NOTE: Masami Kurumada, the creator of Saint Seiya, also says himself in his book "Saint Seiya Encyclopedia" that Transformers The Movie's budget and techniques helped to create the Saint Seiya anime. Correction: Toei's Frankenstein from 1984 is the REAL second anime film based on a Marvel comic, that being Monster of Frankenstein. So Transformers The Movie is the third film from the two companies.
It's always blown me away how they had the talents of Orsen Welles and Leonard Nimoy for the English voice cast. It's also credited as the last work Orsen Welles did before his passing. So iconic... that voice... 'It is I, Unicron'... So eerie!!!!
9:33 Speaking of homages, one was made to this movie (predictably, given the staff such as Morishita & Yamauchi) by Dragon Ball Z’s own 6th theatrical feature, where the Big Gete Star is effectively a Unicron stand-in.
Your research is amazing. I thought I knew everything about Transformers the movie but the Japanese animation lineage is an angle I never knew much about.
Weirdest thing. When I first saw Saint Seiya's intro, particularly that part where the ground is breaking apart and those purple flames rise up, Transformers The Movie was the first thing that came to my mind. Looks like I was onto something. Anyway, excellent video.👌🏾
I grew up watching Saint Seiya from Mexican studios like TV Azteca in the early 90s. It was shown in Latin America as Caballeros Del Zodiaco (Knights of The Zodiac). And yes with all the blood and gore intact. Along with Sailor Moon, Captain Tsubasa and Magic Knight Rayearth. I still have a VHS copy of when all 4 Saint Seiya films were broadcasted together for the first time on a Saturday. The details in the "chrome armor" was the eye candy of the show. Also, Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory were dubbed and shown in Latin countries as well in the 90s. I got to watch those but confused how it was "cannon". That was shown on a rival station in Mexico, I believe it was Canal 5, who broadcasted Dragon Ball, Ranma 1/2 and even Beast Wars aka Guerras de Bestia: Transformers xD
Gundam and Transformers had very different demographic targets, one was for teen/young adults, the other for kids, and the respective merchandise followed suit. There wasn't much competition between the two franchises.
This. The main takeaway was that Takara managed to overtake Bandai in diecast robots for a period of time. Bandai eventually responded to Transformers with Machine Robo's reinventing. Plastic models became the merchandising push behind Gundam while Takara's toys targeted the demographic that played with Bandai's Chogokin.
But then as time came by and their fanbase got older, both franchises had their target demographics overlapped. Nowadays, only truly passionate robot fans, whether it be kids, adults, or in-betweens, who happen to have quite a number of money, could ever enjoy Gunplas, Transformers toys, etc. Others went onto their phones, games, etc.
@@alfianfahmi5430 still two different beasts. Even though some transformers media have tried to be a bit more mature to cater to their aged audience. IMO franchise should try to grow up along with their fans. And having a series in wich Optimus has had to make some questionable choice in his war against the Decepticons, and Megatron isn't just evil for the sake of being evil, is more than welcome.
@@arx3516 Yeah, bringing out war politics (I have to emphasize the war aspect of the politics to distinguish it from identity politics 😂🤣) is a good addition for Transformers series. Just imagine Decepticons having a bond with some rag-tag criminals who had their own misfortune, Autobots having some sort of dilemma fighting some villains, and some few Autobots-Decepticons tag-team to solve some issues that troubled both sides along with humans, like failed experiments, some PMCs teaming up with some Cybertronians trying to do some coup, some unintended alien attacks like Unicron soldiers, etc.
@@alfianfahmi5430 yeah, it still won't be Gundam, but at least it should try to be something like Voltes V or Daimos. Where you have a clear divide between good and bad guys, but there are nuances and understandable motivations.
As a long time TF fan, thanks for making this! I learned a lot. I don't know if you know or not, but it's always been pretty fuzzy as to why the movie wasn't released in Japan until 1989. This apparently created a lot of confusion for fans and production crews alike. Have you heard any solid reasoning for that? Thank you again!
I don't know personally. It was intended to release in 1987, but didn't. If I had to guess, maybe music licensing was difficult? It's still a total mystery.
Seeing Hotrod becoming Rodimus Prime was the best part for me! It lasted so long because of the shock value! I liked it for that, a civil war between Cybertronians was amazing!
Absolutely loving the channel and content man! The amount of research and history you put into these recents vids is amazing! Always loved Saint Seiya, Gundam, and especially Transformers as kid and seeing how each influenced or indirectly influenced each other is really interesting. Great work dude! Hope to see more videos like this in the future!
I always loved Satoshi Urushihara's art. The first time I encountered his works was actually Langrisser. And then later I discovered his erm, other works.
Both series had a massive success in Brazil. Even more interesting is that Saint Seiya, like Transformers, sold so many toys, there are so many clotho armor variations to rival Transformers.
@@tigerfang2099If you mean the Myth Cloth figures, yes. Nice figures but boy are they expensive. So far I only have Aries Mu and Equuleus Shoko. I'd like to get Athena next.
The problem with Tomino is that his dramatic statements are often at odds with the production history of his anime. Z-Gundam had a long production history with the first draft of the titular mecha as a transforming mobile suit in the late 1984 created by Kazumi Fujita. It was influenced by an even early attempt suggested by studio Nue and sketched by Katsushi Murakami, which was a mobile suit crossed with an atmospheric re entry capsule on the style of their Starship Troopers book illustrations. Overall the use of transformation in a realistic setting is more the result of Macross influence and it's used in the same vein, with Z transformable mobile suits "folding" in mobile armor shapes instead of the more dramatic style used in Transformers which was also produced practically at the same time. If anything the connection is in the Studio Nue itself with people attatched to the studio being instrumental in toys (see Kawamori's contribution to Takara's Diaclone) and mecha anime in general. Speaking of toys it's unsurprising that Trasnformers sold more than Z. Aside from the different target the real bread and butter of Gundam were already model kits with a rather anemic toy offering, something that still continues to this day. On that matter it would be interesting to analyze the competition between Bandai's Machine Robot and Transformers which is endemic of the bitter Takara-Bandai rivalry which extended to anime with the creation of the Revenge of Chronos series. It's also a compelling story about being content of what you have, with Bandai selling more at a an impulse buy lower price point, only to crash and burn when they tried to compete in the same segment as Transformers with the Machine Robot Battle Hackers toyline and anime series.
