, I can see why one would prefer a flat saddle, if their flexibility is good and they are used to riding with a low position, by moving around on the saddle. I have ridden both and think the strongest pro in favour of SMP is that it can allow for a very fine adjustment of balance (i.e., pressure on the handlebars) because it supports the entire pelvis. But you could also relieve some pressure on the hands on a flat saddle by sliding back.
Absolutely love my SQ Labs saddle. I used to get numb all the time, I have over 2200 miles on my SQ this includes a lot of seated indoor rides, and haven't gotten numb once.
Hi to all, just an observation, I had numbness in my perineal pressure so I put some degrees forward to the seat and buy and an aero handlebar where my hands had more surface to stand on. It change it all, no perineal or wrist numbness, but had to strength my shoulders. Thanks for your videos.
Great video. I replaced my saddle a couple of days ago and I kept sliding forward on my first ride. I watched this for proper setup and got the general idea. Despite have a level right next to my bicycle in the garage, I eyeballed it instead and took it out for a short ride to check. It was oh-so-close...I wasn't sliding forward but it felt like the nose was just slightly high, despite the nose appearing to be slightly below level. Which way to adjust? So...LOL, time for the level! Contrary to appearances, the nose was in fact slightly above level. I adjusted it to level and it feels about right. A long ride or two will surely allow me to dial it in further, should any minute adjustments be necessary.
Loads of value out of these. Thanks for putting them out! So much value I just booked a bike fit with a UK fitter under the Steve Hogg umbrella. That sounds bad, but I'm not sure I expect to sort my bike out just by watching these. They basically made me appreciate the potential value of a professional bike fit.
man I am so grateful for your expertise! With time passed I got used to numb hands, overworked quads and sore lower back. You are absolutely right .....there is no set up that fits all as there is no size that fits all. The exception proof the rule. I adjusted the saddle tilt to a level position as well as 1 cm to the front. The effect was amazing. The hands are no longer numb, even after 3 hours on the track, a lot of load and thus fatigued was transferred to the hamstrings. And the best thing of all is, it does not cost any money, yet the bike has become the bike I always wanted it to be.
Super helpful, I've been search for a comfortable saddle. I have a Selle similar to the shape on the right and after watching this video I was able to adjust it correctly and now it feels much more comfortable. Thanks for the information!!
This video was a game changer for me, introducing me to the Selle SMP Dynamic saddle. I am really impressed with Neill's pragmatic and analytical approach to fit and bike position.
finally a video where he grazes the topic of perineum pressure. I actually got a tear towards my left side while riding a power saddle a few weeks ago and have barely been able to walk and wondering what my options to alleviate the inevitable soreness are likely going to be once I can ride again.
Glad I saw this video. I have a new SMP Well S and I am in a trial and error stage of setting the angle. The official SMP website says it has to be levelled! Damn so my feeling was right that it is unlikely that I would leave it like that 😅
Try tightening the bolts in small increments. Tighten the one a half turn, then tighten the other one a half turn and repeat until both are equally tight.
Got myself an SMP Drakon about 6 years ago and from the first moment I was a massive fan. Fitted it according to the instructions and it was dead on immediately. After this I went on to buy the dynamic which has less padding. Dynamic now on my road bike and Drakon on my MTB. Started cycling with our son last year, and to try to get him as comfortable as possible on the bike I got him a Drakon as well. Again, the Drakon was a slam dunk. Got a SQlab, forgot the model now, on a trekking bike and that was for me one of the worst saddles ever. Also changed it for an SMP and it again made a world of difference. I don’t particularly like the design of the SMP saddles, but quite frankly - when they’re this comfy I don’t care what they look like anymore..
In my opinion, saddle tilt and position should be set for optimal comfort “under heavy load”, not just a casual (upright) spin. I try and get my saddle dialed mostly for climbing, so I’m not falling off the back of it... and then find a balance for when I’m in an aero position trying to maintain top end speed.
Hi Cam, a digital angle meter is a great addition to any tool kit. They are peanuts online. For anything on the bike you can put a straight edge across the axles and zero the meter on that, then go to work using the meter. This takes away the worry of leveling the bike on the floor etc and allows for micro adjustments in fractions of a mm. 😉
@@thedownunderverse I use a Johnson 1435-1000D Digital Torpedo Level, atop a piece of straight 1x4 about 12" long (to span from nose to tail of the saddle and across the rear of the saddle): www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q1DM1M6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Much more accurate than the "finger under the level" method, though if you want the nose of the saddle level you'll have to figure out how much to compensate. Incidentally, if you want to check if a level is out of whack, measure a surface like a kitchen counter and then reverse the level nose to tail on the same surface and see if you get the same angle. In fact this is how the Johnson Digital Level calibrates itself.
@@johnkempler3792 put the bike on the ground, it is now level to the surface the wheels are on. Take a long builders level or equivalent straight edge and hold it against the axles, so that the top edge is a close to centre as possible. It’s not too hard. You might want someone to support the bike whilst you do it, I manage on my own. Good luck!
Love your videos. Wish I could get a fit with Neil… I had a Retul one and it doesn’t feel right. It’s immediately apparent that Neil is an absolute master of everything bike fit.