His quote isn't at odds with anything in Zeta, he's just stating what influenced his directing style. The decision to make a transforming mobile suit was of course made before Transformers was a thing, and the actual design was made in the wake of Macross, but he's referring to how Transformers showed transformation in a way that's instantaneous in the actual animation itself rather than using a drawn out piece of stock footage (which is what he was referring to by transformations being too complex) It's his show, so I take his word for it when it comes to how it was directed and what his influences were.
@@IronMysterian Again this was accomplished by Macross way before the Transformers series with the Valkyries instant transformations even when directly engaged in battle. Yes, it's his series, but that comment seems to use a Transformers reference more to be dramatic and for general comprehension because Transformers is more ingrained in the popular culture despite all Macross influence and popularity.
@@Bt3615The Tomino quote is taken from a 1985 interview, when Zeta first came out and Transformers still hadn't come out yet in Japan. Transformers was only less than a year old. Macross did do it first, but you can take that up with Tomino.
@@IronMysterian I'd honestly love to see the history behind the Takara-Bandai rivalry of the Transformers v Machine Robo and maybe I can see the deal behind Battlehackers' failings. All of this sounds very intriguing to me.
When I went to Japan 20 years ago, most adults and kids in Japan didn't know about Transformers. When I showed various Japanese people pictures of Optimus Prime (or "Convoy" in Japan), most people said it was a "Gundam". At the time, Transformers were really only available in specialist toy shops,hobby shops (and by extension, electronics shops like "Yamada Denki", etc) and Toys R Us Japan. Takara TFs would occasionally come back with different releases, like "Micron densetsu" (Armada) and the Bayverse toys and these would then be sold in mainstream toy aisles in department stores like "Ito Yokado", etc. However, back then and even now, TFs have been mainly for adult collectors or older kids (both shrinking markets in Japan), while Bandai's "Sentai Ranger" (and it's many spin-offs and iterations) have reigned supreme in Japan. The Bayverse did help raise the profile of TFs in Japan, so many younger Japanese these days recognise the term "Optimus Prime" more so than "Convoy" as perhaps the more "mainstream" term (plus the term "Transformer/s") but even Takara Tomy sell different transforming/combining robot toys to Japanese kids (such as the ones based on/linked to their Tomicar and Plarail franchises), whilst raising the prices and narrowing the scope of their domestic TF releases to old Japanese males (nostalgic for the G1 cartoons).
Fantastic work! I can remember sitting in the theater, watching TFTM in 1986 when I was 10! So cool to learn about the people and studios behind the scenes.
Awesome video with lots of cool info. I am in love with Urushihara, thanks for talking about him. Wish I knew more about his contributions to Transformers
hearing about the eastern talent brought on just proves more how little was held back for this literal commercial, it feels so paradoxical to what would be expected. Absolutely GOATED movie.
Good vid. As a fellow classic mecha fan (Getter Robo banner, based), it's nice to finally see somebody talking about transformers through this kind of lens. Sorely underrepresented and undiscussed part of the series for being a Japanese franchise.
I find the Zanbot 3 info highly questionable. I was born in the Philippines in the early 70s, and Zanbot 3 never aired here. If Floro Dery was inspired by Zanbot 3, he must have seen it somewhere else, because I know every super robot anime that aired here during 70s and 80s.
He would have seen it in the US, perhaps through japanese imported tapes. 70s was the time a lot of veteran Filipino comicbook artists were working for Marvel that time in the US and they eventually joined the animation team for the movie.
I questioned it too, so I just said allegedly. The original claim about this came from a forum poster who said they were Dery's assistant. I know several super robot shows are popular in the Phillipines and have a strong following since the 70s and 80s. It's interesting Zambot 3 wasn't one of them even if Dery really based Hot Rod on Zambo Ace.
When I saw the still title image for this video I was wondering how on earth could Transformers be related to Saint Seiya aside from being a joint venture production between US and Japan... Right until I saw those side by side comparison between some of the scenes in the movie with other Japanese animation then it hit me with an "OMG" moment 😮. Very impressive and indepth explanation on the subject I might add. Looking forward to more of this type of video analysis 👍🏻.
DOPE video! I consider myself a TF history buff and I learned MAD stuff I'd never even HEARD OF before. It's ironic how Transformers' success directly led to its own downfall in a way.
At least, in the USA. In the late 80s it began to decline in Japan despite being one of two mecha series airing on TV in 88 and 89 (the others being Mashin Hero Wataru in 88 and Granzort in 89, both sponsored by Takara).
Been avoiding this video in my recommended's for a while, because the thumbnail and title just made me think this (and your previous video, with the "WTF Japan?!?" and red arrow+circle) was just gonna be some cheap under-researched clickbait working off assumptions and leaps in logic, but I'm really glad I gave your vids a chance - you proved me REALLY wrong, and even as someone who's a bit of a nerd for anime and Transformers in specific, this entire video was filled to the brim with bucketloads of information I had no idea about, all with a very nice presentation. Would love to see more from you! ...just, maybe rethink the way you design your thumbnails and video titles, perhaps XP
@@IronMysterian Oh no I get needing to have eye-catching thumbnails and all, just yeah I dunno, I think it's still possible for them to be tasteful despite that. It's a balance. Makes it hard if I wanna share your vids with my friends, needing to type paragraphs bout "ok yeah the thumbnails are lame but the video itself's cool i swear!!", y'noe? Lol.
@@IronMysterian I wasn't in on the jooooke D'X (In fairness, you'd be shocked just how many ppl still act like nerds from 2004. "Them wacky Japanese" is still a v prevalent attitude in lots of circles...)
And yet in the US the movie was a box office flop. I was 12 when the movie came out, my mom took myself, and my two cousins to see it opening weekend. The theater had like 10 people (4 of which were us). Even for a matinee you'd expect more. Sadly the whiner parent generation said "it's too violent" and of course the infamous kid that locked himself in his room for a week over Prime's death. I was blown away by the production, the story arc and just everything about it. As I said in your other video I was obsessed with The Trans Formers. To this day I will watch the movie and I still enjoy it. The Japan crew that were part of the TV series and movie are in my book legends!
It's funny how mecha transformation evolved with time, they went from the organic transformation of Getter Robo, wich was impossible to translate into toys, to the more feasible ones of Combattler V, Daimos, God Sigma etc. And tgen to the feasible but complex one of Transformers.
I wonder what would have been if Hasbro and Toei used the surplus funds of Transformers the Movie into season 4 of Transformers? Could another season animated by Toei kept the franchise going? Some can say it probably wouldn't have mattered as the toyline was already in its decline.
This movie the first time I saw it had me hooked to this day it's a huge influence . I have this movie in every media it ever came out in including laserdisc (English and Japanese version) and 70 mm Kodak film print and I don't even have a projector. The animation was killer as well as that hairband soundtrack ..
I discovered Saint Seiya overseas in the early 90’s. I couldn’t believe how freakin violent it was. Animation was very reminiscent of TF The Movie, but the story got kinda lame. You get beat up, find your inner strength, suffer, overcome the challenges, suffer some more, but always find a way to win. I mean, it’s like watching an 80’s Hulk Hogan wrestling match. You know what’s going to happen. The 1st 2 seasons of TF and the Movie were great.
Saint Seiya is supposed to be the replacement for the Transformers but now kids in today's modern era will never replace their minds today. Transformers are history
twitter.com/mariwwo/status/1147504239544942592?t=s822k2r3Q-arAwx4Rw3-nA&s=19 Macross inspired the Zeta itself. Transformers inspired how it changed in real time because someone showed Tomino a tape of the US broadcast.
True points, but only in the sense that almost ALL anime before that movie, and after, follow the same basic pattern. If you look at most Japanese stories, whether in movies, books, manga, or series shows, you can count on these elements, or something like it: 1) Good guys have a fragile peace, led by a wise and venerable leader and/or trainer. 2) Good guys have among their numbers an under-appreciated, but good-hearted underdog who's always messing up and causing trouble but who means really, really well. 3) Bad guys make a sudden appearance that threatens everything, usually involving an apocalyptic 'McGuffin' of some kind. 4) The wise/venerable leader/trainer gets killed (everyone mourns). 5) Struggles ensue, the bad guys are about to win, everything looks hopeless. 6) The underappreciated underdog rises up, claims or becomes imbued with 'the spirit' of the departed beloved leader, defeats the bad guys against all odds, ends the threat, and become the new leader. 7) Everyone who dissed the underdog before is now suddenly fawning and slobbering all over him. It wasn't a 'new' storytelling formula at the time the 86 Transformers movie came out. So it can't really be said that its use in the TF movie laid the 'groundwork' for it being used in any movies or stories which came after. This isn't to say Western storytelling is any less predictable and formulaic (because it IS). But I didn't see anything in this movie that was necessarily groundbreaking, innovative or heretofore unknown in the world of japanimation storytelling. If you go look at most movies/series which preceded the 86 TF movie, even Voltron, Star Blazers and Robotech, you will see the same elements.
I wasn't saying it was groundbreaking in terms of storytelling, I said it was groundbreaking for introducing characters and lore to Transformers that are still being used :P
this was 1 of very few movies i saw in theater back in the day and for all that i loved it then and still do iv always felt a strange disappointment with the death of unicron. the great Orson Wells portrayed the beast and for all but the final moments was truly inspiring. the last wheezing gasp of defeat felt wrong. still does but it wasnt until a decade or so back i found out why and that made the wrongness worse but more understandable and sad. the presence wells gave the character cant be understated and few contemporaries can match it but he was unable to give the fitting voice ending for unicron because his health made such a demandingly vigorous activity impossible. all we are left with performance-wise is the last warbled cries of an actor dedicated to the craft to the end, willing to try but unable to rise to the task. i do hope that someday soon using voice samples from his works someone can remaster that 1 moment with a vocaloid or the like to give it the weight and veracity he would have insisted on had his health allowed
Don't remember Zambot 3 airing in the Philippines. Voltes V and Daimos and to a lesser extent, Mazinger Z was aired in the 70s with Voltes V still famous here followed by Daimos in the Philippines.
@IronMysterian I have always liked Transformers and more recently Mega Man. Were there any mecha that inspired Mega Man? I can't find anything about this online. I noticed that the charachter Sniper Joe looks Like a Zaku from Mobile Suit Gundam and Protoman looks like Char's Gelgoog from Mobile Suit Gundam.
It still has a lot of nice animation, Shingo Araki makes fantastic drawings. The earlier parts of the show are the best, but the bar for shonen adaptations wasn't very high. Think Fist of the North Star levels of inconsistency.
They still worked on it for its second and even in the third season where they were less involved. Takara worked with them to continue the continuity with Headmasters after Season 3.
A bigger budget doesn't mean mistakes don't happen, it's just a byproduct of old cel animation. For some reason TFWiki got it in peoples' heads that errors only happen in their franchise, and the fact Rhino's release of the TV show used unfinished work prints only made it worse.