That playlist idea was a great one! Thanks! Super helpful series it isn't a substitute for a pro bike fit but I ve had a few pro bike fits and people still need the knowledge to understand their body / bike. My tarmacs seat post drops slowly all the time so understanding that if my knee is hurting it might have dropped to far. I d personally love to see determining reach / Hood position and angle. But as a body of work I think you will need to add a video on the order of settings e.g. Set cleats first then saddle height next and then the bringing together or interrelation of biomechanics e. G. Saddle height up / down by 1cm is 3mm fore aft etc... Thanks again!
How about a show on saddle width? So many models come in multiple widths, now. I just bought a bike with a Bontrager Verse Pro. It came with the 145 mm wide seat. It seems way too wide and bumps me forward with every pedal stroke. I guess I should go down to the 135mm. Great explanation on how to adjust the new style saddle that is flat in front w/ a slight rise in the back.
Is there a video coming up on the topic "how to set your handlebar height" ??? Very Awesome series you're doing here. Thanks to Mr. Stanbury for for educating us.
Cinelli Unicanitor saddle can do that.. you can ride on the back of it and take almost all pressure of the front of your "regions". Great saddle that was designed years ago!
The weird case of someone who is worse with a waved saddle was me. The solution I found was a flat, but much wider saddle. With the waved saddle's front level, I kept shifting to the wider swept up area for more support. This made me feel like I was slipping due to that extreme angle. Tilting it back so I sat better on that rear part meant the nose jabbed at me over a ride.
@@lacount91 just bought a canyon grail on and the fizik saddle is crap. I have no Problems riding my vintage road bikes with hard small flat saddles, maybe it works for u too. :)
Another good vid Cam & Neill. I started using the Pro Stealth saddle after suffering from numbness during rides. (Mainly during longer climbs whilst staying in the saddle) It’s a great saddle, I highly recommend giving one a go. Cheers- Leroy.
Might sound a bit odd but the Giant Comfort saddle from Velo on my 1994 Yukon which was stock issue is fine for me on short to medium distance rides . The range of saddles now is mind boggling . I have my saddle slightly nose up due to the curvature of my pelvis & the fact that my handlebar clamping point is higher than the saddle top . Sometimes your body grows accustomed to a saddle over time .
True, I selected a widely praised Phenom (now Spezcialized), and was a bit disappointed when couldn't notice much difference with my stock saddle, except the new one was a bit harder and had a slot in the middle. It's all good because the old one was too worn out anyway, but I suppose that average saddles are already quite good for most people.
I have always felt like I was slipping forward just slightly and had a lot of pressure on my hands. Just made a slight tweak and hope this may help. Should know with one good trainer session that's at least an hour long.
Very interesting - I had so much discomfort before getting an SMP saddle. Made the world of difference. Now I can go and enjoy my rides instead of dreading the pain afterwards!
@Kelso 66 I look at the rails when adjusting the saddle, the rails need to be level or leaning slightly upward. It feels a little weird the first couple of rides but is great in the long run. I had undercarriage pain which was gone after putting this saddle on. I think there’s also a guide on their website about how to adjust their saddles, it’s always a bit trial and error!
I tried the Prologo Dimension 145mm, Selle Italia SLR boost superflow and the Selle Italia Flight Boost superflow I found the Prologo was comfortable in all area's except the width at 145mm (I'm a smaller rider, 5'6") - I would get chaffing on my inner thighs with the Prologo. Rolling forward or on the drops was comfortable. I followed up with the Selle Italia SLR 130mm, this alleviated the chaffing because of the lack of width but when set up level, the slightly nose up shape would put pressure on tender bits/soft tissue when rolling forward or on the drops. If I angled the saddle down just a bit (or set the flat portion level) I felt as though I was sliding off the front of the seat and putting excessive weight on my hands. I finally settled on the Selle Italia Flight Boost 135mm. This is pretty much a flat version of he SLR with a bit more padding. This, so far has been the most comfortable for me. The extra padding is comfortable for sit bones, the width is good, no chaffing and the flatness allows me to roll forward without putting pressure in the frontal area/soft tissue area's. That's just what I found works for me. Definitely not a one saddle fits all ordeal, have to identify pressure points and work through each one. You'll eventually find one that works for most riding situations.
I was never truly comfortable on my bikes until I pointed the saddle down, curved shaped saddles only... Make sure the front part is flat, just confirmed on the video!
I've learned a lot from your bike fit videos and can't thank you enough for that. What I've REALLY learned is the value of a professional bike fit can not be underestimated! Which brings me to my question. Is there any certifying agency for "professional" bike fitters? It would be really nice to be able to access quality, certified advice for a bike fit without a lot of trial and error. BTW, I'm in the United States.
There are several certificates available. I also live in the US. Neil is a physiotherapist first if I remember correctly. I found a couple of PT’s in driving range, I am very happy with the results. It was cool he was able to identify all the things that don’t work the way they should, I am 60 years old.
Ha, was waiting for this. My two cents - Level... level.. level. Don't do it to yourself, your seat needs to be level. That means the flat part of the saddle, not a spirit level from tip to tail. If you tip the nose down, your decending becomes scary AF, when you brake, your weight slides forward on the saddle, loading the bars and you hit the railing you are suddenly staring at. A great bike fit means you are balanced on the bike, you will notice how fast and confidently you descend. If descending is sketchy and scary, your bike fit is bad. When doing a fit, worry about two dimensions seat height and layback, don't add the third dimension of tilt, it will drive you f*ing nuts, trust me. Set the saddle level, then worry about seat height and layback. If your fit is correct, a level saddle will be right. If you feel you need tilt, your bike fit is wrong i.e. saddle height / layback. 99% of the time, it is not the tilt, it is the height or layback. Also, a level flat saddle enables movement on the saddle, i.e. when climbing moving back, when powering on the flat moving forward. If the tilt is not level, this becomes a nightmare. I like a lot of what Neal says, but SMP's encourage a one position riding style which tends to work for steady state endurance but not so much for punchy racing. Also, moving around on the saddle is great for pressure relief, so using a SMP on a trainer will send your soft tissue to sleep as it holds you firm in one spot. I envy anyone who got on a bike and has never had saddle issues. I've spent 5 years with some kind of saddle pain, seen Steve Hogg, tried 15+ different seats until only the last three months when I've finally nailed position and the right saddle for me. Great vids Cam and kudos to Neil for being a good sport.