WHERE IS THAT ULTRA MAGNUS ANIMATION FROM ??!!! Is that the Japanese release of the movie? I've never seen that clip anywhere, of Ultra Magnus in his original, Takara red color scheme. Has anyone else? Is there more?
It's from the Transformers Movie Promo film, and the earliest trailers. Nowadays that scheme is referred to as Delta Magnus and new Ultra Magnus toys often get repainted in those colors.
@@IronMysterian Well, by technicality; might be getting my facts mixed up, but iirc the OVA had a ton of details that were very incongruous with the show+movie at the time, and was considered noncanon even for JG1 - it was only until a recent manga (I think Legends?) that they managed to squeeze the OVA into canon, via some technicality/retcon. JG1 is full of this sorta stuff anywho, the "canon" is more for hardcore fans to be nerds about and not really for passive viewers to squint too hard at. That's not to undermine the importance of it, though, I adore tons of media from the JG1 continuity lol. Really lifts up the original show too, what with all of it replacing that wimpy "Season 4" 3-parter finale we got, lmao.
Through Hasbro, outsourced to Toei. Some of Toei's animators were the same between TFTM and GI Joe, on top of Shingo Araki and Koichi Arai being credited for key animation too.
Isn't it funny? Transformers has been around for almost 40 years (the franchise turns 40 years old in 2024). It's not exceptionally popular, though it has plenty of fans across the different generations that love and actively support the franchise, allowing it to keep its head up despite the dwindling numbers. Thanks to these fans, there are many high-quality Transformers shows, movies, toys and games. However, throughout the 40 years, Transformers helped inspire the creation of other franchises, most of which have reached a wider audience and higher levels of success than Transformers, ironically. The most notable example is the Marvel Cinematic Universe, starting with Iron Man in 2008 (not the Hulk), which was clearly inspired by the Transformers movie that came before in 2007. My only hope is the Transformers continue on its niche but successful trend for future Generations to discover and love the shows and movies like we currently do.
🇺🇸 American: How much money do we need to make a badass anime movie? 🤔 💭🤖 Japanese: Probably 5 million. (Yen) 💴 American: hm..that sounds right. 5 million dollars it is. 💵 Japanese: uh, well actually.. ya know what you got it, sir. 🫡
NOTE: Masami Kurumada, the creator of Saint Seiya, also says himself in his book "Saint Seiya Encyclopedia" that Transformers The Movie's budget and techniques helped to create the Saint Seiya anime.
Correction: Toei's Frankenstein from 1984 is the REAL second anime film based on a Marvel comic, that being Monster of Frankenstein. So Transformers The Movie is the third film from the two companies.
When you think about it, Transformers the Movie feels *less* like a cartoon movie, and *more* of an anime film!!!
It's always blown me away how they had the talents of Orsen Welles and Leonard Nimoy for the English voice cast. It's also credited as the last work Orsen Welles did before his passing. So iconic... that voice... 'It is I, Unicron'... So eerie!!!!
3:40 Apparently Shin also helped animate the lightsabers in the first Star Wars movie.
Thanks for posting something completely new for a Saint Seiya and Transformers fan. I can't believe it's the first time I hear this story.
TF the movie had an impact on many well regarded anime directors and animators along with contributing to Toei's shift to Saint Seiya
Dragonball debut 1984 there no inspiration between them two
@@tonyslicer7399 Grimlock is that you? 😐
9:33 Speaking of homages, one was made to this movie (predictably, given the staff such as Morishita & Yamauchi) by Dragon Ball Z’s own 6th theatrical feature, where the Big Gete Star is effectively a Unicron stand-in.
@@マジンガーZ-u7t I certainly don't doubt that its true!
Your research is amazing. I thought I knew everything about Transformers the movie but the Japanese animation lineage is an angle I never knew much about.
Weirdest thing. When I first saw Saint Seiya's intro, particularly that part where the ground is breaking apart and those purple flames rise up, Transformers The Movie was the first thing that came to my mind. Looks like I was onto something.
Anyway, excellent video.👌🏾
I grew up watching Saint Seiya from Mexican studios like TV Azteca in the early 90s. It was shown in Latin America as Caballeros Del Zodiaco (Knights of The Zodiac). And yes with all the blood and gore intact. Along with Sailor Moon, Captain Tsubasa and Magic Knight Rayearth. I still have a VHS copy of when all 4 Saint Seiya films were broadcasted together for the first time on a Saturday. The details in the "chrome armor" was the eye candy of the show.
Also, Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory were dubbed and shown in Latin countries as well in the 90s. I got to watch those but confused how it was "cannon". That was shown on a rival station in Mexico, I believe it was Canal 5, who broadcasted Dragon Ball, Ranma 1/2 and even Beast Wars aka Guerras de Bestia: Transformers xD
Chris McFeely brought me here and I'm pleased he did as I found this so absorbing. Thank you for putting this together.
I'm grateful to Chris!!
Gundam and Transformers had very different demographic targets, one was for teen/young adults, the other for kids, and the respective merchandise followed suit. There wasn't much competition between the two franchises.
This. The main takeaway was that Takara managed to overtake Bandai in diecast robots for a period of time. Bandai eventually responded to Transformers with Machine Robo's reinventing. Plastic models became the merchandising push behind Gundam while Takara's toys targeted the demographic that played with Bandai's Chogokin.
But then as time came by and their fanbase got older, both franchises had their target demographics overlapped. Nowadays, only truly passionate robot fans, whether it be kids, adults, or in-betweens, who happen to have quite a number of money, could ever enjoy Gunplas, Transformers toys, etc. Others went onto their phones, games, etc.
@@alfianfahmi5430 still two different beasts. Even though some transformers media have tried to be a bit more mature to cater to their aged audience. IMO franchise should try to grow up along with their fans. And having a series in wich Optimus has had to make some questionable choice in his war against the Decepticons, and Megatron isn't just evil for the sake of being evil, is more than welcome.
@@arx3516 Yeah, bringing out war politics (I have to emphasize the war aspect of the politics to distinguish it from identity politics 😂🤣) is a good addition for Transformers series. Just imagine Decepticons having a bond with some rag-tag criminals who had their own misfortune, Autobots having some sort of dilemma fighting some villains, and some few Autobots-Decepticons tag-team to solve some issues that troubled both sides along with humans, like failed experiments, some PMCs teaming up with some Cybertronians trying to do some coup, some unintended alien attacks like Unicron soldiers, etc.
@@alfianfahmi5430 yeah, it still won't be Gundam, but at least it should try to be something like Voltes V or Daimos. Where you have a clear divide between good and bad guys, but there are nuances and understandable motivations.
As a long time TF fan, thanks for making this! I learned a lot. I don't know if you know or not, but it's always been pretty fuzzy as to why the movie wasn't released in Japan until 1989. This apparently created a lot of confusion for fans and production crews alike. Have you heard any solid reasoning for that? Thank you again!
I don't know personally. It was intended to release in 1987, but didn't. If I had to guess, maybe music licensing was difficult? It's still a total mystery.
Great video and research. As one thats born in the 70´s (and becoming an "otaku" in the mid 80´s) this is rewarding to watch.
Seeing Hotrod becoming Rodimus Prime was the best part for me! It lasted so long because of the shock value! I liked it for that, a civil war between Cybertronians was amazing!
Absolutely loving the channel and content man! The amount of research and history you put into these recents vids is amazing! Always loved Saint Seiya, Gundam, and especially Transformers as kid and seeing how each influenced or indirectly influenced each other is really interesting. Great work dude! Hope to see more videos like this in the future!
Epic video! It deserves to be a feature on the dvd/bluray. Very cool work.
Wow, thanks!
I like the way you say billions, very Sagan-esque. Thanks for this video, great dive into tons of stuff and gave me some fun trivia!
Throwing huge chunks of money at animators leads to better animation? Huh. Could have left some for the writers imo. Movies still kicks ass though.
This was really well done. I wasnt really planning on watching the whole thing but you kept me engaged the whole way.
I always loved Satoshi Urushihara's art. The first time I encountered his works was actually Langrisser. And then later I discovered his erm, other works.
Haha, when I first realized those commercials were his I thought "holy crap these colors feel like Plastic Little!" lol
@@IronMysterian And Front Innocent/ Another Lady Innocent.
Google it :D
In Japan, It is said that mobilized all the animators who can draw the Robot which is in Japan at the time.
Both series had a massive success in Brazil. Even more interesting is that Saint Seiya, like Transformers, sold so many toys, there are so many clotho armor variations to rival Transformers.
This is the best deep dive into the history of the TF's Movie that I've ever heard...great work 👍👍
As a lifelong Transformers fan who just discovered Saint Seiya this year and loving it, this was very fascinating. Great video!
Now that you love Saint Seiya have you seen that Bandai has made almost the majority of all the characters from the anime
@@tigerfang2099If you mean the Myth Cloth figures, yes. Nice figures but boy are they expensive. So far I only have Aries Mu and Equuleus Shoko. I'd like to get Athena next.
@@FairladyZ2005 Yes the Myth Cloth, Athena is coming out next year but it is expensive.
The problem with Tomino is that his dramatic statements are often at odds with the production history of his anime. Z-Gundam had a long production history with the first draft of the titular mecha as a transforming mobile suit in the late 1984 created by Kazumi Fujita. It was influenced by an even early attempt suggested by studio Nue and sketched by Katsushi Murakami, which was a mobile suit crossed with an atmospheric re entry capsule on the style of their Starship Troopers book illustrations. Overall the use of transformation in a realistic setting is more the result of Macross influence and it's used in the same vein, with Z transformable mobile suits "folding" in mobile armor shapes instead of the more dramatic style used in Transformers which was also produced practically at the same time. If anything the connection is in the Studio Nue itself with people attatched to the studio being instrumental in toys (see Kawamori's contribution to Takara's Diaclone) and mecha anime in general. Speaking of toys it's unsurprising that Trasnformers sold more than Z. Aside from the different target the real bread and butter of Gundam were already model kits with a rather anemic toy offering, something that still continues to this day. On that matter it would be interesting to analyze the competition between Bandai's Machine Robot and Transformers which is endemic of the bitter Takara-Bandai rivalry which extended to anime with the creation of the Revenge of Chronos series. It's also a compelling story about being content of what you have, with Bandai selling more at a an impulse buy lower price point, only to crash and burn when they tried to compete in the same segment as Transformers with the Machine Robot Battle Hackers toyline and anime series.
His quote isn't at odds with anything in Zeta, he's just stating what influenced his directing style. The decision to make a transforming mobile suit was of course made before Transformers was a thing, and the actual design was made in the wake of Macross, but he's referring to how Transformers showed transformation in a way that's instantaneous in the actual animation itself rather than using a drawn out piece of stock footage (which is what he was referring to by transformations being too complex) It's his show, so I take his word for it when it comes to how it was directed and what his influences were.
@@IronMysterian Again this was accomplished by Macross way before the Transformers series with the Valkyries instant transformations even when directly engaged in battle. Yes, it's his series, but that comment seems to use a Transformers reference more to be dramatic and for general comprehension because Transformers is more ingrained in the popular culture despite all Macross influence and popularity.
@@Bt3615The Tomino quote is taken from a 1985 interview, when Zeta first came out and Transformers still hadn't come out yet in Japan. Transformers was only less than a year old.
Macross did do it first, but you can take that up with Tomino.