I agree level . After 60 years its level. Broken back demands level. A tiny slip up or down causes serious misery for my back. Plus it allows for better balance . Stops other issues like neck, shoulder pains. Proper fit , you ride more. I'm at 900"consecutive days and near 38 k. Ride on!
I've been very happy with my old, very used flat arione saddles for years. Trying 2 expensive SMPs now. So far, I feel they are more restrictive. We all move forward in the drops when big chainringing in the flats for long stretches.
@@oftenwrongphong Yep, Look at anyone getting low on the flat pushing power and they are almost on the nose of the saddle. Moving aorund on a saddle is the norm.
The day this video popped up a few weeks ago my seat from SMP had just arrived (thanks to your previous vid) and I was staring at my bike wondering if I would ruin the fit by changing it. Perfectly timed! Thanks so much for the insights. I changed it but ended up seeing my bike fitter a few days later for minor adjustments. I went with the SMP F30C. It's small and able to slide around a bit. Sincerely appreciate your videos Cam. Cheers!
Meanwhile, the bike in the background has a saddle that's slightly nose up :) Kidding. This is priceless information. I'm riding on a Bontrager Verse Comp, and I'm still trying to figure out how to get this saddle balanced. It tapers down from the front to the back the whole way, so there are not really any "flat" areas of the saddle. It's hard to get the "front half of the seat flat" because of this reason. I'm having a hard time finding a good place to set the level while measuring.
Amazing series! Great content Cam and thanks a lot for sharing this kind of information. There aren’t many bike fitters where I live and this videos have been life savers.
Just watched the series, and lowered my seat. I'd been tilting the seat way too forward because having it level was painful, and that was probably because my seat was too high, causing much pain. If that doesn't work, I'll be ordering one of those seats he mentioned.
Interesting that he discussed seat angle and shape extensively, but not seat width. A few years ago I was experiencing pain and chafing in my sits bones area especially on my right side, which is my stronger leg. My fitter checked my sits bones width and recommended a woman's design saddle that was simply wider. Problem solved and I hardly ever experience discomfort anymore. I wish he would have shared his views on seat width and where the sits bones and pelvis should land.
I noticed your comment regarding the Brooks seat, seems odd to locate a Brooks up in the front as when the springs settle under the rider's weight, this will only exacerbate things. I use a B67 seat and set it up as follows; Use a dead flat surface, line the seat's front up level and then move the seat slightly down in the front although still keeping the level's bubble between the lines although at the edge of one line. This compensates for rider's weight to provide a level seat position when tightened and sat on although allows the rear curved portion of the seat to rise up to meet the sit bones.
Great video. I did a 100 mile ride a few weeks back and some areas of my man section are still a little numb now! I have a selle Italia gel flow but seriously considering a new saddle!
I think it is a personal preference. I like my seat slightly tilted forward so my bottom bones rest on the back cushions of the seat and the nose of the seat does'nt put much pressure on the pelvic floor.
Very useful info, thank you. How about a video explaining butt position on the saddle when riding uphill, downhill and sprinting? Why / how do triathletes and climbers get more power while riding on the rivet (on the nose of the saddle)? I’ve tried it, and my power decreases.
I love GCN but finding your videos, vlogs superior in information and I'm learnign stuff from 'The' bike fitter Neil, keep it going Cam, great content.
Great video as always! Neill is that cool uncle everybody wants to talk to during Christmas dinner! What do you or Neill think of Ergon saddles? They did wonders for me!
I tilted my seat up, and quite amazingly my hamstrings started engaging. A ride that would normally annihilate me feels easy now. Everyone is different.
Once again another informative video. Interesting to see him briefly mention the Brooks saddles as a few of the guys here ride them as they’re keen Audax riders. A quick question: how do you find the right saddle without buying heaps of wrong ones first?
ISM saddles have a wide slot and open nose that avoids the problem of pressure on the perineum. Some people think ISM saddles look weird. SMP saddles, which also has a wide slot, avoids the weird appearence by simply sloping the nose down and away from the crotch before closing the nose. Don't let the downward sloping nose confuse you. As a starting point, the middle of ISM saddle should be level. IN MY OPINION!!! (I've used both.)
I genuinely can't believe you give this info away for free..
This series with Neill has been so unbelievably helpful.
couldnt agree more, so much good information its amazing.
You can always make a donation to clear your conscience
Nothing is free. If you’re not paying for a product, you are the product ;)
@@thedownunderverse someone watched the social dilemma 😂😂
Nothing is for free. UA-cam pay them if you watch video.