@@IronMysterian I'd honestly love to see the history behind the Takara-Bandai rivalry of the Transformers v Machine Robo and maybe I can see the deal behind Battlehackers' failings. All of this sounds very intriguing to me.
@@ZZtheDarkIt's being considered!
When I went to Japan 20 years ago, most adults and kids in Japan didn't know about Transformers. When I showed various Japanese people pictures of Optimus Prime (or "Convoy" in Japan), most people said it was a "Gundam".
At the time, Transformers were really only available in specialist toy shops,hobby shops (and by extension, electronics shops like "Yamada Denki", etc) and Toys R Us Japan.
Takara TFs would occasionally come back with different releases, like "Micron densetsu" (Armada) and the Bayverse toys and these would then be sold in mainstream toy aisles in department stores like "Ito Yokado", etc. However, back then and even now, TFs have been mainly for adult collectors or older kids (both shrinking markets in Japan), while Bandai's "Sentai Ranger" (and it's many spin-offs and iterations) have reigned supreme in Japan.
The Bayverse did help raise the profile of TFs in Japan, so many younger Japanese these days recognise the term "Optimus Prime" more so than "Convoy" as perhaps the more "mainstream" term (plus the term "Transformer/s") but even Takara Tomy sell different transforming/combining robot toys to Japanese kids (such as the ones based on/linked to their Tomicar and Plarail franchises), whilst raising the prices and narrowing the scope of their domestic TF releases to old Japanese males (nostalgic for the G1 cartoons).
Fantastic work! I can remember sitting in the theater, watching TFTM in 1986 when I was 10! So cool to learn about the people and studios behind the scenes.
It's a fantastic work
This is an amazing video, this is the kind of information I want to know!
YOU GOT THE TOUCH ...YOU GOT THE FEELING
Awesome video with lots of cool info. I am in love with Urushihara, thanks for talking about him. Wish I knew more about his contributions to Transformers
Wow! Great video! So much information I never knew before!
Glad you enjoyed!
hearing about the eastern talent brought on just proves more how little was held back for this literal commercial, it feels so paradoxical to what would be expected.
Absolutely GOATED movie.
Good vid. As a fellow classic mecha fan (Getter Robo banner, based), it's nice to finally see somebody talking about transformers through this kind of lens. Sorely underrepresented and undiscussed part of the series for being a Japanese franchise.
Thank you!!
Great video! As a big anime fan and Transformers fan this was great! To think that even Urushihara-sensei was involved in it! Fantastic deep dive!
Transformers and Saint Seiya deserve to have a movie crossover of their own, it would be the greatest anime event ever
This was really interesting! Thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very well done video, showing great research. Im excited to see where the channel goes, if this is the quality of the earliest videos.
Thank you!
Amazing - theres always more to learn about TFTM!
I find the Zanbot 3 info highly questionable. I was born in the Philippines in the early 70s, and Zanbot 3 never aired here. If Floro Dery was inspired by Zanbot 3, he must have seen it somewhere else, because I know every super robot anime that aired here during 70s and 80s.
Agree with his assessment…Zambot 3 isn’t that well known in my country (compared to Voltes V and even Daimos)
He would have seen it in the US, perhaps through japanese imported tapes. 70s was the time a lot of veteran Filipino comicbook artists were working for Marvel that time in the US and they eventually joined the animation team for the movie.
I questioned it too, so I just said allegedly. The original claim about this came from a forum poster who said they were Dery's assistant. I know several super robot shows are popular in the Phillipines and have a strong following since the 70s and 80s. It's interesting Zambot 3 wasn't one of them even if Dery really based Hot Rod on Zambo Ace.
When I saw the still title image for this video I was wondering how on earth could Transformers be related to Saint Seiya aside from being a joint venture production between US and Japan... Right until I saw those side by side comparison between some of the scenes in the movie with other Japanese animation then it hit me with an "OMG" moment 😮. Very impressive and indepth explanation on the subject I might add. Looking forward to more of this type of video analysis 👍🏻.
Yes, the Prince of the Sun lept out at me after it was pointed out to me. It's another Toei film too!
great and underrated channel
DOPE video! I consider myself a TF history buff and I learned MAD stuff I'd never even HEARD OF before. It's ironic how Transformers' success directly led to its own downfall in a way.
At least, in the USA. In the late 80s it began to decline in Japan despite being one of two mecha series airing on TV in 88 and 89 (the others being Mashin Hero Wataru in 88 and Granzort in 89, both sponsored by Takara).
wow you blew my mind w the fact that satoshi urushihara worked on the movie! i'm a huge fan of his work had no idea!
Great watch. Hope to see you cover the relation between the brave series and transformers in one of your future videos.
That's the plan!
Been avoiding this video in my recommended's for a while, because the thumbnail and title just made me think this (and your previous video, with the "WTF Japan?!?" and red arrow+circle) was just gonna be some cheap under-researched clickbait working off assumptions and leaps in logic, but I'm really glad I gave your vids a chance - you proved me REALLY wrong, and even as someone who's a bit of a nerd for anime and Transformers in specific, this entire video was filled to the brim with bucketloads of information I had no idea about, all with a very nice presentation. Would love to see more from you! ...just, maybe rethink the way you design your thumbnails and video titles, perhaps XP
Thank you! If I had no ironic clickbait thumbnails id never break into that algorithm :P WTF Japan is the classic Demolition D meme
@@IronMysterian Oh no I get needing to have eye-catching thumbnails and all, just yeah I dunno, I think it's still possible for them to be tasteful despite that. It's a balance.
Makes it hard if I wanna share your vids with my friends, needing to type paragraphs bout "ok yeah the thumbnails are lame but the video itself's cool i swear!!", y'noe? Lol.