I'm a tall and broad rider. I noticed as in previous video I was heavy on my arms...numb Gooch and pins and needles in my Wang. Also my quads were overloading. With the suggestion of putting the seat right back/tilting forward slightly and then adjusting by 5mm every 20 mins ride... I found my comfort zone in all areas... Thanks invaluable advice and information 👍🏼
Why dont you use the rails to level or adjust the seat?
Sometimes when you put a saddle back on the rails a fair way , the rails can deform & or crack .
Not a reply, just supporting the use of the word 'wang'.
@@michaelsingh843 f ml😊
I have same problem, even bikefit didn't solve my problem 😊
Q: "Why would you want to tilt your saddle up?"
A: "You wouldn't"
(pause ...)
A: "Unless you're riding a Brooks"
The reason I clicked on here was that as a recent purchaser of a Brooks saddle, I find it most comfortable with a slight uptilt. Thanks for letting me know I'm quite normal!
100% correct about Brooks saddles. I have one on my mtb and I just bought one for my road bike and they are more comfortable tilted back, but also if you get the standard leather Brooks saddles they are slippery as hell so if you have it tilted down you are for sure going to keep sliding forward. With that said I've always tilted my saddles back. It just helps me sit on the widest part of the saddle and keep in that position so i have the most support.
13:13 just got one and what a difference !!! cycling for 35 years and it is the first time a fell really good on a saddle. THANKS !!!
Yeah! I use this saddle for all my bikes! It´s freaking amazing!
I've always been curious where to place the level on the saddle. This video definitely answered that question. Great content, thank you for putting this together for us. 👍
A MASSIVE thank you to both of you. Neil, I bought an SMP Drakon saddle a couple of years ago. My understanding was that the rear of the saddle should be level with the front. Well, I'm after destroying countless chamois, countless sores, and always had numbness in my fingers. Last week I adjusted the saddle tilt downwards in front by a width of a finger. All I can say is WOW. Game changer!!! No numbness in fingers, saddle so comfortable, and I can ride indoors 3hrs+ without any sores. So again, Neil, thank YOU so much. What a channel, what content you both provide. Thanks again!!!
Returned to cycling after a decade or more. 35 kgs ago the saddle / bike was at one. Struggling ever since last year. Multiple saddles. No change on height yet weight onto the hands. Never had that. Realise weight impact but this video is excellent. Just ordered a SMP now. £54. Reviews are good. I’m hoping this will change the comfort as it’s ruining the rides. Although shook of 10 kgs now. Thank you for keeping it simple too !!
Lots of value out of these videos. Thanks for making them!
👍
I agree 👍
Just what I was looking for - many thanks for the tips. Been experiencing numbness after riding.
Massive thank yous, to both you and Neil for these fantastically informative videos, they are gold....! Two of his suggestions has already paid me back in spades, saddle height and tilt, the genius is using the level at the front part of the saddle, where it is flat. Right from the first ride, it felt so much more comfortable and I felt my pelvis roll naturally and it felt very stable. Such a tiny thing, I used to use my level over the entire length of the saddle and it never felt right, now, it feels like I am welded into my fit, and that alone takes so much stress of the rest of me.
Shout youse a beer next time I'mon the Sunny...!
Hi sir
Hi sir could you help me the exact size of road bike and my height is 5'3" or 160cm.
As of now in have the twiiter road bike 48cm size but the top tube size is 53cm is too long and it is aggressive very aero could please help me the exact size
This information is spot on, and it’s amazing how the slightest adjustment on the tilt up/down affect comfort.
I'm watching your whole video series about adjusting the saddle height and now tilt and realised that I got exactly the 612 Ergowave active mentioned. It is awesome. My mistake was that it requires to be tilted a _bit_ (1-2 degrees) backwards for greater comfort and it stacks up higher then a normal saddle does (0.5-1cm), but using the tips about slowly going lower with the saddle and a bit more back, it is now super comfortable.
just bought a Brooks saddle. Unreal comfort
Thanks for all the info, very insightful! Recently had a fit and changed to a Romin Evo, for various reasons my fit was split over two sessions but I had the saddle set to around 1.5 degrees downward tilt and got on really well with it, nice even spread of pressure and felt good. Fitter proceeded to tell me I set it up wrong in 2nd session and it should be 3* downward tilt... OK I thought, fair enough. The first few weeks after it just felt wrong, uncomfortable, felt like I was falling off the front, quads burning AND started getting sores. Eventually had enough and set it back to 1.5* and INSTANTLY felt better. He improved the rest of my fit, everything else felt more comfortable and just nicer but actually a tad annoyed he just changed it without considering me, ya know, the person sat on the thing! :D Keep up the good videos btw. :)
Had exactly the same thing, I've persevered for a long time but after reading this I may put it back slightly. Same as you though, the bike fit solved a lot of problems
I have a similar Selle SMP saddle on my gravel bike. I decided to drop the bars and tweak the seat position to get a feel a bit more like my road bike. The seat just was not quite there. Tried the finger under the level thing in the video and it suggested I had the nose too low. Tilted it so the nose as up sufficiently for the finger gap to put the level horizontal and it rides much better.
Thank you Cam. These bike fit videos are great. I’m messing with my position and saddle tilt is what Ive been adjusting recently. I finally got my seat height, and seat for and aft. Now I’m messing with the tilt. Nice to hear from this guy so I understand what adjustments I need to make. Love these. Keep em coming.
👍
Also Cam, I’ve been messing with my lever position so that I can rest my forearms on the bar as my hands hold the hoods. I believe it was Mathew Vanderpole who tilts his levers inward. I did that and its much more comfortable having the levers tilt inward. Now I’m messing with the reach of the levers. I got my seat height and for/aft position on the seat set thanks to your videos. What do you and your bike fit buddy think about tilting levers inward.
Neil makes all FIT issues easy to understand and he alsocome sacross as very genuine and thoughtful about the advice he is providing.
Excellent discussion! This guy is so good.
I’ve got two bikes, both with different saddle profiles. I’ll be tweaking them both this weekend! Thanks for the video, very helpful.
My mates always give me a hard time for the saddle tilt I have but anything less hurts the soft bits, this is the video I was looking for.
After years of fiddling I’ve got it nailed for me. I use a spirit level and a 10mm Allen key. One end of the level sits just where the up curve at the back of the saddle takes off. The other end of the level sits on the Allen key which I place about an inch back from the nose of the saddle. When I’ve centred the bubble, I’ve hit my “saddle tilt sweetspot”. I use a similar approach to helping my friends. We go out for a ride then adjust to feel. With a range of Allen keys or other known size chocks we can dial in and have something that can be reproduced on other bikes. If a friend brings a new bike in to have his saddle set he just tells me its “an 8mm Allen key” or whatever his measurement was. Just remember to keep the bike on a horizontal floor when doing this!
The SMP saddle (Dynamic) is not allowing you to "roll pelvis forward more." Rather, it is holding your pelvis rolled forward more, and by virtue of the larger cut out, making it more comfortable to hold this anteroversion more comfortably. This means your lumbar spine will be in a more neutral (i.e., straight position), which in turn will also reduce the need to flex your cervical spine (i.e. neck) back in extension. Some people will not find the SMP comfortable because they relieve pressure on the perineum by constantly rolling their pelvis back and forth and moving front to back in order to adjust the load on their hands. SMP does not allow you to slide back and forth so much, and you'll really feel this going down a steep descent. You're locked in, but well supported.
It is a different style of riding and for sprinting, or crit riding, I can see why one would prefer a flat saddle, if their flexibility is good and they are used to riding with a low position, by moving around on the saddle.
I have ridden both and think the strongest pro in favour of SMP is that it can allow for a very fine adjustment of balance (i.e., pressure on the handlebars) because it supports the entire pelvis. But you could also relieve some pressure on the hands on a flat saddle by sliding back.
Been loving these Neill collab videos. I'm hoping you two don't run out of things to talk about any time soon!
Absolutely love my SQ Labs saddle. I used to get numb all the time, I have over 2200 miles on my SQ this includes a lot of seated indoor rides, and haven't gotten numb once.
What SQ Labs seat do you use @pauleichner8831
What a goldmine of a video! I wish I had seen this 15 years ago!
Hi to all, just an observation, I had numbness in my perineal pressure so I put some degrees forward to the seat and buy and an aero handlebar where my hands had more surface to stand on. It change it all, no perineal or wrist numbness, but had to strength my shoulders.
Thanks for your videos.
Great video. I replaced my saddle a couple of days ago and I kept sliding forward on my first ride. I watched this for proper setup and got the general idea. Despite have a level right next to my bicycle in the garage, I eyeballed it instead and took it out for a short ride to check. It was oh-so-close...I wasn't sliding forward but it felt like the nose was just slightly high, despite the nose appearing to be slightly below level. Which way to adjust?
So...LOL, time for the level! Contrary to appearances, the nose was in fact slightly above level. I adjusted it to level and it feels about right. A long ride or two will surely allow me to dial it in further, should any minute adjustments be necessary.
Loads of value out of these. Thanks for putting them out! So much value I just booked a bike fit with a UK fitter under the Steve Hogg umbrella. That sounds bad, but I'm not sure I expect to sort my bike out just by watching these. They basically made me appreciate the potential value of a professional bike fit.
Good stuff mate 👍 hope it goes well
What a great channel for setting up a bike.
man I am so grateful for your expertise! With time passed I got used to numb hands, overworked quads and sore lower back. You are absolutely right .....there is no set up that fits all as there is no size that fits all. The exception proof the rule. I adjusted the saddle tilt to a level position as well as 1 cm to the front. The effect was amazing. The hands are no longer numb, even after 3 hours on the track, a lot of load and thus fatigued was transferred to the hamstrings. And the best thing of all is, it does not cost any money, yet the bike has become the bike I always wanted it to be.
When it comes to getting your bike fitted to you Neil's advice imo cannot be bettered, Thanks
Super helpful, I've been search for a comfortable saddle. I have a Selle similar to the shape on the right and after watching this video I was able to adjust it correctly and now it feels much more comfortable. Thanks for the information!!
This video was a game changer for me, introducing me to the Selle SMP Dynamic saddle. I am really impressed with Neill's pragmatic and analytical approach to fit and bike position.
finally a video where he grazes the topic of perineum pressure. I actually got a tear towards my left side while riding a power saddle a few weeks ago and have barely been able to walk and wondering what my options to alleviate the inevitable soreness are likely going to be once I can ride again.
Ouch sorry to hear that Cody, maybe the SQ labs
Neill nailed it again!
All my road bikes have SQLabs saddles. Discovered them a few years ago. So comfy.
Glad I saw this video. I have a new SMP Well S and I am in a trial and error stage of setting the angle. The official SMP website says it has to be levelled! Damn so my feeling was right that it is unlikely that I would leave it like that 😅
The most difficult part for me is to maintain the forward-aft position and the tilt angle while tightening the bolts.