@@fanb1536 ITS IRONY AND FUNNY TO ME DAMMIT
@@IronMysterian I wasn't in on the jooooke D'X
(In fairness, you'd be shocked just how many ppl still act like nerds from 2004. "Them wacky Japanese" is still a v prevalent attitude in lots of circles...)
Meanwhile, Saint Seiya never got to take off in the US…
And yet in the US the movie was a box office flop. I was 12 when the movie came out, my mom took myself, and my two cousins to see it opening weekend. The theater had like 10 people (4 of which were us). Even for a matinee you'd expect more. Sadly the whiner parent generation said "it's too violent" and of course the infamous kid that locked himself in his room for a week over Prime's death. I was blown away by the production, the story arc and just everything about it. As I said in your other video I was obsessed with The Trans Formers. To this day I will watch the movie and I still enjoy it. The Japan crew that were part of the TV series and movie are in my book legends!
It's funny how mecha transformation evolved with time, they went from the organic transformation of Getter Robo, wich was impossible to translate into toys, to the more feasible ones of Combattler V, Daimos, God Sigma etc. And tgen to the feasible but complex one of Transformers.
I wonder what would have been if Hasbro and Toei used the surplus funds of Transformers the Movie into season 4 of Transformers? Could another season animated by Toei kept the franchise going? Some can say it probably wouldn't have mattered as the toyline was already in its decline.
Well, we technically did get more seasons from Toei... in Japan only.
I'm happy was didn't get season 4. Because who knows, we might have not gotten victory and/or masterforce. Both are so good imo
This movie the first time I saw it had me hooked to this day it's a huge influence . I have this movie in every media it ever came out in including laserdisc (English and Japanese version) and 70 mm Kodak film print and I don't even have a projector. The animation was killer as well as that hairband soundtrack ..
Very informative! Thanks!
Transformers helped the creation of the Saint Seiya anime? I guess that makes the old Saint Transformers videos canon
What’s your next video idea this channel appears to be recapping Japanese transformers history
I may talk about other shows next time
Great video! Really well done! I learned a lot, even as a long time Transformers fan 😁
Thank you and great stuff on your channel!
I discovered Saint Seiya overseas in the early 90’s. I couldn’t believe how freakin violent it was. Animation was very reminiscent of TF The Movie, but the story got kinda lame. You get beat up, find your inner strength, suffer, overcome the challenges, suffer some more, but always find a way to win. I mean, it’s like watching an 80’s Hulk Hogan wrestling match. You know what’s going to happen. The 1st 2 seasons of TF and the Movie were great.
It’s also generally a gauntlet set up from what I hear past the 12 houses.
Saint Seiya is supposed to be the replacement for the Transformers but now kids in today's modern era will never replace their minds today. Transformers are history
Zambot never aired in the Philippines. Perhaps was the Toei animators who adapted Zambo Ace into Hotrodimus?
Kinfa sad for urushihara tbh
thank you for this video
Holy crap, where did you find all these resources? I haven’t seen so many of these stills and clips before, and the information is just as fresh to me
TFRaw has lots of archival footage from Takara promo VHS tapes from this time to sift through.
01:50 where does that come from? I always thought the Zeta plane mode was inspired by Macross rather than Transformers
twitter.com/mariwwo/status/1147504239544942592?t=s822k2r3Q-arAwx4Rw3-nA&s=19
Macross inspired the Zeta itself. Transformers inspired how it changed in real time because someone showed Tomino a tape of the US broadcast.
True points, but only in the sense that almost ALL anime before that movie, and after, follow the same basic pattern. If you look at most Japanese stories, whether in movies, books, manga, or series shows, you can count on these elements, or something like it:
1) Good guys have a fragile peace, led by a wise and venerable leader and/or trainer.
2) Good guys have among their numbers an under-appreciated, but good-hearted underdog who's always messing up and causing trouble but who means really, really well.
3) Bad guys make a sudden appearance that threatens everything, usually involving an apocalyptic 'McGuffin' of some kind.
4) The wise/venerable leader/trainer gets killed (everyone mourns).
5) Struggles ensue, the bad guys are about to win, everything looks hopeless.
6) The underappreciated underdog rises up, claims or becomes imbued with 'the spirit' of the departed beloved leader, defeats the bad guys against all odds, ends the threat, and become the new leader.
7) Everyone who dissed the underdog before is now suddenly fawning and slobbering all over him.
It wasn't a 'new' storytelling formula at the time the 86 Transformers movie came out. So it can't really be said that its use in the TF movie laid the 'groundwork' for it being used in any movies or stories which came after. This isn't to say Western storytelling is any less predictable and formulaic (because it IS). But I didn't see anything in this movie that was necessarily groundbreaking, innovative or heretofore unknown in the world of japanimation storytelling. If you go look at most movies/series which preceded the 86 TF movie, even Voltron, Star Blazers and Robotech, you will see the same elements.
I wasn't saying it was groundbreaking in terms of storytelling, I said it was groundbreaking for introducing characters and lore to Transformers that are still being used :P
Yea, not sure you took the right message out of this.
Pegasus Ryuuuuuseiiikenn!!!!!
this was 1 of very few movies i saw in theater back in the day and for all that i loved it then and still do iv always felt a strange disappointment with the death of unicron. the great Orson Wells portrayed the beast and for all but the final moments was truly inspiring. the last wheezing gasp of defeat felt wrong. still does but it wasnt until a decade or so back i found out why and that made the wrongness worse but more understandable and sad.
the presence wells gave the character cant be understated and few contemporaries can match it but he was unable to give the fitting voice ending for unicron because his health made such a demandingly vigorous activity impossible. all we are left with performance-wise is the last warbled cries of an actor dedicated to the craft to the end, willing to try but unable to rise to the task.
i do hope that someday soon using voice samples from his works someone can remaster that 1 moment with a vocaloid or the like to give it the weight and veracity he would have insisted on had his health allowed
Don't remember Zambot 3 airing in the Philippines. Voltes V and Daimos and to a lesser extent, Mazinger Z was aired in the 70s with Voltes V still famous here followed by Daimos in the Philippines.