Seat clamps were designed by a sociopath.
Try tightening the bolts in small increments. Tighten the one a half turn, then tighten the other one a half turn and repeat until both are equally tight.
Got myself an SMP Drakon about 6 years ago and from the first moment I was a massive fan. Fitted it according to the instructions and it was dead on immediately. After this I went on to buy the dynamic which has less padding. Dynamic now on my road bike and Drakon on my MTB.
Started cycling with our son last year, and to try to get him as comfortable as possible on the bike I got him a Drakon as well. Again, the Drakon was a slam dunk.
Got a SQlab, forgot the model now, on a trekking bike and that was for me one of the worst saddles ever. Also changed it for an SMP and it again made a world of difference.
I don’t particularly like the design of the SMP saddles, but quite frankly - when they’re this comfy I don’t care what they look like anymore..
Used to play with saddle,adjustments. Broken back stopped that. Now with a level perfectly level . Tiny slip my back hurts.level works for me
In my opinion, saddle tilt and position should be set for optimal comfort “under heavy load”, not just a casual (upright) spin. I try and get my saddle dialed mostly for climbing, so I’m not falling off the back of it... and then find a balance for when I’m in an aero position trying to maintain top end speed.
I agree totally. If I spin very low power (let's say 80 watts and under), my bike is uncomfortable lol.
Hi Cam, a digital angle meter is a great addition to any tool kit. They are peanuts online. For anything on the bike you can put a straight edge across the axles and zero the meter on that, then go to work using the meter. This takes away the worry of leveling the bike on the floor etc and allows for micro adjustments in fractions of a mm. 😉
Thanks for sharing mate
Could you perhaps link to one as an example?
@@thedownunderverse I use a Johnson 1435-1000D Digital Torpedo Level, atop a piece of straight 1x4 about 12" long (to span from nose to tail of the saddle and across the rear of the saddle): www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q1DM1M6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Much more accurate than the "finger under the level" method, though if you want the nose of the saddle level you'll have to figure out how much to compensate.
Incidentally, if you want to check if a level is out of whack, measure a surface like a kitchen counter and then reverse the level nose to tail on the same surface and see if you get the same angle. In fact this is how the Johnson Digital Level calibrates itself.
How do you put straight edge on two axles?
@@johnkempler3792 put the bike on the ground, it is now level to the surface the wheels are on. Take a long builders level or equivalent straight edge and hold it against the axles, so that the top edge is a close to centre as possible. It’s not too hard. You might want someone to support the bike whilst you do it, I manage on my own. Good luck!
just put one of those SQ 612 saddles on my bike just to test it out. probably need to fine tune it, but it is ROCK hard
Interesting to hear, I will be reviewing an SQ lads saddle shortly
Love your videos. Wish I could get a fit with Neil… I had a Retul one and it doesn’t feel right. It’s immediately apparent that Neil is an absolute master of everything bike fit.
That playlist idea was a great one! Thanks! Super helpful series it isn't a substitute for a pro bike fit but I ve had a few pro bike fits and people still need the knowledge to understand their body / bike. My tarmacs seat post drops slowly all the time so understanding that if my knee is hurting it might have dropped to far. I d personally love to see determining reach / Hood position and angle. But as a body of work I think you will need to add a video on the order of settings e.g. Set cleats first then saddle height next and then the bringing together or interrelation of biomechanics e. G. Saddle height up / down by 1cm is 3mm fore aft etc... Thanks again!
The bike leaning against the wall has a LEVEL saddle, front to back!!!
How about a show on saddle width? So many models come in multiple widths, now. I just bought a bike with a Bontrager Verse Pro. It came with the 145 mm wide seat. It seems way too wide and bumps me forward with every pedal stroke. I guess I should go down to the 135mm. Great explanation on how to adjust the new style saddle that is flat in front w/ a slight rise in the back.
Is there a video coming up on the topic "how to set your handlebar height" ??? Very Awesome series you're doing here. Thanks to Mr. Stanbury for for educating us.
I’ll put it on the list and see discuss with Neill 👍
using the sq labs saddles for years now there are the best saddles on the market 👌👍
Thanks for sharing on the thread Glen.
Excellent seat details. Every biker needs to know this.
Some great info. I have changed some things just yesterday from these videos that have helped.
Cinelli Unicanitor saddle can do that.. you can ride on the back of it and take almost all pressure of the front of your "regions". Great saddle that was designed years ago!
Ergon medium large ! Level flat always ! Thank you !
What about saddle fore/aft?
The weird case of someone who is worse with a waved saddle was me. The solution I found was a flat, but much wider saddle. With the waved saddle's front level, I kept shifting to the wider swept up area for more support. This made me feel like I was slipping due to that extreme angle. Tilting it back so I sat better on that rear part meant the nose jabbed at me over a ride.
I have the same problem, I'm thinking on a flat saddle
@@lacount91 just bought a canyon grail on and the fizik saddle is crap. I have no Problems riding my vintage road bikes with hard small flat saddles, maybe it works for u too. :)
Another good vid Cam & Neill.
I started using the Pro Stealth saddle after suffering from numbness during rides. (Mainly during longer climbs whilst staying in the saddle) It’s a great saddle, I highly recommend giving one a go.
Cheers- Leroy.