I wasn't sure about that claim, so I just said "allegedly."
@IronMysterian I have always liked Transformers and more recently Mega Man. Were there any mecha that inspired Mega Man? I can't find anything about this online.
I noticed that the charachter Sniper Joe looks Like a Zaku from Mobile Suit Gundam and Protoman looks like Char's Gelgoog from Mobile Suit Gundam.
I'm not sure about the robot masters, but other than Astro Boy, Mega Man is really inspired by Tatsunoko series, mostly Casshern but also Time Bokan.
Cool. Thank you.
There was that anime movie that had the transformers matrix. I can't remember the name of that anime.
AGAIN GREAT JOB
Thank you!
Once again, very informative and entertaining . Thanks for giving the Japanese foundation of the art👍🏾
Can we have some Transformers X Saint Seiya Crossovers toys then please?
Amazing video
crazy to think that the saint seiya anime was like that considering how awful it looks by today's standards
It still has a lot of nice animation, Shingo Araki makes fantastic drawings. The earlier parts of the show are the best, but the bar for shonen adaptations wasn't very high. Think Fist of the North Star levels of inconsistency.
@@IronMysterianEven DBZ was inconsistent a lot of the time.
Now i Like this movie even more, as a brasileiro my childhood diet consists of transformers cartoon and saint seya (cavaleiros do zodiaco) anime
Transformers the movie is so legendary that it help create the God tier anime Saint Seiya.
Not a bad video I hope you come out with more content soon
Toei already made plans to quit the transformers show after the first season.
They still worked on it for its second and even in the third season where they were less involved. Takara worked with them to continue the continuity with Headmasters after Season 3.
@@IronMysterian they prepare/produce the second season. They never worked directly on the cartoon. They outsource to smaller anime studios in Japan.
Good video.
With all that funding they still messed up on some of the animation and snarl is nowhere to be found.
A bigger budget doesn't mean mistakes don't happen, it's just a byproduct of old cel animation. For some reason TFWiki got it in peoples' heads that errors only happen in their franchise, and the fact Rhino's release of the TV show used unfinished work prints only made it worse.
For some reason the script specifies "four Dinobots" in multiple places, so Snarl's absence is the writers' "mistake", not the animators'.
Snarl is in the final cut of the film in two different shots. he's in it, just barely.
WHERE IS THAT ULTRA MAGNUS ANIMATION FROM ??!!! Is that the Japanese release of the movie? I've never seen that clip anywhere, of Ultra Magnus in his original, Takara red color scheme. Has anyone else? Is there more?
It's from the Transformers Movie Promo film, and the earliest trailers. Nowadays that scheme is referred to as Delta Magnus and new Ultra Magnus toys often get repainted in those colors.
All I know is that it inspired the yuusha series
meanwhile Transformers Super God Masterforce is straight up Transformers meets Saint Seiya, lol.
It is basically Transformers meets Toei henshin heroes.
They could have added another 25 minutes to the movie with the unused budget
or put the money into season three's production.
Still the best Transformers film / movie of all time
Really!!
🔥🔥NICEEEE🔥🔥 I’m glad I found your channel I look forward to seeing more of your videos📺 I do Stop Motion 🎬📸🎞️ I hope you enjoy my animation‼️ 13:26
Dude you are good but you need more gogg
On Gogg?
@@IronMysterian on Gogg
While Scramble City was made, it is not canon, just made in Japan. Not even part of the canon of Japanese lore.
It is canon to the JG1 continuity... The other one made of toy commercial footage isn't though.
@@IronMysterian Well, by technicality; might be getting my facts mixed up, but iirc the OVA had a ton of details that were very incongruous with the show+movie at the time, and was considered noncanon even for JG1 - it was only until a recent manga (I think Legends?) that they managed to squeeze the OVA into canon, via some technicality/retcon. JG1 is full of this sorta stuff anywho, the "canon" is more for hardcore fans to be nerds about and not really for passive viewers to squint too hard at. That's not to undermine the importance of it, though, I adore tons of media from the JG1 continuity lol. Really lifts up the original show too, what with all of it replacing that wimpy "Season 4" 3-parter finale we got, lmao.
Evangelion city😢
The toyline came from Japan
Transformers one 2024
And how was G.I.Joe The Movie funded? I think Toei worked on that too.
Through Hasbro, outsourced to Toei. Some of Toei's animators were the same between TFTM and GI Joe, on top of Shingo Araki and Koichi Arai being credited for key animation too.
Henshin!
September 13,2024
Please stop using upscaled footage, it looks Really bad
This video's for commentary purposes, how does that even matter?
Isn't it funny? Transformers has been around for almost 40 years (the franchise turns 40 years old in 2024). It's not exceptionally popular, though it has plenty of fans across the different generations that love and actively support the franchise, allowing it to keep its head up despite the dwindling numbers. Thanks to these fans, there are many high-quality Transformers shows, movies, toys and games. However, throughout the 40 years, Transformers helped inspire the creation of other franchises, most of which have reached a wider audience and higher levels of success than Transformers, ironically. The most notable example is the Marvel Cinematic Universe, starting with Iron Man in 2008 (not the Hulk), which was clearly inspired by the Transformers movie that came before in 2007. My only hope is the Transformers continue on its niche but successful trend for future Generations to discover and love the shows and movies like we currently do.
Second
First
🇺🇸 American: How much money do we need to make a badass anime movie? 🤔 💭🤖
Japanese: Probably 5 million. (Yen) 💴
American: hm..that sounds right. 5 million dollars it is. 💵
Japanese: uh, well actually.. ya know what you got it, sir. 🫡