Nice one Leroy, thanks for sharing on the thread. 👍
Might sound a bit odd but the Giant Comfort saddle from Velo on my 1994 Yukon which was stock issue is fine for me on short to medium distance rides . The range of saddles now is mind boggling . I have my saddle slightly nose up due to the curvature of my pelvis & the fact that my handlebar clamping point is higher than the saddle top . Sometimes your body grows accustomed to a saddle over time .
True, I selected a widely praised Phenom (now Spezcialized), and was a bit disappointed when couldn't notice much difference with my stock saddle, except the new one was a bit harder and had a slot in the middle.
It's all good because the old one was too worn out anyway, but I suppose that average saddles are already quite good for most people.
Love these series Cam!
I have always felt like I was slipping forward just slightly and had a lot of pressure on my hands. Just made a slight tweak and hope this may help. Should know with one good trainer session that's at least an hour long.
Very interesting - I had so much discomfort before getting an SMP saddle. Made the world of difference. Now I can go and enjoy my rides instead of dreading the pain afterwards!
I can't seem to get the position on my smp right, too frustrating so I shelved it. How did you go about setting it up?
@Kelso 66 I look at the rails when adjusting the saddle, the rails need to be level or leaning slightly upward. It feels a little weird the first couple of rides but is great in the long run. I had undercarriage pain which was gone after putting this saddle on. I think there’s also a guide on their website about how to adjust their saddles, it’s always a bit trial and error!
Liked, bell rung everything. Great value video Cam. Bang on!
👍
I tried the Prologo Dimension 145mm, Selle Italia SLR boost superflow and the Selle Italia Flight Boost superflow
I found the Prologo was comfortable in all area's except the width at 145mm (I'm a smaller rider, 5'6") - I would get chaffing on my inner thighs with the Prologo. Rolling forward or on the drops was comfortable.
I followed up with the Selle Italia SLR 130mm, this alleviated the chaffing because of the lack of width but when set up level, the slightly nose up shape would put pressure on tender bits/soft tissue when rolling forward or on the drops. If I angled the saddle down just a bit (or set the flat portion level) I felt as though I was sliding off the front of the seat and putting excessive weight on my hands.
I finally settled on the Selle Italia Flight Boost 135mm. This is pretty much a flat version of he SLR with a bit more padding. This, so far has been the most comfortable for me. The extra padding is comfortable for sit bones, the width is good, no chaffing and the flatness allows me to roll forward without putting pressure in the frontal area/soft tissue area's.
That's just what I found works for me. Definitely not a one saddle fits all ordeal, have to identify pressure points and work through each one. You'll eventually find one that works for most riding situations.
Thanks for sharing on the thread
I love saddle tilt - it works out great on my MTB, it does not work at all on my roadbike - and believe me I tried!
I was never truly comfortable on my bikes until I pointed the saddle down, curved shaped saddles only... Make sure the front part is flat, just confirmed on the video!
Thanks for sharing on the thread mate
I've learned a lot from your bike fit videos and can't thank you enough for that. What I've REALLY learned is the value of a professional bike fit can not be underestimated! Which brings me to my question. Is there any certifying agency for "professional" bike fitters? It would be really nice to be able to access quality, certified advice for a bike fit without a lot of trial and error. BTW, I'm in the United States.
There are several certificates available. I also live in the US. Neil is a physiotherapist first if I remember correctly. I found a couple of PT’s in driving range, I am very happy with the results. It was cool he was able to identify all the things that don’t work the way they should, I am 60 years old.
@@stanroberts229 Thanks so much for taking the time to reply! Compared to me you're 60 years YOUNG! 🤣
Best explained saddle correction video, I’ve seen, and have seen a lot. Thank you 👍 try it out on my brand new saddle!
Ha, was waiting for this. My two cents - Level... level.. level. Don't do it to yourself, your seat needs to be level. That means the flat part of the saddle, not a spirit level from tip to tail. If you tip the nose down, your decending becomes scary AF, when you brake, your weight slides forward on the saddle, loading the bars and you hit the railing you are suddenly staring at. A great bike fit means you are balanced on the bike, you will notice how fast and confidently you descend. If descending is sketchy and scary, your bike fit is bad.
When doing a fit, worry about two dimensions seat height and layback, don't add the third dimension of tilt, it will drive you f*ing nuts, trust me. Set the saddle level, then worry about seat height and layback. If your fit is correct, a level saddle will be right. If you feel you need tilt, your bike fit is wrong i.e. saddle height / layback. 99% of the time, it is not the tilt, it is the height or layback. Also, a level flat saddle enables movement on the saddle, i.e. when climbing moving back, when powering on the flat moving forward. If the tilt is not level, this becomes a nightmare.
I like a lot of what Neal says, but SMP's encourage a one position riding style which tends to work for steady state endurance but not so much for punchy racing. Also, moving around on the saddle is great for pressure relief, so using a SMP on a trainer will send your soft tissue to sleep as it holds you firm in one spot.
I envy anyone who got on a bike and has never had saddle issues. I've spent 5 years with some kind of saddle pain, seen Steve Hogg, tried 15+ different seats until only the last three months when I've finally nailed position and the right saddle for me. Great vids Cam and kudos to Neil for being a good sport.
So which saddle did you ultimately find that fit you best?
@@matthewcrich5951 Fizik Arione 'classic'
I agree level . After 60 years its level. Broken back demands level. A tiny slip up or down causes serious misery for my back. Plus it allows for better balance . Stops other issues like neck, shoulder pains. Proper fit , you ride more. I'm at 900"consecutive days and near 38 k. Ride on!
I've been very happy with my old, very used flat arione saddles for years. Trying 2 expensive SMPs now. So far, I feel they are more restrictive. We all move forward in the drops when big chainringing in the flats for long stretches.
@@oftenwrongphong Yep, Look at anyone getting low on the flat pushing power and they are almost on the nose of the saddle. Moving aorund on a saddle is the norm.
The day this video popped up a few weeks ago my seat from SMP had just arrived (thanks to your previous vid) and I was staring at my bike wondering if I would ruin the fit by changing it. Perfectly timed! Thanks so much for the insights. I changed it but ended up seeing my bike fitter a few days later for minor adjustments. I went with the SMP F30C. It's small and able to slide around a bit. Sincerely appreciate your videos Cam. Cheers!
Meanwhile, the bike in the background has a saddle that's slightly nose up :)
Kidding. This is priceless information. I'm riding on a Bontrager Verse Comp, and I'm still trying to figure out how to get this saddle balanced. It tapers down from the front to the back the whole way, so there are not really any "flat" areas of the saddle. It's hard to get the "front half of the seat flat" because of this reason. I'm having a hard time finding a good place to set the level while measuring.
New sub. Thanks you for these bike fit videos!!!!!
Great video Neil!! Good toy see you doing well
Amazing series! Great content Cam and thanks a lot for sharing this kind of information. There aren’t many bike fitters where I live and this videos have been life savers.
Just watched the series, and lowered my seat. I'd been tilting the seat way too forward because having it level was painful, and that was probably because my seat was too high, causing much pain. If that doesn't work, I'll be ordering one of those seats he mentioned.
Interesting that he discussed seat angle and shape extensively, but not seat width. A few years ago I was experiencing pain and chafing in my sits bones area especially on my right side, which is my stronger leg. My fitter checked my sits bones width and recommended a woman's design saddle that was simply wider. Problem solved and I hardly ever experience discomfort anymore. I wish he would have shared his views on seat width and where the sits bones and pelvis should land.
SQlab... they are masters of ergonomics.
Your videos are a wealth of information. Thanks.
I noticed your comment regarding the Brooks seat, seems odd to locate a Brooks up in the front as when the springs settle under the rider's weight, this will only exacerbate things. I use a B67 seat and set it up as follows; Use a dead flat surface, line the seat's front up level and then move the seat slightly down in the front although still keeping the level's bubble between the lines although at the edge of one line. This compensates for rider's weight to provide a level seat position when tightened and sat on although allows the rear curved portion of the seat to rise up to meet the sit bones.
The switch grade by aeonomoly constructs is a great solution. Brand new saddle tilt system.
Great video. I did a 100 mile ride a few weeks back and some areas of my man section are still a little numb now! I have a selle Italia gel flow but seriously considering a new saddle!
I think it is a personal preference. I like my seat slightly tilted forward so my bottom bones rest on the back cushions of the seat
and the nose of the seat does'nt put much pressure on the pelvic floor.
Perineum pressure disappeared when I switched to Adamo ISM saddles ten years ago. They're now on all my bikes.
I'm loading my hands a lot. Gonna tilt the saddle back a tad.
How did you get on?
Found your channel today for the first time. Liked & sub. Really like your approach. Well done.
Great video. Thank you.
Very useful info, thank you. How about a video explaining butt position on the saddle when riding uphill, downhill and sprinting? Why / how do triathletes and climbers get more power while riding on the rivet (on the nose of the saddle)? I’ve tried it, and my power decreases.
This is some awesome useful information.
great series of vids! Totally agree, the SQlab 612 Ergowave is top!
great info. thanks so much.
Top content Cam.
I can listen to Neil all day!
What would be the preferred position when on a home trainer?
Thanks mate, not sure how to answer that question though. In the hoods for me
Great video!!
I love GCN but finding your videos, vlogs superior in information and I'm learnign stuff from 'The' bike fitter Neil, keep it going Cam, great content.
Good stuff Dave, thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks and brilliant video
Great video as always! Neill is that cool uncle everybody wants to talk to during Christmas dinner! What do you or Neill think of Ergon saddles? They did wonders for me!
Haha! I’m not sure mate, I’ve never heard of these saddles. Hopefully Neill will see the question and respond.
This is really helpful stuff....thanks.
I tilted my seat up, and quite amazingly my hamstrings started engaging. A ride that would normally annihilate me feels easy now. Everyone is different.
Also absolutely love the series. Learnt a ton.
Once again another informative video. Interesting to see him briefly mention the Brooks saddles as a few of the guys here ride them as they’re keen Audax riders.
A quick question: how do you find the right saddle without buying heaps of wrong ones first?
Awesome question! I have no idea. Good one for Neill, maybe even a video about it.
Long story short: most comfortable is the best position, thank you for this information in 15Minutes
ISM saddles have a wide slot and open nose that avoids the problem of pressure on the perineum. Some people think ISM saddles look weird. SMP saddles, which also has a wide slot, avoids the weird appearence by simply sloping the nose down and away from the crotch before closing the nose. Don't let the downward sloping nose confuse you. As a starting point, the middle of ISM saddle should be level. IN MY OPINION!!! (I've used both.)
For sure, the saddle on bike behind Neil wants to come nose down by 1.65 degrees.
1.65 is a crazy accurate number for a bike in the background of the video 😂
The SQlab 612R is only required for persons with max 90 Kg. The plastic clamp broke after 4 months in use.